02/12/1998 01:20 PM House RES
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HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 12, 1998
1:20 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Joe Green (via teleconference)
Representative William K.(Bill) Williams
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Irene Nicholia
Representative Reggie Joule
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
* HOUSE BILL NO. 182
"An Act relating to the qualifications of the state forester."
- MOVED CSHB 182(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 310
"An Act relating to the utilization of groundfish; and providing
for an effective date."
- MOVED HB 310 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 285
"An Act relating to suspension or revocation of commercial fishing
permits and privileges."
- BILL HEARING CANCELLED
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 182
SHORT TITLE: QUALIFICATIONS OF STATE FORESTER
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) WILLIAMS
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
03/07/97 584 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/07/97 584 (H) RESOURCES
02/12/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 310
SHORT TITLE: UTILIZATION OF GROUNDFISH
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) AUSTERMAN
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
01/12/98 2025 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/12/98 2026 (H) FISHERIES, RESOURCES
01/28/98 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
01/30/98 (H) MINUTE(FSH)
01/30/98 2179 (H) FSH RPT 4DP
01/30/98 2179 (H) DP: OGAN, IVAN, HODGINS, KUBINA
01/30/98 2179 (H) AUSTERMAN
01/30/98 2179 (H) 2 ZERO FNS (DPS, F&G)
01/30/98 2179 (H) REFERRED TO RESOURCES
02/12/98 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
TOM BOUTIN
(Address not provided)
Telephone: (Not provided)
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony on HB 182.
JEFF JAHNKE, State Forester
Division of Forestry
Department of Natural Resources
400 Willoughby, 3rd Floor
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1724
Telephone: (907) 465-3379
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 182.
WAYNE NICOLLS, Representative
Alaska Society of American Foresters
9723 Trappers Lane
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (Not provided)
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 182.
AMY DAUGHERTY, Legislative Administrative Assistant
to Representative Alan Austerman
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 434
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2487
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor statement for Representative
Alan Austerman, sponsor of HB 310.
RICK LAUBER, Representative
North Pacific Fishery Management Council;
Alaska Manager/Vice President
Pacific Seafood Processors Association
321 Highland Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1442
Telephone: (907) 586-6366
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 310.
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526
Telephone: (907) 465-6141
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided testimony in support of HB 310.
CHRIS BLACKBURN
P.O. Box 948
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: (907) 486-3033
POSITION STATEMENT: Provide testimony in support of HB 310.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 98-10, SIDE A
Number 0001
CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:20 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Hudson, Ogan, Dyson, Green and
Williams. Representatives Masek and Barnes arrived at 1:25 p.m.
and 1:30 p.m., respectively.
HB 182 - QUALIFICATIONS OF STATE FORESTER
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the first order of business was House
Bill No. 182, "An Act relating to the qualifications of the state
forester."
Number 0113
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS, sponsor of HB 182, explained he
introduced the bill to further strengthen the state's forestry
program. The state already has one of the toughest Forest
Practices Act in the nation. And, there has been legislation
introduced by the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the
President of the Senate to make the act even stronger. Thus, HB
182 follows the trend to make the state's forestry program the best
in the country. The bill would require the head of the Division of
Forestry to have a bachelors degree or higher from a program
accredited by the Society of American Foresters (SAF) and three
years of field experience. The state's forests are becoming even
more important with the decrease of available federal timber.
Therefore, it is necessary to have a professional (indis.) in the
division where approximately 70 percent of employees are either
professional foresters or forestry technicians. The bill would
also give the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association a formal opportunity
to provide input during the hiring process. He encouraged the
committee members to pass the bill from the House Resources
Standing Committee.
Number 0289
TOM BOUTIN stated he first moved to Alaska in 1973 at the age of
23. It is an excellent idea to consult with the Alaska Fire Chiefs
Association for the selection of a state forester and other issues
that come before the Division of Forestry. However, he is
concerned about the current deputy state forester, a lady who has
been acting state forester at least two times under different
administrations. She is very well qualified, but she grew up in
Nome. She is a contemporary of Representative Richard Foster. She
attended the University of Alaska Fairbanks and her degree is in
geology. The bill would eliminate her as a potential candidate for
state forester at any time in the future. He said, "When you have
been out of school for so long, it is more what you have learned
along the way than how your degree might read."
Number 0449
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS stated he has been talking with Mr. Boutin
over the past few days in regards to his concerns. If there was a
way to fix the bill for him, he would, but as it reads now it is
good for the state.
Number 0479
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK asked Representative Williams whether
there have been problems in the past with the way the division has
been run and what was his reasoning for the bill.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked Representative Masek to hold her question.
Number 0532
JEFF JAHNKE, State Forester, Division of Forestry, Department of
Natural Resources, stated we support the intent of the bill. It is
important that the Alaska Fire Chiefs Association has input into
the selection of state foresters because they are a major
cooperator of state forestry activities. The language regarding
qualifications is more restrictive than necessary so we recommend
the language refer to the "definition of a professional forester as
defined by the SAF" rather than "graduation from a SAF certified
institution." In April of 1997 the Board of Forestry looked at the
bill and unanimously agreed to include the Alaska Fire Chiefs
Association as part of the selection process, but failed to support
the requirement of a bachelors degree and three years of field
experience.
Number 0636
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS explained he had been in contact with the
commissioner and agreed to the changes that are in the bill today.
Number 0684
WAYNE NICOLLS, Representative, Alaska Society of American
Foresters, read the following statement into the record:
"The Alaska Society of American Foresters believes, consistent with
the national Society's position relative to federal resource
management agencies, that Alaska's state resource management
agencies should be lead by professionals pertinent to the agencies'
responsibilities.
"As regards to the Division of Forestry, we believe the state's
best interests in behalf of professional scientific management of
the state's forest resources, are best served by a professional
forester. Requirements for professional membership in the Society
of American Foresters (SAF) should serve as a working definition
for this purpose. They follow:
"A. Must be a graduate of an SAF accredited forestry
curriculum or of a candidate curriculum for accreditation
or,
"B. be a recipient of a graduate degree in forestry from
an institution that has an SAF accredited forestry
curriculum or one that is a candidate for accreditation
or,
"C. be a scientist or practitioner who holds a
bachelor's or higher degree within the broad field of
forestry based on a curriculum that is neither SAF
accredited nor a candidate for accreditation and who has
three or more years of qualifying experience within the
broad field of forestry.
"The characteristics of natural resources are such that their most
effective management should not be subject to frequent leadership
and personnel turnover and policy shifts that preclude continuity.
"We support House Bill 182 to the extent that it would require a
professional forester to fill the position of Director of the
Division of Forestry, Department of Natural Resources, also called
the State Forester."
Number 0839
CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN commented that the bill says a bachelor's or
higher degree in a forestry-related program and stated there is a
bachelor of art degree and bachelor of science degree. A bachelor
of science is more of a discipline than a bachelor or art. He
asked Mr. Nicolls whether a bachelor of art would be enough to be
a state forester.
Number 0859
MR. NICOLLS replied it would depend on what it is in.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated the bill says a forestry-related program.
MR. NICOLLS replied the criteria in the bill are directly out of
the membership requirements for SAF. They are broadly interpreted
- experience is the lynchpin for membership. It just says
bachelor's degree, it does not specify bachelor of science. It was
intended to be a biological science, but it has not been restricted
to that. He knows of a member who has a degree in theology.
Number 0922
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN noted as well that the degree is not
specified. He wondered whether there could be an environmentally
sanctioned program, for example, that would pass muster.
Number 0953
MR. NICOLLS replied, "I would say so."
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated he is concerned that the bill would
prevent the state from wanting a forester who would promote the
development of a renewable resource like our forests, for example.
MR. NICOLLS replied, "I don't think that would be precluded by
that." The breadth of forestry includes a lot of things beyond
timber management, for example. It is entirely possible that there
are people with forest degrees who could not begin to administer a
timber program. It would come with the screening of the
applicants. The bill calls for basic qualification requirements.
At last count, there are 62 accredited forestry curriculum
programs. There is a large pool of candidates out there. And, all
of the state foresters that he knows would have met the
qualifications.
Number 1048
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Nicolls whether the 62 programs
mentioned are accredited by the SAF.
MR. NICOLLS replied, "Yes."
Number 1075
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the chair would like to have a motion
to adopt the proposed committee substitute.
Number 1082
REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES made a motion to adopt the proposed
committee substitute for HB 182, version 0-LS0627\B, Luckhaupt,
2/10/98. There being no objection, it was so adopted.
Number 1102
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred the committee members to page 1, line
13, "(2) at least three years of field experience in forestry", and
asked Representative Williams whether three years is adequate.
Number 1126
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS replied he believes so. It was also
recommended by the Alaska Society of American Foresters.
Number 1145
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN made a motion to move the proposed committee
substitute for HB 182, version 0-LS0627\B, Luckhaupt, 2/10/98, from
the committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero
fiscal note. There being no objection, CSHB 182(RES) moved from
the House Resources Standing Committee.
HB 310 - UTILIZATION OF GROUNDFISH
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the next order of business was House
Bill No. 310, "An Act relating to the utilization of groundfish;
and providing for an effective date."
Number 1203
AMY DAUGHERTY, Legislative Administrative Assistant to
Representative Alan Austerman, Alaska State Legislature, explained
HB 310 would extend to other groundfish species the current ban in
state law regarding the waste of pollock. It would enable the
Board of Fisheries to require processors to meet minimal standards
for the utilization of other groundfish in addition to pollock,
similar to regulations adopted by the secretary of commerce for
offshore processors. The legislation is necessary because current
state law only prohibits the waste of pollock, not other groundfish
species such as, Pacific cod, rock sole and yellowfin sole.
Pacific cod is already affected by federal law, and rock and
yellowfin sole will go into effect in 2003.
MS. DAUGHERTY explained in the bill packet for the committee
members is an excerpt from the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery
Conservation and Management Act that talks about bycatch reduction.
It is included to point out that bycatch reduction is a step-by-
step process that will be revisited every year for the next four
years. Information from the "Federal Register" is also included
that talks about the improved retention/improved utilization
program and how it has been addressed by the North Pacific Fishery
Management Council.
MS. DAUGHERTY stated, essentially, the catcher boat operators,
required by federal regulations to retain pollock and cod, need the
processors to fall under regulations to require them to take those
products as well.
Number 1339
RICK LAUBER, Representative, North Pacific Fishery Management
Council; Alaska Manager/Vice President, Pacific Seafood Processors
Association, explained the state of Alaska has had a retention
program for pollock for many years. House Bill 310 is an offshoot
of the roe-stripping ban on salmon and other products in Alaska.
Alaska has a philosophy of banning wanton waste and the bill is a
continuation of that philosophy. The council has been attempting
for a number of years to get the offshore factory trawler fleets to
improve their utilization and retention of their waste. An
amendment was passed and approved by the United States Secretary of
Commerce that went into effect this year that requires them to
retain their pollock and cod. In the year 2003 other species will
come to play. This has not been the situation in Alaska for
onshore processors because they fully utilize all species. Thus,
to level the playing field, the council and the state of Alaska
have agreed to bring forth this type of statute. The idea is, as
it moves along, the Board of Fisheries will pass appropriate
regulations requiring fishermen and processors operating inside of
three miles to comply with the same rules that apply offshore.
Number 1481
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Fish and Game, stated the department supports the
bill. The department went through a process of working with the
industry and other interested parties in developing the approach
taken by the state. The need for the bill is because the current
pollock statute does not extend the authority to the Board of
Fisheries to deal with Pacific cod and the other species scheduled
to come on line in the year 2003.
Number 1526
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated there must be a significant amount of
waste now to specify groundfish. He wondered whether dropping the
ground on this would be an act to prevent the waste of fish in
general.
Number 1564
MR. BRUCE stated waste needs to be approached on a species-by-
species basis. There is no known use for the arrowtooth flounder,
for example. If the bill was drafted as broadly as Representative
Green suggested, fishermen and processors would be required to
retain a species for which there is no commercial or other use for
it at this time.
Number 1599
MR. LAUBER stated, currently, Alaska has a roe-stripping ban, with
some exceptions to allow for flexibility. There is a bill that
would terminate the flexibility, however. But, by-and-large,
Alaska has a pretty good record. House Bill 310 calls for state
law to conform with federal regulations. It would not change
anything that is currently taking place in Alaska. He cited
pollock, cod, and other species are being fully utilized by shore-
based plants. There is no discard in the onshore component. There
was discard in the offshore component, but it is beyond the
jurisdiction of Alaska which is why it is handled through the
federal government. There will be full retention of pollock and
cod in the year 2003. Right now, whether the bill passes or not,
there will be no discard of species of any significant amount in
Alaska.
Number 1690
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to bycatch and wondered whether there
is something in the mill dealing with it.
MS. DAUGHERTY replied there is not another piece of legislation
dealing with bycatch right now.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated there is a bill by Representative Ivan M.
Ivan that deals with roe stripping. He does not know of any other
legislation that deals with bycatch, however.
Number 1735
CHRIS BLACKBURN testified via teleconference in Kodiak. She was
part of the group and council that helped develop the improved
retention and utilization regime. We all feel that all vessels,
whether at sea or at shore, should learn to use what they catch and
for the processors to processes what they catch. Kodiak has been
110 percent supportive of this and is very eager that the state of
Alaska, a leader in conservation measures, also makes sure that
this applies to state waters and fisheries. We do not have a
discard problem nor do we want to have one in the future. She also
noted that because of the measure there are factory trawlers in the
Bering Sea now that are making extraordinary efforts to try to stay
out of Pacific cod which leaves more cod to those that are going to
use it.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON called for a motion to move the bill out of the
committee.
Number 1796
REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion to move HB 310, version 0-
LS1347\A, from the committee with individual recommendations and
the attached zero fiscal note. There being no objection, HB 310
moved from the House Resources Standing Committee.
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON called for a brief at ease at 1:50 p.m. to
prepare for an overview.
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