04/14/2015 01:00 PM House JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic | 
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB5 | |
| HB126 | |
| Adjourn | 
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | SB 5 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 126 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | 
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         April 14, 2015                                                                                         
                           1:06 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux, Chair                                                                                          
Representative Wes Keller, Vice Chair                                                                                           
Representative Bob Lynn                                                                                                         
Representative Matt Claman                                                                                                      
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Neal Foster                                                                                                      
Representative Charisse Millett                                                                                                 
Representative Kurt Olson (alternate)                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 5                                                                                                               
"An  Act relating  to loss  of  income and  valuing property  for                                                               
orders of restitution."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED SB 5 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 126                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating to  the  administration  of military  justice;                                                               
relating to  the adoption of  a code  of military justice  by the                                                               
adjutant  general;  relating to  the  authority  of the  adjutant                                                               
general;  relating to  appeals of  convictions  and sentences  of                                                               
courts-martial;  establishing  the Military  Appeals  Commission;                                                               
relating to  the detention  and incarceration  of members  of the                                                               
militia; relating  to the jurisdiction  of the court  of appeals;                                                               
relating to  involuntary commitment  for evaluation  or treatment                                                               
of a  mental disease or defect  before court-martial proceedings;                                                               
and providing for an effective date."                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB 5                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SHORT TITLE: RESTITUTION: PROPERTY AND INCOME LOSS                                                                              
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) MICCICHE                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
01/21/15       (S)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/9/15                                                                                
01/21/15       (S)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/21/15       (S)       L&C, JUD                                                                                               
02/19/15       (S)       L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)                                                                      
02/19/15       (S)       Moved  SB 5 Out of Committee                                                                           
02/19/15       (S)       MINUTE(L&C)                                                                                            
02/20/15       (S)       L&C RPT 5DP                                                                                            
02/20/15       (S)       DP: COSTELLO, STEVENS, GIESSEL, MEYER,                                                                 
                         ELLIS                                                                                                  
02/20/15       (S)       FIN REFERRAL ADDED AFTER JUD                                                                           
03/02/15       (S)       JUD AT 1:00 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/02/15       (S)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/02/15       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/09/15       (S)       JUD AT 1:30 PM BUTROVICH 205                                                                           
03/09/15       (S)       Moved SB 5 Out of Committee                                                                            
03/09/15       (S)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/11/15       (S)       JUD RPT 4DP 1NR                                                                                        
03/11/15       (S)       DP:    MCGUIRE,   COSTELLO,    MICCICHE,                                                               
                         COGHILL                                                                                                
03/11/15       (S)       NR: WIELECHOWSKI                                                                                       
03/17/15       (S)       FIN AT 1:30 PM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                      
03/17/15       (S)       Moved SB 5 Out of Committee                                                                            
03/17/15       (S)       MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                            
03/18/15       (S)       FIN RPT 4DP 2NR                                                                                        
03/18/15       (S)       DP:    MACKINNON,   MICCICHE,    BISHOP,                                                               
                         DUNLEAVY                                                                                               
03/18/15       (S)       NR: HOFFMAN, OLSON                                                                                     
03/25/15       (S)       TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                     
03/25/15       (S)       VERSION: SB   5                                                                                        
03/27/15       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
03/27/15       (H)       JUD                                                                                                    
04/14/15       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 126                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SHORT TITLE: CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE; APPEALS                                                                                  
SPONSOR(s): JUDICIARY                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
02/25/15       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/25/15       (H)       MLV, JUD                                                                                               
03/24/15       (H)       MLV AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/24/15       (H)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
03/26/15       (H)       MLV AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/26/15       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/26/15       (H)       MINUTE(MLV)                                                                                            
03/31/15       (H)       MLV AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/31/15       (H)       Moved CSHB 126(MLV) Out of Committee                                                                   
03/31/15       (H)       MINUTE(MLV)                                                                                            
04/01/15       (H)       MLV RPT CS(MLV) NT 3DP 4AM                                                                             
04/01/15       (H)       DP: LYNN, LEDOUX, HERRON                                                                               
04/01/15       (H)       AM: TUCK, GRUENBERG, COLVER, HUGHES                                                                    
04/14/15       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETER MICCICHE                                                                                                          
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented SB 5 as prime sponsor, and                                                                     
answered questions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHUCK KOPP, Staff                                                                                                               
Senator Peter Micciche                                                                                                          
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the hearing on SB 5, offered a                                                                    
sectional analysis and answered questions.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS NETTLES, President                                                                                                        
GeoTek Alaska, Inc.                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the hearing on SB 5, offered the                                                                  
support of the National Federation of Independent Business and                                                                  
GeoTek Alaska in strengthening restitution laws.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
NANCY MEADE, General Counsel                                                                                                    
Administrative Staff                                                                                                            
Alaska Court System                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the hearing on SB 5, answered                                                                     
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
STACI SHROEDER                                                                                                                  
Assistant Attorney General                                                                                                      
Criminal Section                                                                                                                
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the hearing on SB 5, answered                                                                     
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS BROWN, Staff                                                                                                             
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Presented and  answered questions during the                                                             
hearing  on HB  126, on  behalf of  the House  Judiciary Standing                                                               
Committee, prime sponsor.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT FOREST DUNBAR, First Lieutenant                                                                                      
Judge Advocate Officer                                                                                                          
Alaska Army National Guard                                                                                                      
Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska                                                                                         
POSITION  STATEMENT:   During  the  hearing  on HB  126,  offered                                                             
testimony and answered questions.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
BOB DOEHL, Deputy Commissioner                                                                                                  
Commissioner's Office                                                                                                           
Department of Military and Veterans Affairs (DMVA)                                                                              
Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  During the hearing on HB 126, answered                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:06:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GABRIELLE  LEDOUX  called  the  House  Judiciary  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order  at 1:06  p.m.      Representatives                                                               
Keller, Lynn, Claman,  Gruenberg, and LeDoux were  present at the                                                               
call to order.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          SB   5-RESTITUTION: PROPERTY AND INCOME LOSS                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:07:07 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  PETER  MICCICHE, Alaska  State  Legislature,  said SB  5                                                               
strengthens Alaska  restitution laws, assists in  restoring crime                                                               
victims  to a  pre-offense condition,  and protects  the property                                                               
interests of all  Alaskans.  According to the  2013 Department of                                                               
Public Safety  Annual Report, Alaskans suffered  over $23 million                                                               
in loss due to property crimes,  which is up more than 12 percent                                                               
since  2011.   A fundamental  component of  Alaska court  ordered                                                               
restorative justice is making crime  victims whole.  He explained                                                               
that  SB  5  addresses  a   language  inconsistency  in  statutes                                                               
speaking to  restitution as  a provision  of sentencing,  and the                                                               
statutes have a  provision of probation resulting  in persons and                                                               
businesses affected  by crime  receiving compensation  [only] for                                                               
loss  and  victim  restitution  orders.    He  noted  that  SB  5                                                               
reconciles  this inconsistency  under a  provision of  sentencing                                                               
adding  a public  policy consideration  calling for  offenders to                                                               
compensate  victims for  damages  and injury,  including loss  of                                                               
income.   The  bill defines  loss of  income as  a total  loss of                                                               
income a  business or person  may lose  due to not  having stolen                                                               
property available  for the  period of time  it takes  to replace                                                               
that  property, he  stated.   The  new  language directs  courts,                                                               
while  making determinations  of loss  for restitution,  to value                                                               
property as  the market  value of  the property  at the  time and                                                               
place of  the crime, or a  reasonable time after the  crime.  The                                                               
bill amends, as  a condition of probation,  establishing the same                                                               
standard as  in AS 12.55.045,  and restitution as a  condition of                                                               
sentencing.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:09:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE  pointed  out  that  current  inconsistency  in                                                               
Alaska's  restitution   laws  contributed  to  a   recent  Alaska                                                               
Appellate  Court  decision that  is  problematic  to Alaskan  and                                                               
their  property interests.    The 9th  Circuit  Court of  Appeals                                                               
found in  Lori S. Welsh v.  State of Alaska, No.  A-11197 (2013),                                                             
that  restitution  orders,  as   a  condition  of  sentencing  or                                                               
probation,  would  be  restricted   to  actual  damages  or  loss                                                               
suffered  by   the  victim.     In  that  regard,  there   is  no                                                               
consideration  of the  market value  of the  property or  loss of                                                               
income to the crime victim.   He offered that within his district                                                               
there have  been a rash  of drug  related crimes where  folks are                                                               
looking for money for additional  drugs.  Within his district, he                                                               
described, there is a small  water well drilling company and some                                                               
folks broke in  one night and literally trashed  that vehicle for                                                               
all  of the  copper  on board,  the welding  leads,  and all  the                                                               
wiring  harnesses.   He commented  that  the company  was out  of                                                               
business for  weeks and it was  within the portion of  the season                                                               
with the highest amount of activity.   The way the law stands, he                                                               
explained,  the court  is [not]  instructed to  consider loss  of                                                               
income in  restitution.  The  bill reconciles  that inconsistency                                                               
in the restitution orders so  that the law clearly considers loss                                                               
of  income as  a real  loss to  persons and  businesses, and  the                                                               
court   should   make   that   consideration   when   determining                                                               
restitution orders.  He observes  the rights of perpetrators but,                                                               
he expressed,  prefers to  protect the  rights of  victims higher                                                               
with  just and  fair  restitution  orders from  the  courts.   He                                                               
described SB 5 as a substantial step in that direction.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:11:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHUCK  KOPP,   Staff,  Senator   Peter  Micciche,   Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, advised  that Section 1  of the bill  clearly states                                                               
public policy preference  that the court consider  loss of income                                                               
in issuing  restitution orders.   He reiterated  Senator Micciche                                                               
in  that  Sec.  2  adds  a new  definition  for  loss  of  income                                                               
specifying  the inclusion  of the  total  loss of  income that  a                                                               
business  or  person suffers  as  a  result  of not  having  this                                                               
property available  for the  period of time  it takes  to replace                                                               
the property.  He pointed to  Sec. 3 and remarked that it directs                                                               
the court when  making determinations of loss  for restitution to                                                               
[include the] value  of property as the market value  at the time                                                               
and place of  the crime, or if that cannot  be easily ascertained                                                               
the cost of replacement.  He  extends this is taken directly from                                                               
AS 11, criminal  statutes where the courts  determine value under                                                               
the  criminal  law  for  property  so it  is  the  same  language                                                               
commonality in  statute there.   He explained that Sec.  4 speaks                                                               
to conditions of  restitution as a provision of  probation and it                                                               
makes amended language  so that it is  consistent with conditions                                                               
of restitution for sentencing stating,  "the court will determine                                                               
the  amount of  actual damages  or  loss under  the paragraph  by                                                               
valuing property as the market value  of the property at the time                                                               
and  place  of   the  crime,  or  if  it   cannot  reasonably  be                                                               
ascertained  the cost  of replacement  of the  property within  a                                                               
reasonable time  after the crime."   The language brings  in line                                                               
the   provisions  of   restitution  under   sentencing  and   the                                                               
provisions of  restitution under  probation so that  the standard                                                               
is the same  and the court, in both  circumstances, he explained,                                                               
can  consider the  loss of  income to  businesses and  persons in                                                               
determining  restitution  orders.   He  related  that it  is  not                                                               
mandatory as the law declares  that the court will consider this.                                                               
He  reiterated Senator  Micciche's  comments in  that the  retail                                                               
value in  many cases  is properly  recognized as  the replacement                                                               
cost, and additionally,  it is not just the items  stolen but the                                                               
cost of project delays and  project cancelation.  Off road system                                                               
[theft  or damage]  can cost  the season  and liquidated  damages                                                               
begin depending upon what is stolen  or damaged from the job site                                                               
and,  he related,  how long  it takes  to replace  that property.                                                               
There  is  broad based  support  for  SB  5 from  businesses  and                                                               
persons across Alaska, he opined.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:14:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked whether the bill  deals with loss                                                               
of income and valuation of property.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. KOPP answered in the affirmative.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG offered  his concern regarding valuation                                                               
of property  in that  the bill  requires the  court to  value the                                                               
property  "at  that  amount,  using   that  standard,"  which  is                                                               
different from just requiring the  court to take into account the                                                               
loss of income.   He questioned whether the intent  is to require                                                               
the court  to use that  measure of  value, and pointed  out there                                                               
different  methods of  valuing  property, such  as,  the cost  of                                                               
replacement  or, in  the  area of  income  producing property  to                                                               
value it  as stolen  income producing  property that  was stolen,                                                               
which would be  similar to dealing with loss of  income.  Another                                                               
method  in reviewing  the value  of similar  properties could  be                                                               
that someone shoots an unreplaceable  prized animal, but would be                                                               
[evaluated] as  similar animals.   He suggested that  the sponsor                                                               
may   consider   giving   the    court   discretion   in   making                                                               
determinations.   Representative Gruenberg referred to  [page 2],                                                               
lines  16, 28-19,  and suggested  the following  language: "value                                                               
property  at the  market value,"  thereby  substituting "as"  for                                                               
"at."  Connected with that, the  term normally used at the law is                                                               
the "fair market  value" and he recommended using the  term as it                                                               
is in the  law.  One of  the really harsh rules is  when a person                                                               
is insured  and their  car is  totaled, it is  valued on  a basis                                                               
that is not the replacement cost but much less, he remarked.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX  asked  that  Representative  Gruenberg  stay  with                                                               
issues related to SB 5.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:18:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE responded that  this bill language is permissive                                                               
and does  not dictate the method  of valuation as each  case will                                                               
differ depending  upon the  circumstances.   He advised  that the                                                               
intent of  the bill is  that not every  Alaskan can go  to Costco                                                               
and purchase  a new  generator [that  day] as it  may have  to be                                                               
shipped  on a  $2,000  flight across  the Inlet.    He offered  a                                                               
scenario  of someone  in a  boat, stealing  a generator,  is then                                                               
caught,  and the  thief  does not  owe the  victim  for a  $1,000                                                               
generator -  they owe  the victim  for a  $3,000 generator.   The                                                               
intent of the bill is that  the court consider the actual cost of                                                               
that object at  the site at the time [of  theft] and, pointed out                                                               
that the bill is permissive enough  to not steer the court on how                                                               
it will  value each  item, rather  that the  actual value  of the                                                               
item is considered.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG suggested  that  rather than  requiring                                                               
[the  court]  to  value  it,  add the  language  crafted  at  the                                                               
beginning of the bill.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:19:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KOPP  replied that this issue  came up in the  other body and                                                               
the language on page 1, lines  14-15, is clearly permissive as it                                                               
reads,  "In  determining the  amount  and  method of  payment  of                                                               
restitution or  compensation, the  court shall take  into account                                                               
..."  He offered the language does not tell the court ...                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  argued  that  it deals  with  loss  of                                                               
income, the  suggestion he previously  made deals with  damage or                                                               
loss of restitution.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.   KOPP  explained   that  the   entire  section   deals  with                                                               
restitution  orders  and sentencing,  a  predecessor  to Sec.  2,                                                               
which  is permissive.    It  reads that  a  public policy  favors                                                               
requiring  criminals  to  compensate   for  damages  and  injury,                                                               
including loss  of income.   He  offered that  loss of  income is                                                               
internally consistent  in that section  as it is stated  later in                                                               
the  same  section  with  respect  to  someone  who  might  steal                                                               
commercial fishing  gear, set net  gear, drift gill net  gear, or                                                               
trolling  gear that  the court  will consider  loss of  income in                                                               
that  consideration,  "again,  consider  loss  of  income."    He                                                               
pointed  out that  the reference  to "considering"  is consistent                                                               
"taking into  account" is consistent  throughout the  statute and                                                               
is something that  is not a new concept, and  highlighted it as a                                                               
public policy priority.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:21:49 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX related that the  time for amendments has passed and                                                               
she will not slow down the bill  at the end of the session for an                                                               
amendment which could  have been made and been  introduced to the                                                               
House  Judiciary Standing  Committee in  compliance with  the 24-                                                               
hour rule.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG pointed  out that  he does  not believe                                                               
that subsection (o) is limited to loss of income.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. KOPP  submitted that market  value is a well-defined  term in                                                               
criminal law under AS 11.46.980,  which is the same standard used                                                               
by the  courts to  determine property  valuation with  respect to                                                               
thefts and burglary in property crimes.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:23:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN opined  that as  a statistical  matter the                                                               
public  defender  would  say  that   80-85  percent  of  criminal                                                               
defendants are public  defender eligible and usually  do not have                                                               
a lot of  money.  He questioned whether this  changes the court's                                                               
fundamental obligation to make a  determination about the ability                                                               
to  pay or  set restitution  schedules consistent  with how  much                                                               
money the  defendant can actually  earn.  He advised  he supports                                                               
restitution and also does not  like the idea of creating debtor's                                                               
prisons or sending people back  to prison because they can't pay.                                                               
He asked  how the bill impacts  the obligation of the  ability to                                                               
pay.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE  explained that  current  Alaska  law does  not                                                               
allow  a person  in prison  solely due  to the  inability to  pay                                                               
under AS 12.55.051(a)  and (c).  He offered  that perpetrators of                                                               
a crime usually have no idea  of the ultimate value of the damage                                                               
and his goal  is to get the perpetrator out  of prison as quickly                                                               
as possible, turn their lives around,  and be put on a reasonable                                                               
restitution   payment  plan.     He   further  offered   that  AS                                                               
12.55.051[(c)] reads:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     ...  If,  at  a  hearing  under  this  subsection,  the                                                                    
     defendant  proves by  a preponderance  of the  evidence                                                                    
     that the  defendant will be  unable through  good faith                                                                    
     efforts to  satisfy the order requiring  payment of the                                                                    
     fine or  restitution, the court shall  modify the order                                                                    
     so that the  defendant can pay the  fine or restitution                                                                    
     through good faith efforts ...                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE  pointed  out  there  is  no  potential  for  a                                                               
debtor's prison  in Alaska law, and  no value to the  victim even                                                               
when retrieving cents  on the dollar.  He opined  that it largely                                                               
represents the  expectation of the  perpetrator to do  their best                                                               
to provide restitution to the victim.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:26:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  submitted  that   a  generator  could  be                                                               
running for  10-years before being  stolen and the  old generator                                                               
is worth less than $500, but  the practical reality of locating a                                                               
10-year old  replacement is  hard to imagine.   He  surmised this                                                               
bill  allows the  court make  the determination  of [replacement]                                                               
value.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MICCICHE  responded he has  faith that common  sense will                                                               
prevail.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX opened public testimony.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:28:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS  NETTLES,  President,  GeoTek  Alaska,  Inc.,  said  he  is                                                               
testifying on  behalf of the  National Federation  of Independent                                                               
Business, and as primary owner of  GeoTek Alaska.  He pointed out                                                               
how  important it  is  to a  business  to strengthen  restitution                                                               
laws, and  offered that  within his business  a snow  machine was                                                               
stolen  from an  off-road  site, and  fortunately  it was  stolen                                                               
after the project had been completed.   However, he said, had the                                                               
machine been  stolen before the  project, his business  would not                                                               
only have undergone  the cost of replacing the  snow machine, but                                                               
the cost  of getting  another one to  the site.   On top  of that                                                               
issue, a  company may be  under contracts and standby  costs, and                                                               
suffer liability  or loss due  to not meeting the  contract time.                                                               
When  reviewing the  cost of  an item  or damage  performed by  a                                                               
perpetrator, it is  not just the cost for that  item as there are                                                               
many  other  costs  possibly  included   for  one  item  that  is                                                               
essential to  a project.   It is  important that  victims receive                                                               
restitution from perpetrators, if possible, he expressed.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  closed public testimony  after ascertaining  no one                                                               
further wished to testify.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:31:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
NANCY MEADE, General Counsel,  Administrative Staff, Alaska Court                                                               
System, [Advised she is available to answer questions.]                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  offered his concern regarding  Sec. 3-4                                                               
of the  bill and opined that  subsection (o) which will  be added                                                               
in Sec.  3, would not  be limited to  a determination of  loss of                                                               
income  language at  page 1,  "requiring the  court to  take that                                                               
into account."   He further  opined the new subsection  (o) would                                                               
not  be permissive  but  would  require the  court  to value  the                                                               
property at the fair market value.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. MEADE responded that the  legal interpretation of the bill is                                                               
something the court system does  not normally provide as it would                                                               
be  a   better  question  for  Legislative   Legal  and  Research                                                               
Services.   She  offered that  from the  court system's  point of                                                               
view, this does clarify how  to apply some currently inconsistent                                                               
statutes,  which the  court  can easily  apply.   At  restitution                                                               
hearings  there are  currently arguments  and discussion  brought                                                               
forth regarding valuation of property,  she explained.  This bill                                                               
offers  more  guidance  for  the   court  which,  she  noted,  is                                                               
something the judges appreciate  and reiterated it clarifies some                                                               
inconsistencies.  She did not  see a problem with courts applying                                                               
it as written, she remarked.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:34:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
STACI  SHROEDER,  Assistant   Attorney  General,  Legal  Services                                                               
Section,  Department of  Law, asked  Representative Gruenberg  to                                                               
briefly restate the question.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG turned  to  Sec. 3,  and asked  whether                                                               
that subsection would only apply  to property involved in loss of                                                               
income.  He  opined it is a standalone  section under restitution                                                               
and compensation, AS 12.55.045, not  all of which involves income                                                               
producing property  or property involved  in the loss  of income.                                                               
He  surmised  that subsection  (o)  applies  to income  producing                                                               
situations and non-income producing situations.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:35:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCHRODER answered  that she reads subsection  (o) as applying                                                               
to the  entire statute  and not being  limited in  clarifying how                                                               
the court should value property.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG agreed  that it is just not  a factor to                                                               
be taken into  consideration, but "in a  non-income situation the                                                               
court would have  to value it at  that method."  He  opined it is                                                               
not all bad, but there may be  other ways the court would want to                                                               
have some leeway.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER pointed out that  is not necessarily bad as                                                               
it applies to all restitution compensation.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:36:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:36 to 1:38 p.m.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:38:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX referred  to the discussion of whether  or not there                                                               
is a grammatical error on [page 2], lines 16, 28-29, which read:                                                                
                                                                                                                                
        ... shall value property as the market value of                                                                         
     the property ...                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX submitted that the sponsor  does not believe it is a                                                               
grammatical error.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  MICCICHE  pointed  out   that  when  reading  the  whole                                                               
sentence "the  court shall  value property  ..." which  is taking                                                               
the value and  valuing it "as" the market value  of the property.                                                               
He  said that  "at" the  market value  of the  property would  be                                                               
looking at  one singular item.   The bill says, "it  is valued as                                                               
the market value  of the property," and  he does not see  it as a                                                               
grammatical error as  it fits, it went through  the Department of                                                               
Law, and Legislative Legal and  Research Services, who all agreed                                                               
that is  the correct language,  and for all intents  and purposes                                                               
it is fully functioning as written.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:40:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER moved to report  SB 5, labeled 29-LS0109\H,                                                               
out  of   committee  with  individual  recommendations   and  the                                                               
accompanying fiscal notes.  There  being no objection, SB 5 moved                                                               
from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:40:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:40 to 1:44 p.m.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
            HB 126-CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE; APPEALS                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:44:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 126,  "An Act relating  to the  administration of                                                               
military justice; relating to the  adoption of a code of military                                                               
justice by  the adjutant  general; relating  to the  authority of                                                               
the  adjutant general;  relating  to appeals  of convictions  and                                                               
sentences  of courts-martial;  establishing the  Military Appeals                                                               
Commission;  relating  to  the  detention  and  incarceration  of                                                               
members  of the  militia;  relating to  the  jurisdiction of  the                                                               
court  of   appeals;  relating  to  involuntary   commitment  for                                                               
evaluation  or treatment  of a  mental disease  or defect  before                                                               
court-martial proceedings; and providing  for an effective date."                                                               
[Before the committee was CSHB 126, labeled 29-LS0473\E.]                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:45:00 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
THOMAS  BROWN,  Staff,  Representative Gabrielle  LeDoux,  Alaska                                                               
State Legislature, said he will give  a brief overview of HB 126,                                                               
offer a  sectional analysis, and  Lieutenant Forrest  Dunbar will                                                               
then provide  an overview.   Mr. Brown  explained that HB  126 is                                                               
legislation crafted  at the request of  Alaska's military command                                                               
requesting  greater  authority  and   latitude  in  pursuing  and                                                               
prosecuting  service  members  who violated  military  rules  and                                                               
protocols.    This version  of  the  bill  is  a synthesis  of  a                                                               
separate  bill presented  by Representative  Chris Tuck,  HB 121,                                                               
which sought  the same  ends as  HB 126, but  came at  the result                                                               
from a  different means.  This  bill seeks to grant  authority to                                                               
the Department of Military and  Veterans Affairs (DMVA) and allow                                                               
the    creation   of    regulations    to   govern    themselves.                                                               
Representative Tuck's  bill, HB  121, sought  the same  but chose                                                               
statute as opposed to regulation.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROWN advised  the sectional analysis lays out  the result of                                                               
that synthesis.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:47:23 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG advised  he  received  pages 44-54,  HB
121,  Representative Tuck's  bill, and  asked where  the language                                                               
originated.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:47:51 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  FOREST  DUNBAR,   First  Lieutenant,  Judge  Advocate                                                               
Officer,  Alaska  Army  National  Guard,  advised  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg that  he sent pages  44-45 to him after  their meeting,                                                               
and  that  the  language  came  from the  Model  State  Code  [of                                                               
Military Justice] created by the National Guard Bureau.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked Lieutenant  Dunbar whether he will                                                               
identify what  portion of the bill  is from the Model  State Code                                                               
of Military Justice, and what is not.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX interjected  that the  bill  is not  moving out  of                                                               
committee today, therefore, the committee  can meet and craft the                                                               
perfect  bill   before  attending  the  second   session  of  the                                                               
legislature in January.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:48:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR advised that the  vast majority of the language                                                               
in HB  126, whether originally HB  126 or brought across  from HB
121,  is taken  from the  Model  State Code  of Military  Justice                                                               
created by the National Guard Bureau.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:49:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  BROWN offered  the following  sectional analysis  which read                                                               
[original punctuation provided]:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
               CODE OF MILITARY JUSTICE; APPEALS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section 1,  page 1 -  amends 22.07.020.  Designates the                                                                    
     jurisdiction of  the court of appeals  over actions and                                                                    
     proceedings in a military court;                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section  2, page  2 -  amends 26.05.140(a).  Eliminates                                                                    
     protection  from criminal  liability for  Guard members                                                                    
     charged  with crimes  resultant from  their duties  and                                                                    
     clarifies that  any exemption  from liability  will not                                                                    
     apply  to offenses  under the  Alaska Code  of Military                                                                    
     Justice.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Section  3, page  2 -  amends 26.05.228(b).  Conforming                                                                    
     amendment;                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Section 4,  pages 2-36  - amends  26.05. Creates  a new                                                                    
     Article,  the  Code of  Military  Justice.  Of the  new                                                                    
     sections  in this  Article, it  instructs the  adjutant                                                                    
     general  to adopt  regulations for  a code  of military                                                                    
     justice  under the  terms of  the  chapter to  include,                                                                    
     p.3:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          - Organization and conduct of courts-martial;                                                                         
     Provide for non-judicial punishment (NJP);                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          - Identify which offenses are subject to court-                                                                       
     martial or NJP;                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
          - Identify allowable punishments for such                                                                             
     offenses;                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          - Identify rules of trial, pretrial, post-trial                                                                       
     and related procedures;                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
          - Organize courts of inquiry;                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          - Provide adequate protection of classified                                                                           
     information;                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Other  sections in  the new  Code  of Military  Justice                                                                    
     include:                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          - A statement that all non-military offenses                                                                          
     shall be tried in a civilian court, p.4;                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          - Designation the exclusive jurisdiction of                                                                           
     courts-martial over  the code  of military  justice and                                                                    
     that the code applies to all military offenses, p. 4;                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          - Sets jurisdiction of the military code over                                                                         
     deserters  and  fraudulently discharged  personnel  and                                                                    
     those members  who commit their offense  outside of the                                                                    
     state or  live outside of  the state when  charged with                                                                    
     the offense, p.4;                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          - Details the duties and qualifications of those                                                                      
     who serve as judge advocates, p.5;                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          - Defines who may apprehend members accused of a                                                                      
     military offense  and how that apprehension  is to take                                                                    
     place, p. 5-6;                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          - Defines how a member may be arrested, under                                                                         
     what conditions  they may be  arrested, who may  do so,                                                                    
     and how they may be confined, p. 6-7;                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          - Defines how a member accused of a military                                                                          
     offense may be delivered to a civilian authority, p.7;                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          - Describes the composition, duties, terms of                                                                         
     service,  jurisdictions, and  convening authorities  of                                                                    
     courts-martial, p.8-11;                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
          - Lays out requirements for who may serve on                                                                          
     courts-martial, and  specifies that a  Guardsman cannot                                                                    
     be  tried  by  a  service  member  lower  ranking  than                                                                    
     themselves, p. 11.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          - Provides the requirements for military judges,                                                                      
     p. 12                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          - Describes the duties and qualifications of                                                                          
     trial  counsel,  defense  counsel,  assistant  counsel,                                                                    
     court  reporters, and  interpreters of  courts-martial,                                                                    
     p. 11-12;                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          - Specifies the procedures for bringing charges                                                                       
     against a member. p.13;                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
          - Prevents the self-incrimination of the accused,                                                                     
     p.13;                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          - Defines the investigatory process,p.14;                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
          - Lays out how charges may be processed and the                                                                       
     procedures for continuances, oaths  of office for court                                                                    
     officers,p.15-17;                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
          - Defines the statutes of limitations for                                                                             
     military offenses,p.19;                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
          - Prohibits double jeopardy charges and describes                                                                     
     how pleas of the accused are to be processed,p.19;                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          - Defines how subpoenas and contempt of court                                                                         
     charges are to be processed,p.19-20;                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          - Provides for an insanity defense for the                                                                            
     accused and the determination  for mental competency of                                                                    
     the accused, p. 20-23;                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          - Describes the procedures for voting and ruling                                                                      
     in courts-martial,p.23-24;                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          - Requires the recording of courts-martial,p.24-                                                                      
     25;                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          - Describes the allowable punishments and                                                                             
     sentences    and    prohibits   cruel    and    unusual                                                                    
     punishments,p. 25-27;                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          - Describes the appeals process in the military                                                                       
     code, including appeals by the state,p.27-28;                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          - Allows for a vacation of suspension under                                                                           
     certain circumstances,p.28;                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          - Allows for the accused to petition for a new                                                                        
     trial and the restoration of privileges,p.28-29;                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          - Describes the composition and duties of the                                                                         
     Military Appeals Commission,p.29-32;                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          - Defines who may administer oaths for the                                                                            
     purposes of military administration proceedings,p.32;                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          - Allows for the governor to delegate authority                                                                       
     for the code of military justice,p.32;                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          - Creates a military justice account in the                                                                           
     general fund,p.33;                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          - Describes the system of paying and collection                                                                       
     of fines associated with the military code,p.33;                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          - Describes the pay scale of officers and                                                                             
     witnesses of the courts-martial,p.33-34;                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          - Provides immunity for persons who acted                                                                             
     pursuant to their duties under the military code,p.34;                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          - Defines terms associated with the new                                                                               
     Article,p.34-36;                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Section 5, page 36  - amends 33.30.011. Further defines                                                                    
     'held under authority of state  law' to include persons                                                                    
     held under the military code;                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Section 6,  page 36 -  amends 33.30.051.  Describes how                                                                    
     persons  convicted under  the military  code are  to be                                                                    
     restrained or confined;                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Section  7, page  36 -  amends 44.23.020.  requires the                                                                    
     Attorney General  to assist courts-martial in  cases of                                                                    
     mental incompetency;                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section   8,   page   36-37  -   amends   44.35.020(a).                                                                    
     Conforming  amendment dealing  with the  duties of  the                                                                    
     Dept. of Military and Veterans' Affairs;                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Section 9, page 37 - Repeal section;                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Section 10, page 37 - Applicability clause;                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Section  11, page  37 -  Establishes and  describes the                                                                    
     terms of office of the Military Appeals Commission;                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Section  12,  page  37-38  -  Authorizes  the  adjutant                                                                    
     general to enact and enforce  the regulations under the                                                                    
     Code  of   Military  Justice,  upon  approval   of  the                                                                    
     governor;                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Section 13, page 38 - Effective date for section 12                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Section 14,  page 38 -  Effective date for the  rest of                                                                    
     the bill.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:50:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROWN referred  to Sec. 4, pages 2-36, and  advised it is the                                                               
meat  of   the  bill  of   which  a  large  portion   comes  from                                                               
Representative  Tuck's HB  121,  and explained  it instructs  the                                                               
adjutant  general to  adopt regulations  for a  Code of  Military                                                               
Justice.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:56:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DUNBAR  offered a  slide  show  depicting efforts  to                                                               
create a  system whereby soldiers  and airmen can  effectively be                                                               
disciplined using the Alaska Code  of Military Justice.  The vast                                                               
majority of funding for the  Alaska National Guard comes from the                                                               
federal government  and, he expressed,  "in a sense, we  get very                                                               
good bang for our buck as a state."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He explained that he is  currently paid by the federal government                                                               
because it wants the state to  have a common effective force, and                                                               
this  process of  creating a  new Code  of Military  Justice will                                                               
assist in that endeavor.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He referred  to slide  3, and  stated that  the Code  of Military                                                               
Justice  will  allow  the Alaska  National  Guard  Commanders  to                                                               
administer  courts-martial and  potentially convict  guardsmen of                                                               
offenses.  He  pointed out it also offers tools  to perform "Non-                                                               
Judicial Punishment,"  which is usually offenses  more minor than                                                               
those warranting court martial,  and allows commanders to quickly                                                               
discipline guardsmen  using suspensions,  fines, and  sometimes a                                                               
bust in rank.   He remarked this  is an important part  of HB 126                                                               
in that Alaska is one of few  states that does not have this type                                                               
of Code,  as most states have  these regulations and use  them to                                                               
good effect.   The bill is  not attempting to replace  a judicial                                                               
system,  he emphasized,  in attempting  to convict  every offense                                                               
that  guardsmen potentially  commit.   The  policy  of the  prior                                                               
Territorial National  Guard, carried forward  in HB 126,  is that                                                               
if an offense is cognizable under  civilian law such as, a theft,                                                               
homicide,  sexual  assault,  the  default is  that  it  would  be                                                               
prosecuted by  civilian authorities.   He related that  manner is                                                               
the strong preference  of the National Guard as it  does not have                                                               
its own  police force, jail,  or specialized prosecutors  to deal                                                               
with issues like sexual assault.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:59:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DUNBAR  said  there   may  be  cases  where  civilian                                                               
authorities  decline  to  prosecute something  that  the  general                                                               
public  believes is  an offense.   For  example, he  offered, the                                                               
most recent scandal involving the  National Guard was behavior by                                                               
guardsmen  involving   sexual  relations  with  recruits.     The                                                               
civilian authorities,  for a variety  of reasons, decided  not to                                                               
prosecute as perhaps  there was not enough evidence  or it didn't                                                               
tightly fit  the definition  of sexual  assault but,  he related,                                                               
there are  military offenses broad  enough wherein  the offenders                                                               
could  potentially  be pursued  for  things  like dereliction  of                                                               
duty,  conduct  unbecoming an  officer,  drunk  on duty.    Those                                                               
offenses  will  be  put  into  regulation  should  HB  126  pass,                                                               
although  it is  anticipated  there will  be  a relatively  small                                                               
number  of courts-martials  due to  settlement.   He referred  to                                                               
slide  4, and  advised there  are three  legs to  Good Order  and                                                               
Discipline,  being: Administrative  actions  such as  separation,                                                               
letters  of  reprimand;  Alaska Criminal  Law  which  applies  to                                                               
soldiers  and airmen  living in  the state;  and, Alaska  Code of                                                               
Military Justice  allowing the power  of courts-martial  and non-                                                               
judicial punishment.   Had this leg to Good  Order and Discipline                                                               
been present prior  to the activities leading to  the scandal, he                                                               
said there  is no way  to know, but  it would have  increased the                                                               
likelihood of bringing  Good Order and Discipline  to those units                                                               
more quickly.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:02:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  offered that in order  to determine how                                                               
well  the current  system  works,  or how  well  this could  have                                                               
worked, this committee may consider  going into executive session                                                               
as  to what  actually occurred  in the  investigation previously.                                                               
He  advised he  is raising  that issue  now in  light of  certain                                                               
procedures to  undertake should the committee  decide to subpoena                                                               
people.   He remarked he  does not know whether  those procedures                                                               
must be performed before the legislature adjourns.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX asked if he had a question for Lieutenant Dunbar.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked whether  the attorneys involved in                                                               
this process are member of  the Alaska Bar Association because if                                                               
they are  Alaskan attorneys  they would  be familiar  with Alaska                                                               
Statutes and Alaska  procedures which will have  relevance in his                                                               
following questions.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR  responded that the National  Guard has members                                                               
of the  Alaska Bar Association  and those that are  not, although                                                               
the majority are members of the Alaska Bar Association.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:05:14 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG submitted  that in  going through  [the                                                               
bill] will  determine which proposed statutes  are actually taken                                                               
from "Model Code," and questioned whether  there is a body of law                                                               
for  reference,  for example,  fraudulent  enlistment.   In  that                                                               
regard, is  there an  annotated code  somewhere so  the committee                                                               
can  determine   how  courts  have  previously   interpreted  the                                                               
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR advised  he is holding a  document published by                                                               
the National Guard Bureau, but it  does not have quite the detail                                                               
he believes  Representative Gruenberg  was referring.   It mostly                                                               
refers  to  the attendant  regulations  in  the Uniform  Code  of                                                               
Military Justice (UCMJ), which contains  vast case law associated                                                               
with it.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:06:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG surmised that if  this is taken from the                                                               
regulations under the Code, the  lawyers involved will be able to                                                               
see how this language has been interpreted by other courts.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR answered in the affirmative.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:06:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG asked  whether  the  committee will  be                                                               
informed in individual cases whether  the language selected under                                                               
the crimes are different than the "Model Code."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DUNBAR  replied  that  this issue  is  later  in  his                                                               
presentation wherein he describes the  process by which they hope                                                               
to determine the  actual "Code" itself.  He opined  he will start                                                               
with a  base line  of the  "Model Code,"  and through  input with                                                               
this  committee,  through the  chain  of  command, soldiers,  and                                                               
people he is  in contact with at the Judge  Advocate Legal Center                                                               
and  School, and  there  may  be offenses  taken  out, added,  or                                                               
changed.   He  pointed out  that "absolutely"  they will  provide                                                               
guidance in a  document to show where it differs  from the strict                                                               
"Model Code."                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:07:46 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG remarked that  Lieutenant Dunbar chose a                                                               
military model with the "Model Code,"  yet on the other hand some                                                               
of these  in the offense area  deal with issues that  are defined                                                               
in  the  Alaska  Criminal  Code, Title  11,  such  as,  attempts,                                                               
solicitation,  and  conspiracy.   In  the  interim, he  surmised,                                                               
Lieutenant Dunbar  will be  prepared not just  to talk  about the                                                               
geneses  coming  from  the  "Model  Code,"  but  the  alternative                                                               
whether there  is any difference between  that and Title 11.   He                                                               
advised his  last statement refers  to members of the  Alaska Bar                                                               
Association because they will likely  be more familiar with Title                                                               
11 than the "Model Code."                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR  answered that the guard  members most involved                                                               
in this  process over the interim  are members of the  Alaska Bar                                                               
Association, primarily  based at Joint  Base Elmendorf-Richardson                                                               
(JBER) and hope to work closely  with his office on exactly those                                                               
types of questions.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:09:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT  DUNBAR  noted that  slide  5  goes to  Representative                                                               
Gruenberg's  point in  that there  is  already existing  relevant                                                               
law:  the  Territorial Era  Military  Code,  Title 26  of  Alaska                                                               
Statutes, but it  does not establish a Code  of Military Justice;                                                               
the Alaska  Criminal Code  which in most  cases will  provide for                                                               
prosecutions and  punishments for the most  serious offenses; and                                                               
the Federal  Uniform Code of  Military Justice (UCMJ) which  is a                                                               
fairly comprehensive criminal code  with offense such as homicide                                                               
and theft  and the  like.   He noted that  the Federal  Code only                                                               
applies to guard  members when in a Fully Federalize  status.  He                                                               
referred to  slide 6, and  indicated that status is  an important                                                               
part  of the  puzzle  of  which there  are  three main  statuses:                                                               
Titles 32,  10, and state active  duty.  He explained  that Fully                                                               
Federalized is under  Title 10, when guardsmen are  sent to Iraq,                                                               
Afghanistan,  or other  missions under  the full  command of  the                                                               
federal forces, they  are subject to the Federal  UCMJ.  However,                                                               
he explained,  when they are  in Title  32 status, which  is what                                                               
most guards  people are on most  of the time when  on their drill                                                               
weekends, for example.   He offered that they are  not subject to                                                               
the Federal  UCMJ despite the fact  they are usually paid  by the                                                               
federal government.   These individuals  are paid by  the federal                                                               
government yet  commanded by the  governor, State of  Alaska, and                                                               
Adjutant  General,  and are  not  subject  to the  Federal  UCMJ.                                                               
State active  duty would typically  be for disaster  response and                                                               
commanded by the state and paid by the state, he explained.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:11:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR  referred to  slide 7, and  offered there  is a                                                               
gap in the law at the  moment in that military offenses cannot be                                                               
prosecuted at the moment as  the appropriate law to prosecute are                                                               
not  on the  books for  military offenses  when on  Title 32,  or                                                               
state active duty.   Which, he related, means  certain things are                                                               
not  available  such as,  dishonorable  discharge  as the  Alaska                                                               
National Guard  cannot and have  never dishonorably  discharged a                                                               
member using state law.  The  "worst thing" they can do is "other                                                               
than honorable characterization of  service," and there are times                                                               
where  other  than  honorable  discharge  is  not  sufficient  as                                                               
dishonorable  discharge would  be more  appropriate.   He pointed                                                               
out that  is a tool  he would like  available by passing  HB 126.                                                               
[Side 8  is a  duplicate of slide  4.]  He  referred to  slide 9,                                                               
depicting the five  primary tools used to enforce  Good Order and                                                               
Discipline:   Administrative actions;  Administrative separation;                                                               
and Alaska  criminal law  are all  currently available,  yet non-                                                               
judicial punishment  and courts-martial  under the ACMJ  are not.                                                               
He referred  to slide 10,  which depicts  the plan of  action and                                                               
reiterated that HB 126 is a  synthesis between HB 121 and HB 126,                                                               
which was joined within the  Military & Veterans Affairs Standing                                                               
Committee.   The  bill includes  several amendments  the National                                                               
Guard asked  for to expand the  type of soldiers and  airmen that                                                               
can be involved  on courts-martial.  He expanded that  it gets to                                                               
the resource constraints  they have in the guard in  that it is a                                                               
small guard  with relatively few  Judge Advocate and  other legal                                                               
resources.  He  stressed that the Alaska National  Guard needs to                                                               
be able to draw upon other  guards and the active duty components                                                               
that exist  in this state.   He expressed that  HB 126 is  a good                                                               
bill  which  would  lead  to a  functioning  system  of  military                                                               
justice; however,  it can be refined  in a number of  ways.  This                                                               
bill empowers  the National Guard to  create substantive offenses                                                               
and  regulation and  a Non-Judicial  Punishment (NJP)  regulation                                                               
instead  of putting  them in  statute.   He opined  that was  the                                                               
preference of  his command.  Over  the course of the  interim the                                                               
hope  is to  draw upon  commanders  and more  junior soldiers  to                                                               
gather their  input on  what that  should look like.   It  is his                                                               
plan that  in the late  fall or early winter  to bring it  to the                                                               
House Judiciary Standing Committee and  other members of the body                                                               
and say, "if you pass                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:15:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  referred to  slide (Indisc.)  wherein a                                                               
choice  was made  to  indicate  a middle  ground,  although as  a                                                               
practical matter, most of the  criminal offenses under Alaska law                                                               
will  remain with  the state.    He asked  why Lieutenant  Dunbar                                                               
didn't say that the National Guard  will take the Uniform Code of                                                               
Military Justice (UCMJ)  except for the following,  and carve out                                                               
a  few things  but basically  there is  a well-developed  already                                                               
existing  body of  law with  many reported  decisions and  it was                                                               
clear where it  wouldn't fit in Alaska.  As  far as the interface                                                               
between  that and  Title 11,  there is  now a  statute that  says                                                               
normally  if it  is  a civilian  crime it  goes  to the  civilian                                                               
authorities.  In that regard, the  wheel would not have to be re-                                                               
invented.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:16:53 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR  replied that  it is his  intention not  to re-                                                               
invent the wheel,  and perhaps taking a  slightly different wheel                                                               
than the UCMJ,  as he will draw upon what  other states have done                                                               
who have  taken much  of what  they have  done from  the National                                                               
Guard  Bureau.    He  reiterated the  National  Guard  Bureau  is                                                               
distinct  from the  active duty  component.   The National  Guard                                                               
Bureau itself  is a  synthesis and  only takes  out parts  of the                                                               
Federal  UCMJ, and  the Federal  UCMJ itself  is currently  going                                                               
through a state  of flux.  He advised that  the Federal UCMJ does                                                               
not  directly  apply in  all  cases  for  a variety  of  reasons.                                                               
Contained  within this  bill are  provisions specific  to Alaska,                                                               
such as, the  Model State Code and UCMJ  requires only two-thirds                                                               
of a panel for conviction in  a courts-martial.  He asserted that                                                               
the  Alaska State  Constitution provides  a stronger  right to  a                                                               
unanimous jury verdict and so the  law was changed to provide the                                                               
unanimous  right  through a  panel  decision  to guard's  members                                                               
which, he  opined, is appropriate to  the state law.   He further                                                               
replied to  Representative Gruenberg's question and  posited that                                                               
the drafters  of HB 121, in  particular, and HB 126  drew much of                                                               
the language from  the "State Mode Code" from  the National Guard                                                               
Bureau rather than directly from  the UCMJ, which is appropriate.                                                               
Differing areas,  he offered, is  that the "State Model  Code" is                                                               
not perfect and has some things  a bit archaic, such as, dueling.                                                               
He stated  that they are  in contact  with a Major,  considered a                                                               
legal academic at the JAG Legal  Center and School, and said that                                                               
she and her students are working  on this process and looking for                                                               
ways  to update  the  Federal UCMJ,  and also  state  codes in  a                                                               
manner that makes them more relevant for the modern era.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:19:30 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG pointed  out that  he sees  potentially                                                               
four different things:  the  Federal UMCJ, the state general UCMJ                                                               
that other states are using, "our thing," and Title 11.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:19:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX  expressed  concern  in  leaving  so  much  to  the                                                               
regulations  as she  may feel  more comfortable  working on  this                                                               
over  the  interim, putting  the  basics  into statute  and  then                                                               
issues more peripheral through regulations.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:20:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR  responded that he  does not want to  leave the                                                               
committee  with  the  impression  that  there is  not  a  lot  of                                                               
substantive law  in the  current statutes as  it a  39-page bill.                                                               
There are many constraints in  the bill and they are appreciative                                                               
of the notion  that their ability to  create substantive offenses                                                               
is  a considerable  power  they  are being  entrusted  with.   He                                                               
offered that  Oregon is the state  they drew on closely  and does                                                               
it through  regulation.   He advised  that he  and Representative                                                               
Gruenberg  discussed  the  possibility of  a  legislative  review                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:21:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  pointed out that  the language  in the bill  is not                                                               
even subject  to the Administrative Procedure  Act, and basically                                                               
the legislation is  giving the National Guard  carte blanche, and                                                               
there may be discomfort in that.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:22:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR  opined that  he would  not characterize  it as                                                               
carte blanche as  there are a number of constraints  in the bill,                                                               
but  it  is  true  that  they are  being  given  more  regulatory                                                               
authority  over  their  own  guard  people  than  other  agencies                                                               
typically  receive over  the general  public.   The reason  being                                                               
that they swear oaths to  uphold the Constitution and also follow                                                               
every general  command.  The  degree to which the  commanders can                                                               
already  regulate its  soldiers and  airmen through  orders could                                                               
surprise  people.   For example,  an order  could read  "Don't do                                                               
this broadly,"  as an  order does  not have to  be directly  to a                                                               
guardsman,  he  said.    In the  event  the  full  Administrative                                                               
Procedures  Act is  applied to  all of  the regulations  it would                                                               
likely  delay  the  implementation  of these  regulations  for  a                                                               
considerable amount  of time.   He stressed that they  would like                                                               
to  have a  functioning Code  of Military  Justice as  quickly as                                                               
possible during the next session.   Although, he pointed out, for                                                               
those  regulations  and  changes to  regulations  thereafter,  to                                                               
implement a more thorough regulatory review process.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:23:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  opined that the  first group of  regulations should                                                               
be  adopted into  statute because  by then  the members  have all                                                               
vetted the regulations.   Put those into statute  and perhaps the                                                               
next group  doesn't have to  be in  statute but still  requires a                                                               
vetting process.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:24:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LIEUTENANT DUNBAR related  a concern of the  National Guard being                                                               
if a regulation is initially put  into statute and realizes it is                                                               
not  workable, it  could  be difficult  to come  back  and get  a                                                               
revision.   He opined that  not putting initial  regulations into                                                               
statute allows the flexibility to change things ...                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:24:44 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX interjected  that the  legislature deals  with that                                                               
sort of thing all the time,  as the legislature passes a law, and                                                               
if not working  out as expected that is what  the next session is                                                               
for.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:25:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BROWN responded  that while HB 126 would  be granting greater                                                               
regulatory authority  to the Department of  Military and Veterans                                                               
Affairs than other agencies or  department generally receive.  He                                                               
explained that  when those agencies  craft regulations,  they are                                                               
crafting them  for everyone  in the  state, Alaska  residents and                                                               
visitors,  period.   The  DMVA  is asking  for  the authority  to                                                               
police  the 4,000  people who  volunteered and  swore oaths.   He                                                               
suggested these are  not comparable situations in  that the extra                                                               
element  should be  taken into  account  as part  of the  greater                                                               
conversation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:25:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG argued  that Mr.  Brown's statement  is                                                               
not always  true, such as,  the Alaska Public  Offices Commission                                                               
(APOC).    He  advised  that  Lieutenant  Dunbar  and  he  had  a                                                               
discussion regarding  the initial language being  in statute but,                                                               
thereafter, the  DMVA could prepare regulations  under the Alaska                                                               
Procedures  Act (APA).   The  rule making  provisions in  the APA                                                               
quasi-legislature requires  notice to the  general public  and an                                                               
opportunity  to  comment,  but  it  would  still  come  into  the                                                               
department,  he   explained.    The  department   would  evaluate                                                               
anything and come  back to the legislature in  order to determine                                                               
whether there is a problem, he noted.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:26:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CLAMAN  proposed  a   hybrid  approach  that  the                                                               
department propose  regulations for  the legislature to  adopt on                                                               
an up  or down  basis and  not get  too involved  in the  idea of                                                               
specific  language  in  specific  statutes or  regulations.    He                                                               
suggested the legislature  look at the drafts as  a whole, rather                                                               
than becoming experts in military  justice, and it still receives                                                               
legislative review.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:28:05 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  offered that having served  as Joint Chair                                                               
of the Administrative Regulation  Review Committee, that does not                                                               
work well  and is  a waste of  time, he opined.   "It  seems like                                                               
whether engaged or  not but ... how many  regulation notices have                                                               
we  gotten during  session and,  frankly I  confess, I  don't get                                                               
through the details like I sure wish I could," he posited.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CLAMAN said he  was suggesting something different                                                               
from just regulatory  review in that the entire  Code of Military                                                               
Justice  come before  the legislature  for specific  review in  a                                                               
more   systematic  manner   than   the   legislature  gets   from                                                               
regulations that show up from time to time.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:28:59 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG remarked that  he was thinking along the                                                               
same line  in that they would  submit it to the  legislature, and                                                               
the Military  and Veterans Affairs Committee  that specializes in                                                               
this could review it, or the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LEDOUX  reiterated  that   the  House  Judiciary  Standing                                                               
Committee has the entire interim to review HB 126.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX opened public testimony                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:29:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG asked  Bob Doehl,  Deputy Commissioner,                                                               
whether  he  had  any  direct experience  while  in  the  service                                                               
dealing with the Code of Military Justice.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:30:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
BOB   DOEHL,   Deputy    Commissioner,   Commissioner's   Office,                                                               
Department of Military and Veterans  Affairs (DMVA), responded in                                                               
the affirmative  to Representative Gruenberg, and  stated that as                                                               
a commander  utilizing the  Code of  Military Justice  for action                                                               
necessary to  maintain Good Order  and Discipline  in determining                                                               
whether formal court-martial  was appropriate versus non-judicial                                                               
punishment.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
2:30:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLER  questioned when  a guardsman is  on active                                                               
duty for training, whether that  is a separate category addressed                                                               
differently.  He asked the status  of a person who is active duty                                                               
for two-weeks of training stents.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. DOEHL  answered that generally  an individual on  active duty                                                               
for training  is under Title  32, meaning  that they do  not come                                                               
under the  Federal Uniform Code  of Military Justice,  but rather                                                               
under state law.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
2:31:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR LEDOUX  closed public testimony  after ascertaining  no one                                                               
further wished to testify, and announced HB 126 is held over.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:32:27 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:32 p.m.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects | 
|---|---|---|
| SB 5 ALCAN Engineering Support.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 2011 - 2013 Alaska Property Loss Summary.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 AGC Support.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 AS 11.46.980 Determination of Value.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 Crime Index Offense Summary 2009-2013.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 Fiscal Notes.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 NFIB Support.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 Orion Marine Group Support.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 State Chamber Support.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 Welsh Appellate Opinion.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5 Welsh Case Brief and Commentary.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB 5.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB5 Section Analysis.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| SB5 Sponsor Statement.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
SB   5 | 
            
| HB0126A.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
HB 126 | 
            
| HB0126E.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
HB 126 | 
            
| HB126 SECTIONAL ANALYSIS - ver E.docx.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
HB 126 | 
            
| HB126 Sponsor Statement.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
HB 126 | 
            
| Memo 15-101.dla.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
HB 126 | 
            
| HB 126 - ACMJ Presentation V4.pdf | 
                    
HJUD       4/14/2015 1:00:00 PM | 
                
                    
HB 126 |