Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/08/2002 03:25 PM L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                         
                         April 8, 2002                                                                                          
                           3:25 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chair                                                                                            
Representative Andrew Halcro, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Kevin Meyer                                                                                                      
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                   
Representative Joe Hayes                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 409                                                                                                              
"An Act rejecting the use of daylight saving time."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 409 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 277                                                                                                              
"An Act relating  to liens by owners  of self-storage facilities;                                                               
distinguishing self-storage  facility liens from another  type of                                                               
storage  lien;   and  excluding   self-storage  liens   from  the                                                               
treatment of certain unclaimed property."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD; ASSIGNED TO SUBCOMMITTEE                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 448                                                                                                              
"An  Act relating  to  establishing a  data  base of  residential                                                               
telephone  customers  who  do  not   wish  to  receive  telephone                                                               
solicitations, providing  that the  data base  be compiled  at no                                                               
cost  to   the  customers,  requiring  telephone   solicitors  to                                                               
purchase  the  data  base,  and   requiring  paid  solicitors  to                                                               
register; and providing for an effective date."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 429                                                                                                              
"An  Act relating  to certain  licenses for  the sale  of tobacco                                                               
products; relating to  tobacco taxes and sales  and cigarette tax                                                               
stamps;   relating  to   provisions  making   certain  cigarettes                                                               
contraband  and subject  to seizure  and forfeiture;  relating to                                                               
certain crimes, penalties, and  interest concerning tobacco taxes                                                               
and  sales;  relating  to   notification  regarding  a  cigarette                                                               
manufacturer's  noncompliance  with  the tobacco  product  Master                                                               
Settlement  Agreement  or  related statutory  provisions  and  to                                                               
confiscation  of the  affected cigarettes;  and providing  for an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 409                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:ELIMINATE DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME                                                                                      
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)LANCASTER BY REQUEST                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/13/02     2233       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
02/13/02     2233       (H)        L&C                                                                                          
03/06/02     2496       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): KOHRING                                                                        
03/15/02     2563       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): CROFT                                                                          
03/25/02     2674       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): WILSON                                                                         
03/27/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
03/27/02                (H)        -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                       
04/03/02     2788       (H)        COSPONSOR REMOVED: WILSON                                                                    
04/04/02     2806       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): FOSTER                                                                         
04/08/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 277                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:SELF-STORAGE FACILITY LIENS                                                                                         
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)DAVIES                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
01/14/02     1947       (H)        PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/02                                                                      
01/14/02     1947       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
01/14/02     1947       (H)        L&C, JUD                                                                                     
01/30/02     2100       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): DYSON                                                                          
03/27/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
03/27/02                (H)        -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                       
04/08/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 448                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:TELEMARKETERS PHONE LISTS/REGISTRATION                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)CRAWFORD                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/19/02     2309       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
02/19/02     2309       (H)        L&C, JUD                                                                                     
03/13/02     2530       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): MORGAN                                                                         
03/15/02     2564       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): PORTER,                                                                        
                                   KERTTULA                                                                                     
03/18/02     2593       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): LANCASTER                                                                      
03/19/02     2611       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): HUDSON                                                                         
03/22/02     2654       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): GREEN, HAYES                                                                   
03/25/02     2674       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): HALCRO                                                                         
03/26/02     2691       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): GUESS, WILSON                                                                  
03/27/02     2720       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): MEYER, CROFT                                                                   
04/01/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
04/01/02                (H)        Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                      
04/02/02     2765       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): BERKOWITZ                                                                      
04/04/02     2806       (H)        COSPONSOR REMOVED: LANCASTER                                                                 
04/05/02     2820       (H)        COSPONSOR(S): LANCASTER                                                                      
04/08/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KEN LANCASTER                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 421                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as the sponsor of HB 409.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
JUSTIN CARRO, Intern                                                                                                            
for Representative Lancaster                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 421                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided clarification with regard to                                                                      
Alaska data regarding accidents during a time change.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS HARRIS                                                                                                                   
PO Box 21214                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                                                                            
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Indicated  opposition  to  HB 409  and  in                                                               
relation  to HB  277, provided  information regarding  seizure of                                                               
the   property   of   military  personnel   stationed   overseas.                                                               
Testified in favor of HB 448, but suggested improvements.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RICH POOR                                                                                                                       
PO Box 240176                                                                                                                   
Douglas, Alaska 99824                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 409.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
RANDY LORENZ                                                                                                                    
326 North Bailey House                                                                                                          
Palmer, Alaska 99645                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 409.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PAULA RAK                                                                                                                       
PO Box 1852                                                                                                                     
Wrangell, Alaska 99929                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 409.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ROY HOYT, JR.                                                                                                                   
PO Box 2121                                                                                                                     
Homer, Alaska 99603                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 409.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT TOBEY                                                                                                                    
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in opposition to HB 409.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
LEIGH DENNISON                                                                                                                  
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 409.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHARLES BROBST, President and CEO                                                                                               
North Pacific Auctioneers Limited                                                                                               
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of staying on standard                                                                
time and related concerns and suggestions for HB 277.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
JOEL CURTIS                                                                                                                     
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Discussed problems with the current system                                                                 
of changing between daylight saving time and standard time.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LYNN WILLIS                                                                                                                     
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 409.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
BOB WOLVINGTON                                                                                                                  
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 409.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
JOANN JACKINSKY                                                                                                                 
PO Box 1025                                                                                                                     
Kasilof, Alaska 99610                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 409.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HELEN DONAHUE, Staff                                                                                                            
to Representative Ken Lancaster                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 421                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions regarding HB 409.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN DAVIES                                                                                                      
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 415                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as the sponsor of HB 277.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
AMY KAUFMAN, Staff                                                                                                              
to Representative Davies                                                                                                        
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 415                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided additional information regarding                                                                  
HB 277.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
GRANT CARLIN, Self-Storage Operator                                                                                             
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 277.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
STEVE CONN (ph)                                                                                                                 
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in agreement with Mr. Brobst's                                                                   
comments.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CODY RICE, Intern                                                                                                               
for Representative Joe Hayes                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 422                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 448.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
BOB TAYLOR                                                                                                                      
Alaska Commission on Aging                                                                                                      
PO Box 110209                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska 99811                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of the approach of HB                                                                 
448.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MARIE DARLIN                                                                                                                    
AARP                                                                                                                            
(No address provided)                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  that AARP would  like to  see HB                                                               
448 passed  once the  concerns of  the attorney  general's office                                                               
are addressed.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-52, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LISA  MURKOWSKI  called   the  House  Labor  and  Commerce                                                               
Standing   Committee    meeting   to    order   at    3:25   p.m.                                                               
Representatives  Murkowski,  Halcro,  Meyer,  and  Crawford  were                                                               
present at  the call to  order.  Representatives  Kott, Rokeberg,                                                               
and Hayes arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HB 409-ELIMINATE DAYLIGHT SAVING TIME                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO.  409, "An  Act rejecting  the use  of daylight                                                               
saving time."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0129                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KEN   LANCASTER,   Alaska   State   Legislature,                                                               
testified as  the sponsor  of HB  409.   Representative Lancaster                                                               
stated that HB  409 allows Alaska to stay on  year round standard                                                               
time just  like Hawaii, Arizona,  parts of Indiana,  and numerous                                                               
areas around the world.   Representative Lancaster explained that                                                               
daylight  saving  time  was originally  introduced  as  a  health                                                               
measure in the  seventeen hundreds, and was  again implemented in                                                               
World War I and World War II  and during the energy crisis in the                                                               
1970s.   "The modern world  no longer  starts and stops  with the                                                               
rise and  fall of  the sun," he  said.   Representative Lancaster                                                               
informed the committee  that to date his office  has received 100                                                               
letters in support of HB 409 and 5 against it.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER noted  his support of this  legislation.  He                                                               
inquired as  to why this  legislation has been introduced  in the                                                               
past, but hasn't passed.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LANCASTER noted  that Representative  Rokeberg is                                                               
the  one who  held  the last  bill introduced  on  this topic  in                                                               
committee.    Representative  Rokeberg   and  others  claim  that                                                               
elimination  of daylight  saving time  could have  some detriment                                                               
economically.   However, Representative Lancaster  indicated that                                                               
he  wasn't convinced  it  made  such a  difference.   In  further                                                               
response  to   Representative  Meyer,   Representative  Lancaster                                                               
acknowledged  that  one  concern  is  that  a  5-hour  difference                                                               
between here  and the  East Coast  is too much.   With  regard to                                                               
that concern,  Representative Lancaster  related his  belief that                                                               
there  should be  a  West Coast  stock market  and  it should  be                                                               
located in Alaska.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0410                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO noted that  the committee packet includes a                                                               
study  produced  by  the National  Sleep  Foundation  (NSF)  with                                                               
regard to  fatal accidents following  changes to  daylight saving                                                               
time.  The  NSF study seemed to conclude that  the day after time                                                               
changes, there was a higher  degree of fatal accidents.  However,                                                               
the  Alaska  Department  of Transportation  &  Public  Facilities                                                               
indicates that this isn't an issue in Alaska.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0466                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JUSTIN CARRO,  Intern for Representative Lancaster,  Alaska State                                                               
Legislature, related  his understanding  that the system  used by                                                               
the Alaska  Department of Transportation  & Public  Facilities is                                                               
too archaic  for the  department to  extract that  specific data,                                                               
while nationally the data supports [what NSF reports].                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LANCASTER  informed the committee that  the school                                                               
district  [in  his area],  especially  the  Soldotna High  School                                                               
government class, wanted this legislation to pass.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD related his  experience as a construction                                                               
worker.  He  informed the committee that for the  first few weeks                                                               
after  a time  change  it's  difficult for  the  body to  adjust.                                                               
Furthermore, he  has noticed that  there are more  accidents when                                                               
people are tired and sleepy  and thus he applauded Representative                                                               
Lancaster for bringing this legislation forward.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS HARRIS related that he  enjoyed the extra hour of daylight                                                               
that he received  due to the change.  "Quite  frankly, I think it                                                               
isn't broke and it doesn't need fixing," he said.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0654                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RICH POOR provided the following testimony:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     This  letter is  to  register my  objection to  keeping                                                                    
     Alaska on  Alaska standard time year-round.   The bill,                                                                    
     if  passed, would  make doing  business between  Alaska                                                                    
     and  the Lower  48  more difficult.    It would  reduce                                                                    
     after-hour  recreational activities,  and would  impact                                                                    
     travel  to and  from  Alaska.   Here  are  some of  the                                                                    
     examples  of the  potential problems  that would  occur                                                                    
     seven months out of the year:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     *   After-work  recreational   opportunities  such   as                                                                    
     fishing, softball, baseball,  football, hiking, soccer,                                                                    
     et  cetera  will lose  an  additional  hour of  evening                                                                    
     daylight.    This  would  definitely  impact  Southeast                                                                    
     Alaska  in particular,  and the  rest of  Alaska during                                                                    
     the  late  summer  and  fall.    Communities  have  put                                                                    
     millions of  dollars into  the construction  of outdoor                                                                    
     recreational  facilities that  would  be  used less  if                                                                    
     this bill were passed.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     *  Businesses with  suppliers and  home offices  in the                                                                    
     Lower  48  states  would lose  an  additional  hour  of                                                                    
     communication time.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     *  Communication   with  Washington,  D.C.,   would  be                                                                    
     reduced by an additional hour.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     * Stockbrokers,  financial institutions, and  people in                                                                    
     general  that deal  with the  New  York Stock  Exchange                                                                    
     would have to  get up an hour earlier to  deal with the                                                                    
     opening of the stock market.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     * Tourists crossing the borders  into Alaska would have                                                                    
     to change their  watches back two hours  instead of one                                                                    
     hour.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     * People  flying south in  the morning  with connecting                                                                    
     flights out  of Seattle  would have to  get up  an hour                                                                    
     earlier.   ...    Also people  traveling outside  would                                                                    
     face  increased  jet lag  even  traveling  to the  West                                                                    
     Coast.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     *  Telephone contact  with relatives  in  the Lower  48                                                                    
     would be reduced by two hours ....                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0766                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     There is  a misperception in  other parts of  the state                                                                    
     that  the governor  and the  legislature  had the  time                                                                    
     zone  changed in  the early  1980s just  to accommodate                                                                    
     Juneau.   This  is  not  true.   Prior  to the  change,                                                                    
     Southeast [Alaska] was on Pacific  time, Yakutat was on                                                                    
     Yukon  time, the  Rail Belt  was on  Alaska/Hawaii time                                                                    
     and western Alaska  was on Aleutian time.   So everyone                                                                    
     in  the state  had  to make  an  adjustment except  for                                                                    
     Yakutat.   This,  however, did  put 95  percent of  the                                                                    
     state's population  on one time  zone and made  a major                                                                    
     improvement in communication throughout the state.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     If  it is  decided that  Alaska should  be on  one time                                                                    
     year round, then make it  Alaska Daylight Savings time.                                                                    
     You  would still  accomplish one  of the  objectives in                                                                    
     this bill,  not having  to change  your clock  back and                                                                    
     forth twice  a year, but  you would also  eliminate the                                                                    
     examples identified  above.   The most  positive impact                                                                    
     with daylight  savings time would  be that  five months                                                                    
     out of  the year Alaska  would be  on the same  time as                                                                    
     the rest of  the West Coast, and an hour  closer to the                                                                    
     Heartland and the Eastern Seaboard.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     After  talking  to several  stockbrokers,  businessman,                                                                    
     and  people in  the  financial and  tour industry,  the                                                                    
     common  response was  "Why  do we  want  to put  Alaska                                                                    
     further behind the rest of  the nation seven months out                                                                    
     of the year?"   They did say, however,  that they would                                                                    
     be  mildly  supportive  to   stay  on  Alaska  daylight                                                                    
     savings  time  year round  because  it  would bring  us                                                                    
     closer to  the Lower 48  states five months out  of the                                                                    
     year.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. POOR  turned to the issue  of safety and highlighted  that in                                                               
Fairbanks and Anchorage the worst  traffic accidents occur in the                                                               
winter,  usually  in the  evening.    If  Alaska was  on  Pacific                                                               
daylight time all year, there would  be an extra hour of daylight                                                               
in the  evening during  the winter.   Therefore, rush  hour would                                                               
occur in the daylight rather than in the dark.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0889                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
RANDY  LORENZ,  former  committee  aide  for  the  House  Health,                                                               
Education and  Social Services Standing Committee,  testified via                                                               
teleconference.  He  informed the committee that  during his time                                                               
as  the committee  aide he  worked on  HB 4,  the legislation  to                                                               
eliminate  daylight saving  time.   He noted  that the  committee                                                               
should have his  written testimony in the committee  packet.  Mr.                                                               
Lorenz  also  informed the  committee  that  the [U.S.  National]                                                               
Highway Traffic  Safety Administration  conducted research  of 33                                                               
states in the  Lower 48.  The study found  that during the change                                                               
to  daylight  saving time  there  was  a  7 percent  increase  in                                                               
traffic fatalities and there was  a corresponding decrease during                                                               
the change  back to  standard time.   Furthermore,  the increased                                                               
sleep  deficiency caused  by  that change  is  compounded by  the                                                               
changes in  illumination when driving  to and from  work.     Mr.                                                               
Lorenz  pointed out  that the  aforementioned [difficulties  with                                                               
the  change to  daylight saving  time]  and [the  fact that]  our                                                               
society is  sufficiently sleep deprived  result in  a significant                                                               
increase   in   one's   susceptibility   to   accidents.      The                                                               
aforementioned  results   in  higher  costs  for   insurance  and                                                               
workers' compensation  claims.  He  noted that the  his testimony                                                               
doesn't [even] address  the impact the change  to daylight saving                                                               
time  has  on  mentally  and emotionally  ill  individuals.    He                                                               
further  noted that  his testimony  doesn't discuss  the positive                                                               
economic benefits  to staying on  standard time,  especially with                                                               
regard  to developing  Alaska's connection  with the  Pacific Rim                                                               
and the possibility of a mobile logistic center.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. LORENZ  informed the committee  that he performed his  on [an                                                               
informal] study  on this  matter.   After interviewing  about 200                                                               
individuals on  this matter, 178  were significantly  impacted by                                                               
the  change  and  complained  about  being  anxious,  tired,  and                                                               
irritable.   He related that  50 people he interviewed  said they                                                               
were unable to get to sleep  until their normal standard time and                                                               
thus were sluggish the next  morning.  With regard to suggestions                                                               
that Alaska  go to Alaska  standard time, Mr. Lorenz  pointed out                                                               
that federal  law only allows  a state  to go to  daylight saving                                                               
time or not.   A change to standard time would  require an act of                                                               
Congress.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1185                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
PAULA RAK testified  via teleconference in opposition  to HB 409.                                                               
Although  some may  be inconvenienced  by  changing their  clocks                                                               
twice a year, it's not as  inconvenient as being two hours off of                                                               
Seattle  half  the  year.    Ms. Rak  pointed  out  that  federal                                                               
statutes 15 U.S.  Code 260-64 says, "Time  zones were established                                                               
in the U.S.  with the regard for the convenience  of commerce and                                                               
the  existing  junction  points and  division  points  of  common                                                               
carriers  engaged in  inter-state  commerce."   She informed  the                                                               
committee that  the convenience of  commerce has been  defined to                                                               
include the consideration of all  impacts upon a community, which                                                               
includes impacts on individuals,  families, businesses, and other                                                               
organizations.  She noted Southeast's  tie to Seattle with regard                                                               
to commerce.   Were HB  409 adopted,  [Alaska] would be  one hour                                                               
off of  Seattle's time  in the  winter and two  hours off  in the                                                               
summer.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. RAK recalled  that in 1983 elected officials  wanted to unify                                                               
Alaska  by combining  time zones,  and therefore  most of  Alaska                                                               
changed  to  Alaska  standard  time,   while  most  residents  in                                                               
Southeast Alaska wanted  to stay on Pacific standard  time.  When                                                               
most of Alaska  changed [to Alaska standard time],  it placed the                                                               
farthest east  and farthest  west residents on  a time  zone that                                                               
wasn't  natural  for the  rhythms  of  the  sun in  either  area.                                                               
Although it  was touted as  a compromise,  unfortunately everyone                                                               
found  it inconvenient.   Ms.  Rak suggested  that Alaska  either                                                               
live with the compromise or  return to the situation before 1983.                                                               
If  there is  objection to  changing  clocks twice  a year,  then                                                               
let's just stay on daylight saving time all year.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. RAK,  speaking as a business  owner, noted that she  finds it                                                               
very  inconvenient  to be  four  hours  different from  the  East                                                               
Coast.   The change  proposed in  HB 409  would result  in Alaska                                                               
being five  hours different part of  the year.  Ms.  Rak reminded                                                               
committee members that Southeast is  much farther south [than the                                                               
northern areas]  and thus the  longer days [in the  Interior] are                                                               
still shorter  than those in  Southeast.    She pointed  out that                                                               
children would lose  an hour of play time after  school.  Ms. Rak                                                               
concluded by  suggesting that northern residents  could change to                                                               
the time  zone they  like and  Southeast could  continue changing                                                               
between  standard  time  and daylight  saving  time,  or  perhaps                                                               
Pacific standard time could be utilized for the entire state.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1378                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROY HOYT, JR.,  testified via teleconference in  opposition to HB                                                               
409.  He noted that he  has experienced all the time zone changes                                                               
in the state, and was even a  resident of Yakutat when it had its                                                               
own time.   He  related his belief  that elimination  of daylight                                                               
saving  time would  adversely impact  commerce.   With regard  to                                                               
sleep deprivation  concerns, Mr.  Hoyt indicated  that it  was in                                                               
the hands of the individual.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1484                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ROBERT TOBEY, Small Business  Owner, testified via teleconference                                                               
in opposition  to HB  409.   In fact, HB  409 would  increase the                                                               
cost of  doing business and decrease  Alaska's competitiveness in                                                               
the  business  world.    Were  HB  409  to  pass,  the  five-hour                                                               
difference between the  East Coast and Alaska would  only offer a                                                               
two- to three-hour  overlap during the business  day, which makes                                                               
it  extremely difficult  to place  orders  and conduct  business.                                                               
The   turn-around  time   [for  orders]   would  effectively   be                                                               
lengthened by at  least a day.  He pointed  out that most outside                                                               
businesses won't attempt to place  orders, start jobs, or conduct                                                               
conferences  during the  last hour  or two  of the  business day.                                                               
Increasing the  time gap with the  Lower 48 will cause  Alaska to                                                               
suffer due to increased resistance  to business travel.  The time                                                               
difference  on travelers  is a  very negative  factor that  would                                                               
have to  be overcome in  order to  promote Alaska has  a business                                                               
site or convention center.   Furthermore, studies have shown that                                                               
more daylight  in the  evening saves energy  due to  longer light                                                               
during  peak  demands for  energy,  which  is  an area  in  which                                                               
Alaskans  need all  the help  available.   Moreover, this  change                                                               
will  disrupt communications  because five  hours will  be a  big                                                               
difference for Alaskans attempting to  contact folks in the Lower                                                               
48.   Additionally, Mr.  Tobey noted that  he prefers  to receive                                                               
prime time programming, news, and  current shows rather than paid                                                               
programming and advertisements.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. TOBEY recalled  the compromise with the time  zones and urged                                                               
the  legislature, if  it  must  tinker with  the  time zones,  to                                                               
reduce  the gap  between  the  Lower 48  and  Alaska rather  than                                                               
increase it.   Mr. Tobey,  as a parent, echoed  earlier testimony                                                               
that he would  prefer added daylight after school  when there are                                                               
sports and  other activities  going on.   More  daylight provides                                                               
increased safety for kids.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1629                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LEIGH DENNISON testified via teleconference  on behalf of herself                                                               
and her husband.  She testified in favor of HB 409.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHARLES  BROBST testified  via teleconference.   He  informed the                                                               
committee  that he  is  the  Chairman and  CEO  of North  Pacific                                                               
Auctioneers Limited.   Mr. Brobst  related his  experience living                                                               
in Indiana, which  does not change to daylight saving  time.  Mr.                                                               
Brobst announced  his support  of staying on  standard time.   He                                                               
noted  that he  also works  for Anchorage  International Airport,                                                               
and  informed  the  committee that  international  flights  don't                                                               
change to daylight saving time.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1728                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOEL  CURTIS  testified  via  teleconference.     He  noted  that                                                               
although  he  is  the  Science and  Operations  Officer  for  the                                                               
National Weather  Service in the  Anchorage Forecast  Office, the                                                               
opinions he will  provide will be his own.   Mr. Curtis turned to                                                               
the concerns  that HB  409 will  hurt commerce  and said  that he                                                               
could  provide numerous  examples of  how changing  time actually                                                               
"throws us off."  For  example, [the National Weather Service] in                                                               
Anchorage  has  some of  the  best  computer programmers  in  the                                                               
nation.   Yet,  every year  these programmers  have to  check the                                                               
computers every  year because of  the change in data  streams due                                                               
to  the  time zones.    Mr.  Curtis  pointed  out that  one  must                                                               
consider  the  lost  wages  and confusion  related  to  the  time                                                               
changes.  Mr. Curtis noted  the current 24/7 environment of today                                                               
and  suggested  that a  business  person  could wake  up  earlier                                                               
rather than  a child going to  school in the dark  in Unalaska or                                                               
Nome.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1828                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LYNN WILLIS testified via teleconference.   He indicated that the                                                               
committee packet  should include  a copy of  his testimony.   Mr.                                                               
Willis  echoed earlier  testimony  regarding the  fact that  when                                                               
Alaska's time  zones were combined  in 1983,  the time of  day no                                                               
longer matched the  location of the sun, which  is exacerbated by                                                               
daylight saving  time.  For  example, under daylight  saving time                                                               
in Anchorage and Fairbanks the sun  is highest at about 2:00 p.m.                                                               
rather  than noon.   He  related the  difficulties Alaskans  face                                                               
when changing to  daylight saving time.  Mr.  Willis informed the                                                               
committee   that  daylight   is   gained  naturally.     In   the                                                               
Southcentral  area,  between April  7th  and  17th of  this  year                                                               
approximately 59 minutes  of daylight will be gained  and thus he                                                               
suggested waiting for that time to gain the hour.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WILLIS discussed  the 24/7 connectedness of our  society.  He                                                               
clarified that moving  an area on or off daylight  saving time is                                                               
accomplished by  the state and  Alaska wouldn't be  changing time                                                               
zones, which would  require federal action.  The  few benefits of                                                               
[daylight saving time]  shouldn't be forced on  the majority [who                                                               
want  to eliminate  daylight saving  time].   In conclusion,  Mr.                                                               
Willis announced his support of HB 409.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1918                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BOB  WOLVINGTON testified  via teleconference.   He  informed the                                                               
committee that he is an air  traffic controller.  He said that he                                                               
supported  HB 409  and stressed  that [the  Eagle River/Anchorage                                                               
area] is already one hour  advanced of its true geographical time                                                               
zone.  With regard to the  notion that the Southeast Panhandle is                                                               
sacrificing  to compromise  for [the  Interior], the  majority of                                                               
the population of Alaska is  sacrificing to meet Southeast's time                                                               
zone.  Mr.  Wolvington related his belief that  there wouldn't be                                                               
any economic detriment to staying on standard time.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1973                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOANN JACKINSKY  testified via  teleconference in  strong support                                                               
of  HB 409.   Ms.  Jackinsky  informed the  committee that  those                                                               
teenagers living in  Fairbanks, Kenai, and Anchorage  who wake at                                                               
6:00 a.m.  per the  clock are  actually waking  at 4:00  a.m. per                                                               
their body clock.  She related  her belief that such was entirely                                                               
too  early to  be expected  to go  to school  and function.   She                                                               
informed the  committee of the  circadian clock and  its relation                                                               
to [sleep problems]  of teenagers.  She noted  that the committee                                                               
packet  should include  the pamphlet  from  the Anchorage  School                                                               
District, which includes the facts  [related to sleep patterns of                                                               
teenagers]  and studies  from  which they  came.   Ms.  Jackinsky                                                               
pointed  out that  there  are 600  licensed  stockbrokers in  the                                                               
state, which  is one-tenth of  1 percent of  Alaska's population.                                                               
"The  other  99.9 percent  of  us,  including our  children,  are                                                               
forced  into  a  clock-based  system   which  works  against  our                                                               
biological  clocks," she  explained.    Therefore, she  requested                                                               
that the committee pass this bill on.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI, upon  determining that there was no  one else to                                                               
testify, closed public  testimony.  She turned  the discussion to                                                               
the committee.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2085                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  remarked that  this is a  policy call.   He                                                               
said he  hasn't heard enough of  the history as to  why this bill                                                               
hasn't passed in the past to not support it.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI noted that today's  testimony was about 50:50 for                                                               
and against.   She noted her  surprise that people focus  on this                                                               
matter   when  there   are  such   weighty   issues  before   the                                                               
legislature.  However, it has  been mentioned that this issue has                                                               
been bothering folks for many years.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2174                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG noted  that  the debate  about time  has                                                               
been going on  in Alaska since before the capital  was moved from                                                               
Sitka  to Juneau.    Over  the state's  history  there have  been                                                               
numerous  time changes.   With  an area  that geographically  has                                                               
four  time  zones,  Representative Rokeberg  predicted  that  the                                                               
debate over  time will continue.   He acknowledged that  for much                                                               
of its  history Southeast Alaska  has been Pacific  standard time                                                               
and the daylight saving time impacts them the most.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO expressed the  importance of realizing that                                                               
changing clocks only  occurs twice a year and for  only one hour.                                                               
With  regard to  the  impact on  business, Representative  Halcro                                                               
said that  his rental car  business is a perfect  example because                                                               
the  headquarters are  located  in  Garden City,  New  York.   If                                                               
daylight  saving time  was not  observed, his  business would  be                                                               
five hours  behind.  With  regard to the difficulties  this would                                                               
create for those traveling, Representative  Halcro didn't see how                                                               
hard it would  be for the human body to  [transition] for an hour                                                               
change.   Furthermore, the  change occurs  on Saturday  night and                                                               
thus a  person has Sunday  to transition.  Also,  daylight saving                                                               
time is used to promote  checking things such as smoke detectors.                                                               
Representative  Halcro   related  his  belief   that  eliminating                                                               
daylight saving time does create impacts on commerce.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked if the  "chamber" has taken a position                                                               
on this matter.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG related  his belief that in  the past the                                                               
State Chamber of Commerce has taken a negative position on this.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HELEN DONAHUE,  Staff to  Representative Ken  Lancaster, informed                                                               
the committee that no response has been received.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-52, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  remarked  that he  isn't  so  concerned                                                               
about what time  zone Alaska is in, although  changing time twice                                                               
a  year  is  [difficult].    Representative  Crawford  said  that                                                               
changing Alaska's  time zone to  Alaska daylight saving  time for                                                               
all year  would be fine  with him  because it would  bring Alaska                                                               
closer to the business hours of the Lower 48.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI related her understanding  that the state's don't                                                               
have  the  option  suggested by  Representative  Crawford.    The                                                               
states can either opt in or out of daylight saving time.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD recalled  that all  the time  zones were                                                               
changed  in Alaska  15-20 years  ago, save  Yakutat.   Therefore,                                                               
there must be a way.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. DONAHUE echoed  earlier testimony that a change  in time zone                                                               
would have  to be implemented  by Congress,  a state can't  do so                                                               
with  state legislation.   She  said her  understanding was  that                                                               
Congress would have to approve such a change.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. POOR interjected that when  Alaska did change its time zones,                                                               
the Department of Transportation did so.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  POOR,  in response  to  Chair  Murkowski, pointed  out  that                                                               
Metlakatla  was able  to  change  its time  zone  because it's  a                                                               
reservation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2266                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  related  his  belief  that  this  is  a                                                               
federal  issue.   Whether there  should be  daylight saving  time                                                               
should  apply to  the entire  country uniformly.   Representative                                                               
Rokeberg  noted that  he is  sympathetic to  school children  and                                                               
pointed out  that in Anchorage  it has been determined  that it's                                                               
not   appropriate   to   start   high   school   at   7:30   a.m.                                                               
Representative Rokeberg stressed  the need for Alaska  to be part                                                               
of the United States.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  said that  he envisioned Alaska  being more                                                               
like Hawaii, which  doesn't change to daylight  saving time, than                                                               
the  rest of  the  Lower 48.   Somehow  those  states that  don't                                                               
change  to  daylight  saving  time  seem  to  manage  fine.    He                                                               
expressed  curiosity  with regard  to  why  Hawaii, Arizona,  and                                                               
parts of Indiana haven't changed to daylight saving time.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LANCASTER  said  he believes  that  those  states                                                               
haven't  changed to  daylight saving  time for  the same  reasons                                                               
proposed  here  in  Alaska.   In  response  to  Chair  Murkowski,                                                               
Representative  Lancaster  confirmed  that  changing  to  Pacific                                                               
standard time would have to be done at the congressional level.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  informed the committee that  changing to Pacific                                                               
standard time requires sending a  petition to the U.S. Department                                                               
of Transportation.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  reiterated  his belief  that  the  best                                                               
solution  would be  for Alaska  to be  on Alaska  daylight saving                                                               
time  all  year  and  if  it requires  a  petition  to  the  U.S.                                                               
Department of Transportation, then so be it.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2019                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER moved  to report  HB 409  out of  committee                                                               
with individual recommendations and  the accompanying zero fiscal                                                               
note.   There being no  objection, HB  409 was reported  from the                                                               
House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HB 277-SELF-STORAGE FACILITY LIENS                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 277,  "An Act relating  to liens by  owners of                                                               
self-storage  facilities;  distinguishing  self-storage  facility                                                               
liens  from another  type of  storage lien;  and excluding  self-                                                               
storage liens from the treatment of certain unclaimed property."                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1958                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN  DAVIES, Alaska State  Legislature, testified                                                               
as the  sponsor of  HB 277.   Representative Davies  informed the                                                               
committee that the bill has received  a fair amount of comment to                                                               
which  he has  responded  via the  proposed committee  substitute                                                               
(CS).  The CS addresses all the concerns raised to date.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1973                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO   moved  to  adopt   Version  22-LS0175\L,                                                               
Bannister,  4/5/02, as  the  working document.    There being  no                                                               
objection, Version L was before the committee.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES  noted that  an  owner  of a  self-storage                                                               
facility  brought forth  this  issue.   The  problem arises  when                                                               
someone fails  to make payment  or leaves  town and the  owner of                                                               
the facility  ends up having a  storage unit with full  of stuff.                                                               
Existing statute requires that the  facility owner dispose of the                                                               
material at a  public auction, which the  facility operators have                                                               
found to  be inconvenient.   Once it's  determined that  the bill                                                               
isn't  going to  be paid,  it  can take  six to  eight months  to                                                               
coordinate an auction.  During  that time, the facility owner has                                                               
to keep the  material safe and thus, it generally  means that one                                                               
of  the   storage  units   is  in  use   and  can't   be  rented.                                                               
Therefore,  this legislation  proposes  changing the  requirement                                                               
such that the  facility owner can dispose of the  material in the                                                               
manner of their  choice.  The bill does  include some protections                                                               
in that  the proceeds from the  disposal of the material  must be                                                               
held for  a year so  that the  individual who owned  the material                                                               
could apply for  the proceeds of the sale of  the material in the                                                               
storage unit minus the cost of disposal.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES explained  that Version  L clarifies  that                                                               
the statute  of the residential  Landlord and Tenant  Act doesn't                                                               
apply in  these situations.   The CS  also clarifies that  if the                                                               
rental charges are unpaid for  four days, then the facility owner                                                               
may place an over lock on the unit  and hold it until the rent is                                                               
paid.    If the  rental  charges  are  unpaid  for 60  days,  the                                                               
facility  owner may  take possession  of  the personal  property.                                                               
There was  objection to  the language requiring  the name  of the                                                               
facility owner  to be  included in  the mailed  notification, and                                                               
therefore  that  was  removed.     If  there  is  more  than  one                                                               
delinquent  unit at  a  time, a  single  publication can  include                                                               
several  delinquent  units.     Section  34.35.649  includes  the                                                               
definitions  of  facility  owner,   rental  agreement,  and  unit                                                               
renter.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1762                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO informed the  committee that the two places                                                               
he  has contacted  in Juneau  require a  security deposit,  which                                                               
means that the  facility owner receives one month's  [rent] for a                                                               
security deposit.   Instead of  utilizing the  security deposits,                                                               
the legislation specifies  that after four days the  locks can be                                                               
changed.    In  Section   34.35.600(c)  the  legislation  further                                                               
specifies  that "a  facility owner  is  not required  to apply  a                                                               
security deposit received by the  facility owner to the reduction                                                               
of  the  rental  charges  when  determining  whether  the  rental                                                               
charges  have  been  paid  when  due."   He  questioned  why  the                                                               
language wouldn't  specify that  the security deposit  be applied                                                               
until it has been liquidated at  which time the locks on the unit                                                               
could be changed.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES  related  his   belief  that  the  current                                                               
practice is to  change the locks after there has  been no payment                                                               
for three  to four  days.   Although he said  he wouldn't  have a                                                               
problem with  [Representative Halcro's suggestion],  he suspected                                                               
that the facility owners probably would.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1623                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
AMY  KAUFMAN,  Staff  to   Representative  Davies,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, testified  on behalf of Representative  Davies.  Ms.                                                               
Kaufman  related her  understanding that  typically the  security                                                               
deposit is used  to cover how the unit is  left [upon termination                                                               
of  the  agreement].    She  acknowledged  that  various  storage                                                               
facilities  could have  different agreements  with regard  to the                                                               
security deposit.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  directed attention to the  definition of "amount                                                               
owed" in  Version L.   She related  her belief that  the security                                                               
deposit should  be used to offset  the amount owed once  the lien                                                               
on the personal property is eliminated, at the end of the day.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES noted his  agreement.  However, with regard                                                               
to changing the  locks after four days, he said  that would still                                                               
be the preference.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO  expressed  concern  with  the  timelines,                                                               
especially for those  in the military.  He said  that there seems                                                               
to be  little protection for  those who might be  suddenly called                                                               
away.   Upon hearing  from the  audience that  military personnel                                                               
are covered  under federal law, Representative  Halcro questioned                                                               
whether  that  [exemption  for   military  personnel]  should  be                                                               
specified in the legislation.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES said  that  he wasn't  sure  that in  fact                                                               
[military  personnel  are  exempt  per  the  federal  law].    He                                                               
explained  that  the  legislation attempts  to  clarify  existing                                                               
state   statute   and   change   the   mechanism   of   disposal.                                                               
Representative  Davies remarked  that even  if someone  is called                                                               
away   [for  military   purposes],  that   individual  is   still                                                               
responsible  for their  affairs.   Furthermore,  a valid  mailing                                                               
address is required,  which would be utilized  with the certified                                                               
mail  notification.     Therefore,  maintaining  normal  business                                                               
practices, such as a current address, would avoid problems.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1465                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI pointed out that  the definition of "amount owed"                                                               
includes  personnel and  administrative  costs,  which is  fairly                                                               
broad term.  She asked if there  is a way in which to define what                                                               
is included in personnel and administrative costs.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. KAUFMAN said that hasn't been addressed.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES commented that  the normal remedy for those                                                               
charges  viewed to  be  unreasonable  is to  go  to civil  court.                                                               
Representative Davies related his  belief that when an individual                                                               
enters into  an agreement to rent  a storage unit, the  terms and                                                               
conditions  should   be  specified   in  the   rental  agreement.                                                               
Perhaps,  this  aspect of  state  law  could  be required  to  be                                                               
included in the rental agreement.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI turned  to Section  34.25.640  on page  4.   She                                                               
related  her understanding  that  when a  lien  is satisfied,  an                                                               
acknowledgement of satisfaction has to be provided.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES   said  that  he  wasn't   sure  when  the                                                               
aforementioned  requirement arose,  and therefore  he offered  to                                                               
look into it.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1315                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KOTT   returned    to   the   certified   letter                                                               
[requirement].   He posed a  situation in which an  individual is                                                               
receiving  medical   treatment  out-of-state  for   four  months.                                                               
Although   the  certified   letter   could  have   went  to   the                                                               
individual's house, someone  else could've signed for  it and the                                                               
individual never  saw the letter.   Representative Kott  asked if                                                               
there  is  another  way  to deliver  notice  such  as  restricted                                                               
delivery,  which means  that the  individual  with the  agreement                                                               
would actually be the individual who signs the delivery receipt.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES pointed  out  that requiring  more than  a                                                               
certified  letter  would provide  no  recourse  if an  individual                                                               
dodges  the receipt  of the  letter  or doesn't  specify a  valid                                                               
address.  In  existing statute, if an individual  doesn't pay the                                                               
rent for  their unit  for three months,  the material  inside the                                                               
unit is auctioned.   Although the details are  being changed, the                                                               
principles  and timelines  aren't  being changed  too  much.   In                                                               
response  to Chair  Murkowski,  Representative  Davies said  that                                                               
Section 34.35.175(b)  specifies that the facility  owner may sell                                                               
the  articles in  the unit  at a  public auction  if the  charges                                                               
aren't paid  within three months.   Representative Davies related                                                               
his belief that  there are some noticing  [requirements] that are                                                               
included within the three months.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1156                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT  inquired  as  to the  protections  for  the                                                               
renter with regard to ensuring  that the facility owner sells the                                                               
items  within the  unit  for  a reasonable  price.    He posed  a                                                               
situation in which one of the  articles left in a storage unit is                                                               
a portrait  worth $1,000 and it's  given away.  The  renter would                                                               
still be liable  for the back payments  and administrative costs,                                                               
and the  renter's goods  have been  sold.   He surmised  that the                                                               
renter had no recourse.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES  replied yes.   Under the  present statute,                                                               
the only recourse  is the auctioning of the items  in the storage                                                               
unit.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT   interjected  that  the   auctioneer  would                                                               
attempt to obtain the best amount possible.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES  said that  an auction  can still  be done;                                                               
it's one of many options.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  KAUFMAN pointed  out that  most [owners]  are attempting  to                                                               
recover lost costs  and thus chances are that  the [owners] would                                                               
want to recover those costs.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1047                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT informed the committee  that he has a storage                                                               
unit in  Juneau that  costs $45  a month.   In  that unit  he has                                                               
about $10,000 worth  of equipment.  If he falls  into arrears for                                                               
three months,  the owner could  attempt to recover the  costs for                                                               
the  last  three  months  by  selling  the  equipment  for  $500.                                                               
Representative Kott said that is a potential situation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES  indicated agreement.  He  pointed out that                                                               
an individual  with a  storage unit  containing $10,000  worth of                                                               
stuff  should  be  responsible and  have  a  forwarding  address.                                                               
Representative   Davies   said   he    wasn't   sure   for   whom                                                               
Representative Kott was concerned.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT  remarked  that  there  is  nothing  in  the                                                               
legislation that  ensures fair  market value  for whatever  is in                                                               
the storage unit.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN MURKOWSKI directed  attention to page 3,  line 26, which                                                               
reads  as follows:   "(b)  If the  property subject  to the  lien                                                               
appears to be  salable, the facility owner shall  attempt to sell                                                               
the property.  If the facility  owner cannot sell the property or                                                               
if the property appears to  have little value, the facility owner                                                               
may sell, give away, or throw away the property."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT noted  that  his equipment  is probably  not                                                               
salable in this city.   Yet, it could be given  away and he would                                                               
still be responsible for the back rent, et cetera.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES  pointed out  that  if  the equipment  was                                                               
given  away, there  is no  need to  pay.   He specified  that the                                                               
equipment would only be given  away because there was no response                                                               
to a letter noting that the rent was due.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  said  that the  question  then  becomes                                                               
whether giving  away the items  stored in the unit  would satisfy                                                               
the lien if the owner hasn't recovered enough money.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES replied yes.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI surmised  then that when a lien  is satisfied the                                                               
facility owner  should be required  to submit  an acknowledgement                                                               
of satisfaction.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG   pointed  out   that  nothing   in  the                                                               
legislation seeks  to maximize  the recovery.   There could  be a                                                               
situation  in  which  the value  of  the  property  significantly                                                               
exceeds the rent.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  DAVIES  mentioned the  good  faith  clause.   The                                                               
problem is  that there is a  lot of different property  housed in                                                               
storage  units, some  of  which is  junk and  some  of which  are                                                               
hidden  heirlooms.   If  there is  [too  much specificity],  it's                                                               
going  to be  difficult for  facility  owners to  dispose of  the                                                               
property.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0756                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
GRANT    CARLIN,    Self-Storage    Operator,    testified    via                                                               
teleconference in  support of  HB 277.   Mr. Carlin  informed the                                                               
committee that  storage facility  operators would  rather receive                                                               
rent,  and  therefore  they do  everything  possible  to  contact                                                               
delinquent  tenants  in  an  attempt to  avoid  disposal  of  the                                                               
property.  A home telephone  number, a work telephone number, and                                                               
emergency contacts are  all required.  He noted that  he has even                                                               
gone  through  units  in  an   attempt  to  find  an  address  of                                                               
relatives.   Often, tenants move  without providing  a forwarding                                                               
address  or  phone contacts  and  the  emergency contacts  aren't                                                               
reachable.    Therefore, the  facility  owner  is left  with  the                                                               
burden  of  disposing  of  the   property,  which  is  frequently                                                               
worthless.    With  regard  to changing  the  locks,  Mr.  Carlin                                                               
clarified that no  locks are changed but rather a  double lock is                                                               
utilized.   The  security  deposit collected  in Fairbanks  isn't                                                               
equivalent to a month's rent.   He informed the committee that in                                                               
Fairbanks's the security deposits range from $15 to $30.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARLIN  recalled that the administrative  process was brought                                                               
up.    He  explained  that the  administrative  process  includes                                                               
things  such  as  running  a  newspaper  advertisement,  drafting                                                               
notices, making  copies, and office  filing.  If  the legislation                                                               
is amended to  require a satisfaction of lien  document, the time                                                               
and  work   involved  with   that  would   be  included   in  the                                                               
administrative costs.   Presently, in Alaska there  is no statute                                                               
that  addresses mini-storage  or  self-storage  facilities.   The                                                               
language in Chapter 45, Unclaimed  Property, is an antiquated law                                                               
that really deals with forwarding  merchants, wharf and warehouse                                                               
operators, and  tavern keepers.   The self-storage industry  is a                                                               
relatively  new industry  that  has  come about  in  the last  25                                                               
years.     The  Unclaimed  Property  statute   involves  judicial                                                               
proceedings and  action by  peace officers,  which would  be cost                                                               
prohibitive and impossible with which to comply.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARLIN  noted that another  possibly relevant statute  may be                                                               
the Improvement Lien  on Personal Property.   However, he related                                                               
his  belief  that the  aforementioned  statute  doesn't apply  to                                                               
self-storage units  because there is  no improvement done  to the                                                               
property.    Without  any legislative  guidelines,  the  facility                                                               
operator  is  at  risk  for lawsuits  without  any  authority  to                                                               
dispose of  a tenant's property.   Additionally, HB  277 provides                                                               
steps  for  notification  for  delinquent  tenants,  which  would                                                               
standardize  the procedures  for  all  self-storage operators  in                                                               
Alaska.    Hopefully,  this  would  provide  a  degree  of  legal                                                               
protection.  Also, this legislation  serves the delinquent tenant                                                               
better  than the  current  situation.   [Currently]  there is  no                                                               
requirement of  notification that the tenant's  property is being                                                               
disposed of, which would be  required under HB 277.  Furthermore,                                                               
HB  277 requires  notification of  disposal of  property via  the                                                               
mail  as  well  as  broad  newspaper  notification.    For  these                                                               
reasons,  Mr. Carlin  encouraged the  committee's support  of the                                                               
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0479                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES  requested that  Mr. Carlin comment  on the                                                               
release of  recorded liens  under the  current situation  and the                                                               
concern with being required to provide the release.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CARLIN informed  the  committee  that he  has  only had  one                                                               
tenant request  a satisfaction of  lien.  Due to  the infrequency                                                               
of this, it  isn't a major issue, he said.   The [satisfaction of                                                               
lien] isn't a  great burden; it requires going  to the recorder's                                                               
office and filling out paperwork that is mailed to the tenant.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  CARLIN, in  response to  Representative Rokeberg,  confirmed                                                               
that most  of what is unclaimed  doesn't have any real  value and                                                               
ends  up   going  to   a  charity.     In  further   response  to                                                               
Representative Rokeberg,  Mr. Carlin stated  that he has  been in                                                               
business since 1984.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG   asked  if  Mr.  Carlin   has  had  any                                                               
experience with tenants who are part of the military.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARLIN  replied yes,  and informed  the committee  that about                                                               
one-third  of his  customers are  military.   In his  experience,                                                               
military folks usually know in  advance when they're going out on                                                               
maneuvers and  thus they pay in  advance.  He noted  that he does                                                               
what is possible  to accommodate military customers,  and he even                                                               
offers   military  customers   a  discount.     In   response  to                                                               
Representative Rokeberg, Mr.  Carlin said that he  hasn't had any                                                               
problems with his military tenants.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARLIN,  in response to  Chair Murkowski, specified  that the                                                               
costs at his facility would  be fairly representative of those in                                                               
Fairbanks.  He  informed the committee that his  smallest unit is                                                               
$27 a  month, a medium-sized unit  is about $60 a  month, and the                                                               
[largest] size  would run about $95  a month.  He  confirmed that                                                               
he requires  a $15 security deposit  so that he wouldn't  have to                                                               
face the  cleaning [costs] for  things that a tenant  decided not                                                               
to  move.   Therefore,  the  security  deposit is  essentially  a                                                               
cleaning deposit that  is returned if the unit is  vacated in the                                                               
same state in which it was rented.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0245                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  asked if the  delinquent tenants with  which Mr.                                                               
Carlin has had experience were delinquent for many months.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CARLIN answered  that in the past he has  held properties for                                                               
six  months to  a  year, sometimes  because  the weather  doesn't                                                               
allow for disposal.   Mr. Carlin related  that frequently tenants                                                               
abandon their  property because the  property being  stored isn't                                                               
worth the value of the rent owed.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0078                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHARLES  BROBST, President  and  CEO,  North Pacific  Auctioneers                                                               
Limited, testified  via teleconference.  Mr.  Brobst informed the                                                               
committee that  for a five  to six  year period, his  company did                                                               
over 90 percent  of the storage auctions in Anchorage.   With the                                                               
changes  to  the  code,  the  interest  of  the  renter  and  the                                                               
warehouse must  be kept  in mind  equally.   Section 34.35.600(b)                                                               
provides  the owner  the ability  to  have some  leverage on  the                                                               
renter.   However,  when the  unit is  over locked,  the facility                                                               
owner should send a registered  letter, return receipt requested,                                                               
to the renter stating that the renter is in arrears ...                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-53, SIDE A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BROBST   turned  to  Section  34.35.610(b)(2)   and  Section                                                               
34.35.620 require publication  of notice one time  in a newspaper                                                               
of general circulation.   He stressed that one  time isn't enough                                                               
notice.   He suggested publishing  the notice  once a week  for a                                                               
two  week period  in a  newspaper of  general circulation  in the                                                               
town where  the storage facility  is located.   If there  isn't a                                                               
newspaper  of  general  circulation, Mr.  Brobst  suggested  four                                                               
notices posted  in a public  location one  of which would  be the                                                               
post  office serving  the area  and the  other being  the storage                                                               
facility  itself and  then  two other  general  locations.   This                                                               
notification  should give  the date,  time, and  location of  the                                                               
sale and also the amount  owed plus reasonable disposal costs and                                                               
related fees.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0127                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROBST moved on to  Section 34.35.630 and characterized it as                                                               
a  license for  the facility  owner to  steal.   When a  facility                                                               
owner takes possession  of the property, he  questioned who would                                                               
determine  whether   the  property   is  salable   or  not.     A                                                               
disinterested  third party,  such  as a  certified auctioneer  or                                                               
certified    appraiser,    should   make    the    aforementioned                                                               
determination.  Although having  a disinterested third party make                                                               
the aforementioned  determination will  be an additional  cost, a                                                               
good sale [will  allow the facility owner] to  recover that cost.                                                               
Mr. Brobst informed the committee  that he has had [the property]                                                               
in units  bring as little  as $5 and up  to $28,000.   He related                                                               
the various  types of property  he has  found in units  that fell                                                               
into delinquency.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BROBST  specified that  when  the  over  lock is  done,  the                                                               
notification  should begin  with a  registered letter  specifying                                                               
that the  property will  be sold.   When the  60 days  have past,                                                               
provide [the renter]  a date, time, and place  where the property                                                               
will be sold.  If the  property isn't sold on the specified date,                                                               
time,  and  place,  then  the  process should  start  over.    He                                                               
emphasized that  too many  of the  auctions in  Anchorage specify                                                               
that the  auction will occur "on  or after" a certain  date.  Mr.                                                               
Brobst  said that  he  attempts  to return  all  of the  personal                                                               
papers  and  photographs  of  the  [delinquent  renter]  via  the                                                               
facility owner.   Furthermore, these  individuals are  allowed to                                                               
purchase their items at the  auction.  Mr. Brobst also emphasized                                                               
the  need for  the property  to be  sold at  the location  of the                                                               
storage facility.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BROBST  mentioned  that sometimes  facility  owners  take  a                                                               
partial payment  and don't apply it  to the bill but  rather hold                                                               
the  partial payment  until the  property is  sold in  hopes that                                                               
there will  be enough to  cover the bill.   Mr. Brobst  said that                                                               
when a partial payment is  taken, the facility owner should start                                                               
the  notification procedure.    Personally,  Mr. Brobst  stressed                                                               
that a  partial payment  shouldn't be  taken unless  the facility                                                               
owner  knows that  the individual  is  acting in  good faith  and                                                               
attempting to get  caught up because after 30  days an individual                                                               
is  too  far  behind to  get  caught  up.    With regard  to  the                                                               
[facility  owner]  not  following   the  procedures,  Mr.  Brobst                                                               
related  his feeling  that  the [facility  owner]  should face  a                                                               
felony and the  facility owner and manager  and auctioneer should                                                               
be held liable.  He noted  that there are some storage facilities                                                               
in the area  that he won't do auctioneering for  because of their                                                               
improper notification.   Mr. Brobst concluded by  offering to fax                                                               
the remainder of his testimony to the committee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0556                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROBST, in response to  Representative Rokeberg, said that an                                                               
outcry  auction isn't  required currently,  although in  order to                                                               
obtain the "best bang for your  buck" one would perform an outcry                                                               
auction.   Without a disinterested  third party  [determining the                                                               
salability of  the property], the  legislation opens  the process                                                               
up for  abuse by  unscrupulous managers.   Mr.  Brobst reiterated                                                               
that  an  auctioneer  or certified  personal  property  appraiser                                                               
would  be an  appropriate  disinterested third  party.   He  also                                                               
reiterated the need for "falsification" to be a felony.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG pointed  out that  although some  of the                                                               
smaller  communities might  be  large enough  to  have a  storage                                                               
facility, the community might not  have auctioneers or appraisers                                                               
available.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROBST  suggested that a  magistrate, notary public,  or some                                                               
other  prominent official  in the  town could  possibly determine                                                               
the value of property.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0754                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
STEVE  CONN (ph)  testified  via teleconference.    He noted  his                                                               
agreement with  Mr. Brobst.  Mr.  Conn said this would  be a poor                                                               
time to  weaken the present law.   He agreed with  the suggestion                                                               
for a registered  letter [of notification].  He  also agreed that                                                               
a  disinterested  party  other  than  a  certified  appraiser  or                                                               
auctioneer could  sign-off in  order to ensure  value.   Mr. Conn                                                               
expressed  the  need   for  the  committee  to   think  of  their                                                               
constituents  who, in  times of  need and  crisis, use  a storage                                                               
facility and may well lose track.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0861                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS HARRIS  addressed the question  regarding what  happens to                                                               
the property  of individuals in  the military when  their absence                                                               
is due  to overseas duty.   Mr. Harris  recalled that there  is a                                                               
federal law  called the Soldiers  and Citizens Relief  Act, which                                                               
prohibits  seizures of  property with  liens and  foreclosures on                                                               
mortgages while someone is stationed overseas in the military.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  recalled that shortly  after the  September 11th                                                               
tragedy, relief was given to those in the active military.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HARRIS  informed the committee  that almost every  time folks                                                               
are  called for  active duty  with the  National Guard,  there is                                                               
almost  always   a  news  release   reminding  everyone   of  the                                                               
[prohibition of seizures of property  with liens and foreclosures                                                               
on mortgages].                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0947                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  asked if Section 34.25.630(c)  is already in                                                               
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES  replied no and  pointed out that  there is                                                               
no statute that applies directly to this circumstance.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  questioned why  one would  want to  make the                                                               
facility  owner  the  beneficiary  of  any  excess  money.    For                                                               
instance, excess  money from  disposal of  property at  the state                                                               
level is forwarded to the Department of Treasury.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE DAVIES  related his interpretation of  the current                                                               
statute that  the facility owner  can sell the property  and keep                                                               
the proceeds.   He explained  that current statutes say  that the                                                               
proceeds of  the sale  are applied  to pay  the expenses,  to the                                                               
discharge  of the  lien,  and the  balance to  the  owner of  the                                                               
article, in  that order.   There doesn't  seem to be  a provision                                                               
with regard to what happens when the owner can't be found.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI noted that she  has identified several areas that                                                               
need  work, and  therefore she  announced  that HB  277 would  be                                                               
assigned to  a subcommittee.   She announced  that Representative                                                               
Halcro  would be  the Chair  and  she as  well as  Representative                                                               
Hayes would be members of the subcommittee.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BROBST,  in response  to  Representative  Halcro, agreed  to                                                               
forward his suggestions to the subcommittee.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
[HB 277 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 448-TELEMARKETERS PHONE LISTS/REGISTRATION                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 448, "An  Act relating to establishing  a data                                                               
base  of  residential telephone  customers  who  do not  wish  to                                                               
receive telephone solicitations, providing  that the data base be                                                               
compiled  at  no  cost  to  the  customers,  requiring  telephone                                                               
solicitors  to  purchase  the  data   base,  and  requiring  paid                                                               
solicitors to register; and providing for an effective date."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI also  announced that it was not  her intention to                                                               
move HB 448 from committee today.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1244                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  moved to adopt 22-LS1407\L,  Craver, 4/8/02,                                                               
as the  working document.   There being  no objection,  Version L                                                               
was before the committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD,  testifying as the sponsor,  related his                                                               
belief  that  there  is  consensus that  the  present  law  isn't                                                               
working properly because it isn't  well publicized.  He explained                                                               
that under  current law the  consumer is charged  to be on  a do-                                                               
not-call list.   This legislation would transfer the  cost to the                                                               
telemarketers.   Representative Crawford pointed out  that having                                                               
a single list would make it  easier for the telemarketers and for                                                               
enforcement when  telemarketers call folks listed  on the do-not-                                                               
call list.   Representative Crawford concluded  by expressing his                                                               
desire to work with all involved in order to develop a good law.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1361                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CODY  RICE, Intern  for Representative  Joe  Hayes, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, explained  that HB 448 addresses  the following main                                                               
problems:  the  promulgation of the current  statute, the payment                                                               
of service for being included  on the [do-not-call] list, and the                                                               
clarity  of   definitions  and  exemptions.     This  legislation                                                               
modifies the existing statute such  that the burden of paying for                                                               
the do-not-call  list is on the  users of the list,  which is the                                                               
telemarketer.   The legislation  also increases  public awareness                                                               
of the consumer's option to  participate in the do-not-call list.                                                               
Furthermore,  the  legislation  removes  the  loopholes  of  paid                                                               
solicitors operating  under exemptions of organizations  by which                                                               
they are contracted.  Therefore,  better regulation and increased                                                               
revenue results.   Mr. Rice said that HB 448  will return privacy                                                               
to Alaskan homes while clarifying  current law and increasing the                                                               
safety   of  consumers   who  are   the   subject  of   predatory                                                               
telemarketing.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1452                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER  posed  a  situation  in  which  staff  for                                                               
politicians  are being  paid to  make  calls and  asked if  those                                                               
staff would be included in HB 448.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RICE  answered  that  exemptions  already  exist  for  those                                                               
soliciting political  opinions or  thoughts and  those exemptions                                                               
haven't  been changed.   In  further  response to  Representative                                                               
Meyer, Mr.  Rice said  that the  exemptions include  pollsters so                                                               
long  as   they  aren't  soliciting   money.    In   response  to                                                               
Representative  Rokeberg,  Mr.   Rice  specified  that  currently                                                               
politicians are  exempt and would remain  so as long as  they are                                                               
soliciting political  opinions or  campaign funds from  those who                                                               
have expressed  an interest or  have contributed in  the previous                                                               
six months.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER posed  a situation in which  a politician is                                                               
calling to solicit an individual's vote.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICE  said that would  be considered a political  opinion and                                                               
would be exempt.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER remarked  that in  some ways  he felt  that                                                               
this legislation should pertain to politicians.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 1549                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI   posed  a  situation  in   which  a  charitable                                                               
organization is soliciting funds.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICE answered that charitable  organizations will continue to                                                               
have  exempt status  so long  as they  operate under  the current                                                               
exemption  clause.    He explained  that  the  current  exemption                                                               
clause  specifies  that  the charitable  organization  [can  only                                                               
solicit people] who have expressed  previous interest in donating                                                               
funds or have done so within a specified amount of time.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  posed a  situation  in  which  her child  is  a                                                               
participant  in the  Boys &  Girls Club  and she  pays for  their                                                               
soccer fees.   In such  a situation  would it be  appropriate for                                                               
the Boys  & Girls Club to  do a direct financial  solicitation to                                                               
me.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICE responded that he wasn't sure.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  reiterated  that  the  current  statute                                                               
isn't  being  changed.   The  legislation  only places  the  paid                                                               
solicitor under this law.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  surmised then that  it would be  appropriate for                                                               
the financial  director of  the Boys  & Girls  Club to  call her.                                                               
However, if the  club pays for a solicitor, the  club cannot call                                                               
her if she [is on the do-not-call list].                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said he believes that to be correct.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1625                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI turned  to Section 1 of [Version L]  and asked if                                                               
there are  penalties associated to  the violations  [discussed in                                                               
Section 1].                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICE replied yes.  He  directed attention to the Voice of the                                                             
Times article, which specifies that fines can sum up to $5,000.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI asked  if that  would be  the case  because [the                                                               
telemarketer]  has violated  the unfair  trade practices  and the                                                               
penalties are already attached.   The initial drafts don't appear                                                               
to  assess   any  civil   penalties.     In  many   states,  [the                                                               
telemarketer] can  face $500 or $1,000  a call.  She  related her                                                               
belief that there should be some penalties attached.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICE  deferred to the  representative from the  Department of                                                               
Law.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD related  that there  seems to  be fairly                                                               
good consensus  on Sections 1  and 3-7.   However, Section  2 has                                                               
been the subject of some discord,  which he has attempted to work                                                               
through.  If  this legislation is held today, Section  2 could be                                                               
brought  back in  an acceptable  form.   Representative  Crawford                                                               
explained that  [everyone] is working towards  putting this under                                                               
a third-party  contractor rather  than having local  exchanges or                                                               
the attorney  general's office being  responsible for this.   The                                                               
third-party contractor would administer  the do-not-call list and                                                               
the 1-800 number.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1793                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if the  same third party would have                                                               
a  database  of  who  can be  called.    Representative  Rokeberg                                                               
indicated that the legislation doesn't  seem to prohibit anything                                                               
like that.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  said that it seems  that the legislation                                                               
is  encouraging  the establishment  of  a  database of  telephone                                                               
solicitation.    Perhaps that's  why  the  solicitors don't  mind                                                               
paying for it.   He inquired as to how updates  of the list would                                                               
be done.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  RICE  answered  that  many  states  have  updated  the  list                                                               
quarterly.  Mr.  Rice agreed that this list would  make it easier                                                               
for telemarketers  to call  those not  on the  [do-not-call] list                                                               
and it  would make their job  more efficient.  However,  those on                                                               
the [do-not-call]  list have  the option  to be  on the  list for                                                               
free.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG inquired  as to the cost of  being on the                                                               
[do-not-call] list in Anchorage.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD said  that in  Anchorage it  costs about                                                               
$6.50 and  is a one-time  fee.   In response to  Chair Murkowski,                                                               
Representative  Crawford agreed  that the  fee is  dependent upon                                                               
the carrier and he was referring only to Anchorage and ACS.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER pointed out that one could have caller id.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  noted that  [many] of  the telemarketers                                                               
have their id blocked and so no id shows up.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT  informed  the   committee  of  a  new  item                                                               
available to  attach to a  phone that supposedly  eliminates 99.9                                                               
percent of the telemarketing telephone calls.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  explained that the  aforementioned product                                                               
is  based  on  the  idea   that  most  telemarketers  utilize  an                                                               
automated  dialing system  and  when the  recipient  of the  call                                                               
answers the call  is forward to an operator.   When that happens,                                                               
the product sends a signal that disengages the telephone.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1988                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BOB TAYLOR,  Alaska Commission on  Aging, informed  the committee                                                               
that he was  filling in for the Executive Director  of the Alaska                                                               
Commission on Aging.  Mr. Taylor  said he wasn't sure whether the                                                               
commission has  had the  opportunity to take  a firm  position on                                                               
this legislation.   However, all the comments thus  far have been                                                               
that  the   commission  favors  this  type   of  legislation  and                                                               
restrictions on predatory solicitations.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2039                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARIE DARLIN,  AARP, expressed pleasure  that these  hearings are                                                               
taking  place.   Ms. Darlin  announced AARP's  support of  HB 448                                                               
because 50 percent of those  receiving telemarketing calls are to                                                               
seniors who  are often the  ones that  are taken advantage  of by                                                               
telemarketers.   In a  recent survey of  AARP members  in Alaska,                                                               
AARP  members were  asked their  top  priorities for  legislative                                                               
issues.   Of  the seniors  age 50-59,  19 percent  specified that                                                               
consumer fraud  was one of  the prime  concerns.  Of  the seniors                                                               
age 75  and older, 30  percent specified that consumer  fraud was                                                               
one of the  prime concerns.  She  said AARP would like  to see HB                                                               
448 passed  once the  concerns of  the attorney  general's office                                                               
are addressed.   She highlighted that  if HB 448 passes  it won't                                                               
cost the individual to be on the [do-not-call] list.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER asked  if this  legislation should  include                                                               
those running for elected office.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MS. DARLIN said there don't seem  to be too many complaints about                                                               
a  survey that  is political  in nature.   In  fact, seniors  are                                                               
often  very  willing to  provide  their  opinion when  their  are                                                               
surveys.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER surmised  then  that Ms.  Darlin is  saying                                                               
that  most AARP  members wouldn't  mind a  candidate calling  and                                                               
requesting  their   vote  because  the  AARP   member  could  ask                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. DARLIN  reiterated her former answer  and indicated agreement                                                               
that the AARP member would probably ask the candidate questions.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2211                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked if  AARP's support  for HB  448 is                                                               
related to [the belief] that  the "black dot system" [the do-not-                                                               
call list] isn't working.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DARLIN answered  that this  legislation clarifies  a lot  of                                                               
issues.  Also, the legislation  doesn't require the individual to                                                               
pay to be on the [do-not-call] list.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked if Ms. Darlin  feels that Alaskans                                                               
aren't being served by the "black dot system."                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. DARLIN pointed  out that in lots of places  in the state this                                                               
system isn't even  available.  She pointed out  that whether this                                                               
system is available  or not depends upon  an individual's carrier                                                               
as is the case with the fee.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD  informed  the committee  that  Alaska's                                                               
current  "black  dot  list"  includes  about  2  percent  of  the                                                               
telephone  customers in  the state.   The  average in  the states                                                               
that  do this  is 10-20  percent.   Therefore, it  seems that  it                                                               
isn't  being utilized  [in Alaska].    Most of  the other  states                                                               
charge the telemarketers  rather than the consumers.   Having the                                                               
consumers pay to  be on this list  is a barrier, he  related.  He                                                               
noted that the  cost to be on the list  ranges from $6.50-$12.50.                                                               
There is  even a telemarketer that  has approval to charge  up to                                                               
$50.   Currently,  many of  the  telemarketers utilize  computer-                                                               
generated  lists   on  which  the  black   dot  isn't  specified.                                                               
Therefore,  many people  on the  "black dot  list" receive  calls                                                               
from  telemarketers.    This legislation  attempts  to  create  a                                                               
centralized list for the entire state.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DARLIN interjected  that AARP  members  have mentioned  that                                                               
they have paid  to be on the "black dot  list," but still receive                                                               
calls.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-53, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2338                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS HARRIS informed the committee  that he isn't on the "black                                                               
dot  list" because  he was  opposed  to paying  for it.   No  one                                                               
should  have to  pay  for  the privilege  of  having an  unlisted                                                               
telephone number.   Furthermore, he didn't  believe anyone should                                                               
have to  pay for telemarketers  to not call  him.  For  what this                                                               
legislation  does  in  that  vein,   he  was  much  appreciative.                                                               
However, he expressed concern that  on the state's web page, only                                                               
six solicitors are  listed under the current law.   Therefore, he                                                               
surmised that many  of the people calling from  outside the state                                                               
aren't following  Alaska's law.   He informed the  committee that                                                               
under  the federal  "Junk  Fax"  law there  is  a provision  that                                                               
allows people who receive junk faxes  to go to small claims court                                                               
and obtain a  judgment against the person who sent  the junk fax.                                                               
He expressed  the need for the  same type of provision  in HB 448                                                               
so that consumers  won't have to depend upon the  government or a                                                               
government contractor  to enforce this.   Under the  federal law,                                                               
if an  individual has  informed someone to  place him/her  on the                                                               
do-not-call    list   and    the    calls    continue   or    the                                                               
person/organization  can't send  the individual  a copy  of their                                                               
do-not-call  policy the  individual can  take them  to court.   A                                                               
parallel provision in state law would be useful, he said.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR.   HARRIS    expressed   concern   with   the    elderly   and                                                               
[telemarketers].  However,  he related his belief  that the First                                                               
Amendment protects  the rights  of politicians  who want  to make                                                               
these calls.   He informed the committee that  people who solicit                                                               
money from  him via the  telephone generally don't  receive money                                                               
from  him permanently.   Mr.  Harris said  that he  believes this                                                               
legislation is necessary  because he doesn't want to  have to pay                                                               
for the black  dot next to his  name in the telephone  book.  Mr.                                                               
Harris  informed  the  committee   that  most  telemarketers  use                                                               
predictive  dialers  and  block  their  caller  id  as  does  he.                                                               
However,   he    suggested   that   this    legislation   require                                                               
telemarketers to unblock  their caller id so that there  is a way                                                               
to record  the number and  have it  traced [so that  the consumer                                                               
can]  keep  a  record  of  their  calls.    Mr.  Harris  directed                                                               
attention  to  a recent  Washington  Post  article in  which  Ms.                                                             
Manners noted her  support of a national  do-not-call list, which                                                               
the  Federal  Trade Commission  is  accepting  comments on  until                                                               
April  15th.    He  discussed how  the  device  that  disconnects                                                               
telemarketers works in more depth.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CRAWFORD informed  the committee  that there  are                                                               
over 16 local exchanges that  provide separate "black dot lists."                                                               
Many local exchanges  don't sell their "black dot  list" and thus                                                               
the telemarketer has to go through the telephone book.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2080                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  turned to Section  2 and inquired as  to why                                                               
business owners  weren't included in  this.  In other  words, why                                                               
was this  legislation limited  to residential  telephone numbers,                                                               
he asked.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
[HB 448 was held over.]                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Labor and Commerce Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at                                                                  
6:00 p.m.                                                                                                                       

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