Legislature(1999 - 2000)
02/10/2000 05:10 PM House MLV
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON
MILITARY AND VETERANS' AFFAIRS
February 10, 2000
5:10 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chairman
Representative Brian Porter
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Sharon Cissna
Representative Eric Croft
Representative Richard Foster
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Jeannette James
Representative Gail Phillips
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 289
"An Act relating to transportation of members of the Alaska
National Guard, the Alaska Naval Militia, and the Alaska State
Defense Force by the Alaska marine highway system and the Alaska
Railroad; and relating to the Alaska State Defense Force."
- MOVED HB 289 OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 289
SHORT TITLE: TRANSPORTATION OF MEMBERS OF ALASKA NATL GUAR
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
1/14/00 1923 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
1/14/00 1924 (H) MLV, TRA, FIN
2/10/00 (H) MLV AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 120
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN HARRIS
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 110
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 289.
THOMAS S. WESTALL, Brigadier General
49th Civil Support Brigade
Alaska State Defense Force/Alaska State Militia
PO Box 5800
Fort Richardson, Alaska 99505-5800
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HB 289.
WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director
of External Affairs
Alaska Railroad Corporation
Department of Community & Economic Development
PO Box 107500
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7500
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 289.
LAURIE HERMAN, Director
of Passenger Service
Alaska Railroad Corporation
Department of Community & Economic Development
PO Box 107500
Anchorage, Alaska 99510-7500
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 289.
NORM EDWARDS, Captain
Operations Manager
Alaska Marine Highway System
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities
3132 Channel Drive
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 289.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 00-04, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN LISA MURKOWSKI called the House Special Committee on
Military and Veterans' Affairs meeting to order at 5:10 p.m.
Members present at the call to order were Representatives
Murkowski, Kott, and Cissna. Representatives Porter, Croft and
Foster arrived as the meeting was in progress.
HB 289 - TRANSPORTATION OF MEMBERS OF ALASKA NATL GUAR
CHAIRMAN MURKOWSKI announced the first order of business as House
Bill 289, "An Act relating to transportation of members of the
Alaska National Guard, the Alaska Naval Militia, and the Alaska
State Defense Force by the Alaska marine highway system and the
Alaska Railroad; and relating to the Alaska State Defense Force."
Number 0056
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN HARRIS, Alaska State Legislature, came forward
to present the sponsor statement. The bill mandates that the
Alaska Marine Highway System [AMHS] and the Alaska Railroad
Corporation [ARRC] provide free transportation, on a
space-available basis, for members of the volunteer defense forces
- the Alaska National Guard, the Alaska Naval Militia and the
Alaska State Defense Force. It is expensive to travel to training
areas because the state has such a wide area from which it draws
its volunteers. The bill, therefore, would provide a cheaper way
to get to those training areas on a consistent basis. The bill
would also change the name of the Alaska State Militia to "Alaska
State Defense Force."
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS referred to the fiscal note from the
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities and pointed out
that the $5-thousand figure is based on the assumption that
vehicles are included. He thinks that the figure would be smaller
because the bill does not allow for the cost of transporting a
vehicle; it only allows for passengers.
Number 0352
REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT asked Representative Harris why the term
"militia" is being changed to "defense force."
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS replied the term is being changed in order to
be consistent with the federal government. He pointed out that the
defense force/militia is different than the national guard in that
they can be called upon by the governor in the event of an
emergency.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Representative Harris whether the state
would still have a naval militia.
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS replied the bill would not change the naval
militia.
Number 0457
REPRESENTATIVE SHARON CISSNA asked Representative Harris whether he
can correct the fiscal note from the Department of Transportation
& Public Facilities since there was a misunderstanding.
REPRESENTATIVE HARRIS replied he can't correct it, but the
department can. He will try to get a corrected fiscal note [from
the department] before the bill reaches the House Finance
Committee.
Number 0513
THOMAS S. WESTALL, Brigadier General, 49th Civil Support Brigade,
Alaska State Defense Force/Alaska State Militia, came before the
committee to testify. The bill provides the Alaska State Defense
Force, the Alaska National Guard, and the Alaska Naval Militia the
use of a great facility. It gives them the opportunity to utilize
forces in Southeast Alaska, when in the past they couldn't because
of the extreme expense associated with moving those troops. He
pointed out that they can't even be used at disasters in a reserve
capacity, which causes somewhat of a strain on the troops that are
committed. He noted that the defense force/militia has been at
every disaster that the state has declared since 1986, and that
they are at numerous other functions. He cited participating in
community services, acting as a force multiplier for many agencies
including the state troopers, and participating in Y2K [activities]
as examples. He also cited that the defense force/militia
furnishes the military police to help the Wasilla Police Department
during the Iditarod restart, so that Wasilla Police Department
doesn't have to uncover their regular patrols.
GENERAL WESTALL pointed out that the defense force/militia has a
unit in Fairbanks, two battalions in Anchorage, an aviation and
medical detachment at headquarters [in Anchorage]. He further
commented that the defense force/militia is held to 15 percent of
their round-out strength because of a national guard regulation,
which equates to 254 troops. In conclusion, he stated that the
defense force/militia is proud of what they do, and they feel that
the bill would help them do a better job.
Number 0804
CHAIRMAN MURKOWSKI asked General Westall to explain the reasoning
behind changing the term "militia" to "defense force."
GENERAL WESTALL replied the reason is related to the national guard
being federalized. He explained, during that time, there was
concern because the FBI [Federal Bureau of Investigation] was
having trouble with organizations being called a militia by the
media, thereby creating a bad connotation. He explained the title
"Alaska State Guard" was tried, but it was too close to the
identity of the Alaska National Guard. He further explained the
authority granted to the national guard [32 U.S. Code Title 32]
says that several states can have a national guard and a "state
defense force," which is where the idea for the name came from.
Number 1079
REPRESENTATIVE RICHARD FOSTER asked General Westall whether the
defense force/militia's office is located in Anchorage.
GENERAL WESTALL replied yes. The defense force/militia doesn't
have full-time employees like the national guard, but they have
volunteers on Tuesdays and Fridays to keep their personnel records
continuous; they would be happy to show him around.
Number 1157
REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER commented that he didn't know there was
a place for old, retired military policemen. [The comment was
followed by laughter.]
GENERAL WESTALL pointed out that all of the defense force/militia's
instructors train with police instructors who are certified with
the state. He cited that Walter J. Gillmore (ph) is the operation
and training officer for the brigade.
Number 1230
WENDY LINDSKOOG, Director of External Affairs, Alaska Railroad
Corporation [ARRC], Department of Community & Economic Development,
testified via teleconference from Anchorage. She indicated that
there will not be any fiscal impact to the railroad as long as the
term "space available" is interpreted to mean, "on the date of
travel on regularly scheduled passenger service." She further
mentioned that the ARRC has been linked to the military since its
completion in 1923, which ultimately led to state ownership. The
railroad is concerned about military personnel being bumped due to
the availability of space. She cited as an example on a trip from
Whittier to Fairbanks space might be available from Whittier to
Anchorage but not from Anchorage to Fairbanks. It probably won't
be a problem, however, if everyone involved remains flexible and
understands that it could happen on occasion.
Number 1334
CHAIRMAN MURKOWSKI stated it appears that the railroad continues to
serve the military by moving supplies and equipment. She asked Ms.
Lindskoog whether it's correct to say that there already is a
process in place to transport supplies and equipment for free.
MS. LINDSKOOG replied the railroad does not move equipment for
free. In relation to the movement of troops, she deferred the
question to Laurie Herman from the Alaska Railroad Corporation.
Number 1380
LAURIE HERMAN, Director of Passenger Service, Alaska Railroad
Corporation, Department of Community & Economic Development,
testified via teleconference from Anchorage. She explained that on
several occasions the railroad has worked with the military to
determine a special charter rate to move troops along the Railbelt
for their large exercises.
Number 1420
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER expressed his appreciation for the support of
the ferry system and railroad corporation. He noted that this
issue was brought up in 1992 at which time there was no support
from either system.
Number 1440
NORM EDWARDS, Captain, Operations Manager, Alaska Marine Highway
System, Department of Transportation & Public Facilities, came
before the committee to testify. He read the following into the
record:
We are happy to be part of ensuring Alaska's forces are
being properly trained and ready for emergency
deployment. There are some issues, however, regarding
revenue generation and operations that the committee
ought to be aware of prior to the passage of the bill, so
that all parties involved have the same understanding and
expectations of how the new law would be implemented.
Since revenues are always a paramount concern for the
Alaska Marine Highway System, our concern is first that
the current travel being paid for by federal funds will
now be lost to the state of Alaska. Second, that this
free travel does not occur outside the state of Alaska.
And third, that this new task does not become a burden
for our operations.
The Alaska Marine Highway System would hope that this
legislation would allow operations complimentary to what
we already do. To that end, our plans to implement this
bill will include defining 'space available.' Space
available means just that, space available on the same
day of sailing. We will not make reservations in advance
for this travel, for we cannot displace revenue-paying
passengers or vehicles. Bumping space available does not
guarantee passage for the duration of a voyage, if there
is more than one link in the itinerary. For example, a
Sitka passenger sailing on a space-available passage to
Skagway could be bumped in Juneau, if fare-paying
customers are waiting to sail on standby in Juneau. This
person would have to disembark and wait for the next
sailing with space available to proceed.
Union contracts: Finally, our union contracts allow AMHS
employees to sail on a space-available basis at any time
and have a limitation on vehicle size. It is possible
that a combination of AMHS employees and Alaska state
military personnel will exceed the amount of space
available. In that case, we will allow passage on a
first-come, first-serve basis.
Travel between Alaska ports only: We recommend a change
in the language of Section 2, of the bill, that adds
"between Alaska ports only" immediately after "the Alaska
marine highway system."
Those are the issues that we want to make everyone aware
of Madame Chair, for the Alaska Marine Highway supports
this bill in principle, and I would be happy to answer
any questions. Thank you.
Number 1580
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked Captain Edwards how his testimony would
change since the bill does not include vehicles.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied it would ease the restrictions. The
greatest problem, he reiterated, is the carrying of vehicles,
particularly in the summer when the car decks are full.
Number 1606
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Captain Edwards whether there is a
standby list for marine highway employees to travel on a
space-available basis, similar to how the airlines handle
non-revenue passengers.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied it is based purely on available space.
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Captain Edwards whether non-revenue
passengers simply show up on the day that they want to travel and
bet on the space available.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied, "That is correct."
Number 1644
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT asked Captain Edwards to explain the
Alaska-port to Alaska-port restriction. He imagines that most of
the training would occur in state.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied the restriction was suggested because the
ferry system believes the intent of the bill is from home-of-record
to a point-in-state. He also mentioned that the out-of-state runs
generate the highest revenues and have the least available space.
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated he doesn't see that this would be a
problem; most training would occur in state, but if a person needs
to get to Prince Rupert for training and space is available then...
Number 1686
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA said there always seems to be extra room on
the ferries for passengers without a vehicle, even during busy
times. She asked Captain Edwards whether the ferries ever reach
their limit.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied it's true there is extra room for
passengers, but it's not nearly as true for vehicles.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA asked Captain Edwards, What percentage of the
time do the ferries reach their maximum limit?
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied not very often; it is in the single
percentile. He noted that the Coast Guard sets the legal limit.
Number 1772
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Captain Edwards whether it's possible
for someone to call a few days in advance to check the possibility
of available space.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied, certainly, but it would take time away
from those making reservations and compete with paying customers.
Number 1809
CHAIRMAN MURKOWSKI referred to the assumptions made by the
Department of Transportation & Public Facilities in their fiscal
note, and said she would be discouraged from getting on a ferry
since she might get bumped.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied the fiscal note assumes that the bill
included vehicles - the area of real conflict. He noted that there
are people waiting in standby to get their vehicle on a ferry, and
that the ferry system doesn't know what that list will be like
until a ship gets in.
CHAIRMAN MURKOWSKI stated there must be a way to wait-list
non-revenue passengers in order to provide some assurance. The
airline industry does it all the time.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied the ferry system can give an idea of what
the booking looks like, but that doesn't guarantee space, which is
exactly how it works for their employees.
Number 1926
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Captain Edwards whether there is a
reason for the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities to
"not" submit a zero fiscal note since vehicles are not included in
the bill.
CAPTAIN EDWARDS replied, "I would say there is very little impact."
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked Captain Edwards whether that qualifies
as a "yes."
CAPTAIN EDWARD replied in the affirmative.
Number 1942
REPRESENTATIVE FOSTER stated when he travels with an airline pass
he is told that he might get bumped; it is based on available
space. He said, "A guy takes his chances. You can't get something
for free without a risk. And they were free trips, and I paid for
it by getting stuck. But I didn't mind because they told me so."
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA stated it's important to remember that these
individuals are traveling for training purposes in order to help
fellow Alaskans in a time of crisis. She agrees with the concept
of available space, but she also hopes that the people of the ferry
system recognize and treat these individuals nicer in the spirit of
patriotism; they are doing something for the state.
CHAIRMAN MURKOWSKI closed the meeting to public testimony.
Number 2038
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to move HB 289 out of the
committee with individual recommendations and attached zero fiscal
notes. There being no objection, HB 289 so moved from the House
Special Committee on Military and Veterans' Affairs.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, Chairman
Murkowski adjourned the House Special Committee on Military and
Veterans' Affairs meeting at 5:45 p.m.
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