Legislature(1997 - 1998)

01/30/1997 01:07 PM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                        January 30, 1997                                       
                           1:07 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Bill Hudson, Co-Chairman                                       
 Representative Scott Ogan, Co-Chairman                                        
 Representative Ramona Barnes                                                  
 Representative Fred Dyson                                                     
 Representative Joe Green                                                      
 Representative William K. ("Bill") Williams                                   
 Representative Irene Nicholia                                                 
 Representative Reggie Joule                                                   
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Beverly Masek, Vice Chair                                      
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 12                                                 
 Urging the Secretary of the Interior to conduct competitive oil and           
 gas lease sales within the National Petroleum Reserve in Alaska.              
                                                                               
      -  MOVED HJR 12 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                         
                                                                               
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 46                                                           
 "An Act relating to mining; and providing for an effective date."             
                                                                               
      -  MOVED CSHB 46(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                   
                                                                               
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 26                                                           
 "An Act relating to big game tags for wolves; and providing for an            
 effective date."                                                              
                                                                               
      -  MOVED HB 26 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                          
                                                                               
 * HOUSE BILL NO. 17                                                           
 "An Act establishing the Department of Natural Resources as the               
 platting authority in certain areas of the state; relating to                 
 subdivisions and dedications; and providing for an effective date."           
                                                                               
      -  MOVED CSHB 17(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                   
                                                                               
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HJR 12                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: LEASES IN NATL PETROLEUM RESERVE                                 
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) GREEN, Hodgins, Ryan, Bunde, Ogan               
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                 ACTION                                   
 01/15/97        66    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/15/97        66    (H)   OIL & GAS, RESOURCES                              
 01/23/97              (H)   O&G AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124                       
 01/23/97              (H)   MINUTE(O&G)                                       
 01/24/97       135    (H)   O&G RPT 7DP                                       
 01/24/97       135    (H)   DP: BUNDE, OGAN, BRICE, RYAN, KEMPLEN             
 01/24/97       135    (H)   HODGINS, ROKEBERG                                 
 01/24/97       135    (H)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE (LAA)                            
 01/24/97       135    (H)   REFERRED TO RESOURCES                             
 01/24/97       139    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): RYAN, BUNDE                         
 01/27/97       153    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): OGAN                                
 01/30/97              (H)   RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                        
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 46                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: MINING CLAIMS ON PUBLIC LANDS                                    
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KELLY, THERRIAULT                               
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                 ACTION                                   
 01/13/97        40    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        40    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        40    (H)   RESOURCES                                         
 01/23/97              (H)   RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                        
 01/23/97              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 01/30/97              (H)   RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                        
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 26                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: BIG GAME TAGS FOR WOLVES                                         
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) OGAN                                            
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                 ACTION                                   
 01/13/97        34    (H)   PREFILE RELEASE 1/3/97                            
 01/13/97        34    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        34    (H)   RESOURCES, FINANCE                                
 01/23/97              (H)   RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
 01/23/97              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 01/30/97              (H)   RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                        
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 17                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: DNR APPROVAL OF PLATS IN UNORG BOROUGH                           
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES                                           
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE      JRN-PG                 ACTION                                   
 01/13/97        31    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        31    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        31    (H)   RESOURCES, FINANCE                                
 01/23/97              (H)   RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                        
 01/23/97              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 01/30/97              (H)   RES AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                        
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 JEFFREY A. LOGAN, Legislative Assistant                                       
    to Representative Joe Green                                                
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 118                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4931                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Assisted with sponsor statement for HJR 12.              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY                                                     
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 411                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-2327                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor statement for HB 46.                   
                                                                               
 JULES TILESTON, Director                                                      
 Division of Mining and Water Management                                       
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 3601 C Street, Suite 800                                                      
 Anchorage, Alaska  99503-5935                                                 
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided department's position and answered              
                      questions regarding HB 46.                               
                                                                               
 BAERENT STRANDBERG                                                            
 Strandberg Mineral Services                                                   
 P.O. Box 874296                                                               
 Wasilla, Alaska  99687                                                        
 Telephone:  (907) 373-5016                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Asked questions about HB 46.                             
                                                                               
 MICHELE DRUMMOND, Volunteer                                                   
 Alaska Environmental Lobby                                                    
 P.O. Box 22151                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska  99802                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 463-3366                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 26.                        
                                                                               
 WAYNE REGELIN, Director                                                       
 Division of Wildlife Conservation                                             
 Department of Fish and Game                                                   
 P.O. Box 25526                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska  99802-5526                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4190                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided department's position and answered              
                      questions regarding HB 26.                               
                                                                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES                                                
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 102                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3743                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented sponsor statement for HB 17.                   
                                                                               
 PAT KALEN, Chairman, Alaska Section                                           
 American Congress on Surveying and Mapping; and                               
 Chairman, Legislative Committee                                               
 Alaska Society for Professional Land Surveyors                                
 1041 Chena Ridge Road                                                         
 Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 479-2656                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 17.                           
                                                                               
 CAROL CARROLL, Legislative Liaison                                            
 Department of Natural Resources                                               
 400 Willoughby Avenue                                                         
 Juneau, Alaska  99801-1724                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4730                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided department's position and answered              
                      questions regarding HB 17.                               
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-6, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN SCOTT OGAN called the House Resources Standing                    
 Committee meeting to order at 1:07 p.m.  Members present at the               
 call to order were Representatives Ogan, Hudson, Barnes, Dyson,               
 Green, Williams and Joule.  Representative Nicholia joined the                
 meeting at 1:18 p.m.  Co-Chairman Ogan noted that Representative              
 Masek was ill that day.                                                       
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN advised that he would chair HJR 12 and HB 17,                
 while Co-Chairman Hudson would chair HB 46 and HB 26.                         
                                                                               
 HJR 12 - LEASES IN NATL PETROLEUM RESERVE                                   
                                                                               
 Number 166                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the first order of business was House              
 Joint Resolution No. 12, urging the Secretary of the Interior to              
 conduct competitive oil and gas lease sales within the National               
 Petroleum Reserve in Alaska.  He called on Representative Green to            
 present HJR 12.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 190                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN, sponsor of HJR 12, referred to a map in             
 the committee packet that showed the National Petroleum Reserve -             
 Alaska (NPR-A) and the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR).  He            
 said, "For familiarizing anybody who may not be aware, the Kuparuk            
 River, Prudhoe Bay, Milne Point, all those units that have been so            
 productive for so many years, and then on the west side of that               
 blow-up is the Colville River delta, and it is the Colville River             
 delta where the recent Alpine discovery that ARCO has been so               
 instrumental in developing will take place.  That main channel is             
 the eastern boundary of the ... Alaska National Petroleum Reserve,            
 and it is that area that we're ... trying to energize the federal             
 government to resume leasing, when it's just a river-width away               
 from known commercial production."                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained that area was set aside in 1923 as             
 a petroleum reserve.  "By anybody's definition of that, that means            
 something to be developed for petroleum," he said.  Representative            
 Green indicated he would outline the area's history and answer                
 geographical or technical questions.  A staff member would then               
 present the legislation.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 312                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN advised that then-President Warren G. Harding,           
 by executive order in 1923, established Naval Petroleum Reserve No.           
 4, which contained approximately 37,000 square miles of land.                 
 Approximately the size of Indiana, it comprised about one-third of            
 the North Slope.  Representative Green said, "That later was                
 changed, and so that no one gets confused, in 1976 became the                 
 National Petroleum Reserve of Alaska, and I'll get to that in a               
 minute, but you may have heard either of those definitions, and               
 we're ... talking about the same area."                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said as far back as the 1800s, trapping,                 
 whaling, hunting and bartering took place throughout coastal                  
 Alaska.  After the Civil War, when Secretary Seward was                       
 instrumental in its purchase, Alaska became a U.S. territory.  From           
 roughly 1900 to 1920, several U.S. Geological Survey reports were             
 done.  In 1901, Frank C. Schrader and W.J. Peters did a geologic              
 traverse in that area and in the Brooks Range; In 1903, Alfred                
 Brooks, for whom the Brooks Range was named, did similar work.                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted that oil seeps at Cape Simpson, not far            
 from what he termed "the sensitive environmental area" of Teshekpuk           
 Lake, were delineated and pictures taken in 1909.  In addition,             
 Ernest de K. Leffingwell, considered by some to be the "father of             
 geology in Alaska," made a comprehensive geological report in 1919.           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN explained that from 1923 to 1926, an active              
 U.S. Geological Survey worked the rivers and mountain ranges,                 
 trying to delineate what was contained within the petroleum                   
 reserve.  From 1926 to 1943, there was essentially no activity.  It           
 was considered too remote and too expensive to develop.  "But the             
 main thing was that during that period of time in the Lower 48,               
 there were many, many, many oil discoveries throughout the Lower              
 48, and we ... really had more oil than we could use," he stated.             
                                                                               
 Number 518                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN reported that in 1943, activity resumed for              
 the next couple of years because of World War II.  He referred to             
 a handout in the committee packet, accompanied by a tabulation of             
 wells by name and number.  He noted that between 1945 and 1952, 45            
 shallow-core tests and 36 test wells were drilled in that area and            
 said, "[D]uring that time, three oil provinces and three gas                  
 deposits were discovered, none of which were commercial.  So then             
 we were over the war, and it was again thought too far away, so in            
 1953 to '73, there was another period of inactivity."                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN recalled the Arab embargo of 1973 and the long           
 gas lines in the Lower 48.  He said, "So between '74 and '82, there           
 was another activity that ended up ultimately with Husky Oil                  
 Company's becoming the contractor.  We drilled 21 more test wells             
 over the next seven years, and again, ... [were] not able to come             
 up with anything of a commercial nature.  1976, some of you may be            
 aware of the Naval Reserves Production Act, which in effect changed           
 the name of this to its current name.  And it provided for oil                
 sales from other naval petroleum reserves - Elk Hills was probably            
 the most notable - that had production and was actually being sold            
 commercially, then, rather than being kept for a naval reserve."              
                                                                               
 Number 637                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN continued:  "Unfortunately, in 1982 the                  
 program terminated and the operations were taken over by BLM; and             
 that's where we stand right now.  But in the GS studies, there were           
 some 11 trillion cubic feet of natural gas and at least six billion           
 barrels of oil estimated by the way they do their estimating for              
 the federal government.  Of that six billion barrels, three-fourths           
 of it lie, by their estimate, within the eastern one-fourth of the            
 NPR-A, which is the area of most interest to the State of Alaska,             
 obviously."                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 687                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN continued:  "Then, of course, there was                  
 development progressively moving ... from Prudhoe Bay to Kuparuk              
 River to out into the delta, and unfortunately, the early                     
 development in the Colville delta was uneconomic as well.  And only           
 recently did ARCO find what has now become known as the `Alpine               
 discovery,' and [they] do plan to go ahead and develop that                   
 commercially.  There are environmental considerations being                   
 considered at the time.  And the development area, certainly the              
 subsurface is still proprietary, but the development area that they           
 propose abuts the river and consequently abuts the NPR-A.  And it's           
 because of that, and the fact that it would certainly seem to me              
 reasonable to develop this entire discovery, whatever it might be,            
 if it does go over or if there are ancillary fields that are on the           
 west side.  The best place to find oil is near an oil field, and              
 that seems reasonable."                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN continued:  "And there is a pre-existing                 
 agreement that says that any oil discovered and produced ... from             
 NPR-A would be shared 50-50 with the State of Alaska and the                  
 federal government.  And my final statement, other than answering             
 questions, would be that I want to make perfectly clear that in no            
 way does this have any effect, or diminish in any way, our emphasis           
 on trying to get ANWR open.  They are completely separate entities.           
 It's just an additional thing that I think would be good for the              
 State of Alaska."  Representative Green turned the presentation               
 over to Jeff Logan.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 790                                                                    
                                                                               
 JEFFREY A. LOGAN, Legislative Assistant to Representative Joe                 
 Green, stated he had little to add.  "I would only state what is              
 stated in the resolution, that the resolution simply asks the                 
 Secretary of the Interior to re-establish oil and gas lease sales             
 in the NPR-A," he said.  "We believe the legislature should urge              
 the Secretary [of the Interior] to do so, because it would be in              
 the best interests of the state for three reasons.  The economic              
 activity associated with a leasing program and the potential                  
 exploration and development would benefit Alaskans.  The potential            
 oil that might be found in NPR-A would flow through the TAPS                  
 pipeline, and we all know how important it is to keep the pipeline            
 open.  And, as Representative Green stated, the state receives 50             
 percent of the revenues from all sales, rentals, bonuses and                  
 royalties."                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 854                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE RAMONA BARNES made a motion to move HJR 12 from the            
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN noted that Representative Nicholia had joined the            
 meeting.  He asked if there was any discussion or objection to the            
 motion.  There being no objection, HJR 12 moved from the House                
 Resources Standing Committee with individual recommendations.                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN turned the gavel over to Co-Chairman Hudson for              
 the next order of business.                                                   
                                                                               
 HB 46 - MINING CLAIMS ON PUBLIC LANDS                                       
                                                                               
 Number 915                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON announced the next order of business was              
 House Bill No. 46, "An Act relating to mining; and providing for an           
 effective date."  He advised there was a proposed committee                   
 substitute and asked for a motion to adopt it as a work draft.                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved to adopt the substitute.                          
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection.  There being             
 none, Work Draft 1/29/97, Luckhaupt, 0-LS0265\B was before the                
 committee.  Co-Chairman Hudson invited Representative Kelly to                
 present the bill.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 950                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PETE KELLY, a prime sponsor of HB 46, explained, "HB
 46 comes out of the permitting process for some of the larger mines           
 that have recently come up to speed here in Alaska, most notably              
 Fort Knox and Illinois Creek.  In getting those mines up and                  
 producing, a number of flaws were discovered in Title 38,                     
 specifically as it relates to mining on state land.  This bill                
 addresses those flaws and brings the statutes into line with the              
 procedures that actually exist within DNR.  The bill is supported             
 by industry and the Administration.  To my knowledge, there is                
 little or no controversy surrounding this."  Representative Kelly             
 offered to go through the bill section by section.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES indicated if there was no objection to the              
 bill, that was unnecessary.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1017                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if the committee had questions.  He then             
 called on Jules Tileston to testify.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 1031                                                                   
                                                                               
 JULES TILESTON, Director, Division of Mining and Water Management,            
 Department of Natural Resources (DNR), stated, "The Administration            
 does support the bill and the amendments that you are looking at              
 now.  I would be pleased to answer any questions."                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there were questions and said he would            
 entertain a motion.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1068                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion that CSHB 46 move from                    
 committee with individual recommendations.                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KELLY pointed out there was an amendment before the            
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1075                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES withdrew her motion.  She referred to                   
 Amendment 0-LS0265\B.1, Luckhaupt, 1/30/97, which read:                       
                                                                               
      TO:  Draft CSHB 46( )("B" Version)                                       
                                                                               
      Page 5, line 29, through page 6, line l:                                 
           Delete "The rental amount shall be revised by the                   
      commissioner if the change between the index for the first six           
      months of the current year and the most recent index used to             
      revise the rental, or the reference base index if the rental             
      amount has never been revised, equals or exceeds $5."                    
                                                                               
      Page 6, line 4:                                                          
           Delete "index annually"                                             
           Insert "rental amount each 10 years"                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved that the amendment be adopted.                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection.  There being             
 none, the amendment to the committee substitute was adopted.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1103                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion to move CSHB 46, as amended,              
 from the committee with individual recommendations and asked                  
 unanimous consent.                                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection and noted there           
 was none.  He advised that someone wished to testify and asked                
 Representative Barnes to hold her motion.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1174                                                                   
                                                                               
 BAERENT STRANDBERG, Strandberg Mineral Services, testified via                
 teleconference from Mat-Su.  He referred to the original bill and             
 indicated the Strandbergs had been involved in one of the largest             
 placer mines in Alaska and had written a lengthy report on the                
 Valdez Creek project.                                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON inquired whether Mr. Strandberg was working from           
 the 1/29/97 committee substitute adopted as a work draft and                  
 described it.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1223                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. STRANDBERG responded, "No, no, apparently not."  He indicated             
 a legislative aide was helping him.  Mr. Strandberg referred to the           
 "South Denali entrance problem," which he said had some relation to           
 the bill.  He asked how he could coordinate with the committee.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES suggested Mr. Strandberg state his concern              
 and then let the bill's sponsor identify whether or not that was              
 addressed in the new committee substitute.                                    
                                                                               
 MR. STRANDBERG agreed.  He referred to AS 38.05.285(a) and stated,            
 "It says that state lands may not be closed to mining or mineral              
 location under AS 38.05.185 - 38.05.275 except as provided in AS              
 38.05.300 and unless the commissioner makes the finding that mining           
 will be incompatible with significant surface uses on state land."            
 He explained he had a problem with the commissioner making a                  
 determination of whether mining was compatible with other uses.               
                                                                               
 MR. STRANDBERG said, "If you're in a mining district, the industry            
 that is moving into the district should be evaluated as to whether            
 it is compatible with mining.  And that comes in with the Denali              
 south entrance.  We believe that the tourist industry being jammed            
 up against industrial projects will create significant additional             
 costs."                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. STRANDBERG explained, "And what I would like to see in this               
 bill right here, I'd like to see you add an amendment in there                
 where any additional activities will be evaluated as to its                   
 potential upset of the financial structure of the project.  And for           
 instance, there's a mine that went down just outside of Yellowstone           
 where President Clinton came in to play and killed the mining                 
 operation.  And we do have a number of projects that are coming in            
 right next door to state and federal parks.  And I'd like to see              
 your committee here address ... that issue.  And I think that's our           
 major one."                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1391                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON voiced his understanding that they were looking            
 at page 4, line 12, of the adopted draft.  He asked whether                   
 Representative Kelly understood what Mr. Strandberg was suggesting.           
                                                                               
 Number 1396                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KELLY responded, "As I understand, this is state law           
 and this bill does not affect what he is referring to here.  If he            
 would like, I would gladly let him contact my office to entertain             
 amendments at a later time, in a different committee."                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON said it did not, then, apply to what was being             
 addressed by HB 46.                                                           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KELLY agreed it did not apply.                                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked whether Mr. Strandberg had heard that.               
                                                                               
 Number 1423                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. STRANDBERG replied he would contact Representative Kelly's                
 legislative assistant.  He had tried to contact someone from                  
 Representative Kelly's office that morning, he said.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE KELLY acknowledged that telephone call and said his            
 staff had tried unsuccessfully to return it.  He indicated his                
 staff would contact Mr. Strandberg that afternoon.                            
                                                                               
 MR. STRANDBERG said that was his only question.  It was a                     
 significant problem trying to mix the tourist business with mining.           
 "I don't see how it's compatible," he concluded.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES made a motion that CSHB 46, as amended, move            
 from the committee with individual recommendations and asked                  
 unanimous consent.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1465                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection.  There being             
 none, CSHB 46(RES) moved from the House Resources Standing                    
 Committee.                                                                    
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON turned the gavel over to Co-Chairman Ogan.                 
                                                                               
 HJR 12 - LEASES IN NATL PETROLEUM RESERVE                                    
                                                                              
 Number 1481                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN announced the next order of business was House               
 Joint Resolution No. 12, urging the Secretary of the Interior to              
 conduct competitive oil and gas lease sales within the National               
 Petroleum Reserve in Alaska.  Co-Chairman Ogan had inadvertently              
 omitted taking public testimony on HJR 12 before it moved out of              
 committee.  He apologized to those who had signed up to testify and           
 asked if there were suggestions.                                              
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON suggested that written testimony be elicited               
 from those who wanted to testify.  That testimony could then be               
 transmitted with HJR 12 to the next committee of referral.                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN agreed.  He again apologized and stated it had not           
 been his intention.  Co-Chairman Ogan turned the gavel back to Co-            
 Chairman Hudson for the next order of business.                               
                                                                               
 HB 26 - BIG GAME TAGS FOR WOLVES                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1556                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced the next order of business was House             
 Bill No. 26, "An Act relating to big game tags for wolves; and                
 providing for an effective date."  He called on Co-Chairman Ogan to           
 present the bill.                                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1583                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN, sponsor of HB 26, noted that it had been                    
 previously scheduled but not heard.  He explained the bill, saying,           
 "What it does is it lowers the price of a nonresident and                     
 nonresident alien wolf tag from $175 for a nonresident to $30, and            
 from $250 for a nonresident alien to $50."  He advised that a                 
 nonresident alien was someone from out of the country.                        
                                                                               
 Number 1610                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN stated, "I would like to see more people,                    
 especially nonresident hunters who traditionally hunt with a guide,           
 in the field with wolf tags.  This gives the Board of Game the                
 ability to set the seasons and bag limits, and if there's an area             
 where the Board of Game and the Department of Fish and Game have              
 identified ... that needs to be intensively managed, there'll be              
 more opportunity for these incidental takes of wolves and give a              
 little bit of a tool to be able to manage the resource a little bit           
 more proactively."                                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN said HB 26 would provide more fair-chase hunting             
 opportunities.  "I believe it's necessary in light of the recent              
 initiative that was passed on wolves, that the department's hands             
 are further tied to intensively manage," he concluded.                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there were questions from the                     
 committee.  He called on Michele Drummond to come forward and                 
 testify.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1666                                                                   
                                                                               
 MICHELE DRUMMOND, Volunteer, Alaska Environmental Lobby, testified            
 in opposition to HB 26, indicating she also spoke as a field                  
 biologist with six years' experience working in the commercial                
 fishing industry.  "The Alaska Environmental Lobby does not support           
 HB 26 because it calls for the reduction of tag fees for                      
 nonresidents," she explained.  "We believe that out-of-state                  
 hunters should continue to pay higher prices for the ability to               
 hunt game, which they can't do in other states.  It's something               
 that's only available in Alaska."                                             
                                                                               
 MS. DRUMMOND indicated there were few sightings of wolves.  She               
 believed the incidental take of wolves would not necessarily                  
 increase just because more tags were being issued.  "It seems that            
 this bill continues to persecute wolves as a `bad species' because            
 they tend to compete with humans for the caribou and moose                    
 populations, and the hunting tool as a wildlife management tool is            
 not necessarily a viable way to manage the wildlife stocks," she              
 concluded.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1756                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IRENE NICHOLIA asked Ms. Drummond, "Have you ever              
 been out to the rural area where the people ... are experiencing              
 problems with a large decline in the moose populations and evidence           
 that there are a lot of moose being taken by wolves?"                         
                                                                               
 MS. DRUMMOND replied she had not.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1779                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN inquired whether Ms. Drummond was aware              
 that HB 26 referred only to areas designated a critical problem               
 with wolf kill, not statewide.                                                
                                                                               
 MS. DRUMMOND said yes.                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked how Ms. Drummond would manage the                  
 overpopulation of wolves in those areas.                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1802                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. DRUMMOND replied, "I couldn't give you a proper response on               
 that at the moment.  I could research it and get back with you."              
                                                                               
 Number 1817                                                                   
                                                                               
 WAYNE REGELIN, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,                   
 Department of Fish and Game, testified in support of HB 26.  He               
 believed Alaska's wolf population was currently underutilized and             
 could sustain a higher harvest level.  He stated, "It's about 15              
 percent across the state right now, and the population can                    
 withstand 30 percent harvest rates without causing any problems.              
 We think a reduction in fees for nonresident hunters may encourage            
 more nonresident hunters to purchase a wolf tag and increase the              
 harvest of wolves."                                                           
                                                                               
 MR. REGELIN said in the areas with too many wolves, designated by             
 the Board of Game for intensive management, the fee would be                  
 waived.  He explained, "Right now very few nonresidents purchase              
 wolf tags. ... In 1995, only 237 nonresidents and, I think, 35                
 nonresident aliens purchased wolf tags out of about almost 11,000             
 nonresident hunters.  So I think that a reduction in the fees may             
 very well encourage more people to harvest wolves."  Mr. Regelin              
 concluded by restating the department's support of HB 26.                     
                                                                               
 Number 1899                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked, "[I]f you didn't have this type of a                
 management tool - and of course the general public passed the                 
 initiative to halt the fly-and-shoot type of situation - what's               
 your assessment of your ability to control these predator                     
 populations?"                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1919                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. REGELIN replied that it would be difficult in areas with severe           
 predator problems.  "And this probably won't help," he admitted.              
 "But it won't hurt, and it will help in other places and provide a            
 lot more opportunity ... to harvest a resource that's currently               
 underharvested.  But in the areas where we have a very severe                 
 predator problem, this isn't going to be a lot of help."  He said             
 in those areas, more wolves would need to be harvested than would             
 occur through hunting.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1946                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said, "Let's assume that this is effective and           
 that in certain areas that are certainly in need of `de-wolfing,'             
 if you will, do you see the fact that there would be more alien               
 nonresident hunters in any area like that?  As you indicated it               
 probably won't be a major help, do you see it as being a hindrance?           
 Is there a safety hazard that this could create, or is there any              
 negative to this?"                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 1973                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. REGELIN did not see any negatives to it.  He mentioned                    
 nonresidents who come to Alaska to hunt sheep, bear, moose or                 
 caribou.  With the tag fee at $175, many people did not buy a tag.            
 "At $30, I think more will," he explained.  "I don't think it will            
 increase the number of hunters that we have or cause any kind of              
 problems.  I think that it ... might increase the harvest of                  
 wolves.  It will certainly give them more opportunity, and we're in           
 the opportunity business."                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1996                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Mr. Regelin to address the board process,              
 including how season bag limits were set and how wolf harvest was             
 controlled.                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. REGELIN explained, "The legislature must set license fees and             
 tag fees.  The Board of Game can't do that.  But the Board of Game            
 then sets bag limits, seasons, and methods and means.  So if                  
 there's a problem in a certain area, the board can reduce the bag             
 limit, reduce the season for hunting and trapping.  Right now, in             
 many areas, we ... open the wolf season for hunting at the same               
 time other big game species open, so that people have an                      
 opportunity to take a wolf if they want to."                                  
                                                                               
 MR. REGELIN continued:  "Most of our wolf harvest occurs during the           
 winter by trappers that are doing it to make money. ... A ten-year            
 average of the wolf harvest in Alaska is 1107, and ... each wolf              
 pelt is worth about $300, so it's a significant amount of money,              
 especially in rural areas where there's very little opportunity to            
 make money.  And we manage trapping ... through season dates and              
 lengths, not through bag limits, because a trapper putting out a              
 trap line doesn't know exactly how many he'll catch."  Mr. Regelin            
 indicated Alaska's wolf population was abundant and healthy, with             
 7,000 - 10,000 wolves, up significantly from ten years before.                
 "They're managed well, most places," he concluded.                            
                                                                               
 Number 2081                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there were further questions or whether           
 anyone on teleconference wished to testify.  He stated his                    
 intention of moving the bill.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 2107                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA made a motion that HB 26 move from                    
 committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal                 
 notes.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2117                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there were objections.  Hearing none,             
 Co-Chairman Hudson advised that HB 26 was moved from the House                
 Resources Standing Committee.                                                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON turned the gavel over to Co-Chairman Ogan for              
 the next item of business.                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN called for a short recess at 1:43 p.m.                       
                                                                               
 [RECESS -- END OF TAPE 97-6]                                                  
 [MEETING RESUMED AT 1:58 P.M. WITH CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON PRESIDING]              
                                                                               
 HB 46 - MINING CLAIMS ON PUBLIC LANDS                                       
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-7, SIDE A                                                             
 Number 006                                                                    
                                                                               
 The next order of business was House Bill No. 46, "An Act relating            
 to mining; and providing for an effective date."                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES referred to the fiscal note from the DNR for            
 HB 46.  At $1,000, it was a very small fiscal note for changes                
 required in regulations.  Representative Barnes believed the DNR              
 could absorb that cost.  She saw no reason for HB 46 to go to the             
 House Finance Committee for that amount.                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES moved that the House Resources Standing                 
 Committee zero out the fiscal note and further moved that a zero              
 fiscal note be moved from the committee along with CSHB 46(RES), as           
 amended.  She asked unanimous consent.                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if there was any objection.                          
                                                                               
 Number 081                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN inquired whether they needed to rescind the                  
 previous action.                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES replied no.                                             
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON concurred, saying it was an attachment and the             
 motion was proper.                                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES advised that the committee needed to prepare            
 a zero fiscal note and specify that it was by the House Resources             
 Standing Committee.                                                           
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON said he would ask the committee to prepare that.           
                                                                               
 Number 131                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA stated, "I'd like to know what the entailed           
 costs are for the $1,000 and why they have a $1,000 fiscal note."             
 She asked if someone from the DNR could explain it.                           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES responded, "It says on the bottom that it is            
 for revising the regulations that goes with this.  And I believe              
 that those revisions, as I stated, can be made as part of their ...           
 in-house budget."                                                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA still wanted to know how the department               
 came up with the $1,000 fiscal note.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 202                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES pointed out there was a narrative at the                
 bottom stating how the DNR would use the $1,000.                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NICHOLIA responded, "I'd just like to state that               
 it's kind of dumb that we have a fiscal note here for $1,000 and              
 nobody from the department, the Division of Mining Development,               
 that is here to back it up."                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 249                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON acknowledged the motion and request for                    
 unanimous consent to attach and advance CSHB 46, as amended, with             
 the fiscal note zeroed.  He indicated staff had been ordered to               
 prepare a zero fiscal note.  He asked if there was any objection to           
 the motion.  There being no objection, CSHB 46(RES) moved from the            
 House Resources Standing Committee with a zero fiscal note.                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON turned the gavel over to Co-Chairman Ogan to               
 present the next item of business.                                            
                                                                               
 HB 17 - DNR APPROVAL OF PLATS IN UNORG BOROUGH                              
                                                                               
 Number 270                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN welcomed Representative James and invited her to             
 present House Bill No. 17, "An Act establishing the Department of             
 Natural Resources as the platting authority in certain areas of the           
 state; relating to subdivisions and dedications; and providing for            
 an effective date."                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 309                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, sponsor of HB 17, presented the               
 bill.  "Some of you who've been around awhile may have seen this              
 bill before," she said.  "It's been around and around and around.             
 And it was last year House Bill 80, and it just died in the rush of           
 adjournment."  Representative James said the bill had been around             
 for six years or so before she joined the legislature.  She advised           
 that Pat Kalen, who had been instrumental in drafting the                     
 legislation throughout the process, was on teleconference to answer           
 questions and comment about the bill.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES explained, "This is a bill that would require            
 the DNR to be a platting authority in the unorganized borough or              
 anyplace where there is no platting authority operating.  Currently           
 the DNR does file the plats, but it has no authority to review the            
 plats to see ... if they are qualifying plats, that the                       
 monumentation is in, that there is existing legal access and other            
 requirements that would be needed to have a valid plat ... to                 
 eliminate future problems."                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES continued:  "The general fund start-up cost of           
 $21,300 that's listed in the fiscal note is subject to being                  
 amended.  However, I think that that would be a proper place to               
 amend that.  In other words, it could be reduced.  It would be in             
 the Finance Committee.  After the initial start-up costs, this                
 should be self-paying because the fees that are charged ... for the           
 review of the plats will be covering the cost of reviewing the                
 plats."                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 408                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES explained her interest in the bill stemmed               
 from a situation in her district four years earlier, when the                 
 University of Alaska, doing a subdivision of one of their sections            
 in an area having no platting authority, had provided no legal                
 access to those lots.  "And when I disagreed with that, we were               
 able to finally solve the situation by negotiations," she said.               
 "But they had no requirement to provide legal access to those lots.           
 And there was no platting authority and no one to be able to review           
 the plats."  Thus she had seen the necessity for change.                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted that HB 17 also changed the Department             
 of Transportation and Public Facilities monumentation requirement             
 so that monuments required for straight roads would be half the               
 number required on curves.  This would be less costly for the                 
 department when putting in rights-of-way.  "It also adds three                
 departments to subdivision definition, which ... was in HB 80 and             
 some way or other it was removed," she explained.  "What we've                
 tried to do in this piece of legislation is to have the subdivision           
 definition be the same ... in any one of the various departments.             
 And I have a listing here of what those departments are. ... It's             
 Lands and Surveying and DEC.  So that now if you look for a                   
 subdivision definition in the statutes, they'll all be the same."             
                                                                               
 Number 564                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES emphasized that there were no objections to              
 the bill and offered to answer questions.                                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there were questions.                               
                                                                               
 Number 592                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON noted there were three amendments in the packet            
 and asked if Representative James wished for those to be numbered             
 Amendments 1 - 3.                                                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES indicated she had provided those and that was            
 her desire.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 615                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON moved that Amendment 1 be adopted and asked                
 unanimous consent.  Amendment 1 to HB 17, 0-LS0138\A.1, Luckhaupt,            
 1/22/97, read:                                                                
                                                                               
      Page 4, lines 22 - 24:                                                   
           Delete all material.                                                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Representative James to explain Amendment 1.           
                                                                               
 Number 648                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said, "... DEC is not going to review                    
 subdivisions in the state anymore.  And this was a line in ... the            
 bill that said the commissioner shall require that a plat submitted           
 for approval bear the certificate of approval of any other state              
 agency having subdivision plat approval authority.  And there is no           
 other agency, and so that takes out the requirement for DEC.                  
 That's what it's related to, and DEC has no problem with that."               
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN noted there was already a motion and asked if                
 there were any objections.  There being none, Amendment 1 was                 
 adopted.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 682                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON moved to adopt Amendment 2 and asked unanimous             
 consent.  Amendment 2 to HB 17, 0-LS0138\A.2, Luckhaupt, 1/22/97,             
 read:                                                                         
                                                                               
      Page 1, following line 13:                                               
           Insert new bill sections to read:                                   
           "* Sec. 3.  AS 34.65.100 is amended by adding a new                 
      paragraph to read:                                                       
                (6)  "subdivision" has the meaning given in AS                 
           40.15.900.                                                          
           * Sec. 4.  AS 38.04.910 is amended by adding a new                  
      paragraph to read:                                                       
                (13)  "subdivision" has the meaning given in AS                
           40.15.900."                                                         
                                                                               
      Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                        
                                                                               
      Page 7, following line 23:                                               
           Insert a new bill section to read:                                  
           "* Sec. 10.  AS 46.03.900 is amended by adding a new                
      paragraph to read:                                                       
                (36) "subdivision" has the meaning given in AS                 
           40.15.900."                                                         
                                                                               
      Renumber the following bill sections accordingly.                        
                                                                               
      Page 7, line 25:                                                         
           Delete "sec. 7"                                                     
           Insert "sec. 9"                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked Representative James to explain Amendment 2.           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said, "[W]e had reprinted this bill from                 
 exactly the way HB 80 was last year when it was in the other body,            
 and ... somehow or other in the process, these three descriptions             
 in the various places for subdivision ... [were] eliminated from              
 the bill.  So we didn't see that ... when we got the original bill.           
 So it's putting them back in so that all of those three areas have            
 the same definition of subdivision."                                          
                                                                               
 Number 754                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there was discussion or any objection.              
 Hearing no objection, he noted that Amendment 2 was adopted.                  
                                                                               
 Number 764                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON moved to adopt Amendment 3 and asked unanimous             
 consent.  Amendment 3 to HB 17, 0LS0138\A.3, Luckhaupt, 1/22/97,              
 read:                                                                         
                                                                               
      Page 6, lines 14 - 19:                                                   
           Delete all material.                                                
           Insert "reinforcement bar with appropriate identification           
      cap set points from which the right-of-way may be defined, not           
      exceeding 1,320 feet or, when line of sight permits, 2,640               
      feet; all recovered"                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 782                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES explained that Amendment 3 related to the                
 Department of Transportation and Public Facilities and                        
 monumentation along rights-of-way.  "And when it's a straight line,           
 ... they only have to do half as much monumentation as they do on             
 a curved line, so it's saving money and not putting unnecessary               
 monumentation along a right-of-way," she added.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted that Amendment 3 eliminated lines 14 to            
 19.  He asked Representative James if it read the way she wanted it           
 to.                                                                           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE JAMES replied she believed it did.  "It's reduction            
 in the amount of monumentation," she stated.  Representative James            
 reminded the committee Pat Kalen was on teleconference to answer              
 questions.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 862                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN inquired whether Representative Green wished to              
 get additional input.                                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN indicated he was okay with the amendment.                
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there was further discussion or any                 
 objection.  Hearing no objection, Co-Chairman Ogan noted that                 
 Amendment 3 was adopted.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 882                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN opened up the meeting for public testimony.  He              
 called upon Pat Kalen to testify.                                             
                                                                               
 PAT KALEN, Chairman, Alaska Section, American Congress on Surveying           
 and Mapping; and Chairman, Legislative Committee, Alaska Society              
 for Professional Land Surveyors, testified via teleconference from            
 Fairbanks in support of HB 17.  He stated, "The surveyors have                
 worked in the subject area quite a bit.  We had a bill ... that               
 nearly passed the legislature in 1990 to develop a thing called the           
 Survey and Mapping Advisory Board that was made up of surveyors               
 from all over the state and ... the private sector and the public             
 sector, and had representatives from the Alaska Federation of                 
 Natives and all the major state departments that would be affected            
 in this area.  And we noticed that a couple of years ago, that ...            
 [Representative James] ... was the first person to notice that you            
 could do anything you wanted to in the unorganized borough.  Her              
 problem was concerning legal access.  And she was absolutely                  
 correct that people could make ... land descriptions in these new             
 subdivisions without providing legal access."                                 
                                                                               
 MR. KALEN explained the problem was a little deeper than that.                
 People could draw up any kind of deed they wished without being               
 required to go to a lawyer or surveyor.  "And some very strange               
 animals have been filed over the years," he stated.  "And surveyors           
 and lawyers get to see them after people discover there's something           
 the matter, that ... they should have done."  Mr. Kalen indicated             
 no rules applied to subdivisions in the unorganized borough, saying           
 "excepting such as DEC used to be able to say they had authority,             
 but they didn't have any way of enforcing what they said you had to           
 do."                                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. KALEN mentioned he had worked with Representative James and her           
 assistant, Walt Wilcox, on HB 17.  "The three little changes I was            
 aware of, and I support them wholeheartedly," he stated.  He noted            
 it was much more cost-effective to place monuments out where they             
 could be seen than to "hide them off in the woods," which actually            
 raised survey costs.  Mr. Kalen commended the sponsor and asked               
 that the committee move the bill.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 1088                                                                   
                                                                               
 CAROL CARROLL, Legislative Liaison, Department of Natural                     
 Resources, testified in support of HB 17.  She said she hoped Jane            
 Angvik, Director of Land, would arrive in time to answer questions.           
 She noted that if there were questions she herself could not                  
 answer, a Division of Land employee was on teleconference.                    
                                                                               
 MS. CARROLL stated, "The Department of Natural Resources does                 
 support this bill.  We think that it will certainly go a long way             
 to clearing up some title, making it easy for citizens of Alaska to           
 make sure that the plot that they have purchased in the subdivision           
 is indeed theirs and it doesn't infringe on any other ... land."              
                                                                               
 Number 1145                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked whether HB 17 had been scrutinized carefully           
 to preclude technical problems or future litigation.                          
                                                                               
 Number 1157                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. CARROLL replied, "Yes, the Division of Land has looked at this.           
 They've looked at it for the last couple of years since ...                   
 Representative James has been interested in this bill.  And we do             
 not see, to my knowledge, any technical problems.  I have not seen            
 any come before the department, at least, in the bill analyses that           
 they require."                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1192                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to the fiscal note and said, "[Y]ou             
 indicate that through regulations, you will increase the fee from             
 $200 to $300, that will cover ... future costs ... that you incur             
 in the department.  Is it your understanding, or is it your message           
 to us, that it appears to be that; if it should be more, you will,            
 through regulation, make sure that that fee is covered?"                      
                                                                               
 Number 1219                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. CARROLL responded, "We intend to make this program revenue-               
 neutral."                                                                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if anyone else wished to testify, then said            
 he would entertain a motion.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1245                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON made a motion to move HB 17, with the three                
 adopted amendments and attached fiscal note, with individual                
 recommendations.  He asked unanimous consent.                                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN asked if there was any objection.  Hearing none,             
 Co-Chairman Ogan noted that HB 17, as amended and with the attached           
 fiscal note, moved from the House Resources Standing Committee.               
                                                                               
 Number 1263                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BARNES asked to be excused from the briefing                   
 scheduled the following day.  Having worked for Cominco, Alaska,              
 she believed herself to be very knowledgeable on the Red Dog Mine             
 project and proposals for the future.                                         
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN HUDSON reminded committee members that packets for the            
 following day were already available.  The briefing, to be held               
 jointly with the Senate Resources Committee, was to be in the                 
 Senate Finance Committee room.  He urged attendance.  He noted                
 there was no meeting Tuesday, February 4.  On Thursday, February 6,           
 there would be an overview.                                                 
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN thanked everyone for their expeditious handling of           
 the bills heard that day.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1334                                                                   
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIRMAN OGAN adjourned the House Resources Standing Committee             
 meeting at 2:15 p.m.                                                          
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects