Legislature(2017 - 2018)CAPITOL 106

03/31/2017 01:00 PM RESOURCES

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Audio Topic
01:05:13 PM Start
01:06:18 PM Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board|| Alaska Board of Game
05:33:03 PM HB134
06:01:06 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Recessed to 5:00 PM --
-- Location Change from Barnes 124 --
+ Confirmation Hearings: TELECONFERENCED
AK Big Game Commercial Services Board
-- Public Testimony --
AK Board of Game
-- Public Testimony --
+= HB 129 FISH & GAME: OFFENSES;LICENSES;PENALTIES TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled but Not Heard
-- Testimony <Invitation Only> --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 134 BOARD OF GAME MEMBERSHIP TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 134(RES) Out of Committee
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 31, 2017                                                                                         
                           1:05 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Andy Josephson, Co-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Geran Tarr, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Harriet Drummond                                                                                                 
Representative Justin Parish                                                                                                    
Representative Chris Birch                                                                                                      
Representative DeLena Johnson                                                                                                   
Representative George Rauscher                                                                                                  
Representative David Talerico                                                                                                   
Representative Chris Tuck (alternate)                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Dean Westlake, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Mike Chenault (alternate)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARING(S):                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Henry D. Tiffany IV - Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                    
     Thomas H. Sullivan, Jr. - Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                
     James A. "Tom" Atkins - Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATIONS(S) ADVANCED                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Board of Game                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Ted H. Spraker - Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                          
     Karen L. Linnell - Glennallen, Alaska                                                                                      
     Thomas K. Lamal - Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                        
     Lawrence J. "Larry" Van Daele, PhD - Kodiak, Alaska                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 134                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the composition of the Board of Game.'                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 134(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 129                                                                                                              
"An  Act   relating  to  sport  fishing,   hunting,  or  trapping                                                               
licenses,  tags, or  permits; relating  to penalties  for certain                                                               
sport   fishing,  hunting,   and  trapping   license  violations;                                                               
relating  to  restrictions  on the  issuance  of  sport  fishing,                                                               
hunting, and trapping licenses;  creating violations and amending                                                               
fines  and  restitution  for  certain  fish  and  game  offenses;                                                               
creating  an exemption  from payment  of restitution  for certain                                                               
unlawful  takings of  big game  animals;  relating to  commercial                                                               
fishing  violations; allowing  lost federal  matching funds  from                                                               
the  Pittman  -  Robertson,  Dingell -  Johnson/Wallop  -  Breaux                                                               
programs  to be  included in  an order  of restitution;  adding a                                                               
definition of  'electronic form'; and providing  for an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 134                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: BOARD OF GAME MEMBERSHIP                                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) JOSEPHSON                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
02/20/17       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/20/17       (H)       RES                                                                                                    
03/20/17       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/20/17       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/20/17       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/22/17       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/22/17       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/22/17       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
03/24/17       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/24/17       (H)       Scheduled but Not Heard                                                                                
03/31/17       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HENRY D. TIFFANY IV, Appointee                                                                                                  
Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                              
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing                                                                   
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development                                                                        
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  as appointee  to  the Big  Game                                                             
Commercial Services Board.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS H. SULLIVAN, JR., Appointee                                                                                              
Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                              
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing                                                                   
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  as appointee  to  the Big  Game                                                             
Commercial Services Board.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
JAMES A. "TOM" ATKINS, Appointee                                                                                                
Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                                              
Division of Corporations, Business and Professional Licensing                                                                   
Department of Commerce, Community & Economic Development                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  as appointee  to  the Big  Game                                                             
Commercial Services Board.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TED H. SPRAKER, Appointee                                                                                                       
Board of Game                                                                                                                   
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  as appointee  to  the Board  of                                                             
Game.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
KAREN L. LINNELL, Appointee                                                                                                     
Board of Game                                                                                                                   
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Glennallen, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  as appointee  to  the Board  of                                                             
Game.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS K. LAMAL, Appointee                                                                                                      
Board of Game                                                                                                                   
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  as appointee  to  the Board  of                                                             
Game.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
LAWRENCE J. "LARRY" VAN DAELE, PhD, Appointee                                                                                   
Board of Game                                                                                                                   
Alaska Department of Fish & Game                                                                                                
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  as appointee  to  the Board  of                                                             
Game.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
GARY STEVENS                                                                                                                    
Chugiak, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Opposed the  confirmations of  Ted Spraker                                                             
and Karen Linnell, appointees to the Board of Game.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SAM ROHRER, President                                                                                                           
Alaska Professional Hunters Association                                                                                         
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported the  confirmations of Ted Spraker,                                                             
Larry Van  Daele, and Karen  Linnell, appointees to the  Board of                                                               
Game,  and  supported the  confirmations  of  Henry Tiffany,  Tom                                                               
Atkins,  and   Thomas  Sullivan,  appointees  to   the  Big  Game                                                               
Commercial Services Board.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT CAYWOOD                                                                                                                  
Chugiak, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Opposed the  confirmations of  Ted Spraker                                                             
and Karen Linnell, appointees to the Board of Game.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
LEWIS BRADLEY                                                                                                                   
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Supported the  confirmation of  Tom Lamal,                                                             
appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MARY BISHOP                                                                                                                     
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed the confirmation  of Karen Linnell,                                                             
appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
NICOLE BORROMEO, Executive Vice President & General Counsel                                                                     
Alaska Federation of Natives                                                                                                    
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported the  confirmations of Ted Spraker,                                                             
Karen Linnell,  and Larry Van  Daele, appointees to the  Board of                                                               
Game.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MARK RICHARDS, Executive Director                                                                                               
Resident Hunters of Alaska                                                                                                      
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Supported the  confirmations of  Tom Lamal                                                             
and Larry Van Daele, appointees to the Board of Game.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE CAIN                                                                                                                      
Glennallen, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Supported   the  confirmations  of  Karen                                                             
Linnell and Ted Spraker, appointees to the Board of Game.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JESSE BJORKMAN                                                                                                                  
Nikiski, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported the confirmation  of Ted Spraker,                                                             
appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
AARON BLOOMQUIST                                                                                                                
Copper Center, Alaska                                                                                                           
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Supported  the  confirmations  of all  the                                                             
appointees to the Board of  Game and Big Game Commercial Services                                                               
Board.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                              
RICHARD BISHOP                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed the confirmation  of Karen Linnell,                                                             
appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO, Executive Director                                                                                                    
Alaska Outdoor Council                                                                                                          
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Opposed the confirmation  of Karen Linnell,                                                             
appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BEN STEVENS, Representative                                                                                                     
Hunting and Fishing Task Force                                                                                                  
Tanana Chiefs Conference                                                                                                        
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Supported  the  confirmation   of  Karen                                                             
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JAMES LOW                                                                                                                       
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported the  confirmation of Thomas Lamal,                                                             
appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
APRIL FERGUSON, Senior Vice President                                                                                           
Bristol Bay Native Corporation                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   Supported the confirmations  of Ted Spraker                                                             
and Karen Linnell, appointees to the Board of Game.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
FREDRICK OLSEN, JR.                                                                                                             
Kasaan, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Supported  the  confirmation   of  Karen                                                             
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CARRIE STEVENS                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Supported  the  confirmation   of  Karen                                                             
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD PETERSON                                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Supported  the  confirmation   of  Karen                                                             
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
WILBUR BROWN, Second Vice President                                                                                             
Alaska Native Brotherhood Grand Camp                                                                                            
Camp President, Sitka Local Camp                                                                                                
Sitka, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Supported  the  confirmation   of  Karen                                                             
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DON HORRELL                                                                                                                     
Glennallen, Alaska                                                                                                              
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Supported   the  confirmations  of  Karen                                                             
Linnell and Ted Spraker, appointees to the Board of Game.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
JESSICA BLACK                                                                                                                   
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION  STATEMENT:     Supported  the  confirmation   of  Karen                                                             
Linnell, appointee to the Board of Game.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:05:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  ANDY  JOSEPHSON  called the  House  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order  at   1:05  p.m.    Representatives                                                               
Josephson, Tarr, Talerico, Rauscher,  Johnson, Birch, Parish, and                                                               
Tuck   (alternate)   were  present   at   the   call  to   order.                                                               
Representative Drummond arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
^CONFIRMATION HEARING (S):                                                                                                      
                    CONFIRMATION HEARING(S):                                                                                  
           ^Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board                                                                       
                     ^Alaska Board of Game                                                                                  
                                                                                                                              
1:06:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON announced  that the  first order  of business                                                               
would be the confirmation hearings  on appointees to the Big Game                                                               
Commercial Services Board  and the Board of Game.   He began with                                                               
the Big Game Commercial Services Board.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:06:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HENRY  D. TIFFANY  IV, Appointee,  Big  Game Commercial  Services                                                               
Board, testified  he has served on  this board for the  past four                                                               
years, so  this would be a  re-appointment.  He said  he was born                                                               
in Fairbanks  and raised primarily  in Anchorage and  Juneau, and                                                               
that he moved back to Alaska about  30 years ago.  A licensed big                                                               
game guide  and outfitter, this year  will be his 29th  year as a                                                               
professional guide.   He stated that  serving on this board  is a                                                               
challenging responsibility, but that it  continues to be an honor                                                               
and learning experience.  There are  very few ways within the big                                                               
commercial services industry  to give back to  the community, the                                                               
industry, and  the state,  he continued, and  that is  the reason                                                               
why  he  originally requested  to  become  more involved  in  the                                                               
process and which eventually led  to his being nominated to serve                                                               
on the  Big Game Commercial  Services Board.  He  acknowledged it                                                               
can  be  a  thankless  job,  but said  it  is  important  to  the                                                               
industry, to  the State of Alaska,  and to the resources,  and to                                                               
all those who benefit and enjoy them.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON asked whether  Mr. Tiffany believes that state                                                               
lands  should have  a concession  system in  a manner  similar to                                                               
federal lands.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. Tiffany  replied yes, he  firmly believes that that  would be                                                               
in the  best interests  of the  state and of  the resources.   He                                                               
said  he is  familiar with  the Guide  Concession Program  (GCP),                                                               
Department  of   Natural  Resources   (DNR),  and   was  present,                                                               
involved,  and  at  the  meetings  when  the  GCP  was  initially                                                               
proposed  and  throughout  its integration  and  then  later  its                                                               
development.   It is probably  one of the single  greatest things                                                               
that  could  happen in  the  foreseeable  future to  benefit  the                                                               
resources, the animals, the land,  and the guides involved in the                                                               
big  game commercial  services industry,  he continued,  and more                                                               
importantly the resident and nonresident hunting public.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:09:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH noted  he is unfamiliar with  the demands of                                                               
the Big  Game Commercial Services Board.   He inquired as  to the                                                               
amount of  time involved in serving  on this board and  how often                                                               
the board meets per twelve-month period.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIFFANY  responded that he  was first  asked to serve  on the                                                               
Board of Game,  but that he respectfully declined  because of the                                                               
time commitment  involved in  serving on that  board.   Since his                                                               
attitude is to do everything to  the best of his ability, he felt                                                               
at the time that either his service  on the Board of Game, or his                                                               
family, or  his business would suffer  if he were to  accept.  He                                                               
was  then asked  to serve  on  the Big  Game Commercial  Services                                                               
Board, which he  was interested in doing because it  is less of a                                                               
time commitment, he  said, but he was very surprised  to find how                                                               
much of  a time commitment  it requires.   Nine members  serve on                                                               
the  board and  some do  more than  others.   It is  difficult to                                                               
average the  number of hours,  he continued, because  many months                                                               
of the year he is in  the field working and not directly involved                                                               
with the board.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIFFANY explained  the board has two big  public meetings per                                                               
year in  March and  December, as well  a teleconference  in July.                                                               
He  said the  chairman has  been scheduling  teleconferences more                                                               
regularly  than in  the past,  and currently  the board  has been                                                               
having   teleconferences   every   two  months   to   deal   with                                                               
disciplinary  actions and  other executive  session matters.   He                                                               
estimated he spends  about three to four hours  a week throughout                                                               
the year working  directly on [board matters].  As  the two guide                                                               
members on  the board,  he and board  chairman Kelly  Vrem review                                                               
(redacted) cases  brought to  the board  by the  investigator and                                                               
offer sanction  recommendations to  the investigator who  in turn                                                               
passes  them along  to the  respondents  and/or their  attorneys.                                                               
Beside the  three normal  public meetings and  the three  or four                                                               
executive  session-type meetings,  he continued,  quite a  bit of                                                               
work   is   done   behind  the   scenes   related   to   sanction                                                               
recommendations and  fielding calls  from people in  the industry                                                               
as well  as concerned people  outside the  industry.  It  is more                                                               
time consuming than he initially  anticipated, he reiterated, but                                                               
now that he has done it for  four years he understands it, and it                                                               
is just  one of the sacrifices  a person makes when  serving on a                                                               
board one cares about.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:14:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH asked  whether the  board's teleconferences                                                               
are held  at Legislative Information  Office (LIO)  facilities or                                                               
outside LIO facilities.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIFFANY  answered that to  date the teleconferences  have not                                                               
been though  LIO facilities, but  have been orchestrated  and set                                                               
up by the board's division.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH noted that HB  129 is before the committee.                                                               
He said  the bill is  by request of  the governor and  includes a                                                               
stipulation he is leery of.   He surmised Mr. Tiffany is aware of                                                               
the  penalties imposed  for  the unlawful  taking  of large  game                                                               
animals  from bears  to wolverines.   He  explained that  Section                                                               
17(b) of HB 129 would amend this  law to say that a defendant may                                                               
not  be ordered  to  pay restitution  if  the defendant  promptly                                                               
reports  it to  the  department  or to  a  state law  enforcement                                                               
officer engaged in fish or  wildlife protection and surrenders to                                                               
the  department  all  salvaged  portions   of  the  animal.    He                                                               
requested Mr. Tiffany's thoughts on this proposed amendment.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIFFANY replied  he has not read HB 129  and cannot speak for                                                               
the  board,  but  based  on the  aforementioned  synopsis  he  is                                                               
willing to  give his personal thoughts.   As a member  of the Big                                                               
Game Commercial Services Board and  as someone who has reviewed a                                                               
great many  cases, he has  observed and  learned how clear  it is                                                               
that  honesty  truly  is  the  best  policy.    When  someone  is                                                               
forthright,  forthcoming,  admits  to  his or  her  mistake,  and                                                               
doesn't try to hide  it, it is a benefit to everyone.   No one is                                                               
perfect, he  noted, at some point  in life every person  has made                                                               
mistakes and probably will in the future.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  TIFFANY stated  violations  should never  be applauded,  but                                                               
when someone  comes forward to  the Alaska Wildlife  Troopers and                                                               
admits guilt  of a violation,  their willingness  and cooperation                                                               
in  coming  forward  should  be  applauded.   The  more  that  is                                                               
demonstrated,  the  more willing  individuals  might  be to  step                                                               
forward.   The animals belong to  the State of Alaska  and to all                                                               
the people, he said,  so it is unclear why it  would be argued in                                                               
HB  129 that  no restitution  to the  state would  be appropriate                                                               
given that  significant resources  in many  different departments                                                               
are  utilized  to  support  wildlife   habitat  and  research  to                                                               
maintain viable,  sustainable populations.   He  said if  he were                                                               
asked to  vote today on HB  129, and based on  the aforementioned                                                               
synopsis and  having not read the  bill, he guesses he  would not                                                               
support  that  particular  clause.   However,  he  added,  it  is                                                               
possible that the  rest of HB 129 is good  but on that particular                                                               
issue, he said he thinks that restitution is due to the state.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:19:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO  observed from Mr.  Tiffany's application                                                               
that he is on the board  of directors for a small family business                                                               
called Control Concepts.   He asked whether this  business has to                                                               
do with big game or is something completely different.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.   TIFFANY  responded   that  Control   Concepts  manufactures                                                               
primarily  [indisc. -  moving of  microphone] for  conveyer belts                                                               
and sonic air horns for agricultural and industrial industries.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO inquired where  Mr. Tiffany has done most                                                               
of his professional guiding within the state.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. TIFFANY  answered that  over the  last 28  years he  has been                                                               
fortunate  enough to  experience most  all the  major regions  of                                                               
Alaska.  He said he  is familiar, comfortable, and experienced in                                                               
Southeast  Alaska,  Central  Alaska,  the  Interior,  the  Brooks                                                               
Range, Northwest Alaska, Southwest  Alaska, the Alaska Peninsula,                                                               
and Kodiak  Island.  During  the past  20 years, the  majority of                                                               
his time has been spent on  the Alaska Peninsula, a bit on Kodiak                                                               
Island, the Interior, and the Brooks Range.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:22:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS H. SULLIVAN, JR., Appointee,  Big Game Commercial Services                                                               
Board, testified  he has lived  in Alaska for  thirty-four years,                                                               
four in  Fairbanks, and the rest  in Anchorage.  He  retired from                                                               
the U.S. Air Force after twenty-six  years, with five of those in                                                               
law enforcement.  He currently works  for the State of Alaska and                                                               
plans to  retire later this year  or early next spring.   He said                                                               
he   has   three   college  degrees   in   management,   business                                                               
administration, and  computers, and is an  information technology                                                               
manager and  data network engineer  by trade.  His  lifelong love                                                               
of hunting  and fishing is  why he came to  Alaska.  While  he is                                                               
not a guide and has never  worked in the industry, he pointed out                                                               
that he  has hunted  many species  in five  other states  and has                                                               
used  guides  and transporters  in  three  different states,  and                                                               
therefore he understands the need for oversight of the industry.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. SULLIVAN  said he has  been a competitive shooter  in pistol,                                                               
rifle,  shotgun, and  archery;  a volunteer  instructor with  the                                                               
Alaska  Department   of  Fish  and  Game   (ADF&G)  teaching  the                                                               
Bowhunter  Certification  Course;  and  a  Wildlife  Conservation                                                               
Officer at Eielson Air Force Base.   He has over 45 years of work                                                               
experience  as  a  supervisor manager  and  project  manager,  he                                                               
continued,  and is  very detail  oriented and  good at  analyzing                                                               
work processes  and regulations  and understanding  their impacts                                                               
and costs.   He further pointed  out that he has  much experience                                                               
in  interpreting and  applying regulations  and laws.   His  work                                                               
experience with  the State of Alaska  includes budgets, personnel                                                               
issues, and information technology  systems, and therefore he can                                                               
contribute to  the board members'  understanding in  those areas.                                                               
Mr.  Sullivan said  he believes  in  the board's  mission and  is                                                               
happy for this opportunity to  do volunteer work in the industry.                                                               
He added that  this board, the Board of Fisheries,  and the Board                                                               
of Game interest him because they  deal with something he cares a                                                               
great deal about.   He requested the committee give  him a chance                                                               
to serve on the board.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  observed  that  Mr.  Sullivan's  application                                                               
talks about  how king salmon were  jumping in the Kenai  River in                                                               
1980  and that  it  would  take really  tough  decisions to  ever                                                               
return to those days.  He  requested Mr. Sullivan to explain what                                                               
he is meaning by these statements.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SULLIVAN replied  that  to  ever return  to  that level  the                                                               
number  of king  salmon  in  that river  would  have to  increase                                                               
significantly  and  probably the  way  to  do  that would  be  to                                                               
restrict taking of  king salmon in some way.   He said he doesn't                                                               
have  the data  to do  that analysis,  so ADF&G  biologists would                                                               
have to  do it.   He further stated  that a lot  of environmental                                                               
factors  are  contributing to  this  as  well.   He  related  his                                                               
experience  in  the  Interior  where  restrictions  were  put  on                                                               
fishing for  grayling.  Everyone  hated and complained  about it,                                                               
but within a couple years  everyone was happy because the numbers                                                               
and size of  fish came back.   While he doesn't know  if that can                                                               
happen with salmon, he would love to see it, he said.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  observed that Mr. Sullivan  answered yes on                                                               
his application  to the question  asking whether he or  anyone in                                                               
his family could be affected  financially by decisions to be made                                                               
by the board to which he is applying.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SULLIVAN responded that if he did  that it was a mistake.  He                                                               
said he does  not have any relatives or family  members that have                                                               
anything to do with the board.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:26:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  asked whether Mr. Sullivan  believes the                                                               
number of board members should be increased from seven to nine.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. SULLIVAN  pointed out that  the Big Game  Commercial Services                                                               
Board is already comprised of nine members.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  asked what unfinished work  Mr. Sullivan                                                               
would  like to  complete  that he  was unable  to  do during  his                                                               
previous term.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. SULLIVAN answered  that this is his first  appointment to the                                                               
board and has only been on the board since March 1.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER asked  what Mr.  Sullivan would  like to                                                               
accomplish while on the board.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. SULLIVAN  replied he would  like to help with  and accomplish                                                               
some organizational  things over  the next year.   He  would like                                                               
for the  board to work on  and simplify many of  the regulations.                                                               
The  board is  in the  process of  re-doing the  examinations for                                                               
assistant guides  and guides, and he  would like to be  a part of                                                               
that.  The biggest thing is  trying to remediate is the debt that                                                               
this board  has.  He said  he is looking forward  to working with                                                               
the board and getting some of these things resolved.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO observed  from Mr. Sullivan's application                                                               
that  he  used to  live  in  Fairbanks, presumably  stationed  at                                                               
Eielson Air Force Base.  He  inquired how long Mr. Sullivan lived                                                               
in the Interior.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SULLIVAN confirmed  he was  stationed at  Eielson Air  Force                                                               
Base  for  four  years  and  then the  Air  Force  moved  him  to                                                               
Anchorage.  He  said he loved being in Fairbanks,  but the winter                                                               
of 1989 convinced him to move south.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:29:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES A.  "TOM" ATKINS, Appointee,  Big Game  Commercial Services                                                               
Board,  testified he  is a  current  member of  the board  having                                                               
served  for about  four  years, and  now he  is  re-applying.   A                                                               
resident of  Alaska for forty-six years  and retired construction                                                               
electrician, he said  he has been flying airplanes  in Alaska for                                                               
almost  forty years.    He  has a  small  air  taxi business  and                                                               
started out  in the guiding  industry as  a packer, then  went to                                                               
work as an  assistant guide, then a class A  assistant guide, and                                                               
then a registered  guide.  He no longer guides  because the years                                                               
have  caught  up  with  him,  he  said,  so  now  he  just  flies                                                               
airplanes.  He added that it has  been a privilege to work on the                                                               
board  and the  biggest  thing is  that many  of  the guides  are                                                               
trying to understand all the rules and regulations.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  noted that the  Big Game  Commercial Services                                                               
Board has  had a substantial  deficit in its fees  collection and                                                               
has been  the subject of a  number of committee meetings,  not in                                                               
terms of  the substance of what  the board does, but  in terms of                                                               
the  board funding  itself.   He asked  whether Mr.  Atkins would                                                               
like to share how that happened and what the remedy might be.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. ATKINS replied he has been  involved with the board for about                                                               
four years.   He  said the board  is very aware  of the  debt and                                                               
there are  different stories on how  this came to be.   The board                                                               
was  sunset for  a while,  he noted,  and part  of the  debt came                                                               
about during  that sunset period.   At this time the  board has a                                                               
very good  investigative staff, plus the  guides and transporters                                                               
have doubled a lot of their fees.   The debt is getting paid down                                                               
and  the hope  is to  have  it paid  down  by the  deadline.   He                                                               
advised  that it  is  not  a real  profitable  business unless  a                                                               
person hits  it big time.   Many of the guides  are small guides,                                                               
he was one of them for  several years, and these small guides are                                                               
getting hit  hard with  all these fees.   However,  he continued,                                                               
they are  dedicated to  the job  they do and  like what  they do.                                                               
The board is  doing its best to  get out of debt  and stay intact                                                               
to look after its membership.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  stated he has  known Mr. Atkins for  most of                                                               
his life and Mr. Atkins has been  a "standup" guide.  He said Mr.                                                               
Atkins makes  solid decisions after considering  everybody else's                                                               
concerns  and  rather  than concentrating  on  what's  good,  Mr.                                                               
Atkins is always standing up for  what's best.  He said he thinks                                                               
committee  members  will all  be  pleased  with Mr.  Atkins'  re-                                                               
appointment.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:34:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  turned attention to confirmation  hearings on                                                               
appointees to the Board of Game.   He advised the committee would                                                               
take  public testimony  on the  appointees to  both the  Board of                                                               
Game and  the Big  Game Commercial  Services Board  following the                                                               
testimony of the appointees to the Board of Game.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:34:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TED H. SPRAKER,  Appointee, Board of Game, testified  he lives in                                                               
Soldotna and  is retired from 28  years of working as  a wildlife                                                               
biologist with  the Alaska Department  of Fish and  Game (ADF&G).                                                               
He  said  he  was  born  in Louisiana,  raised  in  Wyoming,  and                                                               
graduated  from  the  University  of Wyoming  with  a  Bachelor's                                                               
degree in  Wildlife Management in  1970 and a Master's  degree in                                                               
Range Management in 1973.  As  a college student his dream career                                                               
was to  move to Alaska and  work as a wildlife  biologist for the                                                               
state.   He applied  for every  state job  and even  some federal                                                               
jobs  that  were  available,  he  said.    About  a  month  after                                                               
graduation he  was offered a  three-month job with the  U.S. Fish                                                               
and Wildlife  Service in Southeast  Alaska and from there  he has                                                               
never looked back.   That job led to several  more temporary jobs                                                               
and then in 1974 he was offered a permanent position with ADF&G.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER  said his career with  ADF&G was very rewarding.   He                                                               
worked  during  a  time  when  the  department  was  growing  and                                                               
developing  the different  methodologies  for capturing  animals,                                                               
determining  survey   techniques,  and   estimating  populations.                                                               
Additionally, one of  his most valuable lessons  was working with                                                               
the public  due to  there being five  advisory committees  on the                                                               
Kenai  Peninsula.   He  retired  from  ADF&G  in June  2002,  was                                                               
appointed to the Board of Game  in January 2003 by Governor Frank                                                               
Murkowski,  and has  been  re-appointed  by governors  Murkowski,                                                               
Palin,  Parnell, and  Walker.   If  confirmed, this  will be  his                                                               
sixth and final  term on the Board  of Game, he said.   He served                                                               
as the  vice chairman for two  terms and is currently  serving as                                                               
the chairman.  He is 68 years  old, he noted, and while he enjoys                                                               
being on the board and has the  time to keep up with the demands,                                                               
after one more term it will be  time to "hang it up" and complete                                                               
45  years  of serving  in  the  wildlife management  business  in                                                               
Alaska.   He has thoroughly  enjoyed being  part of the  Board of                                                               
Game process,  he added, and he  hopes to serve one  more term to                                                               
give back what he can to the state  that has given so much to him                                                               
and his family.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:39:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  recalled that  at this  year's Board  of Game                                                               
meeting in Fairbanks,  Mr. Spraker advocated for  a proposal that                                                               
would  establish  land-and-shoot  programs for  wolves  in  eight                                                               
[game  management units].   He  asked  whether the  data on  wolf                                                               
numbers  supported the  land-and-shoot program  that Mr.  Spraker                                                               
advocated.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER  replied that historically Alaska  had land-and-shoot                                                               
available until a ballot measure in  1996.  Before that time [the                                                               
board] really  didn't get  too involved.   While there  were some                                                               
predator  control programs,  the land-and-shoot  [program] pretty                                                               
much  took  care of  it.    There  is  so much  contention  about                                                               
predator control,  he said.   Going  back to  land-and-shoot over                                                               
the eight selected areas, not  the whole state, could allow doing                                                               
away  with   some  predator   control  efforts,   he  maintained.                                                               
Predator control  costs ADF&G a  tremendous amount in  staff time                                                               
and in  actual dollars  because of the  high standards  the board                                                               
holds  the  department to  before  adopting  a predator  program.                                                               
Going  back  to  what  was  had in  the  1970's  to  the  1990's,                                                               
especially in those areas that produce  a lot of game and where a                                                               
lot  of people  in the  state  are interested  in hunting,  could                                                               
probably allow  moving away from  some of these  predator control                                                               
costs.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON offered  his understanding  that at  a recent                                                               
Board  of  Game meeting  in  Bethel  the local  advisory  council                                                               
opposed the  wolf predator  control program  there, but  that Mr.                                                               
Spraker advocated it.   He requested Mr. Spraker  to describe how                                                               
that unfolded.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER responded  that throughout his career  with ADF&G and                                                               
his time on  the Board of Game he has  always supported an active                                                               
management program that sometimes  includes predator control.  He                                                               
said he  is very  strong on the  science end of  it and  that the                                                               
board denies  more predator control  programs than  it authorizes                                                               
because it doesn't have all the  science.  As far as the predator                                                               
control issue  discussed in Bethel,  if the science  supports and                                                               
demonstrates that  there is a  need for a temporary  reduction in                                                               
the impact  caused by  predators he has  been very  supportive of                                                               
that across the state.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:43:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  requested   Mr.  Spraker's  opinion  on                                                               
[proposed HB  105] that  would expand  the [Denali  National Park                                                               
and Preserve] area as far as the taking of wolves.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON clarified  [HB 105]  would not  expand Denali                                                               
National Park and Preserve because [the state] cannot do that.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   RAUSCHER,   correcting   his   statement,   said                                                               
[proposed HB  105] would  [expand] a buffer  zone for  wolves and                                                               
requested Mr. Spraker's  thoughts on this idea.   He further said                                                               
the bill  would stop the taking  of wolves in an  area around the                                                               
park and asked whether Mr. Spraker  knows why no wolves are there                                                               
right now.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER answered  he is familiar with [proposed] HB  105.  He                                                               
recalled that  when he first  came on the  Board of Game  in 2003                                                               
the buffer had been  in place for a couple years.   In about 2005                                                               
he voted for it  to stay in place, but not  because he thought it                                                               
made good sense from a  biological standpoint or really protected                                                               
wolves.   Rather,  he  thought  it was  good  to  leave it  alone                                                               
because it  was already in  place, it  recognized the needs  of a                                                               
lot  of  people   who  were  concerned  about   the  buffer,  and                                                               
recognized that  the board needs  to deal with and  represent all                                                               
voices in the state.   Then it came back, he  said, and the board                                                               
put a moratorium on it for six years.   When it came back in 2010                                                               
he had  the same  feelings that from  a biological  standpoint it                                                               
didn't serve  its purpose because,  based on his work  across the                                                               
state  with capturing,  monitoring, and  tracking wolves,  wolves                                                               
are not  contained.  Wolves will  seek out places where  there is                                                               
prey and  other wolves and  they do not  always stay in  the same                                                               
place.   The  2010  vote was  split  3-4 and  again  he felt  the                                                               
sleeping dog  should be left  alone because it satisfied  quite a                                                               
few people.  There were certainly  a lot of people disgusted with                                                               
it, he  noted, and so  the board did  away with  it in 2010.   It                                                               
came back, and the board put another moratorium on it.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SPRAKER  continued,  saying   the  buffer  again  came  back                                                               
recently and  the board  voted it down  unanimously.   The reason                                                               
for  the vote,  he explained,  was  that when  the National  Park                                                               
Service  was last  before the  board  it reported  that about  49                                                               
wolves were  in the park, but  this year the park  has 77 wolves.                                                               
Another interest  the board had was  the revenue, he noted.   The                                                               
board heard  concerns about lost revenues  because wolves weren't                                                               
being seen.   However, the [National Park  Service] reported that                                                               
visitation went from about 400,000  visitors several years ago to                                                               
nearly 600,000  currently.   So, he  said, with  that information                                                               
before him he was unwilling, this time, to support a buffer.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER  advised that he  thinks this issue has  moved beyond                                                               
the scope of  the Board of Game and probably  needs a legislative                                                               
fix to solve it for a long term.   For quite a while, he said, he                                                               
has been  suggesting that there  be some sort of  equitable trade                                                               
either in land or like-kind  opportunities.  With the increase in                                                               
lands to  the national parks and  preserves and to the  U.S. Fish                                                               
and Wildlife  Service, about 25  percent of the sheep  hunting in                                                               
the state was  lost.  This issue could be  solved, and the Denali                                                               
buffer addressed,  he posited,  by negotiating  at a  much higher                                                               
level than the Board  of Game to make some sort of  trade.  It is                                                               
a  complicated question  the  board has  struggled  with for  the                                                               
entire time  he has been  a member, he  said, and he  doesn't see                                                               
any way out other than some sort of equitable trade.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:48:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH  related that the statute  establishing the                                                               
Board of Game states that the  members "shall be appointed on the                                                               
basis of  interest in public  affairs, good  judgment, knowledge,                                                               
and ability  in the field  of action of  the board, and  with the                                                               
view of  to provide diversity of  interest and points of  view in                                                               
the membership."  He inquired  whether Mr. Spraker feels that the                                                               
interests  and  points  of  view  in  the  membership  accurately                                                               
represent those  of the general  Alaska public for whom  they are                                                               
the designees.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER  replied that that  changes between  different boards                                                               
and appointments.  As of a month  ago, he said, the Board of Game                                                               
had seven  individuals, all of  whom were hunters or  trappers of                                                               
varying degrees - some are not  very avid hunters and only one of                                                               
the two  trappers is  an avid  trapper.  At  this time  the board                                                               
doesn't have a  member who is a nonconsumptive  user, someone who                                                               
is not  involved in actively hunting  or trapping.  In  the past,                                                               
both before  he became a member  and while he has  been a member,                                                               
he  has seen  situations where  the  board had  members who  were                                                               
solely  there to  not approve  any hunting  opportunities and  he                                                               
does not think  they were effective board  members, although they                                                               
did get their points across.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER stated  that the best example he can  think of is Ben                                                               
Grussendorf  who was  chairman of  the  board when  he was  first                                                               
appointed  and  a  former   representative  in  the  legislature.                                                               
During his early days on the  board, he said, Ben and Jim Reardon                                                               
were  his mentors.   Ben  was one  of the  best when  it came  to                                                               
representing  the  non-hunting  public,  he recalled.    Ben  was                                                               
always the  person the  public went  to and  talked with  and Ben                                                               
brought  their  points  forward.    Ben  was  brilliant,  did  an                                                               
outstanding job of that, and  really helped to balance the board.                                                               
But, Mr. Spraker  continued, the other part is that  when it came                                                               
to issues where  the board had to dig down  into the science, Ben                                                               
always sided  with the science, even  when it came to  voting for                                                               
predator control.   Ben had  a soft spot  in his heart  for bears                                                               
and  did not  vote  for  predator removal  and  large seasons  on                                                               
bears, but when it came to  others like wolves Ben would evaluate                                                               
the science and  more often than not Ben would  vote for predator                                                               
control.   Ben  is  the kind  of  guy needed  on  the board,  Mr.                                                               
Spraker said.   [Membership on  the board] is beyond  the board's                                                               
purview, however.   It  is something for  the governor  to select                                                               
and the legislature to confirm.   A balanced board is needed, and                                                               
a person  who probably  doesn't involve  himself or  herself with                                                               
hunting would be a benefit to the board down the road.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:53:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  cited the  Constitution of the  State of                                                               
Alaska, Article  8, Section 3, which  states, "Wherever occurring                                                               
in their natural  state, fish, wildlife, and  waters are reserved                                                               
to the  people for common  use."   He asked what  obligations Mr.                                                               
Spraker, as a  member of the board, sees himself  as having under                                                               
that section and article.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER  responded that the obligation  is clear - it  is for                                                               
the maximum  benefit of all  users.  He  noted that Alaska  has a                                                               
subsistence law  and four species  that have a  resident priority                                                               
while the  rest of  the species don't  have a  resident priority.                                                               
Alaska has a  system under its intensive management  law that the                                                               
board  deals with.   Several  issues must  be brought  before the                                                               
board on each decision.  The  board gives residents a priority in                                                               
almost every  case, he said,  and he  has looked this  up because                                                               
this question  has come up several  times.  Of recent,  there has                                                               
been  quite an  effort  to eliminate  nonresident  hunters.   The                                                               
board looks  at all uses.   In the situation of  abundance called                                                               
"Tier I plus," he explained,  there are enough animals to satisfy                                                               
the  state's priority  subsistence needs,  which are  first, plus                                                               
enough to  satisfy the Tier I,  which is all the  residents, plus                                                               
enough to allow some nonresidents.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER  said he  has been  supportive of  the aforementioned                                                               
for  two reasons.    First, across  the Lower  48  and the  world                                                               
Alaska is  regarded as unique  for its hunting  opportunities and                                                               
therefore he thinks Alaska should  be a friendly state to outside                                                               
income that is  brought in.  Nonresidents pay over  70 percent of                                                               
the fees for licenses and tags,  he pointed out.  If nonresidents                                                               
were eliminated  and Alaska  residents had  to pay  everything, a                                                               
resident hunting license  could cost hundreds or  maybe even more                                                               
than a thousand dollars.   Today a resident hunting license costs                                                               
about $35 and  the reason it is so cheap  is because nonresidents                                                               
pay  for  it.   So,  while  he  is  a  very strong  advocate  for                                                               
residents,  he   understands  the  entire  equation   and  thinks                                                               
nonresident hunting is appropriate  when populations are abundant                                                               
enough to allow for it.   The second reason, he continued, is the                                                               
guiding industry, which last year  brought $82 million to Alaska.                                                               
That  money  goes  to  everything from  airplanes  to  hotels  to                                                               
restaurants to guides  to packers to families.   So, nonresidents                                                               
have  a place,  but he  recognizes  that the  residents have  the                                                               
priority.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:56:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  inquired  as   to  what  Mr.  Spraker's                                                               
ultimate goal is [in serving on the Board of Game].                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SPRAKER answered  that his  ultimate goal  includes two  big                                                               
issues that he would like to work  on and see changed.  The first                                                               
big issue before the Board of  Game is the Western Arctic Caribou                                                               
Herd, which  he thinks is  going to be  paramount soon.   He said                                                               
the  board is  trying to  manage that  herd for  200,000 caribou.                                                               
The board's  harvest objective  is 12,000-20,000  since it  has a                                                               
positive Customary  and Traditional (C&T) finding  because of the                                                               
subsistence  in  the  Western  Arctic.   The  amount  of  caribou                                                               
reasonably necessary for subsistence  (ANS) is 8,000-12,000.  All                                                               
these  goals  are  being  met   right  now,  he  said,  but  this                                                               
population has  come down  from 490,000 in  2003.   While caribou                                                               
populations fluctuate, this  downward trend is alarming.   If the                                                               
herd  drops below  200,000,  the  board will  have  to make  some                                                               
pretty tough  decisions on hunting  opportunities in  the Western                                                               
Arctic.  Western  Alaska, he pointed out, is the  place where the                                                               
term  "food security"  is  an everyday  household  concern.   The                                                               
board starting to  restrict these people because  there are fewer                                                               
animals to  fill their freezers  is of dire  concern to him  as a                                                               
board member,  so he  wants to  work with ADF&G  to try  to solve                                                               
some of those issues.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SPRAKER  said the  second  big  issue  before the  board  is                                                               
subsistence in Game Management Unit  13, an issue that started in                                                               
1983.  A very strong Athabascan  Native community is located at a                                                               
crossroads in the highway with  Valdez on one end, the Matanuska-                                                               
Susitna Valley, Anchorage,  and the Kenai Peninsula  on the other                                                               
end, and Fairbanks  on another end.  As a  result of road access,                                                               
about 80  percent of the  people who  hunt in the  Nelchina Basin                                                               
don't live in the Nelchina Basin.   The Athabascans are trying to                                                               
maintain their  customary and traditional lifestyle  like they've                                                               
done for thousands of years in  the midst of all these people who                                                               
come into  their area  to hunt.   The Board of  Game just  held a                                                               
special meeting in  Glennallen, he related, where  he thought the                                                               
board  was  going  to  do away  with  the  community  subsistence                                                               
harvest.  The  system the board put in place  in 2009 has failed,                                                               
he said,  it doesn't  address the objectives  that the  board set                                                               
for  it.   It is  time for  the board  to move  on, which  he has                                                               
stated  publically in  a meeting.    There were  a couple  public                                                               
proposals to  allow the board to  do that, he related,  and while                                                               
the  board made  a few  good  changes, it  didn't get  there.   A                                                               
burdensome paperwork community  subsistence harvest process still                                                               
exists that really  doesn't reach the objectives  it was designed                                                               
to reach.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:01:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KAREN LINNELL, Appointee, Board of  Game, testified her father is                                                               
from Chistochina  on the north  end of  the Copper River  and her                                                               
mother is  from Kake in  Southeast Alaska.   She and  her husband                                                               
hunt, fish, and  gather within the Copper River Basin.   She said                                                               
her primary source of income  is from her employment as executive                                                               
director of  the Ahtna  Inter-Tribal Resource  Commission (AITRC)                                                               
[which  does  business  as the  Copper  River-Ahtna  Inter-Tribal                                                               
Resource Conservation  District].  The commission  has a contract                                                               
with  the  Department  of  Natural Resources  (DNR)  to  do  some                                                               
wildfire protection plans  for three communities, she  said.  The                                                               
commission  also has  a memorandum  of agreement  (MOA) with  the                                                               
U.S.  Department  of  Interior   for  cooperative  management  on                                                               
federal  lands  and  this  MOA  allows for  the  formation  of  a                                                               
subsistence local advisory committee.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LINNELL  noted  she  serves  as a  board  member  to  Ahtna,                                                               
Incorporated,  an  Alaska Native  corporation  that  is a  global                                                               
company providing  construction and integrative services  to both                                                               
government and private sector clients.   She said she also serves                                                               
on two  committees of the  Ahtna board, the Ahtna  Land Committee                                                               
and the  Operations and Improvements Committee,  neither of which                                                               
has  any  financial  interest  in  any  fish  or  game  industry.                                                               
Additionally, she  serves on  the Wrangell-St.  Elias Subsistence                                                               
Resource  Commission (SRC)  where  her term  ends December  2017.                                                               
The SRC,  she explained, provides  a venue for  local subsistence                                                               
users to have input into  the management of subsistence resources                                                               
within the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park and Preserve.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL recognized she may  have conflicts from time to time,                                                               
but said  she will continue  to follow the procedure  outlined in                                                               
Alaska Statute  (AS) 39.52  if conflicts exist,  as she  has been                                                               
doing since appointed by the governor  in November 2016.  She has                                                               
been involved with  the Board of Game and  regulation process for                                                               
over a  decade, she stated,  first by providing  public testimony                                                               
and then  by getting  involved in  her local  advisory committee.                                                               
She  served as  an  officer on  the Copper  Basin  Fish and  Game                                                               
Advisory  Committee, but  resigned  upon her  appointment to  the                                                               
Board of Game.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LINNELL said  she further  served as  chair of  the Wildlife                                                               
Committee  on the  Governor's Transition  Team, a  committee that                                                               
consisted  of   a  diverse  group  of   users,  including  former                                                               
department staff,  guides, subsistence users,  and nonconsumptive                                                               
users.   At the transition  meeting, she said,  committee members                                                               
were able  to come to  consensus in form  of final report  to the                                                               
governor.   She offered her  belief that healthy  populations are                                                               
important to  the sustainability of wildlife  and anybody's uses,                                                               
and that this  needs to be balanced before  worrying about making                                                               
sure users  have access.   "I think that if  we take care  of the                                                               
resource,  it  will take  care  of  us,"  she  stated.   This  is                                                               
something she  has been  taught all her  life, she  explained, so                                                               
that is her goal.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:05:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH  acknowledged  that Ms.  Linnell  has  much                                                               
public  support.   Noting her  involvement with  Ahtna, he  asked                                                               
whether Ms.  Linnell would like  to offer her perspective  on the                                                               
[Klutina Lake Road  public access and the revised  statute of the                                                               
Mining Act of  1866 known as R.S. 2477, an  issue that is ongoing                                                               
between Ahtna, the  State of Alaska, and the U.S.  Bureau of Land                                                               
Management].                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL replied  she has nothing to offer  that would pertain                                                               
to her  position at the Board  of Game.  However,  she continued,                                                               
private property  rights are involved  in this matter  and access                                                               
would  not be  denied to  the river,  but control  of the  access                                                               
would be put in  place.  As the landowner Ahtna  has the right to                                                               
protect that land  and that river.  Of concern  to her is erosion                                                               
and damage to the fish habitat and spawning beds.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  observed from Ms. Linnell's  application that                                                               
she believes  in managing for abundance.   He inquired as  to how                                                               
Ms.  Linnell  sees   that  a  balance  can  be   struck  so  that                                                               
nonconsumptive users can view predators.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL  responded that a balance  is needed.  In  serving on                                                               
the Wrangell-St. Elias SRC, she said,  she has seen both sides of                                                               
the picture  and choosing not  to act  by limiting access  to the                                                               
land and  having requirements to  stay on specific  trails limits                                                               
the access within that park.   Also, she continued, there must be                                                               
a balance  between the  resources.  Not  acting and  not managing                                                               
carnivores damages the  population of ungulates; there  is a fine                                                               
balance  that needs  to be  walked.   She recently  read that  on                                                               
Unimak  Island no  predator control  has resulted  in the  muskox                                                               
declining  to an  all-time  low that  will take  a  long time  to                                                               
rebound.   She comes from  a family  of trappers, she  noted, and                                                               
while she  does not participate in  it she sent her  grandson out                                                               
to  learn  how.    Trapping  provides an  income  to  her  family                                                               
members,  but  the teaching  that  is  passed on  in  traditional                                                               
trapping is  that when too  many females have been  trapped, it's                                                               
time to stop  so that life can be perpetuated.   This teaching is                                                               
for all  the animals that are  being taken - take  what is needed                                                               
and nothing more.   For example, Ms. Linnell  continued, today is                                                               
the last day of caribou season  and her permit is still open, but                                                               
her freezer  is full,  so she  is not  worried about  filling her                                                               
permit and that is the way it should be.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:10:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND,  regarding the lack of  predator control                                                               
on Unimak Island, stated that  predator control must be different                                                               
when  an island  is involved  as opposed  the mainland  where the                                                               
ungulates can roam  and escape.  She asked how  Ms. Linnell would                                                               
have handled that had  she been on the Board of  Game at the time                                                               
predator control was considered for the island.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL  answered that  a similar discussion  was had  at the                                                               
Copper  Basin   advisory  committee.  The  committee   looked  at                                                               
population objectives  along with the populations  of carnivores,                                                               
the wolves, and  determined that a trigger should be  in place to                                                               
prevent  one  population from  getting  so  low that  it  doesn't                                                               
survive.   [It  was  decided  that] if  the  moose dropped  below                                                               
management objectives,  predator control will be  implemented and                                                               
then when  the [moose]  population rises to  a certain  level the                                                               
predator control  will cease.  It  is used as a  management tool,                                                               
she explained,  and those kinds of  things need to be  taken into                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:12:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  concluded that Ms. Linnell  looks at the                                                               
issue of predator control as one where science is needed.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL  replied yes.   Healthy  populations, looking  at the                                                               
terrain, and  what the  land can sustain  are important  parts of                                                               
that.   Habitat  is an  important part  of intensive  management.                                                               
Other  ways  of  doing intensive  management  include  controlled                                                               
burns and  mechanical manipulation  to create  additional habitat                                                               
for additional feedstock.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  requested Ms. Linnell's opinion  on what                                                               
should be the ultimate goal of the Board of Game.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL  responded it is  to have healthy populations  and to                                                               
provide  for  reasonable  opportunity for  individuals  and  that                                                               
there  is not  one user  group  over another.   There  must be  a                                                               
balance in that as well.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  cited the  Constitution of the  State of                                                               
Alaska, Article  8, Section 3, which  states, "Wherever occurring                                                               
in their natural  state, fish, wildlife, and  waters are reserved                                                               
to the  people for common  use."   He asked what  obligations Ms.                                                               
Linnell, as a  member of the board, sees herself  as having under                                                               
that section and article.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL  answered that it is  to provide and ensure  that the                                                               
resources  are  sustainable and  available  for  all users,  both                                                               
consumptive and nonconsumptive.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  requested Ms.  Linnell to explain  how a                                                               
community subsistence harvest program works.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL  replied that  a community  subsistence harvest  is a                                                               
permit that groups can apply  for.  She explained that originally                                                               
the  Ahtna  Tene  Nene  brought  forward a  proposal  to  form  a                                                               
community hunt  that consisted  of members  of the  community who                                                               
weren't necessarily local by location.   While folks from several                                                               
communities throughout the state  participated in that hunt, they                                                               
were members  of that community  by connectivity.  A  lawsuit was                                                               
filed that said  other groups might be eligible,  and others have                                                               
applied and received eligibility to participate in that hunt.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  inquired whether this program  should be                                                               
improved as suggested by earlier testimony.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL  responded yes, she  thinks the actions taken  at the                                                               
recent board  meeting may be  a good step.   There was a  race to                                                               
get to  100 bulls at the  beginning of the season,  she said, and                                                               
now  with  implementation of  the  Tier  II process  within  that                                                               
community subsistence  hunt those  permits can  be doled  out and                                                               
eliminate  that need  to be  the first  hunter out  there to  get                                                               
what's there.  It will lend to an improved quality of hunt.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER acknowledged  receiving many  letters in                                                               
support of Ms. Linnell's appointment.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:17:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON stated  that  she too  has received  many                                                               
letters in support  of Ms. Linnell's appointment.   She noted Ms.                                                               
Linnell's  impressive track  record of  public service  and asked                                                               
how Ms.  Linnell will  deal with  possible conflicts  of interest                                                               
given all the other organizations with which she is involved.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LINNELL answered  that  her current  employer  is the  Ahtna                                                               
Inter-Tribal Resource  Commission.   Upon her appointment  to the                                                               
Board of  Game she stepped  down from  the Copper Basin  Fish and                                                               
Game  Advisory  Committee,  she  noted, and  her  term  with  the                                                               
Wrangell-St.  Elias   Subsistence  Resource   Commission  expires                                                               
December [2017].                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER requested  Ms. Linnell  to elaborate  on                                                               
the meaning of executive conflicts under AS 39.52.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  LINNELL replied  that AS  39.52 outlines  the procedure  for                                                               
declaring a  person's conflicts  of interest  and she  intends to                                                               
abide by this statute.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:19:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON surmised  Ms. Linnell  would not  want to                                                               
step down from her employment to  take a position on the Board of                                                               
Game, and inquired  how Ms. Linnell anticipates  dealing with any                                                               
conflicts of interest that might come up.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL  responded she  isn't sure  because the  Ahtna Inter-                                                               
Tribal Resource  Commission and  Chitina Native  Corporation only                                                               
recently signed the  MOA with the U.S. Department  of Interior to                                                               
create  moose browse  on corporation  land.   That's about  it so                                                               
far, she said, given  it is a new group that  was formed in 2011.                                                               
Work  has  been  done  in partnership  with  ADF&G,  Division  of                                                               
Forestry,  DNR,  the U.S.  Bureau  of  Land Management,  and  the                                                               
National Park Service on a  U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA)                                                               
conservation innovation grant that  is being completed this year.                                                               
This three-year grant, she explained,  was for doing a vegetation                                                               
analysis   across  the   landscape  of   the  Ahtna   traditional                                                               
territory, which goes from Cantwell  to the Canadian border.  All                                                               
available  public  mapping  information  has been  put  into  one                                                               
database that  is being shared with  the aforementioned agencies.                                                               
That  information  was used  to  ground  truthing the  vegetation                                                               
analysis  to enable  better planning  for habitat  improvement on                                                               
Ahtna and Chitina Native corporation lands.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  requested Ms. Linnell to  discuss how she                                                               
sees her association with both subsistence and game hunting.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL answered that traditional  stewardship of the land is                                                               
the main  mission of the Ahtna  Inter-Tribal Resource Commission.                                                               
Habitat  improvement is  being done  to increase  populations and                                                               
have  healthy populations  to provide  food  for Tribal  members.                                                               
She said  she thinks  they can work  hand-in-hand, being  done on                                                               
private lands.   Mechanical manipulation is being done  to try to                                                               
increase forage  for moose and possibly  increase the population.                                                               
To date  about 1,500 acres have  been done and are  being studied                                                               
to ensure that beetle infestation  isn't being encouraged, and so                                                               
far,  it  hasn't.    An  increase in  moose  tracks  as  well  as                                                               
carnivores has  been seen in those  areas, she said, so  it seems                                                               
to be working.   Not enough has  been done yet to know  if it has                                                               
had a  significant impact for  populations, but moose  have moved                                                               
into the area.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:24:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND  offered   her  understanding  that  Ms.                                                               
Linnell's  employer   is  the  Copper   River-Ahtna  Inter-Tribal                                                               
Resource Conservation District.  She  observed that a document in                                                               
the committee packet  states Ms. Linnell has served  as the chair                                                               
of the district since its inception in 2011.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL pointed  out that she put in her  application for the                                                               
Board of  Game three  years ago,  and since  then she  has become                                                               
employed  by the  district as  its executive  director and  is no                                                               
longer the chair.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND offered  her further  understanding that                                                               
Ms.  Linnell's  paid  position is  as  the  district's  executive                                                               
director and that her time as the chair was not a paid position.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. LINNELL responded yes.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:25:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS LAMAL,  Appointee, Board of  Game, informed  the committee                                                               
he lives  in Fairbanks with  his wife.  He  said he was  born and                                                               
raised in Wisconsin  and came to Alaska in  1971 after graduating                                                               
from Regis College in Denver,  Colorado, with B.A. and a teaching                                                               
certificate.   He said  he and his  wife enjoy  hunting, fishing,                                                               
retriever field  trial training,  rafting, cross  country skiing,                                                               
flying, and  gold mining.   His various  jobs have given  him the                                                               
opportunity  to see  and live  in several  parts of  Alaska.   He                                                               
worked as  a surveyor for the  Division of Aviation in  the early                                                               
1970's, giving  him the opportunity  to see the  Seward Peninsula                                                               
and Western  Alaska while  surveying in  bush airstrips.   During                                                               
the pipeline  era he worked staking  the haul road from  Yukon to                                                               
Prudhoe and then he worked on  the mainline.  Surveying also gave                                                               
him  the  opportunity  to  work   on  remote  defense  sites  and                                                               
airstrips in the Brooks Range.   He worked in Southeast Alaska on                                                               
a seine  boat and  fished from  British Columbia  to Juneau.   He                                                               
driftnetted Bristol Bay  and had a Lower Yukon drift  permit.  He                                                               
would drive  his boat from Fairbanks  to the mouth and  drift for                                                               
king salmon,  a 1,000-mile trip one  way.  He had  a Norton Sound                                                               
herring  permit out  of Unalakleet.    Mr. Lamal  said he  taught                                                               
school in Fairbanks  for 16 years, which allowed him  to keep his                                                               
commercial fishing  active.   Working in  the school  system gave                                                               
him the  opportunity to facilitate  the hunter  education program                                                               
in the schools.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAMAL noted  he  is  a life  member  of  the National  Rifle                                                               
Association (NRA) and the Alaska  Wild Sheep Foundation.  He said                                                               
he  belongs to  other outdoor  groups, such  as Ducks  Unlimited,                                                               
Pheasants  Forever,  Fairbanks Retriever  Club  of  which he  was                                                               
president  for  six years,  Resident  Hunters  of Alaska,  Ruffed                                                               
Grouse  Society, Alaska  Airmen's  Association, Alaska  Waterfowl                                                               
Association, and  Clear Sky Sportsmen's  Association.   He served                                                               
on the board  of the Alaska Outdoor Council as  well as the board                                                               
of  Resident Hunters  of Alaska,  and was  also a  member of  the                                                               
Fairbanks  Fish and  Game  Advisory  Council.   He  stated he  is                                                               
honored that Governor Walker has asked  him to serve on the Board                                                               
of Game.  In the last  10-15 years he has been contemplating ways                                                               
to  maintain the  ability  of Alaskans  to  have quality  hunting                                                               
experiences and with  this position he feels he  can be effective                                                               
at maintaining this experience.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:28:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  cited the  Constitution of the  State of                                                               
Alaska, Article  8, Section 3, which  states, "Wherever occurring                                                               
in their natural  state, fish, wildlife, and  waters are reserved                                                               
to the  people for common  use."   He asked what  obligations Mr.                                                               
Lamal, as  a member of  the board,  sees himself as  having under                                                               
that section and article.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMAL replied he would try  to maintain optimum yields.  When                                                               
he commercial  fished in Bristol  Bay there  seemed to be  a good                                                               
harvest year after year and the  fishery was managed well.  While                                                               
it  is not  the  same, game  needs to  be  managed with  predator                                                               
control to keep  the numbers on both sides healthy.   If there is                                                               
lots of moose, there is going to be lots of wolves.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  surmised  Mr.   Lamal  would  be  using                                                               
science for those methods.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LAMAL  responded yes.    Recommendations  are received  from                                                               
ADF&G  and  the Board  of  Game  has  the opportunity  to  decide                                                               
whether it wants to accept or modify those recommendations.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  asked what Mr. Lamal's  reasoning is for                                                               
accepting this seat on the Board of Game.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMAL  answered he  would like to  see Alaska  residents have                                                               
quality  hunting  situations.    He is  a  very  strong  advocate                                                               
through  the   hunter  education  program  to   carry  on  family                                                               
traditions,  he  said,  and  to   make  sure  there  are  quality                                                               
experiences for youth.  Without  providing situations where youth                                                               
have an enjoyable outing they will not  want to come back.  It is                                                               
important  to create  that situation,  so kids  get involved  and                                                               
stay involved.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  inquired as  to how  Mr. Lamal  sees the                                                               
current situation  and the  future situation  in regard  to moose                                                               
and caribou in the Nelchina Basin.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMAL  replied he is not  totally up to speed  on this issue,                                                               
but he drew a caribou permit  there last year and he's never seen                                                               
so  many people.   There  is not  a shortage  of caribou  in that                                                               
area, he noted, but he didn't happen  to see any in the two times                                                               
he went.  However, he did come home with a lot of blueberries.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:32:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH  asked whether, in Mr.  Lamal's estimation,                                                               
the diversity  of interest and  points of view in  the membership                                                               
of the Board of Game are  an accurate reflection of the diversity                                                               
of interests  and points  of view in  the general  population for                                                               
whom he is a designee.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMAL surmised the question  is whether he would consider all                                                               
the different user groups.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH replied yes,  including the user groups who                                                               
are not currently represented.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMAL  responded he  respects all  user groups,  and respects                                                               
people who don't want to hunt  themselves but might enjoy a moose                                                               
burger  or maybe  they're vegetarian.   He  related that  he just                                                               
returned  from  a  month-long photo  and  sightseeing  safari  in                                                               
Tanzania and he  had no desire to go hunting  while there because                                                               
if he harvests something it goes into his freezer.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  observed that on his  application Mr. Lamal                                                               
answered yes to the question  that asked whether the applicant or                                                               
the  applicant's  family could  be  affected  financially by  the                                                               
decisions made by the board.  He requested an explanation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAMAL  replied he  probably shouldn't  have checked  that box                                                               
because there is no financial gain  for him in any way serving on                                                               
the board.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BIRCH  acknowledged that  many letters  of support                                                               
for Mr. Lamal have been received.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:35:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LAWRENCE J.  "LARRY" VAN  DAELE, PhD,  Appointee, Board  of Game,                                                               
testified that  as the son of  an Air Force fighter  pilot he has                                                               
lived abroad  as well  as in  the U.S.   His  father was  sent to                                                               
Galena and King Salmon and came  home with lots of stories, fish,                                                               
and crab, which  tweaked his interest in coming to  Alaska.  Upon                                                               
receiving his Bachelor  of Science and Master  of Science degrees                                                               
from the  University of Idaho, he  and his wife moved  to Alaska.                                                               
He started  as a  wildlife biologist  with ADF&G  in 1981  in the                                                               
first version  of the Susitna  Hydroelectric Project.   He worked                                                               
for  ADF&G for  a total  of  thirty-four years  based in  Kodiak,                                                               
Dillingham,  and Anchorage.   During  that time,  he managed  the                                                               
Round Island  Walrus Sanctuary, the  Mulchatna Caribou  Herd, and                                                               
Kodiak brown bears.   He earned his PhD in 2007  with some of the                                                               
work he did on Kodiak bears.   He has been fortunate, he said, to                                                               
represent the  State of Alaska in  the Northern Forum and  in the                                                               
International Union  for Conservation  of Nature  (IUCN), serving                                                               
on the  expert team for brown  bears.  He has  made several trips                                                               
to  Russia,  Sweden,  Canada,  and   Japan  to  work  with  their                                                               
biologists  and  he  has  brought  their  biologists  to  Alaska.                                                               
During  the  last three  years  of  his  career he  was  regional                                                               
supervisor of  Region II, Southcentral  Alaska.  He also  wrote a                                                               
book on the history of Kodiak bears.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DR. VAN  DAELE said  he and  his wife have  continued to  live in                                                               
Kodiak since his  retirement in September 2015.   Their grown son                                                               
also lives  in Kodiak and works  as a land manager  for the local                                                               
Native  corporation.    Since retiring  he  works  part-time  for                                                               
Koniag  [Incorporated]  assisting  with  development  of  a  bear                                                               
viewing  operation.    He  volunteers  for  the  Kodiak  Electric                                                               
Association to  help analyze the  potential impacts to  bears and                                                               
other  wildlife  from  expanding  the  local  hydropower  plant's                                                               
capacity.   He  noted he  is vice  chairman of  the Kodiak  State                                                               
Parks Citizens  Advisory Board and  helped to write  another book                                                               
about how  to photograph bears.   He  stated that because  of his                                                               
positions  with  ADF&G  he  has  opted  to  refrain  from  having                                                               
memberships or  positions in  organizations that  directly impact                                                               
his decisions.  However, he continued,  he is an active member of                                                               
The Wildlife Society (TWS) as  a certified wildlife biologist and                                                               
of the International  Bear Association [International Association                                                               
for Bear  Research and Management].   He is chairman of  the IUCN                                                               
North Asian  Brown Bear Expert Team,  is a member of  the Alutiiq                                                               
Museum  Collections Committee,  and  is a  member  of St.  Mary's                                                               
Catholic Church and Pioneers of Alaska.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. VAN DAEL  expressed his honor in holding a  seat on the Board                                                               
of Game  and noted the  responsibility of  that.  He  said Alaska                                                               
has provided  him with an  education and many  opportunities, and                                                               
he would like  to offer his talents and services  to the board as                                                               
a way  of giving back  to the people  and wildlife of  the state.                                                               
He noted  that if  confirmed, his primary  goals will  be healthy                                                               
wildlife  populations;  food  security;  economic  opportunities,                                                               
including  guiding  and  tourism;  return  of  state  management;                                                               
revitalization of  the trust by all  groups in the Board  of Game                                                               
process.   To  do  this,  a sincere  stewardship  is needed  that                                                               
incorporates sustainability  and conservation for the  future, as                                                               
well as respect for everyone's needs  and desires.  Of concern to                                                               
him is the polarization that  is being seen in national politics,                                                               
which  is also  creeping into  Alaska.   With that  polarization,                                                               
folks will often belittle opposing views,  and - in his opinion -                                                               
that  is eroding  the country's  democracy and  its society.   He                                                               
offered  his belief  that  it is  the  responsibility of  elected                                                               
officials  and appointed  officials  to boards  to do  everything                                                               
possible to bring  people together and strive  for common ground.                                                               
That will help people understand  and respect each other and that                                                               
is would he would like to try to  do if appointed to the Board of                                                               
Game.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:40:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  requested Dr.  Van  Daele's  opinion on  the                                                               
merits of trapping or snaring of brown bears.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR.  VAN DAELE  replied that  as a  common practice  trapping and                                                               
snaring brown bears  should not be done.  It  is an extraordinary                                                               
method  that could  possibly  be  used when  it  is necessary  to                                                               
reduce bear numbers.   However, he continued, there  are too many                                                               
dangers for both  the bears and for the people  that utilize that                                                               
practice for it to be commonly used in the state.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  remarked that  Dr. Van Daele's  background is                                                               
impeccable  and  incomparable.   He  related  his  understanding,                                                               
however, that  at a  meeting in Fairbanks  earlier this  year Dr.                                                               
Van  Daele  asserted that  people  supporting  the proposed  wolf                                                               
buffer were emotional and non-factual.   He asked whether Dr. Van                                                               
Daele thinks  there was  any merit in  these people's  written or                                                               
oral statements or whether they were just acting out of emotion.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.  VAN DAELE  responded that  that was  a snippet  of a  longer                                                               
comment he  made.   He said  he and most  board members  took the                                                               
time to  read all 300 of  the comments received and  to read that                                                               
there were  about 18,000  others interested  in the  wolf buffer.                                                               
His main concern is the  need to work together with science-based                                                               
facts.  Emotions  are legitimate, he said, but  when dealing with                                                               
wildlife populations  that are shared  for the beneficial  use of                                                               
everyone  in  the  state,  facts  must  be  weighed  as  well  as                                                               
emotions.   Several commenters from  both sides were  not relying                                                               
on facts.   For example,  statements were made that  wolf numbers                                                               
in Denali National Park and Preserve  are declining.  But that is                                                               
not a fact.  As Mr.  Spraker stated, wolf numbers are increasing,                                                               
and the  National Park  Service told Board  of Game  members that                                                               
the only wolves  it was concerned about were  the few individuals                                                               
that  left the  park  and  went into  the  Stampede buffer  area.                                                               
Also, he  said, statements were  made that people  weren't coming                                                               
to Denali National Park and  Preserve, resulting in economic loss                                                               
because of the  wolves not being visible.  But,  according to the                                                               
National Park  Service, more people  were coming than had  in the                                                               
past.  Further, he continued, the  Board of Game heard that there                                                               
was  a  lot  of  communication  between  the  local  people,  the                                                               
National Park  Service, and folks  who wanted to see  more wolves                                                               
around, but the board did  not hear that consistently from folks.                                                               
Perhaps "emotion"  was not  the proper word  to use,  he allowed,                                                               
but  he was  trying  to relate  that  in order  to  get past  the                                                               
rhetoric and  the feelings  of people, facts  must be  looked at,                                                               
ideas  shared, and  unique  ways  be found  to  satisfy the  many                                                               
desires of  people.  Alaska's  constitution says to work  for the                                                               
maximum benefit  for the people of  the state, so the  board will                                                               
be  looking at  preferences  among beneficial  uses  and as  much                                                               
factual information as it can.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:44:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   PARISH  inquired   whether,  when   speaking  of                                                               
beneficial  uses,  Dr. Van  Daele  is  including consumptive  and                                                               
nonconsumptive uses, or strictly consumptive.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. VAN DAELE answered it is  evident that it is both consumptive                                                               
and nonconsumptive.   He  pointed out  that for  consumptive uses                                                               
such as  hunting, trapping, and  fishing, very  tight regulations                                                               
and short  seasons are  set, and  these are  put into  effect via                                                               
lots of time  in board and legislative  meetings.  Nonconsumptive                                                               
uses  are   something  everyone   enjoys  doing,   he  continued.                                                               
Everyone loves  seeing an eagle  or a  moose.  However,  not much                                                               
time is  spent in legislating  or regulating  what nonconsumptive                                                               
use is.   For example,  bear watching is done  at a time  of year                                                               
when the bears  are most vulnerable because it is  done when they                                                               
are  looking  for  food and  it  is  done  on  a portion  of  the                                                               
population  that  is most  vulnerable,  usually  sows with  cubs.                                                               
Yet, that is not regulated much.   That is something the Board of                                                               
Game  could  spend more  time  doing,  he  advised,  as it  is  a                                                               
beneficial  use and  something  [the board  members]  need to  be                                                               
cognizant of as stewards of the state's resources.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  requested   Dr.  Van  Daele's  thoughts                                                               
regarding the hunts in the Nelchina area.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. VAN  DAELE replied that  like Mr.  Spraker, he too  went into                                                               
that meeting thinking that the  community subsistence harvest was                                                               
something the  board needed to  get rid of.   But, the  deeper he                                                               
looked into it  and the more he heard testimony  from both sides,                                                               
the  more he  saw that  this  was a  situation where  fortunately                                                               
there are  a lot of moose  and caribou.  However,  there are many                                                               
people who  want to share  that resource.   With the  tools given                                                               
through  statute,  the  board  felt  that,  yes,  this  community                                                               
subsistence harvest  could work but  it needs  to be worked  in a                                                               
way that is fair to everyone.   Quite frankly, he continued, some                                                               
folks  are "gaming  the system"  and pushing  the limits  of what                                                               
should  be  and shouldn't  be  allowed.    Also, some  folks  are                                                               
interested in  the legal aspect  of it,  as much as  the resource                                                               
aspect of  it.  So,  the Board of  Game tried to  craft something                                                               
that would  be fair to all.   It didn't make  everyone happy, but                                                               
the board did the best it  could.  It provided an opportunity for                                                               
folks who  were truly community  - a  community being a  group of                                                               
people who  have a  vested interest in  spending time  looking to                                                               
that  resource, who  need that  resource, and  with more  than 25                                                               
people  in  the group  -  and  blending  that  with the  Tier  II                                                               
opportunity for  a certain segment  of the moose  population that                                                               
is not  usually hunted.   The board  crafted something  that will                                                               
work  to  the benefit  of  the  people  and  the benefit  of  the                                                               
resource, he said,  but it is a work in  progress given that this                                                               
issue  has been  ongoing  for 30  years.   The  board will  again                                                               
address  this issue  at its  Region IV  meeting next  winter.   A                                                               
sincere effort was made to make it work for everyone.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:49:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  opened public testimony on  the appointees to                                                               
the Big Game Commercial Services Board and the Board of Game.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:50:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GARY STEVENS testified in opposition  to Board of Game appointees                                                               
Ted Spraker and Karen Linnell.   He noted Mr. Spraker has been on                                                               
this board for over 14 years  and that one of Mr. Spraker's goals                                                               
to complete before retiring from the  board is to fix the mess in                                                               
Game  Management Unit  13.   He  expressed his  opinion that  Mr.                                                               
Spraker has worked  a long time to create a  rural and perhaps go                                                               
so  far as  a racial  priority for  moose and  caribou.   But, he                                                               
said, this is  not allowed by the state  constitution.  Regarding                                                               
the wolf buffer at Denali,  he stated that the federal government                                                               
should  transfer  more  land  to  the State  of  Alaska  for  the                                                               
contracts rather  than the other way  around.  The more  the size                                                               
of the  park is increased the  more the wolves will  expand until                                                               
eventually the  state will be a  national park.  He  said he also                                                               
opposes   the  confirmation   of  Karen   Linnell.     Given  her                                                               
affiliations and past  experience, he opined, she  is basically a                                                               
career   advocate   for   Alaska   Native   priority   which   is                                                               
unconstitutional under  the state constitution.   He opined there                                                               
is  no way  Ms. Linnell  can be  unbiased in  her opinions.   Mr.                                                               
Stevens  said six  of the  seven  current Board  of Game  members                                                               
reside  in subsistence  areas, while  only  one lives  in a  non-                                                               
subsistence area.   He offered  his belief that it  is reasonable                                                               
to expect there be more  than one member from Anchorage, Wasilla,                                                               
Palmer, or Matanuska-Susitna area.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:53:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SAM  ROHRER, President,  Alaska Professional  Hunters Association                                                               
(APHA),  testified in  support of  Board of  Game appointees  Ted                                                               
Spraker,  Larry Van  Daele,  and  Karen Linnell.    He said  APHA                                                               
represents the  big game guiding  industry in Alaska and  is made                                                               
up of both rural and nonrural  guides who are by and large Alaska                                                               
residents.   [APHA]  supports sound  wildlife management  and the                                                               
wise use  of Alaska's resources.   [APHA] supports Board  of Game                                                               
members  who  put  conservation  first, who  are  fair  and  open                                                               
minded, who are  accessible to the public, and who  have a desire                                                               
to serve  both the public  and Alaska's  wildlife.  He  said APHA                                                               
strongly feels that  Mr. Spraker, Dr. Van Daele,  and Ms. Linnell                                                               
are  such  people  and  for these  reasons  APHA  supports  their                                                               
confirmations.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. ROHRER testified  in support of Big  Game Commercial Services                                                               
Board appointees Henry Tiffany,  Tom Atkins, and Thomas Sullivan.                                                               
He  said  Mr.  Tiffany  and  Mr.  Atkins  are  respected  in  the                                                               
industry,  knowledgeable of  the industry,  and experienced  with                                                               
the  regulatory  process, and  for  these  reasons APHA  supports                                                               
their confirmations.   He  stated he has  never met  Mr. Sullivan                                                               
and  knows little  about him,  but that  Mr. Sullivan's  previous                                                               
work experience  should be beneficial  to his work on  the board.                                                               
Given  the  board has  had  some  challenges with  administrative                                                               
items, and it seems that  Mr. Sullivan's previous work experience                                                               
would  be  helpful in  resolving  those  issues; therefore,  APHA                                                               
supports his confirmation.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND  asked whether  Mr. Rohrer  is expressing                                                               
his organization's opinion or is representing himself.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ROHRER replied  he is  representing the  Alaska Professional                                                               
Hunters Association and his testimony was APHA's testimony.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:55:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT CAYWOOD testified  he served for over twelve  years on the                                                               
Anchorage  Fish  and  Game  Advisory  Committee.    He  said  the                                                               
advisory  committee  dissolved because,  for  a  majority of  the                                                               
members, the Board of Fisheries and  the Board of Game did not do                                                               
what the people of Alaska want.   There were instances, he noted,                                                               
where all  the advisory committees  in the state voted  against a                                                               
proposal,  yet Mr.  Spraker still  pushed  the proposal  through.                                                               
Board members are needed who will  look out for Alaskans, not for                                                               
special interest people,  he stated.  He offered  his belief that                                                               
Ms. Linnell would also be a special interest person.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:56:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LEWIS BRADLEY testified  he is a retired  schoolteacher and coach                                                               
from the Matanuska-Susitna Borough  School District and a 45-year                                                               
resident of  Alaska.   He noted  he served on  the Board  of Game                                                               
from 2008-2011 and  that during this time Tom  Lamal testified on                                                               
different issues.   He  said Mr. Lamal  was very  concerned about                                                               
Alaska's wildlife resources  and how they were  managed, and that                                                               
because of  Mr. Lamal's  service on the  Fairbanks Fish  and Game                                                               
Advisory Committee  he is informed  on issues  involving wildlife                                                               
and understands  the Board  of Game process.   He  has personally                                                               
met Mr. Lamal,  he continued, and Mr. Lamal  is openminded, fair,                                                               
and  honestly seeks  solutions to  issues that  are best  for the                                                               
wildlife.   He  related  that Mr.  Lamal once  said  to him  that                                                               
listening to all sides of an  issue is very important in order to                                                               
make  informed  decisions.    Mr.  Lamal's  involvement  in  many                                                               
organizations shows he is a  well-rounded individual with diverse                                                               
interests.    Mr. Lamal's  service  with  the Fairbanks  advisory                                                               
committee is very important because  the advisory committee deals                                                               
with all  the issues that the  Board of Game will  be faced with.                                                               
Additionally, Mr. Lamal  has many older friends  in the Fairbanks                                                               
area  who have  a great  deal  of history  behind them  regarding                                                               
hunting in Alaska, and Mr.  Lamal highly values history and those                                                               
individuals  who have  influenced  Alaska over  the past  60-plus                                                               
years.    Mr.  Bradley  urged that  Mr.  Lamal's  appointment  be                                                               
confirmed,  adding  that  Mr. Lamal's  work  ethic,  respect  for                                                               
others'  opinions, and  willingness to  listen make  him a  great                                                               
candidate to  serve as  a Board of  Game member  representing all                                                               
Alaskans.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:59:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARY BISHOP testified  in opposition to the  appointment of Karen                                                               
Linnell  to the  Board of  Game.   She said  her question  to Ms.                                                               
Linnell is whether, as a Board  of Game member, she will be loyal                                                               
to the mission of the  Ahtna-Department of Interior memorandum of                                                               
agreement (MOA)  or loyal to  the state's constitution,  given it                                                               
cannot be  both ways.   The constitution  states all  persons are                                                               
equal and entitled  to equal rights and  opportunities, she said.                                                               
By contrast, the  MOA in Article III d) requires  [Ahtna] and the                                                               
federal government to work together  towards the goal of wildlife                                                               
harvest  permits  available  to  only  Ahtna  Tribal  members  on                                                               
federal public  lands of the  immense Nelchina Basin area.   That                                                               
is above and  beyond the federal rural  priority, she maintained,                                                               
and  it is  a priority  for Cantwell  Tribal members  over Nenana                                                               
Tribal  members.    It's  a priority  for  Ahtna  Village  Tribal                                                               
members  over  neighboring  Tetlin  Tribal  members.    Ahtna  is                                                               
rightly free  to lease its  substantial private land  holdings in                                                               
the  area to  professional hunting  guides for  their nonresident                                                               
clients.   The MOA in  Article IV  states that nothing  herein is                                                               
intended  to  conflict with  federal,  state,  or local  laws  or                                                               
regulations.   She said she  wishes it would say  "nothing herein                                                               
is  intended  to  add  to  arguments  for  the  [indisc.]  Indian                                                               
community and Indian country."                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
3:01:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NICOLE  BORROMEO, Executive  Vice  President  & General  Counsel,                                                               
Alaska   Federation  of   Natives  (AFN),   testified  that   the                                                               
confirmation process is  important to the Native  community.  She                                                               
offered  AFN's  support for  the  confirmations  of Ted  Spraker,                                                               
Karen Linnell,  and Larry Van  Daele to the  Board of Game.   She                                                               
said Mr. Spraker has proven  himself an exemplary member from the                                                               
time of  his initial 2003  appointment to  the board; is  an avid                                                               
hunter,  fisher, and  trapper; is  committed to  the conservation                                                               
and  development   of  Alaska's  resources.     Mr.  Spraker  has                                                               
responsibly   stewarded  the   board  through   many  challenging                                                               
discussions during his  tenure.  She stated that  Ms. Linnell has                                                               
proven  herself to  be  an  emerging leader  on  the board  since                                                               
Governor Walker  appointed her last  November.  Ms. Linnell  is a                                                               
lifelong  hunter and  fisher for  subsistence purposes,  which is                                                               
important, and  for over  a decade  has worked  on fish  and game                                                               
management  issues  in the  Copper  River  region.   Ms.  Linnell                                                               
provides a voice on the board  that needs to be heard, along with                                                               
her philosophy of  taking care of the resources so  they can take                                                               
of the people.  Dr. Van  Daele, she continued, shares many of the                                                               
same qualities  as Mr. Spraker  and Ms.  Linnell and the  AFN has                                                               
been impressed  by his eagerness  to work with the  Alaska Native                                                               
community and  with Alaskans statewide  on fish and  game issues.                                                               
She urged that their appointments be confirmed.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:03:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK RICHARDS,  Executive Director,  Resident Hunters  of Alaska,                                                               
testified in support  of the appointments of Tom  Lamal and Larry                                                               
Van  Daele to  the  Board of  Game.   He  said  Mr. Lamal's  long                                                               
involvement  in wildlife  management and  conservation issues  is                                                               
how he has come  to know him.  Mr. Lamal will be  an asset to the                                                               
board  because of  his  personal experience  across  Alaska as  a                                                               
fisher and  hunter, schoolteacher,  dog trainer, board  member of                                                               
several hunting  organizations, and member of  the Fairbanks Fish                                                               
and Game  Advisory Committee.   Mr.  Lamal will  be able  to step                                                               
right in because he knows the  process and how it works, and will                                                               
listen and  encourage informed  debate on all  sides.   He stated                                                               
that Dr. Van  Daele has already stepped right in  at the Board of                                                               
Game table, showing his long experience  on the other side of the                                                               
table  as a  fish and  game biologist  and supervisor.   Dr.  Van                                                               
Daele is an asset and his experience and knowledge are profound.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
3:05:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE CAIN  testified in support  of Karen  Linnell's appointment                                                               
to the  Board of Game.   He said  she is a  consensus-builder, is                                                               
willing to listen to all sides,  and does the work necessary.  He                                                               
also  offered  his support  for  Ted  Spraker, stating  that  Mr.                                                               
Spraker has been a great chairman.   He said he usually disagrees                                                               
with  what  Mr. Spraker  is  proposing,  but  respects him.    He                                                               
posited that most  people disagree with Mr.  Spraker because fish                                                               
and game issues are very contentious,  but stated that in the end                                                               
the results  produced from  the board's  decisions have  been the                                                               
best that could be made.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:07:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JESSE  BJORKMAN testified  in  favor of  the  appointment of  Ted                                                               
Spraker to the Board  of Game.  He said he  has known Mr. Spraker                                                               
for years  and while he  doesn't always agree with  Mr. Spraker's                                                               
positions on  issues or the  way Mr. Spraker rules  on something,                                                               
Mr. Spraker is a voice  of reason, common sense, and conservation                                                               
on the  board.  Mr. Spraker  listens to people who  have concerns                                                               
and then  adjudicates decisions based on  scientific evidence and                                                               
provides for a  balanced and measured approach on the  board.  As                                                               
a  biologist  by  trade,  he continued,  Mr.  Spraker  knows  his                                                               
biology, the  state's resources,  and relates to  those resources                                                               
in a  special and pertinent way  to the people of  Alaska and all                                                               
user groups.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:09:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AARON BLOOMQUIST testified in support  of the confirmation of all                                                               
the  appointees  to  the  Board  of Game  and  to  the  Big  Game                                                               
Commercial Services Board.   He said he knows  all the appointees                                                               
in some  way and all  are well-qualified with each  person having                                                               
their own philosophy.   Philosophies should be  mitigated to some                                                               
extent among  these qualified people  as long as they  are honest                                                               
people.   For example, he  continued, at  the last Board  of Game                                                               
meeting he  disagreed with  Dr. Van  Daele and  Ms. Linnell  on a                                                               
proposal that he submitted regarding  a different way to go about                                                               
the community hunt.   The proposal didn't go his  way, but at the                                                               
same time  people with  high integrity  were in  the room  and he                                                               
does not hold that against  them.  Both appointees provided great                                                               
discussion, he said, and they are  the two best new board members                                                               
he  has seen  during his  many years  dealing with  the Board  of                                                               
Game.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:11:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD  BISHOP testified  in opposition  to the  confirmation of                                                               
Karen Linnell,  appointee to  the Board of  Game.   He maintained                                                               
that  due to  her responsibilities  in the  Ahtna community,  Ms.                                                               
Linnell has an  intractable conflict of interest  with the duties                                                               
and obligations  of a  Board of  Game member.   As  the executive                                                               
director  of  the  Ahtna Inter-Tribal  Resource  Commission,  Ms.                                                               
Linnell signed  her approval of  a memorandum of  agreement (MOA)                                                               
between  the   Ahtna  Commission  and  the   U.S.  Department  of                                                               
Interior.    He stated that the Ahtna Commission  is comprised of                                                               
representatives from  Ahtna, Incorporated, eight Tribes,  and one                                                               
village  corporation.   The MOA  anticipates  establishing a  new                                                               
federal   Ahtna   cooperative   structure   under   the   federal                                                               
subsistence  board  for  regulation  of  management  and  harvest                                                               
allocation of  moose, caribou,  other game,  and fish  on federal                                                               
lands adjacent  to lands  of Ahtna,  Incorporated, and  the eight                                                               
villages with  Tribal representation.   He maintained that  a new                                                               
structure would  basically shut  out the  State of  Alaska's game                                                               
management,  Board   of  Game,   and  state   advisory  committee                                                               
structure and  process, on federal  lands in this area  and would                                                               
impair  state management  on adjacent  state  and private  lands.                                                               
Allocation of  harvests would favor  Tribal members of  the eight                                                               
villages  in what  amounts to  a racial  priority on  top of  the                                                               
existing federal rural subsistence priority.   These goals of the                                                               
U.S. Department  of Interior and the  Ahtna Inter-Tribal Resource                                                               
Commission  are  substantially  inconsistent with  the  State  of                                                               
Alaska's  constitutional   and  statutory   responsibilities  and                                                               
authorities.   He reiterated  his belief that  Ms. Linnell  as an                                                               
official  proponent of  the  MOA has  a  fundamental conflict  of                                                               
interest in  relation to the  duties and obligations of  a member                                                               
of the Board of Game.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:13:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The House Resources Standing Committee  recessed at 3:14 p.m., to                                                               
be continued at 5:00 p.m.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:01:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON called the  House Resources Standing Committee                                                               
meeting back  to order at  5:01 p.m.   Representatives Josephson,                                                               
Drummond,  Johnson, Talerico,  Parish, Rauscher,  and Birch  were                                                               
present  at  the  call  back  to  order.    Representatives  Tuck                                                               
(alternate) and Tarr arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON   resumed  public  testimony   regarding  the                                                               
confirmations of Henry Tiffany,  Thomas Sullivan, and Tom Atkins,                                                               
appointees to  the Big  Game Commercial  Services Board,  and the                                                               
confirmations of  Ted Spraker, Karen  Linnell, Thomas  Lamal, and                                                               
Larry Van Daele, appointees to the Board of Game.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:02:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROD  ARNO,  Executive  Director, Alaska  Outdoor  Council  (AOC),                                                               
maintained  that  the November  2016  agreement  signed by  Karen                                                               
Linnell  as  the executive  director  of  the Ahtna  Inter-Tribal                                                               
Resource Commission puts  her in direct conflict  with the Alaska                                                               
Constitution  and  the   fish  and  game  laws   enacted  by  the                                                               
legislature.   He said the  agreement, ["Memorandum  of Agreement                                                               
Between  the  United  States Department  of  Interior  and  Ahtna                                                               
Inter-Tribal Resource Commission for  a Demonstration Project for                                                               
Cooperative Management  of Customary and  Traditional Subsistence                                                               
Uses in  the Ahtna Region,"] formalizes  a management partnership                                                               
between the U.S. Department of  Interior and the Ahtna Commission                                                               
for the allocation and the harvest  of moose and caribou by rural                                                               
residents of  Native villages in  the Ahtna region.   However, he                                                               
continued,  it   is  the  Board   of  Game,  authorized   by  the                                                               
legislature, which is empowered to allocate moose and caribou.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO  stated that  at a  [1/17/17] Federal  Subsistence Board                                                               
meeting  Ms.  Linnell  complained  about being  treated  as  just                                                               
members  of  the public  before  the  Board  of  Game.   But,  he                                                               
continued, AOC contends  that Ms. Linnell and her  members of the                                                               
Ahtna villages are members of the public.    He said the state is                                                               
guided by the constitutional mandates  of common use equal access                                                               
to a  natural resource for  the benefit  of all Alaskans  and not                                                               
for the  allocation of  a particular race  or exclusive  group of                                                               
people.   He argued that Ms.  Linnell cannot on one  hand seek to                                                               
erode  the state's  constitutional principles  through agreements                                                               
with the  federal government while  on the other hand  purport to                                                               
defend the  state's constitutional  principles.  He  related that                                                               
at  the Federal  Subsistence  Board meeting,  Ken Lord,  Interior                                                               
Solicitor for  the U.S. Department  of Interior, stated  that the                                                               
MOA is  not intended to  be the end of  the process but  rather a                                                               
start of something  bigger.  If that is the  case, Mr. Arno said,                                                               
there should be a red flag  to the committee and to every Alaskan                                                               
who believes  in equality  under the  law.  He  said Mr.  Lord is                                                               
referring  to the  management of  inholdings,  lands adjacent  to                                                               
conservation system units, and Ahtna  lands, and applying it also                                                               
to fish.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARNO  posited that  the  MOA  with  the U.S.  Department  of                                                               
Interior  defines the  goals of  the Ahtna  Inter-Tribal Resource                                                               
Commission.  He said Ms.  Linnell has demonstrated that her Ahtna                                                               
interests  squarely  conflict  with  the  obligations  under  the                                                               
Alaska  Constitution.     While  AOC  recognizes   Ms.  Linnell's                                                               
dedicated  service to  the  Ahtna  region and  the  goals of  her                                                               
people,  he added,  her  position as  executive  director of  the                                                               
Ahtna Inter-Tribal  Resource Commission  in pursuit of  Tribal or                                                               
racially-based  management  and  allocation of  public  resources                                                               
disqualifies her for service on the Board of Game.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
5:06:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON stated he doesn't  agree with anything said by                                                               
Mr. Arno.  He said he isn't an  expert in this issue, but that he                                                               
has  studied  it, including  taking  a  course on  Alaska  Native                                                               
rights and Tribal  courts at the University  of Alaska Anchorage.                                                               
There  is a  supremacy clause,  he  noted, and  under the  Alaska                                                               
National Interest  Lands Conservation  Act (ANILCA),  the supreme                                                               
law  of the  land,  there  are subsistence  rights.   People  are                                                               
allowed to meld  their duty to the constitution  and their rights                                                               
under federal  law and it  happens all  the time.   Currently, he                                                               
said, co-management is  being done in the Bethel area  as well as                                                               
the Ahtna region.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARNO responded  that Co-Chair  Josephson's understanding  is                                                               
foggy  because  there  is  no  place that  allows  for  a  racial                                                               
preference.   In  following  history back  to  the Alaska  Native                                                               
Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA) and  the negotiations of Title VIII                                                               
of ANILCA,  he said, a rural  priority was established.   The MOA                                                               
is just with the Ahtna  Inter-Tribal Resource Commission and is a                                                               
racial priority, he  argued.  "You watch how  quickly the Federal                                                               
Subsistence Board follows through with this MOA," he stated.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied that after  the John v. Baker decision                                                             
of  1999, written  by Dana  Fabe, a  string of  decisions/rulings                                                               
have been  made that  infuse Tribes  with additional  rights, and                                                               
that is what is being seen here.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARNO   maintained  that  the  Alaska   Supreme  Court  would                                                               
vehemently disagree with Co-Chair Josephson.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON remarked that  she finds it highly unusual                                                               
to  have  the  aforementioned exchange  with  someone  testifying                                                               
before the committee.  She  offered her appreciation for Mr. Arno                                                               
stating his opinion.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  stated the  context is  that some  calls from                                                               
earlier today regarding Ms. Linnell he found inappropriate.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:09:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BEN  STEVENS, representative,  Hunting  and  Fishing Task  Force,                                                               
Tanana  Chiefs Conference  (TCC), testified  in support  of Karen                                                               
Linnell's  appointment  to  the  Board  of Game.    He  said  Ms.                                                               
Linnell's   perspective,  experience,   knowledge,  skills,   and                                                               
abilities are  appropriate for resource management  at this time.                                                               
Ms. Linnell's  experience and attention to  the state's resources                                                               
and all  of the state's  people are sorely needed,  he continued.                                                               
Instead  of  pillorying her  experience,  it  should be  embraced                                                               
because that type  of diversity is needed at this  time.  He said                                                               
he  disagrees  with  Mr.  Arno  that  she  represents  a  special                                                               
interest.    He stated  that  Ms.  Linnell's many  qualities  and                                                               
skills make her an asset to the  Board of Game, the people of the                                                               
state,  the resources,  and  the state  and  therefore TCC  fully                                                               
supports her confirmation.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DRUMMOND  offered   her  understanding  that  Mr.                                                               
Stevens is testifying on behalf of the Tanana Chiefs Conference.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEVENS  replied he  works for  the Tanana  Chiefs Conference                                                               
and helps support the Hunting and Fishing Task Force.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND inquired whether  the Hunting and Fishing                                                               
Task Force  of TCC  has taken  a position  on the  appointment of                                                               
Karen Linnell.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. STEVENS responded that it has taken a position in support.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:12:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JAMES LOW, retiree  of the Department of  Public Safety, Division                                                               
of  Alaska  Wildlife Troopers,  testified  in  support of  Thomas                                                               
Lamal, appointee to the Board of Game.   He said he has known Mr.                                                               
Lamal  for 30  years, most  of their  contacts being  through the                                                               
after-school  hunter  education program  where  Mr.  Lamal was  a                                                               
teacher  facilitator and  he  was part  of the  ADF&G  crew.   He                                                               
related that  he spoke to  Mr. Lamal's Alaska studies  classes on                                                               
the  topic of  wildlife enforcement,  one of  the several  topics                                                               
that Mr. Lamal had presented  to his class that included predator                                                               
control, black  bear baiting,  trapping, and so  forth.   He said                                                               
Mr.  Lamal  never tried  to  sway  his  class with  his  personal                                                               
thoughts  on any  issue and  would  bring in  speakers from  both                                                               
sides of an issue and let  the students ask questions and make up                                                               
their own minds.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOW explained that as a  trooper he inspected the moose taken                                                               
by  hunters  to ensure  that  all  the  required parts  had  been                                                               
salvaged and  proof of  the gender  had been  left intact  on the                                                               
hindquarters.  One  inspection, he recalled, happened to  be of a                                                               
moose taken  by Mr. Lamal and  Mr. Lamal had labeled  each [game]                                                               
sack as to  the contents inside, making the  inspection very easy                                                               
to  do.   He said  he finds  Mr. Lamal  to be  a person  who will                                                               
analyze all parts of an issue  and then determine which course of                                                               
action is  appropriate to take.   He offered his belief  that Mr.                                                               
Lamal is an excellent choice for the Board of Game.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:15:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
APRIL  FERGUSON,  senior  vice   president,  Bristol  Bay  Native                                                               
Corporation,  testified in  support  of the  appointments of  Ted                                                               
Spraker and  Karen Linnell to  the Board of  Game.  [Due  to poor                                                               
sound quality,  Ms. Ferguson's remaining comments  on Mr. Spraker                                                               
and Ms. Linnell are indecipherable.]                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:20:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
FREDRICK OLSEN,  JR., noted  he is Tribal  vice president  of the                                                               
Organized  Village of  Kasaan on  Prince of  Wales Island  and is                                                               
also a  member of the city  council, but stated he  is testifying                                                               
as a citizen, not as a  representative of the aforementioned.  He                                                               
offered his support  for the appointment of Karen  Linnell to the                                                               
Board of  Game and said he  appreciates the way Ms.  Linnell uses                                                               
science and  biology over politics  in her decision-making.   Ms.                                                               
Linnell's previous  experience shows she understands  the federal                                                               
process, he said.   She will bring this knowledge  to her service                                                               
at the state level with the Board  of Game, which will be of help                                                               
with regard  to the state's  federally recognized  Tribes instead                                                               
of ignoring Tribes or demonizing  Tribes as mere special interest                                                               
groups.   The Tribes, as  indigenous people  of the land,  have a                                                               
lot  to offer  the state,  he continued,  especially in  areas of                                                               
collaboration and overlap of existing  programs between the state                                                               
and Tribes.   In the era of budget  crunching, efficiencies could                                                               
perhaps be found  that would help both the state  and the people,                                                               
and Ms. Linnell is the person to do the job.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:23:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CARRIE STEVENS  testified in support of  Karen Linnell, appointee                                                               
to the Board of Game.  She said  Ms. Linnell is a fair and honest                                                               
woman who really does consider  every side of the equation before                                                               
she moves  forward.  Ms. Linnell  has shown her leadership  as an                                                               
individual and constantly demonstrates  her ability to critically                                                               
think, look, read, ask, and  pay attention to all perspectives in                                                               
order to make  good decisions.  She pointed out  that Ms. Linnell                                                               
has been a well-read and literate  board member on all the boards                                                               
that she has served on.  Ms.  Linnell is an Alaskan who has lived                                                               
her life around the fish and  wildlife resources of the state and                                                               
she  has made  sure  that Alaska  takes care  of  Alaskans.   Ms.                                                               
Stevens  added  that  she  cannot  speak  highly  enough  of  Ms.                                                               
Linnell's integrity in serving Alaskans.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:25:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICHARD  PETERSON   testified  in   support  of   Karen  Linnell,                                                               
appointee to the Board of Game.   He said he supports Ms. Linnell                                                               
because  of  her  many  years  of experience  in  fish  and  game                                                               
management and because  she has proven she is  capable of finding                                                               
common ground with competing interests.   He noted the importance                                                               
of Ms.  Linnell's belief that wildlife  management decisions need                                                               
to be based on science and  biology and not politics.  Because of                                                               
her familiarity with the Board  of Game process, Ms. Linnell will                                                               
not  need  to get  up  to  speed, he  said.    Ms. Linnell  is  a                                                               
consensus-driven person,  which is important and  compatible with                                                               
the philosophy  she represents.   Further, he added,  Ms. Linnell                                                               
understands  the  federal  perspective  from  her  past  advisory                                                               
experience and  will bring that  knowledge to her service  to the                                                               
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:26:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WILBUR BROWN,  second vice  president, Alaska  Native Brotherhood                                                               
Grand  Camp;  camp  president, Sitka  Local  Camp,  testified  in                                                               
support of Karen Linnell's appointment to  the Board of Game.  He                                                               
said he  has known Ms.  Linnell for many  years and while  he may                                                               
not always agree with  her, he has always been able  to come to a                                                               
resolution with her in discussions.   Ms. Linnell understands the                                                               
Board of Game process and  the federal prospective, he continued,                                                               
and she understands  the lifestyle of Alaskans  because she lives                                                               
the lifestyle.  Ms. Linnell  will provide fair representation for                                                               
communities and  is involved  with communities.   He  offered his                                                               
respect for Ms. Linnell and his understanding of her opinions.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:27:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DON HORRELL noted  he is a lifelong Alaskan and  a 50-year member                                                               
of  the  Copper Basin  Fish  and  Game  Advisory Committee.    He                                                               
testified  in  strong  support  of both  Ted  Spraker  and  Karen                                                               
Linnell.  He said Mr.  Spraker's experience as the area biologist                                                               
makes him very familiar with  [Game Management] Unit 13, the most                                                               
popular unit  for all of the  different user groups.   He said he                                                               
has worked with Ms. Linnell on  federal issues for years and that                                                               
she brings  all kinds  of knowledge  of both  the region  and the                                                               
federal issues.  Ms. Linnell's background  will be a real plus to                                                               
the  Board of  Game, he  continued.   He added  that she  is very                                                               
supportive of  all Copper Basin  residents and is very  strong in                                                               
Native issues as well as non-Native issues in the Copper Basin.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
5:30:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JESSICA BLACK  testified in support  of Karen  Linnell, appointee                                                               
to the Board of Game.   She said Ms. Linnell's wide experience on                                                               
boards and her  calm, organized, and fair demeanor  will make her                                                               
be an excellent  board member.  She stated that  Ms. Linnell sees                                                               
all sides of  issues before she makes a decision  and really does                                                               
her homework by  reading everything.  She said she  has been very                                                               
impressed when she  has seen Ms. Linnell in  the different venues                                                               
and that Ms. Linnell is already  an excellent member of the Board                                                               
of Game and  will make fair decisions.  She  further related that                                                               
Ms.  Linnell lives  in a  community where  she has  to constantly                                                               
consider  different perspectives  and does  so with  grace.   Ms.                                                               
Black offered  her support,  confidence, and  high recommendation                                                               
for Ms. Linnell.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
5:31:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  [moved to advance  the confirmations] of  Big Game                                                               
Commercial Services  Board appointees Henry Tiffany,  James "Tom"                                                               
Atkins, and  Thomas Sullivan,  and Board  of Game  appointees Ted                                                               
Spraker, Karen Linnell,  Thomas Lamal, and Larry Van  Daele.  She                                                               
stated that  the House Resources Standing  Committee has reviewed                                                               
the qualifications  of the governor's appointees  to these boards                                                               
and recommends  their names be  forwarded to a joint  session for                                                               
consideration.  She advised that  this does not reflect intent by                                                               
any  of the  members to  vote  for or  against these  individuals                                                               
during  any further  sessions for  the purposes  of confirmation.                                                               
[There being no objection, the confirmations were advanced.]                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
5:32:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                HB 134-BOARD OF GAME MEMBERSHIP                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
5:33:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON announced  that the  next order  of business                                                               
would be HOUSE  BILL 134, "An Act relating to  the composition of                                                               
the Board of Game."]                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  moved to adopt  the proposed  committee substitute                                                               
(CS) for  HB 134, Version  30-LS0473\J, Bullard, 3/28/17,  as the                                                               
working document.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
5:33:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON objected for discussion purposes.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON explained  that  the  original bill  proposed                                                               
there be two  members other than the general  category of members                                                               
on the  Board of Game  - one a dedicated  tourism seat and  one a                                                               
dedicated nonconsumptive  seat.   He said  Version J  reduces the                                                               
number of dedicated  seats from two to one,  removes the language                                                               
that there shall  be a tourism seat, and adds  the language, "One                                                               
member  shall   be  appointed  whose  predominant   use  of  game                                                               
resources  is  nonconsumptive  and  who is  actively  engaged  in                                                               
wildlife conservation."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  recalled that a public  hearing was held                                                               
on the  original bill  and surmised that  a public  hearing would                                                               
not be held on Version J [if adopted as the working document].                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON replied correct.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   RAUSCHER   asked  whether   the   aforementioned                                                               
explanation of Version J is the only difference.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON responded correct.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
5:35:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  removed  his  objection.    There  being  no                                                               
further objection, Version J was before the committee.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:35:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH   offered  [Conceptual  Amendment   1]  as                                                               
follows:  Page 1, Section 1,  line 13, delete "shall", and insert                                                               
"should".                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
5:36:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR stated that either  "shall" or "may" is the typical                                                               
language  that is  used,  rather than  "should",  when wanting  a                                                               
provision to  be either prescriptive  or permissive.   Therefore,                                                               
she  would leave  it  up  to the  drafters  at Legislative  Legal                                                               
Services, Legislative  Affairs Agency,  to determine  whether the                                                               
word should be changed from "shall" to "may".                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK agreed  with Co-Chair  Tarr and  pointed out                                                               
that  page 1,  line  7, states  the governor  "shall".   He  said                                                               
"shall" and "may"  constitute the standard language  that is used                                                               
throughout the state's statutes.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND said the  committee needs to know whether                                                               
"shall" or "may" agrees with the  sponsor of the bill because, in                                                               
her opinion, "should" sounds permissive.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested the  sponsor to give an example                                                               
of someone who would fit the description in the bill.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON replied  that this  person shall  reflect all                                                               
the uses of game in the  state by residents.  In further response                                                               
to  Representative  Rauscher  he  clarified  that  he  reads  the                                                               
language to mean the appointee  should reflect these user groups,                                                               
not  necessarily  that   the  appointee  must  be   a  sport  and                                                               
subsistence hunter, trapper, and tourist all at the same time.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER requested the  sponsor to give an example                                                               
of a person who can fill  this, such as whether this person would                                                               
be someone  like a wildlife  photographer or someone  involved in                                                               
conservation who has  been involved in all  these different types                                                               
of situations.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  noted that two different  sentences are added                                                               
in  Version J  and he  thought that  Representative Rauscher  was                                                               
addressing the  second, but it seems  the first one is  now being                                                               
addressed.  He maintained that  the current language on diversity                                                               
on page 1, line 9, is not  reflected in the makeup of the current                                                               
board.  He  recalled Mr. Spraker, chairman of the  board, and who                                                               
has been  on the board  since 2002, definitively  stating earlier                                                               
that a  nonconsumptive user is needed  on the board.   He further                                                               
recalled Mr.  Spraker stating that  someone like  Ben Grussendorf                                                               
was  the kind  of  person who  is  needed because  nonconsumptive                                                               
users thought that Mr. Grussendorf heard them.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
5:40:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH  spoke further  on Conceptual  Amendment 1.                                                               
He said the current language  in Version J is strictly permissive                                                               
and  the proposed  language change  is  aspirational rather  than                                                               
prescriptive  or permissive.    The proposed  language would  say                                                               
this is  the goal rather  than something  that shall be  done and                                                               
that failing to do  so would be a violation of  statute.  He said                                                               
he  thinks it  is  best  to have  the  language  speaking to  the                                                               
[legislature's]  purpose and  he thinks  it  is best  to leave  a                                                               
degree of flexibility in it.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  asked whether  it is  Representative Parish's                                                               
preference to persist with the proposed language of "should".                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH  responded  yes,   subject  to  review  by                                                               
Legislative Legal Services.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  stated he  is not  speaking in  favor of                                                               
the bill,  but is speaking in  favor of the amendment  because he                                                               
understands what  the maker  of the amendment  is trying  to say.                                                               
He said the  amendment looks like the question  he had previously                                                               
asked because  he is  unsure this  provision could  really happen                                                               
and then when it didn't it would be a violation of statute.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TUCK  offered his understanding that  the maker of                                                               
the amendment  believes "should" would be  permissive rather than                                                               
mandatory.   He  asked whether  the bill  sponsor's intention  is                                                               
that it be mandatory.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON answered that, as  stated by Co-Chair Tarr and                                                               
Representative Tuck,  "may" or "shall"  are consistent  with what                                                               
he has read.   There is no  doubt, he continued, that  there is a                                                               
distinction between these two words.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:44:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was  taken.  Representatives Rauscher and Parish                                                               
voted  in  favor  of Conceptual  Amendment  1.    Representatives                                                               
Talerico,  Tuck (alternate),  Drummond,  Johnson, Josephson,  and                                                               
Tarr voted against it.   Therefore, Conceptual Amendment 1 failed                                                               
to be adopted by a vote of 2-6.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  said she  received a suggestion  which is                                                               
that a definition  of nonconsumptive should be  included into the                                                               
bill.  She requested the sponsor's thoughts on this suggestion.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  replied that thought  was given to  that very                                                               
thing, which  is why [Version J]  describes it as someone  who is                                                               
actively  engaged  in wildlife  conservation.    For purposes  of                                                               
making a  record for posterity, he  said it would be  someone who                                                               
generally  speaking, isn't  necessarily going  to be  inclined to                                                               
not vote  for hunting  - that  is not  what is  intended.   It is                                                               
someone who  has some belief  that wildlife is also  for watching                                                               
and  viewing,  particularly  when there  are  contentious  issues                                                               
involving methods and means.   For example, he continued, Dr. Van                                                               
Daele talked  about his preference  that bears not be  trapped or                                                               
snared, which  is a minority  opinion on  the board, and  that is                                                               
the sort of diversity that a nonconsumptive user could bring.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TUCK  (alternate)  offered his  appreciation  for                                                               
Representative Johnson's question.   He pointed out  that what is                                                               
not being  said by  Version J  is someone who  just goes  out and                                                               
shoots  game  and  doesn't  eat  it.    What  the  bill  says  is                                                               
"predominant  use of  game resources  is  nonconsumptive", so  he                                                               
would read this as excluding  professional hunters.  He noted the                                                               
language goes on  to state, "who is actively  engaged in wildlife                                                               
conservation."  Many professional  hunters are also into wildlife                                                               
conservation, he continued, so the CS  puts a balance in there to                                                               
demonstrate that  these are not necessarily  nonhunters, but that                                                               
they are  not predominantly for  consumptive use as would  be had                                                               
in a profession.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH related  that  consumptive  is defined  in                                                               
Dictionary.com  as   pertaining  to  consumption  by   use,  when                                                               
something is  consumed it is  used up.  Therefore,  he concluded,                                                               
when  a  person  takes  pictures of  wildlife,  wildlife  is  not                                                               
necessarily  damaged   in  the  process,  thereby   making  it  a                                                               
nonconsumptive use.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND commented she  has heard a nonconsumptive                                                               
user described as someone who only  takes a photo from the field,                                                               
the animal is not taken.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:48:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER posited  that nonconsumptive  could mean                                                               
conservation, and that could be  management but not utilizing any                                                               
of it for a refrigerator.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  ascertained  no  one else  wished  to  offer                                                               
additional amendments  and announced  the committee is  now under                                                               
discussion of the proposed CS.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO  stated  he  is  not  in  favor  of  the                                                               
proposed CS  as written, nor  the amendment.  After  reciting the                                                               
proposed new language,  he said Representative Tuck  brought up a                                                               
good point.   He  stated he  considers himself  to be  a wildlife                                                               
conservationist because he invests  financially every year in the                                                               
conservation  of game  via  the purchase  of  a hunting  license,                                                               
which goes towards game conservation.   He said he also regularly                                                               
goes out  to view  animals with  a spotting  scope and  does more                                                               
viewing than actual  taking of game.  Therefore,  he posited, his                                                               
predominant use  could very well be  described as nonconsumptive.                                                               
He noted that  current statute states, "with a  view to providing                                                               
diversity of interest and points of  view in the membership."  He                                                               
further noted that it is the  governor at the time that makes the                                                               
appointments to the  Board of Game and because of  the wording in                                                               
current  statute  it   is  really  the  choice   of  the  state's                                                               
administrator  at that  particular time.   He  predicted a  bumpy                                                               
road ahead  [if the bill is  passed] that could result  in coming                                                               
to a  point of having  to determine what  every seat will  be and                                                               
what the  requirements will  be for each  seat, such  as wildlife                                                               
biologist or guide, along with a definition of consumer.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
5:52:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON addressed  Representative Talerico's point                                                               
by posing  a scenario in  which someone is a  nonconsumptive user                                                               
by virtue of  snapping pictures and watching grouse  but who also                                                               
goes hunting occasionally.   She asked whether  this person would                                                               
be excluded from appointment to the nonconsumptive seat.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  replied that a  lot of thought went  into how                                                               
to craft  something like this  and the  history of the  bill will                                                               
reflect, starting with the invited  testimony, what was trying to                                                               
be  achieved.   He  said a  court  would look  at  this and  say,                                                               
"They're trying to do something  different in this sentence, this                                                               
is different - this is different  than the other six spots."  The                                                               
court would have to make that determination, he maintained.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
5:53:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  said  it   is  his  understanding  that                                                               
whatever is talked  about in this committee on this  side when it                                                               
goes to  court will be  used as the  intent of what  was intended                                                               
here.  So,  when it does go to court  committee members will need                                                               
to define  in their conversation  the intent of what  the sponsor                                                               
is trying to get across here.   He requested the sponsor to state                                                               
his intent.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON remarked:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     This seat would be held  by someone who does not oppose                                                                    
     hunting,  but who  opposes the  methods and  means that                                                                    
     I've seen employed  in the last 15 years  that are very                                                                    
     unusual.   And  these  include things  like gassing  of                                                                    
     wolf pups and bear snaring  and bear trapping and same-                                                                    
     day  airborne,  and  land  and  shoot  at  wolves,  and                                                                    
     intensive  game management  which didn't  exist before,                                                                    
     or at  least wasn't implemented  prior to 2002.  … They                                                                    
     would  have to  follow the  law.   I'm not  saying they                                                                    
     wouldn't follow the  law.  So, if there  was a proposal                                                                    
     for  intensive game  management they'd  have to  follow                                                                    
     that  law.   But  they would  give a  voice  to the  85                                                                    
     percent  of  the  people who  don't  have  hunting  and                                                                    
     trapping licenses.  That's who  they'd give a voice to.                                                                    
     That's the plan.  That's the goal.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH recited the  current statute, which states,                                                               
"The governor shall appoint each  member on the basis of interest                                                               
in public affairs,  good judgment, knowledge, and  ability in the                                                               
field  of action  of  the board,  and with  a  view to  providing                                                               
diversity  of interest  and points  of view  in the  membership."                                                               
Referring to today's  testimony by the Board  of Game appointees,                                                               
he noted  that Mr. Spraker  has a great  deal of reason  to know,                                                               
that Dr.  Van Daele recognized  the importance  of nonconsumptive                                                               
use, and  that Ms.  Linnell referenced  the importance  of having                                                               
resources  available  for  all  the  user  groups  including  the                                                               
nonconsumptive.   However, he continued,  his impression  is that                                                               
the status  quo isn't,  and hasn't been,  working quite  right in                                                               
that [the Board of Game] does  not have the diversity of interest                                                               
and points of  view that are really representative  of the Alaska                                                               
population as  a whole, and that  failure is what this  bill aims                                                               
to address.   The  word nonconsumptive  is someone  whose primary                                                               
use is  nonconsumptive, although this person  can still certainly                                                               
be a hunter so  long as his or her primary use  is elsewhere.  He                                                               
offered his support  for the bill, but said he  cannot promise he                                                               
won't  ask  Legislative  Legal   Services  about  the  difference                                                               
between "should" and "shall".                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
5:57:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  pointed out that  the Board  of Game and  Board of                                                               
Fisheries statutes were written at  the time of statehood.  Since                                                               
then the  state has grown quite  a bit, she continued,  and there                                                               
are now  many more stakeholder  groups.   She said she  sees this                                                               
process as  being a maturing and  evolving of the state  and that                                                               
considering the  viewpoints of  a variety  of interest  groups is                                                               
what is  bringing things to this  point, and which is  why she is                                                               
supporting the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
5:58:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  stated that  naming a definition  of one                                                               
particular seat  is inconsistent with  the other six seats.   For                                                               
this  reason alone,  although he  doesn't think  a nonconsumptive                                                               
seat should not  be on the board, he offered  his belief that the                                                               
bill seeks to  dictate the definition of one of  the directors on                                                               
this  board but  not the  other six.   This  is not  in the  best                                                               
interest, he  posited, because  it could  lead toward  naming the                                                               
definition and dictating belief systems  when the way it has been                                                               
done to  date has  been fair.   Therefore, he  said, he  would be                                                               
voting no on the bill.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
5:59:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  moved to  report  the  proposed  CS for  HB  134,                                                               
Version  30-LS0473\J, Bullard,  3/28/17,  out  of committee  with                                                               
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON objected.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
6:00:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll  call vote was  taken.  Representatives  Tuck (alternate),                                                               
Drummond,  Parish, Tarr,  and  Josephson voted  in  favor of  the                                                               
bill.   Representatives  Johnson,  Rauscher,  and Talerico  voted                                                               
against  it.   Therefore,  CSHB 134(RES)  was  reported from  the                                                               
House Resources Standing Committee by a vote of 5-3.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:00:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:01:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 6:01 p.m.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Henry Tiffany IV_Redacted.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board
Adam Trombley 2015_Redacted.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board
James Atkins 2016_Redacted.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board
Thomas Sullivan Jr._Redacted.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Alaska Big Game Commercial Services Board
Karen Linnell_Redacted.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Board of Game
Thomas Lamal_Redacted.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Board of Game
Ted Spraker 2016_Redacted.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Board of Game
Lawrence Van Daele_Redacted.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Board of Game
Tom Lamal -BOG- Letters of Support 3.28.17.pdf.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Board of Game
HB 134 vers J.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
HB 134
Linnell Support 3.31.17.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
Board of Game
HB 134 vers J.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
HB 134
HB 134 Opposition Document - Note in Opposition Harpster 3.31.17.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
HB 134
HB134 Fiscal Note DFG-BBS 3.17.17.pdf HRES 3/31/2017 1:00:00 PM
HB 134