04/02/2001 01:10 PM House RES
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 2, 2001                                                                                          
                           1:10 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Drew Scalzi, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Hugh Fate, Vice Chair                                                                                            
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Mike Chenault                                                                                                    
Representative Lesil McGuire                                                                                                    
Representative Gary Stevens                                                                                                     
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Beverly Masek, Co-Chair                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 165                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the Kenai River Special Management Area; and                                                                
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 165(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 93                                                                                                               
"An Act establishing the permit fee for the personal use dip net                                                                
fisheries for the Kenai River and the Kasilof River; and                                                                        
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 93(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 216                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the emergency order authority of the                                                                        
commissioner of fish and game and to meetings of the Board of                                                                   
Fisheries."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 13                                                                                              
Relating to the nonresident fee differential for commercial                                                                     
fishing permits and licenses.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCR 13 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 165                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:KENAI RIVER SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA                                                                                 
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)LANCASTER                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/09/01     0516       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/09/01     0516       (H)        RES                                                                                          
03/09/01     0516       (H)        REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                        
03/26/01                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/26/01                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(RES)                                                                                  
04/02/01                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 93                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE:KENAI DIP NET FISHERY PERMIT FEE                                                                                    
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)LANCASTER                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
01/26/01     0171       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
01/26/01     0171       (H)        FSH, RES, FIN                                                                                
03/12/01                (H)        FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/12/01                (H)        Moved CSHB 93(FSH) Out of                                                                    
                                   Committee                                                                                    
                                   MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                  
03/16/01     0624       (H)        FSH RPT CS(FSH) NT 5DP 1DNP                                                                  
                                   1NR                                                                                          
03/16/01     0624       (H)        DP: SCALZI, KAPSNER,                                                                         
                                   KERTTULA, WILSON,                                                                            
03/16/01     0624       (H)        STEVENS; DNP: COGHILL; NR:                                                                   
                                   DYSON                                                                                        
03/16/01     0624       (H)        FN1: (DFG)                                                                                   
03/16/01     0624       (H)        FN2: (DFG)                                                                                   
03/16/01     0624       (H)        REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                        
03/26/01                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/26/01                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(RES)                                                                                  
04/02/01                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 216                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:BD OF FISHERIES MEETINGS/EMERGENCY ORDERS                                                                           
SPONSOR(S): RESOURCES                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/26/01     0730       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
03/26/01     0730       (H)        FSH, RES                                                                                     
03/27/01     0746       (H)        FSH REFERRAL WAIVED                                                                          
03/27/01     0746       (H)        REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                        
04/02/01                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HCR 13                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:NONRES. COMMERCIAL FISHING FEES                                                                                     
SPONSOR(S): RESOURCES                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
04/02/01     0808       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
04/02/01     0808       (H)        RES, FIN                                                                                     
04/02/01                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEN LANCASTER                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 421                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as the sponsor of HB 165 and HB
93.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
JIM STRATTON, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Parks & Outdoor Recreation                                                                                          
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
550 West 7th Avenue, Suite 1380                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99501-3561                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Reviewed the history of Mayor Bagley's                                                                     
concerns regarding HB 165.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN BROOKS, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Administrative Services                                                                                             
Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)                                                                                      
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska  99811-5526                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on HB 93 regarding the                                                                  
handling of revenue.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO, Representative                                                                                                        
Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC)                                                                                                    
PO Box 73902                                                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska  99707-3902                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in opposition to HB 93.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD D. MARTIN, JR.                                                                                                           
PO Box 521                                                                                                                      
Cooper Landing, Alaska  99572                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 93; discussed                                                                
concerns with HB 165.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS GARCIA                                                                                                                    
Cook Inlet Fisherman's Fund (CIFF)                                                                                              
PO Box 203                                                                                                                      
Kenai, Alaska  99611                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 93; testified on                                                                
HB 165 and HB 216.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DREW SPARLIN                                                                                                                    
37020 Cannery Road                                                                                                              
Kenai, Alaska  99611                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 93 and HB 216.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
RED SMITH                                                                                                                       
PO Box 770                                                                                                                      
Cooper Landing, Alaska  99572                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed concerns with HB 165.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DALE BONDURANT                                                                                                                  
31864 Moonshine Drive                                                                                                           
Soldotna, Alaska  99669                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in full support of the addition                                                                  
to KRSMA and the added protection for habitat [as proposed in HB
165]; discussed issues regarding HB 216.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
FRANK RUE, Commissioner                                                                                                         
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska  99802-5526                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 216.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DOUG MECUM, Director                                                                                                            
Division of Commercial Fisheries                                                                                                
Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                               
PO Box 25526                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska  99802-5526                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 216.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
GERRY MERRIGAN                                                                                                                  
Petersburg Vessel Owner's Association (PVOA)                                                                                    
PO Box 232                                                                                                                      
Petersburg, Alaska  99833                                                                                                       
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 216.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
NOEL WOODS                                                                                                                      
PO Box 827                                                                                                                      
Palmer, Alaska  99645                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in opposition to HB 216.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE COVEL                                                                                                                    
PO Box 984                                                                                                                      
Cordova, Alaska  99574-0984                                                                                                     
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified that  HB 216  would clarify  and                                                               
strengthen existing statutes.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BOB MERCHANT, President                                                                                                         
United Cook Inlet Drift Association (UCIDA)                                                                                     
PO Box 398                                                                                                                      
Kenai, Alaska  99611                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 216.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-28, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  DREW   SCALZI  called  the  House   Resources  Standing                                                               
Committee meeting  to order at  1:10 p.m.   Representatives Fate,                                                               
McGuire,  Green, Chenault,  Stevens,  Kerttula,  and Scalzi  were                                                               
present at the call to  order.  Representative Kapsner arrived as                                                               
the meeting was in progress.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HB 165-KENAI RIVER SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be  HOUSE BILL  NO.  165, "An  Act relating  to  the Kenai  River                                                               
Special Management Area; and providing for an effective date."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[There was a motion to adopt  HB 165 for discussion purposes, but                                                               
it  was  already  before the  committee;  in  committee  packets,                                                               
however,  not   yet  adopted,  was   a  new   proposed  committee                                                               
substitute (CS), Version C.]                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0200                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEN  LANCASTER, Alaska State  Legislature, sponsor                                                               
of HB 165,  informed the committee that  technical corrections to                                                               
the  bill  were  made  by  the  department;  he  indicated  those                                                               
corrections are encompassed [in CSHB 165, Version C].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI reminded  committee  members that  at the  prior                                                               
hearing on HB 165 [those amendments were discussed].                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN referred  to  an e-mail  from Dale  Bagley,                                                               
Mayor,  Kenai   Peninsula  Borough,   which  notes   the  mayor's                                                               
opposition  to  HB  165  because  he  believes  there  is  enough                                                               
protected  land.   Representative Green  requested the  sponsor's                                                               
comments on Mr. Bagley's e-mail.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0377                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LANCASTER  characterized the e-mail as  "a general                                                               
negative e-mail  in regard  to the addition  of the  KRSMA [Kenai                                                               
River Special  Management Area] land."   Representative Lancaster                                                               
informed the  committee that  Mr. Bagley  did initiate  a lawsuit                                                               
against the  state and that  issue was  resolved.  He  noted that                                                               
perhaps  [Jim Stratton,  Director,  Division of  Parks &  Outdoor                                                               
Recreation, Department of Natural  Resources] could speak to that                                                               
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI  remarked that  there is quite  a bit  of history                                                               
with the issue  [brought forth by Mayor Bagley].   He agreed with                                                               
Representative Lancaster that the issue had been resolved.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA relayed concern  she has heard because it                                                               
has  been some  time since  the  public hearing  process on  this                                                               
land.  She asked when the last public hearings were held.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LANCASTER deferred to Mr. Stratton.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0516                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM STRATTON,  Director, Division of Parks  & Outdoor Recreation,                                                               
Department   of   Natural    Resources   (DNR),   testified   via                                                               
teleconference.    He  informed  the committee  that  there  were                                                               
extensive public hearings  on the KRSMA update in  1997 and 1998.                                                               
[The  KRSMA  update]  made the  recommendation  for  the  acreage                                                               
included in  HB 165.   In the Fall of  1999, the Kenai  Area Plan                                                               
public comment  period also included these  same recommendations.                                                               
Although Mr. Stratton  didn't have the exact  number of hearings,                                                               
he said  perhaps Chris Degernes, Superintendent,  Kenai Peninsula                                                               
Area,  Division of  Parks &  Outdoor Recreation  (DNR), may  have                                                               
that information.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   LANCASTER  pointed   out   that   most  of   the                                                               
resolutions have  been updated  within the  last week,  since the                                                               
committee  last   heard  the  bill.     Representative  Lancaster                                                               
informed  the  committee that  he  had  individual testimony  and                                                               
letters of  support as  well as  a few  letters of  opposition to                                                               
this bill.  He offered to provide those to the committee.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0785                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI,  after  determining  that  some  teleconference                                                               
sites had "fallen  off," announced that HB 165 would  be taken up                                                               
again later in the hearing.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HB 93-KENAI DIP NET FISHERY PERMIT FEE                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 93,  "An Act  establishing the permit  fee for                                                               
the personal  use dip net fisheries  for the Kenai River  and the                                                               
Kasilof River; and providing for an effective date."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0880                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEN  LANCASTER, Alaska State  Legislature, sponsor                                                               
of HB  93, mentioned a  question raised [by  Representative Fate]                                                               
at the  previous hearing  regarding the  disposition of  the [dip                                                               
net] fee.   He pointed out a letter in  the committee packet from                                                               
Kevin  Brooks [which  explains that  the dip  net] fees  would go                                                               
[into the fish  and game fund and would  remain available pending                                                               
subsequent appropriation by the legislature.]                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[There was motion to adopt  HB 93(FSH), Version 22-LS0431\J, as a                                                               
work draft;  however, it was  later clarified by  Co-Chair Scalzi                                                               
that  the version  the  committee  wanted before  it  was HB  93,                                                               
Version 22-LS0431\C,  Utermohle, 2/17/01, which had  already been                                                               
adopted and amended on March 26, 2001.]                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0961                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN  BROOKS,  Director,  Division of  Administrative  Services,                                                               
Alaska  Department of  Fish  and Game  (ADF&G),  came before  the                                                               
committee  to  answer  the question  regarding  the  handling  of                                                               
revenue.    He explained  that  under  AS 16.05.110[(a)(1)],  the                                                               
revenue would  be deposited into the  fish and game fund.   Since                                                               
fish  and  game funds  are  already  excluded [from  unrestricted                                                               
general  fund] program  receipts  [under AS  37.05.146(b)(4)(F)],                                                               
the  second section  of the  bill  is not  necessary, because  it                                                               
would already be part of the fish and game fund exclusion.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1010                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE  stated  that  he  appreciated  Mr.  Brooks'                                                               
response.  He  asked Mr. Brooks to confirm that  the request from                                                               
Kenai  for the  use of  the restricted  funds would  follow along                                                               
with the  fish and game restricted  fund guidelines.  He  added a                                                               
"thank you" to Representative Lancaster.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS answered affirmatively.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1075                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROD   ARNO,  Representative,   Alaska   Outdoor  Council   (AOC),                                                               
mentioned  a  letter [included  in  the  committee packet].    He                                                               
thanked  Representative  Lancaster   for  introducing  the  bill,                                                               
because  human  waste,  trash, and  trespassing  are  a  problem;                                                               
however,  he  stated  that  AOC  is  concerned  about  setting  a                                                               
precedent of adding a fee for  a personal use fishery, instead of                                                               
going through  ADF&G's capital budget request  for facilities, or                                                               
for access issues.  Mr. Arno  said right now, one of the Division                                                               
of Sport Fish's missions is  to manage activities associated with                                                               
personal use fisheries.  He  added, "Here's an opportunity ... to                                                               
use the  Dingle/Johnson federal  money, as well  as the  fish and                                                               
game  money that  comes in,  for these  projects."   He explained                                                               
that it  would be  "put together  through a  process on  a budget                                                               
request to the department."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO stated that 275,000  nonresident sport fishermen brought                                                               
in  $9  million to  the  fish  and  game  fund in  2000,  whereas                                                               
approximately  115,00 resident  sport fishermen  brought in  only                                                               
$2.4 million.   He made the  point that there is  money available                                                               
through  nonresident sport  fishermen, Dingle/Johnson  money, and                                                               
the fish  and game fund  to support projects that  would mitigate                                                               
"these problems,"  as opposed  to having  an additional  $10 fee,                                                               
which [AOC]  considers just as "food  tax."  Mr. Arno  said as an                                                               
example, Alaskan  residents are  not charged an  additional price                                                               
for Tier II caribou permits,  even though the management of those                                                               
herds is "a different ... piece of the component."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO  said there  are two  different ways  in which  money is                                                               
available.  He mentioned the  CARA [Conservation and Reinvestment                                                               
Act]  program, which  uses fish  and game  funds as  part of  the                                                               
matching fund to  that.  He said $300,000 of  CARA money has been                                                               
allocated  to the  [Division of  Sport Fish]  for education,  but                                                               
there  is no  reason some  of  that money  could not  be used  to                                                               
provide facilities,  as it is in  other areas of the  state.  Mr.                                                               
Arno added that the state is  using only $1.5 million of the $2.4                                                               
million CARA money available.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO also  suggested the Habitat and  Restoration Division as                                                               
a source of  money, stating that its goal is  to protect fish and                                                               
wildlife  habitat  and  to  protect the  public  use  of  fishing                                                               
resources.   Currently, the Habitat  and Restoration  Division is                                                               
investing money into several projects,  including the Kenai River                                                               
salmon  habitat restoration  project.   He  spoke  of the  recent                                                               
approval  of HB  61,  which allows  the  habitat and  restoration                                                               
grant to be made directly to the department.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO stated that the AOC  feels there is genuine concern with                                                               
the  litter; there  are  other  ways to  take  care  of that,  as                                                               
opposed  to adding  a food  tax [by  charging] a  special fee  to                                                               
these dipnetters.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1390                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD MARTIN  testified via teleconference  in opposition  to HB
93.   He  referred  to Article  VIII, Section  3,  of the  Alaska                                                               
Constitution, which reads:                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
        Wherever occurring in their natural state, fish,                                                                        
      wildlife, and waters are reserved to the people for                                                                       
     common use.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARTIN said he recognizes  the problem with the management of                                                               
[the  Kenai dip  net  fishery].   He  mentioned  the troopers  or                                                               
"brown shirts," saying, "It's getting  to the point where most of                                                               
these  agencies  get   a  big  sum  of  money   and  they  aren't                                                               
accountable for what ... their  mission statement is, or at least                                                               
maybe they  feel they're doing  the best  they can."   Mr. Martin                                                               
suggested  that plenty  of people  in enforcement  are not  doing                                                               
much during  the winter  months and could  reroute some  hours to                                                               
cover the two- or three-month personal use fishery period.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARTIN  said he looks at  this as a constitutional  issue and                                                               
as a  management issue  "under a mission  statement of  ... who's                                                               
responsible  to  do  the   management  enforcement."    Regarding                                                               
detriment to the [river] banks, he  said many people are aware of                                                               
what's going on right now.  He said:                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     If we  can't get  some control of  that, we  can't have                                                                    
     some volunteers  in this system, because,  to be honest                                                                    
     with  you -  some of  that being  ... a  constitutional                                                                    
     right  for subsistence  - I  believe there's  ... good,                                                                    
     honest people,  good Alaskans that'll go  out there and                                                                    
     could work  within a controlled atmosphere  to see that                                                                    
     we  aren't  abusing  ...  it,  whether  nonresident  or                                                                    
     residents.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1555                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS GARCIA  testified via teleconference  in support of  HB 93,                                                               
telling the members that they were  not charging enough.  He said                                                               
he has  witnessed some  of the atrocious  problems [in  the Kenai                                                               
dip net  area].   He stated  that the  mayor of  Kenai [Peninsula                                                               
Borough] had  requested funding from  the state for  this problem                                                               
and was  told there  was no money  available.  He  said a  lot of                                                               
nonresidents who are  using the fishery shouldn't be.   He stated                                                               
his belief that imposing this  fee will help control, patrol, and                                                               
improve the fishery for the state.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1618                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DREW SPARLIN, testifying via teleconference,  said he supports HB
93  for   many  reasons,  most   of  which  had   been  mentioned                                                               
previously.  A resident within  one-quarter mile of the Kenai dip                                                               
net area, Mr. Sparlin stated that  he has witnessed "a very large                                                               
amount of abuse and disrespect."   He added that he did not think                                                               
anyone would argue [against] there  being a sanitation problem in                                                               
the area.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPARLIN questioned  the necessity of using  "brown shirts" to                                                               
monitor  the fishery,  as was  suggested  in previous  testimony;                                                               
however, he  said monitoring by  temporary, seasonal hires  - for                                                               
the purpose of checking licenses  and documenting harvest - would                                                               
be of  some value.  He  agreed with earlier testimony  that there                                                               
is  abuse  by  nonresidents.     Mr.  Sparlin  acknowledged  that                                                               
Representative Lancaster "hung  his neck out" on  this issue, but                                                               
said he is right to address it.   People who are going to utilize                                                               
the resources  don't want to tap  the permanent fund or  [pay for                                                               
the fishery with] taxes, and a  way to pay for [the management of                                                               
the Kenai dip net fishery] must be found.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1737                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE asked  Mr. Brooks  if, contrary  to previous                                                               
testimony,  other funding  sources  could adequately  be used  to                                                               
take  care of  the  same things  for which  the  proposed fee  is                                                               
intended.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS replied that there  are funding sources within [ADF&G]                                                               
that could legally be used, but  it is a matter of the allocation                                                               
of scarce resources.  He  said the department has projects within                                                               
the Division of Sport Fish budget,  and it would have to make the                                                               
call  that  this   is  of  greater  importance   than  the  other                                                               
management  work being  done.   He  suggested  that the  question                                                               
might better be  addressed to Mr. Hepler.  Mr.  Brooks said there                                                               
is no legality issue; general  funds could be used, for instance,                                                               
or fish  and game  funds currently  in the budget.   He  said, "I                                                               
think the  attempt here  was to try  [to] identity  an additional                                                               
source of revenue  for this specific purpose,  and not negatively                                                               
impact an existing project that might be going on."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FATE asked if fees  are ordinarily set by statute,                                                               
or are ever set by the board.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS answered  that every sport fishing  or hunting license                                                               
fee is  set in  statute.   The permit fees  are more  recent; for                                                               
example, the Chitina dip net fee is set in statute.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1855                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT asked how and  why the king salmon stamp,                                                               
required  to  fish  for  king  salmon in  the  Kenai  River,  was                                                               
instituted.  He asked where that money goes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROOKS responded  that the stamp has existed  since the early                                                               
to mid-1990s.   He said it  predates his work at  the department,                                                               
but his  understanding is that  chinook salmon are  recognized as                                                               
trophy fish,  and certain management  requirements go  along with                                                               
that.   Mr. Brooks  told the committee  that the  license revenue                                                               
goes  into the  fish  and game  fund,  and is  used  to fund  the                                                               
Division of Sport  Fish's budget; however, there  is more funding                                                               
allocated  to king  salmon management  than is  generated by  the                                                               
stamp alone.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[A one-minute at-ease was called.]                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1951                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI  clarified that before  the committee was  HB 93,                                                               
version 22-LS0431\C, Utermohle, 2/27/01 [as amended].                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT  moved  to  report HB  93,  version  22-                                                               
LS0431\C, Utermohle, 2/27/01 [as  amended], out of committee with                                                               
individual  recommendations  and  the accompanying  fiscal  note.                                                               
There  being no  objection, CSHB  93(RES)  was moved  out of  the                                                               
House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HB 165-KENAI RIVER SPECIAL MANAGEMENT AREA                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2040                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI  announced  that   the  committee  would  return                                                               
attention to  HOUSE BILL NO. 165,  "An Act relating to  the Kenai                                                               
River  Special Management  Area; and  providing for  an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FATE  made a motion  to adopt the proposed  CS for                                                               
HB 165,  Version C,  22-LS0389\C, Luckhaupt,  3/29/01, as  a work                                                               
draft.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2065                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RED SMITH testified via teleconference.   He referred to 1970 and                                                               
the Seward  National Recreation Area  Act.  He said  "they" asked                                                               
for 1.4 million  acres and "we" defeated the  federal proposal in                                                               
Congress  three  different times.    Finally,  "we" thought  we'd                                                               
settled  it "under  AS 9  of the  'D2' settlement."     Mr. Smith                                                               
referred to  a letter  from U.S. Senator  Stevens, which  said it                                                               
had finally  been accomplished; however,  today this  just refers                                                               
to about 8,000 acres.   It is down to a  much smaller acreage, he                                                               
remarked, but the  philosophy remains the same:  if  "we" lock up                                                               
and  lock  out,  something  will  be protected.    "We"  are  not                                                               
protecting the  Alaska Statehood Act, the  state constitution, or                                                               
the idea that development will occur in that area, he added.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH  said he has  concerns about  parks.  He  remarked that                                                               
the  settlement  agreement  was  reached in  June  2000,  and  he                                                               
doesn't believe there is any  evidence that these agreements have                                                               
been  fulfilled.    The  selection right  is  still  ignored  and                                                               
abused;  "we"  are going  too  fast  with the  "set-asides"  when                                                               
proper funding isn't available to  manage them.  The programs for                                                               
utilization  and Article  VIII [of  the state  constitution] have                                                               
been totally ignored, with fisheries as the exception.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SMITH stated  that he  was part  of a  group that  requested                                                               
"public interest intervenor" status on  July 10, 2000; he said he                                                               
would  send  a  copy  [of  the  request]  to  the  committee  for                                                               
consideration  prior to  taking action.   He  related his  belief                                                               
that  Alaska has  gone entirely  too far  "underground" in  these                                                               
"set-asides," and  now management in  the Cooper Landing  area is                                                               
critical.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH commented  that putting a stop sign  solved the problem                                                               
of a bad intersection in front  of the Cooper Landing School, but                                                               
it gets  run over because of  poor design; he said  these are the                                                               
kinds of  solutions [put  in place]  by the  Division of  Parks &                                                               
Outdoor Recreation in his community.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH  commented that  [the state] has  given the  division a                                                               
lot of authority  that it doesn't know how  to properly exercise,                                                               
and  land that  it  can't  manage.   He  said  [Alaska] has  many                                                               
federal,  state, and  local parks,  and more  attention could  be                                                               
paid  to the  word  "settlement."   [A portion  of  the tape  was                                                               
inaudible.]  In  42 years, 3.82 acres of land  was made available                                                               
for community (indisc.).                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SMITH remarked  that he would like to see  this bill reviewed                                                               
in its entirety.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2384                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
EDWARD D. MARTIN, JR., testified  via teleconference.  He said he                                                               
has been  very vocal on the  addition of the Kenai  River Special                                                               
Management Area  (KRSMA) and  the Kenai Area  Plan when  it comes                                                               
into  conflict  with  the  borough's selection  of  lands.    The                                                               
borough  signed an  agreement that  says certain  things will  be                                                               
done; however,  he is not  certain that the legislature  would be                                                               
privy to  those.   Therefore, he  suggested that  the legislature                                                               
review  the decision  made by  the Kenai  Peninsula Borough  with                                                               
regard to  its selection  and the  deal made  to ensure  that the                                                               
Kenai Area Plan could become a reality.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARTIN  clarified that  it wasn't really  whether or  not the                                                               
borough  was getting  a selection  of land,  but rather  that the                                                               
borough  was  going to  get  a  denial  and a  relinquishment  of                                                               
borough-selected lands.   He directed  the committee to  the last                                                               
line  in Section  7,  which he  said  makes it  very  clear.   He                                                               
objected  to this;  he said  after  40 years  of statehood,  with                                                               
numerous undermanaged and underfunded  parks, people of the state                                                               
[still]  have   little  land  available  for   settlement.    The                                                               
communities  and the  state can't  be sustained  for revenues  if                                                               
money continues  [to be allocated]  for state parks,  rather than                                                               
placing it on the tax rolls.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARTIN remarked that this  situation is affecting whether his                                                               
children can  stay in Alaska and  find land or will  be taxed out                                                               
of existence because  there isn't enough land in the  tax base to                                                               
support  schools.   Alaska  has  a dead  national  forest and  no                                                               
revenue is  coming from it,  he said.   This is  another negative                                                               
effect on our constitution, Article  VIII, Section 1, which reads                                                               
as follows:   "It  is the  policy of the  State to  encourage the                                                               
settlement of  its land and  the development of its  resources by                                                               
making them available for maximum  use consistent with the public                                                               
interest."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARTIN  said he wished  [the legislature] would  realize that                                                               
the  constitution already  has  a policy  and  thus doesn't  give                                                               
[authority] to  the departments  to create a  new ad  hoc policy.                                                               
He urged the legislature to look  into this more deeply.  He said                                                               
[former commissioner]  John Shively has  created a de  facto law,                                                               
and the departments are currently managing [KRSMA] as such.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2553                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DALE BONDURANT  testified via teleconference.   He  remarked that                                                               
he is  in full  support of  the addition to  KRSMA and  the added                                                               
protection  for  habitat.     He  maintained  that   there  is  a                                                               
constitutional mandate  that Alaska's  fish, wildlife,  and water                                                               
public  trust  resources  be protected  for  current  and  future                                                               
generations.   As time goes on,  [Alaska] is going to  need added                                                               
protection for public  trust resources.  Now is the  time to move                                                               
this addition forward, because later will be too late.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2615                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS GARCIA testified via teleconference.   He stated that he is                                                               
not in favor of  locking up land just for the  sake of locking it                                                               
up; however,  when KRSMA  was first formed,  he attended  most of                                                               
the  meetings, and  [KRSMA] has  done a  "pretty fair  job."   He                                                               
couldn't  say  whether  he  was   in  favor  or  opposed  to  the                                                               
legislation,  he  told  the committee,  because  he  hasn't  done                                                               
enough research to know what it encompasses.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2665                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SCALZI  noted   that  former  Representative  and                                                               
Speaker of the House Gail Phillips was present at the meeting.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2695                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  FATE  moved  to  report  CSHB  165,  version  22-                                                               
LS0389\C, Luckhaupt,  3/29/01, out  of committee  with individual                                                               
recommendations  and the  accompanying zero  fiscal note.   There                                                               
being  no objection,  CSHB 165(RES)  was moved  out of  the House                                                               
Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HB 216-BD OF FISHERIES MEETINGS/EMERGENCY ORDERS                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2735                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 216, "An  Act relating to the  emergency order                                                               
authority of  the commissioner of  fish and game and  to meetings                                                               
of the Board  of Fisheries."  [HB 216 was  sponsored by the House                                                               
Resources Standing Committee.]                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[There was a motion to adopt  HB 216 for discussion purposes, but                                                               
it was already before the committee.]                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2766                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI explained  that HB  216, which  he had  drafted,                                                               
addresses prevalent  problems experienced by ADF&G  and the Board                                                               
of Fisheries regarding openings,  closures, and agenda changes in                                                               
recent  years.   He cited  Section 3,  subsection (c)(1)  through                                                               
(3), specifying  that the added  language, on [page 2]  lines 15-                                                               
16, is  "[if] the  commissioner concurs"; the  intent is  to take                                                               
the pressure  off the Board  of Fisheries to address  every issue                                                               
that comes along.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI noted  that what has been lacking  is a consensus                                                               
by  the  experts of  ADF&G  in  determining  whether there  is  a                                                               
fishery  conservation  issue at  all.    He  said:   "The  public                                                               
certainly wants to have the ear  of the Board [of Fisheries], but                                                               
what happens, inadvertently,  is you get the issue  up before the                                                               
Board [of  Fisheries] and  you cause  things to  be taken  out of                                                               
cycle."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI  cited a  recent example of  the pressure  put on                                                               
the board to address every  issue that involves the Copper River.                                                               
The City  of Cordova, processors,  fishermen, and  sportsmen went                                                               
to Anchorage to  address a conservation issue to  which the Board                                                               
of Fisheries  had said it  would listen; however,  ADF&G declared                                                               
it was  not a  conservation issue and,  therefore, the  board did                                                               
not hear the issue.  Co-Chair  Scalzi said with the new language,                                                               
"what  we're really  saying is,  if it  really is  a conservation                                                               
issue, let's ask the experts ... who know about this."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI pointed  out Section 2 [subsection  (d), lines 8-                                                               
10, page 2], which read:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The  commissioner,  as   necessary  to  manage  fishery                                                                    
     resources for  sustained yield, may  exercise authority                                                                    
     under  this  section  to   supersede  a  regulation  or                                                                    
     fishery  management  plan  adopted   by  the  Board  of                                                                    
     Fisheries.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He  said emergency  orders are  not  new or  "exemplary."   Under                                                               
federal management, fisheries were  opened and closed on specific                                                               
dates, and the results were unsuccessful.  He added:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Our rivers  were depleted, there was  great abuse going                                                                    
     on, and there was no management  to speak of.  When the                                                                    
     State  of  Alaska took  over,  they  regulated ...  the                                                                    
     management for  ... sustained  yield on  our fisheries,                                                                    
     with  in-season  management.    In  essence,  emergency                                                                    
     orders  were   created  [and]  management   plans  were                                                                    
     developed.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI indicated  several  times when  [ADF&G] has  not                                                               
felt  comfortable in  superseding, which  is discretionary.   For                                                               
example,  where a  management  plan  is written  and  there is  a                                                               
closure date,  but numerous fish  show up, ADF&G is  reluctant to                                                               
open that fishery  because it may conflict with  the closure date                                                               
in the management plan.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 01-28, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2995                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI  made it clear  that his  intent was not  to move                                                               
the bill out of the committee  that day, because he said the bill                                                               
could be perceived  as controversial.  Furthermore,  he wanted to                                                               
hear public opinion and the concerns of the department.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2958                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  asked  Co-Chair   Scalzi  why  the  [House                                                               
Special Committee on Fisheries] had waived its referral.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI  replied that  he had  made that  request because                                                               
the end  of session was near  and the House Special  Committee on                                                               
Fisheries only meets once a  week; because of "the five-day" rule                                                               
[for   scheduling  hearings],   the   House  Resources   Standing                                                               
Committee would  not have seen the  bill for two weeks.   He also                                                               
mentioned that many members are on both committees.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2913                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  asked  Co-Chair Scalzi  if  the  intent                                                               
behind  the closure  was  distinctly  for conservation  purposes.                                                               
She  said   the  language  was   a  little  broader   than  "just                                                               
conservation" in Section 2.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI  answered  that  the  language  was  taken  from                                                               
[ADF&G's] regulations.  He said:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     This  is  how  they  feel comfortable  in  bringing  up                                                                    
     another  issue.   If somebody  wants to  take something                                                                    
     out of  cycle, they have  [these] criteria in  front of                                                                    
     them.   And also, in  the regulations they did  not put                                                                    
     in statute,  was the fact  that they cannot take  it up                                                                    
     for  "allocative" reasons.   That  is not  ... in  this                                                                    
     part of it, but it is in their regulations.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA   rephrased  her  question   to  inquire                                                               
whether  Co-Chair  Scalzi's  intent   behind  the  bill  was  for                                                               
purposes   of  conservation,   rather   than   for  purposes   of                                                               
allocation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI answered in the affirmative.  He explained:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     What can happen  now, and what's happened  in the past,                                                                    
     is  a conservational  issue will  be brought  up.   The                                                                    
     Board [of Fisheries] will take  it up, and in doing so,                                                                    
     when they  go through their process,  they can actually                                                                    
     reallocate  at that  meeting.   And  if a  conservation                                                                    
     issue  ... really  existed, then  that  would be  fine,                                                                    
     because the purview of the  Board of Fisheries is to do                                                                    
     allocations.  It's not the  department and it's not the                                                                    
     legislature.   But to  bring it  up for  allocation, it                                                                    
     should  go through  its regular  cycle.   And ...  what                                                                    
     this language does is just  verify that there really is                                                                    
     a conservation issue.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA suggested  that when  the representative                                                               
from the  Department of Law  came before the committee,  he could                                                               
be asked to  clarify the issue.  She stated  her concern that the                                                               
present language might "open it  up" for the commissioner to make                                                               
decisions  regarding  allocation.   She  asked  whether  Co-Chair                                                               
Scalzi  had said  he wanted  to raise  the conservation  issue so                                                               
that the  Board [of Fisheries]  could make the  proper allocative                                                               
decisions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI  answered no.   He  outlined the  process whereby                                                               
the Board  of Fisheries gets  a petition or proposal  alerting it                                                               
of a conservation problem necessitating  that it address an issue                                                               
out of  cycle.  Rather than  have the "lay board"  verify that it                                                               
really  is  a  conservation  issue,   Co-Chair  Scalzi  said  the                                                               
decision would  be deferred to  the biologists in ADF&G,  who are                                                               
better qualified to make that determination.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said she  understood what Co-Chair Scalzi                                                               
was trying to  effect, but suggested that the  language needed to                                                               
be changed to reflect that.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2764                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
FRANK  RUE,  Commissioner,  Alaska  Department  of  Fish  &  Game                                                               
(ADF&G),  gave an  overview of  the department's  issues with  HB
216.  He stressed that Alaska's  successful system is based on an                                                               
important separation  of powers:   the  Board of  Fisheries makes                                                               
allocation  decisions,   and  the  department  gives   the  board                                                               
information  on  how  many  fish are  available,  tells  it  what                                                               
management  strategies  are   possible,  and  performs  in-season                                                               
management to  make sure any  surplus resource can  be harvested.                                                               
He  added  that  having  the  emergency-order  authority  in  the                                                               
department,  particularly for  fisheries, is  critical to  taking                                                               
advantage  of  a  larger  run  that  comes  in,  or  constraining                                                               
fisheries if the run comes in smaller.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE pointed out that  other states have the director                                                               
of the  department making allocation  decisions, but  he stressed                                                               
that that he would not want  the job of allocating that the Board                                                               
of  Fisheries presently  has.   Furthermore, he  said, he  thinks                                                               
Alaska's system  is a model  for success; the Board  of Fisheries                                                               
gives  guidance to  ADF&G, and  ADF&G has  the flexibility  to be                                                               
able to take advantage of the run or to "fall back."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  RUE referred  to Section  2 of  HB 216,  saying the                                                               
language  was  too broad  and  gave  too  much latitude  for  the                                                               
department to override an existing  regulation.  He mentioned the                                                               
Peninsula Marketing  Association v.  Rosier case over  a previous                                                             
commissioner's attempt to  close down an Area M  fishery that the                                                               
Board of Fisheries had already decided.   He said the court ruled                                                               
that  the commissioner  could not  override  a board  regulation,                                                               
however,   without  new   information  that   the  board   hadn't                                                               
considered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     COMMISSIONER RUE said many  management plans around the                                                                    
     state  are flexible  enough to  allow for  considerable                                                                    
     latitude,   so   there   are  few   instances   of   an                                                                    
     "opportunity being unavailable" because  of a Board [of                                                                    
     Fisheries] management  plan.   As an example,  he cited                                                                    
     an  occurrence  last  summer   [2000]  when  the  board                                                                    
     constrained the opportunity for  pink salmon fishing in                                                                    
     Cook Inlet until it could produce a management plan.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE said  the public has the choice  to petition for                                                               
a change  if they  don't like  the manner in  which a  fishery is                                                               
currently structured.   He noted  an instance when that  was done                                                               
in Cook Inlet, but said because  the petition took so long to put                                                               
together and was submitted late,  the board decided not to change                                                               
its  management plan.   Commissioner  Rue recapped  the two  ways                                                               
that  the  public can  have  an  opportunity to  request  change:                                                               
through  the  authority of  the  commissioner  of ADF&G,  and  by                                                               
petitioning  the Board  [of Fisheries]  in-season.   He mentioned                                                               
Section 2 of the bill and  stated his preference that the current                                                               
balance be maintained.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  RUE turned  attention  to Section  3  of the  bill,                                                               
which addresses how the board changes  its agenda.  He stated his                                                               
preference that  the board have its  own rules to change  its own                                                               
agenda and  "not have  the department  have to  [assert] itself."                                                               
Furthermore, he would like the board  to listen to ADF&G when the                                                               
department does not think an  issue in question is a conservation                                                               
one.   He noted that the  board did amend its  agenda criteria to                                                               
be able  to change its  agenda when  it needs to  coordinate with                                                               
the federal fishery  management plan.  For example,  if the North                                                               
Pacific Fishery  Management Council (NPFMC)  makes a change  to a                                                               
cod fishery, the Board [of Fisheries]  wants to be able to change                                                               
its agenda to respond to the actions of the NPFMC.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  RUE   reported  that   in  [the   board's]  amended                                                               
regulations is  a fourth  criterion; he  recommended that  if the                                                               
House  Resources  Standing  Committee  decides  to  put  this  in                                                               
statute, the department should deliver  the latest regulations to                                                               
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[Co-Chair Scalzi passed  around a "stack of  emergency orders" to                                                               
show the committee how the language is written.]                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2320                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GREEN  asked   Commissioner   Rue  whether   the                                                               
emergency  orders   were  from  his  department,   and  requested                                                               
clarification as  to whether they  did not deal  with allocation,                                                               
but instead  were a  "determination that there  are, or  are not,                                                               
enough fish to catch."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE said yes to  both, indicating an emergency order                                                               
is  usually  to open  or  close  a  fishery, "contingent  with  a                                                               
management  plan."     In  response  to   another  question  from                                                               
Representative Green, he replied that  the bill was not trying to                                                               
supersede that, but  because the bill's language is  so broad, he                                                               
is  concerned that  it would  allow a  commissioner, through  the                                                               
emergency   orders,  to   change   a   management  plan   through                                                               
allocation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2270                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CHENAULT asked Commissioner  Rue if the department                                                               
has "EO" [emergency order] authority in Cook Inlet.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE replied:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Yes, we  do.  It's  constrained by the  management plan                                                                    
     the Board  [of Fisheries] set  up.  For  instance, they                                                                    
     have  a couple  of mandatory  closures, ...  but within                                                                    
     those  mandatory parts  of the  ... management  plan we                                                                    
     have discretion to open and close fisheries.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CHENAULT alluded  to previous  remarks about  not                                                               
being  able  to  fish  for  pink salmon  because  of  lack  of  a                                                               
management plan.   He also mentioned a management  plan the board                                                               
had   mandated  the   department  to   implement;  however,   the                                                               
department did not do so, possibly  because of an issue of funds,                                                               
he surmised.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2192                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DOUG   MECUM,  Director,   Division   of  Commercial   Fisheries,                                                               
Department of Fish & Game  (ADF&G), in response to questions from                                                               
Representative  Chenault,  restated  Commissioner  Rue's  earlier                                                               
statement  regarding  the  petition  to the  Board  of  Fisheries                                                               
regarding pink salmon in Cook Inlet.  He said:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The board,  in this case, [acted  in a way that]  was a                                                                    
     little  bit  unusual, in  that  [it]  went ...  a  step                                                                    
     further  and said,  "Not  until such  time  as we  have                                                                    
     better  information   that  we  can  use   to  build  a                                                                    
     management plan that ensures  the conservation of these                                                                    
     various  stocks will  we allow  ...  the department  to                                                                    
     open a directed fishery on pink salmon."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM explained  that the board justified  [that decision] on                                                               
the basis of  what it calls a "precautionary approach,"  due to a                                                               
lack of information on coho  salmon, and because of the depressed                                                               
status of the chum salmon stocks.  He continued:                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     So,  in response  to  this action  that  the Board  [of                                                                    
     Fisheries] took, we set about  going to the legislature                                                                    
     to seek  funding, and  this year we  put in  a million-                                                                    
     dollar-increment   request    from   CFEC   [Commercial                                                                    
     Fisheries Entry  Commission] receipt services  and non-                                                                    
     GF [general fund] program receipts.   A quarter million                                                                    
     dollars of  that, if it goes  through - and so  far, it                                                                    
     has  gone through  - would  be for  a Cook  Inlet-wide,                                                                    
     abundance-based  tagging program,  which  would be  the                                                                    
     first key step in us  getting a better handle in-season                                                                    
     of how  many fish we're  dealing with - how  many chums                                                                    
     and pinks  are there, what's  the status of cohos  - so                                                                    
     we could better refine our management approach.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MECUM  concluded  that  this  process  was  a  way  for  the                                                               
department to report back to the board and the public.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2035                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   FATE  read   the  following   from  Section   3,                                                               
subsection (c)1),  lines 15-16:  "address  a fishery conservation                                                               
issue  if   the  commissioner  concurs".     He  asked,   if  the                                                               
commissioner did not concur, whether  the board would not be able                                                               
to take that matter up.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE concurred.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FATE  asked if that  [language in the  bill] would                                                               
counter    the   previously-mentioned    balance   between    the                                                               
responsibilities of the board.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE answered a qualified  yes.  He said the language                                                               
inserts  the commissioner  into  the  board's own  agenda-setting                                                               
abilities.   He added that  the board has  tried to set  a three-                                                               
year schedule,  so that the  public knows when things  are coming                                                               
up and so every issue is not brought up every year.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1961                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI asked  for confirmation  that,  under the  "coho                                                               
plan," the closing  date for pinks, chums, or reds  was August 5,                                                               
and asked  what the total number  of pinks was that  showed up in                                                               
Cook Inlet.  He said he had  heard an estimate of 20 million from                                                               
the department.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
[Commissioner  Rue conferred  with Mr.  Mecum, and  between them,                                                               
the answer given was a closing date of August 7.]                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER  RUE said  the department  didn't have  an "absolute                                                               
number" regarding the pink salmon.  He added:                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Again, that's ... one of  the reasons why the Board [of                                                                    
     Fisheries]  did what  they did.    [Its members]  said,                                                                    
     "Look, ...  there [are]  lots of pinks,  but what  is a                                                                    
     lot, and what  do we need for escapement,  and how many                                                                    
     cohos are  there?"  They wanted  more specificity; they                                                                    
     wanted more quantitative estimates of what that was.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI  said he'd heard  that the number of  pink salmon                                                               
was estimated at 20 million.   He added that the number came from                                                               
the local area biologists within the department.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM said that number was a "wild guess."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI  inquired  whether,  when the  surplus  of  pink                                                               
salmon had shown up, the department  had said its hands were tied                                                               
and that it was unable to  manage an EO [emergency order] because                                                               
of the management plan.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE  said that was "basically  correct," adding that                                                               
there  were "plenty  of pinks  around"  to have  a directed  pink                                                               
salmon fishery.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI  mentioned the failed petition  discussed earlier                                                               
in the meeting.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1819                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MECUM responded:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     There  is   a  petition   process  in  the   Board  [of                                                                    
     Fisheries]   regulations   that  says   under   certain                                                                    
     situations they will  hear an issue out of  cycle.  And                                                                    
     the criteria for  that has to do with  a situation that                                                                    
     threatens  a fish  or game  resource  - a  conservation                                                                    
     emergency, or if there is  going to be some substantial                                                                    
     harm  ... to  somebody who's  not able  to access  some                                                                    
     resource.  And, clearly,  this situation did come under                                                                    
     those  criteria.   And  so  the  board was  willing  to                                                                    
     consider it under those criteria,  but the petition [by                                                                    
     the fishermen] ... was submitted  very late in the pink                                                                    
     salmon run - probably two to three weeks late.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1777                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR asked if  there were any suggestions  the department had                                                               
to "remedy the problem" and to speed up the petition process.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE mentioned a question  he had received previously                                                               
from Representative  Fate, regarding  Section 3  of the  bill and                                                               
whether  the  department  would  be stepping  in  to  change  the                                                               
balance between  itself and the  board.  He revisited  an earlier                                                               
comment  by Mr.  Mecum  that  [under the  new  provisions of  the                                                               
bill],  the board  could  still accept  its  own agenda  changes.                                                               
Commissioner Rue added  that as he understands  it, [the proposed                                                               
language of the  bill] would change how the  Board [of Fisheries]                                                               
deals with  public requests to  change its agenda.   Commissioner                                                               
Rue  said, "So,  while  I might  be able  to  limit which  public                                                               
requests for  agenda changes  go to  [the] Board  [of Fisheries],                                                               
... they  could still  accept their  own agenda  change requests,                                                               
from  their  own  members,  without  my  saying  anything."    He                                                               
emphasized that  there would be  a limited change in  the balance                                                               
of powers.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1693                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE FATE qualified that not  only would it be limited,                                                               
but  it  would  also  be   restricted  solely  to  the  issue  of                                                               
conservation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
COMMISSIONER RUE concurred.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1618                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GERRY  MERRIGAN, Petersburg  Vessel  Owner's Association  (PVOA),                                                               
testified  via teleconference  in support  of  HB 216.   He  said                                                               
although the  board can  move fast,  sometimes it  cannot convene                                                               
quickly  enough  to react  to  an  in-season issue,  whereas  the                                                               
commissioner could  do so  [under the bill].   He  specified that                                                               
Section 3 is a limited modification  of the balance of powers and                                                               
a "very  needed portion" of  the bill.   He added  that presently                                                               
the board  relies heavily on  the committee process  to encourage                                                               
stakeholder participation.   He said the  "committee process" has                                                               
lengthened to 10-11  days, and he thought the  Board of Fisheries                                                               
process  was  "under its  own  democratic  considerations."   Mr.                                                               
Merrigan added,  "The more we  can filter out  appropriate agenda                                                               
proposals, the better off we would be."  He continued:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     In the case of the  "Copper River exercise," that was a                                                                    
     considerable  expenditure  of  energy by  all  parties.                                                                    
     That ...  seemed to  bear out  [that] the  final action                                                                    
     was  unnecessary. ...  We just  went through  a similar                                                                    
     exercise  at the  Board of  Fisheries on  separation of                                                                    
     powers,  on the  biology and  allocation of  escapement                                                                    
     goal  policy.   And I  think this  [Copper River  case]                                                                    
     kind  of  falls  in  the   same  ...  vein,  where  the                                                                    
     department  is  responsible  for  the  biology.    [For                                                                    
     instance],  a   conservation  concern  should   be  ...                                                                    
     concurred with  them.   I don't  think that's  asking a                                                                    
     whole lot,  that the department at  least [agrees] that                                                                    
     it's a conservation  concern, [in order] to  take it up                                                                    
     out of sequence.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     I  think Commissioner  Rue was  absolutely  right:   It                                                                    
     does drive people  crazy to have to come  every year to                                                                    
     a meeting  to address the  same issue as an  item, when                                                                    
     it's supposed to come up every three years.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MERRIGAN  concluded by thanking the  House Resources Standing                                                               
Committee  for its  consideration of  HB 216  and saying  that he                                                               
hoped the committee could move the  bill ahead, and "at least get                                                               
some language in Section 2."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1435                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
NOEL WOODS, testifying via teleconference,  asked if the language                                                               
of  the bill  would make  the commissioner  more responsible  for                                                               
lack of action  on a particular fishery,  specifically, when such                                                               
action  was directed  by the  board.   He said,  "We in  the Cook                                                               
Inlet/Susitna  area have  been  extremely  disappointed with  the                                                               
lack of action directed by  the commissioner regarding escapement                                                               
goals for spawning salmon in our area."  He continued:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The  sponsor statement  is  not  reassuring about  this                                                                    
     concern.  Further, it seems  that by the second changed                                                                    
     statement that this bill places  the Board of Fisheries                                                                    
     in  a "second  position" as  regards items  of concern.                                                                    
     If  this  is true,  then  this  bill is  certainly  not                                                                    
     acceptable.   The  governor directing  the commissioner                                                                    
     is  not  a  replacement  for  the  Board  of  Fisheries                                                                    
     answering to the people of the  state.  At this time, I                                                                    
     oppose this bill as it's written.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1331                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE COVEL  testified via  teleconference.   He stated  that he                                                               
had been  involved with the  "Alaska boards process" for  over 18                                                               
years,  as a  member of  his local  advisory committee,  which he                                                               
chaired for the last 10 years.  He said:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     In  1997 -  and it  was  a matter  of months  following                                                                    
     completion of the regularly  scheduled meeting for this                                                                    
     area -  an e-mail to the  commissioner, which concerned                                                                    
     the Copper River, was somehow  manufactured into an ACR                                                                    
     [and]   brought  before   the  Board   [of  Fisheries].                                                                    
     Following  that  episode,   the  Board  [of  Fisheries]                                                                    
     promised  and  delivered   a  standardized  format  for                                                                    
     ACR's,  but,  in spite  of  this  clarification of  the                                                                    
     process, the  Board [of Fisheries] continues  to accept                                                                    
     ACR's,    sometimes   arbitrarily,    with   increasing                                                                    
     frequency.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     In his introduction  [Co-Chair Scalzi] briefly outlined                                                                    
     what happened  with another  ACR concerning  the Copper                                                                    
     River this  past winter.   I might  add that  that also                                                                    
     occurred [within]  a matter of months  after completion                                                                    
     of the regularly scheduled meeting for our area.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Both of these matters  were eventually resolved, but at                                                                    
     considerable cost  to the  public, the  department, and                                                                    
     the Board [of Fisheries].   I think that [HB] 216 would                                                                    
     clarify  and  strengthen   existing  statutes,  yet  it                                                                    
     recognizes  a fundamental  fact:   professional fishery                                                                    
     managers are  much better qualified to  make scientific                                                                    
     determinations  as  to  fishery conservation  than  lay                                                                    
     members of an appointed board.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Furthermore, the  public is accustomed to  and deserves                                                                    
     a predictable  board process.   This bill,  if enacted,                                                                    
     would   help  bring   current   Board  [of   Fisheries]                                                                    
     practices in  line with  legislative intent  and public                                                                    
     expectations.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1178                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BOB  MERCHANT,   President  of  the   United  Cook   Inlet  Drift                                                               
Association (UCIDA), testified via  teleconference.  On behalf of                                                               
UCIDA, Mr. Merchant  expressed support of HB 216.   He said UCIDA                                                               
believes  the  commissioner  has  always  had  the  authority  to                                                               
supersede  a  regulation  or management  plan,  "should  certain,                                                               
unforeseen  circumstances,  not  previously  considered,"  become                                                               
known to  him.  Mr.  Merchant added that  there seems to  be some                                                               
confusion regarding this  authority, which HB 216  would serve to                                                               
clarify.   He  said  it was  felt  by UCIDA  that  the Board  [of                                                               
Fisheries] has,  in the  recent past, used  the ACR  authority to                                                               
deliberate  issues  out  of  cycle   by  using  the  conservation                                                               
criteria,  when,   in  fact,   the  issues   turned  out   to  be                                                               
"allocative."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MERCHANT described  "allocative" issues  as being  "strictly                                                               
confined  to regular  three-year-cycle meetings,"  at which  time                                                               
the public may participate.  He concluded:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     By  requiring substantial  proof  and concurrence  from                                                                    
     the  commissioner  and   department  that  conservation                                                                    
     concern does exist, the public  and the state will save                                                                    
     substantial  dollars and  time,  and allocation  issues                                                                    
      will be debated in the proper forum, during regular-                                                                      
     cycle meetings.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1055                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS  GARCIA,  representing  the  Cook  Inlet  Fishermen's  Fund                                                               
(CIFF), testified  via teleconference in  support of HB 216.   He                                                               
said,  "I [respectfully]  disagree  with  the commissioner  about                                                               
Section 3  of this  bill changing the  balance of  power," adding                                                               
that [Section 3]  would most likely keep the balance  of power by                                                               
preventing  the board  from  being  allowed to  "run  amok."   He                                                               
mentioned a  comment by a  testifier regarding the  board's being                                                               
accountable  to the  people.   To  the contrary,  he stated  that                                                               
because  the  board is  appointed  by  the  governor, it  is  not                                                               
answerable  to  the  people.    Mr.  Garcia  commented  that  the                                                               
biologists are more answerable to the people.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GARCIA indicated he would like  to see EO authority go to the                                                               
local  area management  biologists as  well as  the commissioner.                                                               
He said  there is no way  that ADF&G could function  without this                                                               
authority.   Mr.  Garcia said  when the  authority is  taken away                                                               
like the  [Board of Fisheries]  has done in the  past, "basically                                                               
we're paying people  to do something they're not  allowed to do."                                                               
He  added, "If  you don't  have  the power  to manage  something,                                                               
there's  really not  a lot  of  sense in  having you  hired as  a                                                               
manager."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0918                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DALE  BONDURANT, testifying  via teleconference,  stated that  he                                                               
believes  in  immediate  response   for  emergency  openings  and                                                               
closures   and  responsible   management   for  sustained   yield                                                               
protection,  such as  escapement goals.   He  said he  hoped that                                                               
political  pressure would  not override  biological need,  noting                                                               
that  that had  been the  "record in  the past."   Mr.  Bondurant                                                               
cited  an example,  saying:   "Carl Rosier,  former commissioner,                                                               
lost his position when he  stopped continuous commercial openings                                                               
for three  days to  allow additional  escapement in  Glacier (ph)                                                               
River."  He stated his opinion  as an observer that, in the past,                                                               
the department  has been "influenced by  local political pressure                                                               
in  this  area."   Mr.  Bondurant  said  at  first glance  he  is                                                               
hesitant to support the bill and  intends to watch the results of                                                               
HB 216, should it pass.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0833                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DREW SPARLIN, United Cook Inlet  Drift Association, testified via                                                               
teleconference in support of HB 216.   He stated that he has been                                                               
actively involved in the Board  [of Fisheries] process during the                                                               
over 30  years he  has been  a commercial  fisherman in  the Cook                                                               
Inlet.   Mr. Sparlin said he  sees a definite need  to define the                                                               
goals and  obligations of both  the Board [of Fisheries]  and the                                                               
department.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPARLIN talked about his  involvement at the Soldotna office,                                                               
starting  on  "the  fourth  day   of  August,"  asking  for  some                                                               
provision to  help harvest the  surplus of pink  salmon available                                                               
in  the Cook  Inlet.   He  indicated he  had  in front  of him  a                                                               
written  response from  that office,  stating that  they did  not                                                               
have  the authority,  according to  the  Department of  Law.   He                                                               
mentioned having to petition at that point.  He said:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     We did  develop a viable  fishery.  In  [that] respect,                                                                    
     we developed  a market.   I had  a promise  of "20-cent                                                                    
     pinks" which  would have salvaged  our fishery  to some                                                                    
     degree, at least for the  season, possibly avoiding the                                                                    
     need to  call the governor's  people down here  to talk                                                                    
     about requiring a pretty severe  situation like we went                                                                    
     through. ... Here  in the Cook Inlet, we  were party to                                                                    
     meetings that [were] conducted under  the ACR, when the                                                                    
     department  said  that  there was  not  a  conservation                                                                    
     concern.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     I'm  speaking  of  the   avalanche  (ph)  meeting  that                                                                    
     occurred  in  Anchorage,  and   ...  that  meeting  ...                                                                    
     resulted  in making  [an] allocation.   They  took away                                                                    
     gear from  fishermen in [the]  northern portion  of the                                                                    
     Cook  Inlet; they  took away  time from  the commercial                                                                    
     fishermen  in the  central district;  and they  reduced                                                                    
     the bag limit in the  river; but that had absolutely no                                                                    
     assurance of dropping any amount  of harvest, and there                                                                    
     was  no monitoring.   This  works, folks,  whenever you                                                                    
     have a  board that will  deal with the issues  based on                                                                    
     the biological information presented  to them.  It does                                                                    
     not [work]  whenever you  have a  board that  is driven                                                                    
     with an agenda.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0575                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI reminded the committee  that HB 216 would be held                                                               
over.  He mentioned  that he had a letter to  the chairman of the                                                               
Board  [of Fisheries]  and  wanted to  get  the board's  concerns                                                               
regarding  HB  216.     He  referred  to  the   concerns  of  the                                                               
commissioner  and   the  department,  and   encouraged  committee                                                               
members to direct any comments to  him during the next week.  [HB
216 was held over.]                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HCR 13-NONRES. COMMERCIAL FISHING FEES                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[Contains discussion of HB 194]                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0465                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SCALZI announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be  HOUSE   CONCURRENT  RESOLUTION   NO.  13,  Relating   to  the                                                               
nonresident fee  differential for commercial fishing  permits and                                                               
licenses.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[There was a motion to adopt  HCR 13 for discussion purposes, but                                                               
it was already before the committee.]                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS  reminded members  that the  committee had                                                               
recently passed  HB 194, a response  to the Carlson case  and the                                                             
supreme  court ruling  that Alaska  could not  charge nonresident                                                               
fishermen three times more than  resident fishermen were charged.                                                               
He recapped that HB 194 was  a practical response to the problems                                                               
Alaska  faced  in that  case.    Representative Stevens  reminded                                                               
those present  that the intent of  HB 194 was to  say that Alaska                                                               
would  charge [nonresident  fishermen] the  most the  court would                                                               
allow  it to  charge.   He  mentioned that  although  HB 194  was                                                               
passed out  of the  House Resources  Standing Committee,  some of                                                               
its members were concerned that the  language of the bill did not                                                               
make as  strong a statement as  should be made; therefore  HCR 13                                                               
was conceived.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STEVENS stated  that HCR  13 clarifies  the House                                                               
Resources  Standing Committee's  concerns regarding  HB 194,  and                                                               
highlights  the  reasons  why the  committee  thinks  nonresident                                                               
fishermen  should  be  charged   more  than  resident  fishermen,                                                               
including the cost  to the legislature and the court  system.  He                                                               
mentioned page  2, line  28, of  the resolution,  describing that                                                               
line and  ensuing lines as  "a kitchen-sink approach  that tosses                                                               
everything into  the works."  Representative  Stevens stated that                                                               
he would like to see [HCR 13] move right along with [HB 194].                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0220                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SCALZI summarized  that  HCR 13  "goes  along with  our                                                               
provision  of changing  the way  the  Commercial Fisheries  Entry                                                               
Commission charges  for in-state and out-of-state  licenses."  He                                                               
added that he was satisfied with the resolution.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0180                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS  moved to report  HCR 13 out  of committee                                                               
with individual recommendations and  the accompanying zero fiscal                                                               
note.   There being  no objection,  HCR 13 was  moved out  of the                                                               
House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Resource Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:52 p.m.                                                                  
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