Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 124

02/09/2005 01:00 PM RESOURCES


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HJR 6 LABELING OF FISH PRODUCTS TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHJR 6(FSH) Out of Committee
+= HB 107 ATTY FEES: HUNTING/FISHING INTERFERENCE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
*+ HB 130 UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        February 9, 2005                                                                                        
                           1:02 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jay Ramras, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative Ralph Samuels, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Jim Elkins                                                                                                       
Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                       
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Representative Kurt Olson                                                                                                       
Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                      
Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                   
Representative Mary Kapsner                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6                                                                                                    
Relating to  the labeling of  fish and shellfish to  identify the                                                               
country  of origin  and to  distinguish between  wild and  farmed                                                               
fish and shellfish.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHJR6(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 107                                                                                                              
"An Act providing for the award  of full actual attorney fees and                                                               
costs to a person aggrieved  by unlawful obstruction or hindrance                                                               
of hunting, fishing,  or viewing of fish or  game; amending Rules                                                               
79 and  82, Alaska  Rules of Civil  Procedure; and  amending Rule                                                               
508, Alaska Rules of Appellate Procedure."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 130                                                                                                              
"An Act granting  certain state land to the  University of Alaska                                                               
and establishing  the university  research forest;  and providing                                                               
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
BILL: HJR  6                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: LABELING OF FISH PRODUCTS                                                                                          
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KERTTULA                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
01/19/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/19/05       (H)       FSH, RES                                                                                               
01/26/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
01/26/05       (H)       -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                                 
01/26/05       (H)       RES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
01/26/05       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
01/31/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
01/31/05       (H)       -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                                 
02/02/05       (H)       FSH RPT CS(FSH) NT 6DP                                                                                 
02/02/05       (H)       DP: HARRIS, ELKINS, SALMON, WILSON,                                                                    
                         THOMAS, LEDOUX                                                                                         
02/02/05       (H)       FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
02/02/05       (H)       Moved CSHJR 6(FSH) Out of Committee                                                                    
02/02/05       (H)       MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                            
02/09/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 107                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ATTY FEES: HUNTING/FISHING INTERFERENCE                                                                            
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) RAMRAS                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
01/24/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/24/05       (H)       RES, JUD                                                                                               
02/02/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
02/02/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/02/05       (H)       MINUTE(RES)                                                                                            
02/09/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 130                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST                                                                                 
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
02/07/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/07/05       (H)       RES, FIN                                                                                               
02/09/05       (H)       RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JIM POUND, Staff                                                                                                                
to Representative Jay Ramras                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented CSHB 107(RES) on behalf of Senator                                                                
Ramras, sponsor.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT LOEFFLER, Director                                                                                                       
Division of Mining, Land and Water                                                                                              
Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                                                                           
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 130.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
JOE BEEDLE, Vice President for Finance                                                                                          
Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer Trustee                                                                                   
Land Grant Endowment Fund                                                                                                       
University of Alaska                                                                                                            
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 130.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CECIL RANNEY, Assembly Member                                                                                                   
Kodiak Island Borough Assembly                                                                                                  
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ANISA BERRY                                                                                                                     
Port Alexander, Alaska                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
LANI BRENNAN                                                                                                                    
Anchorage and Baranof Warm Springs, Alaska                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JULIE KAVANAUGH                                                                                                                 
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MARY MONTGOMERY, Director                                                                                                       
University Land Management Office                                                                                               
University of Alaska                                                                                                            
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 130.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MIKE ROUND, Assistant General Manager                                                                                           
Southern Southeast Regional Aquaculture Association (SSRAA)                                                                     
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
KENNETH DUGGETT, Executive Director                                                                                             
United Southeast Alaska Gill Netters                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
IVAR MALUTIN                                                                                                                    
Kodiak Area Native Association                                                                                                  
Kodiak, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE WALLACE, Commercial Fisherman                                                                                             
Ketchikan, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MARTIN JR                                                                                                                  
Tenakee Tribal Council of Elders                                                                                                
Tenakee, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MARTIN SR                                                                                                                  
Tenakee, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in opposition to HB 130.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JAY   RAMRAS  called   the  House   Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  1:02:06  PM.    Representatives                                                             
LeDoux, Elkins,  Ramras, Samuels,  Seaton, Olson, and  Gatto were                                                               
present  at the  call  to order.    Representatives Crawford  and                                                               
Kapsner arrived as  the meeting was in  progress.  Representative                                                               
Beth Kerttula was also present.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HJR  6-LABELING OF FISH PRODUCTS                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6  Relating to the labeling of fish                                                               
and  shellfish  to   identify  the  country  of   origin  and  to                                                               
distinguish between wild and farmed fish and shellfish.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  moved  to   report  CSHJR  6(FSH)  out  of                                                               
committee  with individual  recommendations and  the accompanying                                                               
fiscal  notes.  There  being  no   objection,  CSHJR  6(FSH)  was                                                               
reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:02:19 PM to 1:03:44 PM.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SAMUELS said  that HJR  6 was  not discussed  because a                                                               
letter regarding  the fish labeling  issue was already  sent from                                                               
the legislature to meet a federal timeline.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
HB 107-ATTY FEES: HUNTING/FISHING INTERFERENCE                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
1:04:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 107  "An Act providing  for the award  of full                                                               
actual attorney fees and costs  to a person aggrieved by unlawful                                                               
obstruction or hindrance of hunting,  fishing, or viewing of fish                                                               
or  game;  amending  Rules  79  and 82,  Alaska  Rules  of  Civil                                                               
Procedure;  and  amending Rule  508,  Alaska  Rules of  Appellate                                                               
Procedure."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SAMUELS  moved  to  adopt the  CSHB  107,  Version  24-                                                               
LS0444\F Utermohle, 2/7/05, as a work draft.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON objected for discussion purposes.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:05 PM to 1:09:25 PM.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:09:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JIM  POUND, Staff  to Representative  Jay  Ramras, described  the                                                               
changes made to HB  107.  He said "we added  in language that was                                                               
in  the section  790 which  was  the proceeding  of the  original                                                               
bill."   He  added that  "in  discussions with  the Alaska  State                                                               
Troopers  and the  court system,  these are  additions that  they                                                               
thought would  help, particularly with the  court system's fiscal                                                               
note, possibly bringing it down to zero."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  noted that the  first addition is  on page 2,  lines 4                                                               
and  5, "this  is  based on  a criminal  situation  in which  the                                                               
individual actually  cut a  trap line  and released  the animals,                                                               
but because  of the  existing statute the  only thing  they could                                                               
charge the  individual with was  criminal mischief."   The second                                                               
change, he said, is  on page 2, lines 14 and 15,  and is based on                                                               
a suit  that was recently  settled.  He  said the state  was sued                                                               
after  a fish  and  wildlife enforcement  helicopter disrupted  a                                                               
commercial fishing  operation.   Mr. Pound  said the  change will                                                               
protect police officers and law  enforcement officials from being                                                               
sued for obstruction.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND stated  that regarding full attorney fees,  "in most of                                                               
the cases that we'll be looking  at that's in Section 791, that's                                                               
the original language  of the bill, we are  normally dealing with                                                               
something that [has] already had  a criminal conviction.  This is                                                               
primarily language intended to further  induce individuals not to                                                               
obstruct people  enjoying the Alaska  lifestyle, similar  to what                                                               
the criminal side  of it would be."  Mr.  Pound said the original                                                               
language in  statute contains the term  "intentionally obstruct,"                                                               
which is  described in Black's Law  as he read: "to  do something                                                               
purposefully   and  not   accidentally,"  and   "a  person   acts                                                               
intentionally if he desires to  cause consequences of his acts or                                                               
he  believes  that  consequences  are  substantially  certain  to                                                               
result."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said he noticed that  obstruction offenses                                                               
do  not  apply  to  lawful competitive  practices  among  persons                                                               
engaged in  lawful hunting, fishing,  or trapping.   He expressed                                                               
his concern that the laws  regarding the distance between nets in                                                               
a  gill net  fishery may  result in  unlawful fishing  practices.                                                               
"Therefore,"  he said,  "commercial fishing  in those  situations                                                               
would be  included in this  full award  of attorney fees  for the                                                               
plaintiff."  He asked Mr. Pound if that is correct.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:14:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND said he believes Representative Seaton is correct.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  RAMRAS  closed  public  testimony  after  no  one  came                                                               
forward to testify.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  removed his  objection to the  adoption of                                                               
CSHB 107,  Version 24-LS0444\F Utermohle,  2/7/05,.   There being                                                               
no further objection, Version F was before the committee.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SAMUELS moved  to report  CSHB 107,  Version F,  out of                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON objected.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON said  that  there  could be  unanticipated                                                               
consequences by  including commercial fishermen.   If a fisherman                                                               
is sued  for having nets  too close to another  fisherman's nets,                                                               
the  plaintiff could  get full  attorney fees  and the  defendant                                                               
would  be  limited by  Rule  82  of  the  Alaska Rules  of  Civil                                                               
Procedure.  "So  I do not think that we  have solved that problem                                                               
in this bill," he said.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX said  she has  the same  problem with  the                                                               
legislation, and  it "goes beyond  the commercial  fishing aspect                                                               
of  things,   although  I  see   that,  actually,  as   the  most                                                               
significant  problem."    She  said   that  the  ability  of  the                                                               
plaintiff to  get full attorney  fees and the defendant,  even if                                                               
fully exonerated, is  limited to 30 percent of  the attorney fees                                                               
- "that just strikes me as fundamentally unfair."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  said that  the legislation also  takes out                                                               
the word  "reasonable," so that  there won't be  consideration of                                                               
the number of  lawyers.  The defendant could be  charged full and                                                               
actual  attorney fees  "no matter  how egregious"  the costs  and                                                               
fees  are, he  said.   He also  warned that  "we may  have people                                                               
loading up attorney fees to make  the other person default on the                                                               
case instead of having the case go to court."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:18:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  said a person  suing for $3,000  could have                                                               
attorney fees  build up to $10,000.   Without Rule 82  a litigant                                                               
could hire  a "bank  of attorneys"  knowing he  or she  could get                                                               
those fees  back.   He said  he is concerned  that there  will be                                                               
people not  willing to take a  risk because they could  afford to                                                               
pay judgment but  not attorney fees, and  intimidation will cause                                                               
them to default in the judgment.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:20:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ELKINS said  that he  had the  same concern.   "I                                                               
can't support this."                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:20:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  said, "...let's take  it back and we'll  work on                                                               
it some more, clean it up, and bring it back."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[HB 107 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 130-UNIVERSITY LAND GRANT/STATE FOREST                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:20:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 130   "An Act  granting certain state  land to                                                               
the  University   of  Alaska  and  establishing   the  university                                                               
research  forest;  and providing  for  an  effective date."    He                                                               
announced that it is not the  intent of the committee to amend or                                                               
move HB 130 today.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:21:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT LOEFFLER,  Director, Division  of Mining, Land  and Water,                                                               
Department of  Natural Resources,  said that  he will  cover "the                                                               
problems   and   opportunities   that   this   bill   addresses."                                                               
"Currently our land  grant University of Alaska has  a land grant                                                               
of approximately  170,000 acres,"  he said.   "It  is one  of the                                                               
smallest  land grants  of any  of  our western  state land  grant                                                               
institutions."   He  added  that the  idea  of adding  additional                                                               
lands   has   been   addressed   numerous   times   by   previous                                                               
legislatures, most recently  in 2001 when a bill  was proposed to                                                               
transfer  260,000  acres to  the  university.    The bill  had  a                                                               
selection  process   that  was   cumbersome  and   prevented  the                                                               
university from getting  good lands, he said.   This current bill                                                               
avoids  a  long, expensive  selection  process,  because DNR  has                                                               
already listed  71 parcels, he said.   He added that  the cost to                                                               
the state will  come only from title  searches, identification of                                                               
existing rights, and  the necessary work to  retain public access                                                               
and easements.  Mr. Loeffler listed  the advantages of HB 130: it                                                               
is much cheaper,  it finishes the problem quickly,  it provides a                                                               
stable useful portfolio to the  university, and it eliminates the                                                               
"cloud on  title" that could  occur from  lands being in  a limbo                                                               
status while the selection process proceeds.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:24:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said that HB 130  will transfer 260,000 acres to the                                                               
University  of  Alaska.     One  third  of  the   lands  are  for                                                               
educational purposes,  which are  not designed primarily  to make                                                               
money,  including a  51,000-acre research  forest, which  will be                                                               
managed by DNR  but dedicated for purposes of research.   He said                                                               
it will  be one  of the largest  university-owned forests  in the                                                               
nation.     There  are  12  properties   statewide  proposed  for                                                               
educational purposes, comprising 90,000 acres.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said that another  90,000 acres will be comprised of                                                               
prospective oil and  gas lands, opposite Nenana, which  will be a                                                               
potential long-term  income source for  the University.   He said                                                               
that if commercial  quantities of gas are found, the  gas will be                                                               
exportable to Fairbanks.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  said that  the final  80,000 acres  in SB  130, are                                                               
near-  and mid-term  investment properties,  which can  be turned                                                               
into cash more quickly.   These are located throughout the state,                                                               
but half the  acreage is in Southeast Alaska.   He explained that                                                               
DNR no longer  has valuable lands that are  good for "subdividing                                                               
that can  be quickly turned  into cash"  on the road  system near                                                               
Anchorage or Fairbanks, because  "DNR's holdings have been picked                                                               
over."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS asked  if the university has  the same statewide                                                               
rules as DNR for leasing oil and gas lands.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  said that currently there  is a license on  the oil                                                               
and  gas  land by  Andex  Corporation,  so that  exploration  and                                                               
development rights  will continue  to belong  to Andex,  and they                                                               
will  operate under  their DNR  lease, but  if Andex  leaves, the                                                               
university would operate under different leasing rules than DNR.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:28:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOEFFLER said  the most  valuable lands  are the  44 parcels                                                               
throughout Southeast  Alaska.  During  the selection  process DNR                                                               
excluded  Division  of Forestry  lands  because  it would  reduce                                                               
DNR's  allowable cut  which in  turn would  reduce the  amount of                                                               
timber  going to  local mills.   He  said DNR  also excluded  any                                                               
lands that  it was planning to  sell within the next  five years.                                                               
He said  that DNR also  tried to  exclude "sensitive areas."   He                                                               
explained that it  was impractical to go to  all the communities,                                                               
so DNR used  its area plan process.   DNR "tried to  look at only                                                               
the  lands that  are  categorized in  a  "development category  -                                                               
particularly settlement  or general use."   He added that  of the                                                               
44 parcels, 37 are classified for  settlement or general use.  He                                                               
said that "the importance of  the Southeast parcels are that they                                                               
are the  major near-term  income source for  this package."   Mr.                                                               
Loeffler  said that  DNR would  have liked  to pick  parcels that                                                               
weren't  in  "someone's  backyard,"   but  it  is  not  possible;                                                               
everywhere is in someone's backyard, he said.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR SAMUELS  asked Mr. Loeffler  to describe  the difference                                                               
between how the University and DNR would sell land.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER answered  that DNR has an  expansive public process,                                                               
first  going  through an  area  plan  to  classify a  parcel  for                                                               
settlement,  followed  by a  best  interest  finding with  public                                                               
notice, and then DNR sells it competitively.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:32:13 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  SAMUELS asked  if there  is a  state program  that does                                                               
that on an ongoing basis.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER answered in the affirmative.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON noted  that when the state  sells land they                                                               
are  required to  maintain access  rights,  and he  asked if  the                                                               
university lands will have the same process.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER replied  that most of DNR's maps  for the university                                                               
transfers show  easements, but  the law  says DNR  would identify                                                               
those  areas  during  the   title  process,  including  navigable                                                               
waters, which will be retained in DNR management.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON  asked if the  same process is done  by DNR                                                               
whether it is selling to the university or to an individual.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said yes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD said  that  he  couldn't understand  how                                                               
many of  the lands were chosen.   He expressed his  desire to get                                                               
the most money to the university  in the shortest amount of time,                                                               
and that some parcels don't look  marketable.  Biorka Island is a                                                               
sea lion pull out, he said,  so how can the university develop it                                                               
and turn it into money?                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  LOEFFLER  said  that  he  can't  address  Biorka  Island  in                                                               
particular, but, in general, DNR  went through a land-use process                                                               
focusing on parcels identified as  settlement or general use.  He                                                               
added that Biorka  Island was found to be  appropriate for remote                                                               
cabin sites.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:35:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Crawford  said that he  was told that there  was a                                                               
small parcel in Willow, which  is near a large population center,                                                               
and that  is where we should  be putting state land  into private                                                               
hands.  That is where there is a need, he said.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  said that he agrees,  and if DNR had  land there it                                                               
would.   Most of it has  gone to the Alaska  Mental Health Trust,                                                               
to  municipalities, or  previously to  the university.   "So  the                                                               
state doesn't own land near roads in that area," he said.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD said  he thought  there were  still many                                                               
thousands of acres in the Willow area.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER answered that the  capital site has 60,000 acres and                                                               
that a lot of it is unsuitable for settlement.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked  what use the university  can make of                                                               
the rocket launch range in Kodiak.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  deferred to  the university, but  he added  that it                                                               
dovetails  with the  university's  ownership of  the Poker  Flats                                                               
Rocket Range for similar research.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:37:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ELKINS said  he was  confused about  many of  the                                                               
parcels,  in particular  the  land  in Neets  Bay,  which is  the                                                               
watershed  for   the  Southern  Southeast   Regional  Aquaculture                                                               
Association  (SSRAA)  hatchery.    He  noted  that  the  hatchery                                                               
generates about  $28 million  in goods  and services  annually to                                                               
Ketchikan's  economy, and  he thinks  it is  the most  successful                                                               
fish hatchery in the state.   Representative Elkins questions why                                                               
DNR would want to jeopardize the  watershed and that he is "upset                                                               
about it."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  said DNR doesn't  want to jeopardize the  Neets Bay                                                               
hatchery, but  it is a  valid existing  right no matter  who owns                                                               
the land.  He added that  the surrounding area is also important,                                                               
and  his expectation  is  that  the university  would  be a  good                                                               
manager.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:39:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  noted that there  is "certainly  a constituency"                                                               
that is "concerned about precisely that."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS  questions whether the Neets  Bay watershed                                                               
is protected.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER said  that the hatchery's lease  doesn't address the                                                               
watershed, and DNR's plan was  to protect the hatchery watershed,                                                               
and he "doubts [the university] will do different."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:40:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOE BEEDLE,  Vice President for Finance,  Chief Financial Officer                                                               
and  Treasurer  Trustee  for  the   Land  Grant  Endowment  Fund,                                                               
University of Alaska,  said that it is the Land  Grant Trust that                                                               
takes the  receipt from lands  sold by the university  and holds,                                                               
invests, and  provides money to  the university.  He  stated that                                                               
land is a  very important aspect of land  grant universities, and                                                               
the  University of  Alaska has  received the  smallest amount  of                                                               
land of  any land  grant school except  for Delaware  and Hawaii.                                                               
The original intent  of land grant universities, he  said, was to                                                               
encourage engagement with  the community and to  create a funding                                                               
source.   He said the challenge  to DNR of finding  land was "not                                                               
insignificant."   DNR needed  to select  land in  a way  that was                                                               
consistent  with  its area  plans.    Mr.  Beedle said  that  the                                                               
university  was holding  informational  meetings this  week.   He                                                               
stated that  most people  are not  aware of  DNR's area  plans in                                                               
spite of  efforts by the  state.   In the selection  process, DNR                                                               
had to  retain state forest  lands for timber harvesting,  it had                                                               
to retain five years of its own  supply of land sales, and it had                                                               
to protect  important habitat.   Mr. Beedle added that  there are                                                               
already  designated  parcels  for  settlement,  development,  and                                                               
recreation in the area plans.   He said that "recreational lands"                                                               
mean lands  for recreational  cabins or tourism.   He  added that                                                               
the university  does not have specific  plans for the use  of the                                                               
lands in  HB 130,  and it  plans to  work with  professionals and                                                               
local interest groups to ascertain a parcel's best use.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:45:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEEDLE  said  that  the university  has  a  land  management                                                               
process   which  includes   long-term  strategic   plans;  annual                                                               
development  plans  to  identify compatible  and  economic  uses;                                                               
annual sales  plans, which are  on the university's web  site and                                                               
include public  notice; and  oversight by  its board  of regents.                                                               
Mr.  Beedle said  that  the  university has  $130  million in  an                                                               
endowment, which pays out five  percent of a five-year average of                                                               
the fund balance.  He added  that approximately $5 million a year                                                               
goes to the university which is about one percent of its budget.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEEDLE reported  that  it  is only  speculative,  but he  is                                                               
optimistic that the oil and gas  lands will provide funds for the                                                               
university to  the tune  of about  $2-3 million  a year  after 20                                                               
years.  Since 1987, the  university has sold 1,146 properties for                                                               
a total of  15,000 acres, which has brought  in approximately $44                                                               
million at  principle.   The university's  timber sales  bring in                                                               
about  the same  amount of  money.   He said  it is  very serious                                                               
business for  the university, but it  is not a large  part of its                                                               
budget;  however,  "it's   the  discretionary  receipt  authority                                                               
that's  so valuable  for us."     Mr. Beedle  concluded that  the                                                               
university "looks forward to the passage of this legislation."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:50:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked what percentage  is the $130 million to the                                                               
university's total endowments.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEEDLE  responded  that  there is  a  foundation  with  $125                                                               
million in  its fund.   He said there  is another $50  million in                                                               
funds  that  are  not  endowed  that come  from  such  things  as                                                               
donations  for  a building  fund,  grants  for scholarships,  and                                                               
museum donations, which are all held and invested until needed.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:51:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  asked if  it is  fair to  say the  university is                                                               
trying to fulfill  its mission as a true land  grant college, and                                                               
the long-term plan is to build  the endowment up similarly to the                                                               
centuries-old universities across the United States.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEEDLE  responded that other land  grant universities receive                                                               
about  ten to  twenty-five percent  of their  revenue from  land,                                                               
compared to the  University of Alaska's one percent.   Mr. Beedle                                                               
added that Alaska's university is very  small and new at the game                                                               
of endowment.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked what Harvard's endowment base is.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEEDLE  responded that  Harvard has  a $28  billion endowment                                                               
with returns  of 15 percent,  and some  of its managers  are paid                                                               
millions of dollars.  Harvard's  money is invested in hedge funds                                                               
and new private equities.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS said  "I just want to reiterate that  this is the                                                               
big plan...to  try to fulfill  some of the promise  and directive                                                               
that  we've had  from President  Hamilton  which is  to make  the                                                               
University of  Alaska a truly competitive  institution across the                                                               
country and globally by developing  resources like this endowment                                                               
and by  fulfilling the land  grant promise and getting  land into                                                               
the hands of  private individuals and at the  same time enriching                                                               
the  university to  get  us  on the  right  track  over the  next                                                               
decades."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:54:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  asked what  the university wants  with the                                                               
rocket launch in Kodiak.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEEDLE   responded  that  this   parcel  was   suggested  by                                                               
university people many years ago.   The university, he said, does                                                               
not  have an  eminent law  school or  medical school,  but it  is                                                               
known for  its Geophysical  Institute and  its study  of northern                                                               
latitudes.  Mr. Beedle noted  that satellites can be interrogated                                                               
much more often  at Alaska's latitude.  He  said the university's                                                               
investigations  of   global  change  and  the   aurora  give  the                                                               
institute international  prominence.  The institute  also studies                                                               
the  atmosphere, and  it has  huge  contracts with  NASA, and  it                                                               
boasts investments from Japan to  coordinate with the Geophysical                                                               
Institute.    The  university  also owns  Poker  Flat  where  the                                                               
institute built  a rocket range  with the Department  of Defense,                                                               
NASA, and  other agencies, and it  is an area of  excellence that                                                               
the university takes  pride in and wants to expand,  he said.  He                                                               
added that land  around the launch site will "give  us a place at                                                               
the  table" whether  it is  research  or a  future Kennedy  Space                                                               
Center.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:58:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEEDLE  stated that  near Poker  Flat there is  a park  and a                                                               
wild and scenic river, and  the university gets "high marks" with                                                               
how it  interacts with the community.   He said he  thinks Kodiak                                                               
will be pleased to work with the university.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked that  since  the  president of  the                                                               
university  chairs  the  board of  the  rocket  launch  facility,                                                               
doesn't that  give the university  "a place  at the table."   She                                                               
also  asked if  the  university  could lease  the  land and  have                                                               
similar clout.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEEDLE  said the university does  not need to own  land to do                                                               
research,  but  there are  restrictions,  and  he said  that  the                                                               
university will  have a stronger seat  at that table if  it owned                                                               
the land.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:00:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO asked  about  a recent  university sale  of                                                               
real estate in Palmer and if that money went into the endowment.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEEDLE  said there  are restrictions  on federal  grant lands                                                               
that the  university gets,  and it  must go  into the  land grant                                                               
trust.   He said  there have  been other  processes by  which the                                                               
university  has  gained  land.   The  Palmer  Research  Farm  was                                                               
provided to  the university without restriction.   The university                                                               
will  receive $5  million  for  a very  small  piece of  property                                                               
because there  is a  willing buyer and  willing seller,  he said.                                                               
The Land Grant  Trust Fund will also buy  property for investment                                                               
purposes.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:04:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OLSON  asked if anyone  has expressed  interest in                                                               
the gas and oil land.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEEDLE responded  that DNR  sold the  exploration permit  to                                                               
Andex  Corporation,  which  covers  over 400,000  acres.    Doyon                                                               
Regional Corporation  also owns some surface  and subsurface, and                                                               
it has  been doing  exploration.  Mr.  Beedle said  the potential                                                               
looks very promising,  and investors have recently  put in money.                                                               
It shows excitement, but it needs a lot more studies, he said.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:06:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  asked  what  would  happen  if  the  state                                                               
transfers property to university and then wants it back.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEEDLE said  that the  university has  traded land  with the                                                               
state, and it would be looking for fair value.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ELKINS asked why Neets Bay was selected.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:08:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BEEDLE said  that  DNR, not  the  university, selected  that                                                               
parcel,  and  it was  a  surprise.    But,  Mr. Beedle  said,  he                                                               
believes the  university could  work with SSRAA.   That  area has                                                               
been extensively  clear cut, he added,  and it would be  wrong to                                                               
clear cut  it again.   If the university owns  it, it would  do a                                                               
selective helicopter  cut.  He  said he thinks there  are tourism                                                               
opportunities, "I  believe the very  fact that those  fish return                                                               
there  are an  asset  that has  value to  other  people, just  as                                                               
Katmai [National Park] does for  bear viewing and the lodges that                                                               
exist around  the area -  still preserving that  natural habitat.                                                               
Having  said that,  we understand  fully, having  met with  SSRAA                                                               
three different times on Monday  while we were in Ketchikan, what                                                               
their concerns would be.   We're sensitive to their issues."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:10:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  said that much of  the lands in HB  130 will not                                                               
be highly contested;  however, a few parcels  could be "debate[d]                                                               
forever."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEEDLE  stated that land has  as much emotion as  family, and                                                               
"we walk  a delicate  line."   Alaska wants  to send  students to                                                               
school,  he said,  and the  board of  regents urged  him to  tour                                                               
Southeast Alaska as  soon as possible.  "We will  be doing this,"                                                               
he  said,  but  will  probably not  be  addressing  controversial                                                               
property now.  It is about  economic gain for the trust, he said.                                                               
He then noted a thesis done  by a University of Alaska student on                                                               
customer satisfaction  with the university's land  grant process,                                                               
which showed more than 90 percent positive responses.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:14:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked if the  university would take some of                                                               
the sensitive areas off the table to allow this bill go forward.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEEDLE said  that one third of these lands  are for research,                                                               
another third  is speculative, and the  remaining income property                                                               
is "our bread  and butter."  He  added that there is  not an over                                                               
selection, and  there is not  a back  up list, so  the university                                                               
"would be  concerned with a  dilution of  the bill, but  would be                                                               
interested in how it progresses through the process."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:17:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CECIL RANNEY,  Assembly Member,  Kodiak Island  Borough Assembly,                                                               
said he is  concerned with the 2,280 acres  containing the launch                                                               
facility in Kodiak.   This area has been  controversial, he said,                                                               
and it  is an  important recreation  area for  the citizens.   He                                                               
added  that  the community  has  been  supportive of  the  launch                                                               
facility, and it is supportive of  the university.  But this bill                                                               
appeared   rather  suddenly,   he  stated,   with  a   "cloud  of                                                               
suspicion."  He  said everyone needs to take a  really close look                                                               
at the  educational value  of that  land.   The borough  also has                                                               
concerns  with  section  6,  which changes  some  of  the  public                                                               
process, he added.  The main  concern is what would happen if the                                                               
university decided to dispose of  the land.  The borough assembly                                                               
wants more time to consider this, he said.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:21:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  said the  committee is  in no  rush to  pass the                                                               
bill out.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if DNR  was taking care of the access                                                               
problems.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. RANNEY  said that the  whole area  is used by  many residents                                                               
for recreation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:22:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  RAMRAS announced  that  he would  like  "to remind  the                                                               
committee that this  is not a university bill,  the university is                                                               
the  beneficiary,  but this  is  the  governor's  bill.   It  was                                                               
introduced by  the governor, and  this is a  relationship between                                                               
the Department of Natural Resources  and the University of Alaska                                                               
that has done their land  selections [which] was promised to them                                                               
in the  Statehood Act.   So the  governor is  not involved...it's                                                               
something that we've all got to come to terms with it."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:22:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANISA  BERRY, Port  Alexander, Alaska,  said she  really supports                                                               
the  university but  she is  opposed to  the loss  of undeveloped                                                               
state lands  near the Port  Alexander and Conclusion areas.   The                                                               
bill will double  the size of Port Alexander and  it violates the                                                               
town's comprehensive  plans by allowing  changes that are  not in                                                               
accord with the town's desires, she  said.  She noted that recent                                                               
comments  to DNR's  area plan  recommended that  no home  site be                                                               
chosen from that  area.  The town's infrastructure  can't keep up                                                               
with such an expansion; the  water facilities are limited and the                                                               
dock is at capacity in the  summer.  She said she doesn't believe                                                               
these  lands are  a good  investment for  the university  because                                                               
there is  already private  property that has  been on  the market                                                               
for years,  and if  the university sells  lots, it  would further                                                               
depress the  local market.   She added that local  residents hunt                                                               
and recreate  in the HB 130  areas, so the bill  infringes on the                                                               
Alaskan rural lifestyle.   She asked that the  legislature find a                                                               
way  to fund  the university  in the  most realistic  way without                                                               
infringing on locals.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:25:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LANI  BRENNAN, Baranof  Property  Owners,  Anchorage and  Baranof                                                               
Warm Springs, said  that HB 130 represents a short  shrift to the                                                               
public process.   She stated  that the Alaska  State Constitution                                                               
prohibits the disposal  of land "without prior  public notice and                                                               
other  safeguards  of the  public  interest."   She  opined  that                                                               
saving money  is not a  justification for  eliminating meaningful                                                               
public  process  with appropriate  scrutiny.    "The bum's  rush,                                                               
don't-bother-us-with-the-facts   approach  now   sought  by   the                                                               
administration is unbecoming  of Alaska," she said.   Ms. Brennan                                                               
specifically  protests the  transfer  of the  267  acres at  Warm                                                               
Springs Bay.  She said current development is:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     appropriately confined mainly to a townsite which pre-                                                                     
      existed statehood, on which many small developed and                                                                      
      still undeveloped lots exist. The proposed disposal                                                                       
     would  surround a  habitat-sensitive lagoon  and extend                                                                    
     up  to  Baranof  Lake,  a  trail-accessible  recreation                                                                    
     area.  The area to  be disposed is largely wetlands...I                                                                    
     am  sure  you  recognize  that  there  is  no  way  the                                                                    
     legislative    committee    process   can    adequately                                                                    
     scrutinize   each   specific    disposal.   Some   very                                                                    
     knowledgeable  voices...will  not   be  heard  from  in                                                                    
     time...What  is  the  big  rush?    Please  follow  the                                                                    
     constitutional  approach, and  meaningfully include  us                                                                    
     Alaskans in the process for state land disposals.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:30:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JULIE  KAVANAUGH, Kodiak,  said that  she is  a supporter  of the                                                               
university, but she is against  acquisition of the Kodiak parcel.                                                               
She expressed  her concern that  the transfer has  been discussed                                                               
at length,  "but it is the  first that anybody in  Kodiak, that I                                                               
know of,  has heard of  it."  If HB  130 goes through,  she said,                                                               
she would like it to exclude  roads and trails, which are used by                                                               
"all kinds of  users."  Ms. Kavanaugh owns a  stable and uses the                                                               
area for horseback riding.  She  added that it is a controversial                                                               
subject in  Kodiak, and requests  the removal of the  Kodiak area                                                               
from the bill  because of its sensitive nature.   She suggested a                                                               
lease of  the land instead  because she heard the  university say                                                               
it wanted the property for status,  not monetary gain.  She would                                                               
like guaranteed  access to  the area by  not including  roads and                                                               
trails in the transfer.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:33:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  asked the university  for some  clarification on                                                               
their sales process and access issues.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MARY MONTGOMERY,  Director Of University Land  Management Office,                                                               
said the university has different  processes for different lands.                                                               
She  said  if a  property  is  being subdivided,  the  university                                                               
advertises  for 60  days and  sends mail  to all  legislators and                                                               
municipalities.    After  that  process,  the  board  of  regents                                                               
approves the  development then it  determines if the  property is                                                               
"feasible."    She  said  the   university  hires  a  third-party                                                               
consultant to go to the  community closest to the development and                                                               
conduct  an 8-  to 12-hour  workshop to  hear what  the community                                                               
wants.   The university then  goes back and designs  the project,                                                               
trying to consider the community's  concerns.  The university may                                                               
put in  covenants and restrictions  in order to develop  the land                                                               
in a  way that is  compatible with  the community.   Finally, the                                                               
land is  surveyed, platted,  and offered  in a  competitive sale.                                                               
The university  offers its  own financing, she  said.   She added                                                               
that if  a property will  not be  subdivided or developed  by the                                                               
university, it can be sold after a 30-day comment period.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:37:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS asked how the  university would address sensitive                                                               
parcels like  Neets Bay, because  there is so much  concern about                                                               
what the  university is going  to do.   He added that  Mr. Beedle                                                               
and Ms.  Montgomery say the university  is a good steward  of the                                                               
land,  and  "is   going  to  go  about  trying   to  improve  the                                                               
communities.   Can  you  give us  a hypothetical  as  to how  the                                                               
university would approach the Neets Bay area?"                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:38:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MONTGOMERY   responded  that   first  the   university  will                                                               
determine  whether  there  is  a need  to  develop  the  property                                                               
immediately  or at  all.    "It may  not  be  developable for  50                                                               
years," and  many of the parcels  will sit in the  inventory, she                                                               
said.  "We  would work very closely with the  community, with the                                                               
aquaculture group, be very sensitive  to water quality, and there                                                               
are laws  that protect water quality,"  she added.  She  said she                                                               
can't  see an  immediate development  opportunity for  that area,                                                               
and it will  be several years while the  university evaluates its                                                               
inventory.   She  added  that  her office  can  only  do so  many                                                               
subdivisions a year,  and it usually chooses five  or six parcels                                                               
to evaluate each year.  She  said the university "would work with                                                               
the lessee and the community to  determine what's the best use of                                                               
that  property."   She  added that  in  Ketchikan the  university                                                               
holds property that it wants  to develop, but the community wants                                                               
to use  it to recreate,  so the  community is trying  to purchase                                                               
the parcel.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS stated that some  people are concerned that "they                                                               
will  see no  trespassing signs  go up  on university  lands once                                                               
they are  titled over."  He  asked how the lands  will be treated                                                               
while the  university is  determining what it  will do  with each                                                               
parcel.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MONTGOMERY  said the bill  provides for continued  public use                                                               
of  the properties,  and  she  can't think  of  a  time when  the                                                               
university put up a no trespassing  sign.  She spoke of the trail                                                               
systems on the  university's campus, which the  public is allowed                                                               
to use.   "We want  the public to  be comfortable on  our lands,"                                                               
she  said, but  "we still  have to  generate revenue  from them."                                                               
Commercial users of university lands need a permit, she added.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:41:36 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  said  that the  university's  experimental                                                               
farm  is used  by people  to  take walks.   There  are gates  but                                                               
people walk around them, and he  would like to reinforce that the                                                               
university  doesn't  "seem  to  take their  land  away  from  the                                                               
public, so much as simply own it."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  thanked Ms. Montgomery  "for debunking  the myth                                                               
that the university is a terrible landlord."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:42:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MIKE  ROUND,   Assistant  General  Manager,   Southern  Southeast                                                               
Regional Aquaculture Association (SSRAA),  read a letter from the                                                               
general manager of  SSRAA, which is entered into the  record.  He                                                               
expressed  SSRAA's strong  opposition to  transferring Neets  Bay                                                               
land  to   the  university  based  on   the  following  (original                                                               
punctuation provided):                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     1. The  Neets Creek land  parcel is almost  exactly the                                                                    
     small watershed  that is the  sole source of  water for                                                                    
     Neets Bay  Hatchery and the  hatchery site,  which lies                                                                    
     in the lower end of the parcel at saltwater.                                                                               
     2. The Neets  Bay Hatchery site is one of  the few true                                                                    
     production hatchery  sites in  Alaska that  can sustain                                                                    
     both large-scale  production as  well as  cost recovery                                                                    
     in a Special Harvest Area.                                                                                                 
     3. The  single over-riding  goal in  the administration                                                                    
     of  university  land is  to  generate  revenue for  the                                                                    
     university.                                                                                                                
     4.  University land  administrators pursue  two courses                                                                    
     in meeting their  goal: if the land  is appreciating in                                                                    
     value or  provides significant  revenue through  use it                                                                    
     is held;  if the land  is not appreciating in  value or                                                                    
     does  not otherwise  provide funds  through  use it  is                                                                    
     sold to generate revenue.                                                                                                  
     5.   SSRAA  is   a  non-profit   corporation.  Regional                                                                    
     commercial salmon fishermen chose  to tax themselves 3%                                                                    
     of  the ex-vessel  value of  their harvest  to initiate                                                                    
     funding for SSRAA  in the early 1980's  and continue to                                                                    
     do so as collateral for SSRAA's well being.                                                                                
     6. If  SSRAA is  significantly charged  for use  of the                                                                    
     Neets  Bay  Parcel,  SSRAA would  necessarily  have  to                                                                    
     increase  cost  recovery  harvest and  revenue,  taking                                                                    
     fish  that  would  have  otherwise  been  harvested  by                                                                    
     fishermen.  This   is  in  essence  a   tax  on  salmon                                                                    
     fishermen.                                                                                                                 
     7. If SSRAA  is required to buy the land  to retain its                                                                    
     current site,  the organization  will have  to increase                                                                    
     cost  recovery harvest  to  repay  the required  loans.                                                                    
     Again,  this  is   in  essence  a  tax   on  SE  salmon                                                                    
     fishermen.                                                                                                                 
     8.  If  the  watershed  is used  for  another  form  of                                                                    
     resource extraction, the quantity  and quality of water                                                                    
     in  the  small watershed  will  likely  be altered  and                                                                    
     detrimental to hatchery operations.                                                                                        
     9.  Regardless of  whether both  parties  work in  good                                                                    
     faith,   the   current   goals   of   University   Land                                                                    
     administration of the Neets Creek  Parcel and SSRAA are                                                                    
     mutually exclusive.                                                                                                        
     10. The  University could not  reach its  goals without                                                                    
     significantly impacting a  non-profit organization that                                                                    
     would  have to  take more  from its  users to  meet the                                                                    
     increased  costs of  operation. Or  put otherwise,  the                                                                    
     University  would be  taxing fishermen  to support  its                                                                    
     programs.                                                                                                                  
     11. The other alternative is  the SSRAA would leave the                                                                    
     site and either cease to  exist or reduce production to                                                                    
     a fraction of what  the organization now produces. This                                                                    
     would result  in a significant  loss in harvest  for SE                                                                    
     fishermen.                                                                                                                 
     12. Any  long or short-term value  the University would                                                                    
     receive for  this parcel is  very small related  to the                                                                    
     long-term value now produced  for SE Alaska communities                                                                    
     from SSRAA's activity on the site.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:47:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
KENNETH  DUGGETT,  Executive  Director, United  Southeast  Alaska                                                               
Gill  Netters,  said that  the  hatchery  facility at  Neets  Bay                                                               
provides about  50 percent  of the fish  caught in  district one.                                                               
Mr. Duggett said that Mr. Beedle  talked about the bears at Neets                                                               
Bay which  are a byproduct of  the hatchery, but the  function of                                                               
the hatchery is to provide  fish for the common property fishery.                                                               
Water supply is  the reason the hatchery is there,  and the gill-                                                               
netters believe  that the development  of commercial  activity is                                                               
unacceptable  and cannot  be  done  in a  way  that protects  the                                                               
water.    Mr.  Duggett  said  that  to  compromise  the  economic                                                               
integrity of the hatchery for  a short-term sale is fundamentally                                                               
irresponsible and  unacceptable.   He referred to  testimony that                                                               
the university  would study the  site and determine the  best use                                                               
of the property, but Mr. Duggett  said the best use is to provide                                                               
clean water  to the hatchery,  other activities  would compromise                                                               
that.  The  hatchery mission is inconsistent with  the mission of                                                               
the University  of Alaska Trust Fund,  which is to raise  as much                                                               
money as they can.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:50:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
IVAR MALUTIN,  Kodiak Area Native  Association, said he  was born                                                               
and raised  in Kodiak  and wants  to protect  Native rights.   He                                                               
noted several events that have  "choked" Native rights, including                                                               
the influx  of fisherman  moving to  Kodiak, the  earthquake, and                                                               
World War II.   He added that there are  military sites on Kodiak                                                               
that  used to  be traditional  lands, and  have been  "taken away                                                               
from us."   He said the people  of Kodiak are people  of the sea,                                                               
"we live  off the sea,"  he said,  and the native  association is                                                               
very concerned  that the land  transfer will eliminate  access to                                                               
important marine harvest areas.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:53:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE  WALLACE,   Commercial  Fisherman,  Board   Member,  SSRAA,                                                               
reported that he concurred with  Mr. Duggett's comments regarding                                                               
Neets Bay, and the  highest and best use of the  areas is for the                                                               
hatchery.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:54:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  MARTIN  JR,  Tenakee  Tribal  Council  of  Elders,  Tenakee                                                               
Springs, said he is a  tribal descendent from the Tenakee Tlingit                                                               
Nation -  the Tenakee Tribe -  and an ambassador to  Nations.  He                                                               
said that the council vehemently  opposes HB 130, "if it involves                                                               
even one  footstep on tribal lands  - that would be  the whole of                                                               
Tenakee  Inlet."   Mr.  Martin said  the inlet  is  owned by  the                                                               
Tenakee Tribe  and predates "your  state government  and predates                                                               
the birth of  your nation.  Our lands are  not for negotiation or                                                               
trade...our  land  is not  about  cash  and  it is  not  covertly                                                               
disguised as  research land or  educational land, it's  about the                                                               
survival  of our  sovereign tribal  membership.   Our claims  are                                                               
valid and they're existing and are  owned by the Tenakee Tribe in                                                               
perpetuity."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:56:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MARTIN SR.  Tenakee Springs, told the  committee the Tlingit                                                               
name  he was  born  with and  said his  missionary  name is  John                                                               
Martin Sr.  He  said he was born in Tenakee Springs  in 1935.  He                                                               
said that Tenakee  land must be withdrawn  from all consideration                                                               
until the  "recognition process has  been accomplished.   Tenakee                                                               
has valuable land in the area  and they have been treated like an                                                               
orphan  child."   He  said Tenakee  was left  out  of the  Alaska                                                               
Native Claims Settlement Act, "and now  you want to take the last                                                               
link  of  this  heritage."     He  said  the  Tenakee  Tribe  was                                                               
recognized by  President Roosevelt  in 1935.   "My  preference is                                                               
that this  parcel is given back  to the Tenakee Nation  while the                                                               
state is  in a  giving mood."   Mr.  Martin said  he also  made a                                                               
statement to  Senator Lisa Murkowski  "that all land  exchanges -                                                               
land issues  - cease until  they deal  with our precious  land on                                                               
Chichagof Island and  adjacent water sites."  He  added that, "We                                                               
give   special  recognition   that  we   are  not   opposing  the                                                               
university."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
3:00:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON said  that  some maps  are showing  trails                                                               
that haven't  been reserved, such as  in Neets Bay, and  he wants                                                               
to  know  why it  doesn't  show  access.   He  said  he wants  to                                                               
preserve all access.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
3:02:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO pointed out  DNR's fact sheet describing the                                                               
land  chosen  for  transfer, which  reads  (original  punctuation                                                               
provided):                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     does not include  any producing oil and  gas or mineral                                                                    
     properties,  nor  legislatively  designated  Sate  Game                                                                    
     Refuges, Critical  Habitat Areas, Parks, or  Public Use                                                                    
     Areas.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER  responded that the  term "public use  areas" refers                                                               
to lands  that are legislatively  designated as "public  use" and                                                               
that would be the Nelchina Public  Use Area and the Mat-Su Valley                                                               
Moose Range.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  said she  has emails from  constituents to                                                               
become part of the record.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR RAMRAS  encouraged committee members  to talk to  him if                                                               
they wanted  to slow the  process down or alter  it.  He  said he                                                               
wants to make  sure the issue is given "plenty  of sunlight."  He                                                               
said he wants  people to feel that they will  get "a good, clean,                                                               
fair hearing on this."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SEATON   said  that   he  wants   an  explanation                                                               
regarding  section 6,  where  there  appears to  be  quite a  few                                                               
changes in  the repeal and  he would  like an explanation  on why                                                               
the legislature is eliminating current public policy sections.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[HB 130 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 3:04:45                                                                 
PM.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                

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