Legislature(2023 - 2024)GRUENBERG 120
02/17/2023 01:30 PM House JUDICIARY
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| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HJR3 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| += | HJR 3 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
February 17, 2023
1:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Sarah Vance, Chair
Representative Jamie Allard, Vice Chair
Representative Ben Carpenter
Representative Craig Johnson
Representative David Eastman
Representative Andrew Gray
Representative Cliff Groh
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3
Encouraging Congress to pass the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act
or a similar bill.
- MOVED CSHJR 3(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HJR 3
SHORT TITLE: CONCEALED HANDGUN RECIPROCITY B/W STATES
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) RAUSCHER
02/01/23 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/01/23 (H) JUD, STA
02/10/23 (H) JUD AT 1:30 PM GRUENBERG 120
02/10/23 (H) Heard & Held
02/10/23 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
02/17/23 (H) JUD AT 1:30 PM GRUENBERG 120
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE RAUSCHER
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: As prime sponsor, offered information
during the hearing on HJR 3.
RYAN MCKEE, Staff
Representative George Rauscher
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on
HJR 3, on behalf of Representative Rauscher, prime sponsor.
CORNELIUS SIMS, Captain
Alaska State Troopers
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions during the hearing on
HJR 3.
ACTION NARRATIVE
1:30:14 PM
CHAIR SARAH VANCE called the House Judiciary Standing Committee
meeting to order at 1:30 p.m. Representatives Allard, C.
Johnson, Eastman, Gray, Groh and Vance were present at the call
to order. Representative Carpenter arrived as the meeting was
in progress.
HJR 3-CONCEALED HANDGUN RECIPROCITY B/W STATES
1:30:42 PM
CHAIR VANCE announced that the only order of business would be
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3, Encouraging Congress to pass the
Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act or a similar bill.
1:31:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE RAUSCHER, Alaska State Legislature, prime
sponsor, provided introductory remarks on HJR 3. He paraphrased
the sponsor statement [included in the committee packet], which
read as follows [original punctuation provided]:
House Joint Resolution 3 would encourage Congress to
amend the federal criminal code to allow an individual
who is qualified to carry or possess a concealed
handgun in one state to be allowed to also carry or
possess a concealed handgun in another state that also
allows individuals to carry concealed firearms.
This Resolution would also request that Congress enact
the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (H.R. 38) from the
117th Congress, or a similar bill.
1:32:42 PM
RYAN MCKEE, Staff, Representative George Rauscher, Alaska State
Legislature, responded to unanswered questions from the previous
bill hearing, on behalf of Representative Rauscher, prime
sponsor of HJR 3. He confirmed that nonresidents visiting a
state would need to abide by that state's concealed carry laws.
He reiterated that H.R. 38 [the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act]
would allow individuals with concealed carry privileges in their
home state to exercise those rights in any other state that
allowed concealed carry while still abiding by that state's
laws. He added that the goal of the congressional bill was to
reduce confusion and legal inconsistencies for responsible gun
owners when traveling outside their home state. In response to
a previous hypothetical question, he indicated that a
nonresident with a concealed carry permit would not be allowed
to freely carry or possess a concealed handgun in a state that
decided to ban concealed carry permits. However, he pointed out
that if a state were to eliminate all concealed carry permits,
litigation would likely follow.
CHAIR VANCE invited questions from members of the committee.
1:34:47 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY shared his understanding that if H.R. 38
were to pass, individuals would be required to obey the
concealed carry laws of both their home state and states they
travel to. He asked how that differed from existing policy.
MR. MCKEE explained that if H.R. 38 were to pass, a nonresident
traveling through California [with a concealed carry permit from
his/her home state] would have to abide by the state's concealed
carry laws, as opposed to the laws of his/her home state.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY reported that Vermont allowed 16-year-olds
to obtain a concealed carry permit; further, that 18 stated
allowed 18-year-olds to acquire concealed carry permits. He
sought to confirm that 18-year-olds traveling from those states
to Alaska would be allowed to carry concealed with a valid
permit from their home state.
MR. MCKEE explained that an Alaskan traveling to Vermont would
be legally required to abide by Vermont's concealed carry laws.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY restated his question, asking whether an 18-
year-old traveling to Alaska from those states in which 18-year-
olds were allowed to obtain a concealed carry permit would be
permitted to carry concealed with a valid permit from his/her
home state.
MR. MCKEE deferred the question to Captain Sims.
1:38:26 PM
CORNELIUS SIMS, Captain, Alaska State Troopers, stated that any
nonresident traveling to Alaska with a concealed carry permit
would be required to obey the state's laws, meaning that 18-
year-olds would not be allowed to carry concealed.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY asked how H.R. 38 would impact reciprocity
across states.
MR. MCKEE said the proposed resolution was aimed at states with
"may issue" permitting laws. He explained that currently, it
would be illegal for anyone 21 or older from Alaska to travel to
New Jersey, for example, and other "may issue" states, with a
concealed handgun. However, if H.R. 38 were to pass, the
congressional bill would allow Alaskans to carry concealed in
New Jersey, as long as they abided by the state's laws.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER conveyed that H.R. 38 required
nonresidents with concealed carry permits to carry the
documentation with them while traveling concealed to or through
other states. The destination states would then be required to
recognize the concealed carry permits.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY highlighted the contradictory responses. He
shared his understanding that Captain Sims had stated that an
18-year-old's concealed carry permit from his/her home state
would not be valid in Alaska because Alaska's minimum age is 21.
He inferred that reciprocity would not apply for someone under
the age of 21 with a valid concealed carry permit in Alaska. He
asked whether that was correct.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER emphasized that the laws in the
destination state must be followed. He reiterated that an 18-
year-old with a valid concealed carry permit from another state
would not be legally allowed to carry concealed in Alaska.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY concluded that H.R. 38 was more limited than
he had initially understood it to be. He sought to confirm that
the state with the most lenient concealed carry requirements
would not become the standard across all states if H.R. 38 were
to pass.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER confirmed that the congressional bill
would not apply the "lowest denominator" in terms of reciprocity
laws across all states.
CHAIR VANCE likened the reciprocity in H.R. 38 to a nonresident
with a valid drivers license from his/her home state who was
traveling to another state. That person would be allowed to
drive with valid documentation, as long as the speed limit and
safety laws of the destination state were followed. She asked
whether that analogy was accurate.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER deferred the question to Captain Sims.
CHAIR VANCE restated the question, asking whether the principle
of reciprocity in H.R. 38 was similar to the reciprocity of
state driver's licenses across states.
CAPTAIN SIMS confirmed that the analogy was spot on.
1:45:09 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN expounded on the contradictions
referenced by Representative Gray. He considered a scenario in
which a 15-year-old acquired a valid driver's license from
his/her home state and traveled to Alaska with it. He asked
whether that person would be ticketed for driving in Alaska
because his/her age did not qualify under state law.
CHAIR VANCE directed Representative Eastman to keep his
questions specific to the reciprocity of concealed carry laws,
as proposed in H.R. 38.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN contended that an analogy had been drawn
between the reciprocity of concealed carry laws and the
reciprocity of driver's licenses across state lines. He asked
whether driver's licenses were dealt with in the same manner as
firearms or whether the reciprocity was different.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER considered several various hypothetical
scenarios regarding driver's licenses and firearms.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD pointed out that in Alaska, driver's
permits could be obtained at 14 years old. Referencing Alaska's
marijuana laws, she suggested that the state was in favor of
less government. She remarked, "My point is that we are looking
at less government, and we do have a republic that allows our
states to decide what works best for them."
1:52:10 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY reported that some states already practiced
reciprocity in terms of concealed carry permits, while others
did not. He reported that Alaska concealed carry permits were
not recognized in Washington due to a perception of insufficient
mental health background checks. He explained that the
workaround for Alaskans was to obtain a Utah concealed carry
permit via in-person classes offered in state, which was valid
in Washington. He asked whether H.R. 38 would allow Alaskans to
carry concealed in Washington with an Alaska concealed carry
permit.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER did not know the answer.
CAPTAIN SIMS did not know the answer.
MR. MCKEE offered to follow up with the requested information.
1:54:30 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 1 to
HJR 3.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD objected for the purpose of discussion.
1:54:43 PM
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN shared his belief that there were four
sections of the resolution that could be shortened and amended
for accuracy, which Conceptual Amendment 1 aimed to do. He
indicated that he was proposing the conceptual amendment for the
purpose of clarity and legal accuracy.
CHAIR VANCE asked whether the sponsor considered Conceptual
Amendment 1 a friendly amendment.
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER answered yes.
1:56:01 PM
The committee took a brief at-ease.
1:57:32 PM
CHAIR VANCE asked Representative Eastman to explain Conceptual
Amendment 1 in further detail.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN explained that Conceptual Amendment 1
would change the word "documents" on page 2, line 5, to
"records" and replace "recognized" on page 2, line 6, with
"proved, and the effect thereof" to maintain consistency with
the [Constitution of the United States]. Further, the proposed
conceptual amendment would insert "a bill that accomplishes
this, such as" on page 2, line 24, before the direct reference
to "the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act (H.R. 38)" to show
Alaska's support for any legislation by a different title that
accomplished the concealed carry reciprocity proposed in H.R.
38.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD noted, for the public, that the brief at-
ease was requested to allow members time to read Conceptual
Amendment 1 in its entirety.
2:00:24 PM
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY inquired about the addition of the word
"proved" on page 2, line 6.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN indicated that the goal was to remove
discretion from law enforcement and clarify the specific
requirements for validating records from another state.
REPRESENTATIVE GRAY discussed mental health, criminal, and
fingerprint background checks, and opined that a federal
baseline was needed to define a valid concealed carry permit.
He speculated that the concern regarding H.R. 38 stemmed from a
fear that the least restrictive state would determine the
standard for all 50 states.
2:03:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE C. JOHNSON briefly reviewed the intent of
Conceptual Amendment 1 for the purpose of clarification.
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD withdrew her objection. There being no
further objection, Conceptual Amendment 1 to HJR 3 was adopted.
CHAIR VANCE invited additional comments on HJR 3, as amended.
2:05:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE RAUSCHER explained the difference between a bill
and a resolution, noting that the resolution was a formal
message from the Alaska State Legislature to the U.S. Congress
in support of H.R. 38. He emphasized that the legislature would
have no role in crafting the congressional bill.
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN provided final comment on HJR 3, as
amended. He referenced the underlying confusion regarding the
proposed resolution and discussed constitutionality regarding
state reciprocity. He remarked, "the idea of trying to apply a
marriage license or a driver's license or any other type of
license in the way that we're trying to apply concealed carry
licenses in here sounds somewhat incoherent." He opined that
there was room for a more robust application of the constitution
in the proposed resolution.
2:09:45 PM
REPRESENTATIVE ALLARD moved to report HJR 3, as amended, out of
committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying
fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHJR 3(JUD) was
reported out of the House Judiciary Standing Committee.
2:10:08 PM
The committee took an at-ease from 2:10 p.m. to 2:13 p.m.
2:13:54 PM
CHAIR VANCE provided closing remarks on future business.
2:14:14 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:14 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HJR 3 Fiscal Note (02-17-23).pdf |
HJUD 2/17/2023 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 3 |
| Conceptual Amendment to HJR 3 - Rep. Eastman (02-17-23).pdf |
HJUD 2/17/2023 1:30:00 PM |
HJR 3 |