Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120

03/30/2017 01:00 PM MILITARY & VETERANS' AFFAIRS

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Audio Topic
01:07:23 PM Start
01:08:10 PM HB152
03:03:10 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 152 ORGANIZED MILITIA; AK ST. DEFENSE FORCE TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
   HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON MILITARY AND VETERANS' AFFAIRS                                                                  
                         March 30, 2017                                                                                         
                           1:07 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Chris Tuck, Chair                                                                                                
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux, Vice Chair                                                                                     
Representative Justin Parish                                                                                                    
Representative Ivy Spohnholz                                                                                                    
Representative George Rauscher                                                                                                  
Representative Lora Reinbold                                                                                                    
Representative Dan Saddler                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 152                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the organized militia; and relating to the                                                                  
authority of the adjutant general."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 152                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ORGANIZED MILITIA; AK ST. DEFENSE FORCE                                                                            
SPONSOR(s): MILITARY & VETERANS' AFFAIRS                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
03/06/17       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/06/17       (H)       MLV, STA                                                                                               
03/14/17       (H)       MLV AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/14/17       (H)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
03/23/17       (H)       MLV AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/23/17       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/23/17       (H)       MINUTE(MLV)                                                                                            
03/30/17       (H)       MLV AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT DOEHL, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                               
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Military & Veterans' Affairs                                                                                      
Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions  during the hearing of HB                                                             
152.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEGAN WALLACE, Attorney                                                                                                         
Legislative Legal Counsel                                                                                                       
Legislative Legal Services                                                                                                      
Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions  during the hearing of HB                                                             
152.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:07:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CHRIS TUCK  called the House Special  Committee on Military                                                             
and   Veterans'   Affairs  meeting   to   order   at  1:07   p.m.                                                               
Representatives  Tuck,   Parish,  Rauscher,  and   Reinbold  were                                                               
present  at  the  call  to  order.    Representatives  Spohnholz,                                                               
Saddler, and LeDoux arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
         HB 152-ORGANIZED MILITIA; AK ST. DEFENSE FORCE                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:08:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK  announced that  the only order  of business  would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 152, "An  Act relating to the  organized militia;                                                               
and relating to the authority of the adjutant general."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:08:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT DOEHL,  Deputy Commissioner,  Office of  the Commissioner,                                                               
Department of Military & Veterans'  Affairs (DMVA), stated DMVA's                                                               
support for HB 152.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH asked  whether  DMVA has  objections to  a                                                               
forthcoming amendment he submitted for review by the department.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said DMVA has no objections.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD  questioned  whether DMVA  has  received                                                               
testimony  - in  support of  or in  opposition to  HB 152  - from                                                               
members of the Alaska State Defense Force (ASDF).                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL related he has  heard support expressed by Colonel John                                                               
James, commander of ASDF.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD expressed  her interest  in receiving  a                                                               
unanimous resolution from members of ASDF.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL expressed  his belief  command has  made ASDF  members                                                               
aware  of  the  bill;  however,  he said  he  was  unaware  of  a                                                               
resolution from members.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD restated her question  as to if, and how,                                                               
every member was notified and given an opportunity to respond.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  pointed out  [the legislation] is  a matter  of public                                                               
record.   He acknowledged each  member has not  been individually                                                               
served notice  of the bill,  nor has a unanimous  resolution been                                                               
solicited.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK noted the governor is aware of the legislation.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  surmised many  members may not  be aware                                                               
of the bill.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  said he could not  speak to the number  of members who                                                               
have actual knowledge.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD directed  attention to written opposition                                                               
to HB 152  from Lawrence D. Wood [dated 3/20/17]  provided in the                                                               
committee  packet.   She  said  the  aforementioned testimony  is                                                               
evidence  there  is opposition  to  the  bill and  expressed  her                                                               
opposition to the bill at this time.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  said  Mr.  Wood  is  no  longer  a  member  of  ASDF;                                                               
recognized Mr. Wood's previous service.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:12:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH posited  a  situation in  which the  state                                                               
suffered another  major earthquake  and members of  the organized                                                               
militia  were  ordered  into  service  by  the  governor  or  the                                                               
adjutant general.  He asked  for affirmation that the members are                                                               
"protected" in terms of possible  injuries; however, were members                                                               
acting as Good  Samaritans, they would not have  the "umbrella of                                                               
protections offered by the state."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said, "That is correct."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH  surmised offering members  more protection                                                               
is wise;  in fact, [the bill,  by saving time] may  save civilian                                                               
lives and honors  the state's moral obligation to  members of the                                                               
militia.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said, "That is correct."                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  asked what members of  the militia would                                                               
be doing in the aforementioned scenario.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH  said the militia  would be trying  to save                                                               
lives  and  digging  civilians  out  of rubble;  if  [HB  152  is                                                               
enacted]  and the  state can  order members  of the  militia into                                                               
service, protections  would be  extended faster,  and bureaucracy                                                               
would not slow down the response to a matter of life and death.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER recalled  previous testimony  before the                                                               
committee  from  various  organizations  and  agencies  that  are                                                               
already   in   position   to   respond,   without   waiting   for                                                               
[authorization from] the governor.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TUCK  opined HB  152  addresses  the  rare case  when  the                                                               
governor  is   unavailable.     Although  fire   departments  are                                                               
dispatched  without approval  from  elected  officials, the  bill                                                               
allows  for a  quick response  [to an  emergency], only  when the                                                               
governor  cannot act.   He  questioned whether  the state  should                                                               
hesitate  if lives,  safety, and  the security  of Alaska  are at                                                               
risk.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  said he had  various questions as  to the                                                               
impact  of  the  proposed  legislation on  the  following:    the                                                               
National   Guard;   the   command    structure   of   ASDF;   the                                                               
responsibilities of drafting  regulations; certain authorities of                                                               
the  governor.   He  stated his  concern  for making  unjustified                                                               
long-term  changes  to  the  structure  of  the  state  organized                                                               
militia.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:20:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  directed attention  to the bill  on page                                                               
3, lines 21-22, which read:                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
      (f) The organized militia may not be used against or                                                                      
         to mitigate a lawful organized labor action or                                                                         
     activity.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  asked for an explanation  of [subsection                                                               
(f) on page 3].                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK  pointed out  [subsection (f) on  page 3]  is existing                                                               
language in statute.                                                                                                            
MR.   DOEHL  explained   the  aforementioned   existing  language                                                               
originated  over  100  hundred  years   ago  and  is  related  to                                                               
deployment  of the  National Guard  to disperse  peaceful [labor]                                                               
union  strikes.    He  noted  the  provision  specifies  "lawful"                                                               
activity  and the  governor  would still  have  the authority  to                                                               
deploy the militia in the case of an unlawful action.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  opined the aforementioned  subsection is                                                               
a new  subsection added by the  bill.  She directed  attention to                                                               
page 6, line 28, which read:                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     (4) not be contrary to federal law or regulations.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   REINBOLD   cautioned  against   yielding   state                                                               
sovereignty to  federal regulations and  law.  She  clarified her                                                               
two  questions:   1.)  whether  [subsection  (f)  on page  3]  is                                                               
necessary; 2.) whether a voluntary  state defense force should be                                                               
subject to federal law or regulations.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL,  in  response  to  Representative  Reinbold's  second                                                               
question, said  the federal government has  explicitly authorized                                                               
state militias by  U.S. Code, Title 32, Section 109,  so there is                                                               
no potential  for "contrary to  federal law or  regulations" with                                                               
the  exception   of  constitutional  violations  which   are  not                                                               
waivable.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  said Alaska is  the first state  to make                                                               
similar significant changes.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said the foregoing  statement is incorrect; the changes                                                               
within  HB 152  would put  Alaska "more  in line  with where  the                                                               
other states have already gone."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD remarked:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     So,  you're  saying  most  of  the  other  states  have                                                                    
     already done  this, they have,  they have  yielded the,                                                                    
     their state defense forces and  everything else in this                                                                    
     bill,  you're  saying  that   most  other  states  have                                                                    
     already done this, it that correct?                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:26:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  answered,  "[Of]  the   states  where  we  have  done                                                               
research,  they,   they  have   already  done,   performed  these                                                               
measures."  Furthermore,  the state militia is  always subject to                                                               
[the  Tenth Amendment  to  the U.S.  Constitution].   In  further                                                               
response to  Representative Reinbold  pertaining to  the specific                                                               
source of supporting research, he  said research was done through                                                               
online  sources  and  through   [WestLaw  online  legal  research                                                               
service for lawyers].                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  asked which specific states  had enacted                                                               
identical legislation.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL said  he could  not provide  that information  at this                                                               
time.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  returned attention to the  bill on [page                                                               
3, lines  21-2], [text  provided previously],  and asked  for the                                                               
definition of [subsection] (f) [on page 3].                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK  provided a brief  description of the origin  of labor                                                               
union  organizations,  noting  that   in  the  late  1800's,  the                                                               
National Guard was manipulated by  business corporations and used                                                               
unlawfully  against civilians.    He clarified  this language  is                                                               
already   in  statute;   however,  HB   152  would   repeal  some                                                               
provisions, thus [subsection (f) on page 3] is added again.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:30:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  moved to report  HB 152 out  of committee                                                               
with  individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  fiscal                                                               
notes.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK objected,  pointing out public testimony  has not been                                                               
heard.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER stated  his  belief  that hearing  public                                                               
testimony is  not "essential  to the process."   He  restated the                                                               
motion.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:31:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease at 1:31 p.m.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:32:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK clarified the motion.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:32:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:32 p.m. to 1:34 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:34:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK removed his objection.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER withdrew his motion                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:34:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH moved  Amendment 1, [labeled 30-LS0366\O.2,                                                               
Wallace, 3/23/17], which read:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3, line 22:                                                                                                           
          Delete "organized labor action or activity"                                                                           
          Insert "activity, including an organized labor                                                                        
     activity"                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:35:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH said  Amendment 1  maintains the  explicit                                                               
protection for organized labor and  explicitly forbids the use of                                                               
the  organized militia  against other  lawful activities  such as                                                               
[First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution] protected protests.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK removed his objection.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  objected to Amendment 1,  expressing her                                                               
understanding that  the amendment would cause  [subsection (f) on                                                               
page 3] to  read, "the organized militia may not  be used against                                                               
or  to  mitigate  an  activity,   including  an  organized  labor                                                               
activity."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH  said no.   He pointed out Amendment  1, on                                                               
line 2,  deletes "organized labor  action or activity,"  thus the                                                               
subsection would  read, "the  organized militia  may not  be used                                                               
against or to mitigate a  lawful activity, including an organized                                                               
labor  activity."    In  response  to  Representative  Reinbold's                                                               
question as to his intent,  Representative Parish recalled a time                                                               
when the National  Guard was used against  Vietnam War protestors                                                               
[and students] at  Kent State University [in Ohio,  May 4, 1970],                                                               
and  he  urged to  explicitly  forbid  the  use of  armed  forces                                                               
against citizens exercising their rights.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD asked "Did  someone bring [the amendment]                                                               
to you?                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH  reminded  the   committee  he  offered  a                                                               
similar  conceptual  amendment  to  HB 152  [at  the  hearing  of                                                               
3/23/17] that  was out  of order.   Amendment  1 was  prepared by                                                               
Legislative Legal  Services, Legislative  Affairs Agency  [at his                                                               
request].                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TUCK  pointed  out  Amendment   1  protects  other  lawful                                                               
activities in addition to those of organized labor.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  advised DMVA's interpretation  of Amendment 1  is that                                                               
the organized  militia would be  barred from infringing  upon the                                                               
rights of any lawful activity.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD repeated her question.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH  further explained Amendment 1  extends the                                                               
protection of organized labor to that  of all people engaged in a                                                               
lawful activity.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:42:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked  for the  distinction  between  an                                                               
action and an activity.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH said  Legislative  Legal  Services made  a                                                               
change  from antiquated  language; for  example, organized  labor                                                               
actions  refer  to  strikes  and other  actions  taken  by  labor                                                               
organizations  which are  protected by  law.   An activity  is an                                                               
action in process.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  clarified  his question  is  whether  an                                                               
activity may be illegal.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH returned  attention to the bill  on page 3,                                                               
line  21 [text  provided previously],  and pointed  out the  word                                                               
lawful  is not  excerpted by  Amendment 1,  thus said  activities                                                               
must be  lawful to enjoy  protection.  Representative  Parish, in                                                               
response to Representative Saddler's  question as to whether only                                                               
legal  activities  are  encompassed,   restated  the  purpose  of                                                               
Amendment 1 is to expand  the protection from specifically lawful                                                               
organized labor actions and activities to all lawful activities.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:45:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   SADDLER  moved   [Conceptual]  Amendment   1  to                                                               
Amendment  1.    He  then  withdrew  Conceptual  Amendment  1  to                                                               
Amendment 1,  and stated his  goal is to remove  "organized labor                                                               
action or".                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:45:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  opined DMVA interprets [subsection  (f) on                                                               
page 3]  as to  preclude the organized  militia from  engaging in                                                               
any action against any lawful activity.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:46:33 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said that is correct.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  suggested  the  existing  statute  is  an                                                               
anachronism from the  time a militia was used  as organized labor                                                               
strikebreakers.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  agreed about the origin  of the language.   He advised                                                               
an  activity not  modified  by  "organized labor"  is  seen as  a                                                               
[First  Amendment to  the  U.S.  Constitution] protected,  lawful                                                               
activity, although there may be ambiguity.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  questioned  the  meaning  of  [existing                                                               
subsection (f) on page 3] as originally drafted.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH explained [existing  subsection (f) on page                                                               
3] is ambiguous, which is corrected by Amendment 1.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  suggested  adding  "including  a  legal                                                               
organized labor activity."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   PARISH   recalled   his   original   [conceptual                                                               
amendment] read,  "including those of organized  labor," although                                                               
Amendment 1 reads as drafted by Legislative Legal Services.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TUCK   suggested  the  committee  hear   an  opinion  from                                                               
Legislative Legal Services.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:52:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD   moved  [Conceptual]  Amendment   2  to                                                               
Amendment 1  that would  delete ",  including an  organized labor                                                               
activity" and would insert a period after the word "activity."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:52:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK objected for discussion purposes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  urged  for an  opinion  from  Legislative                                                               
Legal Services.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:53:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  pointed out  Section 3  is a  new section,                                                               
and yet contains antiquated language.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH explained  related  language  in AS  26.05                                                               
340(a) addresses strikebreaking.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK,  in response Representative  LeDoux's question  as to                                                               
whether [AS 26.05.340(a)] would be  repealed by HB 152, said yes,                                                               
and explained HB 152 would  remove sections from existing statute                                                               
and would transfer the original intent into a new [section].                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:57:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER asked  whether it  is the  intent of  the                                                               
sponsor  of  HB  152  to  provide  special  protection  only  for                                                               
organized labor, or for any legal activity.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:57:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL affirmed HB 152  repeals AS 26.05.340(a), (b,) and (d).                                                               
He said the intent of the  sponsor is to provide protections from                                                               
the militia being deployed against any lawful activity.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER   surmised  Conceptual  Amendment   2  to                                                               
Amendment 1 would achieve DMVA's goal.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK opined  the language [in the bill] is  specific due to                                                               
its historical perspective.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD  asked  whether  Mr.  Doehl  objects  to                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 2 to Amendment 1.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:00:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said he has no objection.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:00:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEGAN   WALLACE,    Attorney,    Legislative    Legal   Counsel,                                                                
Legislative   Legal   Services,   Legislative   Affairs  Agency,                                                                
opined  [on  page  3,  lines  21-22,  subsection  (f)]  modifies                                                                
only  organized  labor action  thus  the [subsection]  prohibits                                                                
the  militia  being   used  against  a  lawful  organized   labor                                                               
action or activity, not any activity in general.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE    REINBOLD    maintained    the   necessity    of                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 2 to Amendment 1.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK  stressed the language  of Amendment 1  [unamended] is                                                               
inclusive of all lawful activity.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ  called for  the question  on Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 2 to Amendment 1.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  restated her  Conceptual Amendment  2 to                                                               
Amendment 1.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:04:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call vote was  taken.  Representatives Reinbold, Rauscher,                                                               
and  Saddler  voted  in  favor   of  Conceptual  Amendment  2  to                                                               
Amendment  1.   Representatives  Spohnholz,  LeDoux, Parish,  and                                                               
Tuck  voted against  it.   Therefore, Conceptual  Amendment 2  to                                                               
Amendment 1 failed by a vote of 3-4.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:04:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:05:32 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ  stated her support for  Amendment 1 due                                                               
to the amendment's explicit language related to organized labor.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER cautioned against  passing laws based upon                                                               
historical matters.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  asked for  affirmation from  Ms. Wallace                                                               
that the intent of Amendment 1 is to protect everybody.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  WALLACE  explained  Amendment  1 would  protect  all  lawful                                                               
activities, including organized labor activities.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  surmised without Amendment 1,  [HB 152] is                                                               
ambiguous as  to whether only  the activities of  organized labor                                                               
are protected.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. WALLACE advised subsection (f)  [on page 3] was a restriction                                                               
against using  the organized militia  against a  lawful organized                                                               
labor  action  or  activity;  as  written,  the  bill  would  not                                                               
expressly  prohibit using  the  organized  militia against  other                                                               
lawful  activities.    In   further  response  to  Representative                                                               
LeDoux's concern  about the  purpose of  Amendment 1,  she agreed                                                               
Amendment  1  achieves  the  purpose   of  including  all  lawful                                                               
activities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:11:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PARISH directed attention to  [the bill on page 3,                                                               
lines 10-13] which read:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     (c) Notwithstanding  (b) of this section,  the adjutant                                                                    
     general  may  not  order  any  part  of  the  organized                                                                    
     militia  into active  state  service  for actions  that                                                                    
     would subject  civilians to the  use of  military power                                                                    
     that  is  regulatory,  prescriptive,  proscriptive,  or                                                                    
     compulsory,  unless  approved  by the  governor  before                                                                    
     giving the order.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  PARISH   stated  there  is  value   to  repeating                                                               
language when pertinent to the rights of citizens.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK removed his objection to Amendment 1.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:13:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER objected to Amendment 1.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:13:34 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A roll call  vote was taken.   Representatives Spohnholz, LeDoux,                                                               
Parish, Rauscher, Saddler,  Reinbold, and Tuck voted  in favor of                                                               
Amendment 1.  Therefore, Amendment 1 passed by a vote of 7-0.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:14:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:14:58 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK paraphrased from the following summary of the bill                                                                   
provided in the committee packet, signed by Deputy Commissioner                                                                 
Doehl and dated 3/22/17 [original punctuation provided]:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Broadly  speaking, HB  152  updates  the original  1955                                                                    
     Alaska  Military  Code  (AMC) by  clarifying  statutory                                                                    
     authorities.   Specifically,  the bill  grants military                                                                    
     command authority  to The  Adjutant General  (TAG), who                                                                    
     already  possesses statutory  control of  the organized                                                                    
     militia.  Military command  authority carries two broad                                                                    
     functions:   1)   legal   authority   over   personnel,                                                                    
     including  the  power  to   discipline;  and  2)  legal                                                                    
     responsibility  for missions  and resources.   The  old                                                                    
     AMC  is unclear  regarding this  kind of  authority and                                                                    
     concomitant responsibility.   For example, it  may seem                                                                    
     logical, but it  is not explicitly set  in statute TAG:                                                                    
     1)  has control,  but  not command  of  the AKARNG  and                                                                    
     AKANG;  2) may  promulgate regulations  for the  AKARNG                                                                    
     and  AKANG;   and  3)  may  order   State  Active  Duty                                                                    
     personnel to work in the Office of the TAG.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Command  and control  are  important  functions in  any                                                                    
     military   organization.     Commanders  set   and  are                                                                    
     responsible for  the organization's  priorities, goals,                                                                    
     and  missions, while  people  in  control direct  their                                                                    
     subordinates to carry out those  missions.  A commander                                                                    
     is  in command  of a  unit and  its subordinate  units,                                                                    
     e.g.,  the  Governor  commands the  AKARNG  and  AKANG,                                                                    
     their   brigades   and   wings,  the   battalions   and                                                                    
     squadrons,  etc.   There  exists  a  chain of  command,                                                                    
     i.e.,  each commander  of a  subordinate unit  commands                                                                    
     his/her  unit  and  is therefore  responsible  for  and                                                                    
     makes final  decisions on matters  that pertain  to the                                                                    
     that unit.   A commander  is responsible for  all their                                                                    
     staffs do  and fail  to do.   A commander  can delegate                                                                    
     this authority, but not the  responsibility.  The final                                                                    
     decision, as well as  the final responsibility, remains                                                                    
     with the commander.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     On the other  hand, control is the  authority to direct                                                                    
     people to  accomplish missions.  A  commander has staff                                                                    
     who  exert "control"  over their  subordinates but  not                                                                    
     command,  i.e., the  principal staff  may direct  their                                                                    
     staff members  to do  things.   The commander  can hold                                                                    
     the principal staff responsible  for their actions, but                                                                    
     as   their  commander,   he/she  is   still  ultimately                                                                    
     responsible  for those  actions.   Even if  someone far                                                                    
     down the  chain who has  no authority over  anyone acts                                                                    
     or  fails to  act  as directed,  the commander  remains                                                                    
     ultimately  responsible for  that person's  actions and                                                                    
     their effect on the larger goals and missions.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     In practice, TAG may be  ultimately responsible for the                                                                    
     Alaska National  Guard.  But,  if this is so,  then TAG                                                                    
     should be a commander, just  as those who are appointed                                                                    
     to  be  commanders on  active  duty.     The  structure                                                                    
     enabled by  HB 152 resembles the  federal Department of                                                                    
     Defense  model, where  the  President is  commander-in-                                                                    
     chief  who   commands  subordinate  commanders   in  an                                                                    
     operational  environment,  i.e., combatant  commanders.                                                                    
     This  structure will  not  degrade  the other  military                                                                    
     functions TAG  holds, such as principal  advisor to the                                                                    
     Governor on military matters.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Extant  law  allows  only the  Governor  to  order  the                                                                    
     organized  militia into  State Active  Duty; this  bill                                                                    
     grants TAG authority to  activate the organized militia                                                                    
     in  emergency  situations  when  the  Governor  is  not                                                                    
     immediately   available.      While  we   expect   such                                                                    
     circumstances will be  rare, we believe it  is vital to                                                                    
     the  safety   and  security   of  Alaskans   for  their                                                                    
     organized  militia to  be able  to respond  immediately                                                                    
     whenever they might be needed.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     HB  152 also  empowers  TAG  to promulgate  regulations                                                                    
     consistent  with   federal  active   duty  regulations,                                                                    
     Alaska  state  law,  and  the  Governor's  intent,  for                                                                    
     internal  use  in  administration and  command  of  the                                                                    
     organized  militia.     This  update  would help  bring                                                                    
     Alaska's organized  militia into  the 21st  Century and                                                                    
     on  par  with  or  better  than  other  state  National                                                                    
     Guards.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     We have reviewed  HB 152 section by  section, and offer                                                                    
     the following analyses and observations:                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Section  1.   Establishes TAG  as in  both command  and                                                                    
     control  of the  organized  militia.   At present,  the                                                                    
     Governor   is  commander-in-chief   and  commands   the                                                                    
     organized   militia,   while   TAG   is   in   control,                                                                    
     subordinate  to  the   Governor,  but  not  statutorily                                                                    
     empowered as the military commander.   HB 152 delegates                                                                    
     the Governor's  command authority  to TAG to  carry out                                                                    
     the   Governor's  policies   in  accordance   with  the                                                                    
     Governor's  instructions  and  empowers  TAG  to  adopt                                                                    
     regulations   necessary  to   the   operation  of   the                                                                    
     organized  militia as  long as  they are  in compliance                                                                    
     with  federal law  and regulation.   Command  authority                                                                    
     enables TAG  to exert  legal authority  over personnel,                                                                    
     including  the  power  to discipline,  and  grants  TAG                                                                    
     legal  responsibility for  missions  and the  resources                                                                    
     needed to carry them out.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section 2.   Establishes circumstances under  which the                                                                    
     Governor may  order the  organized militia  into active                                                                    
     state service and eliminates  the Governor's ability to                                                                    
     delegate to TAG  the authority to order  members of the                                                                    
     organized militia  into active  state service  in order                                                                    
     to fight  wildland fires.  That  authority is clarified                                                                    
     and broadened in Section 3.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section 3.   Describes  a range of  circumstances under                                                                    
     which TAG  may order  members of the  organized militia                                                                    
     into active state service to  respond to emergencies if                                                                    
     the Governor is not immediately  available to do so and                                                                    
     directs TAG  to make reasonable and  continuous efforts                                                                    
     to contact  the Governor  to affirm, amend,  or reverse                                                                    
     TAG's  actions.    This Section  also  restricts  TAG's                                                                    
     authority  in   a  number  of   situations,  preventing                                                                    
     ordering into  active state service in  ways that would                                                                    
     subject  Alaska citizens  to regulatory,  prescriptive,                                                                    
     proscriptive, or  compulsory military  power, including                                                                    
     lawful labor action or activity.   It further specifies                                                                    
     no part  of the organized  militia may leave  the state                                                                    
     without  the Governor's  consent when  in active  state                                                                    
     service.  If the  Governor's approval is not available,                                                                    
     TAG must  reassess orders into active  service no later                                                                    
     than 72 hours  after such orders take effect.   TAG may                                                                    
     order members  of the organized militia  into full-time                                                                    
     duty with the TAG's office.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section  4.   While  the Governor's  orders under  this                                                                    
     Section are  final, TAG's decisions are  always subject                                                                    
     to the Governor's review.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section  5.    This   Section  clarifies  existing  law                                                                    
     specifying  the ASDF  may exist  only with  the express                                                                    
     consent of the  U.S. Congress.  It defines  the ASDF as                                                                    
     a force  subject to  rules, guidelines  and authorities                                                                    
     as specified  by TAG.  Finally,  this Section clarifies                                                                    
     an ASDF  Member engaged in inactive  duty, training, or                                                                    
     community service duties shall  receive benefits if the                                                                    
     Member suffers an injury or  disability, or dies in the                                                                    
     line  of duty,  as  prescribed by  the Alaska  Worker's                                                                    
     Compensation Act (AS 23.30).                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Section 6.   Specifically adds the ASDF to  the list of                                                                    
     entities comprising Alaska's organized militia.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Section  7.   Establishes TAG  and Assistant  Adjutants                                                                    
     General are  subject to regulations under  this chapter                                                                    
     of law and paid according to state law.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Sections  8-10   streamline  day-to-day  administrative                                                                    
     matters   and   free   the  Governor   from   statutory                                                                    
     responsibility to  make or approve  personnel decisions                                                                    
     better made by TAG.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Section 8.  Allows  TAG to recognize federal withdrawal                                                                    
     of   an  officer's   commission   by  vacating   and/or                                                                    
     terminating  that officer's  state appointment  without                                                                    
     prior  approval   of  the  Governor,  as   present  law                                                                    
     requires.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section  9.    Allows  TAG to  accept  resignations  of                                                                    
     commissioned   or   warrant  officers   without   prior                                                                    
     approval of the Governor, as present law requires.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     Section  10.    Allows  TAG   to  place  the  names  of                                                                    
     commissioned  officers and  enlisted  persons upon  the                                                                    
     retired list  without prior  approval of  the Governor,                                                                    
     which present law requires.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section 11.  Relaxes  the requirement for militia units                                                                    
     to be  served by an  active armory before  being issued                                                                    
     arms   or  equipment;   thus,   enabling  small   scout                                                                    
     detachments of  the ASDF to  form in  small communities                                                                    
     that  do not  have, and  are perhaps  unlikely to  ever                                                                    
     have, state  armories.  This Section  also rescinds the                                                                    
     requirement for  all proceeds  received from  rental or                                                                    
     other nonmilitary use  of an armory to  be deposited in                                                                    
     the  state General  Fund, since  federal rules  require                                                                    
     the  state  to  reduce  claims  for  reimbursement  for                                                                    
     facilities maintenance  from the federal  government in                                                                    
     accordance  with the  terms of  the Master  Cooperative                                                                    
     Agreement with the National Guard Bureau.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section 12.   Allows  TAG to  authorize, to  the extent                                                                    
     funds are  available, payment of  tuition and  fees for                                                                    
     ASDF  Members  to  attend educational,  vocational,  or                                                                    
     technical schools in Alaska,  as is presently available                                                                    
     to Alaska  National Guard Members.   TAG may prioritize                                                                    
     categories   of   education   benefits   to   encourage                                                                    
     recruitment and  retention in the four  elements of the                                                                    
     organized militia.   Payments  are to  be made  only to                                                                    
     militia   Members  in   good  standing   in  both   the                                                                    
     educational program and in the organized militia.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Section 13.   Specifies regulations adopted  under this                                                                    
     statute  may   not  be  contrary  to   federal  law  or                                                                    
     regulation.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section  14.   Directs regulations  adopted under  this                                                                    
     statute must conform as nearly  as practicable to rules                                                                    
     governing the U.S. Armed Forces.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section 15.  Allows  the Governor to delegate authority                                                                    
     and provide for subdelegation,  except the powers given                                                                    
     the  Governor  to  convene general  courts-martial  (AS                                                                    
     26.05.450).                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section 16.  Repeals  existing language which is either                                                                    
     no longer necessary, amended,  or reestablished in this                                                                    
     statute, including:                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     •  Relationship  between  Governor  and  TAG  regarding                                                                    
     command  and  control  of  the  organized  militia  (AS                                                                    
     26.05.170); • Mandatory annual  active duty training at                                                                    
     sites  other  than  regular  bases  (AS  26.05.235)  --                                                                    
     Annual  Training schedules  are  controlled by  federal                                                                    
     requirements to  organize, train,  and equip  forces to                                                                    
     meet  federal mission  requirements.   A  state-imposed                                                                    
     limit  on   how  this   training  is   accomplished  is                                                                    
     inconsistent with  the federal  program that  funds it.                                                                    
     Further,   while   the   National  Guard   strives   to                                                                    
     accomplish  training in  a  wide  variety of  operating                                                                    
     environments,  demanding it  of the  ASDF on  a minimum                                                                    
     frequency  could  introduce  additional  costs  to  the                                                                    
     program; •  Use of the organized  militia against labor                                                                    
     organizations  (AS 26.05.340(a));  • Organized  militia                                                                    
     leaving  the  state  with arms  and  equipment  without                                                                    
     Governor's consent  (AS 26.05.340(b)); and  • Necessary                                                                    
     regulations  adopted   by  TAG  and  approved   by  the                                                                    
     Governor (AS 26.05.340(d))                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Finally,  we note  language in  Section 1  stating "the                                                                    
     adjutant  general   shall  adopt  regulations   …."  is                                                                    
     essentially  being  moved  from   AS  26.05.190  to  AS                                                                    
     26.05.060.   As  with  recent legislation  establishing                                                                    
     the new  Alaska Code of  Military Justice, we  take the                                                                    
     position  that  because   regulations  adopted  by  TAG                                                                    
     affect only  the organized militia  and not  the public                                                                    
     at  large, they  are not  subject to  public review  as                                                                    
     required  by the  Administrative  Procedures Act  (APA)                                                                    
     for  other regulations.    We  maintain this  exemption                                                                    
     from  the  APA is  the  correct  interpretation of  the                                                                    
     statute,  but it  is not  entirely explicit.   As  this                                                                    
     point may  be questioned  by legislators  reviewing the                                                                    
     bill in  committee, it might prove  worthwhile to amend                                                                    
     HB 152  to specifically include exemption  from the APA                                                                    
     in AS 26.05.060.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:18:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TUCK   opened  public   testimony  on   HB  152.     After                                                               
ascertaining  no  one wished  to  testify,  public testimony  was                                                               
closed.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER stated  the following  concerns regarding                                                               
HB 152:   uncertainty  related to the  bill's ultimate  goal; the                                                               
bill  proposes  significant  changes  in the  management  of  the                                                               
state's  organized   militia,  in   particular  changes   to  the                                                               
management of the Alaska State  Defense Force (ASDF) justified by                                                               
extreme  circumstances;  unanswered   questions  related  to  the                                                               
current lawful  succession of the  governor's authority  over the                                                               
organized militia.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  said he would  provide further information  related to                                                               
the current succession of the governor's authority.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  questioned  if  - or  when  -  ASDF  was                                                               
activated into state active duty.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  said ASDF  went  into  state  active duty  after  the                                                               
terrorist  attacks  of  September  11, 2001;  in  the  cities  of                                                               
Savoonga and Gamble to assist  after storms; to assist evacuation                                                               
centers during  wildland fires; during other  support roles after                                                               
disasters.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER asked  whether  the regulatory  authority                                                               
granted  the  adjutant  general  in HB  152  would  have  allowed                                                               
him/her  to implement  the  Alaska Code  of  Military Justice  on                                                               
his/her sole authority.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  stated regulations  can only  be adopted  to implement                                                               
statutes and cannot be enacted  without the statutory basis to do                                                               
so.   House  Bill 126  [passed in  the Twenty-Ninth  Alaska State                                                               
Legislature] followed a statutory change.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER repeated his question.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL remarked:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     You would  have needed  to have  had last  year's House                                                                    
     Bill 126  even if  this legislation [had]  been enacted                                                                    
     because  you needed  the statutory  basis, or  you need                                                                    
     the statutory  power for the, for  the adjutant general                                                                    
     to  take  those actions.    Until  the Alaska  Code  of                                                                    
     Military Justice was enacted  last year there would not                                                                    
     have   been  a   statutory   basis   for  doing   those                                                                    
     regulations.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:24:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  returned attention to ASDF,  pointing out                                                               
a pattern  of efforts to  upgrade its  status:  a  budget request                                                               
for  $210,000 for  battalion command  structures, legislation  to                                                               
extend workers  compensation coverage  when training or  in state                                                               
service,  and provisions  in HB  152  to allow  for payments  for                                                               
training and education.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  acknowledged  DMVA  recognizes  ASDF  as  a  valuable                                                               
component of  the organized militia and  feels the aforementioned                                                               
actions are  essential to developing  ASDF's capability  to serve                                                               
Alaskans when needed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  asked   for  ASDF's  ten-year  personnel                                                               
history.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  recalled in  2005,  there  were around  70-80  active                                                               
members and  today there  are over  80 members  actively drilling                                                               
and training.   In further  response to  Representative Saddler's                                                               
question about whether  there is an active  recruiting effort, he                                                               
said ASDF is recruiting through social media and other routes.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  inquired as  to  whether  ASDF has  been                                                               
called  to active  state service  before the  National Guard  was                                                               
called.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  advised ASDF came  to active duty before  the National                                                               
Guard when running  the disaster assistance centers.   In further                                                               
response to  Representative Saddler,  he added  ASDF ran  some of                                                               
the  evacuation  centers during  the  wildland  fires before  all                                                               
members of  the National Guard  were activated, which  would have                                                               
been three occasions in the last three years.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:28:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  questioned the  need to  provide upgrades                                                               
for ASDF when the National Guard is available.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL expressed DMVA believes  there are needs best filled by                                                               
ASDF;  also, after  recent deployments,  insufficient numbers  of                                                               
National Guard members were in the state.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER further  asked  under what  circumstances                                                               
would the  National Guard  be incapable -  in terms  of training,                                                               
leadership, or equipment - to  accomplish a task which ASDF could                                                               
accomplish.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  advised  there  are  circumstances  when  substantial                                                               
numbers of  certain forces  of the  National Guard  are deployed,                                                               
such  as  communications  detachments.     When  small  specialty                                                               
functions are  deployed, there are no  backup capabilities within                                                               
the National Guard, but there are capable members in ASDF.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  asked whether  HB 152 provides  any limit                                                               
to  the adjutant  general's ability  to order  ASDF members  into                                                               
fulltime duty in the adjutant general's office.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said no, except for fiscal constraints.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER requested  DMVA  attach an  indeterminate                                                               
fiscal  note to  the  bill due  to  the aforementioned  provision                                                               
within  HB   152  which  would  allow   additional  expenses  for                                                               
personnel.   He then asked  for an explanation of  the difference                                                               
between control and command.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  explained  control  is   based  upon  the  right  and                                                               
authority  to  direct subordinates  to  complete  an action.    A                                                               
person in  command is responsible  for shaping an action  and the                                                               
overall effort, and for the outcome of said effort.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER questioned  whether the  adjutant general                                                               
currently has command of the organized militia.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said the adjutant  general has control and the governor                                                               
has command.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER asked  how said absence of  command by the                                                               
adjutant general puts the state in jeopardy.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL explained  not establishing  consistent command  is an                                                               
ongoing degradation  of the effectiveness  of the Alaska  Code of                                                               
Military  Justice.    In  response  to  Representative  Saddler's                                                               
request for further clarification,  he added the adjutant general                                                               
has the power  to implement the Alaska Code  of Military Justice;                                                               
however,  to optimize  its  effectiveness,  [not having  command]                                                               
degrades  his/her overall  efforts to  obtain the  best organized                                                               
militia.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER   cautioned  that  passing   command  and                                                               
control to an unelected official is troublesome.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:35:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD directed attention to  the bill on page 4                                                               
lines [30-31] which read:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
      The adjutant general and assistant adjutants general                                                                      
     are subject to regulations under this chapter and paid                                                                     
     according to state law.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD asked  for  a  description of  assistant                                                               
adjutants general.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said assistant adjutants  general are the commanders of                                                               
the  Alaska  Air National  Guard  and  the Alaska  Army  National                                                               
Guard, Brigadier  General Karen Mainsfield and  Brigadier General                                                               
Joseph Streff.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD stated her opposition to the bill.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
There followed brief clarifying statements.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER directed attention  to the bill summary of                                                               
Section  4 provided  in the  committee packet,  signed by  Deputy                                                               
Commissioner  Doehl, dated  3/22/17, [text  previously provided],                                                               
and  expressed  his  understanding that  the  adjutant  general's                                                               
(TAG's) decisions are already subject to the governor's review.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  said [Section  4] is designed  to address  the concern                                                               
about a  possible improper  delegation of  authority.   Section 4                                                               
clarifies the  governor at any  time is the elected  official and                                                               
thereby is the  ultimate command and authority  over the adjutant                                                               
general; in fact, the proposed  change in statute does not remove                                                               
any authority of the governor.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER agreed  but stated  his concern  that the                                                               
bill  gives  the adjutant  general  command  and control  of  the                                                               
organized   militia  with   the  governor   retaining  only   the                                                               
"slightest legal oversight."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:40:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL pointed  out HB  152 creates  the identical  alignment                                                               
that  is  established  by federal  regulation  between  the  most                                                               
senior generals in the U.S. military and the U.S. President.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER observed if  the [U.S.] commander in chief                                                               
is  unable  to  discharge  his/her duties,  authority  passes  to                                                               
another elected official, the vice president.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  disagreed, and advised the  National Command Authority                                                               
is in  place at the national  level when the president  cannot be                                                               
reached.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  directed attention  to the bill  [on page                                                               
5, lines 23-31, and continuing to page 6, lines 1-2] which read:                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     (b)   The armory of  each battalion, company,  or other                                                                    
     unit is  subject to the  order of the  adjutant general                                                                    
     and under  the charge of  its armory board  which shall                                                                    
     keep  in  the  armory  all property  furnished  by  the                                                                    
     state.   [EXCEPT FOR  SCOUT BATTALIONS  ORGANIZED UNDER                                                                    
     SPECIAL AUTHORITY OF THE SECRETARY  OF THE ARMY, A UNIT                                                                    
     MAY NOT  BE FURNISHED  WITH ARMS  OR EQUIPMENT  UNTIL A                                                                    
     SUITABLE  ARMORY   IS  PROVIDED  FOR   THEIR  DEPOSIT.]                                                                    
     Subject   to  regulations   adopted  by   the  adjutant                                                                    
     general, an armory  may be used for  any reasonable and                                                                    
     legitimate civilian  activity so  long as  the activity                                                                    
     does not interfere with its  use for military purposes.                                                                    
     [PROCEEDS RECEIVED AS RENTAL OR OTHERWISE AT AN ARMORY                                                                     
        FROM NONMILITARY USE 1 SHALL BE DEPOSITED IN THE                                                                        
     GENERAL FUND.]                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  and asked whether the  intent of proposed                                                               
Section  11 is  for  the  adjutant general  to  issue weapons  to                                                               
members of ASDF.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  said the decisions  on what equipment would  be issued                                                               
to  ASDF would  be made  based on  missions and  capabilities; at                                                               
this point there  is no intent to issue weapons.   In response to                                                               
Representative Saddler's  request for clarity, he  restated it is                                                               
not  the  intent  of  the  adjutant  general  to  issue  weapons;                                                               
however, he  said he could not  say what an adjutant  general may                                                               
determine in the future.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER   surmised  HB  152  would   provide  the                                                               
adjutant  general authority  to issue  weapons to  ASDF -  should                                                               
he/she deem it necessary - without further statutory authority.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  advised currently  there  is  no need  for  statutory                                                               
authority should the adjutant general issue weapons.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER restated his  request for an indeterminate                                                               
fiscal note  attached to HB  152 because if the  adjutant general                                                               
can  issue weapons,  the  potential  costs of  the  bill are  not                                                               
realistically reflected [by zero  Fiscal Note Identifier:  HB152-                                                               
MVA-COM-03-10-17].                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  TUCK  questioned  whether  DMVA would  be  able  to  issue                                                               
armories if the costs thereof were not in the budget.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said no.  He  pointed out neither of the aforementioned                                                               
issues are germane to HB 152.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:44:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER asked who wrote the bill.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK  explained the bill  originated from a  combination of                                                               
sources:   The Department of  Law, Representative  Tuck's office,                                                               
and Legislative Legal Services.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER  directed attention  to the bill  on page                                                               
6, lines 4-14, which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     (a)   To the extent  funds are available,  the adjutant                                                                    
     general may authorize the payment  of up to 100 percent                                                                    
     of  the cost  of  tuition and  required  fees for  each                                                                    
     active member of the Alaska  National Guard, the Alaska                                                                    
     State  Defense Force,  or the  Alaska Naval  Militia if                                                                    
     the  member  attends  an  educational,  vocational,  or                                                                    
     technical training school in  this state.  The adjutant                                                                    
     general   may   prioritize  categories   of   education                                                                    
     benefits  to  encourage  recruitment and  retention  of                                                                    
     Alaska National  Guard, Alaska State Defense  Force, or                                                                    
     Alaska  Naval  Militia  members.   Payments  authorized                                                                    
     under  this section  for active  members of  the Alaska                                                                    
     National Guard, the Alaska State  Defense Force, or the                                                                    
     Alaska  Naval Militia  continue so  long as  the active                                                                    
     member   is  a   student  in   good  standing   in  the                                                                    
     educational   program   or   class   and   participates                                                                    
     satisfactorily in unit training activities.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER opined  the aforementioned  section does                                                               
not pertain to his understanding of the purpose of the bill.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK explained  after House Bill 126 was  passed last year,                                                               
it  was  recognized  that  other  related  provisions  of  Alaska                                                               
Statutes needed to be updated.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL further explained  holistic improvements to legislation                                                               
are used  to better achieve the  goals of DMVA and  the organized                                                               
militia.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  RAUSCHER  asked how  the  bill  provides for  the                                                               
transfer of authority back to the governor.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  said there  is no  formal transfer  of power  from the                                                               
governor  to the  adjutant general;  at  the time  communications                                                               
with  the  governor or  the  governor's  successor are  restored,                                                               
power is automatically vested in the higher authority.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK, in  further response, directed attention  to the bill                                                               
on page 1, lines 8-14 and  continuing to page 2, lines 1-7, which                                                               
read [in part]:                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     The  governor's   command  is  exercised   through  the                                                                    
     adjutant general,  who shall carry out  the policies of                                                                    
     the  governor  in  military   affairs.    The  adjutant                                                                    
     general  represents  the  governor  and  shall  act  in                                                                    
     conformity  with  the  governor's  instructions.    The                                                                    
     adjutant general shall exercise  control and command of                                                                    
     the  military department  of the  state.   The adjutant                                                                    
     general shall  adopt regulations  that provide  for the                                                                    
     organization,  administration,  and  equipment  of  the                                                                    
     organized militia that are not  contrary to federal law                                                                    
     or  regulations [HAS  COMMAND  OF  THE ALASKA  NATIONAL                                                                    
     GUARD AND THE  ALASKA NAVAL MILITIA WHILE  THEY ARE NOT                                                                    
     IN  ACTIVE FEDERAL  SERVICE.   THE  GOVERNOR MAY  ADOPT                                                                    
     NECESSARY REGULATIONS  FOR THEM].  The  Alaska National                                                                    
     Guard and  the Alaska  Naval Militia and  their members                                                                    
     are  subject  to  all   federal  laws  and  regulations                                                                    
     relating  to the  National Guard  and Naval  Militia of                                                                    
     the several  states and territories  and of  the United                                                                    
     States.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:49:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX returned discussion to the current                                                                        
authority of the adjutant general to provide guns and artillery.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL restated there is currently no statutory prohibition                                                                  
on issuing guns to ASDF.  He advised issuing artillery would be                                                                 
beyond any duties envisioned of ASDF.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX, noting that the adjutant general can                                                                     
currently issue guns, questioned the rationale for an                                                                           
[indeterminate] fiscal note attached to HB 152.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said the bill would not have a fiscal impact.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:50:26 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER remarked:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     ...  My  reading of  this  bill  says that  Section  11                                                                    
     clearly envisions facilitating  issuance of small arms,                                                                    
     I assume weaponry, to members  of the organized militia                                                                    
     ...  [which]  includes   [the]  National  Guard,  [the]                                                                    
     Alaska  Naval Militia,  and  the  state defense  force.                                                                    
     Currently, the  National Guard already has  weaponry, I                                                                    
     don't know  about the  naval militia,  but I  know that                                                                    
     the  Alaska  State  Defense Force  does  not  now  have                                                                    
     weapons  issued by  the state  whether new  purchase or                                                                    
     surplus gear.   So,  by lowering  the barrier  to align                                                                    
     ASDF to not  have to have an armory,  this bill clearly                                                                    
     envisions issuing weapons.   ... We have  heard ... the                                                                    
     administration has sought to  increase the staffing and                                                                    
     mission  including  the  armed  mission  of  the  quasi                                                                    
     Eskimo scouts in  Western Alaska, we had  a request for                                                                    
     $210,000  to   stand  up  the   headquarters  structure                                                                    
     necessary  for  three  battalions of  about  75  people                                                                    
     each.  So, I think I can  see ahead ... a desire and an                                                                    
     intent to arm these folks.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER continued  to Section  12, which  he said                                                               
authorizes  the  "attorney"  general  to  prioritize  educational                                                               
training,  tuition,  and  fees   for  members  of  the  organized                                                               
militia,  for vocational,  technical, and  educational school  to                                                               
encourage recruitment and retention.   He opined these are powers                                                               
beyond the issue  of the emergency delegation of power  and are a                                                               
significant  policy change  sought to  increase the  size, scope,                                                               
cost,  and risk  of ASDF.   He  said he  was "very  uncomfortable                                                               
about this."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
2:52:43 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SPOHNHOLZ made  a motion to call  for the question                                                               
on HB 152.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK  asked Representative  Spohnholz to  temporarily delay                                                               
her motion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  asked Mr. Doehl whether  he helped write                                                               
the bill.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL said no.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  asked for  a list  of states  that "have                                                               
actually done this type of legislation."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL said  his research  on the  authority of  the adjutant                                                               
general  to  place  [militia] into  state  active  duty  included                                                               
Wisconsin  and  Illinois;  regarding  his  understanding  of  the                                                               
regulatory authority, his research included California.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD restated her request.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL could not provide an "exhaustive list."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD then asked for a few specific states.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  said, "I believe  at least, checking  for consistency,                                                               
Wisconsin,   Illinois,  California   are   consistent  with   the                                                               
approaches we've  delineated here.   Also, on the  emergency call                                                               
of authority for disasters, I believe Texas is."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  returned attention  to the bill  on page                                                               
5, [beginning  on line 31  and continuing  to page 6,  lines 1-2]                                                               
which read [in part]:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     [PROCEEDS RECEIVED AS RENTAL OR OTHERWISE AT AN ARMORY                                                                     
     FROM NONMILITARY USE SHALL BE DEPOSITED IN THE GENERAL                                                                     
     FUND.]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  asked why the aforementioned  text would                                                               
be deleted.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  responded the  [text] would be  deleted because  it is                                                               
inconsistent  with   the  [National  Guard]   Master  Cooperative                                                               
Agreement under which the federal  government pays 50-100 percent                                                               
of  DMVA facilities'  operating  costs.   The agreement  requires                                                               
DMVA to  apply rents received  to reduce operating costs  paid by                                                               
the federal government.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE REINBOLD  questioned whether  DMVA is  planning on                                                               
selling an armory, and if so, where the proceeds would go.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:57:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL   explained  there  are  53   excess  armories;  after                                                               
divesture,  there  is  a  disposal   process.    However,  excess                                                               
armories may be rented, as is referenced in the bill.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD asked  whether proceeds  have previously                                                               
been deposited into  the general fund, and for  an explanation of                                                               
the change brought about by the bill.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  acknowledged previous funds  have gone to  the general                                                               
fund erroneously, which then had  to be reimbursed to the federal                                                               
government;   the  bill   would  comply   with  the   rights  and                                                               
obligations of the Master Cooperative Agreement.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  REINBOLD  surmised  the  funds  from  a  sale  or                                                               
"whatever" would now be given to the federal government.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL said  no;  in  fact, the  bill  does  not address  the                                                               
selling  of armories,  but addresses  the rental  of a  facility.                                                               
Rental proceeds would  be used on a pro rata  basis to reduce the                                                               
federal reimbursement that pays for facility maintenance.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SADDLER  directed attention  to [the bill  on page                                                               
7, lines 1-5] which read:                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     * Sec. 15. AS 26.05.660 is amended to read:                                                                                
          Sec. 26.05.660. Delegation by the governor.  The                                                                      
     governor  may  delegate  any authority  vested  in  the                                                                    
     governor  under  the  code  of  military  justice,  and                                                                    
     provide for the subdelegation  of the authority, except                                                                    
     the powers  given to the  governor by AS  26.05.450 [AS                                                                    
     26.05.170 AND 26.05.450]                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER questioned  why  the  bill maintains  the                                                               
right of the governor to convene general courts-martial.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL  said  that  authority is  retained  by  the  governor                                                               
because of its great significance.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER inquired  as to  whether questions  about                                                               
arming, training, regulations, and  activation for state duty are                                                               
less significant.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DOEHL said  no.   He  clarified  that a  singular  act of  a                                                               
general  court-martial  is   deemed  of  significant  importance;                                                               
however, ongoing  decisions inherent  to command "do  not require                                                               
the   governor's   attention."       In   further   response   to                                                               
Representative Saddler  about the importance of  a general court-                                                               
martial, he said  a general court-martial is the  equivalent of a                                                               
felony  trial and  criminal  court matter  that  could result  in                                                               
incarceration.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SADDLER  repeated  his concerns  and  stated  his                                                               
opposition to the bill.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
3:02:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR TUCK announced that HB 152 was held over.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
3:03:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special Committee  on Military and Veterans'  Affairs meeting was                                                               
adjourned at 3:03 p.m.                                                                                                          

Document Name Date/Time Subjects