Legislature(2007 - 2008)BARNES 124

05/09/2007 01:00 PM RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HB 56 HYDROGEN ENERGY RESEARCH PROGRAM TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 56(RES) Out of Committee
+ SJR 6 OPPOSE WILDERNESS DESIGNATION FOR ANWR TELECONFERENCED
Moved HCS CSSJR 6(RES) Out of Committee
+ SB 111 KODIAK NARROW CAPE PUBLIC USE AREA TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                          May 9, 2007                                                                                           
                           1:09 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carl Gatto, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Craig Johnson, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
Representative Bob Roses                                                                                                        
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 56                                                                                                               
"An  Act  establishing the  Hydrogen  Energy  Partnership in  the                                                               
Department  of  Commerce,  Community, and  Economic  Development;                                                               
requiring the  commissioner of commerce, community,  and economic                                                               
development  to   seek  public   and  private  funding   for  the                                                               
partnership; providing for the contingent  repeal of an effective                                                               
date; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 56(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 111                                                                                                             
"An Act creating the Kodiak Narrow Cape Public Use Area."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSB 111(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6                                                                                                   
Urging the United States Congress  to defeat House Resolution 39,                                                               
titled  "To  preserve the  Arctic  coastal  plain of  the  Arctic                                                               
National Wildlife  Refuge, Alaska,  as wilderness  in recognition                                                               
of  its extraordinary  natural ecosystems  and for  the permanent                                                               
good of present and future generations of Americans."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCS CSSJR 6(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 56                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: HYDROGEN ENERGY RESEARCH PROGRAM                                                                                   
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD, DOLL                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
01/16/07       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/5/07                                                                                
01/16/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/16/07       (H)       CRA, RES, FIN                                                                                          
02/15/07       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
02/15/07       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/15/07       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
03/01/07       (H)       CRA AT 8:00 AM BARNES 124                                                                              
03/01/07       (H)       Moved CSHB 56(CRA) Out of Committee                                                                    
03/01/07       (H)       MINUTE(CRA)                                                                                            
03/07/07       (H)       CRA RPT CS(CRA) NT 4DP                                                                                 
03/07/07       (H)       DP: CISSNA, NEUMAN, LEDOUX, FAIRCLOUGH                                                                 
05/09/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 111                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: KODIAK NARROW CAPE PUBLIC USE AREA                                                                                 
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) STEVENS                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
03/12/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/12/07       (S)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
04/20/07       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/20/07       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/20/07       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/23/07       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/23/07       (S)       Moved CSSB 111(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
04/23/07       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
04/25/07       (S)       RES RPT CS  6DP 1NR   SAME TITLE                                                                       
04/25/07       (S)       DP:    HUGGINS,     STEDMAN,    STEVENS,                                                               
                         WIELECHOWSKI, MCGUIRE, WAGONER                                                                         
04/25/07       (S)       NR: GREEN                                                                                              
05/04/07       (S)       FIN RPT CS(RES)  6DP                                                                                   
05/04/07       (S)       DP: HOFFMAN, STEDMAN, ELTON, THOMAS,                                                                   
                         DYSON, OLSON                                                                                           
05/04/07       (S)       FIN AT 9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                      
05/04/07       (S)       Moved CSSB 111(RES) Out of Committee                                                                   
05/04/07       (S)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
05/07/07       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
05/07/07       (S)       VERSION: CSSB 111(RES)                                                                                 
05/08/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/08/07       (H)       RES                                                                                                    
05/09/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SJR 6                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: OPPOSE WILDERNESS DESIGNATION FOR ANWR                                                                             
SPONSOR(s): RESOURCES                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
04/25/07       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/25/07       (S)       RES                                                                                                    
04/30/07       (S)       RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
04/30/07       (S)       Moved CSSJR 6(RES) Out of Committee                                                                    
04/30/07       (S)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
05/02/07       (S)       RES RPT CS FORTHCOMING   5DP 1NR                                                                       
05/02/07       (S)       DP: HUGGINS, STEVENS, MCGUIRE, GREEN,                                                                  
                         WAGONER                                                                                                
05/02/07       (S)       NR: WIELECHOWSKI                                                                                       
05/03/07       (S)       RES CS RECEIVED   NEW TITLE                                                                            
05/07/07       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
05/07/07       (S)       VERSION: CSSJR 6(RES)                                                                                  
05/08/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
05/08/07       (H)       RES                                                                                                    
05/09/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HARRY CRAWFORD                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:    Presented  HB 56,  as  the  sponsor,  and                                                             
responded to questions and comments during discussion.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. SARA FISHER-GOAD, Deputy Director-Operations                                                                                
Alaska  Industrial Development  &  Export  Authority (AIDEA)  and                                                               
Alaska Energy Authority (AEA)                                                                                                   
Department  of   Commerce,  Community,  &   Economic  Development                                                               
(DCCED)                                                                                                                         
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   During  discussion of  HB 56,  responded to                                                             
questions and provided comments.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DAVID LOCKARD, Lead Engineer, Rural Energy Program                                                                              
Alaska  Industrial Development  &  Export  Authority (AIDEA)  and                                                               
Alaska Energy Authority (AEA)                                                                                                   
Department  of   Commerce,  Community,  &   Economic  Development                                                               
(DCEED)                                                                                                                         
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:   During  discussion of  HB 56,  responded to                                                             
questions and provided comments.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JIM STIMPFLE                                                                                                                    
Nome, Alaska                                                                                                                    
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided testimony on HB 56.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DOUG LETCH, Staff                                                                                                               
to Senator Gary Stevens                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Presented SB 111 on behalf  of the sponsor,                                                             
Senator Stevens,  and responded to questions  and comments during                                                               
discussion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CODY RICE, Staff                                                                                                                
to Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:    During  discussion  of  HB  177,  offered                                                             
comments and responded to questions.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  CARL   GATTO  called   the  House   Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  1:09:50  PM.    Representatives                                                             
Gatto, Johnson,  Kawasaki, Kohring,  Guttenberg, and  Edgmon were                                                               
present at the  call to order.  Representatives  Roses and Seaton                                                               
arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 56-HYDROGEN ENERGY RESEARCH PROGRAM                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:10:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO announced  that the first order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 56,  "An Act establishing the  Hydrogen Energy                                                               
Partnership  in  the  Department   of  Commerce,  Community,  and                                                               
Economic  Development; requiring  the  commissioner of  commerce,                                                               
community, and  economic development  to seek public  and private                                                               
funding for the partnership; providing  for the contingent repeal                                                               
of  an effective  date;  and providing  for  an effective  date."                                                               
[Before the committee was CSHB 56(CRA)]                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:10:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HARRY CRAWFORD,  Alaska State  Legislature, noted                                                               
that  HB 56  has been  passed from  the House  twice before.   He                                                               
explained that  the bill  sets up a  partnership with  the Alaska                                                               
Energy Authority (AEA) and the  University of Alaska for hydrogen                                                               
research  and  development  projects.     The  partnership  is  a                                                               
receptacle  for  federal  funds,  grants,  and  private  business                                                               
funding.   He  stated  that  hydrogen use  makes  other types  of                                                               
renewable energy more efficient.  It  can be stored in tanks, put                                                               
into pipelines, and moved around to places that need the energy.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:12:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO said that innovation  brings a leadership position                                                               
in industry, and  he expressed his amazement  at hydrogen fueling                                                               
stations for vehicles.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD agreed  that  Toyota, Honda,  and a  few                                                               
other car manufacturers are looking  to the future.  He expressed                                                               
his belief that  alternative renewable energy is the  wave of the                                                               
future, and that  hydrogen is a way to make  it much more useable                                                               
and efficient.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:13:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO asked if the AEA currently exists.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied yes.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO asked which department AEA is located in.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that AEA  is in the Department of                                                               
Commerce, Community, & Economic Development (DCCED).                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:13:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replayed the Toyota ad on the computer.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  noted that  no specific language  is used  in the                                                               
advertisement, so that it can be played anywhere.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD agreed that it  portrays what can be done                                                               
with hydrogen.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO asked if it is true.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD affirmed that it is.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:15:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG  commented that  BP  is  no longer  an                                                               
acronym for  "British Petroleum," that  it is now an  acronym for                                                               
"Beyond Petroleum."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD revealed  that  the initial  involvement                                                               
for  this bill  came through  a  professor at  the University  of                                                               
Alaska, Fairbanks  (UAF) who  is studying  the use  of geothermal                                                               
energy  produced on  an island  in western  Alaska.   He reported                                                               
that during the fishing season  the island needs 15 mega-watts of                                                               
energy,  but during  the  rest of  the year  they  only need  2-3                                                               
megawatts.  They propose to build  a powerhouse to use the excess                                                               
geothermal  energy  to  manufacture  hydrogen  by  splitting  the                                                               
seawater into oxygen and hydrogen  atoms, which will be saved and                                                               
shipped in  fuel cells to villages.   He explained that  there is                                                               
unlimited  potential  for wind,  water,  and  geothermal here  in                                                               
Alaska, but  there is no  way to utilize  it because there  is no                                                               
market at  those sites.   There needs  to be a  way to  store and                                                               
transport the energy.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:17:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO expressed  a concern  with containment  as it  is                                                               
difficult to keep hydrogen molecules from escaping.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  reported that  zeolite, a  mineral found                                                               
in abundance in Alaska, allows the hydrogen to stabilize.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:18:55 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO asked about acetylene.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD explained  that  acetylene is  extremely                                                               
volatile when  not mixed, but  adding the carbon  honeycomb makes                                                               
it a very stable gas.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:19:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO observed that the carbon makes it safe.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  agreed,  and stated  that  the  zeolite                                                               
works in the same principle.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO posed  that zeolite  stabilizes  the hydrogen  to                                                               
prevent leakage.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that he did not know.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  reported that Bill Leighty,  who usually                                                               
performs a demonstration, is not available today.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:20:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.   SARA   FISHER-GOAD,  Deputy   Director-Operations,   Alaska                                                               
Industrial  Development &  Export  Authority  (AIDEA) and  Alaska                                                               
Energy  Authority (AEA),  Department  of  Commerce, Community,  &                                                               
Economic  Development (DCCED),  clarified  that AEA  is a  public                                                               
corporation organized  under DCCED, though with  a separate legal                                                               
existence.    Although AEA  and  AIDEA  have  the same  Board  of                                                               
Directors,   they  are   separate   corporations  with   separate                                                               
projects.  She  explained that HB 56 directs AEA  to seek funding                                                               
from  federal   and  private  sources   to  cover  the   cost  of                                                               
establishing  and operating  a hydrogen  energy partnership.   If                                                               
sufficient funding is obtained, the  rest of the bill will become                                                               
effective and the  Board of Directors will  establish the members                                                               
of the partnership.  She  noted that the committee substitute has                                                               
one minor technical  correction to reflect the  primary change of                                                               
making this  an AEA program.   She referred to Section  3 of CSHB                                                               
56(CRA)  and suggested  that  this section  be  eliminated.   She                                                               
offered her  belief that the  fiscal note addresses  any staffing                                                               
necessary to carry this forward.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:22:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO, referring to Section  3, asked if Ms. Fisher-Goad                                                               
is addressing the staff support position.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. FISHER-GOAD  explained that  in the  original version  of the                                                               
bill, the partnership  is established under DCCED,  and the staff                                                               
support mentioned in Section 3, is  under DCCED.  She offered her                                                               
belief that the bill will be clearer if this section is removed.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:24:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO posed that Section  3 provides staff support under                                                               
the hydrogen  energy partnership, which is  established with this                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FISHER-GOAD explained  that Section  3 refers  to the  staff                                                               
duties of the DCCED, as listed in AS 44.33.020(a).                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:25:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  asked if  the sponsor has  any questions  for Ms.                                                               
Fisher-Goad.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that he trusts her decision.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:25:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  asked if there  is any unintended  consequence by                                                               
deleting Section 3.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  FISHER-GOAD expressed  her  belief that  Section  3 adds  an                                                               
unnecessary duty to  the DCEED.  She explained  that removing the                                                               
section  clarifies that  this is  an AEA  program and  that DCEED                                                               
does not have any responsibilities to support the partnership.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:26:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG expressed  concern  that  this may  be                                                               
taking away the fact that there are designated staff.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. FISHER-GOAD pointed  out that the fiscal  note addresses that                                                               
staffing will  be provided.   She offered  her belief that  it is                                                               
clear  that  this is  an  AEA  responsibility to  establish  this                                                               
partnership.    She  explained  that  the  conditional  effective                                                               
requirements in the  bill state that the  executive director seek                                                               
to  establish additional  funding  sources  for the  partnership.                                                               
She allowed that the partnership  will move forward when there is                                                               
sufficient funding, and  that the fiscal note  addresses the need                                                               
for staff  support.  She  noted that  although AEA is  a separate                                                               
corporation, there  is an  AIDEA fiscal  note that  addresses the                                                               
staff  requirements.   She  explained that  the  funding will  be                                                               
through  AEA, but  the  staff expense  will  be provided  through                                                               
AIDEA.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:28:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  confirmed that  there are  two fiscal  notes, one                                                               
from AIDEA and one from AEA.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.   FISHER-GOAD  furnished   that  the   fiscal  notes   are  a                                                               
duplication of  the funding sources,  as AEA would  provide AIDEA                                                               
the funding to pay for the staff support.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  referred  to   page  3,  line  25,  and                                                               
clarified that the  funding is not through the  general fund, but                                                               
will be  sought from federal  and private sources.   He explained                                                               
that if there  is not any money from federal  and private grants,                                                               
there will not be a hydrogen energy partnership.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO discussed the bill with Co-Chair Johnson.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:31:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DAVID  LOCKARD,  Lead  Engineer,  Rural  Energy  Program,  Alaska                                                               
Industrial  Development &  Export  Authority  (AIDEA) and  Alaska                                                               
Energy  Authority (AEA),  Department  of  Commerce, Community,  &                                                               
Economic  Development (DCEED),  reported  that  last year  Alaska                                                               
became the fifth state in the  country to have a geothermal power                                                               
generation project  come to fruition,  at Chena Hot Springs.   He                                                               
relayed that  there was  also a  geothermal energy  conference at                                                               
Chena,   reflecting   the   statewide  interest   in   developing                                                               
geothermal  resources  for  power   generation  and  direct  use,                                                               
including heating, green houses, and mariculture.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO asked  if  Mount  Spurr is  also  included as  an                                                               
energy resource.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOCKARD replied  that there  is  a lease  application for  a                                                               
geothermal  project at  Mount Spurr  currently being  reviewed by                                                               
the Department of Natural Resources (DNR).                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:32:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM STIMPFLE  announced that he  is glad  to hear that  Alaska is                                                               
thinking about  hydrogen energy.   He noted that rural  Alaska is                                                               
aware  that the  price  of oil  and natural  gas  will always  be                                                               
increasing and energy will become unaffordable.  He stated:                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The  quicker and  the  faster that  we  can move  rural                                                                    
     Alaska, if  not the  entire state, to  renewable energy                                                                    
     resources in  the state, whether  that be  wind, solar,                                                                    
     geothermal,  or hydro,  along with  the development  of                                                                    
     hydrogen  energy as  a  transportation  fuel for  rural                                                                    
     Alaska,  the  better  and smarter  we  will  become  in                                                                    
     getting away  from peak oil  depletion and  natural gas                                                                    
     depletion with ever increasing prices.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STIMPFLE  conveyed that  Nome  hosted  an energy  conference                                                               
during  the prior  year.   There had  been a  presentation by  an                                                               
Idaho engineer  who had helped  start the first wind  to hydrogen                                                               
production  plant  in Idaho  for  industry.   He  mentioned  that                                                               
General Motors  is shipping  the first  electric-hydrogen vehicle                                                               
to China, called  the Volt, and it can be  run on either hydrogen                                                               
or  electricity.   He  noted  that Iceland  has  made  a 50  year                                                               
commitment to  bring the country  to hydrogen production  for use                                                               
in  transportation and  fishing.   He  commented  that a  serious                                                               
effort to move Alaska to hydrogen  will require AEA funding of at                                                               
least $200 million.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO closed public testimony.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:36:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOHRING encouraged  as  much  private funding  as                                                               
possible  and stated  that he  will vote  to move  the bill.   He                                                               
asked  if  there  is  an  inventory  of  realistic  sites  for  a                                                               
geothermal plant.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  responded that  the engineer  working at                                                               
Chena  Hot  Springs reported  on  work  to tie  their  geothermal                                                               
energy generator  to hydrogen for  storage of the  excess energy.                                                               
He allowed that the potential  energy is thousands of mega-watts,                                                               
with no means  of transport.  Representative  Crawford noted that                                                               
Mr. Leighty is on the leading  edge of the technology to transfer                                                               
energy to  ammonia for storage.   He reminded the  committee that                                                               
there  is a  press release  from  Senator Lisa  Murkowski in  the                                                               
members' packets, which he read in part:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     In an  effort to increase funding  for renewable energy                                                                    
     power  projects,  Senator   Lisa  Murkowski  today  won                                                                    
     Senate Energy and  Natural Resources Committee approval                                                                    
     for  an amendment  to comprehensive  energy legislation                                                                    
     that  will provide  federal  grants  to help  utilities                                                                    
     build renewable energy projects.   The amendment, which                                                                    
     Murkowski  drafted  with  Alaska Senator  Ted  Stevens,                                                                    
     creates a  Renewable Energy Construction  Grant program                                                                    
     that will  provide up to 50-50  federal matching grants                                                                    
     for  the construction  of  wind,  geothermal and  ocean                                                                    
     energy  projects  nationwide  and  small  hydroelectric                                                                    
     projects exclusively in Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD added  that  the  federal grant  program                                                               
will   provide  up   to  $800   million   for  renewable   energy                                                               
construction,  possibly  including  the Fire  Island  wind  farm,                                                               
Chena  Hot  Springs  geothermal project,  and  other  geothermal,                                                               
biomass, ocean  energy, and small  hydro projects statewide.   He                                                               
allowed that this  will get us started on the  road to the Alaska                                                               
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:41:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON observed  that on page 3, line  1, (5), the                                                               
"tribal  organizations"  are  federally recognized  but  are  not                                                               
necessarily "of the state."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that  the intent is for residence                                                               
in the state.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON asked  to verify that page 2,  line 31, (4)                                                               
"an Alaska regional development organization" is an ARDOR.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:43:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI offered  his  support of  the bill,  and                                                               
referring  to page  2,  line  17, asked  for  assurance that  the                                                               
University of Alaska is willing to support this.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD replied  that the  University of  Alaska                                                               
has already said they want to be a part of this.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:44:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON offered  his support to amend the  bill to allow                                                               
$100,000 from  the general funds  to finance the  project, should                                                               
the federal grants not materialize.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  offered his belief that  the committee                                                               
is allowed to amend a fiscal note.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON  posed that only  the source of the  money would                                                               
need to be amended.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:45:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  allowed  that all  the  prior  versions                                                               
which contained general fund use have not been passed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON  said that  is why  he will not  offer it  as an                                                               
amendment, but  he does want  it on  the record that  he supports                                                               
this being a general fund item.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:46:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  moved that  the committee  adopt Amendment                                                               
1, as follows:                                                                                                                  
     Page 2, lines 19-21                                                                                                        
          Delete all material                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:47:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON  encouraged the committee to  review the wording                                                               
"tribal  organizations of  the state."   He  offered his  concern                                                               
that  recognizing  a tribe  might  lead  to the  legalization  of                                                               
gaming.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  offered  his  support to  a  change  in                                                               
wording.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES moved that  the committee adopt Amendment 2,                                                               
as follows:                                                                                                                     
     Page 3, line 1,                                                                                                            
          Delete "of the state"                                                                                                 
          Insert "in the state"                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON objected.   He  expressed his  belief that  the                                                               
word  "tribal"  needs  to  be  reviewed, so  that  there  are  no                                                               
unintended consequences.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:49:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  offered to  delete "tribal"  and replace  it with                                                               
"various."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON  noted that  it  is  important to  include  the                                                               
indigenous peoples.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD guaranteed that this will be fixed.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON removed his objection.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:49:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if the  sponsor will support changing                                                               
"tribal" to "Alaska Native."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  moved that  the committee  adopt Amendment                                                               
3, as follows:                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 1,                                                                                                            
          Delete "tribal"                                                                                                       
          Insert "Alaska Native"                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:50:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   EDGMON   posed    that   defining   geographical                                                               
representation for  each of  the nine  members listed  in Section                                                               
4(b) will better serve all of Alaska.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON   suggested  that  making  this   a  conceptual                                                               
amendment will allow the Division  of Legal and Research Services                                                               
to wordsmith.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  agreed that  it  is  "fine with  having                                                               
people from all over the  state represented," but he doesn't want                                                               
to make the bill restrictive.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO suggested  that making  this change  in the  next                                                               
committee of referral will allow time to adjust the wording.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:52:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  referred to page  3, lines 6-8,  asking if                                                               
this  is the  same  authorized  per diem  as  regular boards  and                                                               
commissions members  receive, or is  it similar to  the permanent                                                               
fund members per diem, which is substantially more.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD replied that he did not remember.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SEATON   expressed   his   belief   that   these                                                               
partnership members  are similar to regular  board and commission                                                               
members.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:54:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO explained that the  limited financial resources of                                                               
this bill necessitate a more reasonable per diem.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON offered that the  per diem can be addressed                                                               
in House Finance Committee.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON moved  to report CSHB 56(CRA) as  amended out of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal  notes.    There  being no  objection,  CSHB  56(RES)  was                                                               
reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SB 111-KODIAK NARROW CAPE PUBLIC USE AREA                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:55:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be CS FOR  SENATE BILL NO. 111(RES), "An Act  creating the Kodiak                                                               
Narrow Cape Public Use Area."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:55:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DOUG  LETCH,   Staff  to  Senator  Gary   Stevens,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, said SB 111 is exactly  the same as HB 203 which was                                                               
passed earlier  by the  House Resources  Standing Committee.   He                                                               
stated  that  the  Senate  passed SB  111  unanimously  and  that                                                               
nothing is changed since the committee last saw the bill.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  moved  to  report CSSB  111(RES)  out  of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal notes.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO objected, and subsequently removed his objection.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There  being no  further  objection, CSSB  111(RES) was  reported                                                               
from the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SJR  6-OPPOSE WILDERNESS DESIGNATION FOR ANWR                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:58:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  announced that the  next order of  business would                                                               
be CS FOR  SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6(RES),  Urging the United                                                               
States  Congress  to defeat  H.R.  39,  titled "To  preserve  the                                                               
Arctic  coastal plain  of the  Arctic  National Wildlife  Refuge,                                                               
Alaska,  as  wilderness  in   recognition  of  its  extraordinary                                                               
natural  ecosystems and  for the  permanent good  of present  and                                                               
future generations of Americans."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:59:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI moved to adopt Amendment 1, as follows:                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 12:                                                                                                           
          Add "strive to" after "the state will"                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES moved to report  CSSJR 6(RES) as amended out                                                               
of   committee   with    individual   recommendations   and   the                                                               
accompanying fiscal notes.   There being no  objection, HCS CSSJR                                                               
6(RES) was reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 177-NATURAL GAS PIPELINE (AGIA)                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:01:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  said that there  is a question regarding  HB 177,                                                               
the  Alaska Gasline  Inducement  Act (AGIA),  since  it left  the                                                               
House  Resources Standing  Committee.   He  relayed  that the  CS                                                               
currently  in  the  House  Finance   Committee  is  missing  some                                                               
amendments  that  were included  when  the  bill left  the  House                                                               
Resources Standing  Committee.   He said that  he spoke  with Co-                                                               
Chair Chenault of  the House Finance Committee and  it was agreed                                                               
that  Representatives Roses  and  Seaton, who  advocated for  the                                                               
amendments   during  testimony   in   House  Resources   Standing                                                               
Committee,  will be  invited to  testify  in front  of the  House                                                               
Finance  Committee.    He  recalled   that  the  House  Resources                                                               
Standing Committee had reviewed "a  stack of amendments that were                                                               
badly written,"  and then passed  the amendments to  Don Bullock,                                                               
Division  of   Legislative  Legal  and  Research   Services,  who                                                               
incorporated all the amendments into a new CS.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO  continued,  stating  that  the  House  Resources                                                               
Standing  Committee  reviewed the  CS  and  removed some  of  the                                                               
amendments.   He allowed that  all of the committee  action, with                                                               
one exception, was passed with a  majority of those present.  The                                                               
one exception  was a 4-4 vote,  which would not have  allowed the                                                               
amendment to be put into the  bill, and conversely, did not allow                                                               
the  amendment to  be  removed from  the bill.    He offered  his                                                               
belief  that  the  administration   has  now  changed  the  House                                                               
Resources Standing Committee version of  HB 177, so that this new                                                               
version will need to be reviewed.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:04:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES commented  that an analysis of  the new bill                                                               
indicates  that  most of  the  committee  work  is ignored.    He                                                               
expressed  his  belief  that   the  administration,  in  essence,                                                               
bypassed the  House Resources Standing  Committee.   He expressed                                                               
his  strong  concern   with  this  process,  as  a   lot  of  the                                                               
committee's work is  not included in the CS.   He emphasized that                                                               
all of  the work is important  but that almost all  of their work                                                               
is ignored, and that this is unacceptable.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  stated that this is  always a concern.                                                               
He allowed that  each committee has the right to  amend, and then                                                               
the  next  committee  has  the  right to  adopt  the  version  it                                                               
chooses.   He posed that  it would  have been beneficial  for the                                                               
administration to recognize the work of the committees.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:06:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO noted that the  House Resources Standing Committee                                                               
reviewed  the House  Special  Committee on  Oil  and Gas  version                                                               
"with  every intent  to do  it right."   He  emphasized that  the                                                               
committee was right to incorporate the amendments into a CS.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CODY  RICE,  Staff to  Representative  Carl  Gatto, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, offered  his belief that  a work draft has  not been                                                               
publicly adopted by the House  Finance Committee.  He stated that                                                               
there   are   multiple   versions  of   potential   work   drafts                                                               
circulating, one  of which is  the version the co-chair  of House                                                               
Finance Committee intends to adopt.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:08:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  said he  has seen  three versions,  including one                                                               
that  was "red  letter,"  but  these did  not  include the  "blue                                                               
letter"  version  that  was  moved out  of  the  House  Resources                                                               
Standing Committee.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICE  reported that  there are  several versions  prepared by                                                               
several  different   groups,  including  at  least   one  version                                                               
prepared by  the administration.   He relayed  that conversations                                                               
with  people involved  in this  process indicate  that the  House                                                               
Finance Committee  work draft contains substantive  policy issues                                                               
that will  be removed.   He  stated that  Representative Chenault                                                               
has committed  to allow members  of the House  Resources Standing                                                               
Committee to address the substantive issues that were withdrawn.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:10:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  said  that he  and  Representative  Roses                                                               
probably have  the same  version as  the Senate  CS.   He offered                                                               
that talks  with the administration  indicate that there  are two                                                               
separate  work drafts.   He  offered his  belief that  the Senate                                                               
Finance Committee  version is not  the same as the  copy proposed                                                               
to the  House Finance  Committee.  He  expressed his  belief that                                                               
the House  draft includes the House  Resources Standing Committee                                                               
deleted  amendments,  and that  there  will  be an  amendment  to                                                               
reinsert them.  He allowed  that both versions will highlight the                                                               
versions that  each finance  committee prefers.   He  opined that                                                               
the House  Resources Standing  Committee work  will be  shown and                                                               
referenced in the work draft.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO posed  that the  amendments are  included in  the                                                               
print, so  that they can be  addressed to possibly add  back into                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:12:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  offered his belief that  the House Finance                                                               
Committee version will show the edits, additions, and deletions.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICE said that this is his understanding as well.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES commented that this  "makes it a little more                                                               
palatable."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:13:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said that he has  received permission from                                                               
Speaker Harris  to invite the House  Resources Standing Committee                                                               
to join  the House  Special Committee on  Fisheries on  a special                                                               
fall  field hearing  to address  HB 134,  Representative Edgmon's                                                               
bill  regarding  the  water and  fishery  resources  impacted  by                                                               
Pebble Mine.   He explained that  the group will be  visiting the                                                               
mine site, and holding public hearings in the impacted villages.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO remarked that the visit will be very helpful.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Resources  Standing Committee  meeting was  adjourned at  2:17:30                                                             
PM.                                                                                                                           

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