Legislature(2003 - 2004)

04/11/2003 01:10 PM House RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 11, 2003                                                                                         
                           1:10 p.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                       
Representative Cheryll Heinze                                                                                                   
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
Representative Kelly Wolf                                                                                                       
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
Representative Hugh Fate, Chair                                                                                                 
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
Representative Peggy Wilson                                                                                                     
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
HOUSE BILL NO. 163                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to an  annual wildlife conservation pass and the                                                               
fee for that pass; relating  to nonresident and nonresident alien                                                               
big game tag fees; and providing for an effective date."                                                                        
     - MOVED CSHB 163(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 19                                                                                                   
Relating to the ultra low  sulfur diesel fuel requirements of the                                                               
United   States  Environmental   Protection   Agency  and   their                                                               
application to Alaska.                                                                                                          
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
HOUSE BILL NO. 191                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the  Alaska coastal management program and to                                                               
policies  and   procedures  for   consistency  reviews   and  the                                                               
rendering  of  consistency  determinations  under  that  program;                                                               
relating  to the  functions of  coastal  resource service  areas;                                                               
creating   an   Alaska   Coastal  Program   Evaluation   Council;                                                               
eliminating the Alaska Coastal  Policy Council; annulling certain                                                               
regulations relating  to the  Alaska coastal  management program;                                                               
relating  to  actions  based on  private  nuisance;  relating  to                                                               
zoning  within  a  third  class borough  covered  by  the  Alaska                                                               
coastal management program; and providing for effective dates."                                                                 
     - BILL HEARING POSTPONED                                                                                                   
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
BILL: HB 163                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:NONRES. GAME TAG FEES/WILDLIFE TOUR PASS                                                                            
SPONSOR(S): RLS BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                      
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
03/05/03     0433       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
03/05/03     0433       (H)        RES, FIN                                                                                     
03/05/03     0433       (H)        FN1: (DFG)                                                                                   
03/05/03     0433       (H)        FN2: (DFG)                                                                                   
03/05/03     0434       (H)        GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                
03/14/03                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/14/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/14/03                (H)        MINUTE(RES)                                                                                  
03/17/03                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/17/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/17/03                (H)        MINUTE(RES)                                                                                  
04/04/03                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
04/04/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/09/03                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
04/09/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/11/03                (H)        RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
GORDY WILLIAMS, Legislative Liaison                                                                                             
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During hearing on HB 163, answered                                                                         
questions relating to amendments to Version D.                                                                                  
MICHELLE SYDEMAN, Assistant Director                                                                                            
Division of Wildlife Conservation                                                                                               
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   During hearing on HB  163, informed members                                                               
that the  bill will  require an  additional one-half  position in                                                               
the department.                                                                                                                 
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
TAPE 03-29, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
VICE  CHAIR BEVERLY  MASEK called  the  House Resources  Standing                                                             
Committee meeting to  order at 1:10 p.m.   Representatives Masek,                                                               
Gatto,  Heinze,  Lynn,  Morgan,  Guttenberg,  and  Kerttula  were                                                               
present at  the call  to order.   Representative Wolf  arrived as                                                               
the meeting  was in progress.   Representative Fate  was excused.                                                               
Also in attendance was Representative Wilson.                                                                                   
HB 163-NONRES. GAME TAG FEES/WILDLIFE TOUR PASS                                                                               
[Contains discussion of SB 122, the companion bill]                                                                             
VICE CHAIR MASEK announced that  the only order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 163,  "An Act  relating to an  annual wildlife                                                               
conservation  pass  and  the  fee  for  that  pass;  relating  to                                                               
nonresident  and  nonresident  alien   big  game  tag  fees;  and                                                               
providing for  an effective  date."  [The  bill was  sponsored by                                                               
the House Rules Standing Committee by request of the governor.]                                                                 
Number 0150                                                                                                                     
VICE  CHAIR MASEK  reminded members  that  before the  committee,                                                               
adopted as  a work draft  on 4/4/03,  was Version D,  labeled 23-                                                               
GH1098\D,  Utermohle,   3/18/03.    She  returned   attention  to                                                               
amendments.   [A first Amendment  1 and an  additional Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 1 had been moved, discussed, and withdrawn on 4/9/03.]                                                                
Number 0193                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE MORGAN moved  to adopt [a new]  Amendment 1, which                                                               
read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                                           
     Page 2, following line 14                                                                                                  
       (9)  a wildlife conservation pass will provide new                                                                       
     revenue that may be used to support fish and wildlife                                                                      
      management, including protection, and to support and                                                                      
     promote the tourism industry;                                                                                              
[The  first part  of this  amendment was  identical to  the first                                                               
Amendment  1   discussed  4/9/03;  the  latter   ended  with  the                                                               
additional phrase "for which  wildlife resources attract visitors                                                               
to the state".]                                                                                                                 
Number 0197                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA objected to request an explanation.                                                                     
Number 0265                                                                                                                     
GORDY WILLIAMS, Legislative Liaison,  Office of the Commissioner,                                                               
Alaska  Department of  Fish &  Game (ADF&G),  explained that  new                                                               
Amendment 1 resulted from discussions  with committee members and                                                               
[Chair Fate's] staff regarding the  desire to have further intent                                                               
language and direction in the bill  about where funds may be used                                                               
-  he emphasized  the permissive  "may" -  for fish  and wildlife                                                               
protection or  in support or  promotion of the  tourism industry.                                                               
He noted that it is a finding [in the legislation].                                                                             
Number 0368                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA removed her objection.                                                                                  
Number 0380                                                                                                                     
VICE CHAIR  MASEK asked  if there was  any objection  to adopting                                                               
Amendment 1.  There being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                      
Number 0405                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  MORGAN moved  to  adopt Amendment  2, which  read                                                               
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
     Page 6, lines 12 - 14:                                                                                                   
          Delete all material and insert                                                                                        
          (4) a person who possesses a current year sport                                                                       
     fishing license,  hunting license, or  trapping license                                                                    
     issued  to  the person  by  the  department under  this                                                                    
     Page 6, following line 14:                                                                                               
          Insert a new paragraph (5):                                                                                           
          (5) a person who possesses a valid Alaska                                                                             
     driver's license issued under AS 28.15;                                                                                    
     Page 6, following line 23:                                                                                               
          (d)  The commissioner may issue a duplicate                                                                           
     wildlife  conservation  pass  as a  replacement  for  a                                                                    
     wildlife conservation  pass issued under  this section.                                                                    
     The fee  for a duplicate wildlife  conservation pass is                                                                    
     $5.    The commissioner  shall  not  issue a  duplicate                                                                    
     wildlife conservation  pass unless the  commissioner or                                                                    
     a  delegate is  satisfied  that the  original has  been                                                                    
     lost or destroyed.                                                                                                         
Number 0418                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  objected for purposes of  discussion and                                                               
requested an explanation.                                                                                                       
MR. WILLIAMS referred  to the portion of Amendment  2 relating to                                                               
page 6, lines 12-14.   He said the intent of the  bill is that if                                                               
someone makes a  contribution to fish and  wildlife management in                                                               
Alaska by  buying a hunting,  fishing, or trapping  license, that                                                               
would  serve  as  an  exemption  to  buying  the  wildlife  pass.                                                               
Removing  the word  "valid" and  providing clarification  enables                                                               
someone who bought  a three-day fishing license,  for example, to                                                               
be exempt.                                                                                                                      
Number 0590                                                                                                                     
MR. WILLIAMS addressed  the second portion [referring  to page 6,                                                               
following line  14].  He  indicated the intent that  residents be                                                               
exempt from  the requirement  to have a  pass.   Recognizing that                                                               
people may  not carry  or have  a permanent  state identification                                                               
(ID) or  a voter registration  card, he said  [proposed paragraph                                                               
(5) in Amendment 2] says that if  a person has an Alaska driver's                                                               
license, showing  it can serve as  an exemption to the  pass.  He                                                               
acknowledged  that a  person doesn't  have to  live in  Alaska or                                                               
technically be a  resident in order to obtain  an Alaska driver's                                                               
license, but suggested  that if someone makes  that commitment to                                                               
buy the  license and pay  the fee, [the  administration] believes                                                               
it will be  a lot easier [to have that  as an exemption], because                                                               
the desire is to lessen the  burden on "operators" with regard to                                                               
proof of residency.                                                                                                             
Number 0694                                                                                                                     
MR.  WILLIAMS explained  that the  portion relating  to [page  6,                                                               
following  line  23] refers  to  the  provision for  replacing  a                                                               
wildlife pass for $5.  He  said it is virtually the same language                                                               
that exists for a sport fishing, hunting, or trapping license.                                                                  
Number 0739                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN  asked where  someone would  go to  replace a                                                               
lost pass.                                                                                                                      
MR.  WILLIAMS  replied  that  currently  there  are  about  1,600                                                               
vendors for  ADF&G licenses, and  indicated a person could  go to                                                               
any of those vendors.                                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked about  tracking and whether these 1,600                                                               
vendors are linked  to a centralized computer in  order to verify                                                               
that the person had a license to begin with.                                                                                    
MR. WILLIAMS  reiterated that this  language mirrors  the current                                                               
language for hunting  and fishing.  He said  the department takes                                                               
people at  their word, and if  people are willing to  pay the $5,                                                               
the license will be reissued without a lot of upfront checking.                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN commented that  a regular residential fishing                                                               
license  costs  [$20] and  that  someone  could obtain  the  same                                                               
license for $5 if the person claimed the license was lost.                                                                      
Number 0844                                                                                                                     
MR.  WILLIAMS said  he thinks  that's true,  but highlighted  the                                                               
costs  involved with  requiring  additional  tracking and  having                                                               
computer terminals  at various  places.   He also  suggested that                                                               
enforcement  could occur  after  the season,  for  example, if  a                                                               
violation  were discovered.    "But  I think,  in  the long  run,                                                               
that's a cheaper  way to go ... than requiring  all the check-ins                                                               
and holding people up from pursuing their pursuits," he added.                                                                  
Number 0920                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA withdrew her objection to Amendment 2.                                                                  
Number 0930                                                                                                                     
VICE  CHAIR  MASEK  announced  that  there  being  no  objection,                                                               
Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                                                        
Number 0948                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  offered  [Conceptual  Amendment  3]  to                                                               
change  the effective  date  to  January 1,  2004.    On page  8,                                                               
deleted  would  be line  20  [Section  14]  because it  would  be                                                               
redundant.   And on  line 21,  Section 15,  deleted would  be the                                                               
words "Except  as provided in  sec. 14 of  this Act,".   Thus the                                                               
entire effective date would be changed  to say that the Act takes                                                               
effect January 1, 2004.                                                                                                         
Number 1010                                                                                                                     
VICE CHAIR MASEK asked Mr. Williams to respond.                                                                                 
MR. WILLIAMS  stated that  the governor's  intention is  that the                                                               
bill's  effective  date would  be  July  1,  2003, and  that  the                                                               
department has been working towards that date.                                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA asked  if there  were any  difficulties,                                                               
technical  or otherwise,  involved  with  delaying the  effective                                                               
date.   She acknowledged that  less money would be  obtained, but                                                               
suggested  it may  be easier  to get  this up  and running  if it                                                               
started next year.                                                                                                              
MR. WILLIAMS agreed that certainly  a little more time to educate                                                               
and  notify the  public  about  the pass  would  [be helpful]  to                                                               
getting the program up and running.                                                                                             
Number 1122                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG asked what the  average time is to draw                                                               
up regulations for a bill such as this.                                                                                         
MR. WILLIAMS  responded that  it would take  some time,  and that                                                               
depending   on  when   the  bill   passes,  it's   doubtful  that                                                               
regulations  would be  in place  by July  1 [2003],  although the                                                               
department would work to get them done as soon as possible.                                                                     
Number 1165                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked how many  new positions the department                                                               
will add [if the bill passes] to take care of compliance.                                                                       
MR. WILLIAMS  replied that  there are two  fiscal notes  from the                                                               
department and that  there will be some new  expenses incurred to                                                               
the department.                                                                                                                 
Number 1180                                                                                                                     
MICHELLE  SYDEMAN,  Assistant   Director,  Division  of  Wildlife                                                               
Conservation,  Alaska Department  of  Fish &  Game (ADF&G),  said                                                               
one-half of  a position would  be needed to administer  the extra                                                               
MR. WILLIAMS said he thought there  might be some dialogue on the                                                               
fiscal note.                                                                                                                    
Number 1214                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN  asked how much  revenue would be  lost every                                                               
month if implementation were delayed.                                                                                           
MR.  WILLIAMS opined  that an  effective  date of  July 1  [2003]                                                               
would capture a significant amount  of revenue from the tourists.                                                               
He noted that much of the  cruise ship business and other tourism                                                               
occurs between  July and the  end of the tourist  season, usually                                                               
Number 1310                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked:   Why not take this shot  and go for                                                               
it?   And if the  date remains July 1  [2003], as desired  by the                                                               
governor, wouldn't a delay put this program in harm's way?                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA explained  her reasoning  for Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 3.   The  committee has  heard from  a number  of small                                                               
Alaskan businesses about what the  impact would be on them, since                                                               
they've  presold  their  tours.     She  indicated  delaying  the                                                               
effective date wouldn't have so  much of an effect on businesses,                                                               
including cruise ship companies, that have presold their tours.                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked if the  business owner in Petersburg,                                                               
for example,  could request  an extra $10  [from her  clients] if                                                               
she  hadn't  already specified  that  she  was offering  wildlife                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  suggested this is segueing  into another                                                               
area.  She offered to give her opinion on that later.                                                                           
VICE  CHAIR  MASEK  requested  that  Mr.  Williams  address  this                                                               
further.   Since  the amendment  hadn't been  brought before  the                                                               
committee earlier, she also said this isn't good timing.                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE    KERTTULA    respectfully   disagreed,    saying                                                               
[consideration  of  amendments] is  supposed  to  happen at  this                                                               
MR.  WILLIAMS reiterated  the  administration's  intent that  the                                                               
effective date  be July 1 [2003],  and his belief that  this date                                                               
can be  met [by the  department], going forth with  education and                                                               
trying to  do the best they  can, recognizing that there  will be                                                               
some "bumps in the road" the first year.                                                                                        
Number 1587                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  questioned  whether tour  operators  would                                                               
tell their customers that they  must pay extra [on prepaid tours]                                                               
or else not go on the tour.   He opined that there would be a lot                                                               
of blame put on legislators and  the state as a whole for rushing                                                               
into something without  preparation.  He said he  wasn't in favor                                                               
of a  July 1  [2003] start  either, because it  is too  quick for                                                               
something that seems complicated and  hard to identify - unlike a                                                               
hunting license,  where the resulting  take is identifiable.   He                                                               
said he  would vote "do  not pass" on  the bill itself,  but also                                                               
didn't  like  the effective  date,  whereas  rolling it  back  to                                                               
January 1 [2004] provides plenty of  time.  He asked Mr. Williams                                                               
to comment.                                                                                                                     
MR. WILLIAMS  replied that  with any new  program, there  will be                                                               
some  education and  rough moments  in the  first year,  and that                                                               
hopefully the  department will take  into account that this  is a                                                               
new program  in the first year.   He said this  outreach has been                                                               
calculated  into the  fiscal note  with regard  to "working  with                                                               
groups and getting them set up as vendors."                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE   GATTO  said   there   is  no   real  money   for                                                               
Number 1739                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE   GUTTENBERG   spoke   in  favor   of   Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 3.  He  pointed out that the committee had  heard a lot                                                               
of  testimony  with  regard  to the  effective  date  from  small                                                               
businesses around the  state.  He offered  his understanding that                                                               
for many  people who  didn't like  the bill  at all,  they'd said                                                               
that it  would be  at least palatable  if it  weren't implemented                                                               
this year, since these businesses  will basically "eat" the cost.                                                               
He  highlighted testimony  from a  woman  who charges  $15 for  a                                                               
walking tour, which would double  if she charged her clients [for                                                               
the  wildlife  pass];  otherwise,  she would  eat  the  cost  and                                                               
receive nothing.                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIAMS  reminded members  that this is  an annual  pass and                                                               
won't be  charged at  each tour  level [if  a person  partakes of                                                               
more than  one tour];  thus it  won't be  incumbent on  each tour                                                               
operator to charge another $15 [if the person has paid already].                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE,  noting that  she has participated  in the                                                               
tourism  industry  extensively, remarked  that  it  is a  "fluid"                                                               
industry:     even  after  tour  operators   have  printed  their                                                               
materials, Princess Tours  might decide to raise  its prices, for                                                               
example.  She suggested that people  have to roll with it, opined                                                               
that this won't be that big  of a thing, and highlighted the fact                                                               
that this is  something the governor wants.   She suggested doing                                                               
this to raise revenue in the state.                                                                                             
Number 1928                                                                                                                     
VICE  CHAIR MASEK  spoke against  Conceptual Amendment  3, saying                                                               
that where  there's a will, there's  a way.  She  opined that the                                                               
bill will  help the industry  in Alaska; access can  be improved,                                                               
for example,  so that  more visitors  can come.   She  said other                                                               
states have put in a lot  of funding to help increase the tourism                                                               
industry, and do ask help  from visitors.  She characterized this                                                               
as a "friendly bill in helping  to bring in income to our state."                                                               
She  asked whether  there was  further  discussion on  Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 3.                                                                                                                    
A  roll  call  vote  was taken.    Representatives  Gatto,  Lynn,                                                               
Guttenberg,   and  Kerttula   voted   in   favor  of   Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 3.   Representatives  Masek, Heinze,  Morgan, and  Wolf                                                               
voted against it.  Therefore,  Conceptual Amendment 3 failed by a                                                               
vote of 4-4.                                                                                                                    
Number 2073                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  HEINZE moved to report CSHB 163, Version 23-                                                                    
GH1098\D, Utermohle,  3/18/03, as amended, out  of committee with                                                               
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                   
Number 2081                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG objected.                                                                                             
VICE CHAIR MASEK opined  that Representative Kerttula's amendment                                                               
[to change the  effective date] would be deliberated  in the next                                                               
committee  of referral,  the House  Finance  Committee, since  it                                                               
deals with the fiscal impact.                                                                                                   
Number 2108                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  explained that  her main  concern, other                                                               
than constitutionality and the effective  date, is that this pass                                                               
will have to  be purchased not just specifically  for someone who                                                               
advertises for  wildlife viewing.   She read from  the definition                                                               
on page 7, line 5 [paragraph (1)], which says in part:                                                                          
          (1) "commercial provider for an opportunity to                                                                        
     view  wildlife"  means a  person  that  provides to  an                                                                    
     individual,  for compensation  or  with  the intent  to                                                                    
     receive compensation, touring  or recreational service,                                                                    
     equipment,   or    facilities   in   the    field,   or                                                                    
     transportation to  or in the  field related  to tourism                                                                    
     or recreation;                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  pointed  out   that  in  Alaska  it  is                                                               
difficult to  avoid seeing  wildlife.   If a  person is  within a                                                               
city  but is  within  an  area used  for  wildlife viewing,  that                                                               
person  will have  to  be  charged for  the  pass.   She  further                                                               
suggested that if people were  only charged if the experience was                                                               
billed as "wildlife viewing," nobody would  say it that way.  She                                                               
opined that everybody will end up  being charged when there is an                                                               
opportunity to view  wildlife, even if the person is  going up on                                                               
the tram or  doing any number of activities.   Stating opposition                                                               
to  the legislation,  she said  she  believes that  it is  overly                                                               
broad  and unconstitutional  as drafted,  and that  the effective                                                               
date will put the onus on Alaska.                                                                                               
Number 2248                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  offered his  belief that the  bill has                                                               
some  serious failings,  some fatal,  among them  the concept  of                                                               
"wildlife viewing" [pass],  which he suggested is  just a tourist                                                               
pass.   Even someone coming in  the winter to visit  [a resident]                                                               
is  likely to  see a  moose,  for example.   With  regard to  the                                                               
effective date,  he highlighted  testimony from  small businesses                                                               
as well  as the operator  of the  tram, saying they've  set their                                                               
price structures  and done  their [pre-season  preparation] work.                                                               
He said he  has heard from guides as well,  who sell programs via                                                               
computer or by phone; the next  time there is an interaction with                                                               
that  customer is  when a  floatplane lands.   He  also suggested                                                               
that  doing  the  regulations  [in  time  for  a  July  1,  2003,                                                               
effective date]  is more than the  department can do with  a one-                                                               
half position  because it will  require contacting  1,600 vendors                                                               
in the  state for this entirely  new program.  He  said he thinks                                                               
the  time is  wrong, and  although the  effort is  a start  for a                                                               
fiscal policy in the big picture, this isn't it by itself.                                                                      
Number 2336                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  also spoke against  the bill.   He referred                                                               
to page  7, beginning  on line  7, paragraph  (1), noting  that a                                                               
"commercial provider for an opportunity  to view public wildlife"                                                               
includes  a  person  who provides  outfitting,  guiding,  and  so                                                               
forth.  He  suggested that someone selling insect  repellent at a                                                               
grocery store would be outfitting  a person for wildlife viewing.                                                               
He expressed  concern about interpretation by  any one individual                                                               
as far as what "outfitting" or  a "commercial service" means.  He                                                               
indicated he had further objections as well.                                                                                    
Number 2402                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  thanked  the department  personnel  and                                                               
lauded the attempt to get money  to try to leverage federal funds                                                               
in order to  have proper wildlife protection  and activities, but                                                               
said she didn't think this was the right way to do it.                                                                          
Number 2426                                                                                                                     
VICE CHAIR MASEK  referred to background materials on  HB 163 and                                                               
[SB]  122, the  companion  bill, contained  in members'  packets.                                                               
She read from a portion:                                                                                                        
     The billion-dollar  tourism industry  draws substantial                                                                    
     revenue  each year  from  marketing Alaska's  wildlife.                                                                    
     It's  only fair  that these  visitors and  the industry                                                                    
     that ...  directly benefits from  them help  to sustain                                                                    
     our fish  and wildlife  resources.  Most  visitors will                                                                    
     be happy to know ...  they are making a contribution to                                                                    
     help ... wildlife conservation in Alaska. ...                                                                              
     One of the legislative  priorities of the Alaska Travel                                                                    
     Industry  Association  [ATIA]   is  increased  wildlife                                                                    
     viewing opportunities.   The ATIA  supports cooperative                                                                    
     efforts  to   expand  wildlife   viewing  opportunities                                                                    
     throughout the state.                                                                                                      
VICE CHAIR  MASEK offered her  belief that with this  bill, these                                                               
funds would enable ADF&G to better  respond to this need.  Noting                                                               
that the  bill had been  amended, she indicated the  committee is                                                               
striving to have a fair and  balanced bill.  She also opined that                                                               
the  House Finance  Committee  will address  some  of the  issues                                                               
raised  in the  current committee,  and said  there will  be more                                                               
time on the House floor to debate it as well.                                                                                   
Number 2545                                                                                                                     
A  roll call  vote  was taken.    Representatives Gatto,  Heinze,                                                               
Lynn,  Morgan,  Wolfe,  and  Masek   voted  in  favor  of  moving                                                               
CSHB 163,   Version   D,   as    amended,   out   of   committee.                                                               
Representatives  Guttenberg   and  Kerttula  voted   against  it.                                                               
Therefore, CSHB  163(RES) was reported  from the  House Resources                                                               
Standing Committee by a vote of 6-2.                                                                                            
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 1:50 p.m.                                                                 

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