Legislature(1997 - 1998)
02/27/1997 01:20 PM House RES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE
February 27, 1997
1:20 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair
Representative Fred Dyson
Representative Joe Green
Representative Reggie Joule
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ramona Barnes
Representative William K. ("Bill") Williams
Representative Irene Nicholia
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 23
"An Act relating to traditional means of access for traditional
outdoor uses and to the classification and the sale, lease, or
other disposal of state land, water, or land and water."
- MOVED CSHB 23(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
* HOUSE BILL NO. 128
"An Act relating to water quality; directing the Department of
Environmental Conservation to conduct water quality research;
establishing the Water Science Oversight Board; and providing for
an effective date."
- BILL CANCELLED
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 23
SHORT TITLE: PROTECT ACCESS FOR TRADIT'NL OUTDOOR USES
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MASEK
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/13/97 33 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97
01/13/97 33 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/13/97 33 (H) RESOURCES, FINANCE
01/23/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
01/23/97 (H) MINUTE(RES)
02/27/97 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
EDWARD GRASSER, Legislative Assistant
to Representative Beverly Masek
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 432
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2679
POSITION STATEMENT: Explained changes in CSHB 23(RES).
JANE ANGVIK, Director
Division of Land
Department of Natural Resources
3601 C Street, Suite 1122
Anchorage, Alaska 99503-5947
Telephone: (907) 269-8503
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Administration in
support of CSHB 23(RES).
DICK BISHOP, Executive Director
Alaska Outdoor Council
211 4th Avenue, No. 302A
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 463-3830
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 23(RES).
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-21, SIDE A
Number 0001
CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:20 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Hudson, Ogan, Masek, Dyson,
Green and Joule. Absent were Representatives Barnes, Williams and
Nicholia.
HB 23 - PROTECT ACCESS FOR TRADIT'NL OUTDOOR USES
Number 0030
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the committee would hear House Bill No.
23, "An Act relating to traditional means of access for traditional
outdoor uses and to the classification and the sale, lease, or
other disposal of state land, water, or land and water."
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Representative Masek, sponsor, to address
the proposed committee substitute, 0-LS0158\F, Luckhaupt, 2/26/97,
before there was a motion to adopt it.
REPRESENTATIVE BEVERLY MASEK deferred to Mr. Grasser.
Number 0161
EDWARD GRASSER, Legislative Assistant to Representative Beverly
Masek, explained the committee substitute was arrived at following
discussion with the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and
others. "And what we've done is we've taken and placed the
language in parts of statute that already exist," he stated.
MR. GRASSER said access language existed under AS 38.04.055 and AS
38.04.058, dealing with rights-of-way and easements. "And what
we've done is we've added those two sections to the bill," he
stated. "And that's the new Section 2 and new Section 3. And we
eliminated the old Section 2 and old Section 3. And then we did do
some amendments to both of those existing statutes to accommodate
the traditional outdoor activity access that we're seeking."
Number 0242
MR. GRASSER referred to Section 3 and said it incorporated the
traditional-means-of-access language in the original bill, with a
couple of changes. "We added in that the commissioner didn't have
to get the approval of the legislature or meet these other
provisions if the land, water, or land and water encompassed 640
contiguous acres or less," he said. "And we also changed the term
`intrinsic values' which is found on line 12 on page 2 to
`aesthetic values' and redefined that to more closely reflect
Representative Masek's wish to preclude restrictions on access
based on social values rather than on biological or ecological
values."
MR. GRASSER concluded, "The whole bill is now in Chapter 4 instead
of Chapter 5. Chapter 5 has to do with land classifications. And
these sections of Chapter 4 had to do with right-of-ways and
easements and access. And we thought it would better reflect the
intent of the bill by placing the language in those sections."
Number 0342
REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN referred to Section 3, which removed
restriction ability from the director and gave it to the
commissioner. Noting that in most cases the commissioner can
delegate back to the director, he questioned whether that
accomplished anything.
MR. GRASSER said that was basically a suggestion of the drafter in
Legislative Legal and Research Services, which he assumed
accomplished basically the same thing.
Number 0423
CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON said to Representative Green, "I think
that, typically speaking, the constitutional responsibility rests
with the department heads, and then they can delegate it down. But
you hold the department head responsible for the actions."
Number 0461
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to page 2, lines 6 and 7. He
expressed concern about the wording "public and safety and
property." He asked whether private safety and property were
included under `public' or `safety'. For example, if a oil rig
were drilling but someone claimed that area was a traditional
access, what would happen?
MR. GRASSER said that was a drafting glitch and had been discussed
with Jane Angvik of the DNR, who shared similar concerns. He said
Ms. Angvik would offer an amendment for that sentence. He
indicated page 2, line 7, should read "public safety" instead of
"public and safety". In addition, "public or private" should be
inserted between "and" and "property".
Number 0893
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON made a motion to adopt the committee substitute,
0-LS0158\F, Luckhaupt, 2/26/97 as a work draft. There being no
objection, it was so ordered.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked about the DNR's amendment.
Number 0641
MR. GRASSER said Representative Masek agreed to the changes in the
amendment. He referred to page 2, line 7, and explained the "and"
being deleted was a typographical or grammatical error by the
drafters. In addition, he himself had made an error in typing the
amendment; the insertion "public and private" was incorrect and
should instead say "public or private". The corrected version of
the DNR amendment, dated February 27, 1997, read:
Page 2, Line 7 - Delete "and" between "public" and
"safety" and then insert public or private between "and" and
"property."
Page 2, Line 19 - Insert new language under subsection (3) to
read: for protection of public safety and public or private
property. Renumber the existing number (3) and (4) according
[sic] to now be numbered as (4) and (5).
Number 0724
MR. GRASSER said the amendment to page 2, line 19, was "tied to the
public or private property amendment in Section 3, at line 7, page
2."
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN labeled the combined amendment as Amendment 1.
Number 0780
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt Amendment 1. There
being no objection, it was so ordered.
Number 0809
JANE ANGVIK, Director, Division of Land, Department of Natural
Resources, came forward to testify. She indicated DNR had worked
with Representative Masek and her staff on the bill. She said with
the adopted amendments, the Administration was supportive of it.
She explained, "It has separated issues of ownership from this
issue and we are now back to a place where if a legislature
chooses, it can exercise its rights ... to have complete oversight
over those access issues and yet gives us enough flexibility so
that we can protect natural resource development as well as other
kinds of seasonal access issues that have to do with public
safety."
Number 0859
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK requested that the DNR provide a fiscal note.
She asked whether it would be a zero fiscal note.
MS. ANGVIK said that was correct and that they could adjust it.
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN offered to write the zero fiscal note.
Number 0932
DICK BISHOP, Executive Director, Alaska Outdoor Council, came
forward to testify, noting his was a statewide organization of
conservation-oriented outdoor users. He said, "We have in the past
expressed this philosophy as far as public access, and on the state
lands as well as on federal lands. And we really appreciate having
this bill in here. And we supported it last year, felt that it was
the right approach. And we again support it, and we appreciate the
efforts of Representative Masek and her staff to refine it, and to
the Department of Natural Resources for taking a compassionate look
at the issue and working with the sponsor for this. I think that
it has been improved. We appreciate that. And we'd just like to
reiterate the support that we've provided in the past."
Number 0993
REPRESENTATIVE REGGIE JOULE asked how this would impact access for
all-terrain vehicles (ATVs). He mentioned that the land was more
susceptible to scarring in the summer and fall.
MS. ANGVIK said the state would still have the capacity, for
example, to close the North Slope area. There, winter access was
allowed but it was closed during summer to protect the tundra.
Provisions in the law would allow DNR to continue that practice in
order to protect, in particular, the oil field area from ATV use by
"seasonal closures under the public safety and protection of public
and private property."
Number 1081
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE mentioned there were areas around the Wulik
River and perhaps the upper Kobuk River where the tundra might be
affected by ATVs. He asked how this legislation would apply.
MS. ANGVIK said she believed if there were a request to close an
area to protecting the tundra, the DNR would be able to analyze
that under the terms of the bill. "If the area was less than 640
acres in size, we would have the ability to have a seasonal closing
in order to protect the lands," she explained. "If the area
exceeded 640 acres, we could bring it to the legislature and seek
the approval of the legislature. Or if were closed for a seasonal
period not to exceed the limitation that was set out in the bill,
we would have the ability to close it."
Number 1151
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked whether the DNR exercised any authority
on federal land to prevent scarring, for example.
MS. ANGVIK said no. Other than where they already had an easement,
they had no authority to restrict or set any management
prerogatives for that purpose on any of the federal lands.
Number 1239
CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON made a motion that CSHB 23, as amended, move
from the committee with individual recommendations and a zero
fiscal note. He asked unanimous consent. There being no
objection, CSHB 23(RES) moved from the House Resources Standing
Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 1251
CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN adjourned the House Resources Standing Committee
meeting at 1:40 p.m.
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