Legislature(2003 - 2004)
02/05/2003 01:00 PM RES
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE February 5, 2003 1:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Representative Mike Chenault, Co-Chair Representative Hugh Fate, Co-Chair Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair Representative Carl Gatto Representative Cheryll Heinze Representative Bob Lynn Representative Kelly Wolf Representative David Guttenberg Representative Beth Kerttula MEMBERS ABSENT All members present COMMITTEE CALENDAR HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6 Urging the United States Congress to pass legislation to open the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska, to oil and gas exploration, development, and production. - MOVED HJR 6 OUT OF COMMITTEE CONFIRMATION HEARINGS Board of Game Pete Buist - Fairbanks Sharon McLeod-Everette - Fairbanks Ronald J. Somerville - Juneau Ted H. Spraker - Soldotna Clifford P. Judkins - Wasilla - CONFIRMATION(S) ADVANCED Michael Fleagle - McGrath - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HJR 6 SHORT TITLE:ENDORSING ANWR LEASING SPONSOR(S): OIL & GAS Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action 01/24/03 0059 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS 01/24/03 0059 (H) O&G, RES 01/30/03 (H) O&G AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 124 01/30/03 (H) Moved Out of Committee 01/31/03 0100 (H) O&G RPT 6DP 1DNP 01/31/03 0100 (H) DP: FATE, CRAWFORD, CHENAULT 01/31/03 0100 (H) MCGUIRE, ROKEBERG, KOHRING 01/31/03 0100 (H) DNP: KERTTULA 01/31/03 0101 (H) FN1: ZERO(DNR) 01/31/03 0101 (H) FN2: ZERO(REV) 01/31/03 0101 (H) REFERRED TO RESOURCES 02/05/03 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124 WITNESS REGISTER REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING Alaska State Legislature Juneau, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of the House Special Committee on Oil and Gas, the sponsor of HJR 6. PETE BUIST, Appointee to the Board of Game Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Board of Game; provided background information and answered questions. SHARON McLEOD-EVERETTE, Appointee to the Board of Game Fairbanks, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Board of Game; provided background information and answered questions. RONALD J. SOMERVILLE, Appointee to the Board of Game Juneau, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Board of Game; provided background information and answered questions. TED SPRAKER, Appointee to the Board of Game Soldotna, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Board of Game; provided background information and answered questions. CLIFFORD P. JUDKINS, Appointee to the Board of Game Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified as an appointee to the Board of Game; provided background information and answered questions. ROD ARNO Wasilla, Alaska POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of the appointees to the Board of Game. ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 03-2, SIDE A Number 0001 CO-CHAIR MIKE CHENAULT called the House Resources Standing Committee meeting to order at 1:00 p.m. Representatives Chenault, Fate, Wolf, Gatto, Heinze, Lynn, Guttenberg, and Masek were present at the call to order. Representative Kerttula arrived as the meeting was in progress. HJR 6-ENDORSING ANWR LEASING CO-CHAIR CHENAULT announced that the first order of business would be HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 6, Urging the United States Congress to pass legislation to open the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska, to oil and gas exploration, development, and production. Number 0140 REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING, Alaska State Legislature, testified on behalf of the House Special Committee on Oil and Gas, the sponsor of HJR 6. He said: It's ... a resolution from the [House Special Committee] on Oil and Gas. We chose to go with that route as opposed to an individual member, because it's an all-inclusive effort; ... it's a very important piece of legislation. It's a resolution; it wouldn't have ... anything to put into effect as far as a law, but it's making a very important statement to the United States Congress, as well as the President of the United States, and other important officials that you see listed on page 2. This is a very familiar piece of legislation that we've had in the past; it's the same bill as last year that reiterates our stance on the issue of whether we should go into ANWR [Arctic National Wildlife Refuge] and open up the coastal plains for exploration, and hopefully, eventually, development - if we can find the reserves that we expect to be there. If you go through the resolution, you'll see real important points in here. It's a 1.5-million-acre area that constitutes the coastal plain, which is a very small area in all of ANWR; it's just the very northern tip on one side, so if there is any development in there, it's going to affect a very minimal area. The expected footprint, ... as far as what would be left behind if we were to develop the area, would be less than one-half of 1 percent of the coastal plain itself - only about, we predict, 2,000 to 7,000 acres of land involved. We are hopeful that we can pass this [out of the House Resources Standing Committee] and move it to the House floor, and this will be our way of sending a message to the United States Congress. As a member of the Energy Council, ... we are going to advocate strongly for ANWR again this year; we are going to travel to [Washington] D.C. for the Energy Council, and this will be ... our primary issue in advocating for the opening of the coastal plain, and hopefully we will realize some major developments that can very positively contribute to our economy, and help lessen dependence on foreign oil. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING referred to the bill packet and said it contained additional information including the substantial number of jobs that [opening ANWR] would create. Number 0373 REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked how anybody who's concerned about the future of Alaska, economic development, and energy independence for the United States of America could possibly be opposed to opening ANWR. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said the question was perplexing to him, too, and he couldn't imagine anybody being opposed to it, but he did mention there had been concerns from people living in the region about the effect on the environment and wildlife populations, mainly, the Porcupine caribou herd. He said, "We're sensitive to the environment; there's reference to that in here, that we want to develop the area in a very responsible way and not ... affect the migrations or the calving grounds ... of the herd." Another point, he said, would be to look at [the results] in Prudhoe Bay: the caribou population is healthier than it was before the [area] was developed. Representative Kohring remarked, "I've seen pictures of caribou rubbing their backs on the pipeline, and it doesn't seem to affect the calving either, so, I'm ... hopeful that we're going to see little, if no, impact on the environment there, and the concerns of those in that area, along those lines, will be mitigated." REPRESENTATIVE LYNN expressed support for HJR 6. Number 0493 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK remarked, "We've seen this before us every year now, I think this is the ninth time I've seen this resolution." She recalled questions from the press about the effort the [legislature] has put into [funding the lobbying efforts of] Arctic Power and [towards opening] ANWR, and remarked, "As history says, you have to take it step by step, and have patience, and I think overall from when we first started here ... we've made quite big steps." She continued, "I think we're highlighting more on getting [ANWR] open; I think this resolution is really important, and it plays a pretty big role in our state as far as ... how we support ANWR." REPRESENTATIVE MASEK made a reference about President Bush educating the new members of Congress, and said she thought [Alaska] needed to have this type of resolution. She talked about questioning by the public and the media of the efforts of the [legislature to open ANWR] and brought attention to a newspaper article about crises occurring around the world. She said, "In Russia, ... they're one of our biggest ... competitors as far as opening any oil development, and I know in Russia they're ... facing serious trouble as to how ... they export the oil because of the lack of a pipeline, and they're going to have [to] build new [facilities] to get the oil out." She spoke about the Venezuelan government's undergoing [large] changes and remarked, "They're the next country that we're competing with [for] ... oil development. So, I think the more that we can do today to secure and show the oil companies that ... we have a very good economy here -- and it's very safe; it's not like the other countries." She said deliberations over the resolution help with the process. She expressed her support. Number 0703 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO spoke about the Persian Gulf war, particularly, the destruction of Kuwait's oil wells upon the retreat of the Iraqi army. Referring to Iraq's leader, he remarked, "He, ... essentially, took the chance to plunge us into a nuclear winter; it wouldn't be nuclear, but the idea being that he took a risk of essentially destroying the whole ... planet as we know it. " If a similar situation were to occur, he said, all of that oil in the Middle East that [the United States] imports so much of would become unavailable for a very long period of time. Representative Gatto spoke about [the United States'] need to have access to its own secure [oil] supplies, and said due to national security, [the United States] needed to have a dependable resource within the country. Representative Gatto, referring to Representative Kohring's aforementioned trip to Washington D.C., remarked, "The one message I want to get back to Washington D.C., is, there are crazy people in the world, and they do crazy things; ... if they were to cut off our ... supply, ... we need it, we depend on it, and we can't get by without it; ... if they take it away from us, I don't know ... what will happen, but I do know we will be in severe trouble." He suggested the oil supply in the Middle East could easily be taken away from the [United States]. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING, in response to Representative Gatto, said he would take that message with him while he travels throughout Washington, D.C., and meets with various congressmen. He thanked Representative Masek for her leadership on this issue and remarked, "I know you've had this resolution yourself in the past, and we did pass the same resolution with the Twenty-Second Alaska Legislature ...." Number 0905 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG said dialogue from either the courts or Congress said that Alaska wouldn't get [royalties at the ratio of] 90:10 [in relation to the federal government] out of ANWR coastal plain development, and would go back to 50:50. He asked Representative Kohring to expand on whether there had been any more dialog on the subject. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING replied that he was not aware of any new dialog, but he would research the issue and present that information at a subsequent meeting. Noting that the bill did address that particular issue, he referred to page 3, lines 15- 19, which read: FURTHER RESOLVED that the Alaska State Legislature opposes any unilateral reduction in royalty revenue from exploration and development of the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, Alaska, and any attempt to coerce the State of Alaska into accepting less than the 90 percent of the oil, gas, and mineral royalties from the federal land in Alaska that was promised to the state at statehood. REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING indicated he might present a resolution to the House Special Committee on Oil and Gas specifically addressing that issue. Number 1089 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK moved to report HJR 6 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal notes; she asked for unanimous consent. Number 1104 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG objected for the purpose of offering an amendment to HJR 6. [Although Co-Chair Chenault called a brief at-ease, a motion was made immediately afterward, and thus the recording continued.] Number 1133 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK withdrew her motion to report HJR 6 out of committee. Number 1148 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG referred to page 1, lines 13-15, which read: WHEREAS the "1002 study area" is part of the coastal plain located within the North Slope Borough, and residents of the North Slope Borough, who are predominantly Inupiat Eskimo, are supportive of development in the "1002 study area"; and REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG talked about the Gwich'in [people's] [dependence] on the [Porcupine] caribou herd, and their opposition to opening ANWR. He suggested the Gwich'in people have a completely different position [on ANWR] than the Inupiat [people], and said the interest was in not bringing that conflict into this resolution. Representative Guttenberg offered an amendment to strike [lines 13-15]; he said he thought it would strengthen the [resolution]. Number 1205 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK objected to the amendment. She told the committee that the area being discussed is in the North Slope Borough (NSB); she said she thought it was important for [lines 13-15] to remain in the resolution because they are in support of it. Number 1230 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING, in response to Representative Guttenberg's suggested amendment, said it would be helpful to demonstrate support in the affected regions. Referring to the Gwich'in [people], he said there are people who have voiced their opposition to the resolution. He suggested, however, that the majority of residents in the area, mostly Inupiat [people], are in support of the legislation. Representative Kohring remarked, "I think that would enhance and not detract from the strength of this resolution." Number 1282 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK reminded the committee that HJR 6 would be going to Congress and the President. She offered her belief that it would delineate the process to remove lines 13-15, and that it was important for the language to remain in the resolution. Number 1324 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO, discussing the importance of making the bill accurate, referred to line 14 and suggested [amending] the sentence to say, "and the Inupiat residents of the North Slope Borough are supportive." He said the outcome would be an accurate statement because it doesn't refer to other residents, only to the ones who are supportive. Number 1376 REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING, responding to Representative Gatto, said [the proposed amendment] was a reasonable suggestion that he would not object to. REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE stated her belief that the language is fine, clear, and succinct, and said she didn't think it should be changed. REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG referred to the Gwich'in people and said they don't have oil on their land, don't live in the North Slope Borough, and don't have the resources to walk the halls of Congress. He remarked, "But those guys are back there pounding the halls of Congress on the [development of ANWR], and my point was not to have something that they can refute talk about that their resources are on the land, ... the caribou that are in the calving grounds or what they harvest." Representative Guttenberg reiterated his belief that removal of the section would be beneficial to deter any future opposition to the reference. CO-CHAIR FATE suggested that at one time the Gwich'in people had mounted an exploratory effort to find and develop hydrocarbons on their land. He said he was sympathetic to the lifestyle and wishes of the Gwich'in [people], but that there was a larger issue at stake, which is the economy and the State of Alaska, and proceeding with something that the state and the nation desperately need. Representative Fate concurred with the language as it exists in HJR 6. Number 1529 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK pointed out that the Gwich'in [people] had traveled to Washington, D.C., to lobby on this issue in the past. She referred to Sara James (ph), who she said was the forerunner on this issue; had received a lot of press and media attention; and had made a big presence in Washington, D.C. She offered her belief that the reason for ANWR not opening was due to the lobbying of the Gwich'in [people], and remarked, "I think we all know that they're on the opposite side of this issue." Representative Masek said the Gwich'in people have a right to speak out and say what they want, and that they have done so very eloquently. She commented, "We as a legislative body ... do have to look at the bigger picture ...." She noted her desire for the language to remain the same. Number 1632 REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG withdrew his amendment. Number 1644 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK moved to report HJR 6 out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal notes; she asked for unanimous consent. There being no objection, HJR 6 was reported from the House Resources Standing Committee. CONFIRMATION HEARINGS Board of Game Number 1690 CO-CHAIR CHENAULT announced that the next order of business would be the confirmation hearings on the appointment of [Pete Buist, Sharon McLeod-Everette, Ronald J. Somerville, Ted H. Spraker, and Clifford P. Judkins] to the Board of Game. [The confirmation hearing on the appointment of Michael Fleagle was deferred until February 12.] Number 1792 PETE BUIST, Appointee to the Board of Game, testified, noting that he was presently in Arizona attending a work-related fire management training course. He explained that he is a licensed hunter and trapper, and had been so all of his adult life. He said he respects nonconsumptive uses and users of Alaska's wildlife. He noted that he had been a member of the Alaska Trappers Association since its inception in 1973, and served several terms as its president, recently resigning as director. He spoke about serving on the Fairbanks Advisory Committee to the boards of fish and game for about 17 years, and serving as co-chair for the coalition for the Alaska Way of Life, which he said in 1998 directed the defeat of the initiative that would have banned wolf snaring. Mr. Buist remarked: The way I look at it is, wolves are neither bad nor good, they're just wolves, but they obviously can negatively impact ungulate populations; ... the balance of nature that we hear so much about is a series of highs and lows .... I'm ready to put the resource first, listen to the local advisory committees and the biologists, and hopefully make decisions that keep the resource first. Thank you. Number 1901 REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked Mr. Buist how he felt about [the governor's executive order] moving [the Division of Habitat and Restoration] permitting from [Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)] to the [Department of Natural Resources (DNR)]. MR. BUIST said it was his goal to keep his DNR job and his Board of Game appointment separate, and he would prefer not to address Representative Heinze's question. Number 1953 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked Mr. Buist how he felt about subsistence. MR. BUIST, in response, said he thinks subsistence is a very valid, and probably the most important, use of Alaska's wildlife resources. He said he has some problems with the way subsistence is defined and managed, but he feels that the use of wildlife for food, in most cases, trumps wildlife for tourism reasons, and some of the nonconsumptive arguments. REPRESENTATIVE MASEK, referring to Mr. Buist's resume, said she thought he was really qualified, and acknowledged that he had been in the state for quite a while. She asked him for his position on the Tier II permit [hunt supplements] for moose and caribou; on GMU [Game Management Unit] 13 for the Nelchina [caribou] herd; on GMU 15 for moose in the Matanuska Valley area; and on whether he thought those permits needed to be worked on or was satisfied with how [the process] was working. MR. BUIST, in response, said in general, as far as Tier II permits are concerned, he had some hesitations about how those permits are administered. He said the applicant's residence location is not supposed to be a criterion for state allocation of resources and yet it still seems to be, and he suggested there is probably a better way to administer [Tier II permits]. REPRESENTATIVE MASEK, noting that she had provided testimony to the Board of Game last year, said with the new administration and new board appointees, she felt [Tier II permitting] was one of the areas that needed to be focused on. She expressed appreciation to Mr. Buist for taking his time to serve on the board, and said with the [population] of the state growing, the needs are going to grow. She remarked, "With the impacted areas, ... with our population with our moose and caribou, I think we need to address it, and try to fine tune it and fix it up, so that it would address and meet every game management unit in the state, so that our Alaskan residents can have their moose and caribou." MR. BUIST, in response, said it sounded as if he and Representative Masek were working toward the same [objective]. REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG, noting Mr. Buist's mention of the nonconsumptive user's being represented, asked Mr. Buist to expand on that and to explain how he envisioned it happening on the board. MR. BUIST remarked, "I don't see why I can't be respectful and supportive of nonconsumptive users; ... very often meat on the table trumps peace of mind for people who don't want anything dead." Number 2196 CO-CHAIR FATE thanked Mr. Buist and others like him for the time spent in trappers associations and other associations, furthering the end of true conservation and the real management of animals in this state. He remarked, "Thank you for literally sacrificing yourself to our committee and to the job ahead of you." Number 2271 SHARON McLEOD-EVERETTE, Appointee, Board of Game, testified. Noting that she is pretty much a lifelong Alaskan, except she missed being born in the state by about 11 months. She said she grew up out on the Glenn Highway at mile 153.5, in a rural area; her family hunted and fished to eat; she went through the Glennallen school system; her mother was her teacher during the time the state was a territory because there wasn't a school near her home; and she continued on to [attend] the University of Alaska [Fairbanks (UAF)]. She remarked, "I learned to eat beef in the commons; it was a unique experience after having grown up on moose, caribou, grayling, and Copper River reds." Ms. McLeod-Everette explained that she graduated from college with a teaching degree in 1971, but she never put it to work; she went to work at the Department of Transportation and Public Facilities (DOT&PF); working in the right-of-way, planning, and research section, where she ran a statewide education and information program. She said she went back to school at UAF and earned a professional writing master's degree in 1993; during that time, she continued hunting and fishing; in the late 1970s she [worked] as a cook in a hunting camp and received an assistant [hunting] guide's license sometime around 1982 or 1983; and she received a big-game hunting guide's license in 1989. Number 2353 MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE said she had been a member of the International Right of Way Association (IRWA) and had held both international and local chairmanships; is a lifetime member of the UAF Alumni Association; and is a member of the National Rifle Association (NRA), the North American Hunting Club, the Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), Midnight Sun Flycasters, and Nordic Ski Club [Fairbanks (NSCF)]. She mentioned that she is involved in the Becoming an Outdoors' Woman (BOW) program across the state, which is managed by [ADF&G], and said she is on the steering committee for BOW and is an instructor for various [activities] including: introduction to big-game hunting; field dressing; backpack chef; introduction to fishing; rafting; and moose calling. She talked about helping the Trapper's Association out with kids' night activities, and said recently she had gotten involved on the Fairbanks literacy council advisory board. Ms. McLeod-Everette talked about working with the UAF master planning subcommittee for traffic and circulation. REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG highlighted the BOW program and thanked Ms. McLeod-Everette for her involvement. He remarked, "I think that's great, and I've heard great things about it." MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE, in response, told Representative Guttenberg that the [BOW program] was one of her favorite [activities] and remarked, "There is nothing like seeing the 'aha' when somebody who's not been exposed to something in the outdoors gets it." REPRESENTATIVE WOLF commended Ms. McLeod-Everette on her resume, and asked her how she felt about the governor's intent to streamline the permitting process, and whether she supported "a new face for [ADF&G], as far as bringing new ideas into the department." He noted that a commissioner for ADF&G had not been [confirmed]. MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE, referring to the permitting process, said she thought there was always room for streamlining and doing things better, but she didn't know what to think about moving permitting from ADF&G to DNR; she didn't know enough about the process to know how dramatically it would affect either department. She talked about the governor's intention and remarked, "I think his heart's in the right place trying to streamline the permitting process," but said there were people more versed in it than her and that she would wait to see the [outcome]. Number 2530 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked Ms. McLeod-Everette if she thought "new blood" in the department would be beneficial for running ADF&G. MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE replied, "Absolutely, I think so." REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked Ms. McLeod-Everette if she would be open to the [Division of Habitat and Restoration's] being moved to DNR if it would benefit the permitting [process]. MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE, in response, reiterated that her knowledge about the process and the impacts were limited, and that she could not speak about it. REPRESENTATIVE WOLF clarified that his question was about streamlining the permitting process rather than about moving the [Division of Habitat and Restoration]. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO, referring to Ms. McLeod-Everette's resume, asked her if she had a Master of Arts degree in professional writing. MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE replied, "Correct." REPRESENTATIVE GATTO voiced his assumption that Ms. McLeod- Everette would probably be a watchdog when regulations were written and remarked, "Clarity would be available to all of us, and there would be no misunderstandings." Number 2630 MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE, in response, said clarity is a very key issue and usually she is a particularly picky person about it; however, she pointed out that there are people who may be above her in the process that have more say about the legal [aspects] of writing [regulations]. She remarked, "But you are absolutely correct, I believe in clarity." REPRESENTATIVE GATTO, referring to her resume, talked about her involvement in snowshoeing, snow machining, cross-country skiing, and hiking, and suggested that many of the activities Ms. McLeod-Everette is involved in are "opposed" to each other. He remarked, "We know the wars that go on between cross-country skiers and snowmachiners ...," and asked her how she would resolve the issue of opposing uses. MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE remarked: I think what you look at is the balance ... of the activities, and you look at the primary use. For example, you're talking about closing some waters, perhaps, to motorized uses, in deference to strictly fly-fishing. I think you have to analyze the entire situation, look at what the full uses of the area are; there may be other uses that take precedence over the singular use of strictly fly-fishing. I love fly- fishing; ... there are lots of places you can do it where there is motorized access and it's not a problem. A lot of my activities are done in concert with one another, so, ... I see balance in a lot of this. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO pointed out that Ms. McLeod-Everette was a published author and asked her if she has written books that deal with outdoor activities. MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE said yes, the book she published talks about growing up on the Glenn Highway and about doing some guiding. She mentioned that she had written for work related newsletters and technical journals while working at DOT&PF; she had to translate highly technical research reports into something that a sixth or eighth grade student would understand. REPRESENTATIVE GATTO remarked, "Perhaps you should have been a school teacher." MS. McLEOD-EVERETTE, highlighting the fact that she had grown up without electricity or running water, explained that the reason she didn't become a teacher was because when she [graduated] from college, the only teaching jobs available were in areas with no electricity or running water, and she had discovered that she liked showers. Number 2816 RONALD J. SOMERVILLE, Appointee to the Board of Game, testified, noting that he has been a resident of Alaska for over 60 years, and his parents had moved to Craig when he was a year old. He talked about receiving a bachelor's degree at Humboldt State University and his master's degree at the University of Montana. Mr. Somerville said he had an opportunity to work in Washington, D.C., for a year and a half, which he said, "Was really [an] education in itself." He explained that he didn't like commuting in Washington, D.C., and wanted to come back to Alaska, so he did. Mr. Somerville remarked, "My dad was a commercial fisherman, and thus I became a commercial fisherman; most of my family, both sides, my mom and dad, were fairly large, so we had lots of relatives in the area; we were active subsistence users." He talked about his stepfather's being a logger for a number of years, and said he also had participated in that activity. He remarked: As you might expect, that obviously overlapped a period precluding statehood, and my dad was an active participant in the process of fighting for statehood; he was a good friend of both [E.L.] Bartlett and [Ernest] Gruening, who used to come to Craig [and] stay at our place, so when I grew up I became a strong "state's righter," needless to say. When I graduated from college, I went to work for the [Alaska] Department of Fish and Game - didn't really want to work anywhere else. Luckily, I chose wildlife management rather than fisheries; I decided I didn't want to step back into that arena. I must somewhat blame Carl Rosier for that; ... he was the biologist in Ketchikan at the time I was fishing, and I decided that there wasn't much challenge to his job, because we wanted to fish and he just kept saying no. Back in those days ... we went from [a] 33 million ... [catch] in Alaska at the beginning of statehood to well over 175 million; ... [it turns out] Carl was right. Number 2921 MR. SOMERVILLE CONTINUED: I didn't see much future in fisheries back in those days. I started as a temporary seasonal [employee] in the [Alaska] Department of Fish and Game - worked in research management. I eventually had the opportunity to step to [a] regional supervisor position in Anchorage - Anchorage running from the Canadian border all the way out to the end of the Aleutians; it's a fairly large area, and I enjoyed that job very much because I got to see a good part of the state. I eventually made a big error in my life: I volunteered for [former Governor] Jay Hammond's (d) (2) task force in 1974, and spent the next four years faring between Anchorage and Washington, D.C., Later, [I] became director of - it was in the game division - called wildlife conservation, and I remained in that position until I retired. I then came back at the request of Governor Hickel and went back to work for fish and game in 1991, and worked for four years; I occupied a deputy commissioner position for part of that time. I have worked for the Wildlife Legislative Fund when I was back in Washington [D.C.] for a year and a half. I enjoyed it very much; the opportunity to work on ... international issues in wildlife was new to me and I enjoyed that, but I didn't enjoy Washington, D.C., [Tape changed sides mid-sentence.] TAPE 03-2, SIDE B Number 2985 MR. SOMERVILLE continued: I've also volunteered for activities with the department, things like the unit for brown bear management plan; king salmon management plan, and things like that representing what I considered the users of the state, and I've enjoyed that activity. REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked, "How do you feel about new blood in the department or bringing individuals up through the department to be the new commissioner or selecting one of those individuals as commissioner?" MR. SOMERVILLE remarked: Especially with the phenomenal change between the previous administration and this administration, ... you've got to make major changes, because ... in order to get what you want from this department, which I think is to reinstate it as one of the classic, top, scientifically well-credited, well-respected organizations throughout the world and the United States ,... you've got to change things, and you've got to have leadership that falls in step with what the governor wants to do, and there's got to be some new blood. I agree with that; ... it doesn't mean you go down and you get rid of all your appointed positions, but you assess them selectively and ... make the appropriate appointments. I believe you always hire somebody smarter than you .... Number 2893 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK remarked, "I am glad that your name is on this board; I really appreciate your willingness ... to get involved with it. I know this board is a pretty crucial one to the makeup of our fish and game here in the state." Representative Masek suggested that subsistence would be addressed during the session, and asked Mr. Somerville what he thought about it, and how he felt about amending [Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act] (ANILCA). She mentioned sacrificing Alaska's constitution and the rights for the resources for all Alaskans. She asked Mr. Somerville if he thought changes [to ANILCA] should also be made in Congress. MR. SOMERVILLE, noting that he had worked for eight years as a resource consultant to both the House and Senate majorities, said he did not ask for this job. He was on the transition team and made recommendations of a variety of people for the Board of Fisheries and Board of Game appointments. His name was not on that list, but the governor personally asked him to submit his name. Mr. Somerville remarked, "I am in front of you because I made that commitment," and said he is also committed to doing everything possible to meet the needs of Alaskans - consumptive and nonconsumptive users. He remarked: I really respect the advisory committee system; I'm really ... respectful of the people out there (indisc.) working everywhere in the state, all the way up to Point Hope; I spent a winter out there, and I am appreciative of cultures, subsistence uses, [and] our resources. I'm respectful of all a variety of, particularly, the Native people. I was raised by the Tlingits, virtually, in Craig. Number 2778 MR. SOMERVILLE continued: I volunteered for [former Governor] Jay Hammond's task force on (d) (2) [lands under ANCSA], Harris (ph) and I went out to the villages to get some views from the villagers and what they'd like to see. Jay Hammond gave me one mission when I went back to Washington [D.C.] as a representative of ... [ADF&G]; he says ... when we leave, I want to make sure that we have done nothing to diminish the state's authority to manage its fish and wildlife, and that's where I got into trouble, because I did not agree with what the federal government was doing in ANILCA. I brought that to the attention of the governor, a variety of processes, which, I'm sure, most of you are aware of, and I don't think we're going to meet the subsistence needs of Alaskans. We're going to discriminate against 40 to 45 percent of the people I respect, the Native people who live in the urban areas. We are pitting Alaskans against each other, and it's just a terrible, terrible situation. I'm going to try again to see if there isn't some way we can help solve those problems; obviously, a board member by himself is not going to do that. MR. SOMERVILLE remarked, "I've got something with me to illustrate my commitment to that, my pledge to ... Governor Hammond." He read a letter dated April 18, 1978, from the Department of Law to the commissioners of DNR and ADF&G: There is no qualification that the program required by the Secretary to be constitutional under state law as interpreted by final rulings of Alaska Supreme Court. It is not difficult to envision the situation with the Secretary under Title VII, ... Title VIII, or (indisc.) might require the state to adopt or change some of the state's subsistence management program, which would be unconstitutional and thus impossible to implement and enforce under state law. MR. SOMERVILLE said prior to ANILCA's passage in 1980, the Department of Law "was telling us what was in Title VIII was probably, more than likely, unconstitutional, that we were going to get into exactly the situation we're in right now." He said, in light of that, he did not support the federal law and that's what's got him "crosswised" with the Native community. He remarked, "A lot of them, believe it or not, are still friends of mine, and ... it's got me into trouble through the years in discussing subsistence; ... honestly, I believe in subsistence, true subsistence, as much as anybody sitting here or listening ...." Number 2664 REPRESENTATIVE MASEK, referring to Tier II permits, asked Mr. Somerville if the issue could be addressed in the next two years. She said the moose and caribou population in the Interior is growing and she has had numerous complaints from constituents in the [Willow] area about the permitting process. She suggested the complaints would increase over time and indicated she is interested in resolving the issue to make it a fair and equitable process. Representative Masek, referring to constituents' concerns, said the [permitting process] was based on zip codes and the [applicant's place of residency]. She explained that many people have lived in the Interior for many years and "they've established that usage, and all of a sudden they were disqualified for it." She reiterated that the process needs to be reviewed and asked Mr. Somerville if he thought a review could be accomplished during this session. MR. SOMERVILLE, in response, said he hadn't seen all of the details, but he thought there are "some things that are broken there." He remarked: I've always said, in terms of Fairbanks, Anchorage, and the Nelchina Basin, which I am really familiar with, we have a terrible situation on moose and caribou there, particularly moose - the population's extremely low. Hunting just isn't like it was in the early 1970s or late 1960s, and thus this is the result of these populations declining, and it increased more of a conflict, which has resulted in exactly what you're saying, is that there's less permits available at [the] Tier II level. But it also is an illustration: ... if you look at the people who are getting Tier II permits, it appears to be, in a general sense, the people who can stretch the truth farthest get the permits, and the people who have relied on them, somehow, are being shuffled out; ... that's just a general observation. Number 2553 MR. SOMERVILLE talked about the press's view that he is against subsistence. He said: I want to make it clear that you people are the policymakers of the state; the Board of Game, the Board of Fisheries implement those [and] they have to have some discretion how they do that .... You've established a subsistence priority, which [includes] the Tier II process, which the boards are obligated to implement. I can't blame the boards, but I do think they have some discretion on going back to try to fix some of those things. Some of the problems there are not going to go away until the laws change, if that's what you want. REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE, referring to Mr. Somerville's resume, asked him why he changed positions from deputy commissioner to special assistant in 1993. MR. SOMERVILLE replied: At the time, McKie Campbell was working on a special assignment with the governor's office on subsistence and other things, but that was when it was made, and that they essentially came to an end, and they wanted to move him someplace. I volunteered to vacate my deputy commissioner's spot so that he could occupy that position, but they kept me on as special assistant, and I kind of did what I was doing anyway. REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE asked Mr. Somerville if he supported moving the [Division of Habitat and Restoration ] to DNR, and also if he would protect the albino [bear] in Juneau. Number 2456 MR. SOMERVILLE recalled a conversation with Jim Clark in which Mr. Clark told him the worst thing he ever did was let [Mr. Somerville] talk the governor into not moving the Habitat [and Restoration Division]. He explained: I came at the request of [former Governor] Hickel; ... they appointed Carl Rosier as commissioner; ... we were under a lot of pressure to move habitat .... I'm of a philosophy that anything in government will work if you want to, people really have committed to doing that .... We talked to the governor and said let us do an internal review and find out if ... the accusations are accurate and what can be done to fix it. So, I wrote; ... Frank Rue helped - he was the director of habitat. We interviewed industry people ... across the state. We did ... a fairly exhaustive personal interview; it wasn't a public-hearing-type problem, but we went to people we had any communications with about habitat, and we found that [in] ... some places in the state it was working very well, and Al Ott (ph) in Fairbanks, well respected by the mining and the oil and gas industry, does he agree with them all the time? No, but are they able to work with him? Absolutely, he's very positive. MR. SOMERVILLE said in 1992 he issued a report for the [Division of Habitat and Restoration] recommending major changes, which were implemented. He explained that people he knew in the industry had said [the changes] worked very well. He remarked, "The problem has been, ... had habitat stuck ... to what we concocted back in 1992, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but apparently they didn't. Apparently, a lot of things went on [that the] division ... had no business getting into. " He said he had always been critical about the fact that when other departments do not do their job, the pressure comes back on the permitting biologists in ADF&G to pick up the slack. He remarked, "It came all the time when I was deputy [commissioner], that DEC doesn't enforce their water quality standards, they run to [ADF&G] under Title 16 or the [Alaska Forest Resources and Practices Act] to do DEC's job, and we kept telling [them] that's not your statutory responsibility; you can't do that." Number 2348 MR. SOMERVILLE talked about the appeals process and remarked, "I think we stuck to that, and I think had they done that, it might have worked." Referring to [the proposed move of the Division of Habitat and Restoration], he said, if there's a major problem and the governor's convinced it will not be fixed, then "we've got to give it a try." Mr. Somerville explained that he talked with the [governor] about leaving some of the functions of the [Division of Habitat and Restoration] in ADF&G and said he thought [those functions] operate very well there. He explained that he helped create the [Division of Habitat and Restoration]; back when he worked for the division of game, there had been several similar [permitting] positions in other divisions, and the process was a mess until someone suggested combining [the various permitting positions into one division]. He said it made sense, it was done, and it had come a long way since its creation. REPRESENTATIVE HEINZE reiterated her question about the albino bear. MR. SOMERVILLE remarked, "My general tendency is, you can't have closed areas around a lot of areas without creating problems; ... I'm sympathetic for a variety of reasons - the protection of some unique resources that there's no other way out." He said he would have to look at the details. Number 2258 REPRESENTATIVE LYNN expressed appreciation for Mr. Somerville's position on subsistence, and suggested that if a person never takes a strong position on a controversial issue, then that person is not doing his or her job. He inquired about Mr. Somerville's short time in the Air Force. MR. SOMERVILLE, in response, said he had received an honorary discharge. He spoke about his initial experience and said, "At that time, the Air Force had too many pilots and they offered us two-year discharges for a variety of family reasons, which my dad was an alcoholic; I decided to leave the Air Force and came back to Alaska and ... went back to school, and it worked out okay for me." He said he would have liked to have stayed in [the Air Force], and had he been sent to Bainbridge, Florida, he would probably still be in the Air Force. REPRESENTATIVE LYNN thanked Mr. Somerville for [his service in the Air Force]. MR. SOMERVILLE added that every summer he received a request from the Air Force asking him if he wanted to go to Anchorage for training, but he always reluctantly declined. Number 2148 REPRESENTATIVE GATTO expressed concerns about resource management and said it was "one of the difficulties we're having now." He suggested the resource depends a lot more on the habitat for its own survival, and that the habitat seems to be available. Representative Gatto expressed concerns about the moose population and difficulties in breeding, attributed to a low moose population and the [animals'] being separated by great distance. He remarked, "Not only do they suffer from predation, but, consequently, an inability to breed." Representative Gatto referred to the passenger pigeon and suggested [it became extinct] because the numbers were so thin that they were unable to follow their natural instincts to find each other and mate. He expressed similar concerns about the moose and caribou populations and asked whether such a scenario was ever considered. MR. SOMERVILLE, in response, said years of bull [moose] hunting in the Matanuska Valley drove the population down to four bulls per 100 cows. He said he and a committee member's father had fought over cow moose seasons for years because there were a lot of cows but not enough bulls. Mr. Somerville said the focus was getting people to divert their attention by taking a few cows and keeping within carrying capacity to raise the bull:cow ratio, [as a result] productivity went back up again. He said there's a variety of places in the state where that similar situation starts to occur. He offered the Nelchina Basin as a good example of driving the bull:cow ratio down and having them disperse over large areas during the breeding season. Mr. Somerville explained that [the reason for the low population] is not because the cows don't breed; they go into second estrus and breed the second time, and the calves go into the winter in very poor condition, are very small, and usually perish. He said it is a legitimate concern and depends on the size of the area they occupy and the species involved. For instance, caribou will still participate in their movements regardless of the size of the caribou herd and they can generally find each other during the season. He said the second estrus becomes a major problem. Number 1957 TED SPRAKER, Appointee to the Board of Game, testified, noting that he could not be in Juneau in person because he was in Aniak attending the central Kuskokwim moose management planning effort. He mentioned that the effort had been insightful for him and noted that many key issues had been discussed. Mr. Spraker said he was raised in Wyoming and had completed his schooling at the University of Wyoming, earning an undergraduate degree in wildlife management and a master's degree in range management. He noted that he has lived in Alaska since shortly after completing graduate school in May 1973. Mr. Spraker said he is 54 years old, is married to Elaina Spraker, and has three children; his 23-year-old son works for Intel in Phoenix, Arizona, and his two stepchildren, Kyle and Ashley, are ages 12 and 14. He said his family is very outdoors-oriented; all of the members of his family hunt and fish, are very active in hunting, and do quite a bit of fishing during the summer. Mr. Spraker mentioned that he does quite a bit of trapping with Kyle as his trapping partner. He said he recently retired after working for 28 years as a wildlife biologist at ADF&G and noted that Mr. Somerville was instrumental in hiring him in 1974 when he first started with the state. Number 1808 MR. SPRAKER said he felt he had accomplished a lot of things for the betterment of wildlife management and the different users and had been involved with a variety of projects over his career with ADF&G that had really made a difference. He talked about a project in which 80 caribou were moved to the Kenai Peninsula and said a couple of years ago that herd numbered 800. Mr. Spraker said he thought that was a real change, something positive that he was glad to be a part of. He suggested that he was instrumental, back in the early 1980s, in recognizing that something had to be done on the Kenai Peninsula about the moose hunting. He mentioned that bull:cow ratios get very low, that cows have to move to find bulls, and second-estrus breeding. Mr. Spraker said [ADF&G] worked with the advisory committee and members of the public to put together the Selective Harvest Program on the Kenai Peninsula. Although various aspects of the program were used in other parts of the state, the Kenai Peninsula was the first place that put the whole program together as far as harvesting some of the small and larger bulls. He said that program has restored the bull:cow ratio and the health of the moose population; because of the success, it has been used in other parts of the state. Number 1699 MR. SPRAKER said he has been a lifetime member of NRA for about 25 years and has been an official measurer for the Boone and Crockett Club for about 15 years, which he said amounts to only 6-10 animals measured per year. He talked about being a hunter- education instructor for about 15 years, working with the department and since retirement; he said it is one of the things that he has been very interested in. He said youth hunts are extremely important to him. He and his daughter participated in a youth hunt last fall and she got a moose; it was an extremely exciting time for both of them. He talked about achieving various awards throughout the years and said the most important award that has meant a great deal to him is the lifetime conservation achievement award from the Safari Club International. He noted that he was also a member, and remarked, "That meant a lot to me because you look back on what you've done for the last almost 30 years, and it's nice to see that you've accomplished things that helped the resource, helped the users, and people appreciated it, and that was very important to me." MR. SPRAKER talked about his hobbies - hunting, fishing, and trapping - and said he considers viewing to be something very important to the state. He said he is a viewer for 11.5 months of the year and a pretty avid hunter for the other few weeks. He said he had watched the Board of Game process during his entire career with ADF&G and is really anxious to see some things done under the new administration. Mr. Spraker suggested there is a strong commitment to doing good things for the resource and the users. He said he is getting a firsthand view of that by being in Aniak and talking with the local people, understanding their needs, and seeing what needs to be done to help the users and the resource. Number 1549 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked Mr. Spraker, "How do you feel about new blood in the department [for the] commissioner and/or do you support bringing someone up from within the department." Number 1515 MR. SPRAKER replied, "With this administration, ... I think we need some new blood, I think we need some new thinking; ... we certainly need people that are willing to look at new ideas and bring some new thoughts to the table ...." REPRESENTATIVE MASEK told Mr. Spraker she was glad to see that he had accepted his appointment to the Board of Game and commended him for his involvement in changing the bag limit for moose from an "any bull" program to a Selective Harvest System. Representative Masek referred to the last paragraph of Mr. Spraker's resume, which read in part [original punctuation provided]: I also believe that under this new administration the Board will be allowed to make needed changes to benefit wildlife populations and their habitats, and a variety of users across the state. REPRESENTATIVE MASEK said she thought his comments were really important and noted the importance of ensuring that the board continues to strive, adopt, and make needed changes. Number 1395 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked Mr. Spraker for some examples of things he thought should be happening. MR. SPRAKER remarked: One of the things that's close at hand ... is the meeting that I'm involved in now; ... I've been listening to the local concerns; ... I know we've talked several times and you've asked other people about Tier II and subsistence and so forth. One of the ways I think Tier II needs to be addressed, instead of continually restricting people: like others have said, whoever's the most creative in the writing usually gets the Tier II permits, and maybe people that are much more deserving don't get the permit because they're not willing to stretch the truth on their need of the resource or direct dependence and so forth on the resource. One of the things that I would really like to see is, I'd like to see the state take a very strong and aggressive stand as far as predator management, and that's the clear picture out here. MR. SPRAKER continued: There's clear evidence that the moose population has declined rapidly. It was pretty much triggered ... following 1996, when land-and-shoot [hunting of predators] was halted across Alaska, and talking to the local people here, in the next four or five years, the moose population declined rapidly. I asked the question about weather, because weather ... can kill more moose, just using moose as [an] example, but weather can be really detrimental on a moose population, and there was some discussion of one bad winter in the early 1990s, ... along the lower Kuskokwim or central Kuskokwim area, but everyone said ... we need someone to step up and do something as far as managing predators, and I'm not just talking about wolves; I'm talking about the high number of black bears, a fairly dense brown bear population, and, of course, wolves as well. You can't just manage predators. You have to have adequate habitat. That's something else I'd like to ... look into, and, of course, fish and game has done a good job of, probably, putting that information together; ... I haven't had a chance to really look at it yet, but we also need to look at the number of hunters here, because hunters make an impact. One of the things that I am really concerned with, and this kind of bears some interest in the subsistence arena, is ... the proliferation of guides in Unit 19; it's one of the comments I'm ... hearing at all the meetings here, is that even if we did a lot to increase the numbers of moose, the guides would build up, and basically, continually take more moose, ... because more guides would build up in this area. Number 1185 MR. SPRAKER continued: I think they've gone from somewhere around 40 guides to 80 or 90 guides right now in Unit 19, and [the] same thing with transporters. So, those are some of the issues that I would really like to look at ... if I was a member of the Board of Game; I'd like to look at management of predators; I'd like to look at which users are getting these moose; I am very interested [in] local people having not a clear priority, but, certainly, benefits and local benefits and so forth, so they basically have a little better chance of getting a moose, especially out here in some of these villages where there's some real, true subsistence. Number 1084 CLIFFORD P. JUDKINS, Appointee to the Board of Game, testified, noting that he had moved to Alaska more than 40 years ago and had previously served in the [Air Force] with Mr. Somerville. He said he had a bachelor's degree in wildlife management and had worked in Anchorage with the greater Anchorage health district before the borough was formed; after the borough was formed he became director of the Greater Anchorage Area Borough Department of Environmental Quality. He said he left [Anchorage] after 10 years, went down to Moose Pass, and built Crown Point Lodge, which he operated for about 16 years. Mr. Judkins talked about serving on the Seward advisory committee, and said he was also the chairman a few times. He said he left [Moose Pass], moved to Wasilla, and was the owner and operator of Wasilla Mini-Storage until he sold it and retired in 1998. MR. JUDKINS said he had been on the fish and game advisory committee in [Wasilla] for about six years and had served as the chairman for the past year; he just stepped down as chairman when he was appointed to the Board of Game. He said he was excited about being on the board and that he had gone to board of fish and game meetings for about 30 years and had testified more times than he could recall. He remarked, "[I] was always frustrated that you can get up there and testify and they'd go on with their business and wouldn't listen to what you said, it seemed like." He said it would be interesting to be on the "other side of the shoe, so to speak." Mr. Judkins, referring to his wife, said she had lived in the state most of her life, and was raised in Fairbanks and Kodiak; her father was chief of police in Kodiak in the 1950s and 1960s. He said his wife currently lives in Wasilla with him, and their daughter lives in North Pole. Number 0920 REPRESENTATIVE WOLF asked, "How do you feel about new blood in the department as a commissioner or bringing someone from within the department?" Number 0903 MR. JUDKINS said he thought the department needed new blood. He talked about attending board meetings for the last eight years and his disappointment with the performance. He remarked, "While the guys are doing their job under the administration they're in, I think we've got new ideas and need new people there." He said the department needed to get wildlife management credentials and get it reestablished as the top notch department in the nation. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked Mr. Judkins what types of things he would be championing as a board member. MR. JUDKINS, referring to Tier II, said a lot of people in the [Matanuska-Susitna area] hunt or would like to hunt the Nelchina caribou herd in Unit 13, and there were about 18 proposals by citizens who were upset with the process of choosing who could hunt there and who couldn't. Mr. Judkins said he thought the [process] needed to be revised, but added that he didn't have the answers right now, other than to just throw it out and go to a drawing - but nobody likes that either. He suggested it was a problem that needs to be dealt with and said the other major problem is dealing with predators. Mr. Judkins explained that managing habitat, predators, and hunters can be done to influence wildlife populations, and suggested that not much had been done about predators. He said there had been three or four predator-management plans that had gone through [BOG] in the past three or four years, but none of them had been implemented. Mr. Judkins suggested that those plans need to be reviewed and implemented where they are still feasible. REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if "we" had gone to Tier II on the Nelchina river. MR. JUDKINS said the Nelchina caribou herd went to Tier II a number of years ago, and the moose herd is "teetering" on the balance right now. All that is needed is 600 bulls there for subsistence purposes, he said, and "we're" just right about half of that. He suggested it may [reach that number] in the next year. Number 0713 ROD ARNO, testified. Noting that he thought the governor had made some excellent choices, he said he knows five of the [appointees] personally and knows they have sincere interests in subsistence hunters, whether local or urban; in nonconsumptive viewers of wildlife; and in sports hunters. Mr. Arno acknowledged that he didn't personally know Sharon McLeod- Everette but said she is, as a big-game guide, "representing an industry that has over 100 years of history in Alaska of successfully operating, and, obviously, under sustained yield." He suggested the [big-game industry] pays for 80 percent of wildlife conservation's budget. He offered his belief that the criticism [that there is] an unbalanced board is unjust, and said as long as there are individuals who don't believe that viewing and hunting of the same populations are compatible, there's no middle ground, and conflict with those people will continue. Number 0584 CO-CHAIR CHENAULT asked if there was additional public testimony; none was offered. CO-CHAIR CHENAULT offered his belief that the governor had done a good job [in nominating] the appointees, and said he thought Mr. Somerville said it best when he said one should hire people smarter than oneself. He said he believed it was the committee's duty to pass [the appointees] on for confirmation. Number 0520 CO-CHAIR FATE remarked, "As the years have gone by, and I've lived in this state a long time, I don't believe that I have ever seen a better slate going to the Board of Game than I have today." He congratulated not only the appointees, but also the governor for taking the time to "sometimes personally interview these people and select such a wonderful slate, and I really truthfully mean that." [No formal motion was made, but the appointments of Pete Buist, Sharon McLeod-Everette, Ronald J. Somerville, Ted H. Spraker, and Clifford P. Judkins were treated as advanced from committee. The confirmation of Michael Fleagle would be heard on February 12.] ADJOURNMENT There being no further business before the committee, the House Resources Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:30 p.m.