Legislature(2013 - 2014)BARNES 124

02/03/2014 01:00 PM RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 163 REGULATION OF SOLID FUEL BURNING DEVICES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 268 BIG BULL MOOSE DERBIES TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 244 ADVISORY COMMISSION ON FEDERAL MGT AREAS TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        February 3, 2014                                                                                        
                           1:05 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Eric Feige, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Dan Saddler, Co-Chair                                                                                            
Representative Peggy Wilson, Vice Chair                                                                                         
Representative Mike Hawker                                                                                                      
Representative Craig Johnson                                                                                                    
Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                       
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
Representative Geran Tarr                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 163                                                                                                              
"An Act prohibiting a person  from burning certain materials in a                                                               
solid fuel burning device; relating  to solid fuel burning device                                                               
emission standards;  and relating to prohibitions  on the burning                                                               
of solid fuels."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 268                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to big bull moose derbies."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 244                                                                                                              
"An Act extending the termination date of the Citizens' Advisory                                                                
Commission on Federal Management Areas in Alaska; and providing                                                                 
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 244 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 163                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: REGULATION OF SOLID FUEL BURNING DEVICES                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) T.WILSON                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
03/11/13       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/11/13       (H)       CRA, RES                                                                                               
03/21/13       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/21/13       (H)       Moved Out of Committee                                                                                 
03/21/13       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
03/22/13       (H)       CRA RPT 5DP                                                                                            
03/22/13       (H)       DP: FOSTER, REINBOLD, DRUMMOND, LEDOUX,                                                                
                         NAGEAK                                                                                                 
04/06/13       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
04/06/13       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/06/13       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/03/14       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 268                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: BIG BULL MOOSE DERBIES                                                                                             
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) T.WILSON                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
01/21/14       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/21/14       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/03/14       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 244                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ADVISORY COMMISSION ON FEDERAL MGT AREAS                                                                           
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KELLER, MILLETT, HUGHES, FEIGE,                                                                   
PRUITT, CHENAULT, OLSON, ISAACSON, THOMPSON, NEUMAN, STOLTZE,                                                                   
LYNN, SADDLER                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
01/21/14       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/10/14                                                                               
01/21/14       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/21/14       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/03/14       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE WILSON                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  As sponsor of HB 163, outlined provisions                                                                
of the proposed committee substitute, Version G.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ALICE EDWARDS, Director                                                                                                         
Division of Air Quality                                                                                                         
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC)                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions related to HB 163.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE WILSON                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  As the sponsor, introduced HB 268.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ANNA KIM, Chief of Revenue Options                                                                                              
Tax Division                                                                                                                    
Department of Revenue (DOR)                                                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions related to HB 268.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AL BARRETTE                                                                                                                     
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 268.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE PIERCE                                                                                                                   
Kasilof, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in opposition to HB 268.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DAN JORDAN, Head Rifle Coach                                                                                                    
University of Alaska, Fairbanks (UAF)                                                                                           
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 268.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
GRANT LEWIS, President                                                                                                          
Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association (TVSA)                                                                                    
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 268.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL TINKER                                                                                                                  
Ester, Alaska                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 268.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ROWENA PALOMAR, Executive Director                                                                                              
Advocates for Victims of Violence, Inc. (AVV)                                                                                   
Valdez, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 268.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DARRYL VERFAILLIE, Director                                                                                                     
Parks, Recreation, and Cultural Services                                                                                        
City of Valdez Parks and Recreation                                                                                             
Valdez, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 268.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JOE KOSS, Tax Auditor                                                                                                           
Gaming Group                                                                                                                    
Tax Division                                                                                                                    
Department of Revenue (DOR)                                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions related to HB 268.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WES KELLER                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  As the sponsor, introduced HB 244.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RON SOMMERVILLE, Board Member                                                                                                   
Citizens' Advisory Commission on Federal Areas (CACFA)                                                                          
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 244.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
STAN LEAPHART, Executive Director                                                                                               
Citizens' Advisory Commission on Federal Areas (CACFA)                                                                          
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 244.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
AL BARRETTE                                                                                                                     
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke in support of HB 244.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:05:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  DAN   SADDLER  called  the  House   Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting  to order at  1:05 p.m.   Representatives Tarr,                                                               
Kawasaki, P. Wilson, Feige, and  Saddler were present at the call                                                               
to  order.   Representatives Seaton,  Hawker, Johnson,  and Olson                                                               
arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
        HB 163-REGULATION OF SOLID FUEL BURNING DEVICES                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:06:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  announced that the  first order of  business is                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 163,  "An Act prohibiting  a person  from burning                                                               
certain materials  in a  solid fuel  burning device;  relating to                                                               
solid  fuel burning  device emission  standards; and  relating to                                                               
prohibitions  on  the  burning  of solid  fuels."    [Before  the                                                               
committee was the proposed committee  substitute (CS) for HB 163,                                                               
Version  28-LS0248\R,  Nauman,  4/4/13, adopted  as  the  working                                                               
document on 4/6/13.]                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:06:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON moved  to adopt the  proposed committee                                                               
substitute  (CS)   for  HB  163,  Version   28-LS0248\G,  Nauman,                                                               
1/27/14,  as the  working document.   There  being no  objection,                                                               
Version G was before the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:07:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE  WILSON, Alaska State  Legislature, sponsor                                                               
of HB 163,  outlined the provisions of Version G.   She noted the                                                               
bill's  length is  shortened due  to the  proposed [air  quality]                                                               
regulations being  put forth by  the Department  of Environmental                                                               
Conservation (DEC).  She explained  that the Fairbanks North Star                                                               
Borough  has  been  designated  a  particulate  matter  (PM)  2.5                                                               
nonattainment area  by the  U.S. Environmental  Protection Agency                                                               
(EPA).   Space  heating  devices, predominantly  wood and  pellet                                                               
stoves and hydronic  heaters, are being used by  a growing number                                                               
of Fairbanks residents to heat  homes and businesses.  The amount                                                               
of wood burning has nearly  doubled since 2006, a direct response                                                               
to increases  in the  price of  heating oil and  the lack  of low                                                               
cost, clean  burning, alternative  fuels.  A  governmental agency                                                               
should not be allowed to shut  down a resident's right to utilize                                                               
a  certified  appliance  burning approved  materials,  unless  an                                                               
emergency  arises, she  asserted.   Version  G  would require  an                                                               
emergency [prohibition] by  the governor for an area  to have its                                                               
wood burning completely banned and  would set the emergency level                                                               
at  351 micrograms  per  cubic  meter [of  air],  the same  level                                                               
included in  DEC's proposed  regulations.   Version G  would also                                                               
put  into statute  the  list of  things  that, under  regulation,                                                               
cannot legally  be burned in a  wood stove or coal  burner.  This                                                               
includes  such things  as painted  material,  railroad ties,  and                                                               
tires,  to help  people  understand what  should  not be  burned.                                                               
Unfortunately, when  people do  burn those  items, it  is because                                                               
they cannot  afford the heating  oil.  This  is all about  a high                                                               
cost of  energy, she stressed.   As  heating oil has  become more                                                               
expensive, those in  the Bush have had much  higher expenses than                                                               
other communities  and have turned to  alternative sources, which                                                               
includes  wood,  pellets,  and  coal.    Many  of  the  borough's                                                               
businesses have  turned to coal  burners, which are  cleaner than                                                               
some of  the hand-loaded  wood stoves.   Hand-loaded  wood stoves                                                               
smolder  when  they  cool  down, she  explained,  which  goes  on                                                               
throughout the day  [as they burn the wood supply]  and then have                                                               
to be manually  re-filled.  However, pellet and  coal stoves have                                                               
an automatic feed that keeps the temperature constant.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON said the  bill has some issues,  so she                                                               
is  requesting  the  committee  to  hold the  bill  today.    She                                                               
reported DEC is  concerned the bill will cause  the department to                                                               
be unable  to enforce  what cannot  be burned,  which is  not her                                                               
intent and  which she  will discuss  further with  DEC.   Also of                                                               
concern to DEC  is the five-year sunset, a date  she chose in the                                                               
hope that  there would  be affordable  energy by  then.   The DEC                                                               
commissioner would feel better with  a two-year sunset, she said.                                                               
The state is  required to make an implementation  plan that shows                                                               
the EPA  how the  state is  going to  get from  one point  to the                                                               
next.   However, the numbers are  ever moving because the  EPA is                                                               
always  lowering  the number.    When  EPA lowered  [the  maximum                                                               
level]  from 65  micrograms per  cubic meter  to 35,  it put  the                                                               
borough into  its current problem.   Had the level stayed  at 65,                                                               
the borough would have been okay  for a few more years; although,                                                               
she conceded, the  borough would probably be  in nonattainment at                                                               
this point because more wood is being burned.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:11:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  inquired about the significance  of the microgram                                                               
number of 351, as per page 1, line 10, Version G.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON responded this number  is the emergency                                                               
level proposed in  the DEC regulations brought  to her community,                                                               
so she put this number in the bill.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:12:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  asked whether  the 351 micrograms  is an                                                               
acceptable level  and whether [DEC]  has set an  acceptable level                                                               
for pollution.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON replied that  351 is the number  set as                                                               
the point for  emergency [by DEC].  However, as  she has told the                                                               
DEC commissioner, she is not married  to this number if DEC wants                                                               
to recommend a different number.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  stated that if EPA  is constantly trying                                                               
to ratchet down the microgram  level, then putting 351 micrograms                                                               
into statute would result in having  to change the statute if EPA                                                               
changes the acceptable  limits.  He asked why the  proposal is to                                                               
do the level by statute rather than by regulation.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  answered that right now  the state must                                                               
get  down to  35  micrograms,  not 351.    An  emergency is  when                                                               
[particulates] rise  to a certain  level and the question  is how                                                               
far over that level it should get  to call an emergency.  In this                                                               
bill, she is trying to look  through the eyes of her constituents                                                               
regarding an  emergency.  People  leave for work with  their wood                                                               
stoves burning,  she stated.   The proposed regulations  say that                                                               
immediate  action  can  be  taken  if  it  gets  to  an  episode.                                                               
However, since  this plan has not  been seen, it is  unknown what                                                               
an immediate action  is.  She expressed concern  about people who                                                               
have to leave work to go home  to shut down their wood stoves and                                                               
hope  they have  enough oil  to last  for the  number of  days it                                                               
takes  for  the air  quality  to  reach  a  certain level.    She                                                               
questioned if  people can  be asked  to go  through that  kind of                                                               
stress on a  day-to-day basis.  She  said she is in  favor of the                                                               
borough's current  volunteer shutdowns to improve  the change-out                                                               
programs, she said, or possibly  subsidizing oil in certain areas                                                               
that are  worse.  When people  are forced to shut  down qualified                                                               
stoves while using  the dry wood they are supposed  to use, it is                                                               
like grouping  everyone together on  the highway and  picking out                                                               
five or  six cars because  there are too  many cars on  the road.                                                               
She asked  what can be  done until technology improves  so people                                                               
feel that  they can stay in  the community.  She  said the number                                                               
of micrograms can be discussed by DEC staff or the commissioner.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI asked  what the  sponsor envisions  will                                                               
happen if  the level is exceeded,  given that the level  would be                                                               
in statute  rather than regulations,  and the proposed  bill does                                                               
not address what happens in the case of an emergency.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.  WILSON  concurred the  bill  would  supersede                                                               
regulations  should [DEC]  want the  number to  be lower  and the                                                               
immediate action to be a forcible  shutdown.  That is what she is                                                               
trying to prevent by taking it  to the level of an emergency, she                                                               
said,  "and to  an  elected official,  one who's  a  head of  our                                                               
state, that  that should be  his decision and not  a commissioner                                                               
or someone  else down  the line, when  you're talking  about this                                                               
degree of impact on a community."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:16:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON noted  a number  of businesses  burn waste                                                               
petroleum products,  one of the  prohibited items  within Section                                                               
2, but  they are not  burning the  waste petroleum products  in a                                                               
wood or coal  designed furnace.  He surmised there  is nothing in                                                               
the  bill  that  would  impact someone  burning  waste  petroleum                                                               
products in a burner designed for liquid waste products.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  agreed, saying such a  burner would not                                                               
be a solid fuel burning heating device as defined.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:18:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked  what  the  consequences  are  for                                                               
violating the fuel prohibitions in Section 2.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  replied that DEC's process  is to first                                                               
write a  letter to the person  and ultimately take the  person to                                                               
court.  In  further response, she said she did  not know what the                                                               
amount of a fine could be.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER, regarding page 1,  line 9, that the prohibition                                                               
be  authorized by  the governor,  inquired whether  the sponsor's                                                               
intention is  that it must  be the  governor personally or  if it                                                               
could be the governor's designee.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  responded that this could  have a major                                                               
impact to an  area of the state,  so she would like it  to be the                                                               
governor since the  governor is the elected  official heading the                                                               
state.   [Subsection  (k), page  1,  lines 6-7,]  is included  in                                                               
Version  G,  she  added,  because  Juneau  already  has  a  State                                                               
Implementation  Plan and  is therefore  exempted from  this bill.                                                               
She further  noted that she  is working with the  Municipality of                                                               
Anchorage to  answer its questions  and ensure the bill  does not                                                               
negatively impact  that community.  Responding  to Representative                                                               
Seaton, she  explained that  subsection (k)  is referring  to the                                                               
City and Borough of Juneau because it  is the only one that has a                                                               
wood smoke control area designated by name in state regulation.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER understood the repealer  in Section 4 is because                                                               
the sponsor is  assuming that good things will be  coming "down a                                                               
pipeline" in the future.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON said Section  4 would bring it  back to                                                               
the  legislature again,  at which  point it  can be  assessed for                                                               
whether this needs to be continued.   For example, there could be                                                               
improved technology with the solid  fuel burning devices or a gas                                                               
supply of some sort could have reached the borough by then.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:21:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI, regarding  the governor authorizing this                                                               
type of prohibition, noted that  Fairbanks has ceded this type of                                                               
control over to the state.   He asked, however, whether the state                                                               
and governor  making a decision  on air quality, rather  than the                                                               
local community, is really the kind of policy that is wanted.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON answered the governor  already has this                                                               
power  during an  emergency  and she  would take  it  up a  notch                                                               
because she thinks  it is absolutely for the governor  to do.  In                                                               
the past  the state has  been a big  player in how  her community                                                               
has  done energy,  such as  electricity and  major projects,  and                                                               
with that  comes some  responsibility.  When  it came  to whether                                                               
her  community  was   going  to  try  meeting   the  air  quality                                                               
[standards], it was the state that  made an agreement with EPA to                                                               
get the  community to meet any  new numbers, no matter  what that                                                               
may take from the  community.  The point of HB  163, she said, is                                                               
to  refocus  that  Fairbanks  is  trying to  bring  in  the  best                                                               
technology and  replace older equipment  to improve  air quality.                                                               
Not understood  is why  the air quality  cannot just  get better;                                                               
instead, EPA's bottom  line is that this number must  be met even                                                               
though the  community cannot do  it with the best  technology out                                                               
there.  She  said it is going  to take some other  type of energy                                                               
besides even heating  oil because heating oil is also  at PM 2.5.                                                               
Five years from now, if Fairbanks  still does not have gas or the                                                               
governor has had  to frequently call an emergency,  this will put                                                               
pressure on  the state  that it  must be a  player.   The borough                                                               
does not have  the finances, nor should it have  to put its money                                                               
there, when the state itself has not done it, she opined.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:23:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  inquired  about  local  ordinances  and  voter                                                               
initiatives that the borough has adopted throughout the past.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON reiterated that the  EPA keeps changing                                                               
the numbers.   Another episode was in 2008, she  said, when then-                                                               
governor  Sarah Palin  gave  $1,200 to  each  state resident  for                                                               
energy needs.   The month people received that  money, along with                                                               
their  permanent fund  dividend,  the price  of  oil jumped  over                                                               
night to  almost $5 per  gallon.  People  went into a  panic mode                                                               
and bought  outdoor boilers,  which are  meant for  big buildings                                                               
rather  than homes,  and this  increased the  air quality  issues                                                               
even more.   The borough then  came up with an  ordinance, mostly                                                               
because of  pressure from the  EPA.  The  EPA only gives  so much                                                               
credit  for  voluntary  measures  even when  those  measures  are                                                               
working,  she  stated.    Pressure   is  being  put  on  the  DEC                                                               
commissioner  to  do  enforcement   on  Fairbanks  to  bring  the                                                               
community into compliance because that  is what the EPA requires,                                                               
but weather  inversion is  the number one  reason the  borough is                                                               
having issues.   She said it  is the big power  plants which fill                                                               
up the  top of the  airshed, wood stoves  fill the next  level of                                                               
the  airshed, and  car emissions  fill the  lowest level.   Using                                                               
state funding, the  borough did a wood  stove change-out program,                                                               
but unlike  Libby, MT, which  did a one-on-one swap,  the borough                                                               
required that a  borough employee come in to take  a picture, the                                                               
homeowner had to  have the money up front, put  in the paperwork,                                                               
and then bring  in the [new] appliance.  Taking  a picture was an                                                               
issue because the  people in her community are  not very friendly                                                               
when government wants to come into  their homes, she noted.  When                                                               
the borough decides to fine  people during these times, citizens'                                                               
initiatives are put  out that say the borough  cannot fine people                                                               
for trying to heat their homes.   This puts it on the state level                                                               
and  the city  level of  Fairbanks and  North Pole,  but not  the                                                               
borough itself, because  it is still the peoples'  intent that as                                                               
technology improves and  as gas gets to homes,  [air quality will                                                               
improve].   For  example, it  was not  the local  testing of  car                                                               
emissions at a cost of $70  per car every two years that improved                                                               
air quality;  rather, it  was because  technology got  better and                                                               
old cars died.   Unfortunately, wood stoves do not  die as easily                                                               
as cars do and people become  very attached to them.  Once people                                                               
see how much  better the new technology is, they  will do it, but                                                               
it must be made to work in that direction, she stated.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:28:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON, in response to two questions from Co-                                                                 
Chair  Saddler, defined  airshed as  the ambient  air measurement                                                               
done by  monitors.  A hydronic  heater, she explained, is  a big,                                                               
rectangular, outdoor wood stove hooked  up to a water heater that                                                               
only needs  to be  filled once  a day.   Hydronic heaters  do not                                                               
work quite as well because the whole  wood used in them is not as                                                               
dry as split wood, plus the heaters  are not turned up as high as                                                               
they need to be because the area being heated in homes is small.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE noted natural gas is being burned in Eagle River.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:29:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR stated  that  some of  the prohibited  items                                                               
listed in  proposed AS 46.14.570 produce  fine particulate matter                                                               
when combusted and  therefore have some influence  in overall air                                                               
quality measurements.  She asked  why this proposed statute would                                                               
be repealed  on January 1, 2019,  as per Section 4  of Version G,                                                               
given those items should never be burned in a wood stove.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T. WILSON  replied  she does  not understand  the                                                               
question because  those items  are listed  in regulation  and are                                                               
only relisted in the bill.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR suggested  that repeal  of these  prohibited                                                               
items  may not  be wanted  because  the burning  of plastics  and                                                               
rubber products is something that should never be done.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T. WILSON  conceded that  is a  good point.   She                                                               
said the  repeal is more  related to  the first part  rather than                                                               
the second, so she will consider the suggestion.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:31:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  posited that a technological  advance could occur                                                               
in the  next five years  that would allow those  prohibited items                                                               
to be burned because they would not contribute to air pollution.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  agreed, saying things have  come a long                                                               
way; for  example, some stoves now  take wood or oil.   Section 4                                                               
would require a review of all prohibited items in five years.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:32:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  inquired whether  the list  of prohibited                                                               
items  would  be  applied  to   all  municipalities  or  only  to                                                               
Fairbanks.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.  WILSON  answered   it  would  be  applied  to                                                               
Anchorage as well as Fairbanks.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON   noted  that  Anchorage  does   its  own                                                               
monitoring and  can now do  its own  emergency orders.   He asked                                                               
whether this would prevent Anchorage from having that ability.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded that  she does not believe so,                                                               
but she is  having discussions with Anchorage and  will make sure                                                               
that Anchorage's questions are addressed.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON related there  are people in Anchorage who                                                               
burn  for aesthetics  rather  than  heat and  for  this they  use                                                               
treated  plastic  logs  purchased  at Fred  Meyer's.    He  asked                                                               
whether HB 163 would  ban the sale or use of  that product in any                                                               
place in Alaska during an emergency order.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  replied that is not her  intent, so she                                                               
will make  sure that  the bill  does not.   She pointed  out that                                                               
Anchorage, Fairbanks,  and Juneau have air  quality programs, but                                                               
the Wasilla area is the next  community that will probably have a                                                               
problem with  the PM 2.5;  therefore, she will ensure  this point                                                               
applies to any community.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON offered  his agreement with Representative                                                               
Kawasaki about keeping this with  the city rather than putting it                                                               
in the state's  hand, especially in Anchorage  where that control                                                               
has not been given up and Anchorage still does the monitoring.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON answered that is  why it is just  on an                                                               
emergency level  and the  prohibited item  list is  already there                                                               
for  the state.   It  is not  her intent  to step  on any  of the                                                               
municipalities.  Her  intent is to ensure that when  there is the                                                               
possibility of  a huge negative impact,  it is known who  will be                                                               
making those calls.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON  thanked  the sponsor  for  working  with                                                               
Anchorage in regard to the bill.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:35:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI noted  that the issue of  air quality has                                                               
long been  worked on  in Fairbanks,  and [state]  regulations are                                                               
currently being  promulgated.  Given  that a quicker  solution is                                                               
wanted rather than  a slower one, he inquired what  impact HB 163                                                               
will have on the regulations currently being drafted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON responded  that DEC  has said  it wants                                                               
sold only  those stoves that  put out 2.5 [micrograms]  per hour,                                                               
and "the  borough would  still be  able to  be allowed  in this."                                                               
The  intent is  that  DEC could  still go  after  people who  are                                                               
burning  prohibited items,  but  Legislative  Legal and  Research                                                               
Services has  said that that  portion of  the bill could  be much                                                               
clearer.  All volunteer activities  and programs could still take                                                               
place.  "It just  takes it to a notch to  where you are literally                                                               
doing  a complete  banning  of  an energy  source  would make  it                                                               
clearer  on who  could absolutely  do  that portion  of it,"  she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI expressed  his concern that if  a bill is                                                               
passed by the legislature it will  take a long time to promulgate                                                               
the regulations.   Delay has caused a lot of  people in Fairbanks                                                               
to  move, he  said, so  he  does not  want  to see  any delay  in                                                               
implementing some sort of a policy to  get to the root of the air                                                               
pollution issue in the Fairbanks area.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P.  WILSON agreed  and said that  is why  the bill                                                               
version  that comes  back to  the committee  will not  impact the                                                               
majority of what  is in the proposed regulations.   She clarified                                                               
that they  are proposed  regulations and  DEC is  currently going                                                               
through  the hundreds  of comments  it has  received.   The final                                                               
regulations will  be part of  the State Implementation  Plan, she                                                               
explained, and passing  a bill now is less likely  to slow things                                                               
down  than waiting  until after  finalization of  the regulations                                                               
and plan.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:37:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE asked  whether the  list of  prohibited items  is                                                               
enforced  at all  times or  only  when the  governor declares  an                                                               
emergency.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied those  items cannot be burned in                                                               
a solid  fuel burning  heating device  at any  time.   In further                                                               
response, she confirmed that these  prohibited items are included                                                               
in current regulations.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE  inquired  whether  there  is  an  exemption  for                                                               
burning  the prohibited  items in  a rural  area, for  example, a                                                               
remote  mining   camp,  where  there  would   be  no  significant                                                               
detriment to the overall air quality.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.   WILSON  answered  there  is   no  exemption.                                                               
However,  she  clarified, it  is  a  solid fuel  burning  heating                                                               
device being talked  about here, so it might be  different for an                                                               
open bonfire.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FEIGE  said these  remote  camps  use incinerators  for                                                               
getting rid of all kinds of  things, including some of the things                                                               
on the prohibited list.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON responded  that incinerators  would not                                                               
be  included  in HB  163  because  the  bill defines  solid  fuel                                                               
burning  heating device,  and those  prohibited  items cannot  be                                                               
burned in  that type  of device.   If not in  an urban  area, the                                                               
odds of  DEC imposing  a fine  are probably  little to  none, she                                                               
said, but these items still should  not be burned in a solid fuel                                                               
burning heating device as defined in the bill.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:40:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER,  regarding page 1, line  10, asked whether                                                               
"region" is a defined term.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied  the bill's terminology is taken                                                               
from the regulations  as proposed by DEC, so she  assumes DEC has                                                               
that definition.  Her community  is a nonattainment area, so most                                                               
of the rules being talked about pertain to that actual region.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HAWKER  said it seems  vague to him because  if it                                                               
is not defined then it is unclear what constitutes the region.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON agreed and  said she will make  sure it                                                               
is defined.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:42:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON inquired  whether  the intent  of page  1,                                                               
lines   9-10,  is   that  the   governor  cannot   authorize  the                                                               
prohibition under any other circumstances.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.  WILSON  answered  neither  the  governor  nor                                                               
anyone  else could  mandatorily shut  down a  region's wood-fired                                                               
devices unless the level [is  at 351 micrograms per cubic meter].                                                               
She said  she will talk  further with the DEC  commissioner about                                                               
whether that number is correct.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON asked  whether  there is,  or  will be,  a                                                               
definition of treated wood.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded she will find out.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  explained he  is bringing this  up because                                                               
of  Representative Johnson's  question  about pressed  logs.   He                                                               
posited  it could  get into  a situation  where someone  sues the                                                               
state claiming that pellets are treated wood.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER understood only the  governor could call the ban                                                               
and the ban could only be called if the standard is exceeded.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON said he is correct.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:45:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI inquired  how  HB 163  would impact  the                                                               
regulations currently being promulgated by DEC.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ALICE EDWARDS,  Director, Division of Air  Quality, Department of                                                               
Environmental  Conservation (DEC),  said  the  division is  still                                                               
looking through  Version G and  has had initial  discussions with                                                               
the bill  sponsor.  The division  still needs to clarify  some of                                                               
that  so it  understands what  the implications  would be  to the                                                               
regulatory  proposals  that have  gone  out  for public  comment.                                                               
Therefore, she said,  she cannot speak to that until  DEC has had                                                               
more time to review the proposed bill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  reported the borough and  the state have                                                               
been  going  round and  round  on  this  and people  are  leaving                                                               
Fairbanks due to  the energy costs and the air  quality.  A delay                                                               
would be  difficult for him if  the division thinks it  is moving                                                               
quickly on the  proposed regulations.  He asked  whether the bill                                                               
would impact the State Implementation Plan.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  EDWARDS  said  the  division  is  looking  at  the  bill  to                                                               
determine how it will impact  the State Implementation Plan, both                                                               
the parts  that are already in  place as well as  the future plan                                                               
for the Fairbanks  North Star Borough.  Clearly,  the division is                                                               
trying  to find  solutions and  make emission  reductions in  the                                                               
borough's nonattainment  area as  expeditiously as possible.   It                                                               
is important the  division take that into  context when reviewing                                                               
this bill.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:47:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI queried whether  351 micrograms per cubic                                                               
meter of air is exactly what is in current regulation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS replied  that number was in the proposal.   A section                                                               
in  the existing  air quality  regulations  deals with  emergency                                                               
types of episodes,  and for most pollutants the  division has set                                                               
three different levels  of standards: an episode,  a warning, and                                                               
an emergency.   The 351 micrograms  per cubic meter at  a 24-hour                                                               
average  is DEC's  new proposal  for the  highest level  for fine                                                               
particulate matter; those have not yet been adopted.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  paraphrased from  the Air  Quality Index                                                               
regarding 351  micrograms per  cubic meter  in a  24-hour period:                                                               
"everyone should  avoid physical  activity outdoors;  people with                                                               
heart  and lung  disease,  older adults,  children should  remain                                                               
indoors; keep  activity levels very  low."  He asked  whether the                                                               
state has  given thought  to making the  standard higher  than is                                                               
currently proposed.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  EDWARDS answered  DEC  is  looking at  the  comments it  has                                                               
received on  that proposal.   She confirmed  it does tie  back to                                                               
the Air Quality Index and for  the episode level DEC has proposed                                                               
56,  which is  when  it is  unhealthy for  all  individuals.   An                                                               
intermediate step and an emergency level were also proposed.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:49:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER queried  about the timeline for  delivery of the                                                               
proposed regulations.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS  responded the  comment period closed  at the  end of                                                               
January [2014] and many hundreds  of comments were received.  The                                                               
division  is working  to move  through those  relatively quickly,                                                               
but there  is a lot of  information to look  at.  It will  take a                                                               
couple  of months  to  work  through the  comments  and with  the                                                               
commissioner and administration to get a final package.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:49:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON commented  that the proposed regulations                                                               
make  a  difference for  the  town  of  Fairbanks, while  DEC  is                                                               
concerned  about  the  actual  health of  the  people  living  in                                                               
Fairbanks.   While  there are  two  different angles  to look  at                                                               
this,  as a  parent  she would  want to  be  warned when  certain                                                               
levels are reached so she  could ensure her children are watching                                                               
TV instead of  running around.  She inquired whether  the town of                                                               
Fairbanks wants to change what DEC  has put into place so that it                                                               
does not have to close down as soon.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS,  qualifying she is  unsure of the  question, replied                                                               
that DEC does currently call  air quality advisories in Fairbanks                                                               
and will  continue to do so.   The setting of  the episode levels                                                               
formalizes concentrations for fine  particulate matter, which, to                                                               
this point, DEC  has not had in  regulation.  So, it  is new, but                                                               
is  a statewide  proposal that  would then  also factor  into the                                                               
situation in Fairbanks.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  P. WILSON  asked whether  the majority  of people                                                               
commenting  on  the  proposed regulations  were  for  or  against                                                               
putting these levels in place.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS  answered that federal  requirements calling  for the                                                               
establishment of  episode levels is  one reason why  the proposed                                                               
regulations were  brought forward.  The  department received many                                                               
comments from  people in  the community  about what  those levels                                                               
should be, and those are still being evaluated.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:52:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  TARR  inquired  whether the  majority  of  people                                                               
commenting wanted the regulations to  be stricter or more lenient                                                               
than proposed.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. EDWARDS responded  DEC is still looking at  the comments, but                                                               
comments are being seen in both directions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:52:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER held over HB  163, saying public testimony would                                                               
be held the next time the bill is brought up.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
                 HB 268-BIG BULL MOOSE DERBIES                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:53:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  announced that  the next  order of  business is                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 268, "An Act relating to big bull moose derbies."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  moved  to adopt  the  proposed  committee                                                               
substitute  (CS)   for  HB  268,  Version   28-LS0851\N,  Martin,                                                               
1/31/14,  as the  working document.   There  being no  objection,                                                               
Version N was before the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:53:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TAMMIE  WILSON, Alaska State  Legislature, Juneau,                                                               
Alaska, introduced HB  268 by reading from  the following sponsor                                                               
statement [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     House Bill 268 would  allow the Tanana Valley Sportsmen                                                                    
     Association to  raise funds for their  organization and                                                                    
     the   University  of   Fairbanks  Nanooks   Rifle  team                                                                    
     equally. The  big bull moose derbies  would be operated                                                                    
     much   like  other   contests  already   allowed  under                                                                    
     statute. This  will take place during  the annual moose                                                                    
     season,  by  individuals  that have  acquired  all  the                                                                    
     proper documentation  already implemented by  the State                                                                    
     of Alaska  to stay within  the legal boundaries  of the                                                                    
     moose  season.  Participants   must  purchase  a  derby                                                                    
     ticket prior to the open  day of the season. The winner                                                                    
     would  be determined  based on  the  bull antlers;  the                                                                    
     widest  spread  legally  taken   and  would  receive  a                                                                    
     predetermined  portion of  the  net  proceeds from  the                                                                    
     fund   raiser.  Anyone   who  enters   a  bull   would,                                                                    
     regardless  of the  antler spread,  be  entered into  a                                                                    
     drawing for prizes.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The Tanana  Valley Sportsmen's Association (TVSA)  is a                                                                    
     nonprofit   organization   that  hosts   training   and                                                                    
     completion events for  the nationally ranked University                                                                    
     of Alaska Nanooks Rifle Team  as well as the local high                                                                    
     schools. It  is home  to a  multitude of  community and                                                                    
     school  events; NCAA  tournaments, biathlon  training &                                                                    
     competition,   gun  safety   and  personal   protection                                                                    
     classes are among the many.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     House  Bill 268  would allow  the raising  of funds  to                                                                    
     further the use of the  TVSA club house and support the                                                                    
     efforts  of the  nationally  ranked  UAF Nanooks  Rifle                                                                    
     team who has produced Olympic level competitors.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON pointed  out that  Version N  adds [the                                                               
Snow Town Ice  Classic] to the bill, which  would be administered                                                               
by the Advocates for Victims of  Violence, Inc. (AVV).  The state                                                               
has  various  kinds  of  derbies,  such  as  salmon  and  halibut                                                               
derbies, she  explained, and communities must  go through statute                                                               
to  be able  to conduct  these derbies.   The  capital budget  is                                                               
going down  and she has always  told her group that  she would be                                                               
behind any ideas it has for  fundraising, so that is what brought                                                               
this forward.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:56:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  inquired  whether  this  big  bull  moose                                                               
contest has been going on since before statehood.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  responded no, it would be new.   No one                                                               
has done it at all, so this is what they are asking to do.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON directed attention  to page 3, lines 18-20,                                                               
Version N,  which state:   "... an  activity may not  be licensed                                                               
under  this   chapter  unless   it  existed   in  the   state  in                                                               
substantially the  same form and  was conducted  in substantially                                                               
the same  manner before January 1,  1959."  He asked  whether the                                                               
proposed addition  of bull  moose derbies is  being put  into the                                                               
right section of the regulations,  given it did not exist before.                                                               
However,  he then  noted,  perhaps big  bull  moose derbies  fall                                                               
under the exception provision on page  3, line 14, Version N, and                                                               
it is therefore okay.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  offered   his  agreement  with  Representative                                                               
Seaton's  interpretation, saying  bill  drafters understand  this                                                               
sort of thing.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:57:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR,  regarding the mechanism, surmised  a person                                                               
would still  need to apply  for a permit through  the traditional                                                               
way,  so this  proposal would  not impact  the overall  number of                                                               
moose harvested.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON concurred, saying  a person who is going                                                               
hunting anyway  could purchase a  ticket in the hopes  of winning                                                               
some money  or a prize.   No more permits would  be given because                                                               
of this proposed derby.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER added  he thinks sports people  and hunters tend                                                               
to be big  hearted and want to support civic  activities, and the                                                               
Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association is a good activity.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:58:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  observed the sponsor  statement mentions                                                               
the Tanana  Valley Sportsmen's Association and  the University of                                                               
Alaska Nanooks Rifle  Team, but the proposed bill  does not state                                                               
that they  are the  specific permittee.   He  queried as  to what                                                               
happens if someone other than  these two organizations would like                                                               
to be a permittee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON replied  that absolutely anyone can take                                                               
advantage  of it;  someone wanting  to  have just  a moose  derby                                                               
rather than  a big bull  moose derby could do  so.  She  said her                                                               
bill is  exclusively to help  these groups  and that is  how they                                                               
anticipate using  it, but somebody  in another part of  the state                                                               
could have a different type if it wanted to.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:59:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  observed  that   Version  N  specifically  and                                                               
repeatedly states  "big" bull  moose derby,  but in  the existing                                                               
language there  is no "big" king  salmon.  He inquired  about the                                                               
necessity of the modifier "big".                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON  answered it is the name  that the rifle                                                               
team liked  and how they  are going to  promote it.   She brought                                                               
the name  forward because at  the time  she did not  realize that                                                               
anybody could use it.  She said  she would be willing to accept a                                                               
friendly amendment  that takes out  "big" or  makes it just  be a                                                               
moose derby.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:00:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER  offered his  support  for  the bill,  but                                                               
suggested "ice  classics" in the  title be tightened.   The state                                                               
has many  ice classics, he  said, and anything could  be inserted                                                               
into  the  bill  that  could   affect  any  one  of  these  other                                                               
functioning ice  classics rather  than having it  be as  the bill                                                               
intends to  be, which  is specific authority  for "the  Snow Town                                                               
Ice Classic to be operated  and administered by the Advocates for                                                               
Victims of  Violence, Inc."   He said  this change could  be made                                                               
any time before the bill goes to the House floor.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:02:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked  what the Snow Town  Ice Classic is                                                               
and what the organization is.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON deferred to Co-Chair Feige.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE  first offered  his agreement  with Representative                                                               
Hawker regarding the title.   He then noted that he  is now a co-                                                               
sponsor  of the  bill and  thanked Representative  T. Wilson  for                                                               
adding the Snow Town Ice Classic  language.  He said this classic                                                               
is in  Valdez, and Advocates for  Victims of Violence, Inc.  is a                                                               
local charity  in Valdez that  is looking to broaden  its revenue                                                               
base to other sources besides the State of Alaska.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:05:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER announced  he will  be holding  over HB  268 to                                                               
provide an opportunity for  further work regarding Representative                                                               
Hawker's concern.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  inquired if  any research has  been done                                                               
on whether incentivizing  a derby or classic will  result in more                                                               
hunters or  more moose being  taken in  an attempt to  make money                                                               
off the situation.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T. WILSON responded she  has not done any surveys.                                                               
She said her  understanding of hunters is that they  love to hunt                                                               
and right now all  of the permits are always taken  up.  This may                                                               
make it  more competitive  or more  people may  try to  hunt, she                                                               
allowed, but the number of permits will still remain the same.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI asked  how  this will  work for  federal                                                               
subsistence areas and areas where there is a tier.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE T.  WILSON understood that whatever  a person must                                                               
do now to be able to legally hunt  for a moose will still have to                                                               
be done under this  bill.  All HB 268 would do  is allow a hunter                                                               
to participate  in this under a  legal permit that has  been done                                                               
by the Alaska Department of Fish & Game.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:07:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said  he hears this bill as  being one that                                                               
requires people  to go  hunt.  In  classics, people  are guessing                                                               
what the size of the biggest bull  moose is this year and it is a                                                               
game of chance.   He inquired whether the  sponsor's intention is                                                               
to allow either  of these to go forward so  that people can guess                                                               
what is the biggest moose taken in a particular unit.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  T.  WILSON  understood  the  organizer  of  these                                                               
events would  have to  go through the  Department of  Revenue and                                                               
follow the department's  guidelines for how to set  up the event.                                                               
She said allowing  people to guess sizes would  provide even more                                                               
revenue to the organizer because then  it would not be limited to                                                               
just the hunters.  She deferred  to the Department of Revenue for                                                               
a further answer.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:09:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  asked whether there is  a technical distinction                                                               
between what is a classic and what is a derby.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ANNA KIM, Chief  of Revenue Options, Tax  Division, Department of                                                               
Revenue (DOR), replied she cannot  answer that question fully but                                                               
said  there are  actual definitions  for games  of chance  versus                                                               
games  of skill  when the  department  is reviewing  things.   In                                                               
further response,  she said  she will get  back to  the committee                                                               
regarding those definitions.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER inquired  whether a  derby is  taking a  chance                                                               
while a classic is what someone else does.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIM replied she thinks the co-chair's assumption is correct.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:10:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  offered his understanding that  a game of                                                               
skill does not  necessarily require permits to  the gaming aspect                                                               
as much as games  of chance.  He said he  has trouble calling the                                                               
hunting  of a  moose  a  game of  chance  because  much skill  is                                                               
involved in getting a  moose.  He said he does  not want to merge                                                               
the two.   If it is  drawing a permit to  have a chance to  get a                                                               
moose,  then he  could see  chance and  a qualifier  for being  a                                                               
gaming permit  situation.  He  therefore asked whether  this bill                                                               
is actually necessary.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIM  responded there is  some past  history that she  has not                                                               
been briefed  on as  far as this  particular activity  related to                                                               
skill or chance.  She said  her understanding is that for this to                                                               
move forward it would have to be chance.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON inquired whether  DOR's approval is needed                                                               
to split the pot with the  biggest moose because it is not chance                                                               
and therefore [this bill] is unnecessary.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIM  replied she does not  know the answer and  will get back                                                               
to the committee in this regard.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON  said the ice  classic is not an  issue as                                                               
he understands  that.  Guessing  the length  of the antlers  is a                                                               
different  issue, but  to just  to go  out and  take the  biggest                                                               
moose is, to him, a skill and not a chance.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:12:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  observed the  list of activities  allowed to                                                               
be  done for  fundraising is  growing.   She asked  how much  the                                                               
workload  will be  increased for  the  administrative support  of                                                               
these additional activities.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. KIM answered activities added in  the past have, so far, been                                                               
absorbed by the existing staff in DOR's gaming group.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:14:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER opened public testimony on HB 268.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
AL BARRETTE said  he supported HB 268 and  any time organizations                                                               
have  an  opportunity  to raise  money,  particularly  collegiate                                                               
organizations,  it  lessens  the  burden  on  the  state  budget.                                                               
Regarding  skilled  hunting versus  chance  hunting,  he said  it                                                               
takes skill to hunt an animal, but  it is by chance that a hunter                                                               
gets  the largest  moose  for  that derby.    He therefore  urged                                                               
committee members to support the bill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:16:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GEORGE PIERCE  said he  opposed HB  268 because it  is a  scam to                                                               
take  the  bull moose  because  moose  populations are  down  all                                                               
across  the state.   A  derby will  likely bring  nonresidents to                                                               
Alaska to kill  moose that residents cannot even  harvest in many                                                               
locations.  For  example, king salmon on the  Kenai Peninsula are                                                               
targeted  by one  special interest  group, and  now there  are no                                                               
more  big king  salmon.   Now there  is another  special interest                                                               
group that wants to take Alaska's  resources so it can make money                                                               
through a fundraiser.   These are his resources, he  said, and he                                                               
does  not  want  them  outsourced  and  sold  for  money  because                                                               
somebody wants to  make some money.  He urged  members to step up                                                               
for Alaskans and turn down HB 268.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:18:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAN JORDAN,  Head Rifle Coach,  University of  Alaska, Fairbanks,                                                               
noted he took over the rifle  program about nine years ago.  Over                                                               
the years, ways  have been looked at  to cut costs as  well as to                                                               
increase  revenue to  take the  burden off  the university.   One                                                               
idea was to bring forth this  big bull derby after looking at the                                                               
success  of   the  halibut  derbies,  salmon   derbies,  and  ice                                                               
classics.   It  would formalize  what has  already been  going on                                                               
informally in  Fairbanks, he said.   It  was decided to  bring in                                                               
the Tanana Valley Sportsmen's Association  because it is involved                                                               
with  youth  as well  as  animal  management.   The  hunters  are                                                               
already out  there, he said, and  he does not believe  this derby                                                               
will increase the  number of hunters.  It would  provide a chance                                                               
to  bring in  the people  who  are already  harvesting moose  and                                                               
provide them  with recognition while providing  the organizations                                                               
a chance  to make  some money that  would benefit  youth, college                                                               
shooters, and  the communities.   The more funds from  outside of                                                               
the university the more things that  can be done to support these                                                               
activities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TARR  inquired whether Mr. Jordan  would support a                                                               
policy that limits derby participation to Alaska residents only.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. JORDAN answered he would have to think about that.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:20:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
GRANT  LEWIS, President,  Tanana  Valley Sportsmen's  Association                                                               
(TVSA), related  the roots of  his organization began in  1911 in                                                               
Fairbanks and  it was  incorporated as  a club in  1937.   In the                                                               
last  20 years,  the focus  of TVSA  has been  on youth  firearms                                                               
education, with the group having  its own youth shooting club and                                                               
training  about 75  kids a  year  in safe  handling of  firearms.                                                               
Additionally, TVSA works with high  schools, junior high schools,                                                               
and  charter schools,  as well  as helping  with the  university.                                                               
Last year, the TVSA junior club  started a senior division and it                                                               
won the  national championship in  its class.  [The  derby] would                                                               
be conducted under  TVSA's existing gaming permit;  thus, TVSA is                                                               
obviously  in favor  of the  bill.   It would  allow TVSA  to get                                                               
operating  money that  it would  not have  to raise  elsewhere or                                                               
have to ask the state for.   The TVSA always likes to support the                                                               
national championship University of Alaska rifle team.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:22:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL TINKER stated he  is a life member of TVSA  and has had a                                                               
long  affiliation  with the  university's  rifle  team, which  is                                                               
working to  win its eleventh  national championship.   During the                                                               
25 years he was associated  with the Fairbanks Advisory Committee                                                               
and  the  Board of  Game,  the  research  he saw  indicated  that                                                               
hunters in  the field always  seek the biggest moose  or caribou,                                                               
although hunters  concerned with just filling  their freezer will                                                               
take  the very  first  one seen.   Thus,  this  is not  promoting                                                               
anything that  will cause  a big  shift in  hunting numbers.   It                                                               
would  be nice  if this  could subscribe  hunters to  begin moose                                                               
hunting, but  that is unlikely to  happen.  If, for  example, the                                                               
fee is $10 and 1,500 tickets  are sold and a substantial prize is                                                               
given away, TVSA could still  give the university's program about                                                               
$7,000-$10,000, which would be significant  in terms of equipment                                                               
and support  for the  team.   He said  TVSA thinks  this proposal                                                               
will work and grow and that is  why it is asking the committee to                                                               
consider this proposal.  His  organization wants to get people to                                                               
buy  a   ticket  and  anticipates   weekly  winners   by  drawing                                                               
throughout the approximately four-week  long season.  An absolute                                                               
scoring mechanism  has not yet  been decided upon, but  TVSA will                                                               
be  trying to  accommodate those  who, by  state regulation,  are                                                               
required to underscore the antlers.   The TVSA will have a couple                                                               
of  check stations  in  Fairbanks  to which  the  antlers can  be                                                               
brought for scoring eligibility in the contest.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:26:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROWENA  PALOMAR, Executive  Director,  Advocates  for Victims  of                                                               
Violence,  Inc.  (AVV),  explained  that AVV  is  one  of  twenty                                                               
programs that  provide services to  victims of  domestic violence                                                               
and sexual  assault.   For fiscal year  2013 through  2014, AVV's                                                               
basic  operating  costs have  risen  over  $20,000 for  increased                                                               
transportation  for   victims  in  villages,  and   for  shelter,                                                               
utility,  energy, and  insurance  costs.   At  the current  state                                                               
funding level, AVV  would need an additional  $25,000 to continue                                                               
to  meet  victims'  basic  needs.    Unfortunately,  the  current                                                               
proposed increment  in state  funding of  about $285,000  will be                                                               
divided by  20 programs in the  state, and AVV will  need to make                                                               
up  the difference  or  be  forced to  cut  services.   By  being                                                               
eligible to receive  funding from the Snow Town  Ice Classic, AVV                                                               
can use  this money  as emergency funding  to meet  the projected                                                               
shortfall  rather  than making  the  difficult  decision of  what                                                               
services to cut and not turning victims away.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FEIGE lauded  Ms. Palomar for doing an  excellent job in                                                               
representing AVV.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:28:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DARRYL  VERFAILLIE,  Director,  Parks, Recreation,  and  Cultural                                                               
Services, City of Valdez Parks  and Recreation, said he supported                                                               
HB 268  and is speaking  in partnership  with AVV to  promote the                                                               
addition of the ice classic in  Valdez.  The city was looking for                                                               
an  event that  would provide  both residents  and visitors  with                                                               
additional winter entertainment  in an area where  winter goes on                                                               
and on and on.  It is hoped  that the event will help promote the                                                               
city's  annual week-long  Frosty Fever  Winter Celebration,  help                                                               
promote winter tourism, and  help strengthen partnerships between                                                               
the City  of Valdez and  Advocates for  Victims of Violence.   He                                                               
emphasized the City of Valdez  would receive no revenues from the                                                               
event.  The  city would simply coordinate the  event, assist with                                                               
event advertising, and  provide monitoring of the  site on behalf                                                               
of AVV,  thereby maximizing  nonprofit revenues  while bolstering                                                               
Parks and Recreation's winter offerings.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:29:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHNSON, addressing  the  Department of  Revenue,                                                               
queried whether [the moose derby] would be a game of chance.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE KOSS, Tax Auditor, Gaming  Group, Tax Division, Department of                                                               
Revenue (DOR), confirmed  it does, adding that the  full title of                                                               
the statute, AS 05.15, is Games  of Chance and Contests of Skill.                                                               
While hunting is an exercise in  skill, there is still an element                                                               
of  chance because  an animal  might not  be seen  or [the  shot]                                                               
might miss.   The  proposed activity  definitely comes  under the                                                               
department's purview and under the statute, he said.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAWKER   recalled  a  debate  in   which  it  was                                                               
maintained that  poker is such a  game of skill that  it ought to                                                               
be exempt from  these statutes.  This is absurd,  he said, but it                                                               
illustrates the point  that Mr. Koss is bringing up  in regard to                                                               
the  relationship  between games  of  skill  and chance  and  the                                                               
intent of this sort of activity.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:31:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER requested a definition of derby versus classic.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KOSS replied  that classics  tend  to be  based on  guessing                                                               
games, such  as guessing  when the  ice will go  out or  how many                                                               
fish pass  a certain point.   Derbies  are based on  catching the                                                               
largest  fish, and  in  this  instance it  would  be the  largest                                                               
antlers,  so derby  definitely fits  the proposed  activity.   In                                                               
further  response,  he confirmed  there  is  no real  distinction                                                               
between the two terms as far as distinct definitions.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:32:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  corrected his earlier  question, observing                                                               
that  page 4,  lines  11-12, define  a big  bull  moose derby  as                                                               
harvesting  a bull  moose  based on  the size  or  spread of  the                                                               
antlers.    Thus,  he  said,  it  eliminates  classic,  which  is                                                               
guessing which  ones would be  available.  He  questioned whether                                                               
more will be gained by a  few hunters than by people guessing the                                                               
size of the  largest bull caught this year, but  said that is the                                                               
choice being made in this bill.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:33:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  drew attention to  page 2, line 29,  Version N,                                                               
which  states  that  DOR  may  issue  a  permit  to  a  qualified                                                               
organization.  He  asked what criteria an  organization must meet                                                               
and what the permit stipulations are.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KOSS   answered  that  the  statute   defines  a  qualifying                                                               
organization  as one  that is  not for  profit, has  at least  25                                                               
Alaska residents as members, and is at least three years old.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:34:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SADDLER  kept  public  testimony  open  and  held  over                                                               
HB 268.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
        HB 244-ADVISORY COMMISSION ON FEDERAL MGT AREAS                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:34:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  announced that the  final order of  business is                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 244,  "An Act extending  the termination  date of                                                               
the Citizens' Advisory Commission  on Federal Management Areas in                                                               
Alaska; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:35:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WES  KELLER, Alaska State  Legislature, introduced                                                               
HB 244, stating it would extend  the sunset date of the Citizens'                                                               
Advisory  Commission on  Federal Management  Areas (CACFA)  [from                                                               
June 30, 2014] to 2021.   The Alaska Constitution talks about the                                                               
legislature providing for the  use, conservation, and development                                                               
of the  state's natural resources  to the maximum benefit  of the                                                               
people.   This implies  some rights that  Alaskans have,  such as                                                               
those  defined by  the statehood  compact and  federal laws  like                                                               
Alaska Native  Claims Settlement Act (ANCSA)  and Alaska National                                                               
Interest Lands  Conservation Act  (ANILCA), as  well as  case law                                                               
that  regularly happens  and regulations  that are  ongoing.   He                                                               
said CACFA exists to help  Alaskans maintain the rights they have                                                               
been given.   He drew attention to CACFA's 2013  Annual Report in                                                               
the committee  packet, noting  the topics  that CACFA  deals with                                                               
are  listed  on  page  1, [second]  paragraph,  and  the  federal                                                               
agencies  CACFA  deals with  are  also  listed  on  page 1.    He                                                               
reported that  CACFA held a  summit on August 12-13,  2013, which                                                               
was attended by a couple  hundred people, including the governor,                                                               
U.S.  Senator  Lisa  Murkowski, U.S.  Senator  Mark  Begich,  and                                                               
Congressman  Don  Young.   The  summit's  purpose was  to  gather                                                               
people  to document  the  areas  in which  they  saw the  federal                                                               
government  overreaching  and  stepping   on  the  authority  and                                                               
management  responsibilities  of the  state.    The response  was                                                               
overwhelming  and  each  presenter  was also  asked  to  offer  a                                                               
proposal, which resulted  in the document included at  the end of                                                               
the  annual report  that gives  all  the recommendations  brought                                                               
forward at  the summit.  This  list is not yet  done, he advised,                                                               
and a presentation will later be made to the legislature.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:39:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER  said  he   believes  CACFA  is  a  strong                                                               
commission because  of its high  quality executive  director, Mr.                                                               
Stan Leaphart.   Displaying a copy of the  Federal Register which                                                               
lists  every   regulation  that   comes  out  from   the  federal                                                               
government,  he  said  Mr. Leaphart  sorts  through  the  federal                                                               
regulations that come out every  year and brings those of concern                                                               
to  CACFA's attention.    However,  not all  of  the changes,  or                                                               
abuses,  as  he  calls  them,  are  brought  up  in  the  federal                                                               
register.   For  example, every  year the  National Park  Service                                                               
comes up with a compendium, and  it was found that the compendium                                                               
was overriding the  state's fish and game  management policies by                                                               
closing  areas that  the Alaska  Department  of Fish  & Game  had                                                               
chosen not to close.  While  that might have been the right thing                                                               
to do, the  point is that it was being  done unilaterally without                                                               
being published in  the Federal Register and this is  the sort of                                                               
thing  that Mr.  Leaphart catches,  he said.   Additionally,  Mr.                                                               
Leaphart maintains  a dialog with  the National Park  Service, as                                                               
well as the Department of Natural  Resources.  In addition to Mr.                                                               
Leaphart  being  top  of  the  line,  his  staff  person,  Karrie                                                               
Improte, is also very capable,  he opined.  Representative Keller                                                               
said CACFA's  commissioners are another reason  for its strength:                                                               
Rod  Arno,  Senator  John  Coghill,  Mark  Fish,  Teresa  Hanson,                                                               
Charlie  Lean, Mike  Meekin, Kathleen  Liska,  Warren Olson,  Ron                                                               
Somerville, Susan Smith, and Frank Woods.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:46:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   HAWKER   thanked   Representative   Keller   for                                                               
introducing  the   bill,  saying  the  report   is  something  he                                                               
appreciates and  that CACFA's work  stands on  its own as  far as                                                               
why the bill should be  supported.  He inquired, however, whether                                                               
there  are   any  problems  with   the  way  the   commission  is                                                               
functioning or  whether there  are any  reasons why  CACFA should                                                               
not be reauthorized.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  responded that he serves  as CACFA's chair                                                               
and, while  its commissioners  may spar, there  is such  a common                                                               
thread of purpose that CACFA is  a very healthy organization.  If                                                               
anything,  CACFA  needs  to be  expanded  because  the  executive                                                               
director  is very  overworked.   While that  is not  part of  the                                                               
proposal, he urged the committee to consider that.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:48:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER,  responding to  Representative  Kawasaki,                                                               
said there  is fiscal note.   The cost to  date, if there  was an                                                               
audit, would  be for  travel and lodging  for three  meetings per                                                               
year.  He  said CACFA is still in the  process of wisely spending                                                               
the governor's special funding from after the summit.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked why CACFA was disbanded in 1999.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER deferred  to  executive director  Leaphart                                                               
for an answer since he was involved before the disbanding.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI  inquired  whether  the  legislature  or                                                               
governor  has utilized  any of  the recommendations  in the  2013                                                               
Annual Report.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  replied "most definitely, it  is ongoing."                                                               
For  example,  one  role  CACFA plays  is  interacting  with  the                                                               
different  agencies, such  as the  Department of  Law.   This was                                                               
happening before the recommendation came  out, such as working on                                                               
the state transportation plan.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER brought attention to page 21 of the report.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:51:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER opened public testimony on HB 244.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
RON SOMMERVILLE,  Board Member, Citizens' Advisory  Commission on                                                               
Federal Areas, advised  that relative to the  overreach issues, a                                                               
detailed  report  with   more  comprehensive  recommendations  is                                                               
forthcoming to the legislature.   He maintained that when looking                                                               
at  the state's  entitlement, the  state is  losing.   He related                                                               
that at the  summit he asked how many people  feel that the state                                                               
has a severe overreach problem,  and every person but one agreed.                                                               
Not knowing how to address this  issue is the problem, he opined.                                                               
Drawing attention to  the Alaska map on the  committee room wall,                                                               
Mr. Sommerville  pointed out  that much of  it is  colored green,                                                               
which represents federal ownership.   Private Alaska citizens are                                                               
being  overwhelmed  with  planning   by  federal  agencies.    An                                                               
organization he  belongs to in  Juneau used to comment  on issues                                                               
relative to  other parts of  the state because they  affected the                                                               
organization,   but  now   that  cannot   be  done   because  the                                                               
organization  cannot  even keep  up  with  the [Tongass  National                                                               
Forest]  land use  planning systems  in Southeast  Alaska.   This                                                               
problem  relates  to  CACFA because  CACFA  represents,  in  many                                                               
cases, an individual  person who comes to it with  a problem that                                                               
the  agencies  do  not  have  the wherewithal  to  address.    He                                                               
supported the continuing of CACFA.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:54:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STAN LEAPHART, Executive  Director, Citizens' Advisory Commission                                                               
on Federal Areas  (CACFA), recalled that in  2012, CACFA reviewed                                                               
approximately 15,000  pages of management plans  from 4 different                                                               
federal agencies.  Next year CACFA  is going to be looking at new                                                               
management  plans for  the Tongass  National Forest,  the Chugach                                                               
National  Forest, the  Central Yukon  Planning  Area, the  Bering                                                               
Sea-Western  Interior  Resource  Management  Plan,  plus  revised                                                               
management  plans  for Gates  of  the  Arctic National  Park  and                                                               
Preserve  and  Lake  Clark  National Park  and  Preserve.    When                                                               
reviewing a  management plan, CACFA  looks at how  the guarantees                                                               
and  promises   made  in  the  Alaska   National  Interest  Lands                                                               
Conservation Act (ANILCA) are being  complied with.  As time goes                                                               
by  since the  passing of  ANILCA, the  institutional memory  and                                                               
knowledge of the  federal agencies is disappearing.   Thus, CACFA                                                               
is  constantly reminding  agencies that  Alaskans are  guaranteed                                                               
access into  these huge  management areas by  means that  are not                                                               
commonly used  in the  Lower 48.   Also  included in  ANILCA were                                                               
considerations  for cabin  use and  commercial  fishing in  these                                                               
areas,  and CACFA  must constantly  remind federal  agencies that                                                               
these  uses need  to  be  recognized and  provided  for in  their                                                               
management plans.   He  related that CACFA  talks to  public user                                                               
groups to find  out their concerns with respect  to management of                                                               
these areas.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:57:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI inquired  what the state is  doing as far                                                               
as the type of work that CACFA is doing.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEAPHART responded  the state's ANILCA program  looks at many                                                               
of  these  same management  plans  and  regulatory proposals  and                                                               
tends to  focus on  how a planning  effort or  regulation package                                                               
will affect  state management  prerogatives, while  CACFA reaches                                                               
out to  the public  and user  groups.  He  related that  Mr. John                                                               
Sturgeon has brought suit against  the National Park Service over                                                               
a set  of regulations  that allows the  National Park  Service to                                                               
regulate  activities on  any waters  within the  boundaries of  a                                                               
national  park.   The Citizens'  Advisory  Commission on  Federal                                                               
Areas spent several weeks researching  the legislative history of                                                               
ANILCA to  provide that background information  to the Department                                                               
of Law.  Thus, CACFA works  well with state agencies and brings a                                                               
little bit of different perspective into that process.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI asked why  CACFA was disbanded during the                                                               
time period of 1999-2007.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LEAPHART responded  he was  hired  in 1982  by the  original                                                               
commission  created in  1981 by  Senator Bettye  Fahrenkamp.   He                                                               
worked as  CACFA's director  until it was  defunded in  June 1999                                                               
due to  a state budget crisis.   Like now, CACFA  was attached to                                                               
the Department  of Natural  Resources (DNR) and  it was  DNR that                                                               
made the choice  to eliminate CACFA due to  its declining budget,                                                               
although CACFA's authorization continued until 2001.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:00:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
AL  BARRETTE offered  his support  for CACFA,  noting he  is vice                                                               
chair of  the Fairbanks Advisory Committee  and also participates                                                               
in the federal  subsistence boards.  He said CACFA  has been very                                                               
important in giving information to  his organizations so they can                                                               
make informed  comments and  decisions to the  Board of  Game and                                                               
the federal subsistence  arena.  One federal  document weighed 12                                                               
pounds, he said, and citizens were  expected to read that to make                                                               
comments  on it.   He  urged members  to support  HB 244,  saying                                                               
CACFA  board  members  are  very well  informed  prior  to  their                                                               
meetings and CACFA is a useful resource.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
3:01:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  closed public  testimony after  ascertaining no                                                               
one else wished to testify.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
3:02:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE P. WILSON moved to  report HB 244 out of committee                                                               
with  individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  fiscal                                                               
notes.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON objected  for discussion purposes, pointing                                                               
out that passing HB 244 does  not mean the committee supports all                                                               
the recommendations included  in CACFA's 2013 Annual  Report.  He                                                               
then removed his objection.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHNSON said there is  not much more the committee                                                               
will be doing  that is more important than this.   He reported he                                                               
is the incoming  chair of the Council of  State Governments (CSG)                                                               
West.   The western  states are  terribly overburdened,  he said,                                                               
and  every state  in the  union  is looking  at doing  something,                                                               
except Delaware  which has no  federal land.   Many organizations                                                               
are tackling federal overreach.  Alaska  has the most to lose and                                                               
is the  most ahead.   He said  re-implementing CACFA  is critical                                                               
and he urges passage of HB 244.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLER clarified  the 2013  Annual Report  states                                                               
that it  is a comprehensive  report of the  recommendations which                                                               
came forward from CACFA and the  public.  It is not intended that                                                               
the committee is approving any or all of the recommendations.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SADDLER  stated he is  impressed with the work  of CACFA                                                               
and supports  its mission.   He said  there is an  unfair contest                                                               
between the state and the  federal government, and CACFA helps to                                                               
balance that contest.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
3:06:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further objection,  HB 244 was reported  from the                                                               
House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
3:06:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:06 p.m.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
CSHB 163(RES) ver R sectional.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
CSHB 163(RES) ver R Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
CSHB 163 Ver G Sectional analysis.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
CSHB 163 ver G Sponsor statement.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB 244 Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 244
HB 268 Sectional Analysis Big Bull Moose Derby.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Big Bull Moose Sponsor Statement.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Cummings.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support D Hillberry.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Dubowski.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Kappel.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support L Lewis.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Mayr.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support P Lewis.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support Tate.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support TVSA.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Letter of support UAF.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Nanooks news article 1.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Nanooks news article 2.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Nanooks picture 1.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Nanooks picture 2.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB 268 Picture TVSA club house.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB163 FNSB Nonattainment Boundary.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB163 Supporting Documentation-Autos and CO.PDF HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB163 Supporting Documentation-certfied wood stoves.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB163 Supporting Documentation-EPA Response.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB163 Supporting Documents-State Implementation Plan.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
HB 244 Version A.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 244
HB 268 Version A.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
CSHB 163 Ver G.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163
CACFA 2013 Annual Report.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 244
HB 268 Blank CS 28-LS0851N.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 268
HB163 DEC Draft Regulations.pdf HRES 2/3/2014 1:00:00 PM
HB 163