Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/14/1994 08:15 AM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                         March 14, 1994                                        
                            8:15 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Bill Williams, Chairman                                       
  Representative Bill Hudson, Vice Chairman                                    
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  Representative Pat Carney                                                    
  Representative John Davies                                                   
  Representative David Finkelstein                                             
  Representative Joe Green                                                     
  Representative Jeannette James                                               
  Representative Eldon Mulder                                                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
  OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                    
                                                                               
  Representative Carl Moses                                                    
                                                                               
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  HJR 59    Relating to reduction of wanton waste in North                     
            Pacific Ocean and Bering Sea fisheries.                            
                                                                               
            PASSED CS HJR 59(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE WITH                        
            INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS                                         
                                                                               
  HB 496    "An Act relating to sport fish guides; and                         
            providing for an effective date."                                  
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE                                        
                                                                               
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES                                                    
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 204                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska   99801-1182                                                  
  Phone:  465-4451                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Prime Sponsor HJR 59                                    
                                                                               
  PAUL SEATON, President                                                       
  Alaska Marine Conservation Council                                           
  58360 Bruce Drive                                                            
  Homer, Alaska   99603                                                        
  Phone:  235-6342                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HJR 59                                        
                                                                               
  SEAN MARTIN, Representative                                                  
  Homer Charter Association                                                    
  P.O. Box 889                                                                 
  Homer, Alaska   99603                                                        
  Phone:  235-5130                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HJR 59 and HB 496                             
                                                                               
  RICK LAUBER, Representative                                                  
  Pacific Seafood Processors Association                                       
  Chairman, North Pacific Fisheries Management Council                         
  321 Highland Drive                                                           
  Juneau, Alaska   99801                                                       
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HJR 59                                        
                                                                               
  THERESA WEISER                                                               
  P.O. Box 2300                                                                
  Sitka, Alaska   99835                                                        
  Phone:  747-8883                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HJR 59 and supported the                      
                       concept of HB 496                                       
                                                                               
  PETE ECKLUND, Aide                                                           
  Representative Bill Williams                                                 
  State Capitol, Room 128                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska   99801-1182                                                  
  Phone:  465-3424                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Gave briefing on HB 496                                 
                                                                               
  PAUL KRASNOWSKI, Director                                                    
  Division of Sport Fish                                                       
  Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                           
  P.O. Box 25526                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska  99802-5526                                                   
  Phone:  465-4180                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 496                                        
                                                                               
  FRANK HOMAN, Commissioner                                                    
  Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission                                        
  8800 Glacier Highway, #109                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                        
  Phone:  789-6160                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Commented on HB 496                                     
                                                                               
  RICHARD ANDREW                                                               
  P.O. Box 7211                                                                
  Ketchikan, Alaska   99901                                                    
  Phone:  225-2463                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 496                                        
                                                                               
  MICHAEL LOCKABEY                                                             
  P.O. Box 1542                                                                
  Wrangell, Alaska   99833                                                     
  Phone:  874-3723                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 496                                          
                                                                               
  HAROLD BAILEY                                                                
  5 1/2 Mile Zimovia Highway                                                   
  Wrangell, Alaska   99833                                                     
  Phone:  874-3958                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 496                                          
                                                                               
  BARBARA BINGHAM, Member                                                      
  Sitka Charter Boat Operators Association                                     
  P.O. Box 6112                                                                
  Sitka, Alaska   99835                                                        
  Phone:  747-5777                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 496                                          
                                                                               
  ED JONES                                                                     
  P.O. Box 897                                                                 
  Petersburg, Alaska   99833                                                   
  Phone:  772-4868                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 496                                          
                                                                               
  MIKE COATES                                                                  
  Sorry Charlie Charters                                                       
  1269 Upland Court                                                            
  Homer, Alaska   99603                                                        
  Phone:  235-2553                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 496                                        
                                                                               
  JIM HESTON                                                                   
  P.O. Box 331                                                                 
  Valdez, Alaska   99686                                                       
  Phone:  835-5115                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Expressed concerns about HB 496                         
                                                                               
  JOHN GEORGE, Representative                                                  
  Alaska Outdoor Council                                                       
  9515 Moraine Way                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska    99801                                                      
  Phone:  789-0172                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 496                                        
                                                                               
  DENNIS PETRE                                                                 
  5901 Boondox Drive                                                           
  Salcha, Alaska   99714                                                       
  Phone:  488-4589                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 496 with concerns                          
                                                                               
  BOB ELLIOTT                                                                  
  4582 Elliott Lane                                                            
  Fairbanks, Alaska   997009                                                   
  Phone:  479-6323                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 496                                          
                                                                               
  DONALD WESTLUND                                                              
  P.O. Box 7883                                                                
  Ketchikan, Alaska   99901                                                    
  Phone:  225-9319                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 496                                          
                                                                               
  ROBERT WARD                                                                  
  A-Ward Charters                                                              
  P.O. Box 631                                                                 
  Anchor Point, Alaska   99556                                                 
  Phone:  235-7014                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 496                                          
                                                                               
  TIM EVERS                                                                    
  Deep Creek Charters                                                          
  P.O. Box 39547                                                               
  Ninilchik, Alaska   99639                                                    
  Phone:  567-3518                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 496                                          
                                                                               
  PAUL GOEDERT                                                                 
  P.O. Box 39415                                                               
  Ninilchik, Alaska   99639                                                    
  Phone:  567-3665                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 496 with changes                           
                                                                               
  ROGER WATNEY                                                                 
  Anchor Point Charters                                                        
  P.O. Box 511                                                                 
  Anchor Point, Alaska   99556                                                 
  Phone:  235-4063                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported HB 496 with changes                           
                                                                               
  GARY PLUMB                                                                   
  441 Hillcrest                                                                
  Ketchikan, Alaska   99901                                                    
  Phone:  225-6409                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported concept of HB 496                             
                                                                               
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HJR 59                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: WANTON WASTE OF FISH N.PACIFIC/BERING SEA                       
  SPONSOR(S): RULES                                                            
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/18/94      2457    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/18/94      2457    (H)   FSH, RESOURCES                                   
  03/02/94      2577    (H)   FSH RPT  CS(FSH) 5DP                             
  03/02/94      2577    (H)   DP: MOSES,PHILLIPS,NICHOLIA,                     
                              DAVIDSON                                         
  03/02/94      2577    (H)   DP:  OLBERG                                      
  03/02/94      2577    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (H.FSH)                        
                              3/2/94                                           
  03/02/94              (H)   FSH AT 08:30 AM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/02/94              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                      
  03/14/94              (H)   RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 496                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSING                                      
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS                                       
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/14/94      2381    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/14/94      2381    (H)   FSH, RESOURCES, FINANCE                          
  02/23/94              (H)   FSH AT 08:30 AM CAPITOL 17                       
  02/23/94              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                      
  03/04/94              (H)   FSH AT 08:30 AM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/07/94      2642    (H)   FSH RPT  CS(FSH) 3DP 1NR                         
  03/07/94      2642    (H)   DP:  MOSES, PHILLIPS, OLBERG                     
  03/07/94      2643    (H)   NR:  DAVIDSON                                    
  03/07/94      2643    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE (F&G) 3/7/94                        
  03/07/94      2643    (H)   REFERRED TO RESOURCES                            
  03/14/94              (H)   RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-31, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  The House Resources Committee was called to order by                         
  Chairman Bill Williams at 8:25 a.m.  Members present at the                  
  call to order were Representatives Williams, Hudson, Bunde,                  
  Davies, Finkelstein, Green, James, and Mulder.                               
  Representative Carney was absent.                                            
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS announced there is a quorum present.                  
  He said the meeting is on teleconference with Fairbanks,                     
  Homer, Ketchikan, Petersburg, Seward, Sitka, Kenai/Soldotna,                 
  Wrangell, and Valdez.                                                        
  HJR 59 - Wanton Waste of Fish N. Pacific/Bering Sea                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES, PRIME SPONSOR, stated there is an                 
  executive summary contained in members' folders entitled                     
  "Discards In The Groundfish Fisheries Of The Bering                          
  Sea/Aleutian Islands & The Gulf Of Alaska During 1992".  He                  
  said the document was prepared for the Alaska Department of                  
  Fish and Game (ADF&G) by Pacific Associates.  He pointed out                 
  that statistics used in HJR 59 are found in the executive                    
  summary.  He urged committee members to adopt HJR 59 and                     
  move it from the committee.  He said the message contained                   
  in the resolution is very timely in light of the activities                  
  within Congress on federal reauthorizations and other bills,                 
  addressing conservation of fishery resources within                          
  federally managed waters.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 037                                                                   
                                                                               
  PAUL SEATON, PRESIDENT, ALASKA MARINE CONSERVATION COUNCIL,                  
  testified via teleconference and expressed support for HJR
  59.  He said the Alaska Marine Conservation Council has been                 
  working with the North Pacific Fisheries Management Council                  
  to develop a method of reducing waste and discards in the                    
  North Pacific.  He stressed waste and discards are impacting                 
  all fisheries.  He stated Senator Murkowski has a bill                       
  introduced already and Senator Stevens has a bill which is                   
  in the drafting stage.  He urged the committee to pass HJR
  59 to further interest the Senators to look at the issue in                  
  a way that will resolve it to the benefit of Alaska.                         
                                                                               
  (CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVE                  
  CARNEY had joined the committee at 8:30 a.m.)                                
                                                                               
  Number 066                                                                   
                                                                               
  SEAN MARTIN, PRESIDENT, HOMER CHARTER ASSOCIATION, testified                 
  via teleconference and expressed support of HJR 59.                          
                                                                               
  RICK LAUBER, REPRESENTATIVE, PACIFIC SEAFOOD PROCESSORS                      
  ASSOCIATION (PSPA), AND CHAIRMAN, NORTH PACIFIC FISHERIES                    
  MANAGEMENT COUNCIL (NPFMC), stated PSPA supports HJR 59.                     
  The waste and discards of fish ongoing offshore is a                         
  disgrace.  He said Alaska has had a wanton waste statute for                 
  many years allowing discards, including roe stripping,                       
  salmon herring, etc., but the policy does not include waters                 
  off the coast of Alaska or the U.S.  He noted the bill                       
  drafted by Senator Murkowski makes it clear that the NPFMC                   
  could direct its attention toward the wanton waste.                          
                                                                               
  MR. LAUBER remarked he was intrigued with a recent speech                    
  given by Don Tyson of Tyson Chicken and Tyson Seafoods who                   
  is the owner of the largest factory trawler operation off                    
  the coast of Alaska.  He said Mr. Tyson indicated Tyson                      
  Chicken utilizes all of the chicken.  Mr. Lauber wondered                    
  why Mr. Tyson discards so much fish in his fishing                           
  operation.  He stated it is the position of PSPA that all                    
  fish should be brought to shore and if the fish is caught,                   
  it is kept; if it is kept, it is utilized.  He pointed out                   
  there are millions and millions of pounds of fish being                      
  wasted and at some point, the public is going to force the                   
  industry to clean up its act.                                                
                                                                               
  THERESA WEISER, SITKA, testified via teleconference and                      
  expressed support of HJR 59.  She felt the resolution is                     
  timely and appropriate especially in light of other problems                 
  being dealt with in the sport fishing industry.                              
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE made a motion to ADOPT CS HJR
  59(FSH).                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections.                        
  Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED.                                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE made a motion to MOVE CS HJR 59(FSH)                    
  with a zero fiscal note out of committee with INDIVIDUAL                     
  RECOMMENDATIONS.                                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections.                        
  Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED.                                             
  HB 496 - Sport Fish Guide Licensing                                          
                                                                               
  Number 143                                                                   
                                                                               
  PETE ECKLUND, AIDE, REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS, stated the                 
  guided sport fishery is an important and rapidly growing                     
  industry in the Alaskan economy, and will continue to grow                   
  and expand throughout the state.  The ability of the state                   
  to provide for sustainable development and sound, sensible                   
  management of the guided sport fishery is dependent upon the                 
  availability of complete information upon which to base                      
  decisions.  He stressed the goal of HB 496 is to provide a                   
  mechanism for the collection of crucial data regarding the                   
  guided sport fishery.                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND said in some parts of Alaska, the rapid growth                   
  in the charter industry has motivated sport fish guides to                   
  request a moratorium on further expansion.  While                            
  researching the feasibility of various limitation schemes,                   
  it was discovered that nearly every approach to a moratorium                 
  in the guided sport fishery for state managed species of                     
  fish would be unconstitutional.  He added since there is                     
  room for further growth in the guided sport fishery in many                  
  areas of the state, including parts of Southeast, it may be                  
  premature and unwise to pursue limitation.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 158                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND stated there is an incredible lack of hard data                  
  available regarding the guided sport fishery in Alaska.  In                  
  some parts of the state, not all, regulation requires                        
  vessels engaged in sport fish guiding to be registered.                      
  Registration of guides themselves is required in a few                       
  rivers, but not elsewhere.  He stressed that no uniform                      
  licensing procedure exists in Alaska.  Therefore, there is                   
  no information on who is actively engaged in sport fish                      
  guiding, how many clients are served, what catch rates are,                  
  and what rivers, streams, and marine waters are being                        
  utilized.                                                                    
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND stated without a means for gathering dependable                  
  information, it is impossible to monitor the activity or                     
  growth of the guided sport fishery on a statewide basis.  It                 
  is imperative for the state to have solid information to                     
  ensure the sustainable development of the industry and to                    
  ensure the sound management of the fishery resources upon                    
  which the industry depends.  He said this data collection                    
  would provide a picture on which the state could base any                    
  future decisions about whether or where limitation schemes                   
  might be feasible or desirable.  He pointed out that it is                   
  time to acknowledge this important growing industry and make                 
  sure that management decisions can be based on complete                      
  information, not on guesswork, perception and supposition.                   
  He explained that is what HB 496 is intended to accomplish.                  
                                                                               
  Number 175                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND stated HB 496 establishes a guided sport fishery                 
  license.  Each person who plans to engage in sport fishing,                  
  both on fresh and salt water, from a vessel or otherwise,                    
  will be required to purchase the license.  He said the                       
  Division of Sport Fish, ADF&G, will develop reports which                    
  license holders will be required to submit.  This will                       
  enable the state to build a data bank regarding the guided                   
  sport fishery.  He explained the costs of the guide                          
  licensing and data gathering and analysis will be funded by                  
  the revenues generated from the license fees.  Therefore,                    
  the program will be fiscally self-sustaining.                                
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND stated HB 496 does not impose any limitations on                 
  the number of guides or vessels in the state, or who can                     
  purchase the license to guide, nor does it affect their                      
  activities.  HB 496 is the first and most crucial step                       
  toward having solid data upon which to base sound management                 
  policy for the guided sport fishery in Alaska.                               
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND advised that the Fisheries Committee had made                    
  two changes to the bill.  The committee added intent                         
  language which clarifies it is the legislature's intent that                 
  program receipts from the sale of sportfish guide licenses                   
  go to the Division of Sport Fish, to be used for the data                    
  collection and analysis provided for in the bill.  He said                   
  the Fisheries Committee also made language changes which                     
  tightened up the definition of a sport fish guide.  He                       
  mentioned there has been some interest in the possibility of                 
  exempting guides from having to also obtain a business                       
  license each year.  He stated Representative Williams does                   
  have an amendment available to accomplish that if the                        
  committee wishes to consider it.                                             
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND stressed that HB 496 is a piece of forward                       
  looking legislation which five, ten, twenty years from now                   
  the charter industry and our states' resources will be                       
  better off because of its passage.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 211                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated he has worked as a sport fishing                 
  guide so he wanted the committee to be aware he may have a                   
  conflict of interest.                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN said it was mentioned that the                      
  program will be fiscally self-sustaining and yet there is a                  
  fiscal note.                                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND responded the fiscal note from ADF&G estimates                   
  the cost the first year to be $161,700 and the program                       
  receipts are above and beyond that figure.                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY said there are different fees for                  
  resident and nonresident.  He asked if it is possible to                     
  limit sport fish guiding permits to Alaska residents only.                   
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND replied that would be unconstitutional.                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER pointed out that in the fee                      
  chart for the state of Washington contained in members'                      
  folders, the resident salmon guide fee is $150 and the                       
  nonresident salmon guide fee is $730.                                        
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND also pointed out that those fees mentioned are                   
  for fresh water guiding.  He said there are also salmon                      
  charter and salt water guiding fees listed on the chart.                     
                                                                               
  Number 245                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON asked what type of fees Canada                    
  charges for sport fish guides.                                               
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND replied fees in the states of Oregon and                         
  Washington were primarily reviewed.                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said he is somewhat confused with the                  
  fiscal note.                                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND said someone from ADF&G will be testifying and                   
  can possibly clear up the confusion.                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked why, in the proposed                             
  legislation, the fees are not lower than the fees in the                     
  state of Washington, especially for nonresidents.                            
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said during past public hearings in                        
  December and January, $200 was arbitrarily chosen as a                       
  result of the charter boat operators suggesting that amount                  
  at both of those teleconferences.                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY stated in the fee chart for the state                  
  of Washington, there is a $480 fee for a resident, $785 for                  
  a nonresident, as well as an additional $100 surcharge which                 
  is supposed to be deposited in a regional fisheries                          
  enhancement fund.  He said while Alaska might not want to                    
  increase the cost to residents, he felt that the state                       
  should be in line with Washington on the nonresident                         
  charges.                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated there is a constitutionality issue                  
  involved.  The state is required to charge three times the                   
  amount for nonresidents.  He said the reason the charter                     
  boat operators in Ketchikan wanted the nonresident fee to be                 
  higher is because the charter boats from out of state are                    
  coming to Ketchikan.  By charging a high fee, the out of                     
  state charter boat operators might think twice whether or                    
  not they would like to pay the required amount to compete                    
  with the charter boat operators in Ketchikan and Southeast                   
  Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said while in Seattle over the weekend, he                 
  read in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer that there will be                    
  zero fishing in the Puget Sound area.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 319                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER added that the zero fishing is not                     
  just for Puget Sound, it goes all the way from the State of                  
  Washington down to Northern California.  He stressed as                      
  those areas are closed down to sport fishing, those people                   
  are going to be moving north to pursue their advocation.  He                 
  asked Mr. Ecklund to explain page 2, lines 4-9, and how it                   
  pertains to the Kenai River Special Management Area.  He                     
  asked if guides in that special area already require a                       
  registration fee.                                                            
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND said fees in the special management area are                     
  required by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) and                    
  are substantially higher than the proposed $200 resident                     
  fee.                                                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked what the fees are in that area.                  
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND replied there is a $50 nonrefundable application                 
  fee, an additional $450 fee for residents, $1,350 for                        
  nonresidents and an additional daily per client fee set by                   
  negotiation with DNR.                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if those funds go to DNR.                        
                                                                               
  PAUL KRASNOWSKI, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF SPORT FISH, ADF&G,                    
  responded the funds go into the General Fund.                                
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND added if a person has a guide license in that                    
  special management area and that area is an exclusive area,                  
  they will not pay the additional fee provided for in HB 496.                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out that nonresident fishermen                  
  are buying a license which is three times the cost of a                      
  resident license.  He expressed support for an increased fee                 
  for nonresident guides.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 368                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the special fees for the                      
  Kenai River Special Management Area are imposed by DNR                       
  through statute.                                                             
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI replied they are administrative regulations                   
  of DNR.                                                                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON clarified there is no statutory basis                  
  behind the fees charged in the Kenai River Special                           
  Management Area and asked if there are any limitations on                    
  the fees.                                                                    
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI stated the fee schedule is not set in                         
  statute.  The authority to set fees is in statute.  He said                  
  he is not aware of any limitations.                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated there is a limitation in that                    
  there has to be a relationship and the state cannot charge a                 
  million dollars in order to keep people out.  He said in                     
  regard to the Kenai River Special Management Area, the fees                  
  are an attempt to regulate the number of people in that                      
  area.  He stated there are days on which guides cannot work                  
  in that area.                                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY stated the differentiation in the                      
  proposed fees is a serious consideration on HB 496 and he                    
  stressed he is not convinced  the fees should not be                         
  increased.  He felt it is in the best interest of Alaska to                  
  get as much as possible from nonresident guides and he                       
  supports anything which discourages out of state guides                      
  coming to the state.  He asked if there is any reason not to                 
  raise the fees.                                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS replied there are some charter boat                        
  operators who are opposed to higher fees.  He said to attain                 
  the higher fees for nonresidents, using the formula                          
  required, the fees will also have to be higher for                           
  residents.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked if the Kenai River Special                       
  Management Area fees meet the formula.                                       
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND said it is a 3-1 ratio.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 449                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI stated that sport fish guiding in fresh water                 
  and charter operations in salt water provide an important                    
  service for both nonresident and resident sport fishermen in                 
  Alaska.  He said the service is growing and is a significant                 
  part of the state's tourism industry.  There currently are                   
  no statutory requirements to license or register guides or                   
  charter operators.  He explained there are Board of                          
  Fisheries regulations which require fresh water fishing                      
  guides in Cook Inlet and Southeast Alaska to register with                   
  ADF&G, and there also are regulations for charter operators                  
  in Cook Inlet and Southeast Alaska to register their vessels                 
  with ADF&G.                                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI said the department fishery management                        
  program is capable of maintaining fish stock health under                    
  present conditions.  However, continued growth in the                        
  guiding industry in some areas presents increasing                           
  challenges to the department's management activities as the                  
  years go on.  He stated even more important, at every                        
  meeting of the Board of Fisheries, an increasing number of                   
  regulatory proposals from the public on issues of management                 
  and fishery allocation, involving guides and charter                         
  operators, are being addressed.  He pointed out that most                    
  often the issues are based on public perceptions which                       
  cannot be substantiated, explained, or refuted on the basis                  
  of any agency information.                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI stated the creel survey is conducted only in                  
  some areas of the state, as it is expensive, and he stressed                 
  it is only a sampling process, just as the mail out survey                   
  is.  ADF&G only gets an estimate on the composite catch in                   
  the area.  The survey does not tell the department anything                  
  about individual fishermen.  It gives the department a                       
  mechanism to extrapolate total harvest.  He said there is no                 
  way to take creel survey, statewide harvest or mail in                       
  survey information and describe individual fishermen,                        
  individual charter operators, or individual guides and what                  
  their impact is on the resources, how many clients they are                  
  taking, etc.  The information which ADF&G presently gathers                  
  does not satisfy the needs which have been identified.                       
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI said ADF&G supports HB 496 since it will                      
  provide a mechanism by which the department can begin to                     
  accumulate information on the number of guides, the general                  
  areas in which they operate, the number of clients they                      
  serve, and the number of days fished.  He emphasized that HB
  496 requires the information about individual operations to                  
  be kept confidential, just as information currently                          
  collected on fish tickets about commercial fishermen is by                   
  law confidential.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 525                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI stated the information will prove essential                   
  to the Board of Fisheries' actions about management and                      
  allocations, will provide stability in the industry and                      
  assure that growth is consistent with resource health.  He                   
  added that after action in the Fisheries Committee, the                      
  fiscal note was revised.  He said the only change is that                    
  revenues will be deposited as program receipts into the                      
  General Fund.  The original intent was to put the revenues                   
  in the ADF&G fund to be expended for the program but it was                  
  determined that the revenues, by law, must go in the General                 
  Fund as program receipts.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 541                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY expressed concern in regard to the                     
  definition of sport fish guiding in that there may be a                      
  loophole for people who take their relatives out fishing.                    
  He did not think the definition allowed for that.                            
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI said the definition is a slight modification                  
  of the definition currently in regulation.  He stated the                    
  key phrase is "in exchange for compensation for services, or                 
  an agreement for compensation for services,...".  He                         
  explained if money is changing hands, other than just                        
  sharing expenses, it will constitute doing business as a                     
  guide.                                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated the total requirements for being                 
  a sport fishing guide is to buy a business license and label                 
  yourself as a sport fishing guide.  He said he is also aware                 
  of the requirements involved in being a big game guide.  He                  
  felt one of the reasons there are regulations on game guides                 
  is to ensure that the public is getting what they are paying                 
  for, just as there should be for sport fishing guides.  He                   
  did not feel the proposed legislation goes far enough.  He                   
  felt the state should begin to look at establishing                          
  requirements which prove that people have the knowledge and                  
  skill they sell.  He asked ADF&G to comment on whether or                    
  not the committee should be looking in the direction of big                  
  game guiding and establishing requirements.                                  
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI responded HB 496 addresses both fresh water                   
  fishing guides and charter operators and to some extent, the                 
  issues which Representative Bunde described are already part                 
  of the requirements for charter operators under Coast Guard                  
  licensing.  He said approximately five years ago there was                   
  proposed legislation to license guides in the state and the                  
  bills included requirements. He pointed out that those bills                 
  did not pass.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 625                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked Mr. Krasnowski to comment on the                     
  requirements currently in place and asked if those                           
  requirements should be added to the bill.                                    
                                                                               
  MR. KRASNOWSKI felt that other people planning to testify                    
  will describe those requirements.                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked if there will be a                               
  constitutional problem with having duality in regard to the                  
  Kenai River Special Management Area fees.  HB 496 proposes                   
  to charge one class of guides a fee, but for guides in the                   
  Kenai River Special Management Area another fee is charged.                  
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND said Representative Phillips asked that question                 
  in the Fisheries Committee and since that question was asked                 
  a legal opinion from the drafting attorney has been                          
  received.  It says, "In my opinion, the exemption does not                   
  violate the state or federal Constitutions."                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated he supports eliminating the                     
  provisions which create a special fee for people on the                      
  Kenai and raising the overall fees to be the same for                        
  everyone.  He felt there are as many, if not more guides in                  
  Southeast Alaska than there are on the Kenai River.  He                      
  stressed people are making a living off of the state's                       
  resource so the state should be charging something for that                  
  resource.                                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated the Kenai River Special Management                  
  Area is being managed by DNR.                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER felt his suggestion should be amended                  
  into the bill, the provisions which allow DNR to charge fees                 
  for that special area should be deleted, the fees should be                  
  higher, but the fees should be the same for all resident                     
  guides.                                                                      
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-31, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES disagreed.  He stated the Kenai                   
  River Special Management Area is an area which was created                   
  due to special problems and a large amount of money has been                 
  spent to focus on those problems.  He said to change that                    
  special management area without a series of hearings                         
  focusing on the issue would be premature.  He noted the                      
  fiscal note indicates that the fees will generate twice the                  
  revenues needed for the purpose of the bill.  He commented                   
  if it is determined that a higher fee should be charged, as                  
  a result of the information gathered, that can always be                     
  done in the future.  He did not see anything required in HB
  496 to charge a higher fee.                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said increasing charges for sport                      
  fishing guides will not increase the fees charged in the                     
  special management area.  He expressed concern that in the                   
  sponsor statement, it says the industry would like to see a                  
  limit put on the number of people fishing.  Although he is                   
  normally opposed to increasing costs to Alaska, he felt by                   
  having higher fees, especially a higher fee for nonresident                  
  guides to limit their activity, local sport fishing guides                   
  will be ahead in the long run.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 029                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated the issue before the committee                  
  is equity.  He said what is being discussed is having a user                 
  group pay for what they are having access to and what they                   
  are deriving their livelihood from.  He pointed out it is a                  
  resource that everyone owns.  If a decision is made to                       
  assess a fee, the issue becomes how much and whether it can                  
  be equitably enforced or assessed.  Why make a special class                 
  of people pay a different fee than those who are involved in                 
  the same advocation as they are in Southeast, Southwest, and                 
  anywhere in the state.  He felt that if a fee is going to be                 
  imposed, it should be imposed equally as opposed to creating                 
  a separate class.                                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES felt the state does not                       
  sufficiently collect enough money in the fishery resource                    
  area to effectively manage the resource.  She stated                         
  revenues are severely declining in the state and expressed                   
  fear that natural resource managers will not be able to do a                 
  proper job.  She said somewhere in the future, the state                     
  will have to pay the price.  She felt even though it is                      
  indicated in the fiscal note that there are more funds than                  
  what is required to implement HB 496, it still is not                        
  enough.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 070                                                                   
                                                                               
  FRANK HOMAN, COMMISSIONER, COMMERCIAL FISHERIES ENTRY                        
  COMMISSION, stated last year the commission worked with                      
  Representative Williams to look at the sport fish guiding                    
  industry in the Ketchikan area to determine if there was a                   
  way to establish a moratorium or stop the increase which was                 
  rapidly developing.  He said because the commission is                       
  involved in moratoriums and limitations for commercial                       
  fisheries, commission members sat in on several meetings to                  
  determine if they could work with the sport fishery in the                   
  same way.  He stated the commission's limitation is to                       
  commercial fisheries.                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. HOMAN stressed that what was clear in all of the                         
  discussions was that there is a severe lack of data                          
  available on which to manage the sport fish charter                          
  industry.  He felt HB 496 is a step in the right direction                   
  to gather information from individual operators to be used                   
  to manage the sport fishery more effectively.  He said on                    
  the commercial side of the commission's limitation program,                  
  there are individual catch records and income tax records                    
  and the commission conducts a lot of analysis in assigning                   
  limited entry permits.  He stressed the information existing                 
  currently in sport fish is not detailed, but rather is                       
  overall information which cannot be used to limit                            
  individuals.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 103                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY said Mr. Homan had mentioned the                       
  commission was not able to put any type of moratorium in                     
  place and asked if that was due to a lack of data.                           
                                                                               
  MR. HOMAN responded the commission is only authorized to                     
  place a moratorium on commercial fisheries, not sport                        
  fisheries.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked what it would require to                         
  authorize the commission for sport fisheries.                                
                                                                               
  MR. HOMAN stated it would take a constitutional amendment.                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY clarified there is no way the                          
  collection of sport fish information could have any bearing                  
  on future allocations of the resource.                                       
                                                                               
  MR. HOMAN replied not with the Commercial Fisheries Entry                    
  Commission, but the information could be available for                       
  structuring a moratorium or limitation on the sport fish                     
  charter industry itself through another system.                              
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked if the Commercial Fisheries                      
  Entry Commission has information on the relative amount of                   
  catch represented by the sport fish industry in Southeast                    
  versus the catch by the commercial fishing industry.  He                     
  wondered what impact the catches have on the resource on a                   
  percentage basis.                                                            
                                                                               
  MR. HOMAN replied ADF&G should answer that question because                  
  the commission only deals with commercial fisheries.                         
                                                                               
  Number 134                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE felt there is a semantics problem.  He                  
  stated sport caught fish are being discussed but in his                      
  opinion, there is no question that sport fish guiding is a                   
  commercial enterprise and should be regulated as commercial                  
  fishing.  He said sport fish guides are really commercial                    
  fishermen.  He reminded committee members that the guides                    
  will not be paying the proposed fees, the fishermen will pay                 
  the fees through what they are charged to use the guide.                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said while sport fish guiding may be                   
  considered a commercial entity, who are the guides taking                    
  out.  They are taking sport fishermen, not commercial                        
  fishermen.  He expressed concern about the definition of                     
  sport fish guiding.  He felt there may be a problem in the                   
  future whereby there is an operator who advertises and                       
  people stay in his/her lodge.  The guest pays for overnight                  
  accommodations, food, etc., but is not charged for the                       
  guiding on the river.  Therefore, the guide does not have to                 
  register as a guide because he/she is not being paid as a                    
  guide.  He thought the definition of sport fish guides needs                 
  to be tightened so it does not just reflect upon the                         
  activity of guiding on the river, but rather reflects the                    
  overall exchange of goods or services of the individual who                  
  is receiving the benefit.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 180                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked if the person in Representative                   
  Mulder's scenario who has the boat and is taking guests out                  
  is the same person who owns the lodge.                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER replied yes.                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated then that person is getting                      
  compensated for what he/she is doing because it is a part of                 
  the operation.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 201                                                                   
                                                                               
  RICHARD ANDREW, KETCHIKAN, testified via teleconference and                  
  expressed support for HB 496.  He felt the bill will do a                    
  lot to help the tourism industry and charter businesses in                   
  getting a stable allotment of fish.  He stated HB 496 will                   
  give the department the latitude and solid numbers to                        
  address the issues at hand.                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Mr. Andrew what his vocation is.                 
                                                                               
  MR. ANDREW replied he is a commercial fisherman, gillnetter                  
  and sport fishermen.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 225                                                                   
                                                                               
  MICHAEL LOCKABEY, WRANGELL, testified via teleconference and                 
  stated he is a commercial fisherman, sport fisherman,                        
  charter operator, and a seafood processor.  He stated there                  
  are 645 registrants in the halibut sport and commercial                      
  fisheries, which is about 50 percent of the total                            
  registrants in the state with the halibut commission for                     
  sport, and half of them are both sport and commercial.  He                   
  commented on the costs to do business:  He buys two business                 
  licenses annually; he buys a DEC permit costing $100 per                     
  year; processing shrimp costs five percent of the gross; for                 
  salmon harvested there is an aquaculture assessment of three                 
  percent gross and a one percent market assessment; licenses                  
  for scales cost $10 annually; it costs $650 annually to                      
  renew his permit and that permit cost $30,000 to buy; if he                  
  sets foot on forest service ground to take a fisherman on a                  
  stream, it costs three percent of the gross; he pays $180                    
  for a drug test for his Coast Guard license; every five                      
  years he renews his Coast Guard license at a cost of $80; he                 
  has an approved life raft which costs $750 per year to                       
  repack; and he takes annual first aid, CPR, etc.                             
                                                                               
  Number 275                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. LOCKABEY stated he would like to see the bill more                       
  Alaskanized.  (Indiscernible) and other resource users,                      
  resident and nonresident, do allow fees to go way beyond the                 
  three times.  He gave examples of game guide fees.  He said                  
  recently in conducting some research, he determined that the                 
  halibut sport catch is about 15 percent of the total catch                   
  in area 2-C which encompasses all of Southeast.  The king                    
  salmon sport harvest is set at 17 percent which is the                       
  allocation determined by the Board of Fisheries.  He added                   
  that level is going up to 20 percent in the next three                       
  years.  He told committee members he does not need another                   
  license or another $200 license fee.  He is not opposed to                   
  the compilation of data.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 294                                                                   
                                                                               
  HAROLD BAILEY, WRANGELL, testified via teleconference and                    
  stated he is primarily a commercial salmon fisherman.  He                    
  said his income has been severely reduced the past five                      
  years because of lower salmon prices due to farm fish and                    
  the recession.  He pointed out the state and federal                         
  government's income has also gone down due to the recession.                 
  He has diversified into processing and chartering to make                    
  more money.  His need to make more money is adding more                      
  taxes and licenses (indiscernible) raising fees and cutting                  
  business deductions.  He is squeezing his prices on one side                 
  and taxes and fees on the other side to the point of being                   
  forced out of business.  If that happens, the state will                     
  collect less license fees and taxes and both he and the                      
  state will lose.  He stated he is not opposed to charter                     
  boat operators paying their share, but he felt charter                       
  businesses are being hit from all sides and are trying to                    
  survive.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 317                                                                   
                                                                               
  BARBARA BINGHAM, MEMBER, SITKA CHARTER BOAT OPERATORS                        
  ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference and stated the                     
  method of tracking legitimate active charter operators is                    
  desirable, but she also believes it can be done in simpler                   
  and less costly ways, such as requiring more information on                  
  licenses and permits which operators already have.  She                      
  expressed opposition to HB 496 for several reasons.  The                     
  substantial fee charged will go into the General Fund and                    
  may or may not be allocated for its intended purpose.  In                    
  response to the discussion about use of the public resource,                 
  charter operators make a living providing access to the                      
  resource for the public who do own the resource.                             
                                                                               
  MS. BINGHAM pointed out there is a distinction between                       
  commercial operators who sell the fish they catch and                        
  charter operators who sell a service.  She said the bill                     
  contains no provision requiring operators to prove they have                 
  met other legal requirements such as a Coast Guard license,                  
  valid business license, membership in a drug testing                         
  program, etc.  It seems that anyone can receive a guiding                    
  license.  She stated it was determined during a recent                       
  Halibut Charter Working Group meeting that a mandatory law                   
  in this program would not be feasible because it would be                    
  difficult to implement and enforce.  The data collected                      
  would not necessarily be accurate and the data would be very                 
  expensive to collect and analyze.  She stressed that will                    
  most likely be the same for the reports proposed in HB 496.                  
                                                                               
  MS. BINGHAM felt the vague wording as to what information                    
  exactly will be required is disturbing.  She said it sounds                  
  like the reporting procedures could be substantially                         
  detailed and time consuming to produce with a possibility of                 
  new requirements at any time.  She stated in the words of                    
  Bill Foster, the association president, this bill will be                    
  like lying down and asking to have money taken from our                      
  billfolds and then be covered by paperwork.  She felt by                     
  working together, useful legislation can be created.                         
                                                                               
  Number 355                                                                   
                                                                               
  THERESA WEISER, SITKA, testified via teleconference and                      
  stated she agrees with most of Ms. Bingham's testimony.                      
  However, she does support the concept of fees for the study,                 
  but when she hears the fees are going to go into the General                 
  Fund as program receipts and may or may not be actually                      
  designated, she has concerns.  She stated there is a need                    
  for information to be gathered because there is going to be                  
  a continued glut into the charter operator industry,                         
  especially since commercial fishermen are saying they cannot                 
  make it in their own industry and are trying to diversify.                   
  She does not oppose diversification but she felt if                          
  commercial fishermen are going to step into the charter boat                 
  industry and cause hardships for present operators, they                     
  should pay to be there.  She agrees with across the board                    
  fees for all of Alaska and that nonresident guides should                    
  pay more to participate in the state.                                        
                                                                               
  ED JONES, PETERSBURG, testified via teleconference and                       
  expressed opposition to HB 496.  He supports the collection                  
  of information by ADF&G.  He does not agree with the fee                     
  amounts proposed to get the information.  He pointed out                     
  that in the past, when ADF&G had a need to get data from a                   
  fishery or a group of people, they budgeted for it and got                   
  the information.  He does not understand why charter                         
  operators are getting singled out as a user group who has to                 
  pay for the information gathering.  He noted he does not                     
  trust ADF&G, particularly the Division of Sport Fish.                        
                                                                               
  Number 410                                                                   
                                                                               
  MIKE COATES, SORRY CHARLIE CHARTERS, HOMER, testified via                    
  teleconference and expressed support for HB 496.  He felt                    
  the information gathered should be released on a timely                      
  basis to the public rather than releasing the information up                 
  to four years after it is collected.  He also felt the fees                  
  should remain with ADF&G.  He does not like the fact that                    
  the bill does not contain a sunset clause.  If the fees are                  
  being paid for collecting information for a study, he                        
  assumes the study will end at some point.  He stated the                     
  fees proposed are fine, but arbitrarily picking numbers does                 
  not make sense.                                                              
                                                                               
  SEAN MARTIN, PRESIDENT, HOMER CHARTER OPERATORS ASSOCIATION,                 
  testified via teleconference and stated the association                      
  supports HB 496 as long as the funds stay with ADF&G.  He                    
  said the association also would like to see the information                  
  gathered be available to the general public on a timely                      
  basis.  In the future, there will be a point reached where                   
  charter operators will be restricted because of overfishing                  
  in the Homer area and the only way to determine the proper                   
  management of the fishery is through accurate studies.  He                   
  felt once the study is complete, it should not cost as much                  
  to fund the study every year.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 460                                                                   
                                                                               
  JIM HESTON, VALDEZ, testified via teleconference and stated                  
  he is concerned about whether or not ADF&G will get the                      
  funds.  He also noted the bill does not outline what type of                 
  report will be used and expressed concern about the possible                 
  paperwork involved.  He agreed the information is needed but                 
  added if HB 496 is to gather information from a user group,                  
  he wondered why recreational fishermen are not included.  He                 
  expressed concern that anyone can pay $200 to be a sport                     
  fish guide which could mire the numbers.  He stated there                    
  may be a problem with the sport fish guide definition.                       
                                                                               
  JOHN GEORGE, REPRESENTATIVE, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL, stated                  
  the council supports HB 496 and feels the collection of                      
  information is pivotal in further discussions on allocations                 
  and resource management.  He said based on declining state                   
  revenues, it is appropriate that fees be charged to provide                  
  this type of data collection.  He felt there is an                           
  opportunity to eliminate the business license requirement                    
  for a sport guide and to convert that to a sports guide                      
  license at an equivalent or higher fee for specific                          
  gathering of information.  He noted the association would                    
  also like to see the funds go directly to ADF&G.                             
                                                                               
  MR. GEORGE said he has personally testified before the Board                 
  of Fisheries and one of the key issues which come up is the                  
  question of allocation.  He felt the collection of data as                   
  proposed in HB 496 will clarify many of those issues and                     
  allow the Board to do a much better job of resolving that                    
  issue.                                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if big game guides also have a                    
  business license.                                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN replied anyone in business has to                 
  have a business license.                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out that medical doctors are                    
  licensed and they also have to get a business license, and                   
  he felt if sport fish guides are licensed, they should also                  
  get a business license.                                                      
                                                                               
  MR. GEORGE stated there are specific classes of businesses                   
  which are excluded from licensing.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 610                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. George to comment on the                      
  proposed fees.                                                               
                                                                               
  MR. GEORGE felt the fees are a legislative prerogative.  He                  
  said if the business license is replaced with the sport fish                 
  guide license, that is $50 a year which could be included                    
  and there could be a surcharge for the gathering of                          
  information.  He noted there are possibilities for a                         
  reciprocity fee where if someone from Alaska goes to the                     
  state of Washington and pays a $750 fee, then a person                       
  coming to Alaska from Washington would also pay $750                         
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted the state of Washington does have a                  
  limited entry program.                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON said the only problem he has with a                    
  reciprocity fee program is if the state of Washington                        
  charges less, then Alaska would have to charge less.                         
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-32, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  DENNIS PETRE, SALCHA, testified via teleconference and                       
  expressed support of HB 496, but felt the study should                       
  encompass all fish taken by sporting groups.  He did not see                 
  a difference between fish being caught through the service                   
  of a sport guide and fish taken by a recreational fisherman.                 
  He said some boats are not just mom and pop operations; many                 
  have a crew.  He stated if the fees get too high, many                       
  operators will not be able to afford them.  He suggested a                   
  one time fee.                                                                
                                                                               
  BOB ELLIOTT, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and                     
  stated he is a registered hunting guide.  He pointed out he                  
  has never seen a power boat or salt water, but is strictly a                 
  fresh water fisherman in Interior Alaska.  He expressed                      
  opposition to HB 496 because all fresh water guides are                      
  going to be included and there is no justification for it.                   
  He pointed out that ADF&G, in conjunction with the                           
  University, sent out a survey to try and determine the                       
  economic impact of fishing guides on the state.  He said it                  
  is a very complicated survey and it will take several days                   
  with an accountant to complete.                                              
                                                                               
  MR. ELLIOTT is fearful that once the state begins to license                 
  fish guides, there will be a myriad of statutes and                          
  regulations.  He said thus far all that has been discussed                   
  is salt water fish and boats.  He stated the legislature                     
  needs to remember that there are operators in the Interior                   
  who are different than the salt water guides.                                
                                                                               
  Number 050                                                                   
                                                                               
  DONALD WESTLUND, KETCHIKAN, testified via teleconference and                 
  stated he is a charter boat operator.  He expressed                          
  opposition to HB 496.  He felt the bill is strictly a                        
  revenue generating bill.  He stated he does not dispute that                 
  he is not a commercial entity, but what he does dispute is                   
  that he does not catch the fish, his customers do.                           
  Therefore, if a fee is going to be imposed upon the user of                  
  a public resource, the amount of the fee should be based                     
  upon the degree of impact on the resource, meaning the more                  
  a person catches, the more the person should pay.  He                        
  pointed out that commercial fishermen catch 98 percent of                    
  the salmon resource in the state.  He said without a                         
  business license, he cannot go to the borough and get a                      
  retail license.  Without a business license, it is not                       
  possible to pay sales tax and the borough he lives in will                   
  not receive any revenue from his sales.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 073                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND stated he checked with the revenue departments                   
  both in Ketchikan and Juneau and was told there will be no                   
  problem with accepting a specialized license from the state                  
  in lieu of a business license.                                               
                                                                               
  MR. WESTLUND said a commercial fisherman should be paying a                  
  tax since he begins and ends his fishing trip from                           
  Ketchikan.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ECKLUND said he was only answering the question about                    
  the business license exemption.  He stated if a person                       
  currently pays taxes and uses a business license for                         
  identification, the borough will accept a special license by                 
  the state or a sport fish guide license in lieu of a                         
  business license for tax purposes.                                           
                                                                               
  ROBERT WARD, A-WARD CHARTERS, HOMER, testified via                           
  teleconference and expressed opposition to HB 496.  He                       
  stated he has a problem with an arbitrarily picked fee                       
  schedule and wondered why a fee cannot be determined based                   
  on what is needed to accomplish the study.  He asked how HB
  496 will affect a charter business which owns a multiple                     
  number of boats and has nonresident crew members.  He stated                 
  at one meeting of the Halibut Charter Working Group, ADF&G                   
  says they have enough information to consider going into a                   
  limited entry program for halibut charters, but yet now the                  
  state is looking for $200-$700 from operators to fund an                     
  information gathering.  He stated the air taxi people have                   
  been left out of the bill and wondered if they should also                   
  have a guide license.                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. WARD pointed out that charters are only 50 percent of                    
  the sport equation of all removals and felt that should be                   
  proportioned out properly.  If charters are not having an                    
  impact on the resource and are 50 percent of the sport,                      
  which is four percent of the total, charters should only be                  
  responsible for two percent.  He stated if the resource says                 
  a study is needed, then do a study and fund it                               
  appropriately.                                                               
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated the arbitrary fee schedule was                      
  brought up by the charter boat operators in past hearings.                   
  He also pointed out the halibut commission is a federal                      
  issue not pertaining to this issue.  He thought the air taxi                 
  guides are covered in HB 496 if they are assisting with                      
  fishing.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 143                                                                   
                                                                               
  TIM EVERS, NINILCHIK, testified via teleconference and                       
  agreed with Ms. Bingham's comments.  He asked what is being                  
  done with the money currently being collected off the Kenai                  
  River Management plan.                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER commented he called DNR to get a                       
  response in regard to the number of permits issued on the                    
  Kenai, both resident and nonresident, and the amount of                      
  funds collected as well as the use of those funds.  He said                  
  hopefully at the next meeting he will have those answers.                    
                                                                               
  PAUL GOEDERT, NINILCHIK, testified via teleconference and                    
  expressed support of HB 496 but felt a sunset clause is                      
  needed.  Once a person starts giving money to the government                 
  it is hard to get it stopped.  He stated the lowering of the                 
  resident fee would be beneficial since people in his area                    
  are already paying several other fees.   There needs to be a                 
  recognition of the fact that people are paying already for,                  
  which according to the Constitution, should be free access                   
  to the fishery.                                                              
                                                                               
  ROGER WATNEY, ANCHOR POINT, testified via teleconference and                 
  expressed agreement with those testifying from Homer.  He                    
  stated the data is needed, but felt it is a high price to                    
  attain that information.  He urged committee members to                      
  lower the resident fees.                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he does not believe the                            
  Constitution guarantees free access, just equal access.                      
                                                                               
  GARY PLUMB, KETCHIKAN, testified via teleconference and                      
  expressed support of the concept of HB 496.  He felt the                     
  information is needed but thought there should be an easier                  
  way to attain it.  He suggested a mandatory survey at the                    
  end of each season with a requirement that if the survey is                  
  not completed, the charter operator cannot register the                      
  following year.  He stressed HB 496 should include insurance                 
  requirements, drug testing requirements, etc.  He felt if                    
  people are allowed to continue to come into Alaska and make                  
  use of the industry, they should have to have proof of their                 
  capability of operating in the state.                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said while at this point the priority                   
  may be data gathering, this is a resource state and there is                 
  a need for the state to make money off of its resources.  He                 
  pointed out the ADF&G budget keeps getting lower and lower                   
  and there needs to be a greater source of income.  HB 496                    
  provides for not only data gathering, but also a source of                   
  income for the state.                                                        
                                                                               
  ANNOUNCEMENTS                                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the committee will meet on                       
  Wednesday, March 16 at 8:15 a.m. to hear HB 404 and HB 238.                  
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  There being no further business to come before the House                     
  Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting                 
  at 10:07 a.m.                                                                

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