Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/21/2003 01:03 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                       February 21, 2003                                                                                        
                           1:03 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                       
Representative Cheryll Heinze                                                                                                   
Representative Kelly Wolf                                                                                                       
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Hugh Fate, Co-Chair                                                                                              
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 4                                                                                                   
Urging  the United  States Congress  to pass  legislation to  open                                                              
the  coastal  plain  of  the  Arctic   National  Wildlife  Refuge,                                                              
Alaska, to oil and gas exploration, development, and production.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED SJR 4 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 86                                                                                                               
"An Act relating to permits issued by the state."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - FAILED TO MOVE CSHB 86 (RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 16                                                                                                               
"An  Act   amending  the   standards  applicable  to   determining                                                              
whether,  for purposes  of  the  Alaska Stranded  Gas  Development                                                              
Act, a  proposed new investment  constitutes a qualified  project,                                                              
and  repealing  the  deadline for  applications  relating  to  the                                                              
development of  contracts for  payments in lieu  of taxes  and for                                                              
royalty  adjustments  that  may  be  submitted  for  consideration                                                              
under that Act; and providing for an effective date."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - BILL HEARING CANCELED                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
BILL: SJR 4                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE:ENDORSING ANWR LEASING                                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) WAGONER                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                      Action                                                                                 
01/21/03     0013       (S)         READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                       
                                    REFERRALS                                                                                   
01/21/03     0013       (S)         RES                                                                                         
01/27/03     0064       (S)         COSPONSOR(S): OLSON, STEVENS                                                                
                                    B, HOFFMAN                                                                                  
01/27/03     0064       (S)         COWDERY, GREEN                                                                              
01/29/03     0077       (S)         COSPONSOR(S): FRENCH                                                                        
02/03/03                (S)         RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                
02/03/03                (S)         MINUTE(RES)                                                                                 
02/05/03     0118       (S)         RES RPT 5DP 1DNP 1NR                                                                        
02/05/03     0118       (S)         DP: OGAN, STEVENS B, SEEKINS,                                                               
                                    WAGONER,                                                                                    
02/05/03     0118       (S)         DYSON; DNP: LINCOLN; NR:                                                                    
                                    ELTON                                                                                       
02/05/03     0118       (S)         FN1: ZERO(DNR); FN2 ZERO(REV)                                                               
02/07/03     0134       (S)         RULES TO CALENDAR 2/7/2003                                                                  
02/07/03     0134       (S)         READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                        
02/07/03     0134       (S)         COSPONSOR(S): TAYLOR, OGAN                                                                  
02/07/03     0134       (S)         ADVANCED TO THIRD READING                                                                   
                                    UNAN CONSENT                                                                                
02/07/03     0134       (S)         READ THE THIRD TIME SJR 4                                                                   
02/07/03     0134       (S)         PASSED Y15 N1 E4                                                                            
02/07/03     0134       (S)         ELTON NOTICE OF                                                                             
                                    RECONSIDERATION                                                                             
02/10/03     0150       (S)         RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD                                                                   
                                    READING                                                                                     
02/10/03     0150       (S)         RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 1                                                                   
                                    UNAN CONSENT                                                                                
02/10/03     0150       (S)         AM NO 1 FAILED Y6 N11 E1 A2                                                                 
02/10/03     0151       (S)         AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD                                                                      
                                    READING                                                                                     
02/10/03     0151       (S)         PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y16                                                               
                                    N1 E1 A2                                                                                    
02/10/03     0153       (S)         TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                          
02/10/03     0153       (S)         VERSION: SJR 4                                                                              
02/12/03     0180       (H)         READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                       
                                    REFERRALS                                                                                   
02/12/03     0180       (H)         RES                                                                                         
02/12/03     0203       (H)         CROSS SPONSOR(S): STOLTZE,                                                                  
                                    DAHLSTROM,                                                                                  
02/12/03     0203       (H)         LYNN                                                                                        
02/21/03                (H)         RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 86                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE:INJUNCTIONS AGAINST PERMITTED PROJECTS                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)FATE                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                      Action                                                                                 
02/10/03     0169       (H)         READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                       
                                    REFERRALS                                                                                   
02/10/03     0169       (H)         RES, JUD                                                                                    
02/10/03     0169       (H)         REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                       
02/21/03                (H)         RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
SENATOR THOMAS WAGONER                                                                                                          
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented SJR 4 as sponsor.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JIM POUND, Staff                                                                                                                
to Representative Hugh Fate                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Presented HB 86 on behalf  of Representative                                                              
Fate, sponsor.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-6, SIDE A                                                                                                             
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  MIKE  CHENAULT  called   the  House  Resources  Standing                                                            
Committee  meeting   to  order  at  1:03  p.m.     Representatives                                                              
Chenault, Masek,  Gatto, Wolf, and Guttenberg were  present at the                                                              
call to order.   Representative Heinze arrived as  the meeting was                                                              
in progress.   Co-Chair Chenault announced that  Co-Chair Fate was                                                              
excused.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR CHENAULT turned the gavel over to Vice Chair Masek.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SJR 4-ENDORSING ANWR LEASING                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[Contains   discussion  pertaining   to  HJR   6,  the   companion                                                              
resolution]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  MASEK announced  that  the  first order  of  business                                                              
would be SENATE  JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 4, Urging  the United States                                                              
Congress  to pass legislation  to  open the coastal  plain  of the                                                              
Arctic  National   Wildlife  Refuge,   Alaska,  to  oil   and  gas                                                              
exploration, development, and production.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0134                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THOMAS WAGONER,  Alaska State  Legislature, testified  as                                                              
the sponsor  of SJR  4.   Senator Wagoner  informed the  committee                                                              
that the  intent of  SJR 4 is  to urge the  U.S. Congress  to pass                                                              
legislation  to open  the  coastal plain  of  the Arctic  National                                                              
Wildlife Refuge  (ANWR) to oil  and gas exploration,  development,                                                              
and production.   He  pointed out  that this  resolution has  been                                                              
before the legislature  at least five times.  "This  year it looks                                                              
like everything  is in line and  we have a good chance  of passing                                                              
this item both here  and in the United States  Congress," he said.                                                              
He highlighted  that this year  a majority  of the members  of all                                                              
of the  houses of government involved  support the opening  of the                                                              
coastal  plain of  ANWR to  exploration production.   He  reminded                                                              
members  of  Governor  Murkowski's  State  of  the  State  address                                                              
during which he  reaffirmed his belief that [the  state] should do                                                              
all that  it can  to open  up the  coastal plain  of ANWR.   North                                                              
Slope production  has been  in decline  since 1988, and  therefore                                                              
the development  of the  coastal plain of  ANWR will  help provide                                                              
stability  to national  energy demands  while increasing  Alaska's                                                              
revenue stream.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  explained  that   SJR  4  intends  for  the  new                                                              
technology used  at the  Alpine and Northstar  [Units] to  be used                                                              
on the  coastal plain  of ANWR in  order to enhance  environmental                                                              
protection.   The  current area  [of  the coastal  plain of  ANWR]                                                              
under  consideration  represents  approximately  one-half  of  one                                                              
percent of the  coastal plain, out of the  19-million-acre refuge.                                                              
Of the  19-million-acre refuge, 8  million acres has  already been                                                              
designated  as wilderness.   Senator Wagoner  concluded by  urging                                                              
the committee's support of SJR 4.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0348                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG  asked   if  there  is  any  difference                                                              
between HJR  6 [which had been  heard in both the  House Resources                                                              
Standing Committee  and House  Special Committee  on Oil  and Gas]                                                              
and SJR 4.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER answered  that  the two  resolutions are  exactly                                                              
the same.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  inquired as to what objections  people might                                                              
have with regard to this resolution.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  replied  that   the  main  objections  would  be                                                              
environmental  objections.    There have  also  been  [objections]                                                              
stating  that  there  isn't  enough   oil  [in  ANWR]  to  make  a                                                              
difference.  However,  Senator Wagoner "begged to  differ" because                                                              
every bit  of oil  that can be  produced makes  a difference.   He                                                              
noted that  often there are objections  directed at the  amount of                                                              
acreage involved in the development.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0456                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  noted that he  supports [SJR 4].   He turned                                                              
to the objections  stating that ANWR  is a drop in the  bucket and                                                              
pointed  out that  [the  coastal plain  of  ANWR] is  good for  20                                                              
years  of   continuous  production.     Therefore,  some   of  the                                                              
objections are easy  to address, although there are  still some in                                                              
the U.S. Senate  who object to opening the coastal  plain of ANWR.                                                              
He asked if these  objections are held because  of objections from                                                              
constituents, or whether there are reasonable objections.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  WAGONER  referred  to   the  objections  to  opening  the                                                              
coastal plain  of ANWR  as the  "East Coast  mentality."   He said                                                              
that a  million barrels  of [oil]  a day  or whatever is  produced                                                              
isn't a drop in  the bucket.  One of the best ways  to address the                                                              
"drop in  the bucket"  objection is  to ask  what would  happen to                                                              
the  West  Coast  if  Alaska  closed  its  pipeline.    The  total                                                              
production from ANWR  is unknown until exploration  occurs and the                                                              
size of the field is determined.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF recalled Senator  Wagoner's mention  that the                                                              
coastal plain of  ANWR could produce 1 million barrels  a day.  He                                                              
pointed out  that the U.S. is  purchasing 1 million barrels  a day                                                              
from a man in a  country with which the U.S. is  prepared to go to                                                              
war  now.    "I  wonder  who's   laughing  at  us,"  he  remarked.                                                              
Therefore,   he  questioned   who   could   argue  [against]   the                                                              
development of ANWR.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WAGONER  acknowledged that  there is  a lot of  opposition                                                              
to  the opening  of the  coastal plain  in ANWR,  even in  Alaska.                                                              
Senator  Wagoner pointed  out that  Alaska is  in a fiscal  crisis                                                              
and if not ANWR,  what will the state find to  balance the budget,                                                              
he asked.   Although development in  ANWR will take a  longer time                                                              
coming  on  line, he  reiterated  that  the  state will  need  the                                                              
revenue from the  oil coming from ANWR in the near  future.  "This                                                              
is the best  time to get that,"  he said.  With regard  to the oil                                                              
imported  from the  Middle East,  if  ANWR can  produce 1  million                                                              
barrels  a day,  it will  go a  long way  to help  the balance  of                                                              
payments, he  suggested.   Anything that is  produced is  good for                                                              
Alaska's  economy as  well  as the  United  States'  economy as  a                                                              
whole.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0843                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  MASEK determined  that  there  was  no one  else  who                                                              
wished to testify.   She then expressed  her hope that  some day a                                                              
resolution will  be [approved] by  Congress so that there  will be                                                              
the opportunity  to open ANWR for  development.  Vice  Chair Masek                                                              
closed  public testimony  and  asked if  there  was any  committee                                                              
discussion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR MASEK,  in response to Representative  Gatto, explained                                                              
that a resolution  is sent to the President,  members of Congress,                                                              
and  others in  order  to inform  those  parties  that the  Alaska                                                              
State Legislature supports  the opening of ANWR.   She related her                                                              
belief in  the importance  of sending  this resolution  every time                                                              
it's  possible because  it  illustrates the  [legislature's  near]                                                              
unity on this issue.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0976                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  CHENAULT moved  to report  SJR 4 out  of committee  with                                                              
individual  recommendations and  the accompanying fiscal  note(s).                                                              
He asked for unanimous  consent.  There being no  objection, SJR 4                                                              
was reported from the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB 86-INJUNCTIONS AGAINST PERMITTED PROJECTS                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1022                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR MASEK  announced that the next order  of business would                                                              
be HOUSE BILL  NO. 86, "An Act  relating to permits issued  by the                                                              
state."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1034                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JIM  POUND,  Staff  to  Representative  Hugh  Fate,  Alaska  State                                                              
Legislature,  presented HB  86 on behalf  of Representative  Fate,                                                              
sponsor.   He  apologized for  Representative  Fate's absence  and                                                              
noted  that  he  was  attending   a  "Korean"  gas  conference  in                                                              
Anchorage.  Mr.  Pound said HB 86 is a simple  addition to statute                                                              
that  assures some  closure to  the  existing permitting  process.                                                              
He  informed the  committee  that  a project  must  go through  an                                                              
entire   permitting   process,   which   includes:      submitting                                                              
applications; responding  to questions about the  application from                                                              
the   department;  taking   public  testimony   on  the   project;                                                              
responding  to  concerns  from  public  testimony;  modifying  the                                                              
permit  request  to  address  the concerns  from  public  and  the                                                              
department;  and,  finally,  receiving the  necessary  permits  to                                                              
begin.  In  theory, he said,  once the [project] has  reached that                                                              
step,  the work  process  should begin:    advertising for  needed                                                              
services;   completing   the   necessary   internal   assessments;                                                              
determining how many  people to employ and what  equipment will be                                                              
needed;  actually going  to  work; and  paying  the employee's  or                                                              
contractors until the project is complete.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND  said  in  reality  that if  "someone  or  a  group  of                                                              
someones  decide  that  they  didn't get  their  way  through  the                                                              
public  process, instead  of accepting  the  existing process  and                                                              
the ruling,  they cry to the  administrative or  judiciary process                                                              
that  it's  not  fair."    He  said   this  often  results  in  an                                                              
injunction against  the project until  a legal definition  of "not                                                              
fair"  can  be  determined,  "with  an  overloaded  judiciary  and                                                              
quasi-judicial  system; this  sometimes takes  years."  Mr.  Pound                                                              
stated  that passage  of HB  86 "does  not define  'not fair';  it                                                              
does  specify what  is required  to  stop a  project, simply,  new                                                              
scientific  information  or  newly  recognized  local  traditional                                                              
knowledge."   He  concluded  that this  addition  to the  existing                                                              
statute will be a major step in getting Alaska moving.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1180                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG  said he  received  a  letter from  the                                                              
Johnsons at  Cleary Summit Bed  and Breakfast expressing  concerns                                                              
that  [HB 86]  would  take them  out of  any  process because  the                                                              
permitting   process  with   the  contractor,   through  the   RSA                                                              
[reimbursable  services  agreement],  would  be  complete  and  in                                                              
place,  and leave them  without  an avenue to  address the  issue.                                                              
Is that the intent, he asked.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND said  no,  the intent  is that  there  is a  relatively                                                              
well-established   open   permitting   process,   which   normally                                                              
includes public  testimony on any  type of project.   He suggested                                                              
that  the typical  involvement  time would  be  during the  public                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  suggested that [HB 86]  would eliminate                                                              
the  commissioner's [authority]  to  overrule  "personnel" in  the                                                              
case  that the  commissioner  decides against  a  permit that  has                                                              
already been issued.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND  referred  to  AS. 46.14.280  and  suggested  that  the                                                              
commissioner would  have the ability to  revoke a permit  if it is                                                              
given  in  error, and  once  the  permit  is revoked,  there's  no                                                              
ability  for the individual  or  the project  to continue  if it's                                                              
being built under a permit.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1396                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  said the section addressed  issues that                                                              
the permittee  had.  He asked  what would happen if  the permittee                                                              
had  given all  of  the correct  information  and  the permit  was                                                              
denied  or accepted  with some bad  or good  information,  but the                                                              
wrong decision was  made.  He remarked, "I'm trying  to figure out                                                              
if that actually  did take the  commissioner out of the  loop, but                                                              
I'm not sure I heard the answer in your [response]."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND  offered  his  belief   that  the  department  and  the                                                              
commissioner   are  essentially   one   and  the   same  in   most                                                              
definitions  of statute.   He said  the commissioner,  ultimately,                                                              
would  have   authority  over   anyone  within   of  his   or  her                                                              
[divisions] as  to whether  a permit would  be issued or  could be                                                              
revoked.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1456                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  began discussion  of  what  would become  a                                                              
conceptual  amendment.   He  offered  support  for the  bill,  but                                                              
expressed  concerns  about  the  word  "new"  in line  7  and  the                                                              
determination of  the definition of "new".   He asked if  the word                                                              
[in  this context]  means information  that is  pertinent but  not                                                              
previously considered.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND said  he would consider that an accurate  definition and                                                              
that the issue was  to assure that if a project  of a fairly major                                                              
scale ended  up running across  an archeological site  of whatever                                                              
capacity,  that   would  be  considered  new,   traditional  local                                                              
knowledge; that was why it was worded that way.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO said he  wants to  add the word  "pertinent"                                                              
because there  are lots of  things one  could run into  that might                                                              
be new  and therefore subject to  a challenge, but  not pertinent.                                                              
He  remarked, "A  new  stream,  which is  four  inches  wide or  a                                                              
couple  of bones  from  something,  or who  knows."    He said  he                                                              
wanted to make  clearer language because he believes  he knows the                                                              
sponsor's  intent and agrees  with it,  but he  hadn't seen  it in                                                              
time to  discuss it with  the [sponsor].   He said he  would offer                                                              
an amendment.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND said he  didn't think there would be a  problem with [an                                                              
amendment].                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG  referred to  the  definition of  "new"                                                              
and  asked, if  a water  use permit  upriver impacts  the well  of                                                              
somebody downstream  and it goes  dry, whether that  is considered                                                              
new.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND said  he would  assume  that would  be  new because  it                                                              
wasn't  something   that  was  addressed  during   the  permitting                                                              
process.   He  offered his  belief that  it would  fall under  the                                                              
ability to  revoke administratively  without having to  go through                                                              
the judicial process.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  remarked, "Maybe I'll extend  that when                                                              
Representative Gatto puts in his amendment."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1634                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HEINZE  noted  her   support  for  the  bill,  but                                                              
expressed concerns  about the clarity  [of the language]  and it's                                                              
being open to  interpretation.  She suggested writing  the bill so                                                              
that it's very clear.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1681                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  moved to adopt a [conceptual]  amendment, as                                                              
follows:                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 7, after "challenge is based on"                                                                              
     Delete "new"                                                                                                               
      Insert "information pertinent to but not previously                                                                       
     considered"                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
[There was  discussion about  the impact of  the amendment  on the                                                              
sentence structure  because the word "information"  already exists                                                              
in the sentence.]                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  suggested amending  the language  to "challenges  based                                                              
on pertinent  new scientific information  or new  recognized local                                                              
...."                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  indicated  he  was  amending  the  inserted                                                              
language to read:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 7, after "challenge is based on"                                                                              
        Insert "pertinent but not previously considered                                                                         
     scientific information or newly recognized local ...."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1766                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  MASEK asked if there  was any objection.   There being                                                              
no objection, the [conceptual] amendment was adopted.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG  asked if  there  was  anybody from  an                                                              
agency  to  speak  on  some  of  the  scientific  aspects  of  the                                                              
permitting.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR MASEK  indicated that  there wasn't  anybody from  the                                                              
Alaska Department  of Fish and Game  or the Department  of Natural                                                              
Resources [waiting to testify].                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GUTTENBERG  said  there   were  some   issues  he                                                              
wouldn't mind  addressing concerning habitat  or oil and  gas that                                                              
he would like [the departments to answer].                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. POUND  said he didn't have  anything of specific  concern with                                                              
the  bill, but  explained that  the  [Department of  Environmental                                                              
Conservation  (DEC)] was a  little concerned  at first  and wanted                                                              
to know  why it  was attached to  its statute.   He indicated  the                                                              
answer is  that is where [the  bill drafters from  the Legislative                                                              
Affairs Agency]  had determined was the  best place to  put it; it                                                              
is  one  of  the  key  departments  dealing  with  the  permitting                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG  said  there  were  questions  that  he                                                              
would  like  to  ask  agency  people  who  are  involved  in  [the                                                              
permitting  process]   about  how  this  actually   functions  and                                                              
examples of where  it would work.  He remarked,  "Sometimes, maybe                                                              
there's a bad decision  made to deny a permit, and  things need to                                                              
be done to make sure that gets reversed."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
VICE  CHAIR  MASEK offered  her  belief  that  all of  the  [legal                                                              
issues]  would be  addressed in  the next  committee of  referral,                                                              
the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG pointed  out that he  was not  a member                                                              
of that committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1940                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  CHENAULT  moved to  report  HB 86  [as  amended] out  of                                                              
committee  with individual  recommendations  and the  accompanying                                                              
fiscal notes.  He asked for unanimous consent.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1951                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG objected.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1998                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote  was taken.  Representatives  Masek, Wolf, Gatto,                                                              
and Chenault voted  in favor of reporting HB 86,  as amended, from                                                              
committee.      Representative   Guttenberg  voted   against   it.                                                              
Therefore  [because  a  majority   of  the  nine-member  committee                                                              
didn't  vote to report  the bill  from committee],  CSHB 86  (RES)                                                              
failed  to   be  reported  from   the  House  Resources   Standing                                                              
Committee by a vote of 4-1.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2000                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[Although it was  announced that [CSHB 86 (RES)]  was reported out                                                              
of committee, it actually failed to be reported from committee.]                                                                
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR MASEK  told Representative Guttenberg  that the sponsor                                                              
probably wouldn't  mind providing  him with information  [relating                                                              
to his concerns].                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2021                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POUND  told  Representative  Guttenberg  that  [the  sponsor]                                                              
would be glad to work with him.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  said he  didn't know what  questions he                                                              
wanted to  ask, and offered his  belief that having  agency people                                                              
[present] to  ask questions  to clarify a  bill or statute,  to be                                                              
comfortable with all  aspects of before it moves  on, is something                                                              
to be  done in committee  and not  to be passed  on or  debated or                                                              
asked on  the floor.   He explained that  he doesn't mean  to slow                                                              
the bill  down, but he needs  to be comfortable with  what happens                                                              
in understanding  the flow,  to be  sure that  all the  issues are                                                              
addressed before it moves on.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
VICE CHAIR  MASEK said the bill  had been posted and  suggested if                                                              
the  department   had  trouble  with  the  bill,   it  would  have                                                              
[contacted]  the  bill  sponsor.   She  said  she  understood  his                                                              
concerns and expressed hope that those issues would be resolved                                                                 
before the bill gets to the House floor.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
[CSHB 86 (RES) failed to move from committee and thus remains in                                                                
the possession of the House Resources Standing Committee.]                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 1:33 p.m.                                                                 

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