Legislature(2007 - 2008)CAPITOL 124

01/31/2007 01:00 PM RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 87 CITIZEN ADVISORY COMM ON FEDERAL AREAS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 87(RES) Out of Committee
*+ HB 40 PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHB 40(RES) Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        January 31, 2007                                                                                        
                           1:01 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Carl Gatto, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Craig Johnson, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Bob Roses                                                                                                        
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
Representative Bryce Edgmon                                                                                                     
Representative Scott Kawasaki                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Vic Kohring                                                                                                      
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 40                                                                                                               
"An Act relating to voluntary land trades, purchases, and leases                                                                
to enhance public access to certain streams for fishing,                                                                        
hunting, and recreational activities."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 40(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 87                                                                                                               
"An Act reestablishing the Citizens' Advisory Commission on                                                                     
Federal Management Areas in Alaska; and providing for an                                                                        
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 87(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 40                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS                                                                                   
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) GARA                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
01/16/07       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/5/07                                                                                
01/16/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/16/07       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
01/31/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 87                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE: CITIZEN ADVISORY COMM ON FEDERAL AREAS                                                                             
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KELLY                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
01/16/07       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/12/07                                                                               
01/16/07       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/16/07       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
01/24/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
01/24/07       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/24/07       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
01/31/07       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA                                                                                                         
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 40.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
RICKY GEASE, Executive Director                                                                                                 
Kenai River Sportfishing Association (KRSA)                                                                                     
Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 40; testified in                                                                
support of HB 87.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ED FOGELS, Acting Deputy Commissioner                                                                                           
Anchorage Office                                                                                                                
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided information and answered questions                                                                
regarding HB 40.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DICK MYLIUS, Acting Director                                                                                                    
Central Office                                                                                                                  
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided information and answered questions                                                                
regarding HB 40; provided comments during discussion of HB 87.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MELANIE LESH, Legislative Liaison                                                                                               
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding HB 40.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE KELLY                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 87.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SUE STANCLIFF, Staff                                                                                                            
to Representative Mike Kelly                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Spoke on  behalf of  the sponsor of  HB 87,                                                               
Representative Kelly, and answered questions.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO, Executive Director                                                                                                    
Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC)                                                                                                    
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Spoke  in  support  of reestablishing  the                                                               
Citizens'  Advisory Commission  on  Federal  Management Areas  in                                                               
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TINA CUNNING, Special Assistant                                                                                                 
State/Federal Issues                                                                                                            
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding HB 87.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  CRAIG  JOHNSON  called  the  House  Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  1:01:15  PM.    Representatives                                                             
Roses, Edgmon, Kawasaki,  Gatto, and Johnson were  present at the                                                               
call to order.  Representatives  Seaton and Wilson arrived as the                                                               
meeting was in progress.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 40 - PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:01:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON  announced that  the  first  order of  business                                                               
would be  HOUSE BILL NO. 40,  "An Act relating to  voluntary land                                                               
trades,  purchases,  and  leases  to  enhance  public  access  to                                                               
certain   streams   for   fishing,  hunting,   and   recreational                                                               
activities."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LES  GARA,  Alaska  State  Legislature,  sponsor,                                                               
explained  that HB  40  would protect  public  access to  fishing                                                               
streams in the  future.  While Alaskans currently  enjoy the best                                                               
public access to  fishing streams of anywhere in  the country, he                                                               
warned that  Alaska is poised  to make  the same mistakes  as the                                                               
other  49 states.   He  relayed  how public  access to  Montana's                                                               
great fishing  streams is  now largely  prevented due  to private                                                               
landownership.   Only  people with  money or  special connections                                                               
are  now able  to  access Montana's  famous  fishing streams,  he                                                               
opined.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA   noted  that  the  Department   of  Natural                                                               
Resources (DNR) and the Alaska  Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                               
already have  the ability to  purchase land and easements,  so HB                                                               
40 does  not give them  any new power.   He pointed out  that the                                                               
bill simply  directs the DNR and  the ADF&G to work  together and                                                               
focus  their efforts  on purchasing  land or  easements in  those                                                               
areas where public access will be  lost in the future if the land                                                               
is developed.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  highlighted several prized fishing  areas in                                                               
Alaska  where  public access  will  be  lost when  the  privately                                                               
owned,  but  currently  undeveloped,  riverbanks  are  developed:                                                               
Anchor  River and  Deep  Creek on  the  Kenai Peninsula;  Montana                                                               
Creek,  Willow Creek,  and Little  Willow Creek  above the  Parks                                                               
Highway;  and  the  Salcha  River   located  off  the  Richardson                                                               
Highway.  By directing DNR and  ADF&G to focus on purchasing land                                                               
and/or  easements in  areas like  these, he  said, HB  40 ensures                                                               
that public access will be  maintained when the land is developed                                                               
in the future.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA went  on to explain that  under a 20-year-old                                                               
state land disposal  statute, the state retains  public access to                                                               
rivers when lands are disposed.   However, no access was retained                                                               
on state  lands disposed  before that law  went into  effect, nor                                                               
was access  retained on federal  lands disposed under  the Alaska                                                               
National  Interest Lands  Conservation  Act (ANILCA).   He  noted                                                               
that private  landownership along the aforementioned  rivers came                                                               
from ANILCA disposals.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA stressed  there  is nothing  in  HB 40  that                                                               
expands the state's rights of  eminent domain.  He emphasized the                                                               
bill's intent  is to  pursue voluntary  land trades  or purchases                                                               
with willing landowners.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:06:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO commented  that  eminent domain  pertains to  the                                                               
taking of private property for public  use.  Since HB 40 pertains                                                               
to  public use,  he said  he is  concerned that  the state  could                                                               
declare eminent domain over river  banks without taking the whole                                                               
piece of property.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  pointed out that  the eminent domain  law of                                                               
2006  was specifically  rewritten by  the legislature  to prevent                                                               
such use  of eminent domain  for obtaining trail  or recreational                                                               
access.  If  a landowner is unwilling to sell,  he emphasized, HB                                                               
40 requires the  state to look for another parcel  from a willing                                                               
seller.  In further response  to Representative Gatto's concerns,                                                               
he  noted that  the  bill  focuses on  remote  rivers, not  small                                                               
parcels of developed  urban land along a riverbank.   The purpose                                                               
of the  bill is  to obtain public  access before  development has                                                               
taken  place.    Once  land  is developed,  he  stressed,  it  is                                                               
prohibitively expensive to buy back.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:10:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  inquired about an apparent  conflict.  She                                                               
observed that on page 3, lines  28-29, subsection (e), it says in                                                               
part "shall  submit a plan  to acquire public access",  while the                                                               
third paragraph  of the sponsor  statement says  the commissioner                                                               
of DNR is directed to take action "as funding is available".                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA explained  that HB 40 is  essentially what he                                                               
termed a "paper  plan."  He assured the committee  that while the                                                               
DNR and  the ADF&G would  be required to  submit a plan,  it does                                                               
not force  them to  actually buy  the land.   If  the legislature                                                               
decides not to fund  a plan, then the agencies cannot  do it.  He                                                               
relayed  that  folks  within  the agencies  have  told  him  that                                                               
creating a plan  would be a helpful exercise  because it requires                                                               
them to  look ahead and focus  on identifying areas that  will be                                                               
important for public access in the future.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:12:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  expressed  apprehension  about  requiring                                                               
[the DNR  and the ADF&G] to  expend time and effort  developing a                                                               
public  access plan  that  the legislature  then  chooses not  to                                                               
fund.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  explained that the bill's  first fiscal note                                                               
of  $58,000  pays  for  developing  the initial  plan.    If  the                                                               
legislature does not fund purchasing  the areas identified in the                                                               
plan, then,  he said,  the plan  would simply  sit on  the shelf.                                                               
The agencies  are not required to  come up with a  new plan every                                                               
year.   Representative Gara advised that  due to an error  on his                                                               
part amendments to reduce the fiscal notes would be forthcoming.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:14:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICKY  GEASE,   Executive  Director,  Kenai   River  Sportfishing                                                               
Association (KRSA), offered his  organization's strong support of                                                               
HB 40.   He stated  that the KRSA  works in partnership  with the                                                               
ADF&G and  the DNR  on the  Kenai River and  other rivers  on the                                                               
Kenai  Peninsula.     The  bill  would   promote  upper  division                                                               
strategic planning and cooperation between  the DNR and the ADF&G                                                               
on  these issues.   Mr.  Gease predicted  that the  Kenai River's                                                               
trend  of property  prices doubling  every couple  of years  will                                                               
spread to Alaska's  other river systems.  The bill  is timely, he                                                               
said, because  it would  ensure public access  and save  money in                                                               
the long run.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:15:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ED FOGELS,  Acting Deputy Commissioner, Anchorage  Office, Office                                                               
of  the  Commissioner,  Department of  Natural  Resources  (DNR),                                                               
informed the committee  that the DNR staff has  reviewed the bill                                                               
and  the department  agrees that  the rivers  listed in  bill are                                                               
very  important to  the state.    He reported  that these  rivers                                                               
receive intensive  public use  for recreational  sportfishing and                                                               
that there are significant amounts  of private land along most of                                                               
these  rivers.    The department  believes  there  are  currently                                                               
access  problems and  that  there will  be  more access  problems                                                               
along these popular rivers in the future.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOGELS directed attention to  page 3, lines 21-24, subsection                                                               
(c), regarding the  words "amount of state land".   He noted that                                                               
some of  the lands being  acquired might be  right-of-ways rather                                                               
than absolute fee simple ownership.   Therefore, the DNR believes                                                               
"acreage of state  land" would be a better phrase.   That way, if                                                               
a certain  amount of acreage is  acquired, then the DNR  would be                                                               
required to dispose of the same amount of acreage.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  FOGELS also  pointed  out  that the  "no  net loss"  concept                                                               
embodied  in  the aforementioned  subsection  (c)  is keyed  into                                                               
subsection (b),  lines 15-20,  of the same  page.   He emphasized                                                               
that the  public access fund is  defined in statute as  a fund in                                                               
which  monies come  only from  individuals  or corporations,  not                                                               
from the state.  Therefore,  the DNR's interpretation is that the                                                               
"no net  loss" concept is  specifically tied only to  monies from                                                               
individuals or corporations, and not from state funds.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:18:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON asked  whether  Mr.  Fogels is  suggesting                                                               
that on page 3, line 16,  the words "or other funding sources" be                                                               
inserted after "AS 38.05.874".                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOGELS  clarified that the  DNR's interpretation of  the bill                                                               
as currently written is that the  "no net loss" concept would not                                                               
apply  if  state funds  are  used  to  acquire [land  for  public                                                               
access].   He said he  did not wish  to take  a stand one  way or                                                               
another, but merely to point out this interpretation.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:19:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO queried whether the  definition of "meander mile",                                                               
as used on page 4, line 11,  referred to the center of the stream                                                               
or to one bank.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOGELS  said, under the  DNR's definition, a meander  mile is                                                               
measured along  the bank  at ordinary high  water.   Addressing a                                                               
further question  by Representative Gatto, he  said the riverbank                                                               
measurement would  be taken along the  same side of the  river on                                                               
which the property was located.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:21:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON, after  ascertaining that no one  else wished to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on HB 40.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI moved that  the committee adopt Amendment                                                               
1, which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 4-5:                                                                                                         
          Delete "only include on the list land across                                                                      
       which the owner voluntarily is willing to allow or                                                                   
     negotiate public access."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
           Insert "exclude land from the list if the                                                                        
      commissioner is notified that the owner is unwilling                                                                  
     to allow or negotiate public access."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:22:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  explained that  Amendment 1  removes the                                                               
requirement that  the ADF&G commissioner  take action  before the                                                               
program is  actually funded.   The fiscal  note will  be adjusted                                                               
accordingly, he said.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:22:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  further  explained   that  Amendment  1  is                                                               
intended  to  resolve  the  ADF&G's concern  that  the  bill,  as                                                               
currently  written,  requires the  agency  to  phone every  owner                                                               
prior  to his  or her  land  being listed  in  the plan.   It  is                                                               
cheaper to first  put together the list of  places needing access                                                               
protection and then, if money  is appropriated, start negotiating                                                               
with the landowners.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON [although no  objection was stated] said he                                                               
was removing his objection.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:23:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON,  after ascertaining that there  were no further                                                               
objections, announced that Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:23:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI moved that  the committee adopt Amendment                                                               
2, which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, lines 20-21:                                                                                                       
         Delete "except that land adjacent to the Kenai                                                                     
       River that is downstream of Skilak Lake may not be                                                                   
     added to the list."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:24:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON objected for discussion purposes.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI explained that  last year's bill exempted                                                               
the  Kenai River  downstream of  Skilak Lake  and this  amendment                                                               
removes that exemption.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:24:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON  asked  whether  the  change  proposed  by                                                               
Amendment 2 was at DNR's request.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  noted that  [in 2006] there  was conflicting                                                               
testimony between  people who  did and did  not want  more public                                                               
access  on the  Kenai River.   He  emphasized that  HB 40  is not                                                               
focusing  on the  Kenai River,  as indicated  by the  bill naming                                                               
streams  where  there are  higher  public  access problems.    He                                                               
stressed that while some people  would like to garner more public                                                               
boat launch  areas on  the Kenai River,  [Amendment 2]  would not                                                               
require  that  additional access  be  purchased.   The  amendment                                                               
simply allows  the ADF&G  and the  DNR to do  so if  the agencies                                                               
determine it is a good use of public money.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON removed his objection.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:26:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON asked whether there  were any further objections                                                               
to  adopting Amendment  2.   There  being none,  Amendment 2  was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:26:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI moved that  the committee adopt Amendment                                                               
3, which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 8 after "prevents"                                                                                            
          Insert: ",or may prevent in the future,"                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 26:                                                                                                           
          Delete "may"                                                                                                      
          Insert "shall"                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 11, after "to the waterways is"                                                                               
          Insert: "or may in the future be"                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 21:                                                                                                           
          Delete "(b) of"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, lines 22:                                                                                                          
          Delete "acreage"                                                                                                  
          Insert "amount"                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:26:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  objected, noted  that the  change proposed                                                               
to page  3, line  22, of  the bill is  incorrect, and  moved that                                                               
that portion of  Amendment 3 that proposes to alter  page 3, line                                                               
22, of the bill be amended as follows:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 22:                                                                                                           
          Delete "amount"                                                                                                     
          Insert "acreage"                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON asked  whether there were any  objections to the                                                               
amendment  to Amendment  3.   There being  none, Amendment  3 was                                                               
amended.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:27:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  removed her  objection to Amendment  3, as                                                               
amended.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:28:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON  objected to  Amendment 3,  as amended,  for the                                                               
purpose of discussion.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  directed attention  to page 2,  line 8.   He                                                               
acknowledged  that private  ownership is  not currently  limiting                                                               
public access  to most waterways, but  that this is likely  to be                                                               
different  in the  future.   By  adding "or  may  prevent in  the                                                               
future" the  bill would be  addressing future problems  that will                                                               
likely occur.   He  continued that this  is the  same explanation                                                               
for amending page 3, line 11.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA then  directed attention to page  2, line 26.                                                               
He opined that  the commissioner of the DNR should  listen to the                                                               
public in coming  up with a list of places  deemed priorities for                                                               
regaining   public  access.     Therefore,   "shall"  should   be                                                               
substituted for "may".                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:29:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON   asked  if  requiring  [the   commissioner  to                                                               
consider  public comment  prior  to submitting  the  list to  the                                                               
legislature] would add to the fiscal note.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  responded that  he did not  believe so.   He                                                               
emphasized  his  desire  for a  public  comment  process  without                                                               
litigation  over  a  list.    The bill  provides  that  once  the                                                               
commissioner hears  the public comment  and makes  decisions, the                                                               
decisions  cannot be  appealed.   Although,  he said,  if it  was                                                               
determined in the future that the  DNR failed to do its job well,                                                               
this provision could be changed.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:30:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DICK  MYLIUS,  Acting  Director,   Central  Office,  Division  of                                                               
Mining, Land  and Water, Department  of Natural  Resources (DNR),                                                               
in response  to questions,  offered his  belief that  the ADF&G's                                                               
fiscal note has already factored  in the cost of providing public                                                               
involvement.   Additionally, he said,  he did not  think changing                                                               
"may"  to  "shall" would  affect  the  fiscal  note or  create  a                                                               
liability because the bill only  says the commissioner of the DNR                                                               
shall "consider"  public comments.   Further, he noted,  the bill                                                               
prevents the listing of unwilling sellers.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:32:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO  said  he  felt  the words  "in  the  future"  in                                                           
Amendment  3, as  amended, were  unnecessary given  the preceding                                                               
words "or may prevent".                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA agreed.   Responding  to  a suggestion  that                                                               
"preventing"  be substituted  for  "prevents" in  the portion  of                                                               
Amendment 3, as amended, that proposes  to change page 2, line 8,                                                               
Representative Gara  said he felt it  would create the risk  of a                                                               
judge  interpreting the  statute incorrectly.   He  then directed                                                               
attention to the change proposed in  Amendment 3, as amended,  to                                                               
page 3,  line 21, and  said deleting  "(b) of" would  achieve Mr.                                                           
Fogels's goal.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:34:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON questioned whether  deleting "(b) of" would                                                           
then allow  [the DNR]  to use other  funding sources  besides the                                                               
public access fund.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA explained  that the  public access  fund was                                                               
set up  only as a means  for the state to  receive private money,                                                               
and  HB  40  allows  the  commissioner to  use  these  monies  to                                                               
purchase  lands.    He  clarified  that  under  current  law  the                                                               
commissioner may  also use  general fund  (GF) money  to purchase                                                               
land.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  pointed out that  language on page  3, lines                                                               
21-24, subsection (c),  addresses a concern that there  be no net                                                               
loss of  private property  from the tax  rolls.   This subsection                                                               
provides that private land cannot  be purchased for public access                                                               
without the  commissioner disposing of  the same amount  of state                                                               
land for private use  in the same fiscal year.   The way the bill                                                               
is  currently written,  Representative Gara  noted, this  "no net                                                               
loss"  concept applies  only if  money  comes out  of the  public                                                               
access  fund, but  not if  the money  comes out  of the  GF.   By                                                               
deleting "(b) of",  the "no net loss"  concept applies regardless                                                           
of where the money comes from.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:37:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON presented  a hypothetical example involving                                                               
the  building  of  a  road  along a  river  for  the  purpose  of                                                               
recreational use.   Would  that be  considered public  access, he                                                               
asked, and  would it mean the  DNR could not obtain  access along                                                               
that road  unless the  same amount of  acreage was  released that                                                               
same year?   Could HB  40, he queried, constrain  obtaining other                                                               
access.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA said  he doubted  there could  be a  year in                                                               
which the  amount of road  built along  a river could  exceed the                                                               
amount of state land put up  for disposal.  However, he said, the                                                               
bill  could be  amended to  exempt access  obtained along  such a                                                               
road corridor.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:39:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYLIUS  added that  he  did  not  see any  problems  arising                                                               
because  the DNR  generally offers  up to  5000 acres  of land  a                                                               
year.  He said he doubted  that that much private land would need                                                               
to be  acquired, especially  if the  DNR was  primarily acquiring                                                               
easements along the shoreline.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:39:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES  voiced his concern that  replacing acre for                                                               
acre does  not necessarily mean  replacing value for value  as it                                                               
pertains to property tax rolls.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  responded  that the  importance  of  public                                                               
access to  fishing streams  is, in his  opinion, great  enough to                                                               
stand on  its own even  if a  thousand dollars' worth  of taxable                                                               
property  were  lost  in  the   process.    He  agreed  with  the                                                               
importance of a state policy  requiring that land taken back into                                                               
the  public domain  be replaced  with other  land being  put into                                                               
private  ownership.   Rewording  the bill  to require  equivalent                                                               
value  would  end  up  with  a lot  of  appraising.    Given  the                                                               
significant  amount of  land put  up for  disposal each  year, it                                                               
would be an unlikely problem, he opined.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:41:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROSES clarified that  he is merely questioning the                                                               
rationale.    He  said  he  feels  it  is  important  to  make  a                                                               
distinction that  equal acreage  is not equal  value.   He agreed                                                               
with  Representative Gara  that the  value of  public access  far                                                               
outweighs the loss in revenue.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:42:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EDGMON  requested clarification regarding  page 3,                                                               
lines 28-29,  subsection (e).   Does "shall  submit a  plan" mean                                                               
the ADF&G  shall make available  a plan?   Would the plan  be in-                                                               
house at  the ADF&G and the  DNR, he asked, and  not be submitted                                                               
to the legislature or some outside entity.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  responded that  the bill requires  the ADF&G                                                               
and  the  DNR  to  come  up   with  a  planning  document.    The                                                               
departments may or may not present  it to the legislature, but he                                                               
hoped they would.   By forcing the departments to  come up with a                                                               
plan, he stressed,  it makes them think through the  problem.  It                                                               
would  be the  commissioners' decision  as to  whether presenting                                                               
the plan to the legislature was a priority for that year.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:44:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON  directed  the committee's  attention  back  to                                                               
Amendment 3, as amended.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:44:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  [although he had not  stated an objection]                                                               
said he was removing his objection.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON  removed  his  objection  to  Amendment  3,  as                                                               
amended.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:44:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON asked whether there  were any further objections                                                               
to  adopting  Amendment  3,  as   amended.    There  being  none,                                                               
Amendment 3, as amended, was adopted.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:45:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EDGMON suggested  the committee  consider whether                                                               
or  not  it wants  to  require  submission  of  the plan  to  the                                                               
legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA surmised  that it  probably would  not be  a                                                               
separation  of powers  issue and  therefore  the committee  could                                                               
make it be a requirement.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:45:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOGELS  said he is unsure  whether the DNR has  an opinion as                                                               
to whether  submitting the  plan to the  legislature should  be a                                                               
requirement, but  he said he  did not  think it would  matter one                                                               
way or the other.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:46:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON inquired whether the  DNR would come to the                                                               
legislature  automatically  if  the   bill  stayed  as  currently                                                               
written.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOGELS  stated that  his interpretation of  the bill  is that                                                               
the  DNR   would  be  required   to  present  the  plan   to  the                                                               
legislature, and it would be his intention to do so regardless.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:47:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  recommended  the  committee  specifically                                                               
state its intent one way or the other.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:47:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON queried  as  to whether  the  DNR and  the                                                               
ADF&G submitted  annual reports to  the legislature.  He  said he                                                               
is concerned that  the departments not be required  to submit the                                                               
plan as a separate report if it could be incorporated elsewhere.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. FOGELS  stated that  the DNR submits  several reports  to the                                                               
legislature  every year,  but  he is  unsure  if this  particular                                                               
report could be incorporated into any  of the others.  In further                                                               
response to Co-Chair  Johnson, he said he guesses  the plan could                                                               
probably be incorporated.  However,  without the list of required                                                               
reports at his  fingertips, he is unable to say  for certain, and                                                               
suggested that it may be cleaner to submit a separate report.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:48:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO  asked for clarification about  whether submitting                                                               
a document  to the legislature  meant a  report would go  to each                                                               
individual member or a single report would go to the speaker.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MELANIE LESH,  Legislative Liaison,  Office of  the Commissioner,                                                               
Department of  Natural Resources (DNR), reported  that several of                                                               
the  DNR's  divisions  have   statutory  requirements  to  submit                                                               
reports to the  legislature.  Each report has  different due days                                                               
in statute, and she will  often combine a division's reports into                                                               
one document.   She explained  that she  makes 60 copies  of each                                                               
report and  delivers them  to the  Senate president's  office and                                                               
the House speaker's office for distribution.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:51:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON inquired  as to whether HB  40's February 1                                                               
report  date would  fit  in with  any of  the  other report  date                                                               
requirements.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. LESH affirmed that it would.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:52:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO moved  that the  committee adopt  Conceptual                                                                    
Amendment  4, adding  "to the  legislature"  after the  word                                                                    
"submit"  on page  3, line  29.   There being  no objection,                                                                    
Conceptual Amendment 4 was adopted.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:53:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON moved  to report HB 40, as  amended, out of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
[fiscal  notes].   There  being no  objection,  CSHB 40(RES)  was                                                               
reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HB 87 - CITIZEN ADVISORY COMM ON FEDERAL AREAS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:54:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON announced that the  last order of business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  BILL NO.  87,  "An  Act reestablishing  the  Citizens'                                                               
Advisory Commission  on Federal  Management Areas in  Alaska; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:55:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  moved  to adopt  the  proposed  committee                                                               
substitute  (CS)   for  HB  87,  Version   25-LS0306\L,  Bullard,                                                               
1/31/07,  as the  working document.   There  being no  objection,                                                               
Version L was before the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:55:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUE STANCLIFF,  Staff to Representative Mike  Kelly, Alaska State                                                               
Legislature,   sponsor,  on   behalf  of   Representative  Kelly,                                                               
summarized  the 1/25/07  legal  opinion  prepared by  Legislative                                                               
Legal and  Research Services.   The  opinion clearly  states, she                                                               
said,  that since  the Citizens'  Advisory Commission  on Federal                                                               
Management Areas in Alaska acts  only in an advisory capacity and                                                               
makes no  final decisions affecting anyone's  rights; the opinion                                                               
does  not envision  the state  being held  liable because  of the                                                               
commission's actions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. STANCLIFF,  on the  issue of  the prior  commission's funding                                                               
history,  said  that  Legislative  Legal  and  Research  Services                                                               
prepared a history which shows  the commission began in 1987 with                                                               
two staff  [and an annual budget  of $209,800] and ended  in 1999                                                               
with a staff of  one and a budget of $86,300.   She further noted                                                               
the  committee's  packets include  letters  of  support from  the                                                               
Alaska  Outdoor   Council  and   the  Kenai   River  Sportfishing                                                               
Association.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:58:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MIKE KELLY,  Alaska  State Legislature,  sponsor,                                                               
detailed the  changes encompassed  in Version L.   The  number of                                                               
commission  members, as  outlined in  proposed AS  41.37.170, has                                                               
been reduced from 16 members to  12 and this reduction could have                                                               
a positive  impact on  the fiscal  note, he  commented.   He then                                                               
directed attention  to page 2,  proposed AS 41.37.190,  and noted                                                               
that all terms are now four years.   He also pointed out that the                                                               
transitional language  on page 4  provides for staggering  of the                                                               
terms   in  order   to  preserve   the  commission's   historical                                                               
perspective.   Version L also  establishes a sunset date  of June                                                               
30, 2014,  which is  intended to  give the  commission sufficient                                                               
time to get up and running, he advised.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:00:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   JOHNSON  asked   whether  Version   L  addresses   the                                                               
committee's concerns about the commission's regional make-up.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLY responded  that  both he  and Tina  Cunning                                                               
believe  the  original language  is  adequate  and allows  for  a                                                               
commission that is responsive to  and reflective of the different                                                               
users  and  uses.    Also, the  original  language  helps  ensure                                                               
diversity  because   of  its  reference  to   the  four  judicial                                                               
districts.  He  expressed concern about getting tied  up by being                                                               
too specific.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:02:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  pointed out that on  other commissions the                                                               
seats are  designated so that  when re-appointments are  made and                                                               
the people change,  the diversity remains.  He  opined that given                                                               
the seven  year timeline,  it is  especially important  to ensure                                                               
diversity.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:03:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON  said  he  is   unsure  whether  the  committee                                                               
understands the  users and uses that  would be dealt with  by the                                                               
commission.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:04:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON  inquired  whether   the  users  would  be                                                               
trappers, hunters, fishermen, and/or other users.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KELLY   noted   that    in   addition   to   the                                                               
aforementioned, there  are miners and  many others, so  trying to                                                               
be  specific  will result  in  missing  some.   Additionally,  he                                                               
pointed  out, it  is unknown  today  what changes  in uses  might                                                               
occur in the future.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:06:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLY,  in  response  to a  question,  said  that                                                               
commission  members   appointed  by   the  legislature   will  be                                                               
appointed by the speaker of the House and the Senate president.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:08:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  GATTO moved  adoption of  [Conceptual Amendment  1], to                                                               
delete from  page 2, line  24, after  "by", the words,  "a member                                                               
of".    There being  no  objection,  Conceptual Amendment  1  was                                                               
adopted.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLY, in  response to  comments, reiterated  his                                                               
belief that  it would  not be a  good idea to  make the  bill too                                                               
specific with regard to membership make-up.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:11:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROD  ARNO,  Executive  Director, Alaska  Outdoor  Council  (AOC),                                                               
stated  the  AOC's  support   for  reestablishing  the  Citizens'                                                               
Advisory Commission  on Federal  Areas in  Alaska.   He described                                                               
his participation  on behalf of  the AOC  in a number  of federal                                                               
public processes dealing  with access, the [U.S.]  Bureau of Land                                                               
Management (BLM), and resource management  plans around the state                                                               
for  federal refuges,  parks, and  wild  and scenic  rivers.   He                                                               
noted  the   AOC  was  an   intervener  in  a   lawsuit  blocking                                                               
recreational access  in the Nabesna Road  area.  The AOC  is also                                                               
an intervener  with the  state on navigable  waters issues.   Mr.                                                               
Arno said he has participated  in game management issues, and has                                                               
provided  public  comment  on hunting  closures  of  the  Kenai's                                                               
Skilak Lake  Loop area,  as well  as bear  hunting in  the McNeil                                                               
River area.   Additionally, the  AOC has participated  before the                                                               
Federal    Subsistence    Board     on    the    "rural/non-rural                                                               
determination."   In all  of these cases,  he stressed,  it would                                                               
have been nice  to have had this commission to  help the citizens                                                               
of Alaska.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:13:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
RICKY  GEASE,   Executive  Director,  Kenai   River  Sportfishing                                                               
Association  (KRSA),  presented  his  organization's  support  of                                                               
HB 87.   He explained  that the KRSA  interacts with  the federal                                                               
government  regarding fishery  conservation  concerns and  access                                                               
issues on the Kenai Peninsula.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:14:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON asked Mr.  Arno whether he felt comfortable                                                               
with how the bill is worded  regarding the diversity of users and                                                               
uses.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  ARNO stated  that based  on  his experience  with the  prior                                                               
commission, it  seemed that  the different  users of  public land                                                               
were represented.   Responding further to  Representative Wilson,                                                               
he said  he believes  the language  is identical  to that  of the                                                               
original authorizing legislation.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:15:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO asked Mr. Arno  whether he thought the state could                                                               
really  have any  influence over  federal  management of  federal                                                               
lands.    He  also  asked  for Mr.  Arno's  opinion  regarding  a                                                               
hypothetical situation  in which the federal  government were the                                                               
one with an advisory commission before the state.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. ARNO cited a case on  navigable waters as an example that the                                                               
only way  to get  the attention  of federal  land managers  is in                                                               
court.    The  commission  could tell  the  legislature  and  the                                                               
administration when it  will be necessary to file  suit in court.                                                               
Another  example he  cited  involved environmental  organizations                                                               
suing to  block access in  the Nebesna Road area  of Wrangell-St.                                                               
Elias National Park & Preserve.   It would have been nice to have                                                               
the  state intervene  in that  suit, he  remarked; unfortunately,                                                               
litigation [seems  to be] the  only way  to get the  attention of                                                               
federal land managers.   Additionally, he said, it  would be fine                                                               
with  him if  the shoe  were on  the other  foot and  the federal                                                               
government had an advisory committee before the state.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:17:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO expressed his belief  that a commission assembling                                                               
information  would  be  much more  credible  than  an  individual                                                               
person.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:18:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON asked about the  issue of the commission's make-                                                               
up and the  need for designating specific user  groups as opposed                                                               
to the language currently in the bill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:18:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TINA CUNNING, Special Assistant,  State/Federal Issues, Office of                                                               
the  Commissioner,  Alaska Department  of  Fish  & Game  (ADF&G),                                                               
noted that  she has  been involved in  the implementation  of the                                                               
Alaska National  Interest Lands  Conservation Act  (ANILCA) since                                                               
its passage in 1980.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DICK  MYLIUS,  Acting  Director,   Central  Office,  Division  of                                                               
Mining, Land  and Water, Department  of Natural  Resources (DNR),                                                               
said there  are both  pros and cons  to having  specific language                                                               
regarding the  commission's makeup.   He  indicated that  some of                                                               
the  various  advisory  committees advising  the  DNR,  primarily                                                               
those for parks, do have  very specific requirements for make-up.                                                               
For  example,  the  Wood-Tikchik State  Park  Management  Council                                                               
requires that specific villages  be represented on the [council].                                                               
In those areas  where it is for  a specific area like  a park, he                                                               
said he thought it had worked  very well.  Since some commissions                                                               
have general guidelines like [HB  87] and some have very specific                                                               
ones,  he said  he finds  it hard  to say  whether one  way works                                                               
better  than the  other.   But,  he  said, he  felt  that if  the                                                               
language were too specific it could create problems.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:21:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  CUNNING  added  that  the   appointments  are  made  by  the                                                               
governor, the  Senate president,  and the  speaker of  the House.                                                               
In her opinion,  she relayed, that alone ensures  that there will                                                               
be  a  wide  variety  of   representation.    The  four  judicial                                                               
districts  will also  be  looking at  it to  make  sure the  user                                                               
groups are represented.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:21:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON closed public testimony on HB 87.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:22:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO asked Representative Kelly  whether he is aware of                                                               
any lawsuits brought  against the federal government  as a result                                                               
of action taken by the commission.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY  said he  is unaware  of any  such lawsuits.                                                               
He went on  to explain that the beauty of  the commission is that                                                               
it resolves problems without having  to file suits.  A commission                                                               
composed  of Alaskans,  ensures  that the  state's residents  are                                                               
treated  fairly  according to  the  law.    It may  well  prevent                                                               
lawsuits, he emphasized, rather than triggering them.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:23:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROSES  said  he   appreciated  the  opinion  from                                                               
Legislative Legal  and Research  Services, but  remains concerned                                                               
about creating  a disparity,  and the position  it could  put the                                                               
state in if  the commission advises the attorney  general to file                                                               
a  suit in  one case  but not  in another.   In  this regard,  he                                                               
added, the testimony  from [the AOC and the KRSA]  that "it would                                                               
have been nice  to have help" on the two  lawsuits makes him feel                                                               
worse  rather  than   better.    He  supports   the  concept,  he                                                               
explained, but  still has difficulty  with the  lawsuit provision                                                               
of [Section 41.37.250].                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:24:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  asked whether  the sponsor  would object                                                               
to removing the  suit provision of [Section  41.37.250], since it                                                               
seems obvious  that commissions have an  opportunity to recommend                                                               
a course  of action  to any  department.  He  noted he  had never                                                               
seen  "that  word"  in  any   statute  pertaining  to  any  other                                                               
commission.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KELLY  responded that  he  would  have a  problem                                                               
removing [Section 41.37.250].  He  said that specifically stating                                                               
in the bill that the commission  has the power to recommend legal                                                               
action to the attorney general puts more teeth into it.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:25:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON surmised that  the commission would be able                                                               
to recommend  suit regardless of whether  the language pertaining                                                               
to suits is included in the bill.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY  acknowledged that  since the bill  does not                                                               
prevent suits, it could be  construed to mean that the commission                                                               
could  recommend  suits.    However,  he  pointed  out  that  the                                                               
commission is strictly  advisory because it cannot  bring or file                                                               
a lawsuit  it can only make the recommendation.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:26:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON   noted  that  the   aforementioned  legal                                                               
opinion does not say anything about lawsuits.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY concurred that  the opinion illustrates that                                                               
the  commission is  strictly advisory,  that it  cannot bring  or                                                               
file an action.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:27:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSON agreed  that the ability to  recommend a lawsuit                                                               
gives the commission  some teeth and brings people  to the table.                                                               
He said he felt it would be  unwise to take that provision out of                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:27:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR GATTO asked if the fiscal note is still indeterminate.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY said it is.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. STANCLIFF  informed the committee  that there would be  a new                                                               
fiscal  note based  on  Version  L which  reduces  the number  of                                                               
commission members.   She also noted, however,  that the decision                                                               
regarding the  number and  location of  commission staff  has not                                                               
yet been made and so the fiscal note remains indeterminate.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY said he did  not know whether a solid number                                                               
for  the  fiscal note  could  be  determined  at this  time,  but                                                               
remarked  that parameters  have now  been set  for arriving  at a                                                               
more solid number.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:29:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON   suggested  that   a  fiscal  note   could  be                                                               
extrapolated   by  reviewing   the   history   of  the   previous                                                               
commission.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:29:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KAWASAKI questioned  whether there  really is  no                                                               
other commission,  no other  department, and  no other  person in                                                               
the  Department of  Law or  the  ADF&G, that  actually reacts  to                                                               
federal issues within the state.   He has a problem, he stressed,                                                               
with  establishing  more  commissions   when  there  are  already                                                               
commissions  for too  many things  that could  be dealt  with in-                                                               
house.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STANCLIFF  responded  that  there  are  currently  no  other                                                               
departments,   agencies,   divisions,   or  entities   that   are                                                               
representing  the public  on federal  issues.   There are  ANILCA                                                               
coordinators in  the DNR and  the ADF&G,  but they are  there for                                                               
the state, not  the general public.  She  explained that citizens                                                               
are not familiar  enough with the ANILCA to be  able to interpret                                                               
federal  regulations.   She said  she believes  Alaska's citizens                                                               
are being  harassed [by  federal land managers]  and that  is why                                                               
reestablishing the commission is important.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:31:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KAWASAKI  asked if this  meant that had he  been a                                                               
user  with questions  or  comments over  the  past several  years                                                               
without the  commission, would he not  have had a way  to talk to                                                               
someone in the commissioners' offices.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  STANCLIFF  said  no.    The  public  has  had  to  call  the                                                               
legislature, but  legislative staff  does not have  the expertise                                                               
to  interpret federal  regulations.   She cited  a case  that she                                                               
dealt with  in her office  that took  over two years  to resolve,                                                               
but that  a commission could  have resolved  the case in  a month                                                               
because of its expertise.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:32:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EDGMON observed  that  the real  question is  not                                                               
whether the  commission serves a  valid purpose, but  whether the                                                               
state can  afford another commission while  departments are being                                                               
asked to make budget cuts.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:33:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSON disagreed.   He  suggested  the committee  deal                                                               
only with  the bill's resource  aspect and let the  House Finance                                                               
Committee deal with the financial aspect.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:34:18 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON moved to report  the proposed CS for HB 87,                                                               
Version  25-LS0306\L,  Bullard,  1/31/07,   as  amended,  out  of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal  notes.    There  being no  objection,  CSHB  87(RES)  was                                                               
reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Resources  Standing Committee  meeting was  adjourned at  2:34:34                                                             
PM.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                

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