Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/10/1994 03:00 PM L&C
* first hearing in first committee of referral
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE LABOR AND COMMERCE STANDING COMMITTEE February 10, 1994 3:00 p.m. MEMBERS PRESENT Rep. Bill Hudson, Chair Rep. Joe Green, Vice Chair Rep. Brian Porter Rep. Joe Sitton Rep. Jerry Mackie Rep. Bill Williams MEMBERS ABSENT Rep. Eldon Mulder COMMITTEE CALENDAR *HB 386: "An Act relating to the retirement rights of hourly employees hired by the legislature." PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE *HB 145: "An Act requiring pay equity for certain public employees and requiring the compensation of certain public employees based on the value of work performed." PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE *HB 326: "An Act providing that a political use is not an authorized use of charitable gaming proceeds; prohibiting the contribution of charitable gaming proceeds to candidates for certain public offices, their campaign organizations, or to political groups; providing that a political group is not a qualified organization for purposes of charitable gaming; relating to what is a qualified organization for the purpose of charitable gaming permitting; and providing for an effective date." HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE *HB 308: "An Act prohibiting the direct or indirect contribution or payment of the net proceeds of a bingo or pull-tab game to candidates for public office; and relating to the definition of `political organization' as that term is used in the laws relating to charitable gaming." HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE (* First public hearing.) WITNESS REGISTER TIM BENINTENDI, Staff Rep. Carl Moses Alaska State Legislature State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 465-4451 Position Statement: Read sponsor statement for HB 386 PAM STOOPS, Executive Director Legislative Affairs Agency 130 Seward St. Juneau, Alaska 99801-2197 465-3800 Position Statement: Supported HB 386 DIANE LINDBECK, Staff Rep. Fran Ulmer Alaska State Legislature State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 465-4947 Position Statement: Represented prime sponsor of HB 145 KEVIN RITCHIE, Director Division of Personnel/EEO Department of Administration P.O. Box 110201 Juneau, Alaska 99811-0201 465-4430 Position Statement: Addressed HB 145 DEBORAH TAYLOR 2914 Leightone St. Anchorage, Alaska 99517 248-7588 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 (Spoke via teleconference) RICHARD SEWARD 315 Barnette St. Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 452-2300 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 (Spoke via teleconference) THERESA ANDERSON 1237 Kennicott Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 451-5236 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 (Spoke via teleconference) DWYTE HUTCHINSON 733 20th Ave. Fairbanks, Alaska 99701 456-4895 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 (Spoke via teleconference) BARBARA BINKER P.O. Box 74868 Fairbanks, Alaska 99707 451-5249 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 (Spoke via teleconference) CATHY DIETRICH 1951 Red Leaf Rd. Fairbanks, Alaska 99709 452-2300 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 (Spoke via teleconference) MARLENE RICE P.O. Box 81741 Fairbanks, Alaska 99708 457-7641 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 (Spoke via teleconference) CAREN ROBINSON League of Women Voters P.O. Box 240423 Douglas, Alaska 99824 364-2154 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 SHERRIE GOLL Alaska Women's Lobby P.O. Box 22156 Juneau, Alaska 99802 463-6744 Position Statement: Supported HB 145 REP. GENE THERRIAULT Alaska State Legislature State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 465-4797 Position Statement: Prime sponsor of HB 308 REP. TERRY MARTIN Alaska State Legislature State Capitol Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182 465-3783 Position Statement: Prime sponsor of HB 326 MANO FREY, Executive President AFL-CIO 2501 Commercial Drive Anchorage, Alaska 99501 258-6284 Position Statement: Opposed HB 308 and HB 326 PREVIOUS ACTION BILL: HB 386 SHORT TITLE: RETIREMENT RTS:HRLY LEGISLATIVE EMPLOYEES SPONSOR(S): RULES JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/18/94 2098 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 01/18/94 2099 (H) LABOR & COMMERCE 02/10/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17 BILL: HB 145 SHORT TITLE: PAY EQUITY BASED ON VALUE OF WORK SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ULMER,Sitton,Brown,Brice JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 04/20/83 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17 02/10/93 292 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 02/10/93 292 (H) L&C, STATE AFFAIRS, FINANCE 03/26/93 808 (H) COSPONSOR(S): BRICE 04/20/93 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17 02/10/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17 BILL: HB 326 SHORT TITLE: GAMING PROCEEDS/DEFINE CHARITABLE ORG'NS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Olberg,Green JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/03/94 2012 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 01/10/94 2012 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 01/10/94 2012 (H) L&C, STA, JUDICIARY, FINANCE 01/13/94 2054 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG 01/14/94 2083 (H) COSPONSOR(S): GREEN 02/10/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17 BILL: HB 308 SHORT TITLE: LIMIT POLITICAL USE OF GAMBLING PROCEEDS SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Olberg,Porter JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION 01/03/94 2007 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 01/10/94 2007 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S) 01/10/94 2007 (H) L&C, STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE 01/13/94 2053 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG, PORTER 02/10/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17 ACTION NARRATIVE TAPE 94-11, SIDE A Number 001 CHAIRMAN HUDSON called the meeting to order at 3:10 p.m. Number 020 HB 386 - RETIREMENT RTS:HRLY LEGISLATIVE EMPLOYEES TIM BENINTENDI, staff, Rep. Carl Moses, gave the following sponsor statement: HB 386 has two main objections: One, to provide an avenue for cost saving opportunities for the Legislative Affairs Agency, and two, to expand flexibility when hiring nonpermanent workers. MR. BENINTENDI noted that the sponsor has offered a committee substitute (CS) for the committee's benefit that more clearly states the intent to distinguish between permanent hourly and temporary who would be hired without the retirement benefits. Number 034 REP. MACKIE asked what they continued hourly employees. Number 046 PAM STOOPS, Executive Director, Legislative Affairs Agency, explained that the hourly employees referenced here would be in maintenance and supply when hired for a short duration, summer tour guide people, persons retired from the state that might work temporarily in the print shop. Also, in Public Services the Agency hires hourly employees to moderate teleconferences. MS. STOOPS noted that these people could go back and pay back the costs and pick up this temporary retirement time. REP. MACKIE asked if this would affect session only staff. MS. STOOPS responded that this would not affect his current staff; they are considered monthly paid seasonals. Number 080 CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if this would affect any of the bargaining units. MS. STOOPS responded no. She added that the executive branch has used this classification for years. Number 085 REP. SITTON asked if these employees would receive benefits such as workers' compensation. Number 090 MS. STOOPS responded yes. Number 105 REP. MACKIE asked if there was or will there be a specific policy to describe exactly the employees referenced. He expressed a specific concern that HB 386 not provide a means to hire employees and skirt around the benefits. Number 120 MS. STOOPS reiterated her desire to have the flexibility to hire as needed. REP. PORTER moved to adopt the L&C committee substitute for HB 386. No objections were heard; it was so ordered. REP. PORTER moved CSHB 386(L&C) with individual recommendations and a negative fiscal note. No objections were heard; it was so ordered. Number 204 HB 145 - PAY EQUITY BASED ON VALUE OF WORK DIANE LINDBECK, staff, Rep. Fran Ulmer, Prime Sponsor of HB 145, testified that HB 145 has been before the legislature before. She stated that it basically provides a mechanism for providing pay equity for public employees. Ms. Lindbeck stated that when a job class is dominated by primarily one gender, they are not comparably paid. MS. LINDBECK stated that in Alaska as well as the rest of the nation women on average are paid less than men for comparable work. These wage disparities exist not just between individuals but between job classes. MS. LINDBECK concluded by saying that passage HB 145 would set the standard for pay equity. CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked what the difference was between pay equity and comparable worth. Number 250 KEVIN RITCHIE, Director, Division of Personnel/EEO, Department of Administration, testified that the system proposed in HB 145 classifies each job on the same list of factors. Taking a certain number of job factors; i.e., number of people supervised, consequence of error in judgement for example; you rank each job, equating pay, with how they rank on the same set of factors. This is a more objective way of setting pay than the state uses right now. MR. RITCHIE believed the words comparable worth versus pay equity are the same thing. Number 275 CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked about a study commissioned years ago to do the basic groundwork on how are existing system compared with providing equitable pay for all state workers. Number 284 MR. RITCHIE explained that the Department of Administration proposes to revise the Alaska Quantitative Evaluation System done in 1986, bringing it up to date and implementing it. Number 291 REP. PORTER asked if the fiscal note provided is for the purpose stated above. Number 295 MR. RITCHIE responded yes. He added that the Department strongly recommends that the committee consider the substitute provided that would accomplish the same end through a different vehicle. Number 325 DEBORAH TAYLOR testified via teleconference in support of HB 145. Ms. Taylor gave as an example of pay inequity the male dominated grant coordinator position at a range 18 versus the female dominated eligibility technician in the Division of Public assistance at a range 13. She said this bill needs to be passed out of committee to lift the morale of those employees who are not receiving fair pay for comparable work. Number 356 RICHARD SEWARD, Alaska State Employees Association (ASEA), testified via teleconference in support of HB 145. Mr. Seward stated that the ASEA is a national leader on pay equity. Mr. Seward added that they have done studies in this area in Alaska and have found that a majority of jobs are segregated by sex. He noted that 48% of all state jobs had 70% or more men, while 24% of all job classes had 70% or more women. Of the 13,542 employees surveyed, 55% were men and 45% were women, but 39% of all state employees are now working in male dominated job classes and 32% of all employees are in female dominated job classes. He stated there is a pay difference between the male and female dominated job classes. Mr. Seward advised that a female earns 75 cents to the dollar earned by men. MR. SEWARD related to the committee that his study showed that if no academic requirements are found in the minimum qualifications for a job, the woman will earn 72 cents to the dollar earned by the man. If high school is required, the woman will earn 87 cents to the man's dollar. If a technical degree is required, the woman earns 71 cents to the man's dollar. With a college degree, the woman earns 87 cents to the man's dollar. MR. SEWARD stated that ASEA strongly opposes the administration's proposal for two reasons: 1) it does away with collective bargaining, and 2) it will not benefit the women on the state payroll now. Number 415 CHAIRMAN HUDSON commented, if Mr. Seward had a plan that would show how to implement a pay equity plan without increasing the budget, please send it. Number 420 MR. SEWARD replied that he would be glad to forward to the committee the experience gathered from other states. Number 439 REP. PORTER asked Mr. Seward what the gender split in ASEA's membership was. Number 441 MR. SEWARD responded that within the general membership there was between 52 to 55% female. Number 455 REP. WILLIAMS asked, when the study was done, did it compare the same types of jobs? Number 460 MR. SEWARD explained that the study looked at all job classes that required a college degree for someone to get on the list to be hired into that job and then it compared the pay of all the jobs classes requiring a college degree. It was then divided up into those job classes where there was 70% or more of the employees who were women compared to those classes where 70% or more of the employees were men. The only common characteristic was that each had to have a college degree to be hired; then the study compared the pay. Number 470 REP. MACKIE asked if they were the same jobs. For instance, two people working side-by-side doing the exact same thing, with the male making more then the female. Number 486 MR. SEWARD stated that if a job class is primarily filled by women, then the pay range is likely to be less then a similar job class filled primarily be men. MR. SEWARD used the example of nurse practitioner largely filled by women versus physician assistants largely filled by men. They generally do the same thing day by day, but the physician assistants make more money. REP. PORTER asked why the union allowed the wage disparities to happen in the first place. Number 514 MR. SEWARD responded that his predecessor took it to court and the Supreme Court ruled that everyone in the same job class had to be paid the same. The law of the land is not comparable worth and the court couldn't do anything to help the women. So the union came to the legislature for help. Number 522 REP. PORTER asked if the union is or will be negotiating with the state on the positions that the union feels are underpaid. Number 527 MR. SEWARD said the state is refusing to bargain on these proposals. He added that the state does not have to bargain on which job classes they pay what pay ranges; they only have to bargain on the dollar amount given to the ranges. Number 550 THERESA ANDERSON testified via teleconference in support of HB 145. She said many men and women who are the sole support of their families need pay equity. MS. ANDERSON stated that the wage gap between men and women was even narrower in 1955 then it was in 1984. This gap will never close until pay equity is the law. The state budget should not be balanced on the backs of the females of the state or the males who are in the job classes dominated by females. MS. ANDERSON noted that employers set wages using factors of which market value of supply and demand is only one. Other factors include internal equity, pay progression methods and comparative structure. The external market does not exist independently, it is created by wage setting decisions by employers with constraints placed on it by existing laws. She noted that, despite decreases in the supply of clerical workers and nurses in 1985, wages did not increase automatically for these jobs. TAPE 94-10, SIDE B Number 001 MS. ANDERSON said the state continues to deny or explain away the differences between the wages between men and women, ignoring study after study. The state finally proposes that women switch jobs if they want more pay. MS. ANDERSON concluded by saying that pay equity has been studied in the past but not implemented. She suggested that the state doesn't need more studies, but needs to apply sound compensation principals to men's jobs as well as women's. CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked if Ms. Anderson knew of any models the legislature could look at to help them in their deliberation. MS. ANDERSON stated that she was not advocating lowering the male dominated wages; it is illegal, but there are states, such as Minnesota, that have implemented pay equity and have been very successful. She added that the information is readily available. Number 075 REP. ULMER stated that HB 145 is modeled on the Minnesota law. She added that federal law states that you cannot implement wage equity on the backs of someone else. Number 117 REP. PORTER asked if there is a federal law on comparable worth. Number 120 REP. ULMER responded that there is a federal law and they requested the states to pass and implement their own. Number 125 REP. PORTER asked Rep. Ulmer is she was aware of any suits brought in the states that challenged the situation that a generally similar qualification requirement in one class versus another class that has a pay equity problem is unconstitutional. REP. ULMER responded that the State of Washington went through lengthy litigation regarding this issue. Number 134 DWYTE HUTCHINSON testified via teleconference in support of HB 145. He stated that he is in a very dominated field; he feels that the responsibilities and technical work he is required to do is well beyond the level of pay he is at now. Number 155 BARBARA BINKER testified via teleconference that this issue is plain and simple one of fairness to everyone. Ms. Binker supported HB 145. She said women don't want back pay, they just want to be treated fairly. Ms. Binker stated she wants to see her daughter be able to choose a career and make a comfortable living at it. Number 183 KATHY DIETRICH testified via teleconference that she is in support of HB 145. She stated that the administration's proposal is more then just a change in the vehicle, it's a substantive change. She explained that, currently, if your job class is determined to be improperly classed, then those in the job class would move to the new range, but they would take their present step with them to the new range. The administration's proposal would eliminate that. MS. DIETRICH stated that it is past the time when women are going out to work for curtain money. Most of the women in the work force today are doing it out of necessity. But this is not a women's issue, she said, it is an issue of fairness for both men and women. MS. DIETRICH expressed frustration at the thought of more studies being done. She said, let's stop studying the issue and implement pay equity. Number 270 REP. MACKIE expressed support for this issue but admitted that at times it is confusing and he did not want his line of questions to be misconstrued to mean he was against the bill. Number 300 MARLENE RICE testified via teleconference in support of HB 145. She stated that she was frustrated with having to show persons that make double and triple what she makes how to work the computer. She has applied for jobs in the upper ranges only to come in second to a man. Ms. Rice stated she wanted to know how come her sons, who just graduated high school, are making what she does after four years on the job. Number 333 CAREN ROBINSON, League of Women Voters, testified in support of HB 145. She stated that in 1963 President John F. Kennedy signed into law the equal pay act guaranteeing women equal pay for equal work. Now, 31 years later, women are still 30% behind men in earnings. MS. ROBINSON stated that female dominated jobs are undervalued. She added that this bias has to stop, and she believes it's time to stop studying it and do something about it. MS. ROBINSON added that the state may find some savings in some aid programs if it would pay women fairly for the work that they do. Number 385 SHERRIE GOLL, Alaska Women's Lobby, testified in support of HB 145. She stated that Margaret Mead, the noted anthropologist, has said that there was a pervasive social bias against the value of women's work and that it occurs in almost all human cultures. In Ms. Mead's work she found many villages in which the women fish and the men weave, and what was similar in these villages was that the work done by women was less valued. MS. GOLL stated that the discrimination against women goes back to 1865 when the federal government bought its first typewriter. Female clerks were paid $600.00 per year and male clerks $1200.00 per year. MS. GOLL added that in the old days the reason given for the inequality was that the men were the bread winners, but as we know now, we have many families headed by women. MS. GOLL concluded by saying that the administration's proposal is basically the way the earlier bill was killed because it eliminates collective bargaining. REP. PORTER asked what the basic differences were between the original bill and the administration's proposal. MR. RITCHIE answered that the vehicle was essentially the same. The proposal is not a method of creating equity between the sexes only or identifying some jobs and raising them, it's basically a fundamental change in the entire classification system. MR. RITCHIE stated that one difference is that the study will be implemented under the administration's proposal. He believes that a partial implementation is detrimental to the issue. Lastly, the administration's proposal has a meet and confer type of relationship with the union rather then negotiating. Number 500 REP. ULMER stated that the CS eliminates the ability of the union to bargain and would eliminate the ability to get any pay increases as a result of the pay equity determination. Number 503 REP. PORTER summed up what he believes the differences to be. He said both approaches do a study and reach the same results; HB 145 would allow the study to be used in actual labor negotiations, as opposed to the administration's approach to meet and confer with the union, but the results of the study would be implemented in any event. Number 520 CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated he felt the committee had a good grasp of this issue. He added that this issue seemed to be boiling down to the financing of the implementation and not any disagreement of the concept of the fairness issue. CHAIRMAN HUDSON gave a brief history of his dealings with job classifications and their pay ranges. CHAIRMAN HUDSON stated that the question is, how do we determine what the new classes aught to be, what will be the cost, and how will we implement it? Number 565 REP. MACKIE moved HB 145 with individual recommendations and a zero fiscal note. No objections were heard; it was so ordered. TAPE 94-11, SIDE A Number 001 HB 308 - LIMIT POLITICAL USE OF GAMBLING PROCEEDS HB 326 - GAMING PROCEEDS/DEFINE CHARITABLE ORG'NS REP. GENE THERRIAULT, Prime Sponsor of HB 308, stated that basically he introduced the bill because he believes charitable gambling should be just that. The proceeds should go to charity and not political parties. He said HB 308 would modify current statutes by adding a provision to prohibit the use of net proceeds from charitable gaming activities for candidates for public office or that candidate's organization. He stated HB 308 would also expand the definition of a political organization to include political parties. Current definitions limit "political organizations" to organizations or clubs organized for or formally affiliated with a political party. This expansion will cover all political and quasi-political organizations and supplement the effect of Section 1. Number 075 REP. TERRY MARTIN explained that when you mix gambling and politics and it becomes acceptable you have the worst scenario for corrupt government. REP. MARTIN stated that Alaska is the only state that allows political parties or candidates to receive money from gaming. This bill would prohibit this. REP. MARTIN believed that the political parties end up competing for the same dollars with charities. Number 192 REP. MACKIE asked Rep. Martin to describe to him how money from gaming causes corrupt government and also how that is different from someone getting money from an oil company or from any other interest group. Number 235 REP. MARTIN responded that he has looked through the files of APOC. He brought up the file of the District 11 Democrats where each month the proceeds from the Northern Light Bingo parlor goes into their fund and whoever is in charge of the District 11 Democrats is in charge of funneling the money back out to candidates. REP. MARTIN gave more examples of how the money comes in and how it's funneled out. Number 300 REP. MACKIE asked again how gaming money, as opposed to oil money, causes corruption in government. He said it's all legal. Number 320 REP. MARTIN responded that history shows us that it causes corruption. Also, there are no limits on what can be given. Number 340 REP. MACKIE asked for an example of corruption and stated that he believes this bill would just be legislating morality. Number 350 REP. MARTIN responded with some facts about some state legislators getting into trouble in various states involving gambling. Number 365 REP. THERRIAULT stated that he didn't believe the people of Alaska meant for charitable gaming proceeds to be funneled into politics. He added that the key word is "charitable." REP. MACKIE suggested that if disclosure was the objection, then why not post a sign at the pull tab location stating who owned the permit and where the proceeds will go and allow people to make their own judgments. Number 391 REP. GREEN asked how permits are acquired now. Number 420 REP. MARTIN responded with an explanation of the current law. Number 450 CHAIRMAN HUDSON asked the Director of Gaming to prepare for the committee a laymen summary of how the application is made, what controls the Division has on applicants, and what percentage goes into charity versus political parties and operations. Number 482 MANO FREY, Executive President, AFL/CIO, testified against HB 308 and HB 326. Mr. Frey stated that the AFL/CIO does have a gaming permit, but does not make any direct political contributions. He added that they rely on the proceeds from their gaming permits to run their operations and staff. MR. FREY added that he is also the business manager of Local 341 and that organization does utilize its gaming proceeds to make political contributions to candidates. But most of the proceeds go toward scholarships, little league and other community events. MR. FREY stated that HB 326 would hurt the Laborer's chance to make money in this way and he expressed resentment at the fact that his organization is being signaled out. Number 530 CHAIRMAN HUDSON announced he would hold HB 308 and HB 326 over for more information. CHAIRMAN HUDSON adjourned the meeting at 5:22 p.m.