Legislature(2019 - 2020)SENATE FINANCE 532

01/20/2020 10:00 AM BICAMERAL PERMANENT FUND WORKING GROUP

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10:05:55 AM Start
10:06:31 AM Overview: Working Group Draft Report
10:52:31 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Working group draft report TELECONFERENCED
**Streamed live on AKL.tv**
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
             BICAMERAL PERMANENT FUND WORKING GROUP                                                                           
                        January 20, 2020                                                                                        
                           10:05 a.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Jennifer Johnston, Co-Chair                                                                                      
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins                                                                                          
Representative Kelly Merrick                                                                                                    
Representative Adam Wool                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Click Bishop, Co-Chair                                                                                                  
Senator Shelley Hughes                                                                                                          
Senator Donald Olson                                                                                                            
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Representative Sara Hannan                                                                                                      
Representative Andy Josephson                                                                                                   
Representative Bart LeBon                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Cathy Giessel                                                                                                           
Senator Josh Revak                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
OVERVIEW: WORKING GROUP DRAFT REPORT                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
No previous action to record                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:05:55 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR JENNIFER  JOHNSTON called  the Bicameral  Permanent Fund                                                             
Working Group meeting to order at  10:05 a.m. Present at the call                                                               
to order were Representatives  Wool, Kreiss-Tomkins, Merrick, and                                                               
Co-Chair Johnston.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
10:06:31 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR  CLICK BISHOP  announced  that present  at  the call  to                                                             
order were Senators Olson, Hughes, Stedman, and Co-Chair Bishop.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:06:36 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR  JOHSTON said  the  working group  was  joined by  other                                                               
members  of the  legislature. Present  were Senators  Giessel and                                                               
Revak; Representatives Josephson, Hannan, and Lebon.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
^OVERVIEW: Working Group Draft Report                                                                                           
              OVERVIEW: Working Group Draft Report                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:07:11 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSTON   announced  that  the  business   before  the                                                               
bicameral  working group  is to  review the  Working Group  Draft                                                               
Report, dated January 20, 2020.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
She explained  that the report  represents a summary of  the work                                                               
the  working  group   has  done  over  the   last  seven  months,                                                               
including:  a history  of the  creation of  the working  group, a                                                               
brief  history of  the Alaska  permanent fund  dividend (PFD),  a                                                               
synopsis of  each of  the working  group's meetings,  the working                                                               
group's models the working group evaluated.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
She said  House Concurrent Resolution  101 (HCR 101)  created the                                                               
working  group   and  charged  the   group  with   making  policy                                                               
recommendations on  the future  use of the  earnings of  the PFD.                                                               
The report does  not make a recommendation on changes  to the PFD                                                               
formula or  the size  of the  PFD check.  However, the  group was                                                               
able to  establish and recommend  that the permanent  fund should                                                               
be  protected  from  inflation and  the  legislature  should  not                                                               
utilize more of  the earnings reserve that is  outlined in Senate                                                               
Bill 26 (SB  26) from 2018, otherwise known as  percent of market                                                               
value (POMV).                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
She pointed out at the  last meeting, the working group evaluated                                                               
several different  scenarios related to  the use of  the earnings                                                               
reserve and  the size  of the  dividend check.  She said  she was                                                               
pleased  that  the  working  group   developed  a  framework  for                                                               
modeling  the options  heading  into the  second  session of  the                                                               
Thirty-First Alaska  State Legislature. She pointed  out that the                                                               
models represent  a snapshot in  time. The models only  assumed a                                                               
$50 million supplemental and was  based off the Alaska Department                                                               
of  Revenue's Spring  2019 Revenue  Forecast.  Since the  working                                                               
group  meeting in  October, the  Fall 2019  Revenue Forecast  was                                                               
released   that   resulted   in  an   additional   shortfall   of                                                               
approximately  $200 million  and  a  preliminary supplemental  of                                                               
approximately $230 million.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  JOHNSTON  asked  if  any working  group  member  had  a                                                               
comment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HUGHES  thanked  the  individuals  that  worked  on  the                                                               
working group report. She highlighted  that one of the edits that                                                               
she  suggested  was  in  the first  paragraph  of  the  executive                                                               
summary  regarding  what the  working  group  was tasked  to  do.                                                               
Originally, the report  stated that the working  group was tasked                                                               
to submit a  report to the legislature in  January 2020. However,                                                               
the resolution  (HCR 101)  tasked the  working group  with making                                                               
policy  recommendations.  She  asked the  co-chairs  what  policy                                                               
recommendations the working group was making in the report.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR    JOHNSTON   opined    that   the    strongest   policy                                                               
recommendation is  that the  legislature needs  to adhere  to the                                                               
structured draw  no matter what kind  of formula is used  for the                                                               
PFD  and what  revenue the  legislature is  looking for,  for the                                                               
state.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
10:10:54 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR HUGHES  highlighted that  a recommendation she  made that                                                               
was not included in the final  draft was to the last paragraph of                                                               
the executive summary.  She opined that the  executive summary is                                                               
the most important  part of the report because that  is what most                                                               
people  will read.  She said  her  suggestion was  to strike  the                                                               
phrase "To that  end," from the last sentence  because if implies                                                               
that the structured draw itself  takes care of inflation proofing                                                               
and it doesn't.  The structured draw might  indirectly allow some                                                               
funds  outside of  the structured  draw to  inflation proof,  but                                                               
there is no automatic inflation proofing.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
She said  she requested that  the last sentence of  the executive                                                               
summary read as follows:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     A majority of members agree  that use of permanent fund                                                                    
     earnings must stay within draw  limits established by a                                                                    
     structure like the percent of  market value law enacted                                                                    
     in 2018.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
That suggestion was not included in the final draft, she said.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HUGHES said  she  has spoken  with  other working  group                                                               
members about  her concern  and she  made a  suggestion regarding                                                               
the POMV that was not considered.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
10:13:14 AM                                                                                                                   
She  suggested  striking  the  last  sentence  of  the  executive                                                               
summary and inserting:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Also,  members   agree  that  use  of   permanent  fund                                                                    
     earnings  for  state  services and  dividends  must  be                                                                    
     limited in order to protect the permanent fund.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
She said  the executive summary  will still say that  the working                                                               
group  agrees that  there must  be a  limit to  avoid willy-nilly                                                               
spending.  However, she  said  she is  not  comfortable with  the                                                               
current version  of the  executive summary  unless the  words, "A                                                               
majority of members agree" is included.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:13:56 AM                                                                                                                   
At ease.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:20:29 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR JOHNSTON called the committee back to order.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
10:20:38 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  HUGHES withdrew  her previous  suggestion and  offered a                                                               
conceptual  amendment to  strike the  words, "To  that end,"  and                                                               
insert,  "A  majority  of  members  agree  that".  The  last  two                                                               
sentences of the executive summary would read:                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     While agreement on the size  of a dividend may still be                                                                    
     difficult to  attain, members agree that  the permanent                                                                    
     fund must  be protected  from inflation so  that future                                                                    
     generations  of   Alaskans  may  benefit  from   it.  A                                                                    
     majority of  members agree that  use of  permanent fund                                                                    
     earnings must stay within draw  limits established by a                                                                    
     structure like the percent of  market value law enacted                                                                    
     in 2018.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN  asserted that  there  is  a huge  misconception                                                               
within the  working group.  Quite a  bit of  time has  been spend                                                               
debating  the POMV  concept, going  back to  Governor Murkowski's                                                               
administration.   A  couple   of   years   ago  the   legislature                                                               
established  a  POMV structure  that  limited  the draw  to  5.25                                                               
percent and  then to be  5.00 percent.  The comment that  it does                                                               
not take care of inflation  is inaccurate; that is precisely what                                                               
it does. The endowment-style structure  is proven over decades of                                                               
use all over the world.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  STEDMAN   explained  that  what  drives   the  inflation                                                               
proofing is  a draw rate  lower than  the consumption of  all the                                                               
earnings including  what is  lost in  purchasing power.  The 5.25                                                               
percent  or 5.00  percent draw  is  set by  the permanent  fund's                                                               
asset allocation  which is  set by market  returns. That  is what                                                               
drives  the 5  percent based  on  historic global  returns, an  8                                                               
percent draw  cannot produce  the income  to inflation  proof and                                                               
protect the  purchasing power  of the  Alaska Permanent  Fund. He                                                               
continued as follows:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     To  miss  that  point,  to me,  is  phenomenal.  It  is                                                                    
     fundamental to the structure and  to have language that                                                                    
     may give flexibility and cover  to the legislature, the                                                                    
     appropriating  body, to  appropriate  funds above  what                                                                    
     the  portfolio can  return with  inflation and  protect                                                                    
     itself,   and  protect   the  future   Alaskans  is   a                                                                    
     fundamental  abrogation   of  our   responsibility  for                                                                    
     future generations of Alaskans.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:24:20 AM                                                                                                                   
He  emphasized   that  the  current  generation   should  not  be                                                               
consuming all  the revenue and  wealth created from  Alaska's oil                                                               
basin. Some of the wealth  created by the current generation must                                                               
be left  for future  Alaskans. He  said he does  not want  to see                                                               
weasel-words in the  working group report. He  emphasized that he                                                               
wants  to see  the legislature,  regardless of  what the  PFD is,                                                               
protect the  current and future  value of the permanent  fund. He                                                               
opined that the PFD will just default out.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He stressed  that the  permanent fund  must be  protected against                                                               
the  legislature  spending  it  and  noted  that  both  political                                                               
parties have made  motions on the floor of the  bodies to do just                                                               
that. The  issue does  not reside  on one  side of  the political                                                               
spectrum or the  other. He said the legislature  worked very hard                                                               
to build  the Constitutional  Budget Reserve  (CBR) to  well over                                                               
$10 billion.  Assuming the proposed  budget passes  this session,                                                               
it has been  depleted to $500 million. He said  he disagrees with                                                               
those  who do  not  think  the legislature  will  spend down  the                                                               
permanent fund  if the window is  open. The depletion of  the CBR                                                               
over the last several years is proof of that.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He stated  that he would like  the working group to  hold firm on                                                               
the language  in the final  report to make  it very clear  to the                                                               
public that  regardless of  the financial  demands over  the last                                                               
several years,  the purchasing power  of the permanent  fund will                                                               
not be depleted. Spending the  entire earnings reserve only takes                                                               
a majority vote of bodies and a signature by the governor.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:26:53 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR  BISHOP   pointed  out  that   a  good  thing   for  the                                                               
legislature as a  whole is that the  POMV provides predictability                                                               
on  what the  earnings  will  be for  the  next year's  budgeting                                                               
cycle. The POMV  is an important piece of  legislation that gives                                                               
the legislature the predictability for building future budgets.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGHES  responded that she appreciates  Senator Stedman's                                                               
comments  and   generally  agrees  with  his   concern  that  the                                                               
permanent fund should truly be  protected for future generations.                                                               
However, the  fact is that  the court ruling and  the legislature                                                               
can go  outside the POMV  draw with  a simple majority  vote. She                                                               
opined that  the only way  to inflation proof the  permanent fund                                                               
is to  do what was done  in fiscal year  2020 and that is  to put                                                               
funds from the  earnings reserve into the  corpus. She reiterated                                                               
that taking  a limited  draw does  not secure  inflation proofing                                                               
for the permanent fund.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:28:40 AM                                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS agreed  with Senator  Stedman that                                                               
the permanent  fund must be  protected. He opined that  the order                                                               
of priority  is that without a  permanent fund you do  not have a                                                               
permanent fund  dividend. He said  as somebody who  is passionate                                                               
about  the future,  integrity and  intergenerational solvency  of                                                               
the  permanent  fund,   he  also  believes  in  the   PFD  as  an                                                               
institution.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He  said he  appreciates  the report,  including Senator  Hughes'                                                               
amendment, and believes that every  member supports the integrity                                                               
and protection  of the permanent  fund. However, the  report does                                                               
not create an  orb of protection for the permanent  fund into the                                                               
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He opined that as much as Senate  Bill 26 (SB 26) was a watershed                                                               
moment  in  terms  of  how  the state  is  going  to  manage  the                                                               
permanent  fund asset,  there is  ongoing risk  to the  permanent                                                               
fund  and that  risk  will always  exist. The  risk  is so  great                                                               
because  the  stakes  are  so  great  that  statute  alone  or  a                                                               
consensus that  may evaporate from legislature  to legislature or                                                               
decade to decade into the future  is not sufficient to protect an                                                               
asset that is the best thing Alaska has going.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  said he appreciates the  work that                                                               
the  working  group has  done  but  he believes  the  legislature                                                               
ultimately has to rely on  the constitution to provide protection                                                               
that is  inviolate. A  report and  executive summary  cannot make                                                               
the permanent fund truly permanent  as whims change and political                                                               
winds blow.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:31:06 AM                                                                                                                   
He said  his second  comment is that  the executive  summary does                                                               
not  address the  permanent fund  dividend formula.  He expressed                                                               
appreciation  for  Senator  Hughes' comments  during  a  previous                                                               
meeting  in terms  of  what the  PFD formula  can  look like.  He                                                               
opined  that  all   members  know  that  the  PFD   needs  to  be                                                               
reexamined. However,  so long as  the PFD formula  is unresolved,                                                               
there is  going to be political  risk to the permanent  fund, not                                                               
because there  are people  who want to  raid the  permanent fund,                                                               
but because there is huge  unresolved business in Alaska. So long                                                               
as there is  unresolved business regarding the  PFD formula, then                                                               
the permanent fund becomes the potential collateral damage.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He opined that there is a  lot of potential for the working group                                                               
to  work  on the  PFD  formula.  He said  even  though  he has  a                                                               
different  perspective  than  Senator  Hughes  on  what  the  PFD                                                               
formula  should  look like,  it  is  important  for there  to  be                                                               
resolution in order to protect the permanent fund.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  OLSON commented  that Senator  Stedman has  a very  good                                                               
understanding of  what the  nuts and  bolts are  for some  of the                                                               
financial situations  the state finds  itself in and POMV  is one                                                               
of those issues.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He   shared  that   his  constituents   do  not   have  a   clear                                                               
understanding of what  the POMV says or does so  it's easy for it                                                               
to be misinterpreted. The POMV  methodology may be interpreted as                                                               
being detrimental to the future  of his constituents' sacred cow,                                                               
the PFD.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He offered his  belief that the working group is  trying to agree                                                               
that the  permanent fund should  be protected.  He said he  is in                                                               
favor of the amendment because it  makes it very clear for people                                                               
to understand without having a strong financial background.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:34:41 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR HUGHES pointed out that the  POMV is a percentage off the                                                               
value of the  entire fund. Over a number of  years, the POMV draw                                                               
works and that is why a lot  of people that are skilled in fiscal                                                               
matters recommend  it. However, a 5  percent draw in a  series of                                                               
bad years could eat into the corpus of the permanent fund.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR HUGHES remarked that the  working group has not discussed                                                               
other  options  to  the  POMV  methodology.  She  suggested  that                                                               
another  example  could  go  back to  the  original  formula  but                                                               
subtract proofing  and put it  in the  corpus prior to  the 50:50                                                               
split for the  PFD and state services. The  original formula only                                                               
deals  with earnings  and avoids  having to  worry about  dipping                                                               
into the permanent fund corpus during bad years.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:37:06 AM                                                                                                                   
SENATOR  STEDMAN reiterated  that the  POMV looks  at the  entire                                                               
portfolio market to  market. The liquidation value  of all assets                                                               
is calculated  every year  and averaged over  a four  to six-year                                                               
period to  smooth the  revenue stream  for the  predictability of                                                               
not only  dividends but for  monies used  in a budget.  He opined                                                               
that for  the Alaska  Legislature to reinvent  how to  manage its                                                               
portfolios for the  long-term best interest of  Alaskans would be                                                               
ludicrous.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He emphasized that the POMV  methodology has been implemented all                                                               
over  the  world  on  virtually  all  the  large  endowments  and                                                               
sovereign wealth  funds on  the planet.  If the  POMV methodology                                                               
was  structurally  flawed,  it  would   have  showed  up  in  the                                                               
financial  meltdown  of  2008-2010   when  most  of  the  banking                                                               
industry  got wiped  out and  the industrial  base got  crippled.                                                               
There was also the dot-com meltdown  in 2000, the huge selloff in                                                               
October 1985, and the collapse in 1929.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He maintained that the legislature  does not need to reinvent the                                                               
wheel on  some politically expedient  way. The  legislature needs                                                               
to protect its wealth  fund and the way to do that  is to run and                                                               
manage a  POMV. Inflation will take  care of itself over  time if                                                               
the  POMV draw  rate is  sufficiently low  enough to  allow gross                                                               
earnings to exceed inflation plus the draw.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He  conceded that  there will  be several  years of  bear markets                                                               
where the overall  value of a portfolio moves  down. However, the                                                               
portfolio value  is smoothed out  by looking back  and averaging.                                                               
Bear markets  cannot be  avoided in  the financial  markets, even                                                               
bonds held to maturity fluctuate  daily due to interest rates and                                                               
economic conditions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:40:23 AM                                                                                                                   
He  pointed  out  that  the  permanent  fund  portfolio  is  well                                                               
diversified and  continues to diversify  even further.  The asset                                                               
classes  within  the permanent  fund  keeps  spreading out  every                                                               
decade   to  protect   the  state   from  economic   shocks.  The                                                               
legislature has multiple meetings in  both finance rooms on asset                                                               
allocation  of   the  permanent   fund  to   address  asset-class                                                               
weighting.  The  responsibility  of sitting  in  the  legislature                                                               
necessitates the need to rely  on experts in particular fields. A                                                               
consultant  for  the permanent  fund,  Callan,  confers with  the                                                               
legislature  and  permanent  fund  personnel to  talk  about  the                                                               
permanent fund.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN  opined that having the  legislature reinvent and                                                               
experiment with how to run the  Alaska Permanent Fund would be an                                                               
absolute disaster. Alaska  knows how to run  its sovereign wealth                                                               
fund by  allowing other sovereign  wealth funds around  the world                                                               
to lead the  way. The intent is to not  be overly complicated but                                                               
to  simplify so  that  the  public, as  Senator  Olson said,  can                                                               
understand. Alaska  does not need  to lead, what the  state needs                                                               
to do is  follow and allow the permanent fund  to grow, hopefully                                                               
to get  the fund to $80  billion to $100 billion  and to continue                                                               
on.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He  noted that  there are  communities in  the state  that run  a                                                               
similar POMV  model. The City of  Sitka has run a  POMV model for                                                               
over 20  years. The methodology  is nothing new.  However, having                                                               
too heavy of a POMV draw  is as detrimental to Sitka's POMV model                                                               
as having  too big of  a POMV draw is  to the permanent  fund for                                                               
the State of Alaska.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He said the  other comment that he  would like to make  is on the                                                               
state's  earnings reserve.  The  earnings reserve  is  of such  a                                                               
significant  size that  the  account will  continue  to grow  and                                                               
become an  ever-increasing spending target. The  earnings reserve                                                               
is  spendable  with a  21-and-11  vote  and  a signature  by  the                                                               
governor.  The more  that can  be transferred  from the  earnings                                                               
reserve to  the constitutionally protected permanent  fund corpus                                                               
the better.  Last year  the legislature moved  $5 billion  to the                                                               
corpus and  his hope is that  more is moved because  if there are                                                               
billions of dollars sitting in  the earnings reserve to be easily                                                               
spent, the account is a target.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:43:14 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR JOHNSTON pointed out that  the Alaska Permanent Fund has                                                               
won  multiple international  awards  and  other sovereign  wealth                                                               
funds are  looking at Alaska's  fund as a  source of how  to best                                                               
operate.  The state  is  very fortunate  to  have excellent  fund                                                               
managers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR JOHNSTON  opined that the  legislature forgets  that its                                                               
lane  is  a  lane  of  appropriation and  not  a  lane  of  asset                                                               
allocation. The legislature's lane is  not the lane of management                                                               
of the  permanent fund, it  is a lane  of how to  appropriate the                                                               
earnings reserve account.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL opined  that the  initial directive  for the                                                               
working group was to talk about  how to deal with the earnings of                                                               
the permanent fund  and not the PFD, specifically.  Last year was                                                               
a big sea change in that for  the first time in history the state                                                               
used earnings  from the permanent  fund to fund  state government                                                               
where  the funds  now compete  with the  PFD. Traditionally,  the                                                               
permanent fund  funded the PFD  and oil funded  state government.                                                               
Recently, the legislature used savings  to fund state government.                                                               
However, the  legislature is now at  a point where it  cannot use                                                               
savings anymore.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He opined  that the use of  earnings from the permanent  fund for                                                               
state  government is  the crux  of the  problem. The  legislature                                                               
needs to protect  the permanent fund indefinitely  because no one                                                               
knows what the  future holds for oil revenue. No  one is going to                                                               
predict oil is going to come  back and save the day. Saudi Arabia                                                               
just decided to sell their oil  company to create an endowment to                                                               
live  on  in   perpetuity  as  well,  a  decision   that  is  the                                                               
responsible thing to do.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:45:57 AM                                                                                                                   
He noted  that Representative Kreiss-Tomkins and  Senator Stedman                                                               
alluded to enshrining the permanent fund  draw in such a way that                                                               
it cannot  be violated; that is  a rule of an  endowment to stick                                                               
with its rules  and not overdraw. Then the  endowment should live                                                               
in perpetuity  to fund the things  that the state needs  to fund.                                                               
How the legislature  splits up permanent fund  earnings for state                                                               
government and  other things is another  discussion. He concurred                                                               
with previous  comments that hard  and fast rules must  be placed                                                               
on the permanent fund to not exceed the draw.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He said also mentioned in the  working group document is the $1.5                                                               
billion in  the earnings  reserve which is  monies that  were not                                                               
used  to pay  the  statutory  PFD formula.  There  are people  on                                                               
different sides who  look at the $1.5 billion  as being available                                                               
to  pay  a  onetime  surplus  PFD.  Doing  so  would  exceed  the                                                               
permanent  fund draw  and  place the  legislature  on a  slippery                                                               
slope. The  $1.5 billion should  stay in  the fund and  be locked                                                               
in.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOOL  noted  that  Representative  Kreiss-Tomkins                                                               
mentioned constitutionalizing  the POMV draw  as the only  way to                                                               
safeguard  the  earnings  from  51  percent  of  the  legislature                                                               
suddenly deciding that  they need to access the funds  to pay out                                                               
a bonus  check. Hopefully the  legislature will figure out  a way                                                               
to stick to that, he said.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIR  BISHOP  opined that  the  answer  is in  the  executive                                                               
summary and historical  look back; the legislature  almost had it                                                               
in 2018 but was not able to get it over the top.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:49:03 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR  BISHOP  moved  to  adopt  and  finalize  the  Bicameral                                                               
Permanent Fund Working Group Report, as amended.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HUGHES said  she appreciated  the  motion that  Co-Chair                                                               
Bishop  made. She  referred to  page  9 in  the report  regarding                                                               
earnings versus market value, noting  that she disagreed with the                                                               
tone in the section. She said  she would not make any suggestions                                                               
for  editing the  section, but  she didn't  believe the  original                                                               
formula was  inherently wrong  and volatile.  She opined  that if                                                               
the state  had done a better  job of living within  its means and                                                               
been  more careful  with savings,  the legislature  would not  be                                                               
facing a  situation that  pits the PFD  against paying  for state                                                               
services.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOOL  pointed out  that on page  4 of  the report,                                                               
the $10  million motor fuel tax  in 1970 accounted for  6 percent                                                               
of the state's revenue.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:51:31 AM                                                                                                                   
CO-CHAIR JOHNSTON  announced that  there being no  objection, the                                                               
motion made by Co-Chair Bishop passed.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
She thanked  the working group  and the staff members  who worked                                                               
on finalizing the report.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:52:31 AM                                                                                                                   
There being  no further  business to  come before  the committee,                                                               
Co-Chair Johnston adjourned the  Bicameral Permanent Fund Working                                                               
Group meeting at 10:52 a.m.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
Draft Permanent Fund Working Group Report, 19 January 2020.pdf JPFG 1/20/2020 10:00:00 AM
Bicameral Permanent Fund Working Group
Bicameral Permanent Fund Working Group Report, 20 January 2020.pdf JPFG 1/20/2020 10:00:00 AM
Bicameral Permanent Fund Working Group
Bicameral Permanent Fund Working Group Report With Title Page, 20 January 2020.pdf JPFG 1/20/2020 10:00:00 AM
Bicameral Permanent Fund Working Group