Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/26/1993 08:00 AM RES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
               HOUSE RESOURCES STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                         March 26, 1993                                        
                            8:00 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Bill Williams, Chairman                                       
  Representative Bill Hudson, Vice Chairman                                    
  Representative Con Bunde                                                     
  Representative Pat Carney                                                    
  Representative John Davies                                                   
  Representative Jeannette James                                               
  Representative Eldon Mulder                                                  
  Representative David Finkelstein                                             
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Joe Green                                                     
                                                                               
  OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                    
                                                                               
  Representative Pete Kott                                                     
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  Briefing by Alaska Water Resources Board                                     
                                                                               
  HB 213:   "An Act prohibiting the commissioner of natural                    
            resources from classifying state land, water, or                   
            land and water so that mining, mineral entry and                   
            location, mineral prospecting, and mineral leasing                 
            are precluded or are designated an incompatible                    
            use without an act of the legislature if the area                  
            involved contains more than 640 acres except in                    
            certain situations; and providing for an effective                 
            date."                                                             
                                                                               
            ADOPTED CS (RES) AS AMENDED, MOVED FROM COMMITTEE                  
            WITH A DO PASS RECOMMENDATION                                      
                                                                               
  HB 140:   "An Act relating to the king salmon tag fee."                      
                                                                               
            ADOPTED CS (FSH) AND MOVED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A                   
            DO PASS RECOMMENDATION                                             
                                                                               
  HCR 9:    Relating to management of the community                            
            development fisheries quota program and fisheries                  
            development by the state.                                          
                                                                               
            ADOPTED CS (FSH) AND MOVED FROM COMMITTEE WITH A                   
            DO PASS RECOMMENDATION                                             
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  Mike Niemeyer, Chairman                                                      
  Alaska Water Resources Board                                                 
  601 W. Fifth Ave., Suite 200                                                 
  Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                     
  Phone:  Not available                                                        
  Position Statement: Presented briefing on Water Resources                    
                      Board                                                    
                                                                               
  Wayne Westberg, Member                                                       
  Alaska Water Resources Board                                                 
  P.O. Box 110378                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska  99511                                                     
  Phone:  Not available                                                        
  Position Statement: Responded to questions on water export                   
                      issues                                                   
                                                                               
  Jack Phelps                                                                  
  Legislative Aide                                                             
  Representative Pete Kott                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 409                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Phone:  465-3777                                                             
  Position Statement: Commented on changes in the draft                        
                      CSHB 213                                                 
                                                                               
  Raga Elim                                                                    
  Special Assistant to the Commissioner                                        
  Department of Natural Resources (DNR)                                        
  400 Willoughby Ave.                                                          
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1724                                                   
  Phone:  465-2400                                                             
  Position Statement: Explained the DNR amendments to HB 213                   
                                                                               
  Wendy Mulder                                                                 
  Legislative Liaison                                                          
  Department of Commerce and Economic Development (DCED)                       
  P.O. Box 110800                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska  99811-0800                                                   
  Phone:  465-2500                                                             
  Position Statement: Described the DCED's involvement in                      
                      discussions of amendments to HB 213                      
                                                                               
  Jerry Luckhaupt, Attorney                                                    
  Legislative Affairs Agency                                                   
  Division of Legal Services                                                   
  130 Seward St., Suite 313                                                    
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-2197                                                   
  Phone:  465-2450                                                             
  Position Statement: Explained proposed amendment to CSHB 213                 
                                                                               
  Representative Pete Kott                                                     
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 409                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Phone:  465-3777                                                             
  Position Statement: Expressed support of committee                           
                      substitute as sponsor of HB 213                          
                                                                               
  Representative Bill Hudson                                                   
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 108                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Phone:  465-3744                                                             
  Position Statement: Prime Sponsor of HB 140                                  
                                                                               
  Bob Herron                                                                   
  Legislative Aide                                                             
  Representative Lyman Hoffman                                                 
  State Capitol, Room 503                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                   
  Phone:  465-4453                                                             
  Position Statement: Explained HCR 9                                          
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 213                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  LIMIT ADMINISTRATIVE LAND CLOSURES                             
  BILL VERSION: SCS CSHB 213(RES)(EFD FLD)                                     
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOTT,Phillips,Green,Brice,                   
  Mulder,Toohey                                                                
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act prohibiting the commissioner of natural                       
  resources from permanently classifying state land, water, or                 
  land and water so that mining, mineral entry and location,                   
  mineral prospecting, and mineral leasing are precluded or                    
  are designated an incompatible use without an act of the                     
  legislature if the area involved contains more than 640                      
  contiguous acres except in certain situations."                              
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  03/10/93       590    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/10/93       591    (H)   RESOURCES, FINANCE                               
  03/10/93       596    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): BRICE, MULDER,                     
                              TOOHEY                                           
  03/22/93              (H)   RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/22/93              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  03/26/93              (H)   RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/26/93       788    (H)   RES RPT  CS(RES)NEW TITLE 4DP                    
                              2DNP 2NR                                         
  03/26/93       789    (H)   DP: HUDSON, JAMES, WILLIAMS,                     
                              MULDER                                           
  03/26/93       789    (H)   DNP: FINKELSTEIN, DAVIES                         
  03/26/93       789    (H)   NR: CARNEY, BUNDE                                
  03/26/93       789    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE  (DNR)                         
                              3/26/93                                          
  03/26/93       806    (H)   FIN REFERRAL WAIVED  Y22 N11 E2                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 140                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  FEES FOR NONRESIDENT KING SALMON TAG                           
  BILL VERSION: CSHB 140(FSH)                                                  
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) HUDSON,Phillips,Mulder                       
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to the anadromous king salmon tag;                   
  and providing for a effective date."                                         
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/08/93       254    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/08/93       254    (H)   FISHERIES, RESOURCES, FINANCE                    
  02/22/93              (H)   FSH AT 08:30 AM CAPITOL 17                       
  02/22/93              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                      
  03/03/93              (H)   FSH AT 08:30 AM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/03/93              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                      
  03/05/93              (H)   FSH AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/12/93       615    (H)   FSH RPT  CS(FSH)  NEW TITLE                      
                              3DP                                              
  03/12/93       615    (H)   DP: MOSES, PHILLIPS, OLBERG                      
  03/12/93       615    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE  (F&G)  3/12/93                     
  03/26/93       784    (H)   RES RPT  CS(FSH) NEW TITLE 7DP                   
                              1DNP                                             
  03/26/93       784    (H)   DP: HUDSON, JAMES, FINKELSTEIN,                  
                              DAVIES                                           
  03/26/93       784    (H)   DP: MULDER, BUNDE, WILLIAMS                      
  03/26/93       785    (H)   DNP: CARNEY                                      
  03/26/93       785    (H)   -PREVIOUS FN (F&G)  3/12/93                      
  03/26/93       808    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): MULDER                             
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HCR 9                                                                 
  SHORT TITLE:  COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FISHING QUOTAS                           
  BILL VERSION: CSHCR 9(FSH) AM                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) HOFFMAN,Ulmer,Mulder                         
  TITLE: Relating to state management of the Western Alaska                    
  Community Development Quota Program and state fisheries                      
  development policy.                                                          
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/22/93       409    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/22/93       409    (H)   FISHERIES, RESOURCES, FINANCE                    
  03/12/93              (H)   FSH AT 08:30 AM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/12/93              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                      
  03/12/93              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                      
  03/17/93       682    (H)   FSH RPT  CS(FSH) NEW TITLE 2DP                   
                              1NR                                              
  03/17/93       682    (H)   DP: MOSES, OLBERG                                
  03/17/93       682    (H)   NR: PHILLIPS                                     
  03/17/93       682    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE  (F&G)                         
                              3/17/93                                          
  03/26/93       776    (H)   RES RPT  CS(FSH) NEW TITLE 6DP                   
                              2NR                                              
  03/26/93       777    (H)   DP: HUDSON, JAMES, FINKELSTEIN,                  
                              DAVIES                                           
  03/26/93       777    (H)   DP: MULDER, WILLIAMS                             
  03/26/93       777    (H)   NR: BUNDE, CARNEY                                
  03/26/93       777    (H)   -PREVIOUS ZERO FN (F&G)                          
                              3/17/93                                          
  03/26/93       807    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): MULDER                             
  03/17/93              (H)   MINUTE(FSH)                                      
  03/26/93              (H)   RES AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 124                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-37, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  The House Resources Committee was called to order by                         
  Chairman Bill Williams at 8:10 a.m.  Members present at the                  
  call to order were Representatives Williams, Hudson, Bunde,                  
  Green, James, and Mulder.  Members absent at the call were                   
  Representatives Carney, Davies, and Finkelstein.                             
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN BILL WILLIAMS told the committee that the first                     
  item on the meeting's agenda was a briefing by the Alaska                    
  Water Resources Board, followed by consideration of HB 213,                  
  HB 140, and HCR 9.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 092                                                                   
                                                                               
  MIKE NIEMEYER, CHAIRMAN OF THE ALASKA WATER RESOURCES BOARD,                 
  told the committee that in addition to his service on the                    
  board, he was a land manager for Calista Corporation.  He                    
  described the composition of the Water Resources Board as                    
  having seven members, all appointed by the governor.  He                     
  noted that three of the members were present at the                          
  Resources Committee meeting, including himself.  The others                  
  were Wayne Westberg and Dave Norton.                                         
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER explained that the mission of the Water                         
  Resources Board was to ensure that there was wise water                      
  management in the state.  He noted that for the past year                    
  the board had not been funded and members had served at                      
  their own expense.  He referred to legislation pertinent to                  
  the Water Resources Board, including HB 111 and SB 80.                       
  House Bill 111, he said, proposes to repeal the board.  This                 
  proposal, he believed, makes little sense because the board                  
  operates at little expense to the state.                                     
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER explained that SB 80 combines the Water                         
  Resources Board with the Soil and Water Conservation Board.                  
  In effect, he said, the bill would turn the functions of the                 
  Water Resources Board over to the Soil and Water                             
  Conservation Board.  He cautioned that water management                      
  issues would be compromised by the creation of a joint                       
  board.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 115                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER explained the history of the board, which had                   
  operated for over 20 years.  He said the board serves as an                  
  advocate for the state's position on water management, and                   
  is involved in controversial water issues.  Most recently,                   
  he said the board was involved in the development of the                     
  Kenai Groundwater Task Force, and has been an advocate for                   
  village safe water programs.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 160                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER related some of the other activities of the                     
  Water Resources Board, which include working closely                         
  together with user groups to work out problems and creating                  
  programs that will generate revenues.  He noted the work of                  
  the Water Division in the Department of Natural Resources                    
  (DNR) in developing a water export program.  Although the                    
  idea has not been widely accepted, he said the DNR is                        
  looking seriously at water export as a source of revenue                     
  generation for the state.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 240                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER described some of the other principal functions                 
  and programs performed by the Water Resources Board or for                   
  which the board serves in an advisory capacity.  Among them                  
  were hydrologic surveys, maintenance of stream gauging                       
  records and water studies required for construction of                       
  bridges or roads.  He said 11 hydrologists in the DNR                        
  perform those functions and that continuity in their data-                   
  gathering is very important, but is at risk in the face of                   
  budget cuts.  The Water Resource Board, he said, is an                       
  active proponent of keeping the hydrologists in the                          
  department to maintain those programs.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 310                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES asked Mr. Niemeyer when the                   
  Water Resources Board was authorized.                                        
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER replied that the board was authorized in                        
  statute by  AS 46, at about the time of the Water Use Act in                 
  the 1960's.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 315                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked how members are selected and                      
  appointed.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 320                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER replied that persons interested in serving on                   
  the board contact the governor's office, and those who are                   
  appointed serve four-year terms.  He said the board has                      
  benefitted from continuity in its membership over the years,                 
  except for the higher than usual turnover in the past five                   
  years.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 339                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE referred to the Water Resources                     
  Board's fact sheet, dated September, 1992, produced by the                   
  DNR's Division of Water.  He asked Mr. Niemeyer to describe                  
  the board's legislative priorities.                                          
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER explained that the board's highest priority was                 
  to obtain funding for the Water Division.  He said the board                 
  had worked for 20 years to have that division created, and                   
  that with budget cuts, the programs provided by that                         
  division are in jeopardy of being lost.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 366                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented on the export of Alaska's                     
  water resources, and noted that the environmental impact of                  
  such an action would be very complex.  He noted that the                     
  cost of such big projects may not be a wise investment in                    
  light of budget cuts that might eliminate state hydrologists                 
  who provide important field services to the citizens of                      
  Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 390                                                                   
                                                                               
  WAYNE WESTBERG, WATER RESOURCES BOARD MEMBER, explained that                 
  the investigation of water export possibilities has not been                 
  a major expense to the state, in that only one person is                     
  employed on that project in the Division of Water.  He said                  
  the water export project does not impact the delivery of                     
  other water-related services.  The board initiated DNR's                     
  water rights program, he said.  Although it had been in                      
  statutes, Mr. Westberg told the committee that it had not                    
  been implemented until the board pushed for action.  If the                  
  DNR loses its hydrologists, he said the water rights program                 
  would be drastically affected.                                               
                                                                               
  MR. WESTBERG predicted that a backlog of water rights                        
  applications would result if the hydrologists' budget were                   
  cut too far.                                                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE commented that the hydrologists in the                  
  field should be the highest priority.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 422                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. NIEMEYER distributed a position paper prepared by the                    
  Division of Water on water exports, dated March 17, 1993.                    
  He also distributed an attachment, also prepared by the                      
  Division of Water, relating to the FY 94 budget.                             
                                                                               
  Number 438                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted for the record that Representatives                  
  Davies, Finkelstein and Bunde had joined the meeting since                   
  the call to order.  He referred to the next item on the                      
  agenda, HB 213, which he explained, had been previously                      
  heard by the Resources Committee on March 22, 1993.  He                      
  noted that the amendments suggested at that meeting had led                  
  to a blank committee substitute draft, as well as two                        
  additional amendments, A.8 and A.9.                                          
                                                                               
  HB 213:  LIMIT ADMINISTRATIVE LAND CLOSURES                                  
                                                                               
  Number 464                                                                   
                                                                               
  JACK PHELPS, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT,                   
  PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 213, told the committee he had worked                    
  with the DNR on the amendments, and that the draft committee                 
  substitute reflected those changes.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 474                                                                   
                                                                               
  RAGA ELIM, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE COMMISSIONER OF THE DNR,                 
  related the discussions held between the prime sponsor and                   
  the DNR since the last meeting on the bill.  As HB 213 was                   
  originally introduced, he explained, the DNR had wanted some                 
  amendments and hastily drafted language to address the                       
  administration's concerns.  Those amendments, he said,                       
  included reference to "contiguous" acres of land, and                        
  provided a mechanism for management flexibility for the DNR                  
  to issue an order for closure effective immediately, subject                 
  to approval from the legislature.  Without the legislature's                 
  approval, he explained, the order would lapse.                               
                                                                               
  MR. ELIM explained that the amendments would not result in                   
  any fiscal impact, as reflected in the zero fiscal note from                 
  the DNR.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 507                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER MOVED to adopt the draft                         
  committee substitute as CSHB 213 (RES).                                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked whether he was referring to the                   
  3/25/93 committee substitute, and whether that CS                            
  incorporated amendments A.1 through A.7.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 513                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER explained that only amendments A.8 and                 
  A.9 were incorporated in the CS.                                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES then asked what would happen with                       
  amendments one through seven.                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS told Representative James that                             
  Representative Kott's office and the administration had                      
  worked together on the CS and settled on the two amendments                  
  to be incorporated into the CS.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 527                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVID FINKELSTEIN asked whether anyone from                   
  the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) were present                  
  at the meeting to respond to the issues raised previously                    
  regarding anadromous streams, wildlife refuges and critical                  
  habitats.                                                                    
                                                                               
  MR. ELIM replied that as HB 213 was originally drafted, all                  
  mineral closing orders would have to be approved by the                      
  legislature.  He explained that the ADF&G wanted to define                   
  certain types of orders for the administration to retain                     
  full authority over.  That approach, he said, ran counter to                 
  the intent of the bill.  Discussions with the administration                 
  regarding closures in such areas, led to the decision that                   
  closures even in those areas would be subject to legislative                 
  approval.  As the CS is written, he said the DNR will be                     
  able to issue an order, effective immediately, subject to                    
  approval by the legislature.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 547                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN reiterated his concern that                       
  someone from the ADF&G should be present, and stated that                    
  the concerns expressed by the ADF&G at the previous meeting                  
  are still there.  There still existed a potential for a                      
  critical area to be jeopardized if an order lapses due to                    
  the legislature's failure to approve it, he said, and this                   
  potential raises problems of balance of power.                               
                                                                               
  MR. ELIM recognized the vagaries of the committee process in                 
  the legislature, and said the department was comfortable                     
  with the fact that if they made a closure decision with                      
  compelling reasons, the legislature would acknowledge those                  
  reasons also.                                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN pointed out there were plenty of                  
  examples of instances where the majority of the legislature                  
  might be in agreement, but a few individuals could hold up                   
  the process.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 565                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE said he was comfortable with the DNR                    
  issuing a closure and then coming to the legislature for                     
  approval, but he speculated that if an order was issued on                   
  June 1, then there would be no legislative approval until                    
  the following January and any work that was begun could not                  
  be undone.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ELIM clarified that the converse situation would be the                  
  case; that the order issued by the DNR would stop any use or                 
  development of land until the legislature approved or                        
  disapproved the order.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 577                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER also explained that the DNR's                          
  commissioner would have a limited window of opportunity to                   
  address critical issues, but that legislative approval would                 
  still be necessary.  He felt the CS adequately made those                    
  provisions.  He also felt it was most appropriate for the                    
  legislature to be accountable to the public and have review                  
  of the closure decisions.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 590                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN did not believe there had been an                 
  administration prior to the current one that would have                      
  given up the power to protect public lands, especially                       
  critical habitats and wildlife refuges that were                             
  intentionally left open in enabling legislation because the                  
  administration had the power to close the lands as necessary                 
  when and if the need arose.  He said that at the time the                    
  state was deciding whether to set up critical habitats and                   
  wildlife refuges and not close them to mineral entry, the                    
  argument was that it was not necessary to close them because                 
  the administration has the power to close them.  Now, he                     
  said, the legislature is diminishing the power to close them                 
  and diminishing the protection of those critical habitats.                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented regarding critical habitats.                  
  She suggested that the whole state could be considered                       
  critical habitat.  The only way for the people of the state                  
  to have input into closures, she said, is if they go through                 
  the legislature.  She felt the CS for HB 213 addressed that                  
  need by letting the administration make emergency closures.                  
  If the information showed that an area was indeed critical                   
  habitat, she felt confident that the legislature would                       
  recognize the need for closure.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 615                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ELIM attempted to allay Representative Finkelstein's                     
  concerns regarding critical habitats.  In a hypothetical                     
  situation where a closure order is issued by the DNR and                     
  went to the legislature for approval but did not pass, and                   
  the area then became open for mining, he said there were                     
  still authorities and permitting processes to assure                         
  mitigation and protection of the habitat.  Title 16 and                      
  Title 38 provided safeguards, he added.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 630                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES shared the concern that the ADF&G                 
  should have had a representative at this meeting of the                      
  Resources Committee.  He also expressed concern that the                     
  direction for HB 213 discussed at its previous hearing was                   
  very different from the approach in the CS.  Specifically,                   
  using a process similar to the executive order process had                   
  been discussed at the last meeting on the bill.  He felt the                 
  CS approach shifted the balance too far from what are                        
  properly administrative functions to what are appropriately                  
  legislative policy duties.                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES suggested that such a shift seems to                   
  indicate that the executive and administrative functions are                 
  unnecessary and the legislature should just expand its staff                 
  and run the government.  He stressed that it is important to                 
  maintain separation of powers and that the proposed CS for                   
  HB 213 goes too far in the direction of the legislature                      
  performing the day to day functions of managing the                          
  government.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 663                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS noted that Representative Pete Kott, prime                 
  sponsor of HB 213, had joined the meeting.  As far as the                    
  people of the state having a say in administrative                           
  decisions, the chairman said he preferred that approach.                     
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN BILL HUDSON commented that the committee                       
  members should recognize that the bill does not preclude the                 
  administration from closing any area, but it puts the checks                 
  and balances in the hands of the legislature.  He explained                  
  that the result is the administration has to come back to                    
  the legislature to assure that a policy decision is the                      
  correct one.  He also noted the exemption in HB 213 for land                 
  disposals and transportation corridors.  He felt satisfied                   
  that this is good legislation.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 679                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS addressed the motion on the floor to adopt                 
  the committee substitute, and asked if there were any                        
  objections.  Hearing none, CSHB 213 (RES) was ADOPTED.                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE shared the concerns over the ADF&G's                    
  amendments, and noted that if they still had concerns, they                  
  should be present at the meeting to defend their concerns.                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN hoped that assessment was                         
  correct, and noted that there are at times internal debates                  
  within the administration regarding legislation, and only                    
  one department might be allowed to present its point of                      
  view.                                                                        
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-37, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ELIM remarked that the ADF&G had been aware of the                       
  discussions regarding HB 213, and he felt all the parties                    
  involved were comfortable with the proposal to make certain                  
  mineral closure orders subject to legislative approval.                      
                                                                               
  WENDY MULDER, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF                      
  COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (DCED), commented that the                 
  DCED was also involved in the discussions, and she agreed                    
  with Mr. Elim's assessment.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 030                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES MOVED TO AMEND line 15 on page 2 of                    
  the Resources CS, striking the sentence on that line and                     
  replacing it with one that reads: "unless the legislature                    
  disapproves by resolution, an interim classification                         
  contained in an order transmitted under this subsection, by                  
  the 60th day of the legislative session, the order becomes                   
  permanent."                                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER OBJECTED to the motion.                                
                                                                               
  Number 064                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked the legislative legal counsel, Jerry                 
  Luckhaupt, to address the language in Representative Davies'                 
  proposed amendment.                                                          
                                                                               
  JERRY LUCKHAUPT, ATTORNEY, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AGENCY,                       
  DIVISION OF LEGAL SERVICES, said there is a problem with                     
  language requiring the disapproval of an action by                           
  legislative resolution or any legislative action by                          
  resolution.  He explained that it would be unconstitutional,                 
  and that only a bill can be used.  He said a resolution                      
  would present the same problem mentioned in the previous                     
  meeting regarding executive orders.  Regulations cannot be                   
  repealed by resolution, only by an act of the legislature,                   
  which would mean by a bill.  He noted that there had been a                  
  move to amend the constitution to allow the repeal of                        
  regulations by resolution.                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked Mr. Luckhaupt whether the                        
  language "disapproved by an act of the legislature" would be                 
  appropriate in his amendment.                                                
                                                                               
  MR. LUCKHAUPT replied in the affirmative.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 100                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES offered to make that change to his                     
  amendment.  The amendment now would pattern the response to                  
  the situation as nearly as possible to the executive order                   
  process while staying within the requirements of the                         
  constitution.  He felt the appropriate balance would be                      
  maintained between the administrative and legislative                        
  branches.  The legislature would still have the ability and                  
  the obligation to review closing orders issued by the                        
  administration, with the opportunity to disapprove.                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES explained that the disapproval                         
  requirement would represent a more balanced view of the will                 
  of the people than the situation in the current version of                   
  HB 213, which would allow one person to stand in the way of                  
  the decision being upheld.                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any further discussion                 
  on the amendment.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 150                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented that the policy question is                   
  whether the governor should be able to classify lands to                     
  prevent mineral development, and present those interim                       
  classifications to close mining to the legislature within                    
  ten days, then require legislative approval.  In the current                 
  version of HB 213 before the committee, he said the interim                  
  classification would expire or lapse at the end of the 90th                  
  legislative day if not approved.  He paraphrased                             
  Representative Davies' proposal, stating that the DNR may do                 
  an interim classification to preclude mining and that                        
  decision would stand unless the legislature takes specific                   
  action disapproving it.  He preferred the bill the way it                    
  was.                                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 168                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT commented that he was satisfied                     
  with the bill as written, and that he had examined the                       
  disapproval approach and had seen it as an opportunity for                   
  filibusters.                                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked whether there were objections to                     
  Representative Davies' amendment, as amended.  There were                    
  objections and a roll call vote was requested by                             
  Representative Finkelstein.  Voting YEA were Representatives                 
  Carney, Davies and Finkelstein.  Voting NAY were                             
  Representatives Hudson, Bunde, James, Mulder and Williams.                   
  The MOTION was DEFEATED.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 215                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN MOVED amendment A.7, addressing                   
  the issue of retroactivity.  He asked Mr. Luckhaupt to                       
  clarify the amendment.                                                       
                                                                               
  MR. LUCKHAUPT explained that amendment A.7 clarifies for the                 
  courts that the bill's intent was that it not be applied                     
  retroactively.  He suggested that in addition to the                         
  reference to 38.05.300 (a)(2), he would add 38.05.300 (c),                   
  added by sections 1 and 2 of CS HB 213 (RES).  This would                    
  clarify that the entire bill is not retroactive.                             
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked whether there were objections to the                 
  motion on the amendment.  There were none.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 253                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. ELIM brought an additional item to the committee's                       
  attention, amendment A.1.  He said this amendment was also                   
  important in relation to discussions in the previous hearing                 
  regarding land exchanges.  He understood that amendment was                  
  amenable to the sponsor.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 272                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER MOVED amendment A.1.                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN noted that because of previous                    
  amendments, that amendment would be conceptual and would                     
  need to be drafted to reflect the language changes in the                    
  previous amendments.                                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections to                      
  adopting amendment A.1.  Hearing none, the AMENDMENT was                     
  ADOPTED.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 281                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked what the purpose was of                          
  amendment A.2.                                                               
                                                                               
  MR. ELIM noted that its purpose had been accomplished in                     
  amendment A.9, which was incorporated in the Resources CS.                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN OFFERED amendment A.3, making                     
  exceptions for critical habitat, wildlife refuges, and                       
  streambeds.                                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON OBJECTED.                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS called for a roll call vote on moving                      
  amendment A.3.  Voting YEA were Representatives Carney,                      
  Davies and Finkelstein.  Voting NAY were Representatives                     
  Hudson, Bunde, James, Mulder, and Williams.  The MOTION was                  
  DEFEATED.                                                                    
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON MOVED to pass the committee substitute                  
  as adopted and amended from committee and the zero fiscal                    
  note, with individual recommendations.  He asked unanimous                   
  consent.                                                                     
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections to the                  
  motion.  Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED.                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the next bill before the                         
  committee would be HB 140.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 300                                                                   
                                                                               
  HB 140:  FEES FOR NONRESIDENT KING SALMON TAG                                
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 140, referred the                  
  members of the committee to the sponsor statement and                        
  sectional analysis in their packets.  (A copy of the sponsor                 
  statement and sectional analysis may be found in the House                   
  Resources Committee Room, Capitol Room 124, and after the                    
  adjournment of the second session of the 18th Alaska State                   
  Legislature, in the Legislative Reference Library.)  Also                    
  contained in the packets were a series of amendments offered                 
  by the ADF&G.  Those amendments, he explained, had been                      
  incorporated into the bill in the Fisheries' CS.                             
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIR HUDSON said that in the fiscal note the increased                 
  cost to effect the bill is $10.9 thousand, while the                         
  revenues generated would be $81.6 thousand.  The revenues                    
  would come from fees to non-residents, he said, and would go                 
  toward enhancing sport fishing.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 338                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON also referred to a predicted sales                      
  sheet in the members' packets.  (A copy of the predicted                     
  sales sheet may be found in the House Resources Committee                    
  Room, Capitol Room 124, and after the adjournment of the                     
  second session of the 18th Alaska State Legislature, in the                  
  Legislative Reference Library.)  That sheet, he explained,                   
  predicted how many non-residents in 1994 would have fishing                  
  licenses for the periods of one year, 6.8 thousand; 14-days,                 
  22.9 thousand; three-days; and one-day.  It also showed                      
  estimates for military fishing licenses and sport hunting                    
  licenses and tags.                                                           
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented on suggestions made by the                    
  guided charter fishing industry, in response to a $20 non-                   
  resident chinook tag fee initiated last year.  That fee did                  
  not take into account the length of time the non-resident                    
  would spend fishing, so that someone off a cruise ship                       
  spending an afternoon fishing a charter would be charged the                 
  same fee as someone spending two weeks fishing every day.                    
  This was on top of the non-resident fishing license and the                  
  amount the non-resident might spend on a chartered fishing                   
  trip.  It was seen as unreasonable and hence the graduated                   
  fee schedule proposed in HB 140, he explained.                               
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON told the committee that the ADF&G had                   
  worked closely on the legislation, and he stressed that HB
  140 carries a positive fiscal impact.  He suggested it would                 
  encourage more people to fish in Alaska and generate                         
  increased tourism revenues.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 408                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES had no problem with the concept in HB
  140.  He asked why the word "anadromous" had been added to                   
  the language regarding king salmon.                                          
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON explained that in many places where                     
  there are planted king salmon, such as Twin Lakes in Juneau,                 
  he did not want to force people to pay the fee as they would                 
  for native salmon stocks.                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES asked whether the $70,000 in the                       
  fiscal note was predicated on the $5 or $10 fee.  He also                    
  asked why in the Fisheries' CS, the bottom-end fee had been                  
  changed from $5 to $10.                                                      
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON explained the fiscal note was based on                  
  a $10 fee.  He said that projections showed that the $5 fee                  
  would be revenue-neutral, and so it was increased to $10 to                  
  generate revenues.                                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES remarked that he was not comfortable                   
  with establishing the fees in statute.  He would prefer                      
  setting the graduated fee concept in statute and having the                  
  actual amount be set by the department.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 434                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE referred to his work with the tourism                   
  industry, and noted the concerns he had about adding a $20                   
  fee to the already high cost of a guide.  He supported the                   
  bill, and MOVED to adopt CSHB 140 (FSH) and the fiscal note.                 
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections to                      
  adopting CSHB 140 (FSH).  There were none and the MOTION                     
  PASSED.                                                                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE FINKELSTEIN reiterated Representative Davies'                 
  concerns about setting the fees in statute.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 448                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE MOVED to pass CSHB 140 (FSH) and                        
  accompanying fiscal note from committee with individual                      
  recommendations.  He asked unanimous consent.                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections.                        
  Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED.                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS referred to the next item for the                          
  committee's consideration, HCR 9.                                            
                                                                               
  HCR 9:  COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT FISHING QUOTAS                                 
                                                                               
  Number 466                                                                   
                                                                               
  BOB HERRON, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE LYMAN                         
  HOFFMAN, PRIME SPONSOR OF HCR 9, told the committee that HCR
  9 recognizes the success of the CDQ (Community Development                   
  Quota) program, and pointed out the involvement of three                     
  departments in that program:  The ADF&G, Community and                       
  Regional Affairs, and the DCED.  The resolution, he                          
  explained, calls for the reauthorization of the CDQ program                  
  and asks that the state draft a comprehensive fisheries                      
  policy that includes CDQs.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 480                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER liked the concept, and commented that                  
  the CDQ program was a positive one.  He asked why the                        
  section regarding the fisheries policy had been included in                  
  HCR 9.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 488                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. HERRON replied that the state needs such a policy, and                   
  it should be a long-term goal.                                               
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON added his praise for the CDQ program,                   
  and said he would like to see HCR 9 include language                         
  speaking in opposition to the Individual Fisheries Quota                     
  (IFQ) program.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 500                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES referred to section four of HCR 9, and                  
  noted that the state had not established a clear policy and                  
  should start working toward that goal.                                       
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER remarked that development of a                         
  comprehensive fisheries policy could result in a horrendous                  
  fiscal note.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 520                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON made a MOTION to move CSHCR 9 (FSH) and                 
  the accompanying zero fiscal note from committee with                        
  individual recommendations.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 526                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS asked if there were any objections to the                  
  motion.  Hearing none, the MOTION PASSED.                                    
                                                                               
  ANNOUNCEMENTS                                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN WILLIAMS announced the Resources Committee would                    
  next meet on March 29 to consider HB 201, HB 76, and HB 132.                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES, regarding the Mental Health Lands                      
  Trust issue, HB 201, remarked that she would like to have                    
  her concerns on record.  These concerns included the                         
  valuations already paid.  She supported repaying the trust                   
  and then having the legislature support the state's mental                   
  health programs.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 545                                                                   
                                                                               
  VICE CHAIRMAN HUDSON suggested that when HB 201 is heard                     
  again in committee, members' concerns could be included in                   
  the recommendations made at that time.                                       
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  There being no further business to come before the House                     
  Resources Committee, Chairman Williams adjourned the meeting                 
  at 9:27 a.m.                                                                 

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