Legislature(2003 - 2004)

02/05/2003 01:00 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        February 5, 2003                                                                                        
                           1:00 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair                                                                                          
Representative Hugh Fate, Co-Chair                                                                                              
Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Carl Gatto                                                                                                       
Representative Cheryll Heinze                                                                                                   
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Representative Kelly Wolf                                                                                                       
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6                                                                                                    
Urging the United States Congress to pass legislation to open                                                                   
the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge,                                                                       
Alaska, to oil and gas exploration, development, and production.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HJR 6 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Board of Game                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Pete Buist - Fairbanks                                                                                                     
     Sharon McLeod-Everette - Fairbanks                                                                                         
     Ronald J. Somerville - Juneau                                                                                              
     Ted H. Spraker - Soldotna                                                                                                  
     Clifford P. Judkins - Wasilla                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     - CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Michael Fleagle - McGrath                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HJR 6                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE:ENDORSING ANWR LEASING                                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): OIL & GAS                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                      Action                                                                                 
01/24/03     0059       (H)         READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                       
                                    REFERRALS                                                                                   
01/24/03     0059       (H)         O&G, RES                                                                                    
01/30/03                (H)         O&G AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                  
01/30/03                (H)         Moved Out of Committee                                                                      
01/31/03     0100       (H)         O&G RPT 6DP 1DNP                                                                            
01/31/03     0100       (H)         DP: FATE, CRAWFORD, CHENAULT                                                                
01/31/03     0100       (H)         MCGUIRE, ROKEBERG, KOHRING                                                                  
01/31/03     0100       (H)         DNP: KERTTULA                                                                               
01/31/03     0101       (H)         FN1: ZERO(DNR)                                                                              
01/31/03     0101       (H)         FN2: ZERO(REV)                                                                              
01/31/03     0101       (H)         REFERRED TO RESOURCES                                                                       
02/05/03                (H)         RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING                                                                                                      
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on behalf of the House Special                                                                   
Committee on Oil and Gas, the sponsor of HJR 6.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
PETE BUIST, Appointee                                                                                                           
to the Board of Game                                                                                                            
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as an appointee to the Board of                                                                  
Game; provided background information and answered questions.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SHARON McLEOD-EVERETTE, Appointee                                                                                               
to the Board of Game                                                                                                            
Fairbanks, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as an appointee to the Board of                                                                  
Game; provided background information and answered questions.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
RONALD J. SOMERVILLE, Appointee                                                                                                 
to the Board of Game                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as an appointee to the Board of                                                                  
Game; provided background information and answered questions.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
TED SPRAKER, Appointee                                                                                                          
to the Board of Game                                                                                                            
Soldotna, Alaska                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  as an appointee  to the  Board of                                                              
Game; provided background information and answered questions.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CLIFFORD P. JUDKINS, Appointee                                                                                                  
to the Board of Game                                                                                                            
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  as an appointee  to the  Board of                                                              
Game; provided background information and answered questions.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO                                                                                                                        
Wasilla, Alaska                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified in favor of the  appointees to the                                                              
Board of Game.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-2, SIDE A                                                                                                             
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  MIKE  CHENAULT  called   the  House  Resources  Standing                                                            
Committee  meeting   to  order  at  1:00  p.m.     Representatives                                                              
Chenault, Fate,  Wolf, Gatto, Heinze, Lynn, Guttenberg,  and Masek                                                              
were  present  at the  call  to  order.   Representative  Kerttula                                                              
arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HJR  6-ENDORSING ANWR LEASING                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  CHENAULT  announced that  the  first order  of  business                                                              
would be  HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION  NO. 6, Urging the  United States                                                              
Congress  to pass legislation  to  open the coastal  plain  of the                                                              
Arctic  National   Wildlife  Refuge,   Alaska,  to  oil   and  gas                                                              
exploration, development, and production.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0140                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  VIC KOHRING, Alaska  State Legislature,  testified                                                              
on  behalf of  the House  Special Committee  on Oil  and Gas,  the                                                              
sponsor of HJR 6.  He said:                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     It's   ...  a   resolution  from   the  [House   Special                                                                   
     Committee]  on Oil and  Gas.  We  chose to go  with that                                                                   
     route as opposed  to an individual member,  because it's                                                                   
     an  all-inclusive  effort;  ... it's  a  very  important                                                                   
     piece of  legislation.  It's  a resolution;  it wouldn't                                                                   
     have ...  anything to put into  effect as far as  a law,                                                                   
     but  it's  making  a very  important  statement  to  the                                                                   
     United  States Congress,  as  well as  the President  of                                                                   
     the United  States, and  other important officials  that                                                                   
     you  see listed  on page  2.   This is  a very  familiar                                                                   
     piece of  legislation that we've  had in the  past; it's                                                                   
     the same  bill as last  year that reiterates  our stance                                                                   
     on the issue  of whether we should go into  ANWR [Arctic                                                                   
     National  Wildlife  Refuge]  and  open  up  the  coastal                                                                   
     plains  for  exploration,   and  hopefully,  eventually,                                                                   
     development  -  if we  can  find  the reserves  that  we                                                                   
     expect to be there.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     If  you  go  through the  resolution,  you'll  see  real                                                                   
     important  points  in  here.   It's  a  1.5-million-acre                                                                   
     area  that constitutes  the  coastal plain,  which is  a                                                                   
     very  small area  in all  of  ANWR; it's  just the  very                                                                   
     northern  tip   on  one  side,   so  if  there   is  any                                                                   
     development  in  there,  it's  going to  affect  a  very                                                                   
     minimal  area.  The  expected footprint,  ... as  far as                                                                   
     what  would be  left behind  if we were  to develop  the                                                                   
     area, would  be less than one-half  of 1 percent  of the                                                                   
     coastal  plain itself  - only about,  we predict,  2,000                                                                   
     to 7,000  acres of land involved.   We are  hopeful that                                                                   
     we can  pass this [out  of the House Resources  Standing                                                                   
     Committee]  and move  it to  the House  floor, and  this                                                                   
     will  be our  way of  sending  a message  to the  United                                                                   
     States  Congress.  As  a member  of the Energy  Council,                                                                   
     ... we  are going  to advocate  strongly for ANWR  again                                                                   
     this year; we  are going to travel to  [Washington] D.C.                                                                   
     for  the  Energy  Council,  and this  will  be  ...  our                                                                   
     primary  issue  in advocating  for  the opening  of  the                                                                   
     coastal  plain,  and  hopefully  we  will  realize  some                                                                   
     major developments  that can very positively  contribute                                                                   
     to our  economy, and help  lessen dependence  on foreign                                                                   
     oil.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING referred to the bill packet and said it                                                                  
contained additional information including the substantial                                                                      
number of jobs that [opening ANWR] would create.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0373                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked how anybody who's concerned about the                                                                 
future of Alaska, economic development, and energy independence                                                                 
for the  United States  of America  could possibly  be opposed  to                                                              
opening ANWR.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING  said the  question was perplexing  to him,                                                              
too, and he couldn't  imagine anybody being opposed  to it, but he                                                              
did mention  there  had been concerns  from people  living  in the                                                              
region  about   the  effect  on   the  environment   and  wildlife                                                              
populations,  mainly,  the  Porcupine  caribou  herd.    He  said,                                                              
"We're sensitive  to the  environment; there's  reference  to that                                                              
in here, that  we want to develop  the area in a  very responsible                                                              
way and not ...  affect the migrations or the  calving grounds ...                                                              
of the herd."   Another point, he  said, would be to  look at [the                                                              
results]  in Prudhoe  Bay:   the caribou  population is  healthier                                                              
than  it was  before  the [area]  was developed.    Representative                                                              
Kohring remarked,  "I've  seen pictures of  caribou rubbing  their                                                              
backs on the pipeline,  and it doesn't seem to  affect the calving                                                              
either, so,  I'm ... hopeful  that we're  going to see  little, if                                                              
no, impact  on the  environment there, and  the concerns  of those                                                              
in that area, along those lines, will be mitigated."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN expressed support for HJR 6.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0493                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK  remarked, "We've  seen this before  us every                                                              
year  now,  I  think  this  is  the  ninth  time  I've  seen  this                                                              
resolution."   She  recalled questions  from the  press about  the                                                              
effort  the  [legislature]  has  put into  [funding  the  lobbying                                                              
efforts  of]  Arctic   Power  and  [towards  opening]   ANWR,  and                                                              
remarked,  "As history says,  you have  to take  it step  by step,                                                              
and  have  patience,  and  I think  overall  from  when  we  first                                                              
started here ...  we've made quite big steps."   She continued, "I                                                              
think  we're highlighting  more on  getting [ANWR]  open; I  think                                                              
this resolution  is really  important, and it  plays a  pretty big                                                              
role in our state as far as ... how we support ANWR."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MASEK  made  a   reference  about  President  Bush                                                              
educating  the  new members  of  Congress,  and said  she  thought                                                              
[Alaska]  needed to  have this  type  of resolution.   She  talked                                                              
about questioning  by the public and  the media of the  efforts of                                                              
the  [legislature  to  open  ANWR]  and  brought  attention  to  a                                                              
newspaper article  about crises occurring  around the world.   She                                                              
said, "In Russia,  ... they're one of our biggest  ... competitors                                                              
as  far as  opening any  oil  development, and  I  know in  Russia                                                              
they're ... facing  serious trouble as to how ...  they export the                                                              
oil because of the  lack of a pipeline, and they're  going to have                                                              
[to]  build new  [facilities]  to get  the  oil out."   She  spoke                                                              
about the Venezuelan  government's undergoing [large]  changes and                                                              
remarked,  "They're the  next country  that  we're competing  with                                                              
[for] ... oil  development.  So, I  think the more that  we can do                                                              
today to  secure and  show the oil  companies that  ... we  have a                                                              
very good economy  here -- and it's  very safe; it's not  like the                                                              
other  countries."   She said  deliberations  over the  resolution                                                              
help with the process.  She expressed her support.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0703                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GATTO   spoke  about   the   Persian  Gulf   war,                                                              
particularly,  the  destruction of  Kuwait's  oil  wells upon  the                                                              
retreat  of  the Iraqi  army.    Referring  to Iraq's  leader,  he                                                              
remarked,  "He, ...  essentially,  took the  chance  to plunge  us                                                              
into  a nuclear  winter;  it wouldn't  be  nuclear,  but the  idea                                                              
being  that he took  a risk  of essentially  destroying the  whole                                                              
...  planet as  we know  it. "   If  a similar  situation were  to                                                              
occur,  he said,  all of that  oil in  the Middle  East that  [the                                                              
United States] imports  so much of would become  unavailable for a                                                              
very long period  of time.  Representative Gatto  spoke about [the                                                              
United  States'] need  to  have  access to  its  own secure  [oil]                                                              
supplies, and said  due to national security, [the  United States]                                                              
needed  to  have   a  dependable  resource  within   the  country.                                                              
Representative  Gatto,   referring  to  Representative   Kohring's                                                              
aforementioned  trip  to  Washington   D.C.,  remarked,  "The  one                                                              
message I  want to  get back to  Washington D.C.,   is,  there are                                                              
crazy people in  the world, and they do crazy things;  ... if they                                                              
were to cut off  our ... supply, ... we need it,  we depend on it,                                                              
and we  can't get  by without it;  ... if they  take it  away from                                                              
us, I don't  know ... what will  happen, but I do know  we will be                                                              
in severe  trouble."  He  suggested the  oil supply in  the Middle                                                              
East could easily be taken away from the [United States].                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOHRING,  in  response  to  Representative  Gatto,                                                              
said  he  would  take  that message  with  him  while  he  travels                                                              
throughout Washington,  D.C., and meets with  various congressmen.                                                              
He thanked Representative  Masek for her leadership  on this issue                                                              
and remarked, "I  know you've had this resolution  yourself in the                                                              
past, and we  did pass the same resolution with  the Twenty-Second                                                              
Alaska Legislature ...."                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0905                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG said  dialogue from  either the  courts                                                              
or  Congress  said that  Alaska  wouldn't  get [royalties  at  the                                                              
ratio of]  90:10 [in  relation to the  federal government]  out of                                                              
ANWR coastal  plain development, and would  go back to  50:50.  He                                                              
asked Representative  Kohring to expand on whether  there had been                                                              
any more dialog on the subject.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING  replied that he  was not aware of  any new                                                              
dialog,  but  he  would  research   the  issue  and  present  that                                                              
information at  a subsequent  meeting.  Noting  that the  bill did                                                              
address that  particular issue, he  referred to page 3,  lines 15-                                                              
19, which read:                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     FURTHER  RESOLVED  that  the  Alaska  State  Legislature                                                                 
     opposes  any  unilateral reduction  in  royalty  revenue                                                                   
     from exploration  and development  of the coastal  plain                                                                   
     of  the Arctic  National  Wildlife Refuge,  Alaska,  and                                                                   
     any  attempt   to  coerce  the  State  of   Alaska  into                                                                   
     accepting  less than  the 90  percent of  the oil,  gas,                                                                   
     and mineral  royalties from  the federal land  in Alaska                                                                   
     that was promised to the state at statehood.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOHRING indicated  he might  present a  resolution                                                              
to  the  House  Special Committee  on  Oil  and  Gas  specifically                                                              
addressing that issue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1089                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK  moved to report HJR 6 out  of committee with                                                              
individual  recommendations  and   the  accompanying  zero  fiscal                                                              
notes; she asked for unanimous consent.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1104                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG objected  for the  purpose of  offering                                                              
an amendment to HJR 6.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
[Although Co-Chair  Chenault called a brief at-ease,  a motion was                                                              
made immediately afterward, and thus the recording continued.]                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1133                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK  withdrew her motion  to report HJR 6  out of                                                              
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1148                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG  referred to page 1, lines  13-15, which                                                              
read:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     WHEREAS  the "1002 study  area" is  part of the  coastal                                                                   
     plain  located  within  the  North  Slope  Borough,  and                                                                   
     residents   of  the   North  Slope   Borough,  who   are                                                                   
     predominantly   Inupiat   Eskimo,  are   supportive   of                                                                   
     development in the "1002 study area"; and                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG talked  about  the Gwich'in  [people's]                                                              
[dependence]   on  the   [Porcupine]  caribou   herd,  and   their                                                              
opposition  to opening  ANWR.   He suggested  the Gwich'in  people                                                              
have a  completely different position  [on ANWR] than  the Inupiat                                                              
[people],  and  said  the  interest   was  in  not  bringing  that                                                              
conflict  into   this  resolution.     Representative   Guttenberg                                                              
offered an amendment  to strike [lines 13-15]; he  said he thought                                                              
it would strengthen the [resolution].                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1205                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MASEK objected  to the  amendment.   She told  the                                                              
committee  that the  area being  discussed is  in the North  Slope                                                              
Borough (NSB);  she said she thought  it was important  for [lines                                                              
13-15] to  remain in  the resolution because  they are  in support                                                              
of it.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1230                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE    KOHRING,   in    response   to    Representative                                                              
Guttenberg's  suggested amendment,  said  it would  be helpful  to                                                              
demonstrate  support in the  affected regions.   Referring  to the                                                              
Gwich'in  [people],  he said  there  are  people who  have  voiced                                                              
their opposition  to the resolution.  He suggested,  however, that                                                              
the majority  of residents in  the area, mostly  Inupiat [people],                                                              
are  in  support  of  the  legislation.    Representative  Kohring                                                              
remarked, "I  think that  would enhance and  not detract  from the                                                              
strength of this resolution."                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1282                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK  reminded the committee  that HJR 6  would be                                                              
going  to Congress  and the  President.   She  offered her  belief                                                              
that it  would delineate  the process to  remove lines  13-15, and                                                              
that  it  was  important  for  the   language  to  remain  in  the                                                              
resolution.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1324                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO, discussing  the  importance  of making  the                                                              
bill accurate,  referred to line  14 and suggested  [amending] the                                                              
sentence to  say, "and  the Inupiat residents  of the  North Slope                                                              
Borough  are  supportive."    He  said the  outcome  would  be  an                                                              
accurate statement  because it doesn't  refer to  other residents,                                                              
only to the ones who are supportive.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1376                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING,  responding to Representative  Gatto, said                                                              
[the  proposed amendment]  was  a  reasonable suggestion  that  he                                                              
would not object to.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HEINZE  stated her  belief  that  the language  is                                                              
fine, clear,  and succinct,  and said she  didn't think  it should                                                              
be changed.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG  referred to  the  Gwich'in people  and                                                              
said they don't  have oil on their  land, don't live in  the North                                                              
Slope Borough, and  don't have the resources to walk  the halls of                                                              
Congress.   He remarked, "But those  guys are back  there pounding                                                              
the halls of Congress  on the [development of ANWR],  and my point                                                              
was not  to have something  that they can  refute talk  about that                                                              
their resources are  on the land, ... the caribou  that are in the                                                              
calving   grounds  or   what   they  harvest."      Representative                                                              
Guttenberg  reiterated  his belief  that  removal  of the  section                                                              
would  be  beneficial  to  deter  any  future  opposition  to  the                                                              
reference.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FATE suggested  that at one time the  Gwich'in people had                                                              
mounted an  exploratory effort  to find  and develop  hydrocarbons                                                              
on their land.   He said he  was sympathetic to the  lifestyle and                                                              
wishes  of the  Gwich'in [people],  but  that there  was a  larger                                                              
issue at  stake, which  is the  economy and  the State  of Alaska,                                                              
and  proceeding  with something  that  the  state and  the  nation                                                              
desperately  need.     Representative  Fate  concurred   with  the                                                              
language as it exists in HJR 6.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1529                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK  pointed out  that the Gwich'in  [people] had                                                              
traveled  to Washington,  D.C.,  to  lobby on  this  issue in  the                                                              
past.   She referred  to Sara  James (ph),  who she  said was  the                                                              
forerunner on  this issue; had received  a lot of press  and media                                                              
attention; and  had made a big  presence in Washington,  D.C.  She                                                              
offered her  belief that the reason  for ANWR not opening  was due                                                              
to the lobbying  of the Gwich'in [people], and  remarked, "I think                                                              
we all  know that  they're on  the opposite  side of this  issue."                                                              
Representative  Masek said  the Gwich'in  people have  a right  to                                                              
speak  out and say  what they  want, and  that they  have done  so                                                              
very eloquently.   She  commented, "We as  a legislative  body ...                                                              
do  have to  look  at the  bigger  picture ...."    She noted  her                                                              
desire for the language to remain the same.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1632                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG withdrew his amendment.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1644                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK  moved to report HJR 6 out  of committee with                                                              
individual  recommendations  and   the  accompanying  zero  fiscal                                                              
notes;  she  asked   for  unanimous  consent.     There  being  no                                                              
objection, HJR  6 was reported  from the House Resources  Standing                                                              
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CONFIRMATION HEARINGS                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Board of Game                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1690                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  CHENAULT  announced  that  the next  order  of  business                                                              
would be  the confirmation  hearings on  the appointment  of [Pete                                                              
Buist,  Sharon  McLeod-Everette,  Ronald  J.  Somerville,  Ted  H.                                                              
Spraker,  and Clifford P.  Judkins] to  the Board  of Game.   [The                                                              
confirmation  hearing on  the appointment  of Michael Fleagle  was                                                              
deferred until February 12.]                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1792                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PETE  BUIST, Appointee  to the  Board of  Game, testified,  noting                                                              
that he  was presently  in Arizona  attending a work-related  fire                                                              
management training  course.  He  explained that he is  a licensed                                                              
hunter and  trapper, and had  been so all  of his adult life.   He                                                              
said  he  respects  nonconsumptive  uses  and  users  of  Alaska's                                                              
wildlife.   He  noted that  he had  been  a member  of the  Alaska                                                              
Trappers  Association  since its  inception  in 1973,  and  served                                                              
several terms  as its president,  recently resigning  as director.                                                              
He  spoke about  serving on  the Fairbanks  Advisory Committee  to                                                              
the boards  of fish and  game for about  17 years, and  serving as                                                              
co-chair for  the coalition for the  Alaska Way of Life,  which he                                                              
said in  1998 directed  the defeat  of the  initiative that  would                                                              
have banned wolf snaring.  Mr. Buist remarked:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The  way I look  at it  is, wolves  are neither bad  nor                                                                   
     good,  they're  just  wolves,  but  they  obviously  can                                                                   
     negatively   impact   ungulate  populations;   ...   the                                                                   
     balance  of nature  that  we  hear so  much  about is  a                                                                   
     series  of highs and  lows ....   I'm  ready to put  the                                                                   
     resource   first,   listen   to   the   local   advisory                                                                   
     committees  and  the  biologists,   and  hopefully  make                                                                   
     decisions that keep the resource first.  Thank you.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1901                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HEINZE asked  Mr.  Buist how  he  felt about  [the                                                              
governor's executive  order] moving  [the Division of  Habitat and                                                              
Restoration] permitting  from [Alaska Department of  Fish and Game                                                              
(ADF&G)] to the [Department of Natural Resources (DNR)].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BUIST said it  was his goal to keep his DNR  job and his Board                                                              
of Game appointment  separate, and he would prefer  not to address                                                              
Representative Heinze's question.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1953                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   WOLF  asked   Mr.   Buist  how   he  felt   about                                                              
subsistence.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BUIST, in  response, said  he  thinks subsistence  is a  very                                                              
valid, and probably  the most important, use of  Alaska's wildlife                                                              
resources.     He  said  he  has   some  problems  with   the  way                                                              
subsistence is defined  and managed, but he feels that  the use of                                                              
wildlife  for food,  in most  cases, trumps  wildlife for  tourism                                                              
reasons, and some of the nonconsumptive arguments.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK,  referring to  Mr. Buist's resume,  said she                                                              
thought  he was  really qualified,  and acknowledged  that he  had                                                              
been  in the  state for  quite a  while.   She asked  him for  his                                                              
position on  the Tier II permit  [hunt supplements] for  moose and                                                              
caribou;  on  GMU  [Game  Management Unit]  13  for  the  Nelchina                                                              
[caribou]  herd; on  GMU  15 for  moose  in the  Matanuska  Valley                                                              
area;  and  on whether  he  thought  those  permits needed  to  be                                                              
worked on or was satisfied with how [the process] was working.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BUIST, in  response,  said  in general,  as  far  as Tier  II                                                              
permits are  concerned, he  had some  hesitations about  how those                                                              
permits  are administered.    He  said the  applicant's  residence                                                              
location is  not supposed to be  a criterion for  state allocation                                                              
of  resources and  yet  it still  seems to  be,  and he  suggested                                                              
there is probably a better way to administer [Tier II permits].                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MASEK,  noting that  she had provided  testimony to                                                              
the Board  of Game  last year,  said with  the new  administration                                                              
and new  board appointees, she felt  [Tier II permitting]  was one                                                              
of  the  areas that  needed  to  be  focused  on.   She  expressed                                                              
appreciation  to Mr. Buist  for taking  his time  to serve  on the                                                              
board, and  said with the [population]  of the state  growing, the                                                              
needs  are  going to  grow.    She remarked,  "With  the  impacted                                                              
areas,  ... with  our population  with  our moose  and caribou,  I                                                              
think we need  to address it, and  try to fine tune it  and fix it                                                              
up, so that it  would address and meet every  game management unit                                                              
in the state, so  that our Alaskan residents can  have their moose                                                              
and caribou."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BUIST,   in  response,   said  it  sounded   as  if   he  and                                                              
Representative Masek were working toward the same [objective].                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GUTTENBERG,  noting  Mr.  Buist's mention  of  the                                                              
nonconsumptive  user's  being  represented,  asked  Mr.  Buist  to                                                              
expand on  that and to explain  how he envisioned it  happening on                                                              
the board.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BUIST  remarked, "I don't  see why  I can't be  respectful and                                                              
supportive  of nonconsumptive users;  ... very  often meat  on the                                                              
table  trumps peace  of mind for  people who  don't want  anything                                                              
dead."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2196                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR FATE thanked  Mr. Buist and others like him  for the time                                                              
spent   in   trappers   associations   and   other   associations,                                                              
furthering the  end of true  conservation and the  real management                                                              
of animals in this  state.  He remarked, "Thank  you for literally                                                              
sacrificing  yourself to  our committee  and to  the job ahead  of                                                              
you."                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2271                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SHARON  McLEOD-EVERETTE,  Appointee,  Board  of  Game,  testified.                                                              
Noting  that she is  pretty much  a lifelong  Alaskan, except  she                                                              
missed being born  in the state by about 11 months.   She said she                                                              
grew up out on  the Glenn Highway at mile 153.5,  in a rural area;                                                              
her  family  hunted  and  fished  to eat;  she  went  through  the                                                              
Glennallen school  system; her mother  was her teacher  during the                                                              
time  the state  was a  territory  because there  wasn't a  school                                                              
near her  home; and  she continued on  to [attend] the  University                                                              
of Alaska  [Fairbanks  (UAF)].   She remarked,  "I learned  to eat                                                              
beef  in the  commons; it  was a  unique  experience after  having                                                              
grown  up on  moose, caribou,  grayling, and  Copper River  reds."                                                              
Ms.  McLeod-Everette explained  that  she  graduated from  college                                                              
with a  teaching degree  in 1971,  but she never  put it  to work;                                                              
she went  to work at the  Department of Transportation  and Public                                                              
Facilities (DOT&PF);  working in  the right-of-way,  planning, and                                                              
research  section,  where  she   ran  a  statewide  education  and                                                              
information  program.  She  said she  went back  to school  at UAF                                                              
and  earned  a  professional  writing  master's  degree  in  1993;                                                              
during that time,  she continued hunting and fishing;  in the late                                                              
1970s she  [worked] as a  cook in a  hunting camp and  received an                                                              
assistant  [hunting]  guide's  license  sometime  around  1982  or                                                              
1983;  and she  received  a big-game  hunting  guide's license  in                                                              
1989.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2353                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  McLEOD-EVERETTE   said  she   had  been   a  member   of  the                                                              
International Right  of Way Association  (IRWA) and had  held both                                                              
international  and local  chairmanships; is  a lifetime member  of                                                              
the  UAF Alumni  Association;  and  is a  member  of the  National                                                              
Rifle  Association (NRA),  the North  American  Hunting Club,  the                                                              
Alaska  Outdoor  Council  (AOC),   Midnight  Sun  Flycasters,  and                                                              
Nordic Ski  Club [Fairbanks  (NSCF)].  She  mentioned that  she is                                                              
involved in the  Becoming an Outdoors' Woman (BOW)  program across                                                              
the state,  which is managed  by [ADF&G], and  said she is  on the                                                              
steering  committee  for BOW  and  is  an instructor  for  various                                                              
[activities] including:   introduction to big-game  hunting; field                                                              
dressing;  backpack chef;  introduction to  fishing; rafting;  and                                                              
moose  calling.     She   talked  about   helping  the   Trapper's                                                              
Association  out with kids'  night activities,  and said  recently                                                              
she  had  gotten  involved  on   the  Fairbanks  literacy  council                                                              
advisory  board.  Ms.  McLeod-Everette talked  about working  with                                                              
the   UAF   master   planning   subcommittee   for   traffic   and                                                              
circulation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GUTTENBERG  highlighted   the  BOW  program   and                                                              
thanked Ms.  McLeod-Everette  for her involvement.   He  remarked,                                                              
"I think that's great, and I've heard great things about it."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE,  in response, told Representative  Guttenberg                                                              
that the  [BOW program] was one  of her favorite  [activities] and                                                              
remarked, "There  is nothing like  seeing the 'aha'  when somebody                                                              
who's not been exposed to something in the outdoors gets it."                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF  commended Ms. McLeod-Everette  on her resume,                                                              
and  asked  her  how  she felt  about  the  governor's  intent  to                                                              
streamline the  permitting process,  and whether she  supported "a                                                              
new  face for  [ADF&G],  as far  as bringing  new  ideas into  the                                                              
department."   He  noted that  a  commissioner for  ADF&G had  not                                                              
been [confirmed].                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS.  McLEOD-EVERETTE, referring  to the  permitting process,  said                                                              
she  thought there  was  always room  for  streamlining and  doing                                                              
things  better, but  she didn't  know what to  think about  moving                                                              
permitting from  ADF&G to  DNR; she didn't  know enough  about the                                                              
process  to   know  how  dramatically   it  would   affect  either                                                              
department.    She  talked  about  the  governor's  intention  and                                                              
remarked,  "I think  his  heart's  in the  right  place trying  to                                                              
streamline  the permitting  process," but  said there were  people                                                              
more versed  in it  than her and  that she would  wait to  see the                                                              
[outcome].                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2530                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF  asked  Ms. McLeod-Everette  if  she  thought                                                              
"new  blood" in  the department  would be  beneficial for  running                                                              
ADF&G.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE replied, "Absolutely, I think so."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE  asked Ms.  McLeod-Everette if she  would be                                                              
open to  the [Division of  Habitat and Restoration's]  being moved                                                              
to DNR if it would benefit the permitting [process].                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE,  in response,  reiterated that  her knowledge                                                              
about  the process  and the  impacts  were limited,  and that  she                                                              
could not speak about it.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF   clarified  that  his  question   was  about                                                              
streamlining the  permitting process rather than  about moving the                                                              
[Division of Habitat and Restoration].                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO,  referring to Ms. McLeod-Everette's  resume,                                                              
asked  her if  she had  a Master  of Arts  degree in  professional                                                              
writing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE replied, "Correct."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO  voiced  his  assumption  that  Ms.  McLeod-                                                              
Everette  would  probably  be a  watchdog  when  regulations  were                                                              
written and  remarked, "Clarity would  be available to all  of us,                                                              
and there would be no misunderstandings."                                                                                       
Number 2630                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  McLEOD-EVERETTE, in  response,  said clarity  is  a very  key                                                              
issue and  usually she  is a particularly  picky person  about it;                                                              
however, she  pointed out that there  are people who may  be above                                                              
her in the  process that have  more say about the  legal [aspects]                                                              
of writing [regulations].   She remarked, "But  you are absolutely                                                              
correct, I believe in clarity."                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO,  referring to  her resume, talked  about her                                                              
involvement   in  snowshoeing,   snow   machining,   cross-country                                                              
skiing,  and hiking,  and suggested  that many  of the  activities                                                              
Ms. McLeod-Everette  is involved in  are "opposed" to  each other.                                                              
He remarked,  "We know the wars  that go on between  cross-country                                                              
skiers  and  snowmachiners  ...,"  and  asked her  how  she  would                                                              
resolve the issue of opposing uses.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE remarked:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     I  think what  you look  at is  the balance  ... of  the                                                                   
     activities,  and  you look  at  the  primary use.    For                                                                   
     example,  you're  talking  about  closing  some  waters,                                                                   
     perhaps,  to motorized  uses, in  deference to  strictly                                                                   
     fly-fishing.   I think  you have  to analyze the  entire                                                                   
     situation, look  at what the full uses of  the area are;                                                                   
     there may  be other uses  that take precedence  over the                                                                   
     singular  use  of strictly  fly-fishing.   I  love  fly-                                                                   
     fishing;  ... there  are lots  of places  you can do  it                                                                   
     where  there   is  motorized  access  and  it's   not  a                                                                   
     problem.   A lot  of my activities  are done in  concert                                                                   
     with  one another, so,  ... I  see balance  in a lot  of                                                                   
     this.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GATTO  pointed out  that Ms. McLeod-Everette  was a                                                              
published  author and  asked her  if  she has  written books  that                                                              
deal with outdoor activities.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE  said yes, the book she published  talks about                                                              
growing  up on the  Glenn Highway  and about  doing some  guiding.                                                              
She mentioned  that she had  written for work related  newsletters                                                              
and  technical  journals  while  working  at DOT&PF;  she  had  to                                                              
translate highly  technical research  reports into something  that                                                              
a sixth or eighth grade student would understand.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GATTO remarked,  "Perhaps you  should have  been a                                                              
school teacher."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE,  highlighting the fact that she  had grown up                                                              
without electricity  or running  water, explained that  the reason                                                              
she  didn't become  a  teacher was  because  when she  [graduated]                                                              
from  college, the  only  teaching jobs  available  were in  areas                                                              
with  no electricity  or  running water,  and  she had  discovered                                                              
that she liked showers.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2816                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RONALD J. SOMERVILLE,  Appointee to the Board of  Game, testified,                                                              
noting that  he has been a resident  of Alaska for over  60 years,                                                              
and his  parents had moved  to Craig when he  was a year old.   He                                                              
talked  about receiving  a  bachelor's  degree at  Humboldt  State                                                              
University and his  master's degree at the University  of Montana.                                                              
Mr. Somerville said  he had an opportunity to  work in Washington,                                                              
D.C.,  for a year  and a  half, which  he said,  "Was really  [an]                                                              
education  in  itself."     He  explained  that   he  didn't  like                                                              
commuting  in  Washington,  D.C.,  and  wanted  to  come  back  to                                                              
Alaska,  so he  did.    Mr. Somerville  remarked,  "My  dad was  a                                                              
commercial fisherman,  and thus  I became a commercial  fisherman;                                                              
most  of my  family,  both  sides, my  mom  and dad,  were  fairly                                                              
large, so  we had lots  of relatives in  the area; we  were active                                                              
subsistence  users."   He talked  about his  stepfather's being  a                                                              
logger for  a number of years,  and said he also  had participated                                                              
in that activity.  He remarked:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     As  you  might  expect,  that   obviously  overlapped  a                                                                   
     period precluding  statehood, and  my dad was  an active                                                                   
     participant  in the process  of fighting for  statehood;                                                                   
     he  was  a  good friend  of  both  [E.L.]  Bartlett  and                                                                   
     [Ernest]  Gruening,  who used  to  come to  Craig  [and]                                                                   
     stay at our  place, so when I grew up I  became a strong                                                                   
     "state's righter,"  needless to  say.  When  I graduated                                                                   
     from  college,   I  went  to   work  for  the   [Alaska]                                                                   
     Department  of Fish  and Game  - didn't  really want  to                                                                   
     work anywhere else.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Luckily,  I   chose  wildlife  management   rather  than                                                                   
     fisheries;  I decided I  didn't want  to step back  into                                                                   
     that  arena.   I  must somewhat  blame  Carl Rosier  for                                                                   
     that;  ... he  was  the biologist  in  Ketchikan at  the                                                                   
     time  I was  fishing, and  I decided  that there  wasn't                                                                   
     much challenge  to his  job, because  we wanted to  fish                                                                   
     and he just  kept saying no.  Back in those  days ... we                                                                   
     went from  [a] 33 million ...  [catch] in Alaska  at the                                                                   
     beginning  of statehood  to well over  175 million;  ...                                                                   
     [it turns out] Carl was right.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2921                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE CONTINUED:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     I  didn't see  much future  in fisheries  back in  those                                                                   
     days.  I  started as a temporary seasonal  [employee] in                                                                   
     the [Alaska]  Department of  Fish and  Game - worked  in                                                                   
     research management.   I eventually had  the opportunity                                                                   
     to  step   to  [a]   regional  supervisor  position   in                                                                   
     Anchorage -  Anchorage running from the  Canadian border                                                                   
     all  the way out  to the  end of  the Aleutians; it's  a                                                                   
     fairly  large area,  and I  enjoyed that  job very  much                                                                   
     because  I got  to see  a good  part  of the  state.   I                                                                   
     eventually made  a big error in my life:   I volunteered                                                                   
     for [former  Governor] Jay Hammond's (d) (2)  task force                                                                   
     in 1974,  and spent the  next four years faring  between                                                                   
     Anchorage and Washington, D.C.,                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Later,  [I] became  director  of -  it was  in the  game                                                                   
     division   -  called   wildlife   conservation,  and   I                                                                   
     remained  in that  position  until I  retired.   I  then                                                                   
     came back  at the  request of  Governor Hickel and  went                                                                   
     back to work  for fish and game in 1991,  and worked for                                                                   
     four years;  I occupied  a deputy commissioner  position                                                                   
     for part of  that time.  I have worked for  the Wildlife                                                                   
     Legislative  Fund when I was  back in Washington  [D.C.]                                                                   
     for a  year and  a half.   I enjoyed  it very much;  the                                                                   
     opportunity  to  work  on ...  international  issues  in                                                                   
     wildlife  was  new to  me  and  I  enjoyed that,  but  I                                                                   
     didn't  enjoy Washington,  D.C.,   [Tape  changed  sides                                                                   
     mid-sentence.]                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-2, SIDE B                                                                                                             
Number 2985                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE continued:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     I've   also   volunteered   for  activities   with   the                                                                   
     department,  things   like  the  unit  for   brown  bear                                                                   
     management  plan;  king  salmon   management  plan,  and                                                                   
     things  like that  representing  what  I considered  the                                                                   
     users of the state, and I've enjoyed that activity.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked, "How do you feel about new blood in                                                                  
the department or bringing individuals up through the department                                                                
to be the new  commissioner or selecting one  of those individuals                                                              
as commissioner?"                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE remarked:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Especially  with  the  phenomenal   change  between  the                                                                   
     previous  administration  and this  administration,  ...                                                                   
     you've got to  make major changes, because  ... in order                                                                   
     to  get what  you  want from  this  department, which  I                                                                   
     think is  to reinstate  it as one  of the classic,  top,                                                                   
     scientifically       well-credited,       well-respected                                                                   
     organizations  throughout   the  world  and  the  United                                                                   
     States  ,... you've  got to  change  things, and  you've                                                                   
     got  to have  leadership that  falls in  step with  what                                                                   
     the governor  wants to  do, and there's  got to  be some                                                                   
     new blood.   I agree with that; ... it doesn't  mean you                                                                   
     go  down  and   you  get  rid  of  all   your  appointed                                                                   
     positions,  but  you  assess them  selectively  and  ...                                                                   
     make  the  appropriate  appointments.    I  believe  you                                                                   
     always hire somebody smarter than you ....                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2893                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MASEK remarked, "I  am glad that  your name  is on                                                              
this  board;  I really  appreciate  your  willingness  ... to  get                                                              
involved with  it.  I know this  board is a pretty crucial  one to                                                              
the  makeup   of  our   fish  and   game  here   in  the   state."                                                              
Representative   Masek  suggested   that   subsistence  would   be                                                              
addressed during  the session,  and asked  Mr. Somerville  what he                                                              
thought  about  it,  and  how  he   felt  about  amending  [Alaska                                                              
National  Interest   Lands  Conservation   Act]  (ANILCA).     She                                                              
mentioned  sacrificing Alaska's  constitution and  the rights  for                                                              
the resources  for all Alaskans.   She asked Mr. Somerville  if he                                                              
thought changes [to ANILCA] should also be made in Congress.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE,  noting that  he had worked  for eight years  as a                                                              
resource  consultant  to both  the  House and  Senate  majorities,                                                              
said he did not  ask for this job.  He was on  the transition team                                                              
and made recommendations  of a variety of people for  the Board of                                                              
Fisheries and  Board of Game  appointments.   His name was  not on                                                              
that list,  but the  governor personally asked  him to  submit his                                                              
name.  Mr.  Somerville remarked, "I  am in front of you  because I                                                              
made that  commitment,"  and said  he is also  committed to  doing                                                              
everything possible  to meet the  needs of Alaskans  - consumptive                                                              
and nonconsumptive users.  He remarked:                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     I  really respect  the  advisory committee  system;  I'm                                                                   
     really   ...  respectful   of  the   people  out   there                                                                   
     (indisc.) working  everywhere in the state,  all the way                                                                   
     up to Point  Hope; I spent a winter out there,  and I am                                                                   
     appreciative  of cultures,  subsistence uses, [and]  our                                                                   
     resources.    I'm  respectful   of  all  a  variety  of,                                                                   
     particularly,  the Native people.   I was raised  by the                                                                   
     Tlingits, virtually, in Craig.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2778                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE continued:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     I volunteered  for [former Governor] Jay  Hammond's task                                                                   
     force on  (d) (2) [lands  under ANCSA], Harris  (ph) and                                                                   
     I went  out to the villages  to get some views  from the                                                                   
     villagers  and what  they'd like  to see.   Jay  Hammond                                                                   
     gave  me one  mission  when I  went  back to  Washington                                                                   
     [D.C.] as a  representative of ... [ADF&G];  he says ...                                                                   
     when we  leave, I want  to make sure  that we have  done                                                                   
     nothing  to diminish  the  state's authority  to  manage                                                                   
     its  fish and  wildlife,  and that's  where  I got  into                                                                   
     trouble, because  I did not agree with what  the federal                                                                   
     government was doing in ANILCA.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     I  brought that  to  the attention  of  the governor,  a                                                                   
     variety of processes,  which, I'm sure, most  of you are                                                                   
     aware  of, and  I don't think  we're going  to meet  the                                                                   
     subsistence   needs  of  Alaskans.     We're  going   to                                                                   
     discriminate  against 40 to 45  percent of the  people I                                                                   
     respect,  the  Native  people  who  live  in  the  urban                                                                   
     areas.   We  are pitting  Alaskans  against each  other,                                                                   
     and  it's just  a  terrible,  terrible situation.    I'm                                                                   
     going to  try again to  see if there  isn't some  way we                                                                   
     can  help  solve  those  problems;  obviously,  a  board                                                                   
     member by himself is not going to do that.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SOMERVILLE   remarked,  "I've   got  something  with   me  to                                                              
illustrate  my  commitment to  that,  my  pledge to  ...  Governor                                                              
Hammond."   He  read  a  letter dated  April  18,  1978, from  the                                                              
Department of Law to the commissioners of DNR and ADF&G:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     There is no  qualification that the program  required by                                                                   
     the Secretary  to be constitutional  under state  law as                                                                   
     interpreted  by final rulings  of Alaska Supreme  Court.                                                                   
     It is not  difficult to envision the situation  with the                                                                   
     Secretary   under  Title   VII,  ...   Title  VIII,   or                                                                   
     (indisc.)  might require  the state  to adopt or  change                                                                   
     some  of  the state's  subsistence  management  program,                                                                   
     which would  be unconstitutional and thus  impossible to                                                                   
     implement and enforce under state law.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SOMERVILLE  said  prior  to ANILCA's  passage  in  1980,  the                                                              
Department  of Law  "was telling  us what  was in  Title VIII  was                                                              
probably, more than  likely, unconstitutional, that  we were going                                                              
to get into exactly  the situation we're in right  now."  He said,                                                              
in light of  that, he did not  support the federal law  and that's                                                              
what's  got  him  "crosswised"  with the  Native  community.    He                                                              
remarked, "A  lot of them,  believe it  or not, are  still friends                                                              
of mine,  and ... it's  got me into  trouble through the  years in                                                              
discussing subsistence;  ... honestly,  I believe in  subsistence,                                                              
true subsistence,  as much  as anybody  sitting here or  listening                                                              
...."                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2664                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MASEK, referring  to  Tier II  permits, asked  Mr.                                                              
Somerville  if  the issue  could  be  addressed  in the  next  two                                                              
years.    She  said  the  moose  and  caribou  population  in  the                                                              
Interior  is growing  and  she has  had  numerous complaints  from                                                              
constituents in  the [Willow] area  about the permitting  process.                                                              
She  suggested  the  complaints   would  increase  over  time  and                                                              
indicated she  is interested in resolving  the issue to  make it a                                                              
fair and  equitable process.   Representative Masek,  referring to                                                              
constituents'  concerns, said the  [permitting process]  was based                                                              
on  zip codes  and  the [applicant's  place  of  residency].   She                                                              
explained that  many people  have lived in  the Interior  for many                                                              
years and  "they've established  that usage,  and all of  a sudden                                                              
they were  disqualified for it."  She reiterated that  the process                                                              
needs to  be reviewed  and asked  Mr. Somerville  if he  thought a                                                              
review could be accomplished during this session.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SOMERVILLE, in  response,  said  he hadn't  seen  all of  the                                                              
details, but  he thought  there are "some  things that  are broken                                                              
there."  He remarked:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     I've  always said,  in  terms of  Fairbanks,  Anchorage,                                                                   
     and  the Nelchina  Basin,  which  I am  really  familiar                                                                   
     with,  we  have  a  terrible   situation  on  moose  and                                                                   
     caribou  there, particularly  moose  - the  population's                                                                   
     extremely low.   Hunting just  isn't like it was  in the                                                                   
     early 1970s or  late 1960s, and thus this  is the result                                                                   
     of these  populations declining,  and it increased  more                                                                   
     of  a  conflict,  which has  resulted  in  exactly  what                                                                   
     you're saying,  is that  there's less permits  available                                                                   
     at  [the]   Tier  II   level.    But   it  also   is  an                                                                   
     illustration:  ... if  you look  at the  people who  are                                                                   
     getting  Tier  II  permits,  it  appears  to  be,  in  a                                                                   
     general  sense, the  people  who can  stretch the  truth                                                                   
     farthest  get  the  permits,  and the  people  who  have                                                                   
     relied  on them, somehow,  are being  shuffled out;  ...                                                                   
     that's just a general observation.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 2553                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE  talked about the press's view that he is against                                                                
subsistence.  He said:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     I  want  to  make  it clear  that  you  people  are  the                                                                   
     policymakers  of  the  state;  the Board  of  Game,  the                                                                   
     Board of  Fisheries implement  those [and] they  have to                                                                   
     have  some discretion  how  they do  that  ....   You've                                                                   
     established  a  subsistence priority,  which  [includes]                                                                   
     the Tier II  process, which the boards are  obligated to                                                                   
     implement.   I can't  blame the boards,  but I  do think                                                                   
     they have  some discretion on  going back to try  to fix                                                                   
     some of  those things.  Some  of the problems  there are                                                                   
     not going  to go away until  the laws change,  if that's                                                                   
     what you want.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE, referring to Mr. Somerville's resume,                                                                    
asked him why he changed positions from deputy commissioner to                                                                  
special assistant in 1993.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE replied:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     At the  time, McKie  Campbell was  working on a  special                                                                   
     assignment  with the  governor's  office on  subsistence                                                                   
     and other  things, but  that was when  it was made,  and                                                                   
     that they  essentially came to  an end, and  they wanted                                                                   
     to  move him  someplace.   I  volunteered  to vacate  my                                                                   
     deputy  commissioner's  spot  so that  he  could  occupy                                                                   
     that  position,   but  they   kept  me  on   as  special                                                                   
     assistant, and I kind of did what I was doing anyway.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked Mr. Somerville if he supported                                                                      
moving the [Division of Habitat and Restoration ] to DNR, and                                                                   
also if he would protect the albino [bear] in Juneau.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2456                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE  recalled a  conversation with  Jim Clark  in which                                                              
Mr.  Clark told  him the  worst  thing he  ever did  was let  [Mr.                                                              
Somerville]  talk the governor  into not  moving the Habitat  [and                                                              
Restoration Division].  He explained:                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     I came at  the request of [former Governor]  Hickel; ...                                                                   
     they  appointed  Carl  Rosier as  commissioner;  ...  we                                                                   
     were under  a lot of pressure  to move habitat  .... I'm                                                                   
     of a  philosophy that anything  in government  will work                                                                   
     if you  want to, people  really have committed  to doing                                                                   
     that ....   We talked  to the governor  and said  let us                                                                   
     do  an  internal   review  and  find  out   if  ...  the                                                                   
     accusations  are accurate and  what can  be done  to fix                                                                   
     it.   So, I  wrote; ... Frank  Rue helped  - he was  the                                                                   
     director  of habitat.   We  interviewed industry  people                                                                   
     ... across  the state.  We  did ... a fairly  exhaustive                                                                   
     personal  interview;  it  wasn't  a  public-hearing-type                                                                   
     problem,   but   we   went   to  people   we   had   any                                                                   
     communications  with about  habitat, and  we found  that                                                                   
     [in] ...  some places in the  state it was  working very                                                                   
     well, and  Al Ott (ph)  in Fairbanks, well  respected by                                                                   
     the mining and  the oil and gas industry,  does he agree                                                                   
     with them all  the time?  No, but are they  able to work                                                                   
     with him?  Absolutely, he's very positive.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE said  in 1992 he issued a report  for the [Division                                                              
of  Habitat and  Restoration]  recommending  major changes,  which                                                              
were  implemented.   He  explained  that  people  he knew  in  the                                                              
industry had  said [the changes]  worked very well.   He remarked,                                                              
"The  problem has  been,  ... had  habitat  stuck ...  to what  we                                                              
concocted back  in 1992,  we wouldn't  be having this  discussion,                                                              
but apparently they  didn't.  Apparently, a lot of  things went on                                                              
[that the] division  ... had no business getting into.  "  He said                                                              
he  had  always been  critical  about  the  fact that  when  other                                                              
departments do  not do their job,  the pressure comes back  on the                                                              
permitting  biologists  in  ADF&G  to  pick  up  the  slack.    He                                                              
remarked,   "It   came   all   the  time   when   I   was   deputy                                                              
[commissioner],  that  DEC  doesn't enforce  their  water  quality                                                              
standards,  they run  to [ADF&G]  under  Title 16  or the  [Alaska                                                              
Forest Resources and  Practices Act] to do DEC's job,  and we kept                                                              
telling  [them]  that's  not your  statutory  responsibility;  you                                                              
can't do that."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2348                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE talked  about the appeals process  and remarked, "I                                                              
think we stuck to  that, and I think had they  done that, it might                                                              
have worked."   Referring  to [the proposed  move of  the Division                                                              
of Habitat and  Restoration], he said, if there's  a major problem                                                              
and the  governor's convinced  it will not  be fixed,  then "we've                                                              
got to give  it a try."   Mr. Somerville explained that  he talked                                                              
with the  [governor] about  leaving some of  the functions  of the                                                              
[Division  of  Habitat  and  Restoration]  in ADF&G  and  said  he                                                              
thought [those functions]  operate very well there.   He explained                                                              
that he helped  create the [Division of Habitat  and Restoration];                                                              
back  when he  worked for  the division  of game,  there had  been                                                              
several  similar [permitting]  positions in  other divisions,  and                                                              
the  process was  a mess  until someone  suggested combining  [the                                                              
various  permitting positions  into  one division].    He said  it                                                              
made sense,  it was  done, and it  had come a  long way  since its                                                              
creation.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HEINZE reiterated  her question  about the  albino                                                              
bear.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE remarked,  "My general tendency is,  you can't have                                                              
closed  areas around  a lot  of areas  without creating  problems;                                                              
... I'm sympathetic  for a variety of reasons -  the protection of                                                              
some unique  resources that  there's no other  way out."   He said                                                              
he would have to look at the details.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2258                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN expressed appreciation  for Mr.  Somerville's                                                              
position  on subsistence,  and suggested  that if  a person  never                                                              
takes  a strong  position  on  a  controversial issue,  then  that                                                              
person  is not  doing  his or  her  job.   He  inquired about  Mr.                                                              
Somerville's short time in the Air Force.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SOMERVILLE, in  response, said  he had  received an  honorary                                                              
discharge.   He spoke about his  initial experience and  said, "At                                                              
that time, the Air  Force had too many pilots and  they offered us                                                              
two-year  discharges for  a variety  of family  reasons, which  my                                                              
dad was an  alcoholic; I decided  to leave the Air Force  and came                                                              
back to  Alaska and  ... went back  to school,  and it  worked out                                                              
okay for  me."   He said  he would  have liked  to have stayed  in                                                              
[the Air Force],  and had he been sent to Bainbridge,  Florida, he                                                              
would probably still be in the Air Force.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LYNN thanked  Mr. Somerville  for [his service  in                                                              
the Air Force].                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SOMERVILLE added  that  every summer  he  received a  request                                                              
from the  Air Force  asking him  if he wanted  to go to  Anchorage                                                              
for training, but he always reluctantly declined.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2148                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GATTO    expressed   concerns    about   resource                                                              
management and said  it was "one of the difficulties  we're having                                                              
now."   He  suggested  the  resource depends  a  lot  more on  the                                                              
habitat for  its own survival,  and that  the habitat seems  to be                                                              
available.   Representative  Gatto  expressed  concerns about  the                                                              
moose population  and difficulties  in breeding,  attributed  to a                                                              
low moose population  and the [animals'] being  separated by great                                                              
distance.  He  remarked, "Not only do they suffer  from predation,                                                              
but, consequently,  an inability to breed."   Representative Gatto                                                              
referred  to  the  passenger  pigeon   and  suggested  [it  became                                                              
extinct] because  the numbers were  so thin that they  were unable                                                              
to follow  their natural  instincts to find  each other  and mate.                                                              
He  expressed  similar  concerns   about  the  moose  and  caribou                                                              
populations   and  asked   whether  such   a  scenario  was   ever                                                              
considered.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SOMERVILLE,  in response, said  years of bull  [moose] hunting                                                              
in the  Matanuska Valley drove the  population down to  four bulls                                                              
per 100  cows.   He said he  and a  committee member's  father had                                                              
fought over cow  moose seasons for years because there  were a lot                                                              
of cows but not  enough bulls.  Mr. Somerville said  the focus was                                                              
getting  people to  divert their  attention by  taking a few  cows                                                              
and  keeping  within  carrying  capacity  to  raise  the  bull:cow                                                              
ratio, [as  a result] productivity  went back  up again.   He said                                                              
there's  a variety  of  places in  the  state  where that  similar                                                              
situation starts  to occur.   He offered  the Nelchina Basin  as a                                                              
good example  of driving the bull:cow  ratio down and  having them                                                              
disperse  over  large  areas  during the  breeding  season.    Mr.                                                              
Somerville explained  that [the reason for the  low population] is                                                              
not because the  cows don't breed; they go into  second estrus and                                                              
breed the second  time, and the calves go into the  winter in very                                                              
poor condition,  are very small, and  usually perish.   He said it                                                              
is a legitimate  concern and depends on the size  of the area they                                                              
occupy  and the  species  involved.   For  instance, caribou  will                                                              
still participate  in their  movements regardless  of the  size of                                                              
the caribou  herd and  they can generally  find each  other during                                                              
the season.  He said the second estrus becomes a major problem.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1957                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TED SPRAKER,  Appointee to  the Board  of Game, testified,  noting                                                              
that he could not  be in Juneau in person because  he was in Aniak                                                              
attending   the  central  Kuskokwim   moose  management   planning                                                              
effort.   He mentioned  that the  effort had  been insightful  for                                                              
him  and noted  that  many key  issues had  been  discussed.   Mr.                                                              
Spraker  said he  was  raised in  Wyoming  and  had completed  his                                                              
schooling at the  University of Wyoming, earning  an undergraduate                                                              
degree  in wildlife  management  and a  master's  degree in  range                                                              
management.   He noted that he  has lived in Alaska  since shortly                                                              
after completing  graduate school in  May 1973.  Mr.  Spraker said                                                              
he is 54  years old, is married  to Elaina Spraker, and  has three                                                              
children;  his  23-year-old  son   works  for  Intel  in  Phoenix,                                                              
Arizona, and  his two stepchildren,  Kyle and Ashley, are  ages 12                                                              
and 14.   He  said his  family is very  outdoors-oriented;  all of                                                              
the  members of  his  family hunt  and fish,  are  very active  in                                                              
hunting, and  do quite a  bit of fishing  during the summer.   Mr.                                                              
Spraker mentioned that  he does quite a bit of  trapping with Kyle                                                              
as  his trapping  partner.   He  said  he recently  retired  after                                                              
working for  28 years as a  wildlife biologist at ADF&G  and noted                                                              
that Mr.  Somerville was instrumental  in hiring him in  1974 when                                                              
he first started with the state.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1808                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER said  he felt he had accomplished a lot  of things for                                                              
the  betterment of  wildlife management  and  the different  users                                                              
and had been involved  with a variety of projects  over his career                                                              
with ADF&G that  had really made a difference.  He  talked about a                                                              
project  in which 80  caribou were  moved to  the Kenai  Peninsula                                                              
and  said a  couple of  years ago  that  herd numbered  800.   Mr.                                                              
Spraker  said  he  thought  that  was  a  real  change,  something                                                              
positive that he was  glad to be a part of.  He  suggested that he                                                              
was instrumental,  back in  the early  1980s, in recognizing  that                                                              
something had  to be done on  the Kenai Peninsula about  the moose                                                              
hunting.   He mentioned  that bull:cow ratios  get very  low, that                                                              
cows  have to  move  to find  bulls, and  second-estrus  breeding.                                                              
Mr. Spraker  said [ADF&G] worked  with the advisory  committee and                                                              
members  of  the public  to  put  together the  Selective  Harvest                                                              
Program on the  Kenai Peninsula.  Although various  aspects of the                                                              
program  were  used  in  other  parts  of  the  state,  the  Kenai                                                              
Peninsula  was  the  first  place   that  put  the  whole  program                                                              
together  as  far as  harvesting  some  of  the small  and  larger                                                              
bulls.  He said  that program has restored the  bull:cow ratio and                                                              
the health  of the  moose population; because  of the  success, it                                                              
has been used in other parts of the state.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1699                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER  said he has been a  lifetime member of NRA  for about                                                              
25  years and  has been  an official  measurer for  the Boone  and                                                              
Crockett Club  for about 15 years,  which he said amounts  to only                                                              
6-10 animals measured  per year.  He talked about  being a hunter-                                                              
education  instructor  for  about   15  years,  working  with  the                                                              
department and since  retirement; he said it is one  of the things                                                              
that he  has been  very interested  in.  He  said youth  hunts are                                                              
extremely important  to him.  He and his daughter  participated in                                                              
a youth hunt  last fall and she  got a moose; it was  an extremely                                                              
exciting  time  for both  of  them.   He  talked  about  achieving                                                              
various awards  throughout the years  and said the  most important                                                              
award  that  has  meant  a  great deal  to  him  is  the  lifetime                                                              
conservation    achievement   award    from   the   Safari    Club                                                              
International.    He  noted  that   he  was  also  a  member,  and                                                              
remarked, "That  meant a lot to  me because you look back  on what                                                              
you've done  for the last  almost 30 years,  and it's nice  to see                                                              
that you've accomplished  things that helped the  resource, helped                                                              
the  users,  and   people  appreciated  it,  and   that  was  very                                                              
important to me."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SPRAKER talked  about  his hobbies  -  hunting, fishing,  and                                                              
trapping  - and said  he considers  viewing to  be something  very                                                              
important to  the state.  He said  he is a viewer for  11.5 months                                                              
of the  year and  a pretty avid  hunter for  the other  few weeks.                                                              
He  said he  had watched  the  Board of  Game  process during  his                                                              
entire  career  with ADF&G  and  is  really  anxious to  see  some                                                              
things done under  the new administration.  Mr.  Spraker suggested                                                              
there  is  a  strong  commitment  to doing  good  things  for  the                                                              
resource and  the users.  He said  he is getting a  firsthand view                                                              
of  that by  being in  Aniak and  talking with  the local  people,                                                              
understanding  their needs, and  seeing what  needs to be  done to                                                              
help the users and the resource.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1549                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF asked  Mr. Spraker,  "How do  you feel  about                                                              
new blood in  the department [for the] commissioner  and/or do you                                                              
support bringing someone up from within the department."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1515                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER  replied, "With  this administration,  ... I  think we                                                              
need some  new blood, I  think we need  some new thinking;  ... we                                                              
certainly need  people that are willing  to look at new  ideas and                                                              
bring some new thoughts to the table ...."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MASEK told Mr.  Spraker she was  glad to  see that                                                              
he  had  accepted  his  appointment  to  the  Board  of  Game  and                                                              
commended him  for his involvement  in changing the bag  limit for                                                              
moose from  an "any bull" program  to a Selective  Harvest System.                                                              
Representative  Masek  referred  to  the  last  paragraph  of  Mr.                                                              
Spraker's  resume,  which  read   in  part  [original  punctuation                                                              
provided]:                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     I also  believe that under  this new administration  the                                                                   
     Board  will  be  allowed  to   make  needed  changes  to                                                                   
     benefit wildlife  populations and their habitats,  and a                                                                   
     variety of users across the state.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MASEK said  she thought his  comments were  really                                                              
important  and noted  the importance  of ensuring  that the  board                                                              
continues to strive, adopt, and make needed changes.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1395                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA asked  Mr. Spraker  for some examples  of                                                              
things he thought should be happening.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER remarked:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     One  of the  things  that's  close at  hand  ... is  the                                                                   
     meeting  that  I'm  involved   in  now;  ...  I've  been                                                                   
     listening  to  the  local concerns;  ...  I  know  we've                                                                   
     talked  several  times  and you've  asked  other  people                                                                   
     about  Tier II  and subsistence  and so  forth.  One  of                                                                   
     the  ways  I  think  Tier  II  needs  to  be  addressed,                                                                   
     instead  of   continually  restricting  people:     like                                                                   
     others  have said, whoever's  the most  creative in  the                                                                   
     writing  usually gets  the  Tier II  permits, and  maybe                                                                   
     people  that  are  much more  deserving  don't  get  the                                                                   
     permit  because  they're  not  willing  to  stretch  the                                                                   
     truth  on   their  need  of   the  resource   or  direct                                                                   
     dependence  and so forth  on the resource.   One  of the                                                                   
     things that I  would really like to see is,  I'd like to                                                                   
     see the  state take a  very strong and aggressive  stand                                                                   
     as  far as  predator management,  and  that's the  clear                                                                   
     picture out here.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     There's  clear evidence  that the  moose population  has                                                                   
     declined  rapidly.   It was  pretty  much triggered  ...                                                                   
     following   1996,   when  land-and-shoot   [hunting   of                                                                   
     predators]  was halted  across  Alaska,  and talking  to                                                                   
     the local people  here, in the next four  or five years,                                                                   
     the  moose population  declined  rapidly.   I asked  the                                                                   
     question  about weather,  because weather  ... can  kill                                                                   
     more  moose,  just  using moose  as  [an]  example,  but                                                                   
     weather   can  be   really   detrimental   on  a   moose                                                                   
     population,  and there  was some discussion  of one  bad                                                                   
     winter  in   the  early  1990s,  ...  along   the  lower                                                                   
     Kuskokwim or  central Kuskokwim area, but  everyone said                                                                   
     ... we need  someone to step up and do something  as far                                                                   
     as managing  predators, and  I'm not just talking  about                                                                   
     wolves;  I'm  talking about  the  high number  of  black                                                                   
     bears,  a fairly dense  brown bear  population, and,  of                                                                   
     course, wolves as well.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     You  can't just  manage  predators.   You  have to  have                                                                   
     adequate  habitat.   That's something  else I'd like  to                                                                   
     ... look  into, and, of course,  fish and game  has done                                                                   
     a  good  job  of,  probably,  putting  that  information                                                                   
     together; ...  I haven't had a chance to  really look at                                                                   
     it  yet, but  we  also need  to look  at  the number  of                                                                   
     hunters here,  because hunters make  an impact.   One of                                                                   
     the things  that I  am really  concerned with, and  this                                                                   
     kind of  bears some interest  in the subsistence  arena,                                                                   
     is  ... the  proliferation of  guides in  Unit 19;  it's                                                                   
     one  of  the  comments  I'm   ...  hearing  at  all  the                                                                   
     meetings  here,  is  that  even  if  we  did  a  lot  to                                                                   
     increase the  numbers of moose,  the guides  would build                                                                   
     up,  and basically,  continually  take  more moose,  ...                                                                   
     because more guides would build up in this area.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1185                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. SPRAKER continued:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     I think  they've gone  from somewhere  around 40  guides                                                                   
     to  80 or  90 guides  right now  in Unit  19, and  [the]                                                                   
     same thing  with transporters.   So,  those are some  of                                                                   
     the issues  that I would really  like to look at  ... if                                                                   
     I was  a member of the Board  of Game; I'd like  to look                                                                   
     at management  of predators; I'd  like to look  at which                                                                   
     users  are getting  these moose;  I  am very  interested                                                                   
     [in]  local people  having  not a  clear priority,  but,                                                                   
     certainly,  benefits and  local benefits  and so  forth,                                                                   
     so  they  basically  have  a  little  better  chance  of                                                                   
     getting a  moose, especially out  here in some  of these                                                                   
     villages where there's some real, true subsistence.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1084                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CLIFFORD P.  JUDKINS, Appointee to  the Board of  Game, testified,                                                              
noting that  he had  moved to Alaska  more than  40 years  ago and                                                              
had  previously served  in the  [Air Force]  with Mr.  Somerville.                                                              
He said  he had  a bachelor's  degree in  wildlife management  and                                                              
had  worked  in  Anchorage  with   the  greater  Anchorage  health                                                              
district  before the  borough was  formed; after  the borough  was                                                              
formed he  became director of  the Greater Anchorage  Area Borough                                                              
Department   of  Environmental   Quality.     He   said  he   left                                                              
[Anchorage] after  10 years,  went down to  Moose Pass,  and built                                                              
Crown Point  Lodge, which  he operated  for about  16 years.   Mr.                                                              
Judkins talked  about serving  on the  Seward advisory  committee,                                                              
and said he  was also the chairman  a few times.  He  said he left                                                              
[Moose Pass],  moved to  Wasilla, and was  the owner  and operator                                                              
of Wasilla Mini-Storage until he sold it and retired in 1998.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JUDKINS said  he  had  been on  the  fish and  game  advisory                                                              
committee in [Wasilla]  for about six years and had  served as the                                                              
chairman  for the  past year;  he  just stepped  down as  chairman                                                              
when  he was  appointed to  the Board  of Game.   He  said he  was                                                              
excited about  being on the  board and that  he had gone  to board                                                              
of fish  and game meetings  for about 30  years and  had testified                                                              
more times  than he could  recall.  He  remarked, "[I]  was always                                                              
frustrated that  you can get  up there  and testify and  they'd go                                                              
on with their  business and wouldn't  listen to what you  said, it                                                              
seemed  like."   He said  it would  be  interesting to  be on  the                                                              
"other side  of the shoe,  so to speak."   Mr. Judkins,  referring                                                              
to his  wife, said she  had lived in the  state most of  her life,                                                              
and was raised  in Fairbanks and  Kodiak; her father was  chief of                                                              
police  in Kodiak  in  the 1950s  and  1960s.   He  said his  wife                                                              
currently lives in  Wasilla with him, and their  daughter lives in                                                              
North Pole.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0920                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF asked, "How  do you feel  about new  blood in                                                              
the department as  a commissioner or bringing someone  from within                                                              
the department?"                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0903                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. JUDKINS said  he thought the department needed  new blood.  He                                                              
talked about  attending board  meetings for  the last  eight years                                                              
and  his  disappointment  with  the  performance.    He  remarked,                                                              
"While  the guys  are  doing their  job  under the  administration                                                              
they're  in, I  think  we've got  new ideas  and  need new  people                                                              
there."     He  said  the   department  needed  to   get  wildlife                                                              
management credentials  and get it reestablished as  the top notch                                                              
department in the nation.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA asked  Mr. Judkins  what types of  things                                                              
he would be championing as a board member.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. JUDKINS,  referring to Tier  II, said a  lot of people  in the                                                              
[Matanuska-Susitna area]  hunt or would like to  hunt the Nelchina                                                              
caribou herd  in Unit  13, and  there were  about 18 proposals  by                                                              
citizens who  were upset  with the process  of choosing  who could                                                              
hunt there  and who  couldn't.   Mr. Judkins  said he  thought the                                                              
[process]  needed to  be revised,  but added  that he didn't  have                                                              
the answers right  now, other than to just throw it  out and go to                                                              
a drawing - but  nobody likes that either.  He  suggested it was a                                                              
problem  that needs  to be  dealt with  and said  the other  major                                                              
problem is  dealing with  predators.   Mr. Judkins explained  that                                                              
managing  habitat,   predators,  and   hunters  can  be   done  to                                                              
influence wildlife  populations, and  suggested that not  much had                                                              
been done about  predators.  He said there had been  three or four                                                              
predator-management  plans  that had  gone  through  [BOG] in  the                                                              
past three or four  years, but none of them had  been implemented.                                                              
Mr. Judkins  suggested that  those plans need  to be  reviewed and                                                              
implemented where they are still feasible.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  asked if "we" had gone to  Tier II on the                                                              
Nelchina river.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  JUDKINS said  the Nelchina  caribou herd  went to  Tier II  a                                                              
number of  years ago,  and the  moose herd  is "teetering"  on the                                                              
balance right  now.    All that is needed  is 600 bulls  there for                                                              
subsistence purposes,  he said, and "we're" just  right about half                                                              
of that.   He  suggested it may  [reach that  number] in  the next                                                              
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0713                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROD ARNO,  testified.   Noting that  he thought  the governor  had                                                              
made  some  excellent  choices,  he  said he  knows  five  of  the                                                              
[appointees] personally  and knows they have sincere  interests in                                                              
subsistence  hunters, whether  local or  urban; in  nonconsumptive                                                              
viewers  of   wildlife;  and   in  sports   hunters.     Mr.  Arno                                                              
acknowledged  that  he  didn't   personally  know  Sharon  McLeod-                                                              
Everette but  said she is, as  a big-game guide,  "representing an                                                              
industry  that  has  over  100  years  of  history  in  Alaska  of                                                              
successfully  operating, and, obviously,  under sustained  yield."                                                              
He  suggested  the [big-game  industry]  pays  for 80  percent  of                                                              
wildlife conservation's  budget.  He  offered his belief  that the                                                              
criticism  [that there  is]  an unbalanced  board  is unjust,  and                                                              
said  as long  as there  are individuals  who  don't believe  that                                                              
viewing  and  hunting  of the  same  populations  are  compatible,                                                              
there's  no middle  ground, and  conflict with  those people  will                                                              
continue.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0584                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR   CHENAULT  asked   if   there  was   additional   public                                                              
testimony; none was offered.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR CHENAULT  offered his belief  that the governor  had done                                                              
a good  job [in nominating]  the appointees,  and said  he thought                                                              
Mr. Somerville  said it best when  he said one should  hire people                                                              
smarter  than   oneself.    He   said  he  believed  it   was  the                                                              
committee's duty to pass [the appointees] on for confirmation.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0520                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  FATE remarked,  "As the  years  have gone  by, and  I've                                                              
lived  in this state  a long  time, I  don't believe  that I  have                                                              
ever seen a  better slate going to  the Board of Game  than I have                                                              
today."   He congratulated not only  the appointees, but  also the                                                              
governor for  taking the time  to "sometimes personally  interview                                                              
these  people and  select such  a  wonderful slate,  and I  really                                                              
truthfully mean that."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
[No formal  motion was made, but  the appointments of  Pete Buist,                                                              
Sharon  McLeod-Everette,  Ronald J.  Somerville,  Ted H.  Spraker,                                                              
and Clifford P.  Judkins were treated as advanced  from committee.                                                              
The confirmation  of Michael  Fleagle would  be heard  on February                                                              
12.]                                                                                                                            
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being  no further business  before the committee,  the House                                                              
Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:30 p.m.                                                                 

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