Legislature(2017 - 2018)BARNES 124

02/15/2017 06:00 PM RESOURCES

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Audio Topic
06:04:08 PM Start
06:04:30 PM HB6
08:06:00 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 6 JONESVILLE PUBLIC USE AREA TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 6(RES) Out of Committee
-- Public Testimony --
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                       February 15, 2017                                                                                        
                           6:04 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Andy Josephson, Co-Chair                                                                                         
Representative Geran Tarr, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Dean Westlake, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Harriet Drummond                                                                                                 
Representative Justin Parish                                                                                                    
Representative Chris Birch                                                                                                      
Representative DeLena Johnson                                                                                                   
Representative George Rauscher                                                                                                  
Representative David Talerico                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault (alternate)                                                                                        
Representative Chris Tuck (alternate)                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 6                                                                                                                
"An Act establishing the Jonesville Public Use Area."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 6(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB   6                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: JONESVILLE PUBLIC USE AREA                                                                                         
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) RAUSCHER                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
01/18/17       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/9/17                                                                                
01/18/17       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/18/17       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
01/27/17       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
01/27/17       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/27/17       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/06/17       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
02/06/17       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/06/17       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/15/17       (H)       RES AT 6:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JIM SYKES, District Representative                                                                                              
Matanuska-Susitna (Mat-Su) Borough Assembly                                                                                     
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 6.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Al BARRETTE                                                                                                                     
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified during the hearing of HB 6.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK BERTELS, Chairman                                                                                                          
Sutton Community Council                                                                                                        
Sutton, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 6.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
KENNY BARBER                                                                                                                    
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  support  of  HB 6  and  the                                                             
amendments submitted by Representative Rauscher.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PATTI BARBER                                                                                                                    
Palmer, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  in  support  of  HB 6  and  the                                                             
amendments submitted by Representative Rauscher.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
WYN MENEFEE, Deputy Director                                                                                                    
Alaska Mental Health Trust Land Office                                                                                          
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions  during the hearing of HB                                                             
6.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BRENT GOODRUM, Director                                                                                                         
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions  during the hearing of HB                                                             
6.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:04:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  ANDY  JOSEPHSON  called the  House  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order  at   6:04  p.m.    Representatives                                                               
Josephson,   Birch,   Talerico,  Rauscher,   Drummond,   Johnson,                                                               
Westlake,  and   Tarr  were  present   at  the  call   to  order.                                                               
Representative Parish arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                HB 6-JONESVILLE PUBLIC USE AREA                                                                             
6:04: PM                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON announced  that  the only  order of  business                                                               
would be  HOUSE BILL NO.  6, "An Act establishing  the Jonesville                                                               
Public Use Area."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
6:05:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM  SYKES, District  Representative, Matanuska-Susitna  (Mat-Su)                                                               
Borough  Assembly,   informed  the   committee  Matanuska-Susitna                                                               
Borough  Resolution  Serial  No.   17-012,  adopted  2/7/17,  and                                                               
provided  in  the committee  packet,  was  unanimously passed  in                                                               
support of  HB 6.   He  said most  of the  land around  Sutton is                                                               
public  land  under the  purview  of  the Department  of  Natural                                                               
Resources (DNR).   Mr. Sykes  referred to problems raised  in the                                                               
assembly resolution,  and opined  HB 6  is a  good solution  to a                                                               
serious problem;  in fact,  establishing a  public use  area will                                                               
provide  a  framework  so that  participating  agencies  and  the                                                               
community can make  changes similar to those already  made by the                                                               
Knik River Public  Use Area (KRPRU).  He  said providing services                                                               
such  as  a  campground,  a  designated  shooting  range,  hiking                                                               
trails, and  all-terrain vehicle (ATV) trails  are meaningful and                                                               
the  framework  is  the  first   step.    Although  the  assembly                                                               
resolution refers  to the original  draft of the  legislation, he                                                               
said Section  3 and  Section 4 of  the bill could  be put  in the                                                               
management  plan.   He commended  community and  local government                                                               
efforts in this regard - HB  6 has widespread community support -                                                               
and  said the  Mat-Su  Borough will  work with  DNR  to create  a                                                               
management  plan.   He opined  that HB  6 would  solve a  serious                                                               
problem at minimal cost, and urged for the committee's support.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  asked  Mr.  Sykes  whether  the  Sutton                                                               
Community  Council  has  the  ability to  work  with  the  Mat-Su                                                               
Borough and DNR to create a responsible management plan.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:10:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SYKES referred  to a letter from the  Mat-Su Borough director                                                               
of  land  management,  provided  in the  committee  packet.    He                                                               
advised  the  departments of  land  management  and planning  are                                                               
prepared to  commit staff  time to work  with DNR.   Furthermore,                                                               
the Mat-Su  Borough has an  interest in seeing  improvements made                                                               
in this  area, as  potentially the area  could "pay  for itself."                                                               
He restated support for the bill.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  shared that  a lot of  the plan  for the                                                               
Jonesville Public Use  Area was fashioned after  KRPUA, which was                                                               
a nine-year process, and culminated in a good plan.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SYKES  agreed  the  KRPUA   was  quite  successful  and  the                                                               
community  holds an  annual clean-up  to  keep the  area free  of                                                               
trash.   In addition, the  area has  a "learning loop"  where one                                                               
can  learn  to  ride  ATVs  at  a slow  and  safe  speed,  and  a                                                               
campground  is  being  built.    He said  that  the  borough  was                                                               
instrumental in  the plan, and  offered his hope that  KRPUA will                                                               
serve  as a  good  template for  a solution  to  the problems  in                                                               
Sutton.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON said  she was  pleased to  have the  bill                                                               
before the committee.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:16:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH read from  the previously identified Mat-Su                                                               
Borough resolution as follows [in part]:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
       Whereas, the community of Sutton provided its own                                                                        
       resources and funds to clean [up] and monitor the                                                                        
     Jonesville area ....                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH stated the  resolution is very commendable;                                                               
however, he said his concern about  HB 6 is related to the fiscal                                                               
notes attached  to the KRPUA  enabling legislation, one  of which                                                               
was for $200,000  the first year and $150,000 the  next year, and                                                               
a  second fiscal  note was  for  $330,000, and  $270,000 for  the                                                               
following  years.     He  questioned  how  much   of  the  fiscal                                                               
responsibility the  community of Sutton  is prepared to  bear for                                                               
the Jonesville Public Use Area.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. SYKES offered  the main things the community  of Sutton would                                                               
be  able   to  contribute  would   be  personnel   and  community                                                               
involvement,  although   there  may  be  revenue   sharing  funds                                                               
available.   At  KRPUA there  were a  few major  items and  it is                                                               
staffed  at certain  times.   In addition,  a shooting  range was                                                               
installed,  and   sometimes  the  borough  can   upgrade  trails.                                                               
Furthermore,  user groups  are often  interested in  upgrading an                                                               
area,  and some  who  live nearby  often patrol  areas.   He  was                                                               
unsure  about  KRPUA  fiscal notes  and  acknowledged  that  many                                                               
infrastructure improvements  to KRPUA may not  immediately happen                                                               
at the Jonesville  area, although the campground  area at Slipper                                                               
Lake  has already  been  graded, and  would  be a  cost-effective                                                               
installation.    Mr. Sykes  was  unsure  of "what  the  financial                                                               
commitment would be ...."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   JOSEPHSON  asked   Mr.  Sykes   which  amendments   he                                                               
personally does not oppose.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SYKES  said that  he was referencing  the "two  sections that                                                               
would  allow more  flexibility, if  they were  in the  management                                                               
plan rather than in the  legislation, and my personal opinion was                                                               
that it didn't make a lot  of difference, but that there probably                                                               
would be more flexibility if it were in the plan."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
6:21:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Al  BARRETTE  declared his  appreciation  for  special use  areas                                                               
because   of  the   inclusion  of   trapping,  and   acknowledged                                                               
supporting  trapping   raises  many  issues.     In  HB   6,  the                                                               
legislature  has   an  opportunity   to  recognize   existing  or                                                               
historical trap  lines and  avoid conflicts  with pet  owners and                                                               
trap lines.   Mr. Barrette  referred to his  previously submitted                                                               
written testimony  and urged the  legislature to  take preventive                                                               
measures  as to  "who  can trap  where  and who  can  walk a  dog                                                               
where."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:22:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MARK BERTELS,  Chairman, Sutton  Community Council,  informed the                                                               
committee  the decision  to bring  the issue  to the  legislature                                                               
came about over one year ago,  when the council realized that the                                                               
Jonesville Public  Use Area would be  too much to be  included in                                                               
the Sutton  Comprehensive Plan, thus the  Jonesville/Slipper Lake                                                               
Action  Committee was  formed.   The committee  sought assistance                                                               
from the  Mat-Su Borough Planning  Department, and  included many                                                               
stakeholders  in   the  committee   process  such  as   DNR,  the                                                               
Department  of Public  Safety (DPS),  the Alaska  State Troopers,                                                               
and  the Mat-Su  Borough, along  with various  local clubs.   The                                                               
support   for  the   bill  has   been   successful  because   the                                                               
stakeholders  shared  a  consensus  for  multiple  use  that  was                                                               
developed  during   the  committee  process.     Turning  to  the                                                               
amendments, he  said he  preferred to "leave  this bill  open for                                                               
the  development of  any new  trails that  could alleviate  areas                                                               
that have  high-usage or  impact from,  specifically, all-terrain                                                               
vehicles."   Mr. Bertels explained  stakeholders agreed  that the                                                               
community of  Sutton overwhelmingly  supports the  coal industry,                                                               
and  he  said he  does  not  want  to  compromise the  bill  with                                                               
amendments that would  limit multiple use.  He  restated the bill                                                               
required a long intensive process  with wide-spread support.  The                                                               
bill should  be passed because  it addresses the issue  of public                                                               
safety and is necessary.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:28:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON paraphrased in part from an amendment                                                                        
[labeled 30-LS0105\D.13, Bullard, 2/14/17] as follows:                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     "Nothing  in  this  act   would  restrict  or  prohibit                                                                    
     mineral exploration  and development activities  in the                                                                    
     Jonesville Public Use Area."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON continued:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     And  that   seems  to   put  mineral   and  exploration                                                                    
     development above  all other  things, in  sort of  in a                                                                    
     first place in the pecking  order.  Would that, is that                                                                    
     something  you'd rather  leave to  the management  plan                                                                    
     for a later day where  people can testify and DNR would                                                                    
     draft a management plan?                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:29:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BERTELS responded:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Well, with  all due respect,  Representative Josephson,                                                                    
     we, we've been  through that process already  as far as                                                                    
     the compatibility  of resource extraction.   We've been                                                                    
     experiencing  the  compatibility   of  these  different                                                                    
     activities  for decades.   We've  successfully, to  the                                                                    
     point where, up  until the point where, we  had so many                                                                    
     visitors,  it wasn't  a matter  of resource  extraction                                                                    
     that  was the  issue, it  was public  safety and  basic                                                                    
     management and  protection of  the environment  for all                                                                    
     these uses, but ...                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON restated his original point which was there                                                                  
is no amendment or provision in the bill that would restrict or                                                                 
prohibit dog walking or berry picking.  He remarked:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     It just  says in  this amendment,  "Nothing in  the act                                                                    
     would  restrict  or  prohibit mineral  exploration  and                                                                    
     development."   Does  that swing  the language  too far                                                                    
     toward mineral exploration and development?                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BERTELS said no.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WESTLAKE  offered   his  understanding  that  Mr.                                                               
Bertels is concerned  with unintended consequences to  any of the                                                               
actions [in the bill].  He asked  Mr. Bertels if there is a local                                                               
planning  commission  or  land  use  committee  utilized  by  the                                                               
community.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BERTELS emphasized  that the process leading to HB  6 was due                                                               
to  the  consensus of  the  stakeholders  - including  commercial                                                               
resource development - and he does  not want to see the consensus                                                               
compromised.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER asked  whether Mr.  Bertels, as  invited                                                               
testimony, could return for further testimony if needed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON indicated yes, and opened public testimony.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:33:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KENNY  BARBER said  that  he  supports HB  6  and the  amendments                                                               
proposed  by  Representative  Rauscher.    He  opined  KRPUA  has                                                               
improved that area, and suggested  an amendment to [HB 6] stating                                                               
that reroutes of  trails must be allowed prior to  the closure of                                                               
a trail for any reason.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:35:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PATTI  BARBER  said  that  she   supports  HB  6  as  amended  by                                                               
Representative Rauscher.   She opined that  the Jonesville Public                                                               
Use  Area would  help remedy  many of  the problems  residents of                                                               
Sutton currently are experiencing.   Ms. Barber noted the success                                                               
of KRPUA.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:35:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  closed public  testimony and announced  HB 6,                                                               
Version D, was before the committee.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  stated that  he was  offering amendments                                                               
recommended  by  the [Alaska  Mental  Health  Trust Land  Office,                                                               
Office of  the Commissioner,  DNR], in  order to  protect certain                                                               
elements of  the affected land.   He disclosed  that he is  not a                                                               
spokesman for the [Alaska Mental Health Trust Land Office].                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
6:38:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER moved to  adopt an amendment labeled [30-                                                               
LS0105\] D.1.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
6:38:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
6:40:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  withdrew [amendment D.1].   He explained                                                               
the  content  "will  be addressed  in  another  amendment  later:                                                               
D.5."                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  inquired as  to whether  public testimony                                                               
would be heard related to the amendments to HB 6.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  said there is no  protocol to do so  and gave                                                               
an example.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR suggested a second  round of public testimony would                                                               
be heard if the bill were changed significantly.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
[Brief  discussion   ensued  regarding   the  timing   of  public                                                               
testimony as it relates to specific amendments to legislation.]                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER moved  to adopt  [Amendment 1],  labeled                                                               
30-LS0105\D.2., Bullard, 1/30/17, which read as follows:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 2 - 3:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
               "(A)  continued mineral exploration and                                                                          
     development activities;                                                                                                    
               (B)  motorized access to private property,                                                                       
     including property in which a person has a subsurface                                                                      
     right, in the Jonesville Public Use Area; and"                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Reletter the following subparagraph accordingly.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 9:                                                                                                            
          Delete "or"                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 12, following "safety":                                                                                       
          Insert "; or                                                                                                          
               (3)    lawful    mineral   exploration    and                                                                    
      development activities within the Jonesville Public                                                                       
     Use Area"                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
6:43:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER stated  that Amendment  1 came  from the                                                               
Alaska Mental  Health Trust Land  Office.  Amendment  1 clarifies                                                               
that  subsurface   rights  in   the  area   may  be   leased  for                                                               
development, and adds  language to the bill that  would allow for                                                               
continued   mining  where   the   Alaska   Mental  Health   Trust                                                               
[Authority] has leases.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
6:44:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WYN  MENEFEE, Deputy  Director, Alaska  Mental Health  Trust Land                                                               
Office, Office  of the Commissioner, DNR,  informed the committee                                                               
HB  6, on  page 2,  line 2,  allows for  the continued  motorized                                                               
access  for  miners  and  owners   of  private  property  in  the                                                               
Jonesville Public Use Area.  However,  the bill does not speak to                                                               
the  fact that  the affected  land is  a mineral  exploration and                                                               
development area that has existing  mineral coal leases, and that                                                               
the subsurface mineral  estate is the dominate  estate in Alaska.                                                               
Amendment 1  clarifies that  in addition  to motorized  access to                                                               
miners,   a  full   suite  of   activities  related   to  mineral                                                               
exploration and development would be allowed.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR questioned  whether there is the  potential for the                                                               
amendment  to  undermine the  purpose  of  the public  use  area,                                                               
should a significant resource extraction development occur.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENEFEE stated that the  mineral leases could lead to legally                                                               
authorized  development at  some point  in time;  in fact,  there                                                               
could  be  a  large  pit   and  structures,  or  activities  that                                                               
obliterate certain  trails.   The amendment  does not  stop other                                                               
uses in the area, but clarifies  that if a mineral lease leads to                                                               
the development  of a mine,  the recreational uses of  the public                                                               
use  area would  not supersede  the mine,  which already  holds a                                                               
legitimate ownership right.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR asked  whether the  management plan  would address                                                               
situations  where  major  development, with  infrastructure,  may                                                               
lead to  a closure  of a  certain area to  public use  because of                                                               
liability.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MENEFEE, speaking from his  perspective, said when a lease is                                                               
issued  through  the  Alaska  surface  coal  mining  control  and                                                               
reclamation act  (ASCMCRA) program,  there will be  conditions in                                                               
the permit that will address  interactions with other uses in the                                                               
area; however, a coal seam with  a lawful lease will mine through                                                               
a  recreational  trail,  although   there  may  be  offset  costs                                                               
assessed to  provide an  alternative trail.   He deferred  to the                                                               
Division of Mining, Land and Water, DNR.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:49:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRENT  GOODRUM, Director,  Division  of Mining,  Land and  Water,                                                               
DNR, anticipated that the above  mentioned topic and others would                                                               
be  addressed through  a  management plan  that  would rely  upon                                                               
statute and regulations as to existing rights.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR stated  her concern is public  safety; for example,                                                               
abandoned mining  sites and  equipment can  present a  hazard for                                                               
hikers.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  observed the proposed amendment  would strike                                                               
the  language in  the bill  that says  the management  plan shall                                                               
allow,  "additional public  uses of  the area  determined by  the                                                               
commissioner to  be compatible with  this section."   He surmised                                                               
the Sutton  Community Council supports  mixed use, albeit  with a                                                               
priority to mining.  He remarked:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     ... I  want you in your  management plan deliberations,                                                                    
     to  have lots  of tension  and competition,  and if  we                                                                    
     strike  [subparagraph] (B)  line 4,  you'll have  less,                                                                    
     won't you?                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. GOODRUM answered any plan dealing  with the use of state land                                                               
includes  healthy tension.    He expressed  his  belief that  the                                                               
proposed amendment would clarify some  of the higher uses already                                                               
found within  statute, and  in the  state's understanding  of the                                                               
dominant estate being the mineral estate.  Mr. Goodrum remarked:                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     And  so I  don't know  that by  striking [subparagraph]                                                                    
     (B),  public  uses  which  are  generally  allowed  are                                                                    
     already  considered activities  that  we will  consider                                                                    
     within our planning process.   And so I don't know that                                                                    
     those  are diminished  any by  highlighting the  other,                                                                    
     other uses associated with mineral development.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
6:52:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR removed her objection to Amendment 1.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  objected.   He asked  Representative Rauscher                                                               
to  accept a  friendly  amendment adding  subparagraph (C)  which                                                               
read:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     (C)  additional public uses of the area determined by                                                                      
     the commissioner to be compatible with this section;                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked for an opinion from DNR.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  returned  attention to  [subparagraph]  (B),                                                               
page 2, lines 4 and 5, of  Version D, and pointed out Mr. Goodrum                                                               
said DNR takes into consideration public uses.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH  questioned  the objective  of  introducing                                                               
tension  between  the differing  land  interests  of the  surface                                                               
owner and  the subsurface owner,  which are  known.  He  said the                                                               
objective of  the bill is  to manage  the affected area,  and the                                                               
committee  has heard  sufficient positive  public testimony,  and                                                               
testimony from the  Mat-Su [Borough] Assembly, in  support of the                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  clarified that the committee  has a unanimous                                                               
[resolution] to  approve HB  6 as  written, not  as amended.   In                                                               
addition, he has  heard there are many Mat-Su  residents who want                                                               
to have dialogue "about mining in  the Jonesville area."  He said                                                               
his intent  is to ensure  the management plan team  considers all                                                               
uses.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
6:56:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at ease from 6:56 p.m. to 6:58 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
6:58:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON said  he  had misread  Amendment  1 and  that                                                               
under Amendment 1  [on page 2 of  the bill], lines 4  and 5 would                                                               
not be deleted.  Co-Chair  Josephson removed his objection to the                                                               
motion to adopt  Amendment 1.  There being  no further objection,                                                               
Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
6:59:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  moved to adopt Amendment  2, labeled 30-                                                               
LS0105\D.3, which read as follows:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6, lines 3 - 9:                                                                                                       
          Delete all material and insert:                                                                                       
          "Sec. 41.23.289. Penalty. (a) A person who                                                                          
     violates a  provision of, or regulation  adopted under,                                                                    
     AS 41.23.280  - 41.23.289 is  guilty of a  violation as                                                                    
     defined in AS 11.81.900.                                                                                                   
          (b)  The supreme court shall establish by order                                                                       
     or  rule  a schedule  of  bail  amounts for  violations                                                                    
     under (a)  of this  section that allow  the disposition                                                                    
     of a citation without a court appearance.                                                                                  
        * Sec. 2. The uncodified  law of the State of Alaska                                                                  
     is amended by adding a new section to read:                                                                                
          TRANSITION:    SCHEDULE     OF    BAIL    AMOUNTS.                                                                    
     Notwithstanding AS  41.23.289(b), enacted by sec.  1 of                                                                    
     this Act,  the supreme  court shall  have 90  days from                                                                    
     the  date  that  the Department  of  Natural  Resources                                                                    
     adopts regulations  to implement this Act  to establish                                                                    
     a  schedule  of  bail  amounts  for  violations  of  AS                                                                    
     41.23.289(a) that  allow the disposition of  a citation                                                                    
     without a court appearance."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  explained Amendment 2 would  clarify the                                                               
penalty section of  the proposed bill, found on page  6, lines 3-                                                               
9.  The  amendment would delete the statutory  reference to arson                                                               
in  the 3rd  degree -  which is  burning a  vehicle -  and insert                                                               
transitional language  which would  provide the supreme  court 90                                                               
days after  DNR adopts regulations  to issue a bail  schedule for                                                               
violations.   He said  violations would be  developed as  part of                                                               
the management plan, and urged for the amendment to be adopted.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  asked  to  hear   testimony  from  DNR  regarding                                                               
Amendment 2.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GOODRUM said  that  [Amendment  2] would  allow  DNR, as  it                                                               
develops the management plan, to  create regulations related to a                                                               
bail  schedule,  and  thus  monetary  fees  can  be  imposed  for                                                               
violations of regulations  that could be enforced  by troopers or                                                               
peace  officers.    The  provision  gives  enforcement  authority                                                               
within a public use area,  which is critically important, because                                                               
otherwise rules won't be followed.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR  surmised Amendment  2  would  give authority  for                                                               
enforcement, but it  would be the responsibility  of the troopers                                                               
to administer the law were there a violation.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. GOODRUM  noted only  a trooper  or a  peace officer  would be                                                               
authorized to issue citations based upon regulations.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON, in  order to  provide an  example of  a bail                                                               
schedule, read from  a schedule of penalties for  KRPUA in Alaska                                                               
Rules of  Court 2016-2017 Edition, Rules  of Administration, Rule                                                               
43.10 as follows:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     If  you leave  a vehicle  unattended for  more than  72                                                                    
     hours, you  can be fined  $300. ... If you  discharge a                                                                    
     firearm  at  an  unauthorized   target,  you  could  be                                                                    
     charged $50.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
7:03:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO pointed  out Amendment  2 also  states a                                                               
person is  "guilty of  a violation as  defined in  AS 11.81.900."                                                               
If  the  violations  are  already  well-defined  in  statute  and                                                               
identified in the bill, additional language may be redundant.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  advised AS 11.81.900 is  a blanket definition                                                               
of a violation and does not describe penalties.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. GOODRUM stated Co-Chair Josephson is correct.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON remarked:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The  concern  I  had  ... [the  bill]  seemed  to  say,                                                                    
     "Whatever you  do in Jonesville, unless  it's arson, is                                                                    
     fine."   ...   It  couldn't have  meant that.  ... It's                                                                    
     been fixed to my satisfaction ....                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
7:06:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR removed  her objection.   There  being no  further                                                               
objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   JOSEPHSON   announced   the  amendment   labeled   30-                                                               
LS0105\D.6, Shutts\Bullard, 2/3/17, would not be offered.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:07:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:07:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  moved to adopt Amendment  3, labeled 30-                                                               
LS0105\D.5, Bullard, 1/31/17, which read as follows:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4, following line 27:                                                                                                 
          Insert new material to read:                                                                                          
    "Section 9: All"                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 7, following "SW1/4NW1/4":                                                                                    
          Insert ";"                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 5, line 8:                                                                                                            
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON objected for discussion purposes.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  said that Amendment 3  would correct two                                                               
errors in  the land  description of  the affected  area.   In the                                                               
bill  as written,  [on  page 4,  lines 27  and  28] the  property                                                               
description mistakenly omitted Section  9, although Section 9 was                                                               
to be included.   In addition, the amendment  deletes Section 21,                                                               
which was included [in error] on  page 5, line 8, of the original                                                               
version of the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  asked Mr. Goodrum  to explain why  Section 21                                                               
is deleted  and why Sections  22 through  30 are not  included in                                                               
the land description.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. GOODRUM said that the inclusion  of Section 9 is necessary to                                                               
make the unit  "a whole unit."   He advised Section 21  is one of                                                               
the exterior sections  in the area, and if the  sponsor wishes to                                                               
delete this  section the department  is not opposed,  provided it                                                               
is a contiguous block.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
7:11:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:11:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  removed his  objection  to  Amendment 3  and                                                               
there being no further objection, Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
7:12:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  moved  to adopt  Amendment  4,  labeled  30-                                                               
LS0105\D.7, Wallace/Bullard, 2/3/17, which read as follows:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 3, following "Area":                                                                                          
          Insert "in a manner compatible with this section"                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  explained  Amendment   4  assures  that  any                                                               
continued  motorized  access for  miners  and  owners of  private                                                               
property would be  done in a compatible way.   However, Amendment                                                               
3 retains  similar language in  [subparagraph] (B), which  is now                                                               
[subparagraph] (C).                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:13:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:14:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  withdrew  Amendment  4.   He  announced  the                                                               
amendment  labeled 30-LS0105\D.8,  Wallace/Bullard, 2/3/17  would                                                               
not be offered.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
7:14:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON moved to adopt Amendment 5, labeled 30-                                                                      
LS0105\D.10, Bruce/Bullard, 2/3/17 which read as follows:                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 22:                                                                                                           
          Delete "off-road"                                                                                                     
          Insert "all-terrain"                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 25:                                                                                                           
          Delete "in a way that minimizes"                                                                                      
           Insert "to correct existing damage and to                                                                            
     minimize future"                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 25 - 26:                                                                                                     
          Delete "maintain and enhance off-road motor                                                                           
      vehicle options and opportunities in the Jonesville                                                                       
     Public Use Area,"                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON expressed his intent  to omit lines 1-3 of the                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR offered Conceptual Amendment  1, to delete lines 1-                                                               
4 of Amendment 5.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked for clarification.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  restated Conceptual Amendment 1  deletes lines 1-4                                                               
of Amendment 5.   There being no  objection, Conceptual Amendment                                                               
1 was adopted.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON, speaking to  Amendment 5, as amended, pointed                                                               
out that there is  no funding for any of the  provisions in HB 6.                                                               
However,  there is  existing damage  to the  area that  should be                                                               
mitigated  and   corrected  through  the  management   plan  when                                                               
appropriate,  based  on  available  resources,  and  to  minimize                                                               
future damage.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
7:19:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:19:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR offered Conceptual Amendment  2, to delete lines 8-                                                               
11  of  Amendment 5,  as  amended.    If  adopted, lines  5-8  of                                                               
Amendment 5 would remain for consideration.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER objected for discussion purposes.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR expressed  her understanding  that off-road  motor                                                               
vehicle options are existing uses  within a public use area, thus                                                               
deleting  the aforementioned  language would  not interfere  with                                                               
traditional uses of the area.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  removed his  objection, and  there being                                                               
no further objection, Conceptual Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON said that Amendment  5, as amended, was before                                                               
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  directed attention  to line 7  that adds                                                               
"to  correct existing  damage [and]  to minimize  future damage."                                                               
He asked  for clarification  as to  what extent  correct existing                                                               
damage would  be defined - and  the effect of the  added language                                                               
on the management plan - and asked for an opinion from DNR.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON   observed  that   Representative  Rauscher's                                                               
concern   could    also   apply    to   "shall    conduct   trail                                                               
rehabilitation," and asked DNR whether  there was some correction                                                               
of existing damage at KRPUA.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
7:24:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GOODRUM  noted the  proposed management  plan will  have many                                                               
considerations,  and  opined  the  current bill  would  have  the                                                               
management plan address  the area in its present  condition.  The                                                               
amendment adds  correcting existing damage and  minimizing future                                                               
damage,  and  would  add  another  layer  to  what  needs  to  be                                                               
considered, defined,  and resourced  within the  management plan.                                                               
He acknowledged  there were  efforts to  improve trail  access in                                                               
KRPUA,  which  has  been accomplished  by  working  with  partner                                                               
groups and  users of the  area, as  well as with  assistance from                                                               
the legislature.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON inquired as to  whether the department holds a                                                               
neutral position on the amendment.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. GOODRUM said, "... it's not very clear."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BIRCH stated  his concern  about falsely  raising                                                               
expectations   by  inserting   "to   correct  existing   damage."                                                               
Further, the existing  language "in a way  that minimizes" speaks                                                               
to  the effort  of the  bill, without  a cost  component, and  is                                                               
well-intended.  He cautioned that  the amendment implies there is                                                               
a major effort underway to correct existing damage.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  noted the  bill  has  no opposition  and                                                               
reflects  years of  work.    She questioned  the  purpose of  the                                                               
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON stated  he has  been  told that  the area  is                                                               
seriously damaged and  the intent of the amendment  is to correct                                                               
existing damage and minimize future damage.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
7:29:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH  pointed  out   the  bill  includes  trail                                                               
rehabilitation,  which  implies  repair and  correcting  existing                                                               
damages.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR asked  Mr.  Goodrum whether  any  of the  existing                                                               
damage  presents  a  health  and   safety  concern,  and  if  the                                                               
amendment is needed to ensure correction.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GOODRUM  supported  Representative  Parish's  remarks  about                                                               
trail  rehabilitation;  in fact,  the  planning  effort with  the                                                               
community, stakeholders, and users  will define the most critical                                                               
issues, and  health and  safety issues  will be  one of  the most                                                               
important, as is the intent of DNR.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TALERICO  noted that  the community of  Sutton has                                                               
provided a lot  of information and participation  in the project,                                                               
which will continue with the  development of the management plan.                                                               
He stressed  the vision  and wishes of  the local  community will                                                               
provide  a management  plan well-suited  for the  area and  which                                                               
would  remove   the  hazards,  and   concluded  Amendment   5  is                                                               
unnecessary.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER said  that for a long  time the community                                                               
of Sutton  has spent  time and  money working  very hard  on this                                                               
area,  along with  local businesses  that have  donated equipment                                                               
and time.  A playground was  built by the community with $150,000                                                               
of donated materials.  He  cautioned against amending the bill to                                                               
the point a  fiscal note is required, which  would jeopardize the                                                               
bill.     Representative  Rauscher  assured  the   committee  the                                                               
community of Sutton will deal with  the project "in a manner that                                                               
you will be proud of."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON remarked:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     I would note  for the record, there is  no fiscal note.                                                                    
     ...  [The  departments  have]  already  testified  that                                                                    
     they're   not   going   to  do   anything.   ...   I've                                                                    
     contemplated that  we should consider signing  a letter                                                                    
     of intent that  this be funded, and I may  take this up                                                                    
     in the subcommittee ....                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[For clarification to  the reader:  There were  three zero fiscal                                                               
notes attached  to HB 6  labeled, Identifier:   HB006-DFG-COM-01-                                                               
21-2017,  Identifier:   HB006-DPS-AST-01-21-17,  and  Identifier:                                                               
HB006-DPS-AWT-01-21-17.]                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON restated  that  the bill  is  not funded  and                                                               
already has  a need for  funding; he  was not trying  to redirect                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:36:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call  vote was taken.  Representatives  Tarr and Josephson                                                               
voted  in favor  of  Amendment 5,  as  amended.   Representatives                                                               
Westlake,  Drummond,   Parish,  Birch,  Johnson,   Rauscher,  and                                                               
Talerico voted against  it.  Therefore, Amendment  5, as amended,                                                               
failed by a vote of 2-7.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
7:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
7:39:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  moved  to adopt  Amendment  6,  labeled  30-                                                               
LS0105\D.14, Bullard, 2/15/17, which read as follows:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 17:                                                                                                           
          Delete all material.                                                                                                  
          Insert   "(B)    include   operating   all-terrain                                                                    
     vehicles on trails designated or constructed for their                                                                     
     use, aircraft, and watercraft,"                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 20, following "photography,":                                                                                 
          Insert "berry picking,"                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
       Page 3, line 21, following the first occurrence of                                                                       
     "and":                                                                                                                     
          Insert "lawful"                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER objected for discussion purposes.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  said that  the bill, as  written [on  page 3,                                                               
lines 13-17], directs  that the commissioner shall  allow the use                                                               
of all-terrain vehicles, aircraft, and watercraft.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON asked  for clarification  of "Delete  all                                                               
material."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  answered that in  Version D, on page  3, line                                                               
17 would  be deleted.  He  returned attention to Amendment  6 and                                                               
said he  has heard from  nearby residents that some  would prefer                                                               
to  see ATVs  used  in  areas that  are  specially designated  or                                                               
constructed for that purpose, thus  the first part of Amendment 6                                                               
would focus on not allowing  ATV use everywhere in the Jonesville                                                               
Public Use Area.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  offered Conceptual Amendment 1  with the                                                               
purpose to separate lines 1-4 of Amendment 6 from lines 5-10.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[The committee treated Conceptual Amendment 1 as withdrawn.]                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
7:44:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at ease from 7:44 p.m. to 7:46 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
7:46:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  asked  for  clarification  of  the  word                                                               
"lawful" as shown on line 10 of Amendment 6.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON responded that  throughout the bill the phrase                                                               
used is "permitted  mines," thus Amendment 6 seeks  to ensure any                                                               
mining that occurs would be lawful mining.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH suggested  that  the  committee focus  its                                                               
efforts on lines  1-4 of the amendment since  the remainder meets                                                               
the sponsor's approval.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WESTLAKE  opined "lawful" and "permitted"  are the                                                               
same thing.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOSEPHSON  explained some  mining  does  not require  a                                                               
permit, and the amendment is intended to be mining-friendly.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON asked for an opinion from DNR.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GOODRUM said  he  did not  have Amendment  6.   He  directed                                                               
attention  to  the  bill  on  page  3,  line  13,  and  said  any                                                               
activities allowed, permitted, or authorized  by DNR need to be a                                                               
lawful activity, and consistent with statute and regulation.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
7:49:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO  offered  a  conceptual  amendment  that                                                               
would add "or areas" after the word "trails" on line 3.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  stated [Conceptual  Amendment 2]  would read,                                                               
"The commissioner shall  allow the Jonesville Public  Use Area to                                                               
be  used  for  activities   that  include  operating  all-terrain                                                               
vehicles on trails  or areas designated or  constructed for their                                                               
use, aircraft,  and watercraft."   He asked  for an  opinion from                                                               
DNR.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GOODRUM  said the  management  plan  will be  a  challenging                                                               
process,  and   advised  the  additional  language   narrows  the                                                               
solutions to  be achieved through  the management plan.   Through                                                               
the management  plan, DNR will  engage with stakeholders  and the                                                               
public  about what  is most  important for  the residents  in the                                                               
area, and he  urged the committee to leave  some flexibility, and                                                               
thereby,  the  ability  for  the public  process  to  strive  for                                                               
solutions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  pointed out  at public hearings,  user groups                                                               
or  individuals can  express their  preference for  one use  over                                                               
another, and DNR "might, at your discretion, so designate."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
7:54:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  GOODRUM explained  that  the  use of  the  word "and"  means                                                               
[trails  and areas]  would  need to  be  designated and  probably                                                               
originally  constructed  for  that  specific  use;  many  of  the                                                               
activities that  currently take place within  the Jonesville area                                                               
occur by  happenstance, and the  current trails  were constructed                                                               
without  a specific  purpose.   He suggested  the word  "and" may                                                               
complicate the planning efforts.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH pointed  out  the actual  language in  the                                                               
amendment is not "and" but is "or."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. GOODRUM acknowledged "or" is  a better word; he restated that                                                               
every addition further constricts  solutions that can be achieved                                                               
through the management plan.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TALERICO, returning  attention to  the intent  of                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 2,  said during testimony he  heard that the                                                               
area has  been traditionally used  by residents who  are learning                                                               
to operate an ATV.   Trails have a designation, however, speaking                                                               
from his experience, if the  management plan seeks to include ATV                                                               
use, he  advised that an area  clear of trees and  cars is needed                                                               
for those learning to operate an ATV.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER   described  a   large  parcel   in  the                                                               
Jonesville mine area of reclaimed  coal [mine] flat land used for                                                               
recreational vehicle  parking and ATVs.   He cautioned  that this                                                               
is a  big challenge  for the  management of  the public  use area                                                               
(PUA), and the local community  is not looking for a four-wheeler                                                               
playground, which is what is there  now, but must consider all of                                                               
the  recreation listed  in  the bill.    Recently, the  community                                                               
renovated   a  hiking   trail   at  a   cost   of  $95,000,   and                                                               
Representative Rauscher said the  community needs latitude in the                                                               
PUA and the management plan.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR  questioned whether Mr. Goodrum  advised adding "or                                                               
areas"  would  make  it  more   difficult  to  achieve  hoped-for                                                               
solutions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:00:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. GOODRUM answered he was  previously speaking to the amendment                                                               
labeled 30-LS0105\D.9,  and not  to Conceptual  Amendment 2.   In                                                               
speaking to Conceptual  Amendment 2 to Amendment 6,  he said that                                                               
although  he  agrees that  the  language  of  "or areas"  in  the                                                               
conceptual  amendment  is  helpful, he  cautioned  the  committee                                                               
against the use of prescriptive language in the legislation.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
8:01:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  TARR removed  her objection.   There  being no  further                                                               
objection, Conceptual Amendment 2 to Amendment 6 was adopted.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON objected to Amendment 6, as amended.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:02:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was  taken.  Representatives Talerico, Westlake,                                                               
Drummond, Parish,  Birch, Johnson, Rauscher, Tarr,  and Josephson                                                               
voted in favor of Amendment  6, as amended.  Therefore, Amendment                                                               
6, as amended, was adopted by a vote of 9-0.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOSEPHSON  announced HB  6, as  amended, was  before the                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  stated her  support  for  the bill,  and                                                               
commended the community of Sutton on its "labor of love."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  expressed his appreciation for  the hard                                                               
work and effort  of the committee, staff, all  who testified, and                                                               
the community of Sutton.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH  stated his support  for the bill  and said                                                               
HB 6  is an  example of  a legitimate  reason for  government "to                                                               
step  in and  provide  some services  which,  which haven't  been                                                               
happening."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
8:05:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR TARR moved to report HB  6, as amended, out of committee                                                               
with individual recommendations and  the accompanying zero fiscal                                                               
notes.   There being no  objection, CSHB 6(RES) was  reported out                                                               
of the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
8:06:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 8:06 p.m.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB006 Amendment D.1.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.2.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.3.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.5.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.6.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.7.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.8.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.9.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.10.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.13.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6
HB006 Amendment D.14.pdf HRES 2/15/2017 6:00:00 PM
HB 6