Legislature(2001 - 2002)

03/04/2002 03:20 PM L&C

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
          HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                         
                         March 4, 2002                                                                                          
                           3:20 p.m.                                                                                            
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
Representative Lisa Murkowski, Chair                                                                                            
Representative Andrew Halcro, Vice Chair                                                                                        
Representative Kevin Meyer                                                                                                      
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Harry Crawford                                                                                                   
Representative Joe Hayes                                                                                                        
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
HOUSE BILL NO. 418                                                                                                              
"An Act  amending the Alaska  Corporations Code as it  relates to                                                               
delivery  of annual  reports, notice  of shareholders'  meetings,                                                               
proxy  statements, and  other  information  to shareholders,  and                                                               
providing for electronic proxy voting."                                                                                         
     - MOVED CSHB 418(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
HOUSE BILL NO. 472                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to persons who buy and sell secondhand articles                                                                
and to certain persons who lend money on secondhand articles."                                                                  
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
HOUSE BILL NO. 128                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to employment of certain minors in                                                                             
     - MOVED CSHB 128(L&C) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
HOUSE BILL NO. 318                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to a health insurance uniform prescription drug                                                                
information card; and providing for an effective date."                                                                         
     - BILL HEARING POSTPONED                                                                                                   
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
BILL: HB 418                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:ELECTRONIC PROXY VOTING & NOTIFICATION                                                                              
SPONSOR(S): LABOR & COMMERCE BY REQUEST                                                                                         
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/13/02     2242       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
02/13/02     2242       (H)        L&C                                                                                          
02/27/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
02/27/02                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/04/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
BILL: HB 472                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:PAWNBROKERS/SECONDHAND DEALERS                                                                                      
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)GREEN                                                                                              
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/19/02     2315       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
02/19/02     2315       (H)        L&C, JUD                                                                                     
02/19/02     2315       (H)        REFERRED TO LABOR & COMMERCE                                                                 
03/04/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
BILL: HB 128                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:EMPLOYMENT OF MINORS IN AGRICULTURE                                                                                 
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)OGAN                                                                                               
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
02/14/01     0317       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
02/14/01     0317       (H)        L&C                                                                                          
03/26/01                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
03/26/01                (H)        Heard & Held -- Assigned to                                                                  
03/26/01                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
04/18/01                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
04/20/01                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
04/20/01                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
04/20/01                (H)        MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                  
03/04/02                (H)        L&C AT 3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                    
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
BUDD SIMPSON, Attorney                                                                                                          
Simpson, Tillinghast, Sorensen & Longenbaugh                                                                                    
One Sealaska Corporation, Suite 300                                                                                             
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on behalf of Sealaska Corporation                                                                
in regard to minor changes necessary to [Version F] of HB 418.                                                                  
TERRY ELDER, Director                                                                                                           
Division of Banking, Securities & Corporations                                                                                  
Department of Community & Economic Development                                                                                  
PO Box 110807                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska  99811-0807                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on [Version F] of HB 418.                                                                        
LAURA ACHEE, Staff                                                                                                              
to Representative Joe Green                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 403                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented HB 472 to the committee on behalf                                                                
of Representative Green, sponsor.                                                                                               
CYNTHIA BRIDGES, Detective                                                                                                      
Anchorage Police Department                                                                                                     
4501 South Bragaw Street                                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions relating to HB 472 and                                                                  
informed the committee of the Anchorage municipal codes relating                                                                
to pawnshops.                                                                                                                   
DAN HOFFMAN, Lieutenant                                                                                                         
Fairbanks Police Department                                                                                                     
656 7th Avenue                                                                                                                  
Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified that he hopes HB 472 is going to                                                                 
lay the groundwork for every police department in Alaska to                                                                     
agree on a single reporting system, and that an online or web-                                                                  
based system would be the acceptable reporting format.                                                                          
BERTHA BAUGUS                                                                                                                   
Roy's Pawn Shop                                                                                                                 
PO Box 718                                                                                                                      
Delta Junction, Alaska  99737                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 472.                                                                                       
JULIA GRIMES, Lieutenant                                                                                                        
Division of Alaska State Troopers                                                                                               
Department of Public Safety                                                                                                     
3700 East Tudor Road                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska  99507                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified  in support of  the intent  of HB
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room                                                                                                          
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION  STATEMENT:   Testified  as  the sponsor  of  HB 128  in                                                               
support of Version O.                                                                                                           
REBECCA NANCE GAMEZ, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                        
Office of the Commissioner                                                                                                      
Department of Labor & Workforce Development                                                                                     
PO Box 21149                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska 99802-1149                                                                                                       
POSITION   STATEMENT:     Testified   that   the  department   is                                                               
comfortable with Version O.                                                                                                     
RICHARD MASTRIANO, Director                                                                                                     
Division of Labor Standards & Safety                                                                                            
Department of Labor & Workforce Development                                                                                     
PO Box 10721                                                                                                                    
Anchorage, Alaska  99510-7021                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions  relating to Version O of                                                               
HB 128.                                                                                                                         
LARRY DeVILBISS                                                                                                                 
Wolverine Farm & Farm Bureau                                                                                                    
Palmer, Alaska  99645                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:   Testified that [Version  O] of HB 128  is a                                                               
win-win situation.                                                                                                              
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
TAPE 02-29, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
CHAIR  LISA  MURKOWSKI  called   the  House  Labor  and  Commerce                                                               
Standing   Committee    meeting   to    order   at    3:20   p.m.                                                               
Representatives Murkowski, Halcro,  Meyer, Rokeberg, and Crawford                                                               
were  present at  the call  to order.   Representatives  Kott and                                                               
Hayes arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                   
HB 418-ELECTRONIC PROXY VOTING & NOTIFICATION                                                                                 
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the  first order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE BILL  NO. 418, "An Act amending  the Alaska Corporations                                                               
Code  as it  relates to  delivery  of annual  reports, notice  of                                                               
shareholders' meetings,  proxy statements, and  other information                                                               
to shareholders, and providing for electronic proxy voting."                                                                    
Number 050                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG moved  to  adopt CSHB  418, version  22-                                                               
LS13335\F,  Bannister, 3/4/02,  as the  working document.   There                                                               
being no objection, Version F was before the committee.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  asked if the amendments  included in the                                                               
packet are included in Version F.                                                                                               
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  replied  yes.    Chair  Murkowski  related  her                                                               
understanding that the amendments  were suggested by the Division                                                               
Banking, Securities  & Corporations  (DBSC) of the  Department of                                                               
Community & Economic Development (DCED).                                                                                        
Number 072                                                                                                                      
BUDD   SIMPSON,  Attorney,   Simpson,  Tillinghast,   Sorensen  &                                                               
Longenbaugh,  representing  Sealaska Corporation,  explained  how                                                               
the changes  were made.   Mr. Simpson  said "we" are  prepared to                                                               
accept   [Version  F].     However,   he   noted  the   following                                                               
typographical  errors.   In  Section  1, page  1,  line 7,  there                                                               
should  contain a  subparagraph  (a).   On page  4,  line 24,  he                                                               
suggested that  the list of  items that shouldn't be  sent should                                                               
include "a dividend payment".                                                                                                   
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  pointed  out  that  the  latter  suggestion  is                                                               
addressed  in later  sections.   She  clarified  that this  isn't                                                               
addressing the  issue of  no longer  forwarding dividends  in the                                                               
MR. SIMPSON agreed.  He  directed attention to [subparagraph] (2)                                                               
at the  bottom of page [4],  which says that "during  a period of                                                               
at  least  12 months,  at  least  two  payments of  dividends  or                                                               
interest on securities".   He explained, "It needs  to refer back                                                               
to  that first  section is  all,  in order  to be  correct."   He                                                               
directed the  committee to  page 5, line  28, which  should read:                                                               
"in person; or".  The "or" was inadvertently left out, he noted.                                                                
Number 135                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO posed  a situation  in which  two dividend                                                               
checks are returned  because the address is  "undeliverable."  He                                                               
asked what would happen in such a situation.                                                                                    
MR.  SIMPSON informed  the  committee  that Sealaska  Corporation                                                               
maintains  an escrow  account for  funds that  are undeliverable.                                                               
If  a   shareholder  has   been  missing   for  some   time,  the                                                               
[corporation]  goes to  great lengths  to locate  the shareholder                                                               
and  has hired  an investigator.   However,  such lengths  aren't                                                               
taken when the shareholder has been  missing for only one year or                                                               
so.   He indicated a  dividend that remains uncollected  for many                                                               
years can escheat at some point.                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  HAYES  inquired  as  to  whether  the  amendments                                                               
introduced today  would change the  fiscal note to zero  for both                                                               
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  announced that was her  understanding.  However,                                                               
she said the division could address that.                                                                                       
Number 172                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  turned to page 4,  subsection (c), which                                                               
is   where  Mr.   Simpson   recommended  including   "dividends".                                                               
However,  he  pointed  out  that   page  5,  line  1,  refers  to                                                               
"dividends or  interest on securities,  or at least  two dividend                                                               
reinvestment  confirmations".   Representative Rokeberg  asked if                                                               
all the specific types of corporate  payouts have to be listed or                                                               
if there is a term of art that encompasses all those.                                                                           
MR. SIMPSON  said listing the entire  list would be safe,  but he                                                               
was hoping to use a more shorthand form.                                                                                        
CHAIR MURKOWSKI asked if payments  to shareholders or shareholder                                                               
payments would include dividends and interest on securities.                                                                    
MR. SIMPSON  suggested inserting the following  language on [page                                                               
4], line 24, after "send":   "a payment to shareholders or notice                                                               
thereof".   The aforementioned language would  cover the dividend                                                               
reinvestment confirmation.  Furthermore,  the term "payment" is a                                                               
broader term than "dividend".                                                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG related his  understanding, then, that it                                                               
would read as follows:  "A  corporation is not required to send a                                                               
payment to shareholders or notice thereof".                                                                                     
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  noted  that she  was  inserting  Mr.  Simpson's                                                               
suggested language on [page 4], line 25, after "annual report".                                                                 
MR. SIMPSON said that would be acceptable.                                                                                      
Number 218                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE   ROKEBERG   moved   that  the   committee   adopt                                                               
conceptual  Amendment  1, on  [page  4]  line 25,  after  "annual                                                               
report,"  to   insert  "a  payment  to   shareholders  or  notice                                                               
thereof".  There  being no objection, conceptual  Amendment 1 was                                                               
Number 231                                                                                                                      
TERRY  ELDER,   Director,  Division  of  Banking,   Securities  &                                                               
Corporations,  Department of  Community  & Economic  Development,                                                               
expressed his happiness in the fact  that he and Mr. Simpson were                                                               
able  to  come  to  agreement  on a  number  of  amendments  that                                                               
addressed  [the division's]  concerns.   Therefore, the  division                                                               
has  submitted a  zero fiscal  note  for [Version  F].   Although                                                               
there will  be a cost due  to the adjustment of  the regulations,                                                               
the plan  is to do  it as part  of the regular  regulation review                                                               
process.  Mr.  Elder explained that the main item  that moved the                                                               
division to the  zero fiscal note and away  from the investigator                                                               
was the addition of the provision  [in Version F] that allows for                                                               
any  legal  proxy  to  be  treated   in  the  same  manner  if  a                                                               
corporation adopts  rules that provide for  the electronic voting                                                               
proxies.   [The division]  feels that goes  far in  ensuring that                                                               
there is  a level playing  field between corporation  proxies and                                                               
independent proxies.                                                                                                            
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  remarked that Representative  Halcro had                                                               
made a good point earlier.   Representative Rokeberg asked if the                                                               
statute includes  a provision regarding the  requirement relating                                                               
to nondelivered dividends or fiduciary instruments.                                                                             
MR.  ELDER said  he would  have to  review Title  10 in  order to                                                               
determine whether that  matter is discussed elsewhere.   He noted                                                               
that his  only concern is  in regard  to whether this  section is                                                               
the  appropriate section  to include  that, because  this section                                                               
[AS  10.06.411]   speaks  to  the  delivery   of  information  to                                                               
shareholders.    He added,  "If  you're  comfortable doing  that,                                                               
fine,  but   there  may  be   some  other  section   that's  more                                                               
appropriate  and  [Legislative  Legal  Services],  in  fact,  may                                                               
recommend  a different  one."   However, he  said, he  understood                                                               
[Mr.  Simpson's] point  that if  dividends and  interest payments                                                               
are sent  out and are returned,  there is no point  in continuing                                                               
to  send those  out.   Mr. Elder  said he  was guessing  that the                                                               
corporations  would be  required to  maintain those  holdings for                                                               
the benefit  of the  shareholder, although  there may  a specific                                                               
time  period  in  which  the  money would  be  considered  to  be                                                               
"legally dead."                                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG inquired  as  to  the current  provision                                                               
under  the   property  law  regarding   the  banks'   ability  to                                                               
distribute funds  to the  state if  there is  no claimant  to the                                                               
MR.  ELDER answered  that although  he recalled  the time  period                                                               
that the  money had  to be held  to be quite  a while,  he wasn't                                                               
sure of the specific time.                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG  said he  didn't mind having  it as  a de                                                               
facto provision.  However, a  specific statutory dictate has been                                                               
created  in  regard to  the  action  of  a corporation,  but  the                                                               
corporation hasn't been  told what to do if those  items can't be                                                               
delivered.    Therefore, he  indicated  his  liking of  [Sealaska                                                               
Corporation's policy] to hold the  funds with interest until such                                                               
time that the individual can be found.                                                                                          
MR.  ELDER commented  that he  would be  surprised if  that isn't                                                               
already required, but said he'd have to review it.                                                                              
Number 309                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE   HALCRO   informed   the  committee   that   some                                                               
cooperatives  such as  Chugach Electric  that send  out dividends                                                               
which are  returned place  a list  of the  names relating  to the                                                               
returned dividends  in the newspaper.   He surmised that  is done                                                               
because it satisfies some public-notice  provision for state law,                                                               
and that a corporation in  the same situation would operate under                                                               
the same rules.                                                                                                                 
MR. ELDER agreed  and recalled that a number  of newsletters from                                                               
various   Alaska    Native   Claims   Settlement    Act   (ANCSA)                                                               
corporations, which  go out  to all  the shareholders,  include a                                                               
similar type of notice.                                                                                                         
CHAIR MURKOWSKI pointed out that  the statutes pertaining to real                                                               
property say  that after seven  years from the date  of judgment,                                                               
the [property] can escheat to  the state.  Chair Murkowski agreed                                                               
to have staff check into this matter.                                                                                           
Number 349                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  moved to adopt conceptual  Amendment 2, on                                                               
page 5,  line 28, after "person;",  to insert "or".   There being                                                               
no objection, conceptual Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                                               
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI announced  that the  lack of  subsection (a)  in                                                               
Section  1 is  a drafting  issue  that the  drafters can  address                                                               
[without an amendment].                                                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE  HAYES  moved  to  report CSHB  418  [version  22-                                                               
LS13335\F, Bannister,  3/4/02, as amended] out  of committee with                                                               
individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  zero  fiscal                                                               
note.  There  being no objection, CSHB 418(L&C) was  moved out of                                                               
the House Labor and Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                
HB 472-PAWNBROKERS/SECONDHAND DEALERS                                                                                         
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced  that the next order  of business would                                                               
be HOUSE  BILL NO. 472, "An  Act relating to persons  who buy and                                                               
sell secondhand  articles and to  certain persons who  lend money                                                               
on secondhand articles."                                                                                                        
Number 379                                                                                                                      
LAURA  ACHEE, Staff  to Representative  Joe  Green, Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature,  introduced  HB  472  on  behalf  of  Representative                                                               
Green,  sponsor.   She  said  currently  in the  Municipality  of                                                               
Anchorage, pawnshops  and other types of  secondhand dealers such                                                               
as  fur  shops  are  required  to  make  weekly  reports  to  the                                                               
Anchorage Police Department  (APD) of all of the  items that they                                                               
receive and  sell as pawned  goods.   The reasoning is  it allows                                                               
the police  department to match  up these records of  items taken                                                               
in against  records of  stolen goods, in  an effort  to hopefully                                                               
return those  stolen goods to  the original owners.   This system                                                               
has been working well in Anchorage.                                                                                             
Number 385                                                                                                                      
MS.  ACHEE  explained that  this  law  is limited  to  Anchorage.                                                               
State statute  now requires all  pawnshops across Alaska  to keep                                                               
very  detailed  records and  that  the  records  be open  to  law                                                               
enforcement.  Unfortunately, law  enforcement agencies don't have                                                               
the  manpower to  send someone  around to  go through  the record                                                               
books of each  pawnshop every time there is a  record of a stolen                                                               
MS. ACHEE  said HB 472  is modeled after the  Anchorage municipal                                                               
code  and would  require  that pawnshops  across  the state  make                                                               
weekly reports to either the  local municipal agency or the state                                                               
troopers  of items  taken in  during the  week.   The bill  makes                                                               
another  addition   to  the  state  statute   [relating  to]  the                                                               
municipal  code, requiring  a written  description of  the person                                                               
[who pawned  the item].  The  reasoning is that if  an item turns                                                               
up  stolen,  then  the  police have  a  physical  description  in                                                               
addition to the identification (ID)  of the person who pawned the                                                               
item.   She  said she  has  been working  with Detective  Cynthia                                                               
Bridges  from the  APD; Officer  Dan Hoffman  from the  Fairbanks                                                               
Police  Department;  and  Officer  Simon Brown,  usually  of  the                                                               
Alaska State Troopers  but who, as a [National]  Guard member, is                                                               
currently  on active  duty and  may  not be  able to  call in  to                                                               
testify.  She  said Detective Bridges and  Officer Hoffman should                                                               
be able to call in to testify.                                                                                                  
Number 405                                                                                                                      
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  asked,  since  HB  472  is  modeled  after  the                                                               
Anchorage  municipal code,  whether  there are  forms already  in                                                               
place  for filling  in physical  descriptions.   She said  as she                                                               
understands  it,  the  form  is   provided  by  or  in  a  format                                                               
acceptable to the  police department or the state  troopers.  She                                                               
asked Ms.  Achee if  HB 472 is  trying to get  a uniform  type of                                                               
form or if it matters.                                                                                                          
MS. ACHEE  deferred to Detective  Bridges to answer  the question                                                               
regarding what Anchorage is currently using as a form.                                                                          
Number 417                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  HAYES commented  that if  this is  going to  be a                                                               
statewide program, each  part of the state might want  to do this                                                               
differently.   He asked,  "How do  we go about  doing that?   ...                                                               
Why is the state doing this in  general?  Why not do this through                                                               
municipalities?"  He explained that  one basic argument regarding                                                               
the [state]  budget is that perhaps  the state does more  than it                                                               
should in areas  the cities and municipalities should  cover.  He                                                               
asked why the state wants to get involved in doing this.                                                                        
Number 423                                                                                                                      
MS. ACHEE answered that the statute  is worded such that it would                                                               
be up to  each individual municipality or the  state troopers, if                                                               
they have  jurisdiction, on what  they would  like to see  in the                                                               
report.  She  mentioned that although she doesn't  know the exact                                                               
date,  some officers  whom she's  been working  with are  getting                                                               
together  this month  [March]  to look  at  software that  tracks                                                               
incoming reports  - the idea  being that  if they could  agree on                                                               
one they  all liked,  they could  go back  to their  agencies and                                                               
have that software purchased, and could  all be on the same page.                                                               
She  remarked, "There's  a real  nice spirit  of cooperation  out                                                               
there among the different agencies."                                                                                            
MS. ACHEE  responded to  Representative Hayes's  second question,                                                               
regarding  whether   there  is  "stepping  into   some  municipal                                                               
jurisdiction."    She  explained  that   if  an  item  stolen  in                                                               
Anchorage is  pawned in  Fairbanks, this  state law  would affect                                                               
the Anchorage resident as well  as the Fairbanks pawnbroker.  She                                                               
offered that this is why she thinks it is a statewide issue.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES  replied that if  it is stolen  property, no                                                               
matter what part of the state it  is in, he doesn't see why there                                                               
would be  a jurisdictional problem  with stolen  property, "which                                                               
is overarching  anyway."   He said  the City  of Fairbanks  has a                                                               
very tight budget,  so "the agencies have to pay  for whatever to                                                               
do this."   He suggested this  law would be an  unfunded mandate.                                                               
He offered  that he doesn't  know why there  needs to be  a state                                                               
law when it sounds as though municipalities already do this.                                                                    
Number 446                                                                                                                      
MS. ACHEE replied that  the idea is to get the  items back to the                                                               
people to  whom they belong.   The  [City] of Fairbanks  does not                                                               
have  any similar  laws on  the books.   She  said she  would let                                                               
Officer Hoffman address  that issue because it  is something that                                                               
he is frustrated with.                                                                                                          
MS.  ACHEE said  it is  her understanding,  after several  casual                                                               
conversations with Officer Brown  from the Alaska State Troopers,                                                               
that there  is actually traffic  from people who steal  things in                                                               
one part  of the state and  disposing of them in  another part to                                                               
help hide  their tracks.  Regarding  money, she said it  is a big                                                               
question and  that there is going  to be a cost  involved for the                                                               
in-taking agencies.  She stated:                                                                                                
     I'm speaking for  Officer Brown, since I'm  not sure if                                                                    
     he's going to be able  to phone in today; he's actually                                                                    
     put a lot of thought and a  lot of work into this.  ...                                                                    
     He uses  welfare-to-work folks  to come  in and  do the                                                                    
     data entry, which provides job  experience for them and                                                                    
     low-cost data entry for the state.  So it's a win-win                                                                      
Number 462                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER  brought attention  to the reference  in the                                                               
bill to keeping  track of transactions in a "book".   He asked if                                                               
a "book" is a journal or could also be a computer record.                                                                       
MS. ACHEE  said the statute predates  HB 472, so now  it probably                                                               
is a  physical book or journal.   She mentioned that  a few shops                                                               
in the state  aren't computerized and probably keep  records in a                                                               
physical  book.    Many  shops  in  Anchorage  are  computerized,                                                               
however, and keep records on a computer.                                                                                        
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER asked if the  shop owners who have access to                                                               
a computer are using a physical book also.                                                                                      
MS. ACHEE  responded that she doesn't  know.  She said  the issue                                                               
of  whether the  word  "book" needs  to be  used  in the  statute                                                               
anymore should be addressed.                                                                                                    
Number 474                                                                                                                      
CHAIR MURKOWSKI referred to AS 08.76.020(b), which read in part:                                                                
     Sec. 08.76.020.  Manner of recording entry.                                                                                
     The  entries shall  appear in  chronological order,  in                                                                    
     ink or indelible  pencil.  Blank lines may  not be left                                                                    
     between  entries.     Obliterations,   alterations,  or                                                                    
     erasures may not be made.                                                                                                  
CHAIR MURKOWSKI remarked, "This is  something that we want to get                                                               
rid  of  because  it  would  prohibit  the  ability  to  use  the                                                               
software, which sounds like the real deal here."                                                                                
Number 480                                                                                                                      
MS. ACHEE  referred to her  classroom experience  while obtaining                                                               
her degree in biology.  She  recalled that in classes where there                                                               
were scientific  experiments, the students  had to follow  in the                                                               
model they  would later use if  they became researchers.   It was                                                               
very  important that  the notebook  not have  any pages  removed,                                                               
that it  be written in  indelible ink,  and that errors  be drawn                                                               
through  with a  line for  the  sake of  being able  to prove  no                                                               
[inappropriate] changes  had been  made to  the document.   While                                                               
she agreed  that requiring in statute  that a book be  used could                                                               
potentially  put  those businesses  that  only  use computers  in                                                               
jeopardy, she  emphasized that  the intent  is very  important to                                                               
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  agreed with Ms. Achee's  point about maintaining                                                               
the intent.                                                                                                                     
Number 489                                                                                                                      
MS.  ACHEE mentioned  that she  has  done a  little research  and                                                               
found  that  a  number  of software  programs  are  available  to                                                               
pawnshops.   She  said she  isn't  sure if  that software  allows                                                               
changes or  not, but  it probably  needs to  be researched.   She                                                               
added,  "I  think that  all  of  the  pawnbrokers in  Alaska  are                                                               
probably  very upstanding  people who  are  not going  to be  out                                                               
there ... taking in goods that  they're not recording.  But these                                                               
are things you need to be aware of could happen."                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE MEYER addressed  the issue of the  definition of a                                                               
pawnshop.  He asked if a shop  like Play It Again Sports would be                                                               
considered a pawnshop.                                                                                                          
MS. ACHEE said that question has  been raised before and she does                                                               
not have an answer.                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER  inquired  about the  number  of  pawnshops                                                               
currently in Alaska.                                                                                                            
MS.  ACHEE said  through an  informal search  she'd performed  on                                                               
Yahoo  Yellow  Pages,  she'd  found about  55  stores  under  the                                                               
category of pawnshops, half of which are in Anchorage.                                                                          
Number 502                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO referred  to  page 1,  lines 12-14,  which                                                               
outlines  the  physical  description of  the  customer  including                                                               
"age, height,  weight, race, color  of hair, and color  of eyes".                                                               
He asked if this is currently being done in Anchorage.                                                                          
MS. ACHEE replied in the affirmative.                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO asked if there  have been any concerns with                                                               
civil liberties being violated.                                                                                                 
MS.  ACHEE said  she isn't  aware  of any  concerns in  Anchorage                                                               
regarding that.   She mentioned  a position held by  the National                                                               
Pawnbrokers  Association that  while it  agrees this  information                                                               
should be taken  down, it doesn't necessarily agree  it should be                                                               
transmitted  to the  police agencies  as  part of  the weekly  or                                                               
daily reports.   It argues  that while the information  should be                                                               
retained  on record,  it shouldn't  be transmitted  unless called                                                               
for by the police agency.                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE  HALCRO  offered  that  the  National  Pawnbrokers                                                               
Association's position sounds  pretty reasonable.  If  there is a                                                               
hit in  the journal that indicates  there is a stolen  item and a                                                               
specific person brought  it in, the police could then  go back to                                                               
the pawnshop and  ask for a more detailed record  of the person's                                                               
physical description.  He asked if this has been considered.                                                                    
MS. ACHEE asked, "Changing the bill?"                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  restated the  aforementioned, which  is to                                                               
basically allow  the pawnbroker to keep  this information private                                                               
until the police  come back and say,  "We have a hit  on this one                                                               
item you've  logged into your  journal book.   We'd like  to know                                                               
more about the customer."                                                                                                       
Number 521                                                                                                                      
MS.  ACHEE said  as the  bill  is currently  written, it  doesn't                                                               
specify what  needs to be  in the  report to the  local agencies.                                                               
She  offered that  she thinks  right now  it would  be up  to the                                                               
individual  police agencies  what  information  they are  looking                                                               
for.  She said:                                                                                                                 
     I  know  that  the  Anchorage  Police  Department  does                                                                    
     receive  that information  on  [its]  reports and  have                                                                    
     used  it in  reverse when  someone has  said, "Well,  I                                                                    
     think my  son stole something  from me."   Then they've                                                                    
     used it  in reverse and  looked for the item  by person                                                                    
     selling  or pawning  it, and  found items  that way  as                                                                    
Number 526                                                                                                                      
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  referred to page  2, Section 3,  subsection (b),                                                               
where it does provide that  the information under AS 08.76.010 is                                                               
required.   She said it sounds  as though the summary  would have                                                               
to contain this information, although  it doesn't describe how it                                                               
would be formatted.                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  addressed the  topic of  documenting the                                                               
physical description of  the customer, and offered  that it might                                                               
be  just as  good if  the pawnbrokers  were given  the choice  of                                                               
taking   a  video   recording  instead   of   writing  down   the                                                               
description.    He also  asked  if  it  is  required to  let  the                                                               
customer know  that his/her physical  description is  being taken                                                               
MS. ACHEE replied that if the committee  and the legislature as a                                                               
whole wanted to  include the option of a video,  she thought that                                                               
would probably be a good idea.   She said she isn't sure what the                                                               
rules are for  what's admissible in court and  how one identifies                                                               
someone in a case in which someone brought in stolen goods.                                                                     
MS.  ACHEE,  in  response  to  Representative  Crawford's  second                                                               
question,  said since  she  has  not worked  in  a pawnshop,  she                                                               
doesn't   know   if   the  customer   is   aware   that   his/her                                                               
characteristics are being taken down.                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  mentioned that the bill  doesn't specify                                                               
whether or  not the identification card  has to be a  picture ID.                                                               
He asked,  "Shouldn't we specify that  it should be a  picture ID                                                               
and not just a social security card?"                                                                                           
Number 550                                                                                                                      
MS. ACHEE  said it was a  good idea if the  committee was willing                                                               
to entertain that.                                                                                                              
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  offered  one  problem, that  in  some  smaller,                                                               
remote communities there  isn't access to picture IDs.   In these                                                               
communities,  airport security  has  been an  issue because  some                                                               
people  don't have  anything to  present  that establishes  their                                                               
true  identities.     She   mentioned  conversations   with  Mary                                                               
Marshburn, Director, Division of  Motor Vehicle (DMV), Department                                                               
of Administration, concerning how to get  DMV to go out and issue                                                               
state IDs or  something to give these folks some  kind of picture                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  suggested that  if the  customer doesn't                                                               
have a  picture ID,  then the  pawnbroker could  take a  video in                                                               
lieu of the picture ID.  He  said, "I can't imagine a pawnshop in                                                               
the state that doesn't have a video camera in it, or ten."                                                                      
Number 565                                                                                                                      
CYNTHIA  BRIDGES, Detective,  Anchorage Police  Department (APD),                                                               
testified via  teleconference.  She  said in Anchorage  there are                                                               
several  different ways  that  the 23  pawnshops  report to  [the                                                               
APD].   Some pawnshops  report on paper,  while others  either e-                                                               
mail the report  or have a computer disc with  the report that is                                                               
collected  on  a weekly  basis.    She  offered that  the  police                                                               
department provides the pawnbrokers  with pawn tickets, and other                                                               
agencies could duplicate  the tickets or have a copy  of them and                                                               
make their own  off of [the police department's] copy.   She said                                                               
while most of  the pawnshops are computerized,  they are required                                                               
to maintain a hard  copy when there is a transaction.   This is a                                                               
safety measure  just on the  off chance the computer  records are                                                               
Number 580                                                                                                                      
MS. BRIDGES explained that there's  a disclaimer on the bottom of                                                               
the  pawn ticket  that the  customer or  "pawner" is  required to                                                               
read and  sign, which basically  states that the person  owns the                                                               
property.   There's a blank on  the pawn ticket for  the customer                                                               
to fill  out regarding the  number of  months and years  that the                                                               
person  has owned  it.   The  customer must  then  sign the  pawn                                                               
ticket also.   If the customer signs and  [the police department]                                                               
can prove the  item probably didn't belong to that  person in the                                                               
length of  time declared, that  person can be arrested  for theft                                                               
by deception.   She explained that  this is one thing  that helps                                                               
[the  police department]  to be  able to  charge people  who pawn                                                               
stolen property.                                                                                                                
MS. BRIDGES  continued, explaining that  Play It Again  Sports in                                                               
Anchorage is required to report  to [the police department] also.                                                               
She mentioned  that it has  recently changed owners, and  the new                                                               
owner  has   asked  whether   the  reporting   requirement  would                                                               
continue; Ms. Bridges said she's  still trying to find the answer                                                               
to that  inquiry.  She  added, "Apparently, they're  not required                                                               
to have  a pawnbroker's license, so  ... I'm not sure  if they're                                                               
going to  be required to report  to us."  She  said although that                                                               
business takes in quite a bit  of property that could possibly be                                                               
stolen, she has  never had any problems with the  business in the                                                               
two  years  she has  been  doing  pawn.    However, it  still  is                                                               
required to report.                                                                                                             
Number 590                                                                                                                      
MS.  BRIDGES   mentioned  that  the  name   information  is  very                                                               
important for the APD to receive.                                                                                               
TAPE 02-29, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 592                                                                                                                      
MS. BRIDGES explained  a current situation in which  a young lady                                                               
had a  couple pieces of jewelry  stolen and called to  report it,                                                               
saying she'd had  people over at her house and  knew someone took                                                               
the jewelry.  She continued describing the situation:                                                                           
     She  gave me  names.   I checked  the names.   None  of                                                                    
     those people had done it.   But she also said, "There's                                                                    
     this  other gal,  her name  was April,  and I  know she                                                                    
     pawned the  jewelry at  Cash Alaska -  Muldoon."   So I                                                                    
     got on  our system and  looked for the  particular date                                                                    
     that she was saying that  the jewelry went missing, and                                                                    
     sure enough, I  did find April, and I was  able to find                                                                    
     out  who April  was.   And hopefully  we'll be  able to                                                                    
     recover this jewelry for her.                                                                                              
Number 584                                                                                                                      
MS. BRIDGES  mentioned that  [the report] doesn't  go out  to the                                                               
public;  it's  just  for  [the police]  department's  use.    She                                                               
offered that  it would be good  with outside agencies also.   She                                                               
     For example,  [if] Lieutenant Hoffman in  Fairbanks has                                                                    
     a suspect that  he felt possibly came  to Anchorage and                                                                    
     pawned some property, he could  call me and say, "Could                                                                    
     you run  this person in  your system to see  if they've                                                                    
     made any pawns locally in the  past week."  And I could                                                                    
     run  that person's  name  and ...  say,  "Yeah, ...  he                                                                    
     pawned ... a Makita drill."  ...                                                                                           
     A lot  of people do  not record serial numbers.   There                                                                    
     [is] a  lot of property  out there that  is serialized,                                                                    
     but they  do not record  the numbers.  And  the problem                                                                    
     that  we have  is, if  we  go in  and look  just for  a                                                                    
     generic  item, say,  a  Makita drill,  we  may have  20                                                                    
     pawned in a  week.  Without that serial  number, we may                                                                    
     not be  able to  return it  to the owner.   But  if the                                                                    
     owner says,  "Hey, ... I  think my employee,  John Doe,                                                                    
     pawned my  drill," ...   his name  is in the  report; I                                                                    
     get the  report, [and] then  I can run that  guy's name                                                                    
     in the  computer, and if  he did  pawn a drill,  then I                                                                    
     can recover it.                                                                                                            
Number 574                                                                                                                      
MS. BRIDGES  asked, in regard  to villages that don't  have photo                                                               
IDs, if there even are pawnshops  there.  If there are, she asked                                                               
whether the owners can vouch  for people's identities even though                                                               
they don't look at a picture  ID, because of knowing a person for                                                               
20 years,  for example.  She  emphasized that the whole  point of                                                               
the picture  ID is for  the clerk to  be able  to look at  it and                                                               
say, "Yes, this is the person who  pawned this item.  I looked at                                                               
their ID, I looked  at them, and I verified it  was, in fact, the                                                               
same person."                                                                                                                   
MS. BRIDGES  offered that there  are issues when people  obtain a                                                               
fake ID that  has the correct picture but a  different name.  She                                                               
     It's not  required here in  Anchorage; I'd like  to see                                                                    
     it required, but it's not  required at this point.  ...                                                                    
     In some  of the  smaller towns, they  might not  have a                                                                    
     picture  ID. ...  The  whole point  of  doing this  and                                                                    
     looking  at  the picture  ID  is  if the  property  was                                                                    
     stolen, we can determine who  pawned it and be positive                                                                    
     that that's  the person  that pawned it.   So  maybe if                                                                    
     the picture ID is not  available, a fingerprint - so if                                                                    
     for  any reason  that  piece of  merchandise [that]  is                                                                    
     pawned comes up stolen, we  can go back and say, "Okay,                                                                    
     you provided  a fingerprint  when you pawned  the item.                                                                    
     Would  you be  willing to  provide another  fingerprint                                                                    
     for comparison?"                                                                                                           
Number 553                                                                                                                      
MS.  BRIDGES  mentioned that  many  pawnshops  in Anchorage  have                                                               
video cameras, but not all do.   She offered that maybe a digital                                                               
photo could be another option if  a customer doesn't have a photo                                                               
MS. BRIDGES said,  "We [in Anchorage] are proud  of our ordinance                                                               
regarding the  pawnshops.  We do  not get a lot  of problems with                                                               
our  pawnshops.    They  are  very good  at  complying  with  the                                                               
ordinance."  She  added, "We're trying to strive to  change a few                                                               
things."  She explained that  [Anchorage] would like to see real-                                                               
time reporting or reporting on a  daily basis, whereby there is a                                                               
better  chance of  recovering  more stolen  property.   She  said                                                               
Anchorage recovers  hundreds of  thousands of  dollars a  year in                                                               
stolen property.  She stated:                                                                                                   
     Some of  the crooks are  getting wise to the  fact that                                                                    
     we  recover stuff  from the  pawnshops  [that] they  do                                                                    
     take ... out  of town.  Palmer [or] Wasilla  is not too                                                                    
     far away  that they can't  just take a short  drive out                                                                    
     to the valley and pawn the  stuff.  We can't recover it                                                                    
     from  there, because  they don't  report  like they  do                                                                    
     here in  Anchorage.  ...   If they had the  same ... or                                                                    
     similar  setup that  we  do,  then it  would  be a  lot                                                                    
     easier in recovering a lot more stolen property.                                                                           
Number 535                                                                                                                      
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  referred to  Play  It  Again Sports  and  said,                                                               
looking  at the  statute, it  is  clearly a  business engaged  in                                                               
buying  and  selling secondhand  articles.    She mentioned  that                                                               
women's consignment  shops would be  included also.   She offered                                                               
that  she  can't  imagine  that   these  entities  would  require                                                               
something as specific as a  pawnbroker license, and in looking at                                                               
the statute, she  thought this might be an  opportunity to define                                                               
pawnbrokers.  She asked if  the requirements to have a pawnbroker                                                               
license are in the Anchorage municipal code.                                                                                    
MS. BRIDGES  referred to the  Anchorage Municipal  Charter, Codes                                                               
and Regulations, 10.20.025, which read in part:                                                                                 
     Required.   No  person may  engage in  the business  of                                                                    
     lending   money  on   security  of   personal  property                                                                    
     physically taken  and held,  or purchasing  articles of                                                                    
     personal property  and reselling or agreeing  to resell                                                                    
     the articles  to the vendor  or an assignee at  a price                                                                    
     agreed upon at or before  the time of purchase, without                                                                    
     first having  obtained a pawnbroker's license  from the                                                                    
     municipal clerk.                                                                                                           
Number 516                                                                                                                      
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  said she isn't  sure if that tells  her anything                                                               
more  than  she  knew  before.     She  said  this  is  important                                                               
information to  have for the  pawnshops and their  reporting, but                                                               
it  seems there's  a group  that could  be dragged  unnecessarily                                                               
into this.   She said she isn't quite sure  how that issue should                                                               
be addressed yet.   She offered that it may  just be by inserting                                                               
a definition of pawnbroker somewhere.                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  asked Ms. Bridges  if it would  make her                                                               
job easier  if there  were a  record of a  photo ID,  rather than                                                               
just a written description of the customer.                                                                                     
MS. BRIDGES said  it would definitely make her job  a lot easier.                                                               
In Anchorage,  pawnshops are required to  collect the information                                                               
on the person  making the pawn, from his/her ID.   She emphasized                                                               
that whether it be a military  ID, an Alaska driver's license, an                                                               
Alaska ID,  or another  state ID, it  has to have  a photo.   She                                                               
told members, "The  whole point of it  is to be able  to say that                                                               
you're positive  the person  that you  are doing  the transaction                                                               
for is the same person on the ID."                                                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD offered that  it doesn't seem the wording                                                               
in [HB 472] is clear about  the type of identification card used;                                                               
it only requires giving the number of the card.                                                                                 
Number 497                                                                                                                      
MS. BRIDGES explained that [Anchorage's]  municipal statute is at                                                               
least ten pages long and covers a lot more than [HB 472] does.                                                                  
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD  restated his question  regarding whether                                                               
the person who  is making the pawn actually knows  that there's a                                                               
physical description being taken down.                                                                                          
MS. BRIDGES explained that a person  who pawns an item is given a                                                               
copy of the  pawn ticket.  Most  pawnshops - but not all  - do it                                                               
on a computer and print out a  "hard card" for the customer.  She                                                               
described  that on  the  pawn ticket  there is  a  place for  the                                                               
driver's license  number, sex, race, age,  height, weight, [color                                                               
of]  hair, [color  of] eyes,  and date  of birth.   She  said she                                                               
doesn't know if the customer  is necessarily told the information                                                               
is being  recorded, but the  customer is  provided a copy  of the                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD said that answers  his question.  He then                                                               
asked if  it should  be required that  a record of  a photo  or a                                                               
photo  ID of  the person  pawning the  item should  be kept.   He                                                               
offered that it isn't in [HB 472] as far as he can tell.                                                                        
Number 475                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked  if this is putting  the pawnshop owner                                                               
in the position  of trying to guess someone's age  and weight, or                                                               
if the customer fills out the form.                                                                                             
MS. ACHEE deferred the question to Detective Bridges.                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT referred  to Section  1, subsection  (a)(6),                                                               
where it  discusses naming the  type of identification  card used                                                               
to  identify  the customer.    He  then  referred to  Section  2,                                                               
subsection (b), which read:                                                                                                     
     The  person  actually  conducting the  transaction  for                                                                    
     which  a signature  is required  under  (a)(6) of  this                                                                    
     section shall  verify the identity  of the  customer by                                                                    
     comparing  the  signature  of  the  customer  with  the                                                                    
     signature on  a driver's license,  state identification                                                                    
     card,  or   other  identification  card  issued   by  a                                                                    
     governmental entity to the customer.                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT offered  that he doesn't see that  a photo ID                                                               
isn't being  used.  He  said the clerk  will be able  to validate                                                               
who the customer is by not only a signature, but also a photo.                                                                  
Number 459                                                                                                                      
MS. ACHEE  offered that she  believes a social security  card can                                                               
also be  accepted as identification.   As was  already discussed,                                                               
she  said some  Alaskan  communities don't  have photo  equipment                                                               
available when creating  state IDs for residents.   She mentioned                                                               
that she  has friends who,  when attending college out  of state,                                                               
lost their driver's license and  had Alaska state IDs issued that                                                               
said "Picture  not required" in place  of the picture.   So it is                                                               
possible to have a valid ID without a photograph on it.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT said  in Alaska  there are  pictures on  all                                                               
driver's  licenses and  state IDs.   He  offered that  he doesn't                                                               
believe that  anywhere is a  social security card accepted  as an                                                               
identification card.  He said he  has tried and was rejected, and                                                               
doesn't  think  a  social  security  card  even  falls  into  the                                                               
category of an  ID card.  He recognized the  problem with issuing                                                               
photo IDs  and driver's licenses  in rural Alaska.   He mentioned                                                               
that the National Guard and the Air Guard would have an ID card.                                                                
Number 436                                                                                                                      
MS.   BRIDGES   asked,  "How   would   they   get  the   physical                                                               
descriptors?"  She suggested it  would be something one could get                                                               
off of  a driver's license  without asking the customer  how much                                                               
he/she weighs  or how  tall the  person is.   Someone  would just                                                               
have to ask for the ID  card and then collect all the information                                                               
from the ID card.  She  offered that police reports have the same                                                               
type of information being discussed  that can be gathered from an                                                               
ID card.   In  regard to  some of  the physical  descriptors, she                                                               
said someone can  just look at the customer and  kind of guess on                                                               
the height  and weight  because it's  not a  major concern.   She                                                               
emphasized, "The major concern is  making sure that the person on                                                               
the  ID card  is the  same  person you're  doing the  transaction                                                               
Number 425                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT offered  that  maybe [HB  472] should  state                                                               
something like  "approximate height  and weight".   He commented,                                                               
"I can  show you my ID  card.  I look  just look I did  ten years                                                               
ago, but I can guarantee the weight is substantially different."                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CRAWFORD asked whether a  State of Alaska voter ID                                                               
card that has  a signature would be considered  a sufficient form                                                               
of ID.                                                                                                                          
MS. BRIDGES  said she doesn't  think so.   [Anchorage's municipal                                                               
code]  is  pretty  specific  and   includes  name,  address,  and                                                               
military serial number or driver's  license number.  Although Ms.                                                               
Bridges said  she wasn't sure  whether she  could find it  in the                                                               
statute, all pawnshops [in Anchorage]  know that they're required                                                               
to  check IDs,  in order  to "make  sure that  you are  doing the                                                               
transaction for the person that they  say they are."  She offered                                                               
that if  someone comes  in and  wants to  make a  transaction but                                                               
doesn't have a photo ID, the pawnshop will turn the person away.                                                                
Number 407                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  HAYES  asked  how  much this  program  costs  the                                                               
Municipality [of Anchorage] to implement  every year.  He said it                                                               
seems that not  a lot of places in the  state currently have this                                                               
type of  program.  He offered  an example of a  person from rural                                                               
Alaska who  is visiting Anchorage for  the day and wants  to pawn                                                               
some  items.   He said  if  the person  didn't have  any type  of                                                               
picture ID  that would be  acceptable, then he/she would  have to                                                               
go  to  DMV  and get  an  ID.    He  asked  if it  would  be  the                                                               
responsibility of  the pawnshop owner  to inform the  customer of                                                               
the need to go through all these different steps.                                                                               
Number 393                                                                                                                      
MS. BRIDGES said the pawnshops  know they're required to check ID                                                               
when  they do  a loan;  if a  person who  wants to  pawn an  item                                                               
doesn't have a  picture ID, then the pawnshop is  not going to be                                                               
able to do the  transaction.  She explained that it  is up to the                                                               
customer who lacks a  picture ID to make the effort  to go to the                                                               
DMV and get a driver's license or  an ID with a picture.  It just                                                               
depends on  how badly  the person  wants to pawn  the item.   She                                                               
     I'm  just not  sure  how big  of a  deal  not having  a                                                                    
     picture ID  is, because  I'm not sure  how many  of the                                                                    
     rural communities  have pawnshops.   ...   And  it just                                                                    
     seems  to me  that if,  in fact,  you do  have a  rural                                                                    
     community that  has a pawnshop,  then more  than likely                                                                    
     the  pawnshop owner  would  probably  know pretty  much                                                                    
     everybody  in the  community.   And in  that case  they                                                                    
     wouldn't necessarily  need to have picture  ID, because                                                                    
     they know the person.                                                                                                      
Number 376                                                                                                                      
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI mentioned  that other  people online  waiting to                                                               
testify might be able to offer some insight into that issue.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES  said he appreciates learning  about what is                                                               
done  in Anchorage,  but is  curious what  is done  elsewhere [in                                                               
Alaska].    He said  if  the  same physical  descriptions  aren't                                                               
currently  required  in  other  sections  of  the  state  besides                                                               
Anchorage, then that would put a  whole new system on those areas                                                               
that currently don't have those requirements.                                                                                   
Number 371                                                                                                                      
DAN HOFFMAN,  Lieutenant, Fairbanks Police  Department, testified                                                               
via  teleconference.    With  regard  to  Representative  Hayes's                                                               
question,  he  said  this  issue  needs  to  be  addressed  on  a                                                               
statewide basis.   He  said both Anchorage  and Fairbanks  have a                                                               
pawn ordinance  in place.   He  mentioned a  big problem  is that                                                               
[Fairbanks] can  make a change  to the local ordinance,  but it's                                                               
not  going to  affect all  the  pawnshops just  outside the  city                                                               
limits in the borough that  don't have any enforcement authority.                                                               
It's not  going to affect  pawnshops in North Pole,  for example,                                                               
or in the  Matanuska-Susitna area.  He offered his  belief that a                                                               
tremendous amount of stolen property  is stolen in Fairbanks on a                                                               
monthly basis and is trucked  to the [Matanuska-Susitna] area and                                                               
Anchorage, where it is pawned, and vice versa.  He continued:                                                                   
     It's because  we're not  centralized, and  it's because                                                                    
     everybody's not on  the same sheet of music  here.  ...                                                                    
     [There are] a  lot of people who  are stealing hundreds                                                                    
     of thousands  of dollars' worth  of stolen  property to                                                                    
     just move  [it] from one area  to the next.   So that's                                                                    
     why I  think this bill  is a first very  important step                                                                    
     to  get  every  place  in the  state  online  to  where                                                                    
     everybody is having to do the same thing.                                                                                  
     This bill  is pretty generic.   What I see as  the real                                                                    
     main section  of this bill,  that ...  state[wide] they                                                                    
     have to  report to their  local police department  in a                                                                    
     format  acceptable  to  that  department,  that's  very                                                                    
     generic  language.   And that's  probably as  it should                                                                    
     be,   because  that's   what's  going   to  give   your                                                                    
     individual municipalities the  fair chance to structure                                                                    
     things how they want it.                                                                                                   
Number 345                                                                                                                      
MR. HOFFMAN  offered that he hopes  [HB 472] is going  to lay the                                                               
groundwork  for  every  police  department in  the  state  -  and                                                               
hopefully  the chiefs  of  police  association -  to  agree on  a                                                               
single system.   He mentioned that an online  or web-based system                                                               
would hopefully  be the acceptable  reporting format.   That way,                                                               
if somebody steals  something in Palmer and two  days later pawns                                                               
it in Anchorage or Fairbanks, that  agency is going to be able to                                                               
report it  to the agency that  took the (indisc.) report  and get                                                               
it resolved and get the item back to the owner.                                                                                 
Number 334                                                                                                                      
MR. HOFFMAN expressed:                                                                                                          
     I think if  any of you ask any of  your constituents in                                                                    
     any  of  the  communities that  you  represent,  you'll                                                                    
     find, I think, people are  getting very fed up with the                                                                    
     amount  of  property  theft that's  going  on  in  this                                                                    
     state.  And I think anything  we can do that's going to                                                                    
     facilitate getting  people their property back  is well                                                                    
     worth the effort.                                                                                                          
Number 332                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES  asked if the requirement  that the pawnshop                                                               
record the physical description of  the person pawning an item is                                                               
standard  operating procedure  across the  entire state,  and not                                                               
only in Anchorage and Fairbanks.                                                                                                
MR.  HOFFMAN answered  that he  believes it's  standard operating                                                               
procedure  anywhere  pawnshops  are   regulated.    For  example,                                                               
Fairbanks  has  an  ordinance  that requires  all  of  the  local                                                               
pawnshops to  complete what  are called  pawn tickets,  which are                                                               
the  same as  the pawn  tickets that  Detective Bridges  said are                                                               
used in Anchorage.  These use  carbon copies.  The person pawning                                                               
the  property gets  one copy,  the pawnshop  retains a  copy, and                                                               
then the third copy goes to the police department.                                                                              
Number 320                                                                                                                      
MR.  HOFFMAN said  Representative  Hayes had  brought up  another                                                               
very  good issue  earlier about  creating  unfunded mandates  and                                                               
whether  this will  create a  big system  that local  departments                                                               
can't support.  He described  the problem in Fairbanks right now:                                                               
nearly all agencies  are on a paper-based  system; volunteers and                                                               
police  go around  and collect  shoeboxes full  of pawn  tickets.                                                               
However,  there isn't  data-entry  staff available  to enter  all                                                               
that information  into a searchable database,  as Anchorage does.                                                               
Mr. Hoffman continued:                                                                                                          
     That's why I say what  we're looking at, down the road,                                                                    
     is really shifting  the burden of data  entry away from                                                                    
     governments  and  public   agencies  and  putting  this                                                                    
     directly  on the  pawn owners  themselves.   There's no                                                                    
     reason that when  a pawn owner does  a transaction that                                                                    
     they   shouldn't   immediately    be   inputting   that                                                                    
     transaction into  a computer  record.   ...   Then that                                                                    
     either  gets transferred  online  or we  go around  and                                                                    
     pick  up  a  disc,  as Anchorage  is  doing,  and  that                                                                    
     immediately  gets sent  up  to  a centralized  database                                                                    
     [that] all law enforcement agencies can access.                                                                            
     I think every agency --  I know Anchorage, and I'm sure                                                                    
     the troopers, as  well as us, we're all  trying to work                                                                    
     harder  and work  smarter and  work  with the  existing                                                                    
     technology.   We  don't have  the budget  to go  hire a                                                                    
     bunch of data-entry clerks and  do manual entry on pawn                                                                    
     tickets using  1950s technology.   We really  should be                                                                    
     moving  forward and  using  the information  technology                                                                    
     that's available out there.                                                                                                
Number 301                                                                                                                      
MR.  HOFFMAN,   referring  to  Representative   Hayes's  original                                                               
question,  affirmed  that  it  is  standard  operating  procedure                                                               
throughout  the  pawn  industry to  obtain  ID,  obtain  physical                                                               
descriptors, and confirm signatures.                                                                                            
Number 298                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  HAYES voiced  his  concern with  the effect  this                                                               
proposed state  law would have  on rural areas that  have village                                                               
public  safety  officers (VPSOs)  and  lack  any law  enforcement                                                               
agency.  He asked, "Is this  law pretty much going into place for                                                               
the urban areas?"                                                                                                               
MR.  HOFFMAN   answered,  "I  would  say   primarily,  because  I                                                               
personally  don't  believe that  there  are  very many  pawn  and                                                               
secondhand  stores out  in the  rural  areas."   He offered  that                                                               
people [from  a rural  area] who  have things  they need  to pawn                                                               
will probably  bring them into  Fairbanks or Anchorage  when they                                                               
come into town.   He said he  has spent a lot of  time working in                                                               
rural Alaska and has never seen a pawnshop.                                                                                     
MR. HOFFMAN  expressed that he thinks  the main part of  [HB 472]                                                               
is it requires the pawnshops to  report in a format acceptable to                                                               
the  local police  department.   He said,  "If your  local police                                                               
department is  the Alaska  State Troopers  post in,  for example,                                                               
Shungnak, they may  say it's acceptable to  our police department                                                               
that  we're not  going  to  do this  here,  because  it's not  an                                                               
issue."  He noted that  it's urban areas like Fairbanks, Wasilla,                                                               
Palmer, Anchorage, or Juneau where  local police departments will                                                               
probably want  to develop a  format for reporting and  to require                                                               
pawnshops to submit reports.                                                                                                    
Number 269                                                                                                                      
BERTHA  BAUGUS, Roy's  Pawn Shop,  testified via  teleconference,                                                               
noting that  Delta Junction is  considered rural Alaska  and that                                                               
"we do have a pawn and a  thrift store."  Speaking of herself and                                                               
Roy Baugus, who was no longer  available to testify that day, Ms.                                                               
Baugus said, "We've  been here about 20 years  and we've followed                                                               
all the rules and regulations [for a] store for pawn."                                                                          
Number 254                                                                                                                      
MS. BAUGUS informed the committee  that she doesn't have computer                                                               
access, so all  [transactions are] handwritten in [a  book].  She                                                               
said, "The  main thing we  were worried  about is the  buying and                                                               
selling of items in our thrift store  and our pawnshop.  ...  For                                                               
what  kind of  items  [are]  you asking  ...  to  be listed  with                                                               
MS.  ACHEE answered  that in  the course  of putting  forward [HB
472], a big gray  area opened up, and she thought  "it would be a                                                               
good  thing if  this  were a  place where  we  could define  what                                                               
exactly  we're looking  for."   She  said  she hadn't  considered                                                               
consignment  shops, thrift  stores, and  the Salvation  Army, for                                                               
example.    Technically,  a  person  who  steals  an  item  isn't                                                               
probably going to  take it to the Salvation Army  and drop it off                                                               
for  free, but  the  Salvation  Army is  a  dealer in  secondhand                                                               
goods.   She stated, "That does  raise a big hole  in our current                                                               
statute,  and I  think perhaps  something  along the  lines of  a                                                               
dollar  amount, perhaps,  or maybe  an average  dollar amount  in                                                               
transactions  for  the  store  as   a  whole  --  so  that  would                                                               
completely exempt things like thrift stores."                                                                                   
Number 232                                                                                                                      
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI offered  that it  seems there  is a  substantial                                                               
difference between a  pawnshop and a thrift  store or consignment                                                               
shop.   She  suggested  perhaps it  just goes  back  to issue  of                                                               
licensing for pawnbrokers.  She  said she doesn't know what those                                                               
requirements are,  but mentioned  that Ms.  Baugus had  raised an                                                               
interesting point that the sponsor  should perhaps consider.  She                                                               
asked Ms. Baugus if she had any further testimony.                                                                              
MS. BAUGUS offered  that Delta Junction is a  small town; anybody                                                               
who brings in a  stolen item is not going to  pawn it and provide                                                               
a ID,  but will try  to sell the  item.   She said she  also buys                                                               
things from  people.  She  explained that  she has been  in Delta                                                               
Junction  for  "20-some years,"  knows  just  about everybody  in                                                               
town,  and doesn't  always ask  for  an ID.   She  said when  new                                                               
people  come  in that  she  doesn't  know,  she  tries to  get  a                                                               
description.   She said if a  new person comes in  selling two or                                                               
three videos for  the thrift shop, she doesn't always  ask for an                                                               
ID.  She  noted, "That's the limit [on] the  amount I was talking                                                               
about."  She  also asked about the impact [of  HB 472] on current                                                               
CHAIR MURKOWSKI said she isn't certain.                                                                                         
Number 198                                                                                                                      
MS.  ACHEE noted  that [HB  472] lacks  an effective  date.   She                                                               
offered  that  she doesn't  think  reports  of current  inventory                                                               
would be required,  and that when an effective date  is added, it                                                               
would  be  from that  point  forward.    She said  under  current                                                               
statute,  Ms.  Baugus  should  have  been  entering  all  of  her                                                               
transactions into a record book up to this time.                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI reminded Ms. Achee  that Ms. Baugus had indicated                                                               
that she  has been  keeping the  record book,  but that  it's not                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE   KOTT  asked   if   there   are  any   additional                                                               
pawnbrokers or secondhand  store dealers waiting to  testify.  He                                                               
asked Ms.  Baugus how many  transactions she has over  the course                                                               
of a week.                                                                                                                      
Number 184                                                                                                                      
MS.  BAUGUS explained  that Delta  Junction is  a small  town and                                                               
some weeks  she might have two  pawned items, and some  weeks she                                                               
might  have six  or seven  items.   She said,  "That's about  our                                                               
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  informed Representative Kott that  there weren't                                                               
other  pawnbrokers  or  secondhand   dealers  online  waiting  to                                                               
Number 171                                                                                                                      
JULIA  GRIMES, Lieutenant,  Division  of  Alaska State  Troopers,                                                               
Department of  Public Safety, testified via  teleconference.  She                                                               
said she was  online to listen and to answer  any questions.  She                                                               
explained that she hasn't been  able to get together with Captain                                                               
Brown to  find out what  he has  discussed with the  sponsor, and                                                               
said she  hesitates to add a  whole lot.  She  mentioned that the                                                               
state troopers throughout the state  want to be able to cooperate                                                               
and work in  concert with any police department to  "have a large                                                               
net  around the  state  to try  to be  effective  in finding  and                                                               
recovering  stolen property."   She  concluded, "So  we certainly                                                               
are in support of the intent of this bill."                                                                                     
Number 155                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HAYES expressed surprise that  [HB 472] has a zero                                                               
fiscal note.   He asked Ms.  Grimes, if the state  troopers don't                                                               
currently record any  of this information, whether  the cost will                                                               
just be absorbed into current operations.                                                                                       
MS. GRIMES surmised  that would be the case.   With regard to the                                                               
fiscal  note, she  said she  suspects that  the reports  from the                                                               
more rural areas would not be  substantial, and could be filed or                                                               
entered  into  a  computer  database with  little  impact.    She                                                               
suggested  it wouldn't  be a  whole lot  more than  just creating                                                               
either a hardcopy or a computerized  database.  She offered to do                                                               
further research on this issue.                                                                                                 
Number 122                                                                                                                      
MS.  BRIDGES added  that she  frequently gets  pawn tickets  from                                                               
out-of-state agencies.   She'd just  received one  from Longview,                                                               
Washington, for  example, and  one from  Mesa, Arizona,  and both                                                               
have physical descriptors.   She offered that  "it's a nationwide                                                               
thing to put physical descriptors on the pawn ticket."                                                                          
MS. ACHEE  agreed and  said Arizona,  Florida, and  Illinois also                                                               
require a  physical description, so it's  not completely unusual.                                                               
She added:                                                                                                                      
     Since  this scenario  has  arisen  where someone  could                                                                    
     present a  false ID, having  a physical  description of                                                                    
     the person  in addition  to a  name off  an ID  card is                                                                    
     probably  a  good thing.    Whether  the pawnshops  are                                                                    
     reading it straight  off the ID or  actually looking at                                                                    
     the person is another question.                                                                                            
MS. ACHEE  related her understanding  that if stolen  property is                                                               
found, the  pawnshop loses the  money it  paid to the  person who                                                               
pawned the  item; she  surmised that  Detective Bridges  might be                                                               
able  to verify  that assumption.    She added,  "Perhaps if  you                                                               
could identify that person with  certainty, then the pawnshop has                                                               
some civil [action] against them."                                                                                              
MS.  BRIDGES said  Ms. Achee's  interpretation is  correct.   She                                                               
added  that  if [the  APD  is]  able  to prosecute,  it  requests                                                               
restitution for  the pawnshop as part  of the penalty or  as part                                                               
of the punishment if the thief is  found guilty.  She said if the                                                               
pawnshops wanted  to go as far  as putting a lien  on the thief's                                                               
permanent  fund [dividend],  for  example, the  courts can  order                                                               
Number 084                                                                                                                      
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  acknowledged that  there  have  been some  good                                                               
issues and points of concern raised.   She said without going too                                                               
far  with HB  472,  and  looking at  the  statutes that  regulate                                                               
pawnshops, she  believes there  is probably  some room  to update                                                               
and revise certain areas of that statute.  She continued:                                                                       
     Specifically, when  it refers  to the book,  you'd hate                                                                    
     to  think  that  what  is happening  in  Anchorage  and                                                                    
     Fairbanks is  being done of  violation of  the statutes                                                                    
     right  now.   But from  what  I've heard  and what  I'm                                                                    
     reading, it sounds  like that's possibly the  case.  So                                                                    
     this could  be a good  opportunity to really  bring the                                                                    
     statutes current.   And then  I think - just  in [terms                                                                    
     of]  how   we  can   deal  with   this  issue   of  the                                                                    
     consignment,  the  thrift  shops,  the  Play  It  Again                                                                    
     Sports scenario  - I think  this is a  good opportunity                                                                    
     to kind of work it through.                                                                                                
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  offered her  time and her  staff's time  to work                                                               
with Representative Green to find a good way to do this.                                                                        
Number 061                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT  suggested that  in working with  the sponsor                                                               
and his  staff, Representative Murkowski might  also consult with                                                               
some of  the pawnbrokers.   He  said he was  hoping to  hear from                                                               
some pawnbrokers to see if  the proposed recording mechanism used                                                               
to submit  to the police department  is onerous.  He  said he was                                                               
curious how many transactions a  pawnbroker might have in a week.                                                               
He said  he's never  been in  a pawnshop.   He suggested  that if                                                               
there are  thousands of transactions  a month, maybe  a threshold                                                               
should be established  whereby only items valued at  over $5 need                                                               
to be recorded.                                                                                                                 
Number 040                                                                                                                      
MS. ACHEE  added that unfortunately the  local representative for                                                               
the National Pawnbrokers Association  was unable to testify today                                                               
because she was out of town.                                                                                                    
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  said she thinks  this can be worked  through and                                                               
offered  to  help,  but  without forming  a  subcommittee.    She                                                               
thanked the  sponsor and all who'd  testified.  [HB 472  was held                                                               
HB 128-EMPLOYMENT OF MINORS IN AGRICULTURE                                                                                    
TAPE 02-30, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
CHAIR MURKOWSKI announced that the  final order of business would                                                               
be HOUSE BILL NO. 128, "An  Act relating to employment of certain                                                               
minors in  agriculture."   She noted  that last  year HB  128 was                                                               
assigned to a subcommittee chaired by Representative Rokeberg.                                                                  
Number 036                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  moved  that  the  committee  adopt  the                                                               
proposed committee substitute  (CS) [version 22-LS0373\O, Kramer,                                                               
2/7/02],  which  was  recommended  by the  subcommittee,  as  the                                                               
working  document.   There  being  no  objection, Version  O  was                                                               
before the committee.                                                                                                           
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG remarked  that the  primary issue  is in                                                               
regard to  the seven-day  [time period for  the employer  to file                                                               
the written parental consent].                                                                                                  
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  related her understanding  that the issue  is in                                                               
regard to  whether the seven days  is adequate, too much,  or too                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG agreed.                                                                                                 
Number 079                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE  SCOTT OGAN,  Alaska State  Legislature, testified                                                               
as the sponsor of  HB 128.  In regard to  the seven-day issue, he                                                               
related his belief that it's  a compromise.  He acknowledged that                                                               
in  some parts  of the  state  it may  be difficult  to meet  the                                                               
seven-day  requirement.   He  remarked, "I  think  this is  good,                                                               
commonsense legislation."   Furthermore, Representative Ogan said                                                               
he feels  this legislation will result  in a cost savings  to the                                                               
Department of  Labor & Workforce  Development (DLWD),  because it                                                               
won't have to deal with every case.                                                                                             
Number 104                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO highlighted that the  title of the bill has                                                               
been broadened quite a bit.   Originally, the bill addressed only                                                               
agriculture,   whereas   now   it   addresses   all   industries.                                                               
Representative Halcro inquired as  to whether Representative Ogan                                                               
is supportive of broadening the title to include all industries.                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGAN  replied  yes.   Although  this  legislation                                                               
began  in an  attempt to  address agriculture,  he felt  it would                                                               
work well with all employers of minors.                                                                                         
Number 139                                                                                                                      
REBECCA  NANCE   GAMEZ,  Deputy   Commissioner,  Office   of  the                                                               
Commissioner,  Department  of   Labor  &  Workforce  Development,                                                               
announced that the department is  comfortable with moving forward                                                               
with Version O.   There is a  draft fiscal note of  $22,500 for a                                                               
one-time  expense for  legal  services,  public notices,  hearing                                                               
space, and  revising and reprinting  posters and pamphlets.   The                                                               
fiscal  note  will be  transmitted  tomorrow.   She  related  her                                                               
belief that [Version O] is a good compromise.                                                                                   
CHAIR MURKOWSKI  asked whether the  seven-day period  is workable                                                               
for the department.                                                                                                             
Number 166                                                                                                                      
RICHARD  MASTRIANO,  Director,  Division  of  Labor  Standards  &                                                               
Safety, Department  of Labor  & Workforce  Development, testified                                                               
via   teleconference,  saying   the   seven-day  requirement   is                                                               
reasonable and acceptable.  Although  the [department] would like                                                               
that  time to  be  shorter, everyone  is  compromising [with  the                                                               
seven days].  He pointed out  that if the legislation works as it                                                               
should, then [the division] will  have reviewed the jobs prior to                                                               
the minors' working.                                                                                                            
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI asked  whether [the  division] has  to have  the                                                               
original  copy and  thus the  "written consent"  could be  faxed.                                                               
She  also asked  whether [the  division] can  accept the  consent                                                               
form from the parent in writing.                                                                                                
MR. MASTRIANO  replied yes.   He  explained that  the plan  is to                                                               
redesign  the  current  work  permit  and  use  it  for  parental                                                               
consent.   [The division] currently accepts  a parental signature                                                               
that is faxed.                                                                                                                  
Number 194                                                                                                                      
REPRESENTATIVE HALCRO  recalled testimony  in hearings  last year                                                               
that the  turnaround time for  these approvals was  fairly quick.                                                               
He inquired as to how this worked last summer.                                                                                  
MR. MASTRIANO answered that the  turnaround time was a bit longer                                                               
this summer  due to [the  division's] shortage of personnel.   He                                                               
explained  that usually  the  division  assigns one  investigator                                                               
daily to  review the work permits,  and one clerk.   However, the                                                               
[division]  was short  an investigator  and there  was difficulty                                                               
keeping a clerk in that position.   In some cases, the turnaround                                                               
time  was about  three days,  although every  effort was  made to                                                               
respond within 24 hours.                                                                                                        
MR.  MASTRIANO, in  further  response  to Representative  Halcro,                                                               
said  there  have  been  instances in  which  the  applicant  was                                                               
denied.  For example, he recalled  a couple of instances in which                                                               
minors were  employed in establishments that  sold alcohol; those                                                               
minors weren't  old enough  to work  in those  establishments and                                                               
thus were  denied.   He also  recalled a denial  for a  child who                                                               
wasn't old enough to work in the construction area.                                                                             
Number 247                                                                                                                      
LARRY  DeVILBISS, Wolverine  Farm  & Farm  Bureau, testified  via                                                               
teleconference.   Mr. DeVilbiss thanked Representatives  Ogan and                                                               
Rokeberg  for  working this  out.    Last  week, he  noted,  this                                                               
[legislation]  was presented  to  the Alaska  Farm Bureau,  which                                                               
supports  the  bill  even  though  it  is  broader  than  it  was                                                               
originally.   Mr. DeVilbiss pointed  out that he'd  read [Version                                                               
O] to  allow the old option  to be used  if it works and  if some                                                               
elements  of this  [legislation] don't  work in  some industries.                                                               
Mr. DeVilbiss said it seems to be a win-win situation.                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE  ROKEBERG  explained  that  the  bill  requires  a                                                               
preinspection,  but [the  division]  can  default to  [subsection                                                               
(a)],  which requires  sending in  the application  and obtaining                                                               
approval; the youth can work until  there is a response [from the                                                               
division].  He agreed that this is a win-win situation.                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE  MEYER  moved  to  report CSHB  128  [version  22-                                                               
LS0373\O,  Kramer,  2/7/02]  out  of  committee  with  individual                                                               
recommendations  and the  pending fiscal  note.   There being  no                                                               
objection, CSHB  128(L&C) was  moved out of  the House  Labor and                                                               
Commerce Standing Committee.                                                                                                    
CHAIR  MURKOWSKI  mentioned the  possibility  that  HB 128  would                                                               
receive  an additional  referral to  the House  Finance Committee                                                               
due to the pending fiscal note.                                                                                                 
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Labor and  Commerce Standing Committee  meeting was  adjourned at                                                               
5:10 p.m.                                                                                                                       

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