Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/11/1997 03:30 PM House L&C
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
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= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE
April 11, 1997
3:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Norman Rokeberg, Chairman
Representative John Cowdery, Vice Chairman
Representative Bill Hudson
Representative Jerry Sanders
Representative Joe Ryan
Representative Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 137
"An Act exempting certain volunteer emergency medical technicians
and volunteer firefighters from state wage and hour laws; and
providing for an effective date."
- MOVED HCSSB 137(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SB 137
SHORT TITLE: EXEMPT VOL. EMT/FIRE FGTR WAGE & HOUR LAW
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) LEMAN, Miller, Taylor, Pearce, Mackie
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/12/97 695 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/12/97 695 (S) L&C
03/26/97 874 (S) L&C RPT 3DP 1NR
03/26/97 874 (S) DP: LEMAN, KELLY MILLER; NR: HOFFMAN
03/26/97 874 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTES (LABOR, DPS)
04/02/97 934 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/2/97
04/02/97 937 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/02/97 938 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CONSENT
04/02/97 938 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SB 137
04/02/97 937 (S) COSPONSOR(S): TAYLOR, PEARCE, MACKIE
04/02/97 938 (S) PASSED Y18 N- A2
04/02/97 938 (S) EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE
04/02/97 944 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/03/97 920 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
04/03/97 920 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE
WITNESS REGISTER
ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant
to Senator Loren Leman
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 113
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-2095
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HCSSB 137(L&C).
TOM DEAN, CHIEF,
Emergency Medical Service
Tok Area
Box 811
Tok, Alaska 99780
Telephone: (907) 883-5873
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCSSB 137(L&C).
CRAIG LEWIS, Executive Director
Interior Region
Emergency Medical Services
3522 Industrial Avenue
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Telephone: (907) 456-3978
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCSSB 137 (L&C).
RANDY CARR, Chief
Labor Standards, Mechanical Inspection
Division of Labor Standards and Safety
Department of Labor
P.O.Box 107021
Anchorage, Alaska 99510
Telephone: (907) 269-4914
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified that the department does not oppose
HCSSB 137 (L&C).
MARK JOHNSON, Chief
Community Health and Emergency Medical Services
Central Office
Division of Public Health
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110616
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Telephone: (907) 465-3027
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCSSB 137(L&C).
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-39, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIRMAN NORMAN ROKEBERG called the House Labor and Commerce
Standing Committee to order at 3:30 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Cowdery, Sanders, Ryan, Hudson
and Rokeberg.
SB 137 - EXEMPT VOL. EMT/FIRE FGTR WAGE & HOUR LAW
Number 0046
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that the committee would hear SB 137
"An Act exempting certain volunteer emergency medical technicians
and volunteer firefighters from state wage and hour laws; and
providing for an effective date." He stated that Senator Leman's
staff will present the bill.
Number 082
ANNETTE KREITZER, Legislative Assistant to Senator Loren Leman,
stated that the committee has a blank committee substitute for the
bill and if the committee decides to adopt it, she will explain the
reason for the change.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Ms. Kreitzer to tell the committee what the
bill does and then they will take up the committee substitute.
Number 108
MS. KREITZER stated that the bill was introduced at the request of
Interior Region Emergency Medical Services, (EMS). It adds
voluntary Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT) and firefighters to
the list of those exempted from the Alaska Wage and Hour Act. She
stated that it was necessary to do so because the interpretation by
the Department of Labor, of what constitutes an employee/employer
relationship under the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act. The
interpretation has been confusing and inconsistent and there is no
clear exemption for these volunteers under current law. She stated
that the Department of Labor does not have a clear category to be
able to exempt firefighters and EMTs for the purposes of
reimbursement for out-of-pocket expenses. The bill does this.
Number 192
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY made a motion to adopt HCSSB 137(L&C),
0-LSO727, Version E, 4/10/97.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there was an objection, hearing none,
HCSSB 137(L&C) was adopted.
Number 229
MS. KREITZER stated that the reason for the committee substitute is
that she had received a phone call from a combined fire department,
which is a fire department that has both paid and volunteer
firefighters. Their concern was that the bill would be used to
force paid firefighters to volunteer, which was not the intent of
the bill. The intent is just to get volunteer firemen exempt from
the Alaska Wage and Hour Act for the purpose of reimbursement. She
stated that the changes in the committee substitute are on line 5,
in which the word "only" has been added to read "an individual who
provides emergency medical services only on a voluntary basis or an
individual who serves with a full-time fire department only on a
voluntary basis." She stated that the other change is that in the
previous bill it stated that "an individual who serves with a full-
time fire department on a temporary, voluntary basis", the word
"temporary" was deleted because the drafter did not understand why
the word was in there to begin with. It was her understanding that
firefighters who volunteer do not just volunteer for one year but
for many years. She stated that with the word "temporary" in the
bill, those firefighters would not be included as individuals who
could be reimbursed for their out-of-pocket expenses.
Number 350
REPRESENTATIVE BILL HUDSON asked what would be an example of the
fiscal effect with and with out this bill.
Number 360
MS. KREITZER replied that the Tok EMS representative could explain
his service as one that was impacted by the lack of this
legislation. She stated that his service would have to organize
forms which would add cost.
Number 413
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON asked if the Tok representative could also
speak to the overtime impact.
Number 474
TOM DEAN, CHIEF, Emergency Medical Services, Tok Area, testified
via teleconference in Tok, that EMS is an active service with some
long transports from Tok to Fairbanks two or three times a month,
averaging nine hours. He stated that occasionally they go to
Anchorage which is a 15-hour trip. He stated that the EMTs are
completely volunteer and he does not want it to cost the volunteers
in out-of-pocket expenses, especially on the long transports. He
stated that his concern is not to have a financial hardship on the
volunteers. He stated that they are not in the position to get
into a paid or partially paid employer/employee relationship. His
concern is if people are willing to give their time it should not
cost them to do so. He stated that he is in favor of the bill.
Number 653
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if he could give an example of traveling to
Anchorage or Fairbanks for training with the costs, and where this
bill would apply.
Number 675
MR. DEAN replied that paying the per diem to cover meals and
incidentals when out of town for training or out of town on
transports would help. He stated that his concern is that they
don't get into hourly wages and an employer/employee relationship.
He stated that they want to be fair to the volunteers and at the
same time not have any legal hassles. He stated that the amount of
money is not a lot, but apparently it is enough where it could be
a question of hour wage loss.
Number 748
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if volunteers receive any benefits
from the state for their work.
MR. DEAN asked if he was asking in regards to the service or to the
individual people.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY replied for the people.
Number 771
MR. DEAN responded no the only benefit for the people is the
training, the experience and helping their neighbors.
REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY asked if there is any compensation or health
benefits.
Number 792
MR. DEAN replied no.
Number 801
REPRESENTATIVE JOE RYAN stated that there are a number of volunteer
fire organizations because the bureau cannot afford to put together
class one employees and pay for them. The borough supplies
equipment and training and the volunteers are not compensated
because there is no provision to compensate them. He stated money
would be appropriated from time to time to purchase new equipment
but there was no benefit or employment package for the volunteers.
He stated that in remote areas, volunteers are the only service
that provides fire protection.
Number 873
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked Mr. Dean if he could send a letter
explaining his support for the bill.
Number 904
MR. DEAN stated that he would.
Number 904
CRAIG LEWIS, Executive Director, Interior Region, Emergency Medical
Services and President of the Alaska Emergency Medical Association,
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks, in support of the
bill. He stated that 2,000 volunteers across the state of Alaska
provide the predominance of all the pre-hospital care done in the
state. They do this of their own volition, on their free time and
in many cases with their own money. He stated that there is the
situation of having many rules which impact the definition of what
a volunteer is and what is an employee. An EMT that is a volunteer
right now, is on the edge of being interpreted as an employee under
the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act and under the Wage and Hour
Law of Alaska. He stated that then the agencies become employers
and would have to assume all the responsibilities that an employer
would have to assume when, in reality, all the organization wants
to do is volunteer their time to help their neighbors in times of
crisis. He stated that if a group of people tells you when to come
to work, provides a uniform, a vehicle, in this case an ambulance,
provides training and reimburses expenses, it is interpreted by the
Federal Fair Labor Standards Act as no longer being a volunteer but
being an employee. He stated that they are trying to add to
legislation that is already in place for educational institutions,
sanitary workers and religious organizations, so volunteer EMTs and
firefighters are not forced out of business. He stated that these
organizations cannot afford to do things that are required of an
employer. The people who volunteer are not asking that they do
those things and subsequently he would like to be able to keep
those volunteers. He stated that the Governors's Advisory Council
on Emergency Medical Services also supports this idea.
Number 1155
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if he could ask the Governor's Advisory
Council to provide the committee with a letter.
Number 1167
MR. LEWIS stated that the council is meeting in Juneau at the end
of April and the Chairman of the council is Dr. John Hall. He
stated that he would ask him for a letter.
Number 1183
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that hopefully the bill will pass before
that date but a letter would be helpful. He thanked the several
thousand volunteers around the state and stated that it is the
committee's intent to fix any problems in the law that creates
undue burdens on the organization.
Number 1211
RANDY CARR, Chief, Labor Standards, Mechanical Inspection, Division
of Labor Standards and Safety, Department of Labor, testified via
teleconference from Anchorage that this legislation seeks to level
the playing field between the private non-profit emergency service
organizations that exist in some of the rural areas and in some
areas of Fairbanks and all of the public fire departments and
emergency rescue services. He stated that most of the public
services have a voluntary arm but as a public sector entity are
exempt from the State Wage and Hour Act. The private non-profit
organizations do not have that exemption; they have to qualify
under another exemption. He stated that the only one that comes
close is AS 23.10.055 which addresses non-profit organizations but
limits them to religious, charitable, cemetery or educational
organizations. He stated that the charter and bylaws of the
emergency services organizations do not define them as one of those
four types of non-profit. He stated that by default they are in
the situation of not legally being able to accept volunteer labor
under the current status of the state law and they are covered
under the State Wage and Hour Act. He stated that the department
has not had any wage claims but have identified that the exemption
does not cover the emergency services and there is gap in terms of
operations, causing them to have to consider themselves employers.
He stated that a situation that has arisen is that there needs to
be a person in the ambulance garage location overnight so that
should a call come in, they will have the equipment fired up and
ready when the volunteers get there. He stated that these people
would do this in exchange for room and board but because they
cannot avoid the minimum wage overtime requirement this would be
illegal. He stated that the intent of this legislation is to allow
the private non-profit rescue and fire organizations to have the
same exempt status that allows them to accept volunteer labor. He
stated that the Department of Labor does not oppose this
legislation and it has minor impact across the state, because the
majority of volunteers work for public entities rather than private
entities.
Number 1419
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON stated that a couple years back legislation
was passed regarding volunteer firefighters and policemen and asked
if volunteer policeman would be included in this legislation.
Number 1444
MR. CARR replied that it does not apply and he is not aware of any
private police organization that exists in the state. To his
knowledge they are all under the political subdivision's
exemptions.
Number 1459
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any instances where the state
tried to enforce the State Wage and Hour Act against any of the
organizations.
Number 1469
MR. CARR replied there have not been any claims filed with the
department. He stated that they have shown the organizations where
the pitfalls lay and gave them the opportunity to restructure the
operation to avoid the potential liability. He stated that a small
wage claim could put these organizations under and the department
is tying to avoid this. He stated that the department is trying to
work with the organizations to assure that they avoid a liability
that they can not afford.
Number 1513
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG stated that Mr. Carr indicated that the
department does not oppose the bill and asked what would make him
support the bill.
Number 1520
MR. CARR replied that as an historical matter the department does
not like to see any individual employee's rights to minimum wage or
overtime eroded. He stated that the bill does that, but the
department does believe that the impact is extremely small, which
is offset by the general public policy benefit that is affected by
the bill.
Number 1562
MARK JOHNSON, Chief, Community Health and Emergency Medical
Services, Central Office, Division of Public Health, Department of
Health and Social Services, stated that the department supports the
intent of the legislation. He stated that this bill makes it
easier for volunteers to be reimbursed, which is one more step to
the ability to recruit new volunteers or to retain the volunteers
that are already in the system. He stated that in most of rural
Alaska, the system is the volunteers. He stated that in regard to
Representative Cowdery's question, volunteers do not get many
benefits from the state. He stated that Representative Hudson's
bill on worker's compensation was a help and there was a bill that
enabled volunteers in the unorganized areas to get Hepatitis B
vaccinations. He stated that the department definitely supports
this legislation.
Number 1625
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if the department supports this
legislation.
MR. JOHNSON replied yes.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if he could send a letter stating the
department's support.
Number 1633
MR. JOHNSON replied that he believed he could.
Number 1654
REPRESENTATIVE HUDSON made a motion to move HCSSB 137(L&C), 0-
LSO727, Version E, 4/10/97, zero fiscal note, with individual
recommendations and asked unanimous consent.
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG asked if there were any objections, hearing none,
HCSSB 137(L&C) moved out of the House Labor and Commerce Standing
Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 1724
CHAIRMAN ROKEBERG adjourned the House Labor and Commerce Standing
at 3:54 p.m.
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