Legislature(2019 - 2020)BARNES 124
02/05/2020 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE
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| Audio | Topic |
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| Start | |
| Presentation(s): Regulations Proposed by the Department of Labor & Workforce Development | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
February 5, 2020
3:19 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Ivy Spohnholz, Chair
Representative Louise Stutes
Representative Zack Fields
Representative Sara Hannan
Representative Andi Story
Representative Mel Gillis
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Sara Rasmussen
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
PRESENTATION(S): REGULATIONS PROPOSED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR
& WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT
- HEARD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
No previous action to record
WITNESS REGISTER
GREY MITCHELL, Director
Division of Workers' Compensation
Department of Labor & Workforce Development
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented the Department of Labor &
Workforce Development's proposed regulations and answered
questions from the committee.
JOSEPH KNOWLES, Deputy Director
Division of Labor Standards & Safety
Department of Labor & Workforce Development
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the presentation
on the Department of Labor & Workforce Development's proposed
regulations.
WILLIAM HARLAN, Mechanical Inspection Manager
Division of Labor Standards & Safety
Department of Labor and Workforce Development
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the presentation
on the Department of Labor & Workforce Development's proposed
regulations.
JOHN HAKALA, State Director
Office of Apprenticeship
U.S. Department of Labor
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided a PowerPoint presentation
entitled, "Registered Apprenticeship and Fitness Licensing in
Alaska."
DEBORAH KELLY, Director
Alaska Joint Electrical Apprenticeship and Training Trust
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided a PowerPoint presentation by the
Alaska Joint Electrical Apprenticeship and Training Trust.
AMY NIBERT, President/CEO
Associated Builders and Contractors of Alaska
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the Department of Labor &
Workforce Development's proposed regulations.
TOM FISHER, President
Aaron Plumbing and Heating Company
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on the Department of Labor &
Workforce Development's proposed regulations.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:19:12 PM
CHAIR IVY SPOHNHOLZ called the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:19 p.m. Representatives Fields,
Hannan, Story, Gillis, and Spohnholz were present at the call to
order. Representative Stutes arrived as the meeting was in
progress.
^PRESENTATION(S): Regulations Proposed by the Department of
Labor & Workforce Development
PRESENTATION(S): Regulations Proposed by the Department of Labor
& Workforce Development
3:20:01 PM
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ announced that the only order of business would
be a presentation on regulations proposed by the Department of
Labor & Workforce Development (DLWD).
3:20:18 PM
GREY MITCHELL, Director, Division of Workers' Compensation,
Department of Labor & Workforce Development, noted that he has
worked for the DLWD for 28 years. Within the department, his
work experience extends to the Division of Employment Security,
the Division of Labor Standards and Safety, the Wage and Hour
Office, and the Division of Workers' Compensation.
3:21:44 PM
JOSEPH KNOWLES, Deputy Director, Division of Labor Standards &
Safety, Department of Labor & Workforce Development, introduced
himself and gave a brief description of his work experience,
which includes the Division of Employment Training Services and
the Division of Labor Standards and Safety, DLWD. He is also a
military veteran.
3:22:31 PM
MR. MITCHELL said there has been a lot of confusion and
misinformation about the proposed regulations and he appreciates
the opportunity to provide clarification. He noted that much of
the regulation package includes routine code updates. Many of
the public comments, he said, indicate that people may have some
misconceptions about the goal of the regulations and believe
they aim to eliminate apprenticeship requirements or reduce
workplace safety and health standards - neither of which, he
said, are accurate. Registered apprenticeship will still be
mandatory to qualify for the journeyman, plumber, electrician,
or lineman exam after 8,000 hours of work experience. The
proposal will allow for an alternate pathway for businesses that
don't want to use the registered apprenticeship model and for
individual Alaskans who either can't get into an apprentice
program or aren't interested in that kind of training program.
The alternate pathway will require 12,000 hours of documented
work experience performing work subject to code, before trainees
are qualified to sit for the exam. The proposal does not change
the minimum ratios of journeyman to apprentices that have been
on the books for decades. The proposal also doesn't change
occupational safety and health standards that employers must
comply with to maintain safe and healthy workplaces. He stated
that the department's goal in creating this proposal was simple:
to increase training and employment opportunities for individual
Alaskans and give employers more options to train their future
workforce. He went on to say that federally registered
apprenticeship is extremely competitive, leaving many Alaskans
left out. Furthermore, he argued that some employers don't want
the federal government dictating how to train their workforce.
He offered his belief that an alternate pathway will provide
opportunities for smaller businesses in rural areas to provide
trainees an opportunity to learn the plumbing or electrical
trade. These local trainees are likely to stay and provide
services in that community for years to come. He noted that the
DLWD is not disputing that registered apprenticeship is a great
training tool; however, it's not a good fit for all businesses
or all Alaskans. As a result of the restrictive regulations
that only allow training through federally regulated
apprenticeship, many employers don't participate in workforce
training in these categories, he said. He reported that there
is a growing shortage of trade workers across the country.
According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics and the
National Electrical Contractors Association, 7,000 electricians
join the trade every year while 10,000 retire, leaving a gap in
the numbers.
3:26:28 PM
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ asked for the statistics in Alaska.
MR. MITCHELL said he only has the national numbers.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLS noted that because Alaska's economy tends to be
countercyclical to the rest of the country, it should be
important to have those numbers.
MR. MITCHELL reported that the BLS [U.S. Bureau of Labor
Statistics] projects faster than average job growth for plumbers
and electricians. He said they want to increase opportunities
and empower Alaska businesses with choices for how to best train
their future workers in on-the-job training (OJT). The
department also intended on increasing educational opportunities
for Alaskans to receive real world hands-on electrical and
plumbing training in programs like Alaska Vocational Technical
Center (AVTEC); however, due to the public's comments, they
reevaluated the proposal and reworked sections of it.
3:28:14 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN inquired as to which communities and what
types of businesses expressed interest in an "alternative
pathway" for trainees.
MR. MITCHELL replied he can't give specific details on the
numbers. Anecdotally, he said, there are a lot of businesses
that want to have an internal training program where the federal
government isn't looking over their shoulder while they're
training their workforce.
3:30:29 PM
MR. MITCHELL responding to a follow-up question from
Representative Hannan, said he was referring to the Office of
Apprenticeship and Training, not OSHA [Occupational Safety and
Health Administration], when he mentioned the federal
government. He maintained that any contractor trying to get
electrical or plumbing work done would acknowledge that there is
a shortage.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked if Mr. Mitchell is asserting that
plumbing and electrical contractors have an even greater
shortage than any other trade or licensed profession in Alaska.
MR. MITCHELL said electrical and plumbing are the two categories
of building trades that mandate enrollment in a federally
registered apprenticeship program.
3:33:00 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS recounted working with Mr. Mitchell and
Mr. Knowles, as well as other DLWD staff members. He said he
enjoyed every moment of it and thanked them for the work they
have done. He asked how many apprenticeship specialists
currently work in the department and if they still work at job
centers throughout the state.
3:33:46 PM
MR. KNOWLES offered his belief that the concept being referenced
is still in place.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked for Mr. Knowles' approximation of
the number of employers of state apprenticeship specialists that
have worked with the U.S. Department of Labor to expand
apprenticeship in communities beyond Southcentral [Alaska] in
the recent past.
MR. KNOWLES explained that when he worked there, the job centers
had business connection specialists and independent
apprenticeship specialists to help administer grants for those
who were eligible. He said that by his estimation, the majority
of job centers have those technicians and will work through the
technology and referral process for the centers that don't.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS said the department helped start
apprenticeship programs for many rural community health centers
when he worked there. He noted that he is happy to see that
capacity still exists for construction employers throughout the
state.
3:35:50 PM
MR. MITCHELL turned attention to the proposed regulations. He
sought clarification on whether he should summarize the entire
package or focus on registered apprenticeship.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ instructed him to focus on the part regarding
registered apprenticeship because of its controversy.
MR. MITCHELL explained that there were several sections of the
regulation package that addressed updating various elements of
the codes. For that reason, he said, it was difficult to
ascertain how to classify some of the [public] comments they
received. He alleged that there was confusion in trying to
determine how the comments applied to the regulations.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ interjected and pointed out that there are
numerous comments that are classified as unclear; however, "the
own department's summary of the comments - they seem very clear
to me," she said. She proceeded to read several comments that
were classified as "unclear," adding that she disagrees with
that classification because of its inaccuracy.
3:38:09 PM
MR. MITCHELL responded to the public comment that mentioned
opposition to ending apprenticeship. He said it is classified
as unclear because the regulations don't propose to end
apprenticeship.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ stated that the department is creating a pathway
around apprenticeship that requires little to no documentation
and little to no standards, which sounds like a workaround to
apprenticeship. She reiterated that classifying the comments as
being unclear about their position is a mischaracterization.
MR. MITCHELL resumed his presentation and directed attention to
pages 15-16 of the proposed regulation package [included in the
committee packet]. He said 8 AAC 90.130 [plumber journeyman
certificate of fitness] still requires the applicant to submit
documented proof that he or she obtained 8,000 hours of work
experience in a federally registered apprenticeship. He
emphasized that the department is creating an alternate pathway
- not eliminating apprenticeships - that requires 12,000 hours
of on-the-job work experience that is subject to the applicable
code. He noted that under this alternate pathway, the
applicant would also still need to pass the comprehensive
examination for electricians, plumbers, or lineman to gain
access to his or her certificate of fitness. He further noted
that current regulations are effectively putting Alaskans at a
disadvantage to people coming from other states who qualify to
sit for the [comprehensive] examination after 8,000 hours of on-
the-job training. The proposed regulations would require
nonresidents to have the same 12,000 hours of on-the-job
experience if they didn't gain their experience through a
registered apprenticeship program. He said this would
effectively level the playing field between Alaskans and
residents of the 37 other states that don't require registered
apprenticeship in order to gain training in the electrical or
plumbing industry. He reiterated that the proposal doesn't
change or eliminate federally registered apprenticeships for
plumbers and electricians. On the contrary, he said, it
maintains it for 8,000 hours of work experience. He added that
the proposed regulations do not change any occupational safety
and health standards.
3:44:10 PM
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ asked, on average, how many nonresidents move
here to take the exam with 8,000 hours of experience from
somewhere other than place with a registered apprenticeship
program.
MR. MITCHELL said he does not have the specific numbers, but
it's an open opportunity.
3:44:48 PM
WILLIAM HARLAN, Mechanical Inspection Manager, Division of Labor
Standards & Safety, Department of Labor and Workforce
Development, said statistics are not easily available because
they do not track the sourcing of applicants on a regular basis.
He said that information would require a manual search of
applications through a given time range.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ said she finds it odd to cite something
anecdotally as evidence without the numbers to back it up.
3:45:37 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS offered his understanding that the state
of Washington requires completion of a registered apprenticeship
to take the exam, which is a stronger regulation than in Alaska.
He asked how many states beyond Washington have stronger
regulations than Alaska.
MR. MITCHELL acknowledged that Alaska does not require
completion of the registered apprenticeship program, which could
result in someone getting 8,000 hours of experience without
completing the related course instruction or other elements of
the apprenticeship. As long as the 8,000 hours were gained in a
registered apprenticeship, that alone would qualify that
individual in the state of Alaska.
MR. HARLAN, in response to Representative Fields, offered his
belief that the majority of states that require apprenticeship
require completion of the entire registered apprenticeship
program.
3:47:39 PM
MR. MITCHELL returned to his presentation. Regarding the
plumber journeyman certificate of fitness, the proposed
regulations maintain the current ratio of two trainees to one
journeyman. He noted that the proposed regulations will not
limit a trainee in the alternate pathway from engaging in
accredited classroom training to help them acquire the 12,000
hours of experience. It's intended that the 12,000-hour program
would involve some self-directed classroom training.
MR. MITCHELL turned attention to pages 16-19 of the proposed
regulations, 8 AAC 90.137 [plumber restricted PU certificate of
fitness]. He explained that this section would remove the
examination requirement for a plumber utility (PU) certificate
of fitness. This change was made with input from PU worker
representatives in the labor union who consider the exam an
unnecessary barrier to licensure because it doesn't test
knowledge and code. Mr. Mitchell directed attention to pages
18-19, 8 AAC 90.140 [plumber trainee certificate of fitness].
He noted that this is the restriction that limits Alaskans from
receiving any training in the plumbing trade unless they are
enrolled in a federally recognized registered apprenticeship
program. This section of the proposal also repeals a reference
to the on-the-job training option to document work experience
that existed prior to 2003 and was repealed in 2006.
Furthermore, it removes the requirements that a trainee must
surrender his or her trainee certificate of fitness after
failing to be continuously enrolled in a federally registered
apprenticeship program. Finally, this section would establish a
standard to allow for the department to reciprocate plumbing
certificate of fitness licenses under limited conditions with
another state when the licensure requirements are substantially
similar to Alaska's.
3:52:08 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked how many states have regulations
that are similar to Alaska's.
MR. MITCHELL said the initial research indicates about 13.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked if those 13 states also have
registered apprenticeship programs.
MR. MITCHELL confirmed that.
3:52:43 PM
MR. HARLAN added that because Alaska does not require
apprenticeship completion, it is not included as a qualifying
factor in this state's reciprocal agreements. Regarding
plumbing, as long as a state requires completed hours and an
exam, Alaska would consider exploring reciprocation with those
states.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN stated she would still like to know the
numbers.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ agreed and asked Mr. Mitchell to follow up with
an answer.
MR. MITCHELL invited Mr. Harlan to explain the reciprocal
process.
MR. HARLAN summarized reciprocity and how it works. He said
Alaska is a member of an informal group of states, the National
Electrical Reciprocal Alliance (NERA), with similar
requirements. The group meets annually to ensure all its
members' standards are consistent enough for agreements.
Between those states that find substantial compliance with each
other's licensure requirements, written agreements are drafted
and then undergo a review process through the states' respective
departments of law.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN inquired as to the number of members in
the NERA.
MR. HARLAN answered 17 member states and of those 17, Alaska has
a reciprocal agreement with 11 of them.
3:56:37 PM
MR. MITCHELL directed attention to section 8 AAC 90.160
[electrician journeyman certificate of fitness]. He paraphrased
the following from the document entitled, "2019-2020 Proposed MI
Regulations Explained" [included in the committee packet]:
11. 8 AAC 90.160 Electrician Journeyman Certificate of
Fitness P. 19-21 (repeal/readopt)
? This proposal is almost identical to the changes
that were made to the plumber certificate of fitness
regulation under 8 AAC 90.130.
? The proposal maintains the mandatory requirement for
federally registered apprenticeship in order to
qualify to take the electrician journeyman exam with
8,000 hours of electrical code work experience.
? The proposal establishes an alternate pathway for a
trainee to acquire work experience subject to the
National Electrical Code without being indentured in a
federally recognized apprentice program. After 12,000
hours of documented experience performing work subject
to the National Electrical Code as a licensed trainee
under the supervision of a qualified journeyman
electrician, working for a licensed electrical
contractor under the oversight of a properly licensed
electrical administrator, the trainee would qualify to
take the electrician journeyman exam.
? The proposal puts Alaskans on an equal footing with
trainees working in other states who can obtain
electrical code work experience without being enrolled
in a federally registered apprenticeship program and
currently can use that experience to meet the 8,000
hours of experience necessary to sit for the
electrical journeyman exam.
? The proposal also clarifies that the current
limitation that only up to 2,000 hours of electrical
code work experience doing residential electrical work
would count toward the 12,000 hours of work experience
required to qualify to take the journeyman exam.
? This proposal also contained a clarification that
hours obtained through the proposed educational
trainee certificate of fitness under 8 AAC 90.300
would count toward up to 1,000 hours of the required
experience. However, the department has decided not to
move forward with the educational trainee certificate
of fitness.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ sought clarification on which section the
department would not be advancing.
MR. MITCHELL replied 8 AAC 90.300, which would have allowed
experience gained through a student training program, like
Alaska Vocational Technical Center (AVTEC), to count toward the
1,000 hours of required experience. He reiterated that the
department decided not to move forward with it.
3:59:05 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked if she was missing an amendment to
the proposed regulations.
MR. MITCHELL explained that the department's regulation process
is different than the legislative process. He said there is not
a procedure to provide "on-the-fly" changes. He reiterated that
Commissioner Ledbetter has decided against moving forward with
the aforementioned provision.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN again, sought clarification the part of
the document being referenced.
MR. MITCHELL said on page 20 of the proposed regulation package,
subparagraph (D) would be stricken.
4:00:46 PM
MR. MITCHELL continued his presentation, directing attention to
section 8 AAC 90.162 [power lineman journeyman certificate of
fitness]. He paraphrased the following [original punctuation
provided]:
12. 8 AAC 90.162 Power Lineman Journeyman Certificate
of Fitness P. 21-22 (repeal/readopt)
? This section proposed to eliminate the electrical
lineman exam. However, the department has decided not
to move forward with this element of the proposal. ?
This proposal establishes the same alternate pathway
to obtain outside line electrical code work experience
outside of a federally registered apprenticeship
program.
? The proposal maintains the requirement that a
trainee must be enrolled in a federally registered
apprenticeship program in order to qualify to take the
journeyman exam at 8,000 hours of work experience.
? The proposal establishes an alternate pathway for a
trainee to acquire work experience subject to the
National Electrical Safety Code without being
indentured in a federally recognized apprentice
program. After 12,000 hours of documented experience
performing work subject to the National Electrical
Safety Code as a licensed trainee under the
supervision of a qualified journeyman lineman, working
for a licensed electrical contractor under the
oversight of a properly licensed electrical
administrator, the trainee would qualify to take the
journeyman lineman exam.
? This proposal also intended to allow credit transfer
for hours enrolled in the proposed educational trainee
certificate of fitness program for up to 1,000 hours.
However, the department is not moving ahead with the
educational/student trainee certificate of fitness at
this time.
4:03:59 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN pointed out that in the proposed
regulations there isn't a reference to the exam.
MR. MITCHELL explained that it was deleted in the proposal but
will be added back.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ asked Mr. Mitchell to follow up with an email or
letter for clarity that summarizes which parts of the regulation
package will be advanced and which will be removed. She
indicated that the current document is not clear.
4:04:56 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS suggested that the department consider re-
advertising the updated proposal.
MR. MITCHELL, in response to Chair Spohnholz, said it's awkward
because the regulation package is still being evaluated. He
added that he can speak to what decisions have been made to
date; however, it's still not a final decision, which is up to
the commissioner.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ said even so, it's fair that the legislature
understands what is being proposed. She reemphasized that from
the committee's perspective, it's difficult to follow.
MR. MITCHELL said that was the intention of this presentation -
to provide a basic understanding of what the regulation package
proposes to do. He agreed to follow up with an update
containing changes that have been approved by the commissioner
to date.
4:06:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES said this bill hearing seems to be
premature.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ clarified that this is an informational hearing
on a regulation package that the Department of Labor & Workforce
Development has proposed.
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES maintained that the presentation seems to
be premature and confusing.
4:07:44 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS sought clarification on the 12,000-hour
OJT [on-the-job training] pathway. He asked for confirmation
that, unlike a registered apprenticeship, there won't be a state
or federal department monitoring how many hours were completed
doing different tasks, and whether those hours were completed
under the supervision of a journeyman, as well as what kind of
training standards were in place during those hours. He said he
assumed the state DLWD would not be independently verifying all
of that for the 12,000-hour OJT pathway.
MR. MITCHELL affirmed that, adding that this is not designed to
be the same training mechanism as registered apprenticeship.
It is designed to be a different pathway that allows for
employers to control how they train their future workforce.
Nonetheless, the law does require trainees in the electrical and
plumbing categories to be licensed, supervised by a licensed
journeyman, and work for a licensed electrical contractor that's
overseen by a licensed administrator.
4:09:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN sought clarification on the alternate
pathway's requirement of "documented proof on a notarized form
provided by the department or a notarized statement on
letterhead stationery from an employer" to authenticate the
12,000 hours. She asked if in theory, she could submit a letter
that verifies her 12,000 hours completed at "Joe's Licensed
Electrical" and that would be sufficient.
MR. MITCHELL explained that under current regulations, that is
the correct procedure for someone from a different state. That
individual would provide a sworn affidavit from the employer
that supervised his or her work. Mr. Mitchell added that the
alternate pathway will use that same standard, provided the
required hours will be increased from 8,000 to 12,000 for
Alaskans and out-of-state individuals.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked how long 12,000 hours of supervised
work should take.
MR. MITCHELL replied 12,000 hours of work experience is expected
to take 6-7 years. He said registered apprenticeship is
typically a 4-5-year term and has same documentation
requirements.
REPRESENTATIVE HANNAN asked if the documented verification is
just one piece of paper at the completion of 12,000 hours.
MR. MITCHELL said that is essentially correct for a registered
apprenticeship or otherwise.
4:14:13 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS questioned whether the 12,000-hour OJT
pathway was requested by a business.
MR. MITCHELL said no.
4:14:25 PM
MR. MITCHELL resumed his presentation at section 8 AAC 90.165
[electrician and power lineman trainee certificate of fitness].
He paraphrased the following [original punctuation provided]:
13. 8 AAC 90.165 Electrician and Power Lineman Trainee
Cert. of Fitness P 23- (repeal/readopt)
? This proposal removes the restriction that currently
limits Alaskans from receiving ANY training in the
electrical trade unless they are enrolled in a
federally controlled registered apprenticeship
program.
? It also repeals a reference to the on-the-job
training option to document work experience subject to
the code outside of federally registered
apprenticeship that existed prior to 2003.
? This proposal removed language that allows
1. a journeyman power lineman to work as a
trainee performing work subject to the National
Electrical Code;
2. A journeyman residential wireman to work as a
trainee performing work subject to the National
Electrical Safety Code or the National Electrical
Code beyond the scope of residential work; and
3. A journeyman electrician to work as a trainee
performing work subject to the National
Electrical Safety Code.
These provisions were removed to clarify that a person
should be engaged in a training program whether as a
registered apprentice or through an on-the-job
training program to work as a trainee in another area
of the code. It's designed to expand training
opportunities rather than using licensed journeymen in
other license categories to perform the work of the
trainee.
? This proposal also removes the requirement that a
trainee must surrender their trainee certificate of
fitness if they fail to be continuously enrolled in a
federally registered apprenticeship program.
14. 8 AAC 90.300 Student Trainee Certificate of
Fitness P. 24-25 (new subsection)
The Department is not moving forward with this
proposal. It was designed to allow an educational
program like AVTEC to have students perform some real-
world training under the supervision of a licensed
journeyman. The proposed 10:1 ratio of trainees to
instructors was very controversial and the department
plans to get additional input through the Alaska
Workforce Investment Board before taking further
action on this proposal.
15. 8 AAC 90.900 Definitions P. 26-27 (repeal/readopt)
? This proposal updates the name of the Office of
Apprenticeship and Training. It hasn't been the Bureau
of Apprenticeship and Training for years.
? This proposal establishes a definition of
"electrical wiring" (paragraph 10) to clarify that
certain work activities do not require an electrical
certificate of fitness license, such as operating tree
trimming equipment, flying a helicopter or operating
heavy power equipment. This is current policy based on
long-standing guidance from the Attorney General's
Office.
? This proposal establishes a definition of "plumbing"
(paragraph 16) to clarify that certain work activities
do not require a plumbing certificate of fitness
license, such as operating heavy power equipment.
4:19:28 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS urged the department to re-advertise for
public comment with the regulations they intend to go forward
with. He sought clarification on the department's reference to
AWIB [Alaska Workforce Investment Board]; specifically, how they
envision working with AWIB and how they would ensure that the
stakeholders are being adequately consulted on the updated
version of the regulations.
MR. MITCHELL said that is to be determined, adding that the
commissioner is contemplating how to involve AWIB. He pointed
out that there are a variety of interests represented on that
board and they take the lead on workforce training initiatives.
He surmised that the goal of that interaction would be to
improve the proposal that would allow for people to be trained
as students in electrical and plumbing work and establish better
standards for that.
4:21:20 PM
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ inquired as to the kind of community engagement
that was involved in the development of this [regulation]
package.
MR. MITCHELL said they had a variety of different conversations
with contractors and groups. He noted that they did not have a
stakeholder meeting. Many of these adjustments, he said, were
things that staff had heard from the public over a number of
years. He addressed the 350-plus public comments they received
from December 4, 2019, through January 13, 2020, which he said
are still being considered.
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ opined that involving stakeholders on the front
end of developing an idea prevents problems on the backend.
4:23:32 PM
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES asked if she had heard correctly that the
stakeholders were not involved.
MR. MITCHELL clarified that he said there was no stakeholder
meeting. He alleged that they did have conversations with
various stakeholders regarding the proposed regulations.
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES said it seems inconceivable that there was
no stakeholder meeting as they are the user group. She
continued by reiterating her surprise that they failed to
include one of the most important groups in forming these
regulations.
MR. MITCHELL stated that there is not a mandate requiring a
stakeholder meeting for every regulation package. He noted that
the current administration has reevaluated and revived a 2013
administrative order to guarantee that moving forward, those
kinds of meetings will happen. He pointed out that there were
numerous proposals over the past years that had zero stakeholder
meetings. He maintained that the department had routine
discussions with groups that were involved with the proposal
because the department recognized there would be concerns about
this alternate pathway.
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES suggested that the outcome would have been
more successful had they consulted with the user group.
4:26:47 PM
JOHN HAKALA, State Director, Office of Apprenticeship, U.S.
Department of Labor, provided a PowerPoint presentation
entitled, "Registered Apprenticeship and Fitness Licensing in
Alaska." Mr. Hakala stated that his presentation will show that
the registered apprenticeship system produces highly skilled and
qualified license holders in Alaska with significant economic
and social benefits. He went on to say that the proposed
12,000-hour pathway to licensure is not a training program and
does not level the playing field. Registered apprenticeship is
available to any properly licensed contractor; in fact, the
majority of program sponsors in Alaska are single employer
programs with fewer than five apprentices. He said the U.S.
Office of Apprenticeship works closely with mechanical
inspection staff and program sponsors to verify apprenticeship
registrations and work hours. To make it simple and manageable
for everyone, he suggested requiring the 12,000 hours of
documented work experience for out-of-state individuals who want
to apply for an Alaska license if they have not completed a
state or federally registered apprenticeship program. He
pointed out that his office has requested two changes that have
been repeatedly labeled as "too controversial." First, to
require the completion of a registered apprenticeship program.
And second, to change the 2:1 licensing ratio to the 1:1
apprenticeship to journeyman ratio, which is the only ratio that
the U.S. Office of Apprenticeship can approve for the
construction occupations. He read the following on slide 2,
titled "Registered Apprenticeship":
? Registered apprenticeship is based on structured
training standards that include supervised on-the-job
learning (OJL).
? Apprentices are paid employees and must complete
related technical instruction courses that supplement
the OJL process.
? Wage advancements are based on successful
performance on-the-job and with their related
instruction progress.
Registered apprenticeship is a proven workforce
development strategy that supports local economies,
builds worker skills, and establishes career pathways
to higher levels of employment and wages.
MR. HAKALA continued with slide 3, titled "Registered
Apprenticeship in Alaska," and read:
? Registered apprenticeships in the construction
trades have been active in Alaska since the 1940's.
? Registered apprenticeships in Alaska currently train
union and non-union apprentices in 13 industries, 73
occupations, and in 21 borough/census areas.
? Hundreds of millions of private dollars have been
invested in apprentices and apprenticeship training
centers across the state.
? 879 Alaskan construction employers participate in
the registered apprenticeship system.
4:30:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked how an apprenticeship based in
Anchorage also operates and employs local people in rural areas.
MR. HAKALA said Representative Fields is referring to the
"multi-employer structures," which have some efficiencies in
them. Multi-employer structures recruit, hire, and train
apprentices from throughout the state, including rural Alaska,
through active recruitment.
MR. HAKALA directed attention to slide 4, titled "Registered
Apprenticeship Outcomes," and read the following [original
punctuation provided]:
Benefits for Job Seekers
Earn and learn
? Career pathways to higher skills and wages
? Nationally-recognized credentials and potential to
earn college credit
Benefits for Employers
? Develop highly-skilled workers through a flexible,
customized training approach
? Reduce turnover, increase productivity, and improve
the bottom line
? Transfer of knowledge, skills and expertise,
improved quality of services & client care, develops
future leadership
? Standards of Apprenticeship: 1-2 week turnaround
from completed application to program registration for
single-employer programs
MR. HAKALA turned to slide 5, titled "Registered Apprenticeship
Outcomes," and read the following:
Economic and Social Benefits for Alaska
Aligns with and advances the goals of key workforce
system initiatives
Stabilizes the Alaskan Economy
? Learn and train locally
? Increase supply of highly skilled Alaskans
? Reduce recruitment of out of state workers
? Career and business opportunities
? Apprentices who complete their program earn
approximately $300,000 more over their career than
non-apprenticeship workers.
? Employed apprentices raise families, and purchase
goods, services, vehicles, and homes in Alaska
? Future business leaders
MR. HAKALA continued with slide 6, titled "Alaska Apprenticeship
Programs," and read the following:
? Total Active Program Sponsors (all occupations) =
329
? Construction Program Sponsors = 206 (63% of all
occupations)
? Electrical Program Sponsors = 103 (50% of
construction sponsors)
? Plumber Program Sponsors = 88 (43% of construction
sponsors)
? Total Construction Employers Participating = 879
MR. HAKALA directed attention to slide 7, titled "Alaska
Apprentices," and read the following:
? Total Active Apprentices (all occupations) = 1978
? Active Construction Apprentices = 1672 (84% of all
active apprentices)
? Electrical Apprentices = 828 (49% of construction
apprentices)
? Plumber/Pipefitter Apprentices = 341 (20% of
construction apprentices)
Apprenticeship Completions: October 2003 to February
4, 2020
? Plumber/Pipefitter = 526
? Electrical = 1200
MR. HAKALA noted that completing an apprenticeship is a
significant life (indisc.) event. Regarding wages, the proposed
12,000-hour pathway finishes last.
4:37:40 PM
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ asked Mr. Hakala to repeat his last statement.
MR. HAKALA restated that with Alaska's 1,726 apprenticeship
completions from October 2003 through February 2020, those
workers have the potential to earn $517,800,000 more over their
career than non-apprenticeship workers. He restated that the
12,000-hour pathway finishes last in terms of wages.
MR. HAKALA resumed his presentation with a chart on slides 8-9,
titled "Comparison of 8,000 Hour Apprenticeship to 12,000 Hour
On-The-Job Training (OJT) License."
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ thanked Mr. Hakala for the side-by-side
comparison, adding that the structured training, technical
requirements, and the safety elements are all key strengths of
the apprenticeship programs.
4:42:34 PM
DEBORAH KELLY, Statewide Director, Alaska Joint Electrical
Apprenticeship and Training Trust (AJEATT), provided a
PowerPoint presentation by the Alaska Joint Electrical
Apprenticeship and Training Trust. Ms. Kelly informed the
committee that she completed an apprenticeship through the
NECA/IBEW program and became a journeyman lineman, after which
she worked as a safety professional for (indisc.) contractor and
was also the Division of Labor Standards and Safety director
under Governor Walker. She proceeded with the presentation,
directing attention to slide 2, titled "What we do," and read
the following:
Apprenticeships:
? Wireman (8,000 OJT Hours)
? Telecommunications (8,000 OJT Hours)
? Power Lineman (8,000 OJT Hours)
? Tree Trimmer (4,000 OJT Hours)
Two training facilities: Anchorage and Fairbanks
325 apprentices statewide
Alternating paid on-the-job training with classroom
experience
43 currently in rural communities
4:45:21 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
4:45:24 PM
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ asked Ms. Kelly to continue.
4:46:36 PM
MS. KELLY resumed her presentation. She highlighted slides 3-5,
which exhibited a curriculum schedule and OJT assignment
categories that would typically be completed during a wireman
apprenticeship. Ms. Kelly turned attention to slide 6, titled
"Certificate of Fitness - AS 18.62," and paraphrased the
following:
Plumbing and Electrical Licenses"
Public safety statutes
Exist because improper plumbing and electrical work
causes injury/death
Ensures that workers are competent and qualified
Works alongside Electrical and Mechanical
Administrators' statutes and state/local inspections
to protect public safety
MS. KELLY explained, "why it matters" on slide 7. She said home
electrical fires account for an estimated 51,000 fires each
year, nearly 500 deaths, more than 1,400 injuries, and $1.3
billion in property damage. Furthermore, each year, more than
400 Americans die from unintentional CO poisoning not linked to
fires, more than 20,000 visit the emergency room, and more than
4,000 are hospitalized. She continued with slide 8, titled "Why
the department's proposal matters," and read the following:
The proposal results in no training standard - period
This proposal will allow 2 low-wage trainees to each
journey-level worker
? Registered apprenticeships are allowed a maximum of
1 apprentice to each journey-level worker
The proposal would allow cheap out of state labor
used in place of Alaskans
MS. KELLY added that the department's proposal would be
unthinkable for other skilled professions that are relied on for
safety, like nurses, pilots, firefighters, or EMTs. She offered
her belief that the proposed regulations demonstrate the
societal bias against blue-collar trades - that blue-collar
trades' education is less-than or inferior because it's not
associated with a college degree. She reiterated that people
rely on this work to be safe, which is why the certificates of
fitness, along with the required training and experience is
important. She highlighted another problem with the
department's proposal, saying that it provides a bidding
advantage for those who choose not to go the apprenticeship
path. They can use two low-wage trainees for each journeyman,
whereas registered apprenticeship participants can only use one
low-wage apprentice to each journeyman. Along with the fact
that trainees have no step wage increase, while apprentices
must, that's going to erode the number of apprentices in Alaska.
4:52:50 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked which contractors invest in AJEATT's
electrical training program.
MS. KELLY said there are over 50 contractors employing
apprentices at this time, including Alcan Electric &
Engineering; various public utilities and cooperative utilities;
and Haakenson Electric.
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS pointed out that 50 contractors is a lot.
He said it disturbs him that these contractors that have
invested for generations would be inadvertently undermined by
this change.
4:53:49 PM
MS. KELLEY said additionally, by expanding this alternative
pathway to 12,000 hours it will create more of a class system
where people work for years trying to get experience in a
seasonal and project-based trade. She added that they are
meaningless hours, as there is no guarantee of training or
relevant experience. Furthermore, said it turns trainee
certificates into a ransom-to-work because there's no
requirement associated with them. Overall, she said, the
department's proposal will hurt apprenticeships, result in
unqualified workers being classified as journeyman, and bring in
more out-of-state workers instead of developing Alaska's
workforce. She continued by saying that throughout this whole
process it appears that the department doesn't understand the
effects of their own proposal because they didn't talk to
stakeholders or do their homework and are now pushing a proposal
with no supporters on the record.
MS. KELLY directed attention back to slides 10-13 and
paraphrased the following:
?Department proposed to allow 10 student trainees to
each journey-level worker on the job site
?Department proposed to eliminate testing for linemen
and plumber PU licenses
? Department statements: "individual would be required
to pass the same extensive four-hour exam in order to
obtain a journeyman certificate of fitness license."
?Apprenticeship requirement began in 2003, not 2006
?Department uses 3 electrical industry fatalities to
justify its position that safety will not be affected
?Department states there were no electrical industry
fatalities in 10 years prior to 2006
MS. KELLY addressed the public comment period on the proposed
regulations by displaying excerpts of comments that the
department classified as unclear on slide 14. She said there is
no way to read them in good faith and describe them as unclear
in their intent. She noted that this was not just one campaign
by one interest group. On the contrary, the respondents were a
diverse group that included mechanical contractors, electrical
contractors, independent safety consultants, the governor
appointed Alaska Safety Advisory Council, the Associated
Builders and Contractors, Alaska Power Association, the City and
Borough of Juneau building inspectors, 4 different unions, 15
representatives, 9 senators, and hundreds of Alaskans. She
reiterated that this diverse group of people spoke with a
unanimous message that said, "please stop these apprenticeship
changes." Ms. Kelly then turned attention to slides 15-17 to
discuss the department's proposed definition of electrical
wiring, which is another example that "the department hasn't
done their homework," she said. To conclude, she asked that the
DLWD come back to the stakeholders with real engagement and talk
to the industries that understand the safety issues inherent to
this kind of work.
5:03:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked why it matters to have mentorship on
the job versus 12,000 hours of work experience where there may
or may not be mentorship and oversite by a qualified
[journeyman].
MS. KELLY explained that mentorship is important because it
creates workers who are knowledgeable, qualified, and committed
to continuing that investment in the trade.
5:05:47 PM
AMY NIBERT, President/CEO, Associated Builders and Contractors
of Alaska, informed the committee that Associated Builders and
Contractors (ABC) is a national construction trade association
with the philosophy that contracts should be awarded to the most
responsive bidder based on safety, quality, and price, whether
workers choose to be union or nonunion. She said the Alaska
chapter has been in operation since 1988 with an apprenticeship
program available since 1999. ABC has over 120 member owners,
contractors, suppliers, and associates statewide that range from
big corporations to small family businesses. Of these member
companies, over 70 participate in the apprenticeship program.
She reported that ABC has no reason to believe the department is
trying to undermine general safety or create an untrained
licensed workforce with the proposed regulations; nonetheless,
she expressed concern of that becoming the result. ABC
generally supports OJT - although for electrical and plumbing,
it's important to assure comprehensive training for all trades
for safety purposes. She offered her belief that with the right
oversite and control, the regulations could get to a place where
ABC is comfortable with any OJT that would provide comprehensive
training; however, no one was consulted. She stated that there
was no dialogue, no conversation, not even a phone call.
Furthermore, the regulations provide no assurances or
protections to ensure the training is bonafide and not merely a
mechanism to hire without the intention of people completing the
12,000 hours. She said ABC believes the regulations should be
withdrawn and the department should engage stakeholders to
resolve the problems. Finally, she reiterated that if the
department would have engaged stakeholders, ABC would have
likely found an agreement to most of the proposed regulations.
She requested that the department engage in a conversation with
ABC that identifies the problems and work together to identify
solutions.
5:08:48 PM
REPRESENTATIVE FIELDS asked how ABC supports its member
companies with on-the-job learning as part of the apprenticeship
program, which would not necessarily be included in the
alternate pathway proposed by the department.
MS. NIBERT said ABC of Alaska is a correspondence training
program. She summarized the apprenticeship application process
and training program, noting that the apprentices are required
to report and test back to ABC on a monthly basis throughout the
four to five-year process of becoming a journeyman.
5:10:15 PM
TOM FISHER, President, Aaron Plumbing and Heating Company,
stated that he has spent 42 years in the plumbing mechanical
industry and is a 4-year member of the United Association of
Plumbers and Pipefitters local 375 in Fairbanks. He highlighted
his qualifications, which included a masters plumber license, a
mechanical administrators license, and a general contractors
license, as well as a BS in mechanical engineering. He conveyed
his disbelief after reading the proposed regulations. He said
the 12,000-hour pathway seems like a workaround to the
apprenticeship program that would provide the state with an
undertrained and under-skilled workforce. He pointed out
another red flag in the documentation requirement of the 12,000-
hour pathway to journeyman in the plumbing and electrical trade
due to the potential risk involved in those specific trades. He
reiterated his disbelief and said he could not identify any kind
of training standard in the proposed regulations. He urged
committee members not to approve the proposed changes.
5:14:11 PM
CHAIR SPOHNHOLZ clarified that members do not have the authority
to approve or reject the proposed regulations.
5:15:07 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
5:15 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| Proposed Regulations from DLWFD Dec 2019.pdf |
HL&C 2/5/2020 3:15:00 PM |
Proposed MI regulations |
| Hakala USDOL Apprenticeship Licensing Final.pdf |
HL&C 2/5/2020 3:15:00 PM |
Proposed MI regulations |
| MI Regulations Questions and Answer document.pdf |
HL&C 2/5/2020 3:15:00 PM |
Proposed MI regulations |
| 2019-2020 Proposed MI Regulations Explained (H L&C 2-5-20).pdf |
HL&C 2/5/2020 3:15:00 PM |
Proposed MI regulations |
| Kelly Regulation Presentation to H L&C Feb 5 2020.pdf |
HL&C 2/5/2020 3:15:00 PM |
Proposed DLWFD Regulations |