Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/09/1994 08:15 AM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                          March 9, 1994                                        
                            8:15 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Bill Williams, Chairman                                       
  Representative Bill Hudson, Vice Chairman                                    
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  Representative Pat Carney                                                    
  Representative John Davies                                                   
  Representative David Finkelstein                                             
  Representative Joe Green                                                     
  Representative Jeannette James                                               
  Representative Eldon Mulder                                                  
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
  OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                    
                                                                               
  Senator Mike Miller                                                          
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  SB 46:    "An Act relating to moose farming and relating to                  
            game farming."                                                     
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE                                        
                                                                               
  HB 238:   "An Act relating to the oil and hazardous                          
            substance release response fund, repealing the oil                 
            and hazardous substance municipal impact                           
            assistance program and the authority in law by                     
            which marine highway vessels may be designed and                   
            constructed to aid in oil and hazardous substance                  
            spill cleanup in state marine water using money in                 
            the oil and hazardous substance release response                   
            fund, amending requirements relating to the                        
            revision of state and regional master prevention                   
            and contingency plans, altering requirements                       
            applicable to liens for recovery of state                          
            expenditures related to oil or hazardous                           
            substances, relating to a restoration standard in                  
            certain state environmental laws, modifying                        
            definitions of related terms, amending the manner                  
            of computing the amounts required for the                          
            suspension and reimposition of the oil                             
            conservation surcharge, relating to fees to be                     
            charged and collected by the Department of                         
            Environmental Conservation, and annulling a                        
            regulation related to costs for certain site                       
            restorations."                                                     
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE                                        
                                                                               
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  SENATOR MIKE MILLER                                                          
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 423                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska   99801-1182                                                  
  Phone:  465-4976                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Prime sponsor SB 46                                     
                                                                               
  JOHN CRAMER, Director                                                        
  Division of Agriculture                                                      
  Department of Natural Resources                                              
  P.O. Box 949                                                                 
  Palmer, Alaska   99645                                                       
  Phone:  745-7200                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Stated most concerns regarding SB 46                    
                       have been addressed and answered                        
                       questions                                               
                                                                               
  BILL WARD                                                                    
  Ward Farms                                                                   
  P.O. Box 290                                                                 
  Soldotna, Alaska   99669                                                     
  Phone:  262-5135                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 46                                         
                                                                               
  WAYNE REGELIN, Deputy Director                                               
  Division of Wildlife Conservation                                            
  Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                           
  P.O. Box 25526                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska   99802-5526                                                  
  Phone:  465-4190                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Expressed concerns regarding SB 46                      
                                                                               
  LEE PUTNAM, Representative                                                   
  Ketchikan Sports and Wildlife Club                                           
  6005 Roosevelt Drive                                                         
  Ketchikan, Alaska   99901                                                    
  Phone:  225-7694                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 46                                         
                                                                               
  ROBERT SHUMAKER                                                              
  P.O. Box 3712                                                                
  Palmer, Alaska   99645                                                       
  Phone:  746-4453                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 46                                         
                                                                               
  LEONARD MOFFITT                                                              
  P.O. Box 748                                                                 
  Palmer, Alaska   99645                                                       
  Phone:  745-3384                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 46                                         
                                                                               
  SANDRA ARNOLD, Representative                                                
  Alaska Wildlife Alliance                                                     
  P.O. Box 202022                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska   99520                                                    
  Phone:  277-0897                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed SB 46                                           
                                                                               
  BOB LOCHNER                                                                  
  3325 Tarwater                                                                
  Anchorage, Alaska   99508                                                    
  Phone:  276-2860                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 46                                         
                                                                               
  CAROL JENSEN                                                                 
  8451 Greenhill Way                                                           
  Anchorage, Alaska   99502                                                    
  Phone:  344-7078                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed SB 46                                           
                                                                               
  STANLEY NED, Representative                                                  
  Tanana Chiefs Conference                                                     
  122 1st Avenue                                                               
  Fairbanks, Alaska   99701                                                    
  Phone:  452-8251                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed SB 46                                           
                                                                               
  JEREMY WELTON                                                                
  6810 Steese Highway                                                          
  Fairbanks, Alaska   99712                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 46                                         
                                                                               
  OPAL WELTON                                                                  
  6810 Steese Highway                                                          
  Fairbanks, Alaska   99712                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 46                                         
                                                                               
  DOUG WELTON                                                                  
  6810 Steese Highway                                                          
  Fairbanks, Alaska   99712                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Supported SB 46                                         
                                                                               
  MEREDITH MARSHALL                                                            
  429 Edmond Street                                                            
  Ketchikan, Alaska   99901                                                    
  Phone:  225-2134                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Undetermined                                            
                                                                               
  STAN STEPHENS, President                                                     
  Regional Citizens' Advisory Council                                          
    of Prince William Sound                                                    
  P.O. Box 1297                                                                
  Valdez, Alaska   99686                                                       
  Phone:  835-4731                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 238                                          
                                                                               
  NANCY LETHCOE, President                                                     
  Alaska Wilderness, Recreation and Tourism Association                        
  P.O. Box 1353                                                                
  Valdez, Alaska   99686                                                       
  Phone:  835-5300                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed any change but if change is                     
                       necessary, supported HB 238, version Y                  
                                                                               
  THEA THOMAS                                                                  
  P.O. Box 1566                                                                
  Cordova, Alaska   99574                                                      
  Phone:  424-5266                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed any change but if change is                     
                       necessary, supported HB 238, version Y                  
                                                                               
  KELLY WEAVERLING                                                             
  P.O. Box 895                                                                 
  Cordova, Alaska   99574                                                      
  Phone:  424-5205                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed any change but if change is                     
                       necessary, supported HB 238, version Y                  
                                                                               
  SALLY KABISCH                                                                
  P.O. Box 467                                                                 
  Homer, Alaska   99603                                                        
  Phone:  235-4060                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 238                                          
                                                                               
  PAUL SEATON                                                                  
  58360 Bruce Drive                                                            
  Homer, Alaska   99603                                                        
  Phone:  235-6342                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 238                                          
                                                                               
  KRISTIN STAHL-JOHNSON                                                        
  P.O. Box 2661                                                                
  Kodiak, Alaska   99615                                                       
  Phone:  486-4684                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed any change but if change is                     
                       necessary, supported HB 238, version Y                  
                                                                               
  KEVIN HARUN, Director                                                        
  Alaska Center for the Environment                                            
  510 M Street                                                                 
  Anchorage, Alaska   99501                                                    
  Phone:  274-3621                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed any change but if change is                     
                       necessary, supported HB 238, version Y                  
                                                                               
  RANDY MCGOVERN                                                               
  1611 Carr                                                                    
  Fairbanks, Alaska   99709                                                    
  Phone:  451-0124                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed any change but if change is                     
                       necessary, supported HB 238                             
                                                                               
  HILLARY SCHAEFER                                                             
  8.5 Mile Murphy Dome Road                                                    
  Fairbanks, Alaska   99725                                                    
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed any change but if change is                     
                       necessary, supported HB 238                             
                                                                               
  KARL BECKER, Representative                                                  
  Prince William Sound Conservation Alliance                                   
  P.O. Box 1185                                                                
  Cordova, Alaska   99574                                                      
  Phone:  424-7466                                                             
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed any change but if change is                     
                       necessary, supported HB 238                             
                                                                               
  DAN DEL MISSIER                                                              
  144 W. Pioneer Avenue                                                        
  Homer, Alaska   99603                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 238                                          
                                                                               
  ALAN PARKS                                                                   
  P.O. Box 3339                                                                
  Homer, Alaska   99603                                                        
  POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed HB 238                                          
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  SB  46                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: AUTHORIZE MOOSE FARMING                                         
  SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) MILLER,Frank,Pearce,Sharp,Taylor;                     
  REPRESENTATIVE(S) Therriault                                                 
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/14/93        60    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/14/93        60    (S)   RESOURCES, FINANCE                               
  01/15/93        76    (S)   COSPONSOR:  LINCOLN                              
  01/29/93       189    (S)   COSPONSOR:  SHARP                                
  02/01/93              (S)   RES AT 3:30 PM BUTROVICH RM 205                  
  02/01/93              (S)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  02/03/93              (S)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  02/05/93       240    (S)   RES RPT  4DP                                     
  02/05/93       240    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE (F&G)                           
  02/17/93              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FIN 518                   
  02/17/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  03/01/93              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FIN 518                   
  03/01/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  03/03/93       588    (S)   FIN RPT CS 5DP 1DNP  NEW TITLE                   
  03/03/93       588    (S)   FISCAL NOTE TO SB & CS (DNR)                     
  03/03/93       588    (S)   ZERO FNS TO CS (F&G, DEC)                        
  03/03/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  03/09/93              (S)   RLS AT 12:15 PM FAHRENKAMP                       
                              ROOM 203                                         
  03/09/93              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  03/10/93       710    (S)   RULES RPT 3 CAL 1NR   3/10/93                    
  03/10/93       714    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                             
  03/10/93       714    (S)   FIN  CS ADOPTED Y14 N5 E1                        
  03/10/93       715    (S)   AM NO  1     FAILED  Y5 N14 E1                   
  03/10/93       716    (S)   AM NO  2     FAILED  Y7 N12 E1                   
  03/10/93       717    (S)   AM NO  3     FAILED  Y8 N11 E1                   
  03/10/93       715    (S)   AM NO  4     FAILED  Y8 N11 E1                   
  03/10/93       716    (S)   ADVANCE TO 3RD READING FLD                       
                              Y11 N8 E1                                        
  03/10/93       719    (S)   THIRD READING 3/11 CALENDAR                      
  03/10/93       723    (S)   COSPONSOR:  TAYLOR                               
  03/11/93       755    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME                              
                              CSSB 46(FIN)                                     
  03/11/93       755    (S)   PASSED Y11 N8 E1                                 
  03/11/93       756    (S)   ADAMS NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                  
  03/11/93       757    (S)   COSPONSOR WITHDRAWN:  LINCOLN                    
  03/12/93       784    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP-IN THIRD READING                  
  03/12/93       785    (S)   PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION                        
                              Y12 N7 E1                                        
  03/12/93       786    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                               
  03/15/93       642    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/15/93       642    (H)   RESOURCES, FINANCE                               
  03/15/93       658    (H)   CROSS SPONSOR(S): THERRIAULT                     
  04/16/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  04/17/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  04/19/93              (H)   RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124                      
  04/19/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  02/18/94              (H)   RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124                      
  02/18/94              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  03/09/94              (H)   RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 238                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: OIL/HAZARDOUS SUBS. FUND,TAX,PLANS                              
  SPONSOR(S): SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON OIL AND GAS                                 
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  03/19/93       707    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/19/93       708    (H)   RESOURCES, STATE AFFAIRS                         
  03/24/93              (H)   RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/24/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  04/07/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  04/07/93              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  04/14/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  04/16/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  04/17/93              (H)   RES AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 124                      
  04/17/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  11/12/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  02/23/94              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  03/02/94              (H)   RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/02/94              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  03/09/94              (H)   RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-28, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  The House Resources Committee was called to order by                         
  Chairman Bill Williams at 8:20 a.m.  Members present at the                  
  call to order were Representatives Williams, Carney, Davies,                 
  Green, and James.  Members absent were Representatives                       
  Hudson, Bunde, and Mulder.                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced there is a quorum present.  He                   
  advised the meeting is on teleconference with Anchorage,                     
  Cordova, Delta Junction, Fairbanks, Homer, Ketchikan, Mat-                   
  Su, Nome, Seward, Kenai/Soldotna, Valdez, and Kenny Lake.                    
  SB 46 - Authorize Moose Farming                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated it is the committee's third hearing                 
  on SB 46.  At the last hearing, a lot of testimony was taken                 
  and at the end of the hearing, Senator Miller was requested                  
  to work with state agencies to draft a proposed substitute                   
  version.  He said Senator Miller's office, the Alaska                        
  Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G), and the Department of                   
  Natural Resources (DNR) had met and the proposed committee                   
  substitute for SB 46 is in committee members' folders.                       
                                                                               
  Number 028                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR MIKE MILLER, PRIME SPONSOR SB 46, stated in working                  
  with the two departments, 95 percent of the problems on the                  
  original version, which passed out of the Senate have been                   
  worked out, and stressed the last five percent can be the                    
  most difficult.  He felt the remaining problem is a                          
  philosophical problem.  He explained the remaining problem                   
  is on page 4, section 4 where current statute is being                       
  amended in the definition of game farm animal.  Currently                    
  the statute includes bison, elk, reindeer and musk oxen and                  
  being added are caribou, moose and Sitka black-tailed deer.                  
  He noted ADF&G has a problem with that addition.                             
                                                                               
  Number 040                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER believed the department's problem with the                    
  ability to set up an experimental animal husbandry program                   
  has been resolved on page 8, subsection (c).  It is                          
  envisioned that moose and Sitka black-tailed deer will                       
  probably be included in that program.                                        
                                                                               
  (CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVES                 
  HUDSON, BUNDE, AND FINKELSTEIN joined the committee.)                        
                                                                               
  Number 061                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES asked what the impetus is for                     
  adding caribou, moose, and Sitka black-tailed deer to the                    
  game farm definition.                                                        
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER replied caribou, under the 1937 federal                       
  provision, cannot be farmed unless they are farmed by a                      
  Native group.  He felt caribou should be left in the                         
  definition because of lawsuits ongoing with the federal                      
  government.  Taking caribou out of the definition would be a                 
  capitulation to the federal government on the issue.  He                     
  said Sitka black-tailed deer are a farmable animal.  In                      
  regard to moose, once something is out of a statute and                      
  there may be a promise at some point later to add it to the                  
  statute, he said it is usually easier said than done.  He                    
  thought it will be better to include moose in the statute                    
  and the experimental process and if it does not work out, a                  
  license may never be issued for moose farming.  On the other                 
  hand, it may be determined that a license can be issued but                  
  if it is not in the statute, a license cannot be issued.                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN said moose are not a herd-type                      
  animal and are notoriously inefficient.  He asked why                        
  someone would want to domesticate moose.                                     
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER agreed and stated he would never propose                      
  farming moose himself, but he knows there is at least one                    
  individual in the audience who would like to farm moose.  He                 
  added moose farming is one of those things that unless it is                 
  tried, how does one know whether or not it will be                           
  successful.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 098                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said on page 8, in subsection (d)(2),                   
  it states "demonstrated the ability to properly care for..."                 
  and mentioned his mind thinks of dairy farms where an                        
  animal, which has been domesticated for thousands of years,                  
  lives in hideous conditions.                                                 
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER felt that ADF&G will not allow that to happen                 
  as there are going to be tight, stringent regulations.                       
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if anyone else had asked for the                     
  three new species to be added to the game farm definition.                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER replied there had been one individual who had                 
  asked for Sitka black-tailed deer to be added.  Senator                      
  Miller added caribou because he felt it was important to do                  
  so because of the lawsuits.                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked what lawsuits he was referring to.                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR MILLER replied there are a number of lawsuits filed                  
  against the federal government by the state of Alaska on a                   
  number of issues and added that the caribou issue dates back                 
  to 1937.                                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PAT CARNEY expressed support for leaving                      
  caribou in the definition.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 134                                                                   
                                                                               
  JOHN CRAMER, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF AGRICULTURE, DNR, stated                  
  most of the original concerns on SB 46 have been addressed.                  
  He pointed out that game farming is a viable industry in                     
  Alaska.  There is a need for SB 46 to help the industry as                   
  well as allow the department to draft regulations to make                    
  the industry even more viable.  He said there are problems                   
  on SB 46 yet to be addressed but he felt the problems can be                 
  resolved.                                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE stated there will be oversight                      
  involved and asked Mr. Cramer to speak to the fiscal impact.                 
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER replied that DNR has a fiscal note of $10,000 and                 
  that money will primarily be used for travel to sites for                    
  on-site evaluations.  He said in regard to Representative                    
  Green's statement about dairy cows, he did not feel the game                 
  farming industry will involve populations in a confined                      
  setting.                                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if dairy cows are kept in a barn                  
  the entire winter.                                                           
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER said some are.  He noted it depends on whether or                 
  not it is a confinement operation.                                           
                                                                               
  (CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that REPRESENTATIVE                  
  MULDER had joined the committee at 8:27 p.m.)                                
                                                                               
  Number 176                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS said there have been many discussions in                   
  regard to disease problems and asked Mr. Cramer to comment.                  
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER responded the state does not allow the                            
  importation of moose and Sitka black-tailed deer into the                    
  state.  Therefore, those animals cannot be brought into                      
  Alaska or purchased from outside the state and brought into                  
  the state to be farmed.  He said the only source of animals                  
  will be from ADF&G and from the resources currently in the                   
  state.  He stated disease is controlled by DEC and stressed                  
  they do a good job, proven by the game farms already in                      
  place.                                                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked the viability of game farming                    
  the three new animals listed in the definition.                              
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER replied there are farms outside the state                         
  currently farming the animals and are successful.  He could                  
  not speculate whether or not the farming can be accomplished                 
  in Alaska.                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES requested a list of operations who                     
  farm the three animals in the lower 48.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 210                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN asked if there are places                   
  where caribou are being farmed.                                              
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER replied there are farms outside of the Seward                     
  Peninsula where there are open range grazing type animals in                 
  confinement type operations.  He added there are confined                    
  caribou operations in the lower 48.                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN said he did not understand                        
  Section 16, on page 7 which says, "After a person acquires                   
  an animal under this section for commercial purposes, a                      
  license or permit from the department is not required in                     
  order to possess the animal."                                                
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER stated that section is referring to an animal                     
  which is obtained through the experimental animal husbandry                  
  permit from ADF&G.  Once the animal is turned over to                        
  private ownership, the person is not required to continue to                 
  have the experimental permit but rather to have a regular                    
  game farm license.                                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN disagreed and said the language                   
  states "a license or permit," not that particular license.                   
  He asked where "a license or permit" connects with an                        
  experimental permit.                                                         
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER replied the experimental permit is mentioned in                   
  the language prior to the section being referred to                          
  beginning on line 7, page 7.                                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN felt the entire section is                        
  extremely confusing.  He also thought the final sentence in                  
  Section 16 is confusing where it states, "A license or                       
  permit from the department is not required in order to                       
  import, export, or possess a game farm animal for commercial                 
  purposes under a game farming license."  He stated it does                   
  not make sense in the context of what is being discussed.                    
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER stated the animals which can be imported into the                 
  state are elk, musk oxen, and bison.  He said the other                      
  animals listed cannot.  He thought the language is                           
  addressing those animals specifically.                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN disagreed that it does not apply                  
  only to those species because on page 4, the definition of                   
  game farm animal includes bison, caribou, elk, moose, Sitka                  
  black-tailed deer, reindeer, and musk oxen.                                  
                                                                               
  MR. CRAMER pointed out that current statute defines game                     
  farm animals as musk oxen, bison, and elk.                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated the proposed legislation                   
  will include all of the species.  He pointed out the new law                 
  will say, "A license or permit from the department is not                    
  required in order to import, export, or possess a game farm                  
  animal for commercial purposes under a game farming                          
  license." and game farm animal includes all seven animals.                   
  He thought perhaps there is a drafting problem.                              
                                                                               
  Number 307                                                                   
                                                                               
  BILL WARD, WARD FARMS, SOLDOTNA, stated he currently raises                  
  elk and will soon have musk oxen.  He said musk oxen, elk,                   
  reindeer, and bison will not be affected by any action taken                 
  on SB 46, as they presently are a legal animal to farm.  He                  
  stated SB 46 will help clean up regulatory power to ensure                   
  those animals, and any others added, are managed in a way to                 
  make the industry more successful and viable.  He felt the                   
  animal welfare issue is more of an issue than disease.  SB
  46 contains language ensuring that animal welfare concerns                   
  are addressed.  Mr. Ward said from a commercial owner's                      
  aspect, animal welfare is critical.                                          
                                                                               
  MR. WARD stated there are many provisions in SB 46 which                     
  will help create a strong and safe industry and one that is                  
  pleasing to the public perception.  He noted the remaining                   
  problems on the bill are a matter of semantics.  The closing                 
  issues not resolved are whether or not caribou, moose, and                   
  Sitka black-tailed deer are going to be included under the                   
  definition of game farm animal.  He said the Administration                  
  does not want those animals classified as a game farm animal                 
  but rather wants to allow people with those animals to go                    
  through the animal husbandry permit process.  Once they                      
  qualified and complied with that process, they could then                    
  apply to have those animals added to the list.  Senator                      
  Miller's office was concerned the statute did not contain                    
  strong enough language to ever force that to happen and                      
  those people would be stuck under a never ending permit,                     
  never being allowed to gain ownership after investing a lot                  
  of time and money.                                                           
                                                                               
  MR. WARD noted that both versions of the bill which have                     
  been presented accomplish the same thing.  For moose,                        
  caribou, and Sitka black-tailed deer, a person must go                       
  through the animal husbandry permit process and comply with                  
  strict guidelines, which will be established by ADF&G,                       
  before there is any opportunity to own the animals.  He felt                 
  there is too much to gain in order to lose the proposed                      
  legislation due to differences of opinion on the way the                     
  wording should be presented.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 362                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked Mr. Ward if he is interested in                   
  farming any of the new proposed game farm animals.                           
                                                                               
  MR. WARD replied he is not, as he is happy with the animals                  
  he is currently raising.                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked Mr. Ward how many animals does                   
  he currently farm.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 370                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. WARD replied he has 67 elk farmed on 160 acres                           
  currently, with another 80 acres to be added soon.                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON wondered if moose will require                         
  additional acreage.                                                          
                                                                               
  MR. WARD said he does not have the knowledge to answer the                   
  question but in talking with other people, his understanding                 
  is that moose require a lot of land to support themselves,                   
  especially since they are a solitary animal.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 385                                                                   
                                                                               
  WAYNE REGELIN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF WILDLIFE                         
  CONSERVATION, DNR, stated there are many good provisions in                  
  SB 46 which will help the game farm industry, and the                        
  department supports those provisions.  The department is                     
  concerned, however, with the inclusion of Sitka black-tailed                 
  deer, caribou, and moose in the definition of game farm                      
  animals and believes it is wise to keep those three species                  
  separate.  He pointed out what the department attempted to                   
  keep in SB 46 is to allow moose, caribou, and Sitka black-                   
  tailed deer to be held by individuals under an experimental                  
  animal husbandry permit under the department's authority.                    
  Regulations would then be developed by DNR to establish                      
  guidelines under which the three species could be added if                   
  they are successful as game farm species.                                    
                                                                               
  MR. REGELIN stated the department feels it is important to                   
  keep game farming separate from the experimental animal                      
  husbandry permits.  He said he was also confused on some of                  
  the language contained in the new version because there is a                 
  mingling of Title 30 and Title 16; one is DNR regulations                    
  and one is ADF&G regulations, and statutory responsibilities                 
  are contained in both titles.  He felt it will be a legal                    
  morass for DNR and ADF&G to have overlapping and confusing                   
  authorities under game farming.                                              
                                                                               
  MR. REGELIN said another concern of the department is that                   
  under the experimental animal husbandry permit, ownership is                 
  retained by the state but would allow the meat to be sold.                   
  The department is concerned about allowing state property to                 
  be sold.  He felt there is a possibility of resolving the                    
  issues and concerns relating to SB 46 or if they cannot be                   
  resolved, let the legislative process take its course.                       
                                                                               
  Number 429                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE agreed with the concern regarding the                   
  sale of state property, especially something as perishable                   
  as meat.                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS felt there are going to be incentives to                   
  poach animals.                                                               
                                                                               
  MR. REGELIN responded the Division of Fish and Wildlife                      
  Protection have concerns regarding that issue also.                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN requested that at some point a                    
  version of SB 46 be presented which represents the point of                  
  view expressed by Mr. Regelin.                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY stated in 1979 he struggled with the                   
  same issues being discussed in regard to farming bison and                   
  some of the same arguments were heard.  He pointed out that                  
  bison has become a good animal for farming and because some                  
  people feel it is not economically feasible to farm moose                    
  does not mean that someone should not be allowed to try.                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS expressed concern regarding poaching of                    
  Sitka black-tailed deer.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 488                                                                   
                                                                               
  LEE PUTNAM, REPRESENTATIVE, KETCHIKAN SPORTS AND WILDLIFE                    
  CLUB, testified via teleconference and stated SB 46 provides                 
  an opportunity for potential income in rural areas which                     
  presently have few opportunities to make money.  The farming                 
  of game animals, with proper restraint, can be and has been                  
  profitable in other countries.  If the rules and regulations                 
  are strict enough to protect the resource, but loose enough                  
  to allow game farmers to profit, the Ketchikan Sports and                    
  Wildlife Club feels that game farming in Alaska can be                       
  successful.  The club urges passage of SB 46.                                
                                                                               
  ROBERT SHUMAKER, PALMER, testified via teleconference and                    
  stated he is in the cattle and swine business and is                         
  interested in developing an additional business in game                      
  animals.  He felt the option of game farming should be open                  
  to any member of the public.  He expressed concern with                      
  lines 20 and 21, on page 5 of the original version of the                    
  bill which states, "A person who receives moose under (a) of                 
  this section after the effective date of this subsection may                 
  not raise moose and domestic livestock in the same fenced                    
  area."  He said if the intent is to domesticate animals, he                  
  felt there is a need to be able to farm game farm and                        
  domesticated animals together.                                               
                                                                               
  MR. SHUMAKER said reliance on the veterinarian is important,                 
  but he felt there should be something in the bill which                      
  provides for the use of information ADF&G already has since                  
  they are already farming moose.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 572                                                                   
                                                                               
  LEONARD MOFFITT, PALMER, testified via teleconference and                    
  agreed with Mr. Shumaker's comments.  He stated that minimum                 
  government involvement is necessary for economic success in                  
  game farming.  He felt game farming can help offset the                      
  decline in oil revenue.                                                      
                                                                               
  SANDRA ARNOLD, REPRESENTATIVE, ALASKA WILDLIFE ALLIANCE,                     
  testified via teleconference and stated the Alliance                         
  strongly opposes moose farming, or the farming of any other                  
  wildlife species.  The long-term implications of allowing                    
  moose farming have not been considered.  She stressed SB 46                  
  is shortsighted, speculative, largely experimental, and made                 
  with the well being and profits of a few people in mind,                     
  rather than Alaska or its wildlife as a whole.                               
                                                                               
  MS. ARNOLD pointed out that just like any industry, wildlife                 
  farmers will have to be monitored, regulated, administered,                  
  registered, inspected and tested; paperwork, procedures, and                 
  staff time must be established or increased, and there are                   
  many questions which SB 46 fails to consider.  She asked                     
  what is the possibility of disease transfer from farmed                      
  moose to other wildlife.  She said nobody knows, but the few                 
  lines of this bill which require the commissioner and                        
  veterinarians to prevent the spread of pests and diseases                    
  give little indication how that will be accomplished, or if                  
  it is even possible.  She felt no matter how well DEC does                   
  their job of controlling disease, the risk of disease is not                 
  zero and SB 46 has no provisions for what will happen when                   
  disease problems occur.  She expressed concern about the                     
  risk to Alaska's wildlife which farming might pose.                          
                                                                               
  MS. ARNOLD asked how animals will be kept separate from wild                 
  stock.  How will bears, wolves, and other predators be kept                  
  from entering moose farms, which they will naturally be                      
  attracted to, and will farmers be allowed to shoot bears                     
  that enter the farms.  She stated SB 46 requires farmers to                  
  build a fence to keep animals in and out, but it goes on to                  
  say that the commissioner must be notified when an animal                    
  escapes and enters, so the bill itself acknowledges that                     
  fences are not foolproof.                                                    
                                                                               
  MS. ARNOLD wondered why Alaska ignores the track record of                   
  moose farming in other locations.  She asked who will absorb                 
  the costs of failures and what are the possibilities for                     
  increased poaching of moose, if the sale of meat will be                     
  made legal.  She inquired what costs are involved in                         
  certifying, inspecting, and establishing a bureaucracy to                    
  deal with all that.  She questioned where the fiscal note                    
  is.  She stated the Alliance cannot support any version of                   
  SB 46 and asked the committee to respect Alaska's wildlife                   
  and reject the bill.                                                         
                                                                               
  MS. ARNOLD expressed dissatisfaction with not having the                     
  latest version of SB 46.  She was also unhappy that meetings                 
  without public participation were held in negotiating the                    
  latest version of SB 46.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 659                                                                   
                                                                               
  BOB LOCHNER, ANCHORAGE, testified via teleconference and                     
  stated he has heard many concerns regarding the wildlife.                    
  He expressed concern with the public safety aspect.  He has                  
  seen many newspaper articles about vehicles hitting moose                    
  and moose being destroyed in residential areas.  He felt it                  
  is important for moose farms to exist to provide the option                  
  of transporting nuisance animals to game farms in order to                   
  take them away from residential areas.  He added that                        
  construction ongoing in residential areas involves clearing                  
  away a lot of timber and willows grow up, attracting moose.                  
  He stressed people are creating the problem, but have no                     
  solutions.  He stated SB 46 is the only viable solution.                     
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-28, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said when there is a nuisance moose in                  
  Anchorage, the authorities try and chase it away, they do                    
  not try to pick it up physically and carry it away.  He                      
  asked what are the chances for survival when tranquilizing                   
  and relocating a moose.                                                      
                                                                               
  MR. REGELIN responded in the majority of cases, the                          
  department tries to move an animal by chasing it away;                       
  rarely does the department attempt to move it by drugging it                 
  and transporting it.  He did not have any numbers on how                     
  many are handled, but estimated the department handles                       
  several hundred complaints each year in Anchorage.                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked how successful is the department                  
  in tranquilizing and moving an animal and having the animal                  
  survive.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. REGELIN replied if the animal is tranquilized and left                   
  where it is, there is high success; if the animal is moved                   
  there are problems.                                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked if there is a need to move the                    
  animal does the department have to kill it.                                  
                                                                               
  MR. REGELIN said the chances are 50/50 or less.                              
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked what the cost is for                              
  tranquilizing and moving a moose.                                            
                                                                               
  MR. REGELIN replied the drugs cost $150 and the time                         
  involved would be one-half day for two people.                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY stated the person farming would                        
  probably be happy to take the moose by tranquilizing and                     
  hauling it.                                                                  
                                                                               
  CAROL JENSEN, ANCHORAGE, testified via teleconference and                    
  stated if ADF&G personnel, who are skilled in tranquilizing                  
  animals, do not feel comfortable about tranquilizing and                     
  moving animals, she did not believe laymen should be allowed                 
  to do so.  She expressed opposition to SB 46 and said the                    
  bill does not give any consideration to long-term adverse                    
  effects.  She pointed out the state is totally incapable of                  
  monitoring, regulating, and ensuring the welfare and humane                  
  treatment of animals in captivity as illustrated by the                      
  Alaska Zoo, fur farms, dairy farming projects, etc.  There                   
  is not one example confirming that the state has the time,                   
  money or resources to get involved in what it will take to                   
  assure animal welfare.  She stated the cost is too high and                  
  with the state's budget cutbacks, it cannot be done.                         
                                                                               
  MS. JENSEN stated if SB 46 passes, in addition to having an                  
  annual license fee, there should be an inspection of the                     
  facility before the license or permit is automatically                       
  renewed.  She pointed out there is only one veterinarian and                 
  he has never taken any action before until a critical stage                  
  was reached.  She noted SB 46 encourages massive breeding                    
  which could quickly and easily get out of hand, resulting in                 
  the animal population becoming too large for the facility                    
  and becoming too much of a financial burden on the owner.                    
  This would further result in inadequate care, excessive                      
  slaughter, elimination of disease control, and possible                      
  total abandonment of the animals which has happened before.                  
                                                                               
  MS. JENSEN felt the experimenting aspect of the bill could                   
  result in medical or drug experimentation which could be bad                 
  for the animals welfare.  She expressed concern with                         
  sections in the bill which are contradictory.  She stated SB
  46 does not allow for any public knowledge or comments.  She                 
  agreed with comments made by Ms. Arnold.  She again                          
  expressed opposition to SB 46.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 070                                                                   
                                                                               
  STANLEY NED, REPRESENTATIVE, TANANA CHIEFS CONFERENCE (TCC),                 
  testified via teleconference and stated TCC's first priority                 
  is to protect the natural resources the members depend on.                   
  TCC cannot support any version of SB 46.  He said their                      
  opposition is based on their religious beliefs regarding the                 
  handling of wild game.  Native law demands that wild game be                 
  treated with respect and must be kept wild and untouched by                  
  human hands.  He stated other problems with SB 46 include                    
  the threat of disease.  Infection can be transmitted from                    
  domestic stock through water, feces, and other sources.  He                  
  gave various examples of disease transmittals which have                     
  occurred.  He stated SB 46 will be costly to the state,                      
  including many hidden costs.  He said TCC is adamantly                       
  opposed to SB 46.                                                            
                                                                               
  JEREMY WELTON, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and                   
  asked committee members to pass SB 46.                                       
                                                                               
  OPAL WELTON, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and                     
  stated ADF&G wishes to hold SB 46 by providing                               
  misinformation as they have done for the past six years.                     
  She said many testimonies have stated that ADF&G is "far                     
  less than honest"; "they won't tell the whole truth"; "their                 
  opinion is tainted"; etc.  She stated there are two opinions                 
  from the Attorney General stating that it is already legal                   
  to raise and own game animals under existing permits.  Yet                   
  ADF&G says it is illegal and implies that it is immoral for                  
  Alaskans to help and care for orphaned, starving, injured,                   
  and misplaced animals.  She pointed out that the Interior                    
  has been asking for the chance to care for moose for over 40                 
  years.  She urged passage of SB 46.                                          
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced SB 46 will be put into a                         
  subcommittee to resolve the problems involved.  He appointed                 
  Representatives Carney, Davies, and Mulder to the                            
  subcommittee with Representative Carney to serve as Chair.                   
                                                                               
  Number 150                                                                   
                                                                               
  DOUG WELTON, FAIRBANKS, distributed several photos of moose                  
  in various captive situations.  He said the state has done                   
  research and has information supporting small scale farming                  
  of moose.  He pointed out that moose have been milked                        
  untethered and can be called in by a whistle and he did not                  
  see any harm in his family having two or three moose on                      
  their 40 acres to provide a fresh supply of meat and milk.                   
  He thought the public safety issue is a problem in that                      
  moose are being killed on highways and the railroad by the                   
  hundreds which he felt is a lousy management technique.  He                  
  stated the animals can be removed, put on farms and can be                   
  the breeding stock for a future industry for rural Alaskans.                 
  He stated ADF&G is doing nothing.  It has been recommended                   
  that people be allowed to remove animals regardless of age,                  
  putting them to better use.                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. WELTON said deer have been raised throughout the U.S.                    
  and are being sold.  He noted he can go to almost any state                  
  and buy Sitka black-tailed deer but he cannot buy one in                     
  Alaska where they come from.  He stated moose are being                      
  bred, sold, and being held in captive situations.  He                        
  pointed out that ADF&G has recognized moose as a popular                     
  exhibit animal and has gone to great lengths to make them                    
  such.  A pellet ration has been developed in the state that                  
  once a wild animal gets in and eats the ration, they do not                  
  want to leave because it is so good.  Game farming will be a                 
  boon to the local farmer of carrots, cabbage, lettuce,                       
  beets, potatoes, etc.  He urged the committee to pass SB 46                  
                                                                               
  Number 192                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN felt Mr. Welton's techniques on                   
  SB 46 do not work to his benefit.  He stated that Mr. Welton                 
  and his family insulting ADF&G and calling ADF&G personnel,                  
  they disagree with, liars and attacking the committee                        
  process, which is sincere in resolving issues, is not going                  
  to serve his purpose.                                                        
  HB 238  Oil/Hazardous Substance Release Response Fund                        
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS stated it is the committee's fifth hearing                 
  on HB 238.  He said the committee met the previous Wednesday                 
  and discussed draft version Y.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 224                                                                   
                                                                               
  MEREDITH MARSHALL, KETCHIKAN, testified via teleconference                   
  and stated she is not an expert nor does she fully                           
  understand the proposed legislation.  She stated there is                    
  not a benefits clause in the legislation and she felt there                  
  is a need to set up monitoring and spill response standards                  
  along the coast as well as trained personnel in spill                        
  response.  After that has been accomplished, (indiscernible)                 
  a front for major incidents, the fund should                                 
  (indiscernible).                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 238                                                                   
                                                                               
  STAN STEPHENS, PRESIDENT, REGIONAL CITIZENS' ADVISORY                        
  COUNCIL OF PRINCE WILLIAM SOUND (RCAC), testified via                        
  teleconference and stated there are two points RCAC wants to                 
  emphasize.  First, the current system works for responding                   
  to spills and accessing the Oil and Hazardous Substance                      
  Release Response Fund.  The second is to clarify                             
  misinformation regarding the adequacy of a 2 or 2.5 cent                     
  surcharge to fund the DEC spill prevention and response                      
  programs.  He pointed out that in hearings on SB 215 and HB
  238, no reasons were given for limiting access to response                   
  funds for catastrophic spills.  There is no evidence that                    
  DEC has misused response funds in the course of responding                   
  to spills.  He said in the last five years, less than one                    
  percent of response fund expenditures have been used by DEC                  
  to pay for spill response.  All other expenditures of                        
  response funds have been by legislative appropriation for                    
  uses authorized in statute.                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS stated most spills in Alaska are below the                      
  catastrophic threshold of 4.2 million gallons.  The Exxon                    
  Valdez spill is the only spill which exceeded that amount                    
  and approximately 2,000 spills occur each year.  He noted                    
  DEC responds to half of those spills each year.  With the                    
  spill prevention and response programs developed since the                   
  Exxon Valdez spill, hopefully the state will never                           
  experience another catastrophic spill.  He stressed it is                    
  certain that the state will continue to experience the                       
  smaller, chronic spills as long as Alaska is an oil                          
  producing, refining, and transporting state.  Therefore, to                  
  protect the health of residents and the environment, on                      
  which the tourism and fishing industries and subsistence                     
  users depend, the state must continue to diligently prevent                  
  and respond to spills.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 267                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS stated the quest to reduce response fund                        
  expenditures by reducing access to response funds for spill                  
  response has no justifiable basis.  It also is contrary to                   
  one of the primary purposes for which the fund was                           
  established and the surcharge was enacted.  He said despite                  
  some revisionist history by proponents of the concept, the                   
  surcharge was not intended to fund exclusively catastrophic                  
  spill response.  He stressed the current system works well.                  
  If anything, it is likely that most communities would                        
  criticize DEC for not utilizing the response fund more often                 
  in responding to more spills.                                                
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS said he would like to address misinformation                    
  regarding the adequacy of a 2 or 2.5 cent surcharge to fund                  
  spill prevention and preparedness programs.  He noted the                    
  Exxon Corporation has been distributing a chart and                          
  testifying as to the adequacy of a 2 or 2.5 cent surcharge.                  
  In their chart and testimony, they cite a report prepared in                 
  December 1992 for RCAC as justification for the adequacy of                  
  a 2 or 2.5 cent surcharge for spill prevention and                           
  preparedness programs.  He stated the use of the RCAC report                 
  to justify the adequacy of a 2 or 2.5 cent surcharge for                     
  spill prevention programs is, at best, a complete misuse and                 
  manipulation of information presented in the report.                         
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS continued that the RCAC report merely presents                  
  appropriations for fiscal years l991 through 1993 for a                      
  portion of DEC programs.  There was no attempt to analyze                    
  the actual costs of running a fully implemented spill                        
  prevention and response program.  Instead, the report shows                  
  that despite the existence of the response fund, funding for                 
  spill prevention and preparedness programs has remained                      
  relatively constant.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 294                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS stated the Exxon chart shows all response fund                  
  appropriations for all authorized uses of the fund for                       
  fiscal year 1990 through 1994, but compares it only to a                     
  portion of the fiscal notes of those authorized uses.                        
  Absent is the fiscal note for the ferry despite the jump in                  
  the appropriation line reflected by that use.  He stressed                   
  the chart compares apples and oranges and is both incorrect                  
  and misleading.  In the chart presented by the Exxon                         
  Corporation, the RCAC report is cited as the source which                    
  suggests that RCAC produced the chart.  He noted there is no                 
  identification of Exxon as the chart preparer or the source                  
  of most of the information in the chart.  He felt it is                      
  unprofessional to produce false information and cite another                 
  entity as the source.  He thought the Exxon Corporation                      
  should apologize to RCAC and withdraw the misinformation                     
  from the legislative record.                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS said accurate budget information presented in                   
  DEC fiscal notes shows that neither a 2 or 2.5 cent                          
  surcharge provides sufficient funding for prevention                         
  programs at current oil production levels and the problem                    
  becomes more acute as North Slope production declines.  The                  
  splitting of the nickel proposal will force a continued                      
  reduction in DEC programs or the supplementing of general                    
  fund money at the same time state revenues are also                          
  declining.  He reminded committee members that interest on                   
  the response fund balance is merely general funds by another                 
  name.                                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY stated he cannot identify the chart                    
  prepared by Exxon which Mr. Stephens discussed.                              
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS said it is the chart which they have been                       
  showing at other committee hearings.                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CARNEY asked Mr. Stephens to send the House                   
  Resources Committee a copy of the chart.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 329                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER asked Mr. Stephens to comment on local                 
  depots and response corps.                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS stated DEC is getting to the point of looking                   
  at putting them in place.  Communities like Kodiak, Cordova,                 
  and Native villages are all at the point where the response                  
  depots and training are necessary, but he thought it is                      
  (indiscernible) in the coastal areas.                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that part of the 470 fund was                    
  established for other DEC tasks such as underground tank                     
  storage rehabilitation, hatcheries, etc., and to maintain                    
  the system as it is will undermine the spill response                        
  capability.  He asked Mr. Stephens if by testifying in                       
  support of keeping the 470 fund as it is, is he endorsing                    
  spending money for projects not closely related to crude oil                 
  spills.                                                                      
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS replied yes and felt the 470 fund should come                   
  from the tax on the oil industry.                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated another place to tax is the                      
  users of the petroleum products.                                             
                                                                               
  MR. STEPHENS did not agree.  He stressed if one looks at the                 
  overall use of fuel and where the major problems could                       
  occur, overseeing a small leak in a tank is very small                       
  compared to other jobs needed.  He felt the oil industry                     
  needs to be responsible for all fuel spills throughout the                   
  state.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 395                                                                   
                                                                               
  NANCY LETHCOE, PRESIDENT, ALASKA WILDERNESS, RECREATION, AND                 
  TOURISM ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference and stated                 
  the association does not believe any legislation is needed                   
  to change the management or funding of the 470 fund.                         
  However, if the legislature is determined to pass a bill,                    
  the association feels version Y is appropriate.  She was                     
  involved with many teleconferences in connection with the                    
  original 470 fund bill and recalled limiting the fund to                     
  catastrophic spills was discussed.  However, that was just                   
  one perspective on the issue.  The prevailing legislation                    
  left it open to use for a large variety of other things.                     
                                                                               
  MS. LETHCOE stated HB 238, version Y goes a long way toward                  
  continuing to adequately fund the state's spill prevention                   
  and response program while (indiscernible) the oil industry.                 
  She said current U.S. law does not give tourism businesses                   
  any legal standing to file for economic damages sustained as                 
  a result of a spill.  Tourism businesses eat the money which                 
  is lost.  Therefore, strong spill prevention response                        
  programs are the tourism industry's only protection.  She                    
  noted on the concern about spill prevention and clean up of                  
  contaminated sights in rural Alaska, there are not many jobs                 
  for people living in rural Alaska.  A growing number of                      
  rural communities have contacted the association for                         
  information on ecotourism, in hopes of getting ecotourism-                   
  type businesses.  She pointed out that contaminated sites                    
  and the potential for oil spills poses problems for their                    
  development.                                                                 
                                                                               
  MS. LETHCOE stated drinking water contaminated by fuel                       
  spills poses problems for some communities.  In one                          
  particular community, a restaurant is importing water                        
  because of a fuel spill in that community which raises costs                 
  and the difficulty of doing business.  Another community                     
  inherited a contaminated site when it was relocated                          
  following the 1964 earthquake.  The village is located in an                 
  area with tremendous tourism potential, but before it can                    
  develop tourism facilities it must clean up the contaminated                 
  site.  In rural Alaska, there are many aging fuel storage                    
  areas which are often located adjacent to rivers.  She                       
  stressed funding is needed to repair or replace them before                  
  they cause spills which will create economic, social, and                    
  environmental disasters for the local residents, communities                 
  downstream, and tourism businesses along those streams.                      
                                                                               
  MS. LETHCOE said the 470 fund provides funding for the clean                 
  up of contaminated sites and the prevention of oil spills.                   
  It makes good economic sense for the state to continue the                   
  present funding mechanism for that program.  The association                 
  also supports depots and volunteer response corps.  Both                     
  were strongly recommended by the Alaska Oil Spill                            
  Commission.  She stressed the state does (indiscernible) for                 
  volunteers.  As the state budget declines, volunteers are                    
  one way to make up budget shortfalls and help the people                     
  most likely to be adversely affected by spills, if they are                  
  themselves well trained, adequately equipped, and prepared                   
  to respond.  She stressed trained volunteers are important                   
  for local villages where it may take time to get spill                       
  response teams from the state or a spiller into those                        
  communities.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 475                                                                   
                                                                               
  THEA THOMAS, CORDOVA, testified via teleconference and                       
  stated she did not feel any legislative action is needed                     
  concerning the 470 fund.  She felt the present system works                  
  but if the legislature finds it necessary to provide tax                     
  relief for oil companies, version Y is the only fair and                     
  balanced option concerning the issue.  She stated version Y                  
  addresses the oil industry's request for tax relief while                    
  maintaining the state's ability to prevent, prepare for and                  
  respond to oil and hazardous substance spills.  Version Y                    
  also provides an atmosphere of cooperation and compromise                    
  between the oil industry and the people of the state.                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he also sees the responsibility of                 
  the oil companies to provide financial support for the clean                 
  up of oil spills but wondered if Ms. Thomas would agree that                 
  the people who ultimately use the fuel also have a                           
  responsibility and should pay increased taxes to cover                       
  potential spills.                                                            
                                                                               
  MS. THOMAS stated she agrees with Mr. Stephens that most                     
  spills are chronic small spills not connected with users.                    
  The spills are connected with the transport of oil and in                    
  the production and development of oil.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 509                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated there are many people                      
  including himself and the Administration who do support an                   
  increase in the fuel tax, but that does not translate that                   
  another tax has to be replaced.  He felt the state is in a                   
  position where new taxes are going to be needed.                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES agreed, but stated she would like to                    
  see a portion of any fuel tax go into the 470 fund.                          
                                                                               
  KELLY WEAVERLING, CORDOVA, testified via teleconference and                  
  stated during the Exxon Valdez oil spill, he organized and                   
  operated the wildlife rescue fleet.  He is very aware of the                 
  value of the 470 fund and stated the current legislation is                  
  fine, requiring no change.  If a change is necessary, he                     
  prefers version Y.                                                           
                                                                               
  SALLY KABISCH, HOMER, testified via teleconference and                       
  stated she supports the existing structure of the oil and                    
  hazardous substance release response fund.  She said there                   
  has been talk about splitting the nickel and she opposes                     
  splitting the nickel, because it will limit response to                      
  spills which are not catastrophic.  She pointed out that the                 
  less than catastrophic spills account for most of Alaska's                   
  spills and can often be devastating.  Limiting cleanup for                   
  large spills puts Alaska's natural resources at great risk.                  
  Rather than splitting nickels, doubling the dollars going                    
  into the hazardous and oil response fund should be                           
  discussed.  She noted that coastal communities like Homer,                   
  are locally unprepared to respond to a spill.  She urged the                 
  committee to reject revisions to the 470 fund and focus on                   
  the real business, which is not arguing over nickels, but                    
  ensuring that Alaska's preparedness and response to spills                   
  matches the value of the resources vulnerable to those                       
  spills.                                                                      
                                                                               
  MS. KABISCH felt there is a need to continue to require that                 
  spill contingency funds are up to date at least on an annual                 
  basis, and also felt there is a need to free up the Division                 
  of Spill, Prevention, and Response to do the work it is                      
  supposed to be doing, preventing spills and cleaning them                    
  up.  She said there is a need for well trained and fully                     
  funded response and prevention programs in all coastal                       
  communities and other communities as well.  She pointed out                  
  that people have been waiting since 1986 for the volunteer                   
  corps and depots to be put in place.                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER thought it is hypocritical when people                 
  say it is not broken, do not fix it but on the other hand,                   
  they are saying the state is no more prepared today than it                  
  was six years ago.  He stated the committee's mission is to                  
  try and evaluate what progress has been made in the last six                 
  years, if the state is more prepared and try to revisit the                  
  issues to ensure the state is more prepared and putting the                  
  470 funds to the appropriate end.                                            
                                                                               
  MS. KABISCH agreed and stated there is a need to free up DEC                 
  and other state agencies to do the work they are charged to                  
  do.  She felt you do not fix it by cutting taxes on the oil                  
  industry and cutting the funding to the program.                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN stated the whole issue of whether                 
  or not the state is using the 470 fund most appropriately is                 
  also an issue before the DEC subcommittees.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 638                                                                   
                                                                               
  PAUL SEATON, HOMER, testified via teleconference and stated                  
  having been through the Exxon Valdez spill, he knows that                    
  spill prevention is the most important aspect.  He said the                  
  (indiscernible) of catastrophic spills is not the way to do                  
  it and if anything, more money should be spent on spill                      
  prevention, spill training, spill response, and equipment in                 
  local areas.  He expressed opposition to changing the 470                    
  fund with the restrictions being sought for only                             
  catastrophic response.                                                       
                                                                               
  KRISTIN STAHL-JOHNSON, CITY OF KODIAK'S REPRESENTATIVE,                      
  REGIONAL CITIZENS' ADVISORY COUNCIL OF PRINCE WILLIAM SOUND,                 
  testified via teleconference and stated although she                         
  supports version Y, she does not feel there is a need for a                  
  bill since DEC is administratively fixing the real problems                  
  identified with the use of the 470 fund.  She said of all                    
  the versions proposed thus far, version Y is the most                        
  reasonable in addressing public protection issues and the                    
  industry's concerns.  She expressed concern that version Y                   
  gives the oil industry credit for everything presently in                    
  the 470 fund, including the (indiscernible) non-nickel fund.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MS. STAHL-JOHNSON is also concerned that version Y gives                     
  credit for penalties and fines paid toward the fund which is                 
  an anti-incentive for avoiding penalties.  She stressed DEC                  
  needs the latitude to build strong prevention, preparedness,                 
  and response centers around the state and the centers need                   
  to be integrated with what the coastal and small communities                 
  need in (indiscernible) programs.  In regard to comments                     
  made that the communities are not any better prepared to                     
  respond to spills than five years ago, she said DEC has been                 
  hamstrung by what can and cannot be done with the 470 fund                   
  because of the issues being debated.  There is a need to be                  
  able to fully implement the programs and she stressed there                  
  is preparedness and response capabilities in all regions.                    
  She commented in regard to the purposes of the funds and who                 
  should be paying for the response capabilities, the                          
  Hazardous Substance Spill Technology Review Council Report                   
  stated that 80 percent of spills in Alaska, which have been                  
  responded to, involve petroleum products and 20 percent are                  
  hazardous substance spill responses.                                         
                                                                               
  TAPE 94-29, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. STAHL-JOHNSON said she does not believe there is a need                  
  for a bill to change the problems, but rather there is a                     
  need to tighten up, focus the programs, and (indiscernible)                  
  to the protection that the 470 fund supposedly promises                      
  them.                                                                        
                                                                               
  KEVIN HARUN, DIRECTOR, ALASKA CENTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT,                    
  testified via teleconference and stated the 470 fund does                    
  not need changing.  He said the fifth anniversary of the                     
  Exxon Valdez oil spill is March 24 and he felt that what was                 
  learned from that spill is that once a spill happens, there                  
  is not a lot one can do about it.  He stressed one can do a                  
  lot to prevent spills and that is one of the reasons the                     
  spill prevention response fund established the nickel a                      
  barrel tax.  The spill prevention response fund was                          
  established before the spill and the tax came as a result of                 
  the crisis which emerged.  He said often it is much easier                   
  to motivate public policy after a crisis.  He expressed                      
  concern that everyone is forgetting the lessons of the                       
  spill.                                                                       
                                                                               
  MR. HARUN stated his organization opposes Representative                     
  Green's version of HB 238 and commends Chairman William's                    
  attempt to balance the public's desire for spill prevention                  
  and response with the industry's desire for tax relief.  He                  
  felt the legislature's role is to advance the public's                       
  interest.  He said the industry should not be given credit                   
  for fines and penalties and the industry should not be given                 
  credit for all of the money which is currently in the fund,                  
  because 40 percent of the funds came from non-nickel                         
  sources. He pointed out that DEC has fixed most of the                       
  region's problems.  He added that his organization does not                  
  perceive most of the money for spill prevention and response                 
  coming from the nickel a barrel tax and he asked where the                   
  money will come from.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 042                                                                   
                                                                               
  RANDY MCGOVERN, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference and                  
  stated he is not convinced that HB 238 is necessary.  The                    
  current version of SB 215 and all versions of HB 238, except                 
  version Y, are unacceptable.  He said more vigilant                          
  (indiscernible) should be implemented especially for                         
  (indiscernible) spills.  He pointed out that a recent spill                  
  of 2,500 gallons occurred during a spill drill; another                      
  spill released 15,000 gallons and what is scary is the pipe                  
  was only two years old and the weight had not been placed in                 
  the pipe to alleviate a problem already known to exist; and                  
  even more scary is that the alarms were turned off and the                   
  spill was discovered by accident.  He stated also scary is                   
  that the well was producing mostly gas for production for                    
  oil from another well, and had that well been producing oil,                 
  a massive catastrophic spill would have occurred.                            
                                                                               
  MR. MCGOVERN stated it has been said that $112 million has                   
  been collected from the nickels and stressed that is not                     
  correct.  At the inception of the 470 fund, $30 million had                  
  already been acquired before the Exxon Valdez spill through                  
  fines, cost recoveries, general funds from 1986 through                      
  1989.  For every dollar spent for prevention (indiscernible)                 
  $100 for response or remediation.  If the (indiscernible) of                 
  the 470 fund was done four times by legislation and 17 times                 
  by appropriation.  He said one fact sheet illustrated that                   
  DEC has spent 0.9 percent of the available fund but progress                 
  still went forward.  It was accomplished by dedicated,                       
  informed, compassionate people.  Without knowledge and                       
  training, terrestrial spills will result from pesticides and                 
  petroleum products.  Visions in the future gave the state                    
  double hulled tankers.   Visions of the future gave the                      
  state command and control vessels.  Visions beyond the                       
  future gives the state (indiscernible) technology.  He asked                 
  where are the visions for terrestrial spills.                                
                                                                               
  MR. MCGOVERN said the drafter of the Y version at least                      
  recognizes that you do not throw the baby out with the bath                  
  water.  He stressed that present versions of both SB 215 and                 
  HB 238, not version Y, should be killed.  (Indiscernible) of                 
  HB 238 would create a bookkeeping nightmare and added that                   
  four separate accounts would have to be established and                      
  supervised.  (Indiscernible) the 470 fund presents another                   
  problem.  Consumers, the public, and small businesses would                  
  have to pay the bill.  He stated glamorous, glitzy, feel                     
  good television commercials do not give the state the                        
  ability to protect the life and health of its citizens.                      
  Maintaining the 470 fund as is will.  He urged committee                     
  members not to pass HB 238.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 079                                                                   
                                                                               
  HILLARY SCHAEFER, FAIRBANKS, testified via teleconference                    
  and expressed concern with the array of bills moving so                      
  quickly through the legislature.  She is disappointed with                   
  what SB 215 and early versions of HB 238 have to offer.  She                 
  appreciated Chairman Williams looking at the protection                      
  which pollution prevention and response programs offer now                   
  and in the future.  (Indiscernible) hazardous waste, it is                   
  crucial that these programs remain in place for oil spill                    
  response and prevention, as well as for hazardous waste                      
  spill response.  She stressed that Chairman William's                        
  version is the only version which is (indiscernible) for the                 
  state pollution prevention and response programs and to the                  
  oil industry.  She said if passage of a bill is necessary,                   
  she supports the Y version of HB 238.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 090                                                                   
                                                                               
  KARL BECKER, REPRESENTATIVE, PRINCE WILLIAM SOUND                            
  CONSERVATION ALLIANCE, testified via teleconference and                      
  stated he is incredulous that on the fifth anniversary of                    
  the Exxon Valdez oil spill the state is contemplating                        
  weakening the provisions of the 470 fund.  He felt it is                     
  dangerous to do that at this time.  If anything, the state                   
  should be looking at more secure ways to protect the                         
  environment from oil and other hazardous substance spills.                   
  He stated there is no reason to tamper with the present 470                  
  fund but if the legislature is determined to do something,                   
  he strongly endorses Chairman William's version Y.                           
                                                                               
  Number 126                                                                   
                                                                               
  DAN DEL MISSIER, HOMER, testified via teleconference and                     
  stated he is dismayed that consideration is being made to                    
  change the 470 fund.  He urged committee members to leave                    
  the 470 fund as is.                                                          
                                                                               
  ALAN PARKS, HOMER, testified via teleconference and said he                  
  would like to see the 470 fund left as is.  He stressed                      
  there is a need to concentrate on prevention and                             
  preparedness.  He felt the nickel surcharge is needed.  He                   
  described a drill which took place in Homer and pointed out                  
  that proper equipment and proper vessels are not in place to                 
  handle any spills.                                                           
                                                                               
  ANNOUNCEMENTS                                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced that HB 404 will not be heard on                 
  Friday because the sponsor has asked it to be held.  He                      
  stated the committee will hear HB 447 on Friday, March 11 at                 
  8:15 a.m.                                                                    
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  There being no further business to come before the House                     
  Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting                 
  at 10:03 a.m.                                                                

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