01/31/2005 03:15 PM House LABOR & COMMERCE
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB61 | |
| HB35 | |
| HB15 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 35 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 61 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| = | HB 15 | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
January 31, 2005
3:20 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Tom Anderson, Chair
Representative Pete Kott
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux
Representative Bob Lynn
Representative Norman Rokeberg
Representative Harry Crawford
Representative David Guttenberg
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Representative Vic Kohring
Representative Kevin Meyer
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 61
"An Act relating to licensing for a Calcutta pool as a game of
chance."
- HEARD AND HELD
HOUSE BILL NO. 35
"An Act extending the termination date of the State Board of
Registration for Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED HB 35 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 15
"An Act relating to seasonal alcoholic beverage licenses; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 15(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 35
SHORT TITLE: EXTEND BD ARCHITECTS/ENGINEERS/SURVEYORS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOHRING
01/10/05 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/04
01/10/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/10/05 (H) L&C, FIN
01/26/05 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
01/26/05 (H) Scheduled But Not Heard
01/31/05 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 61
SHORT TITLE: CHARITABLE GAMING; CALCUTTA POOLS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MCGUIRE
01/10/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/10/05 (H) L&C, FIN
01/31/05 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
BILL: HB 15
SHORT TITLE: SEASONAL HUNT/FISH LODGE LIQUOR LICENSE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MEYER
01/10/05 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 12/30/04
01/10/05 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/10/05 (H) L&C, FIN
01/24/05 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
01/24/05 (H) Heard & Held
01/24/05 (H) MINUTE(L&C)
01/31/05 (H) L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17
WITNESS REGISTER
SHALON SZYMANSKI, Staff
to Representative Lesil McGuire
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 61 on behalf of the sponsor,
Representative Lesil McGuire
LARRY MEYERS, Deputy Director
Tax Division
Alaska Department of Revenue
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions concerning HB 61.
VICKI OTTE, Executive Director
Association of ANCSA Regional Corporation Presidents and CEOs
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 61.
JEFF BARNHART, Head Professional
Palmer Golf Course
Palmer, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 61.
SHARON MCCONNELL-GILLIS, Executive Director
Doyon Foundation
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 61.
STAN HARRINGTON
Anchor Point Chamber of Commerce;
South Kenai Peninsula Sportmen Association
Anchor Point, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 61.
AMY FREEDEN, Senior Controller
Shared Services Department
Cook Inlet Tribal Council
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 61.
PAT DAVIDSON, Legislative Auditor
Alaska Division of Legislative Audit
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 35.
SAM KITO III
Alaska Profession Design Council
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in favor of HB 35.
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI, Staff
to Representative Kevin Meyer
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 15 on behalf of the sponsor,
Representative Kevin Meyer.
BOB KLEIN, Chairman
Government Affairs Committee
Cabaret Hotel Restaurant and Retailers Association;
Operations Manager, Brown Jug
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Version I of HB 15.
DOUG GRIFFIN, Director
Alcoholic Beverage Control Board
Fairbanks, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Version I of HB 15.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR TOM ANDERSON called the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee meeting to order at 3:20:35 PM. Representatives
Anderson, Guttenberg, Kott, LeDoux, and Lynn were present at the
call to order. Representatives Rokeberg and Crawford arrived as
the meeting was in progress.
HB 61-CHARITABLE GAMING; CALCUTTA POOLS
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 61, "An Act relating to licensing for a
Calcutta pool as a game of chance."
SHALON SZYMANSKI, Staff to Representative Lesil McGuire, Alaska
State Legislature, testified on behalf of Representative
McGuire, sponsor of HB 61. She pointed out that under current
state law there is a very narrow and specific list of allowable
games of chance and skill for charitable purposes. She related
that HB 61 would add Calcutta pools to this list as an allowable
charitable gaming event in Alaska. She stated that Calcutta
pools have been held in the past and have been shown to be a
very effective way to raise money for charities across the
state. She said:
The way that a Calcutta pool is ran is that prior to a
golf or pool tournament, teams are auctioned off.
People then bid on the team that they think will win.
All the money that is raised is then put into a pot.
The person who is the high bidder on the winning team
gets a predetermined percentage of that pot. The
remaining money goes to the organization who holds the
event and the charity. ... Calcutta pools certainly
present no more harm than other charitable giving
events such as rat races or classics that are
currently legal under state law.
LARRY MEYERS, Deputy Director, Tax Division, Alaska Department
of Revenue, pointed out that Calcutta pools are currently
considered gambling, which is illegal in Alaska. He commented
that the current version of the bill is very broad and doesn't
limit the types of gaming. In order to make the pools more
reasonable for the department to administer, he asked that the
legislature make the bill more restrictive.
CHAIR ANDERSON, referring to a previous conversation between
Chair Anderson and Mr. Meyer, he said, "I think you wanted the
30 percent 'take-out' by the permitted conducting the event to
be distributed to the charities."
MR. MEYER agreed.
CHAIR ANDERSON moved to adopt CSHB61, Version 24-LS0281\G as the
working document. There being no objection, Version G was
before the committee.
MS. SZYMANSKI, is response to Representative Guttenberg,
explained that, for Version G, the term "Calcutta pool" was
removed from Section 3, page 2, line 11 of HB 61.
VICKI OTTE, Executive Director, Association of ANCSA Regional
Corporation Presidents and CEOs, stated that she was testifying
in favor of HB 61 as an avid golfer and as a board member of
several nonprofits in Alaska that have benefited from golf
tournaments. She remarked:
In this day and age, raising money for nonprofits that
benefit people in need is very difficult. ... There is
a group of people in the state, however, that love to
golf and play in golf tournaments, and they also like
to give money to charities. At any golf course on any
given day there is at least one tournament. People
play in these tournaments, of course, to have fun, but
they also do so in order to support those agencies
that provide necessary benefits to people that need
help. ... There was one premier golf classic that was
ceased in 2001. Up until that time that special event
rained over $800,000 that was given to charities
throughout the state. ... People and organizations
like to give money to charities, ... but they also
like to have fun doing it. Golf as a sport is
becoming more and more popular in this state.
Calcutta's are a time-honored method of charitable
fundraising, uniquely suited to golfing events. They
raise substantial amounts of money ... and present no
[more] harm to the public than other charitable
activities, including pull-tabs, rat races, and other
classics, which are already legal under state law. I
speak in support of HB 61 and urge that you consider
passing this bill.
CHAIR ANDERSON asked Ms. Otte is she could explain exactly how a
Calcutta pool for a golf tournament would work.
MS. OTTE replied:
The Calcutta is held before the golfing event, where
the teams are auctioned off for a certain dollar
amount. In this particular event, 50 percent of the
proceeds went to the nonprofit organization and 50
percent was paid back to the golfers or the purchasers
of those teams; you purchase a team of four. And
they're broken down by percentage so there might be
... 144 players, I can't remember how many teams that
is, but they might pick ... the top 20 teams and break
down the proceeds that would go back to those
particular teams.
JEFF BARNHART, Head Professional, Palmer Golf Course, stated
that he was formerly the assistant manager of the Moose Run Golf
Course in Anchorage, and was the past president of the Alaska
Sled dog and Racing Association in Anchorage. He commented,
"Calcutta's were a part of the dog racing and the heritage of
the Last Frontier ... as much as they were a fundraising effort
for golf tournaments." He remarked that he has been a part of
fundraising efforts in the golfing business in Alaska for 20
years.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if donated prizes are sometimes
awarded for the team placement rather than the cash, which is
basically a take in a part of the charity.
MR. BARNHART replied affirmatively and said that [donating
prizes] is one way of donating money through the trade of a
service or a product.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if "mandating a certain amount of
take would cause any administrative difficulties".
3:33:46 PM
MR. BARNHART responded:
I believe it would be to the benefit of both the ...
facility hosting the event and the charitable
organization to do it. It certainly would be a lot
better than any of these ... backdoor operations that
go on throughout the state, and it would be our
pleasure and probably to the benefit of every ...
activity to be able to administer that, whether it had
limits or not, and that's probably to the benefit of
... both the state and all activities to have some
limits, and requirements and have it administered to
some degree. It certainly would be something that we
would look forward to doing because it is such a
super-effort. ... Eighty percent of the tournaments at
any of our facilities in the state are for fundraising
efforts. And a lot of those events ... looking for
better methods of adding to the fundraising efforts.
MR. BARNHART, in response to Representative Rokeberg, remarked
that there are historical accounts of Calcutta pools where the
proceeds did not go to charity. However, he said, "Most of
those Calcuttas have been done away with since the laws have
changed here in the last few years, and I think this legislation
would bring that ... complete turn, and we would look forward to
raising additional funds."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG commented:
There is a tradition in the game of golf. It is most
certainly the game played by gentlemen and gentle
ladies, and has ... protocol, etiquette and the rules
are very, very important. But one aspect of the game
is the fact that, in order to develop a little
internal competition, is there is some de minumus
wagering that goes on ... If we continue to ... try to
legislate every particular activity, I'm worried about
it intruding on the privacy of people that ... engage
in a little private wager here and about. I just want
to go on record saying that ... I hope it's not the
case that that we have the Department of Revenue
sneaking around on the first tee of the golf courses.
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG pointed out that Calcutta pools are
[well-defined in the bill], and he asked Mr. Barnhart if he
foresaw the Calcutta pools being expanded out to events like
bowling or basketball tournaments.
MR. BARNHART answered that Calcutta pools "could go just about
anywhere you wanted them to go." As an example, he referred to
the Fur Rendezvous World Championship Dogsled Race, which
historically had a Calcutta pool.
3:38:33 PM
MR. BARNHART stated that, the way a Calcutta pool is set up, "it
could fit anything that had some ... level of competitiveness,
or competitive game, where there's multiple participants." In
comparing dog-sledding and golf, he said that there are many
things within both of these activities that regulate a level
playing field for all competitors, and "helps a potential ...
auctioning person to evaluate what level they want to
participate."
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG asked if Calcutta pools could be
expanded to the Great Alaska Shootout.
MR. BARNHART replied, "There is no reason why is could not. But
... it's a much better fundraiser when there's more participants
than the 12 or the 16 ... because ... now you're only ...
auctioning off 10 items instead of potentially 35 or 40 items."
CHAIR ANDERSON commented that the bill's sponsor only added pool
and golf because that's traditionally where the Calcutta games
are usually played, but "I'm sure you could expand it out to
quite a few, and I think it's good to put that on the record."
He noted that Montana, North Dakota, and Wyoming already permit
Calcutta pool "as long as it's charitably-gamed with a
percentage given to charities and to the state."
3:41:05 PM
JEFF BARNHART remarked, "One of the most high-profile things
that the state offers ... is the Iditarod, and the Iditarod
would be a perfect match for this situation also."
SHARON MCCONNELL-GILLIS, Executive Director, Doyon Foundation,
stated that the Doyon Foundation is a 501c3 private foundation
established in 1989 by Doyon, Limited, the regional native
corporation for Interior Alaska. She said:
[The foundation's] mission is to promote self-
reliance, and the economic and social well-being of
Doyon shareholders and descendants, and to strengthen
our native culture and heritage through education. To
accomplish this mission, [the foundation provides]
scholarships for higher education to over 300 students
each year that total about $350,000. To award this
amount, the foundation relies on a yearly contribution
from [the] parent company, Doyon, Limited, and also
revenue received from corporate and individual donors.
Tuition and living costs are quite high and the amount
that is awarded does not nearly fund the students'
needs. Doyon Foundation does have a State of Alaska
gaming permit that allows us to hold raffles and this
had proven very beneficial to raise needed funds for
our scholarship program. However if Calcutta's were
legal the amount raised could ... be substantially
more, which in turn would mean more scholarship
dollars that we could provide. So therefore Doyon
Foundation is in support of [HB 61].
CHAIR ANDERSON asked, "If we don't pass [HB 61], doesn't it
create a problem in the converse, which is now potentially it's
perceived as illegal gaming, and all the folks that do this for
charities may have a problem doing the activities in the future?
... Isn't the legislation really critical?"
MS. MCCONNELL-GILLIS agreed that Calcutta's are very critical
and that they benefit nonprofits a lot.
STAN HARRINGTON, Anchor Point Chamber of Commerce, stated that
he also represents the South Kenai Peninsula Sportsman
Association. He explained that the term "Calcutta" was
originally from India, and used for fundraising activities in
polo tournaments. Since then it's been adopted to several other
methods of fundraising for both nonprofit and for-profit
organizations in the United States. He remarked that his father
was the world champion Calcutta auctioneer in Colorado. In
Anchor Point, he said:
We've been sponsoring a Calcutta tournament since
1994, and this is a king salmon tournament. ...
Typically we will have anywhere from 25 to 40 boats
enter the tournament. This is the sole fundraising
activity for the South Peninsula Sportsmen
Association. They receive 25 percent of the proceeds;
75 percent of the proceeds then go back out to the
fishermen and the boats. And how the auction is
conducted is, the night prior to the tournament, we
have a banquet, and I'll do the auction at that
banquet and all the boats have to preregister. And at
that time I'll auction each of the boats off; betters
will bid on a boat that they feel is going to win the
tournament. ... The next day when fishing starts, ...
it's a one-fish-wins-all; whoever brings in the
largest king salmon wins 50 percent of the pot.
Whoever bid on the high boat gets 25 percent, and the
South Peninsula Sportsmen Association gets the
remaining 25 percent, which they utilize for a variety
of youth programs, hunting safety classes ... in the
Anchor Point and Homer area. I'd like to see the
Calcutta reinstated. ... It's essential for nonprofit
organizations in this day and age to have some method
to raise funds, especially when you're small
communities ... unincorporated communities that have
no other way of raising funds.
CHAIR ANDERSON commented, "Mr. Harrington brings up a point
that, of course, is always either the fear or apprehension when
a bill like this is brought forward, which is, everybody then
wants to add in" other sports or games, such as salmon derbies
and dogsled races. He said:
I don't know if the sponsor's intent was to do that.
I think from the associations that came to
Representative McGuire it was just pool and
specifically golf that they were intending. ... This
may require an amendment. ... Then everybody who does
a Calcutta, so it's not illegal, will want to add
their activity to the legislation.
AMY FREEDEN, Senior Controller, Shared Services Department, Cook
Inlet Tribal Council, she said that she works with over 40
nonprofit organizations as the financial advisor. She remarked
that she also serves on several boards and volunteers for
several nonprofit organizations. She stated that she supports
HB 61 because Calcutta pools are a very cost-effective way for
nonprofit organizations to raise funds to support their direct
services. She said that she has worked with several
organizations that have had golf tournaments, and one
organization raised $42,000 for educational scholarships. She
commented that this past year, without a Calcutta pool, the
funding was cut in half. She said, "There's over 2,000
nonprofits in the State of Alaska and they are could potentially
benefit from this."
CHAIR ANDERSON closed public testimony.
3:52:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG declared a potential conflict of
interest, "I have an insignificant, or perhaps a significant,
ownership interest in the Settler Bay Golf Course in Wasilla,
Alaska. Therefore there is the possibility that the passage of
this bill may affect or not affect the activities of my business
interest. However we're not sure whether it's significant or
insignificant."
CHAIR ANDERSON noted the conflict and stated that Representative
Rokeberg will still be required to vote. He then offered
Conceptual Amendment 1, which deletes the current Section 4 and
adds a new Section 4. He said:
Section 4 simply defines Calcutta pool, and it states,
"Calcutta pool means wagering on a contest of skill
limited to an amateur golf or pool tournament
conducted by a permittee in which those who wager,
bid, and auction for the exclusive right to purchase
or wager upon a particular contestant or entrant in
the event. And when the outcome of the event has been
decided, the total wagers comprised in the pool no
less than 30 percent 'take-out' by the permittee
conducting the event is distributed to", and we have
knocked out in the copy that it has been distributed.
That last line we have added, "to the charities". So
30 percent at a minimum must go to a charity from a
Calcutta pool. But in offering this Conceptual
Amendment 1 I want to add in, and the legal services
drafter can place this where necessary, presumably
with a comma after "pool" on the first line of the
amendment, "fishing derbies, and sled dog racing"."
CHAIR ANDERSON moved [to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1] as
written.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG objected.
CHAIR ANDERSON made the friendly amendment, adding "fishing
derbies and sled dog racing" to Section 4 of Version G.
3:54:42 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX commented that perhaps the wording could
be "professional and amateur sports tournaments".
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked for clarification regarding the use of
the words "sports activities"; he wondered if this would include
viewing as well as participating in sports.
3:56:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said that they need to think this through
further. He then goes on to ask if these are sports that you
are participating in or are they ones that are being viewed.
3:57:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated his support of Representative
LeDoux's idea and said,
Clearly from the testimony, to try to narrow the
definition is going to be problematic. ... This is an
old, kind of traditional fundraising mechanism. I've
got some concerns about mandating charitable
contributions.... It's ironic enough that once we
start talking about this in the legislature, people
start shutting these things down; there's a worry
about enforcing so-called gambling that's been self-
policed for years and now ... all of a sudden it's a
no-no.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG continued by stating that it was a
shame that the government has to intrude on stuff like
this. He said that by introducing more legislation like
this that more Calcuttas will be created.
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that while we have the conceptual
amendment before us, the committees should go to the witnesses.
He asked Mr. Meyers if he had any thoughts on how it should be
defined and how it could be phrased.
MR. MEYERS said:
We are working under the charitable gaming statutes
and regulations, this is what this bill is been
introduced in. ... If we issue a permit to a qualified
organization to have a charitable gaming permit, they
have certain guidelines. And they will lose their
permit if they're conducting unauthorized gaming or
gambling. In this instance it would be the Calcutta;
that is illegal gambling in the state as it stands
right now. What we're working with under this bill is
trying to bring in certain types of Calcutta that
would fit within the definition that would be
allowable under charitable gaming. What we propose,
because there already existed by definition is
"contest of skill", which means "a contest or game in
which prizes awarded for the demonstration of human
skill in marksmanship, races, and other athletic
events." So by it's nature that fits in nicely
talking about human sports, and we've also inserted
... the word "amateur" so that we don't get involved
in ...[a situation] where you could have a Calcutta
betting on professional sporting activities, because
that is again taking it into a whole new realm.
3:59:53 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON suggested changing [the bill] to define a
Calcutta pool as "wagering on a contest of skill limited to
amateur events in the state."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG objected. He commented that there have
been professional golf tournaments such as the Alaska Open,
where as many as 50 professional golfers were invited to play in
tournament. He pointed out that the Calcutta has been a major
proportion of the fundraising to create an actual professional
purse for that event. Therefore he stated his opposition to
restricting the wagering to solely amateur sports.
MR. MEYERS commented that perhaps "professional golf
tournaments" could be added to the wording, but he encouraged
the committee members to keep the word "amateur" in for as many
activities as possible.
CHAIR ANDERSON asked if Representative Rokeberg would be
satisfied with the deletion of the "golf and pool tournament"
reference and replaced it with "amateur events and professional
golf".
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX pointed out that if this change was made,
the Iditarod would be eliminated.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT commented that if Calcutta pools are
currently illegal then with this bill the legislature is
"legitimizing what I would view as illegitimate activities that
are currently ongoing in the state". He said, "If we adopted
this amendment like it is currently written, then those
activities that would be sanctioned would be those that would be
held within the state, therefore they would exclude ... the
March Madness [basketball tournament]." He asked Mr. Meyers for
confirmation of this.
MR. MEYERS agreed with Representative Kott's statement and said,
"That's why the key word is 'in the state'. That fits in with
the rest of the charitable activities."
4:03:33 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON recommended that Representative McGuire's staff
rewrite the bill. He withdrew Conceptual Amendment 1. He said,
"I still don't think we have a target on what exactly we want,
and maybe consider Mr. Harrington's concern in Anchor Point, so
we don't debate and throw in each sport or interested activity,
and I don't think we'll be content with the final result if we
don't have it worked out. ... Then we'll bring the bill back."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated that he is concerned about the 30
percent [required to be given to a charitable organization] and
he asked Mr. Meyer, from an enforcement standpoint, "how and who
has deemed this a problem in the first place and why are we even
messing with this issue."
MR. MEYERS replied, "The ... 30 percent is actually already
included for certain types of gaming activities that currently
exist. This is to ensure that the charities based on using
their name and their permit and their efforts are guaranteed a
certain minimum contribution back to them. After all that's the
purpose of this." He pointed out that pull-tabs have the same
percentage.
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG asked if 30 percent was high or low.
MR. MEYERS replied that the 30 percent minimum is similar to
other types of gaming in the state. He reiterated that the
whole point of the Calcutta is for the charities and this way
they are guaranteed a certain minimum.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Mr. Meyer if he had found any glaring
problems in Section 4 of Version 24-LS0281\G.
MR. MEYERS stated that the definition as written in Section 4
had been borrowed from a Wyoming statute.
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that the bill would be brought back to
the committee once the version was corrected and the working
amendment was phrased right.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT commented, "I think that the existing
Section 4 is an appropriate section of the bill. I think it's
less intrusive; it doesn't establish maximums or minimums. The
charities and the operators can hold a Calcutta on whatever they
want to hold it on, whether it's fishing or golfing or bowling."
4:07:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Mr. Meyer what defines a
qualifying organization.
MR. MEYERS read from AS 05.15.690(36):
"Qualified Organization" means a bona fide civic or
service organization or a bona fide religious,
charitable, fraternal, veterans, labor, political, or
educational organization, police or fire department
and company, dog mushers' association, outboard motor
association, or fishing derby or nonprofit trade
association in the state, that operates without
profits to its members and that has been in existence
continually for a period of three years immediately
before applying for the license or permit; the
organization may be a firm, corporation, company,
association, or partnership."
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked what the permitting fee costs are.
MR. MEYERS replied that it is generally $20 and "if they have
activities of more than [$]20,000 ... the year before it's $50,
and if it's over [$]100,000 it's $100".
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved to report CSHB 61, Version 24-
LS0281\G, from committee. There being no objection, CSHB
61(L&C) was reported from the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee.
HB 35-EXTEND BD ARCHITECTS/ENGINEERS/SURVEYORS
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that the next order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 35, "An Act extending the termination date of
the State Board of Registration for Architects, Engineers, and
Land Surveyors; and providing for an effective date."
4:09:36 PM
REPRESENTATIVE VIC KOHRING, Alaska State Legislature, testified
as the sponsor of HB 35. He explained that the bill would
extend the termination date of the State Board of Registration
for Architects, Engineers, and Land Surveyors (AELS Board). He
remarked, "It was brought to my attention as a former member of
the LB&A [Legislative Budget and Audit] committee that this
organization was going to sunset ... or it would at least go
into a one year sunset period and then be terminated one year
from Juneau if [the legislature] did not take action this year."
He pointed out that there are 11 members on the board, including
two civil engineers, two land surveyors, one mining engineer,
one electrical or mechanical engineer, one engineer from another
branch of the profession of engineering, two architects, one
landscape architect, and one public member. He explained that
the purpose of the board is to provide for public safety in
terms of issuing licenses in these professions, and conducting
disciplinary actions as needed. He noted that the legislative
audit division found that the organization is operating well and
serving the public interest effectively, and they have
recommended that the board be continued.
PAT DAVIDSON, Legislative Auditor, Alaska Division of
Legislative Audit, stated that the division conducted a sunset
review on the State Board of Registration for Architects,
Engineers, and Land Surveyors and recommended an extension of
the sunset date until June 30, 2009. She noted that the
division made three recommendations to the board. She
explained:
The first [recommendation] is for the legislature to
consider, requiring mandatory continuing professional
education. A bill was passed a couple of years ago
making it permissive. The board has not taken any
action to date to implement that, and we're
recommending that the legislature consider making that
mandatory. ... The second recommendation involves the
continuing evolution of the engineering profession.
Alaska recognizes the core disciplines of civil,
chemical, electrical, and mechanical engineering as
well as mining and petroleum engineers. Other states
have recognized other specialties or ... sub
disciplines. In this report we're recommending that
the board, in conjunction with the professional
society or with the University of Alaska, ... conduct
a comprehensive review regarding the public benefits
and the related costs associated with recognizing the
additional licenses in the Alaska structure. And the
third recommendation that we make is for the
legislature to consider making the landscape architect
a full voting member of the board. The number of
landscape architects is approximately the same as
mining engineers, who do have a designated seat on the
board.
4:12:10 PM
SAM KITO III, Alaska Profession Design Council, explained that
the council is "an organization of membership organizations that
represents architects, engineers, land surveyors, landscape
architects, and we are here ... to say that we fully support the
extension of the AELS Board to 2009." In response to Chair
Anderson, he said that the board is relatively new and they are
trying to understand the board composition issue. He remarked
that, at the upcoming February meeting, the board plans to
address the issue of having a mining versus a mining/geological
engineering seat; the board would prefer to deal with the
question of the landscape architect position at that time as
well.
4:14:52 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON pointed out to the new committee members that
there are a multitude of board and commission extensions. He
noted that in the past adding on to the bills [while in
committee] can slow the bill down. He said:
One thing I fear is if we amend the bill then maybe
your organization is suddenly against the bill because
of the amendment, and I don't think that would be the
intent. And so I don't intend to amend the bill and I
hope the committee takes that lead, that we can pass
it out and separate legislation can be brought forth
addressing Ms. Davidson's concerns.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG focused on Ms. Davidson's second
recommendation and stated that Alaska is one of the few states
that registers [engineers] by specific discipline, and "we're
short of numerous other disciplines. How do we handle these
people like a nuclear engineer or somebody that came up here and
wanted to be licensed?"
MR. KITO responded that most of those people apply for a general
civil engineering licenses or they will not be registered. He
remarked that the AELS Board currently has a subcommittee to
look into the issue of identification of registration
categories. He offered to send a report to the legislature
after the board's February meeting.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG commented that he thought the audit was
well done and had valid recommendations, particularly in regards
to continuing education. He also remarked that it would be nice
to resolve the [issue of whether to make the landscape architect
a full voting member of the board].
CHAIR ANDERSON closed public testimony.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved to report HB 35 out of committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying zero fiscal
note. There being no objection, HB 35 was reported from the
House Labor and Commerce Committee.
HB 15-SEASONAL HUNT/FISH LODGE LIQUOR LICENSE
CHAIR ANDERSON announced that the final order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 15, "An Act relating to seasonal alcoholic
beverage licenses; and providing for an effective date." He
explained that he held the bill [over from the previous week]
because he wanted to ask particular lodge owners if they would
be affected by the bill. He commented that he spoke with four
lodge owners from rural, interior Alaska, and all four responded
positively to the bill.
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT moved to adopt CSHB 15, Version 24-LS0075\I,
Luckhaupt, 1/31/05 as the working document. There being no
objection, Version I was before the committee.
MICHAEL PAWLOWSKI, Staff to Representative Kevin Meyer, Alaska
State Legislature, testified on behalf of Representative Meyer,
sponsor of HB 15. He presented an overview of the changes made
in Version I. He pointed out that the name of the license was
changed to "an outdoor recreation lodge". Also, the seasonal
limitation on the lodge was removed because some lodges provide
more than one seasonal activity. He said that Section 9, page
1, line 9 has the added line:
An outdoor recreation lodge license may not be
transferred.
MR. PAWLOWSKI stated that this line was added to address Chair
Anderson's concern that the law not impact valuation on existing
licenses. He said that in Section 2, page 1, line 12-14, the
definition of lodge has been changed to include the following
phrase:
is primarily involved in offering opportunities for
persons to engage in outdoor recreation activities
MR. PAWLOWSKI commented that the above phrase was added to give
the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board ("ABC Board") specific
statutory direction. He remarked that the primary purpose of a
lodge is to provide opportunities outdoor recreation, which is
different than a hotel or motel.
4:22:15 PM
MR. PAWLOWSKI then turned to Section 3 of Version I. Because
most lodges are in areas with small populations, he opined that
the lodges need to be exempted from AS 04.11.400(a), which
governs and limits the amount of licenses that can be issued.
At the same time, he said, Version I allows the licenses to be
issued but not transferred to maintain consistency with the new
Section 2.
REPRESENTATIVE GUTTENBERG asked if the license will be given to
the lodge or to the lodge owner. As an example, he asked if the
license would stay with the property when the lodge owner sold
the lodge.
MR. PAWLOWSKI replied that he would defer to ABC Board on this
issue, but he said that he thinks the license would be given to
the owner of the lodge. Therefore if the lodge was sold the new
owner would need to get a new license.
CHAIR ANDERSON asked if Mr. Pawlowski received a response of
opinion from the Cabaret Hotel Restaurant and Retailers
Association (CHARR) or the Alaska Restaurant and Beverage
Association (ARBA).
MR. PAWLOWSKI replied that he had not.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG turned attention to Section 2, page 1,
line 14 and asked why the minimum number of guest [rooms] is two
instead of four, six, or eight.
MR. PAWLOWSKI answered that it was difficult to write this bill
so that it would include as many different possible permutations
of an outdoor recreation lodge that exists in the State of
Alaska. He explained that some lodges are very small; he
explained that the bill allows lodges to serve alcohol "only to
the overnight guests, but in addition we've added off-duty staff
to the license to include people that are working out in the
field in these lodges and want to be able to be served when they
are off-duty." He said that the minimum number of two guest
rooms was recommended by the ABC BOARD, and this "does provide
the flexibility for a lot of the unique places in Alaska to
qualify for this license, as that is the intent."
Bob Klein, Chairman, Government Affairs Committee, CHARR, stated
that he is also retailer for Brown Jug in Anchorage, Alaska and
was speaking for both entities. He stated that he was on the
ABC Board for 12 years, nine of which he was the chairman. He
said that the bill is a way of bringing an already-occurring
practice under control. He also pointed out that the lodge
owners who acquire this license would be required to complete
[the two mandatory alcohol server training programs]: Training
for Intervention Procedures (TIPS) and Techniques in Alcohol
Management (TAM), and also would have the benefit of being
allowed to purchase from distributors or retailers, and can have
the goods sent to them. He said that [CHARR and Brown Jug]
support the bill.
4:27:38 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked how many of Brown Jug's clients
have only two beds in their lodge.
MR. KLEIN replied, "We actually raised the two beds as a
question, but Representative Meyers' group was pretty supportive
that that should be the low threshold." He commented that if
the bill is passed, "it has to go before the ABC [Board] for
further consideration and for some regulations that are attached
to it, and if two beds is too small ... they can put come
restrictions as well."
CHAIR ANDERSON pointed out that Representative Kott made the
observation that the bill states "two guest rooms", not "two
guest beds".
DOUG GRIFFIN, Director, ABC BOARD, said that Mr. Pawlowski did a
fine job on the bill. He commented that he interpreted the
"nontransferability of the license" to mean that when a lodge is
sold, the new owners would have to apply for a new license. He
stated that there shouldn't be any problem with someone applying
for a new license. He said, "We're trying to be sensitive to
the concerns of CHAR, that ... if you add transferability to the
license, it does obtain, in theory, some value".
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX asked what the rationale was in Section 3
for distinguishing between organized and unorganized boroughs.
MR. GRIFFIN explained that this is existing language that is in
the statute; the only change is the addition on subsection (m),
takes into account the lodge licenses. He said, "The whole idea
there is where you've got different standards where you've got
any kind of liquor license that's near an organized government,
that they have the ability to have some input. ... The idea is
to exempt these licenses from those population limitations."
4:32:31 PM
CHAIR ANDERSON closed public testimony.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved [to adopt Amendment 1, labeled 24-
LS0075\G.1, Luckhaupt, 1/20/05], "conceptually to fit into ...
[Version I]."
CHAIR ANDERSON objected for discussion purposes.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG gave an overview of Amendment 1, which
read:
Page 1, line 1, following "licenses;":
Insert "relating to transfer of certain beverage
dispensary licenses issued before June 6, 1985;"
Page 1, following line 14:
Insert a new bill section to read:
"* Sec. 3. AS 04.11.360 is amended to read:
Sec. 04.11.360. Denial of transfer of a license
to another person. An application requesting approval
of a transfer of a license to another person under
this title shall be denied if
(1) the board finds, after review of all
relevant information, that transfer of a license to
another person would not be in the best interests of
the public;
(2) the application has not been completed
in accordance with AS 04.11.280;
(3) the application contains false
statements of material fact;
(4) the transferor has not paid all debts
or taxes arising from the conduct of the business
licensed under this title unless
(A) the transferor gives security for the
payment of the debts or taxes satisfactory to the
creditor or taxing authority; or
(B) the transfer is under [PURSUANT TO] a
promise given as collateral by the transferor to the
transferee in the course of an earlier transfer of the
license under which promise the transferor is obliged
to transfer the license back to the transferee in the
event of default in payment for property conveyed as
part of the earlier transfer of the license;
(5) transfer of the license to another
person would result in violation of the provisions of
this title relating to identity of licensees and
financing of licensees;
(6) transfer of the license to another
person would violate the restrictions pertaining to
the particular license under this title;
(7) transfer of the license to another
person is prohibited under the provisions of this
title as a result of an election conducted under
AS 04.11.507;
(8) the prospective transferee does not
have the qualifications required under this title of
an original applicant;
(9) the license was issued under
AS 04.11.100(f) or 04.11.400(g); however, this
paragraph does not apply to a beverage dispensary
license issued before June 6, 1985, under former
AS 04.11.400(j); or
(10) the license was issued under
AS 04.11.135, unless the transferor is also applying
to transfer the beverage dispensary license required
under AS 04.11.135 to the same transferee."
Renumber the following bill section accordingly.
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated,
There is one license in the state left under this
subsection [AS 04.11.400(j)] and that's the license
for the Double Musky Restaurant in Girdwood, Alaska.
And that license, the beverage dispensary license, was
issued to [the owners] ... as a special public
convenience license. And one of the provisions when
it was issued was it had no transferability ... in
other words, you couldn't transfer it at all. ... The
business ... grew very successful over the years.
[The owner is] reaching his ... retirement age. His
son ... will be taking the business over. So even
under the provisions of the state law now, [the owner]
can't even will that business to his son; there's no
way that you can transfer the license right now.
Therefore what this particular small provision [will
do is] ... change that and ... allow ... the license
to be transferred to another individual.
MR. GRIFFIN stated that the ABC Board has no problem with
Representative Rokeberg's provision.
CHAIR ANDERSON remarked, "I know, for the record, Representative
Meyer ... didn't want the bill changed because her was in fear
that maybe this would make a catalyst for someone to object to
it at a future committee hearing."
MR. PAWLOWSKI said, "I believe that Representative Meyers'
statement to me was that the primary concern he had was with how
... ABC viewed it."
CHAIR ANDERSON removed his objection. There being no other
objections, the Amendment 1 was adopted by the committee.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN moved to report CSHB 15, Version 24-
LS0075\I, Luckhaupt, 1/31/05, as amended from committee with
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.
There being no objection, CSHB 15(L&C) was reported from the
House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at
4:37:46 PM.
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