Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/21/1994 01:15 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
March 21, 1994
1:15 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Brian Porter, Chairman
Rep. Jeannette James, Vice-Chair
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Gail Phillips
Rep. Joe Green
Rep. Cliff Davidson
Rep. Jim Nordlund
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 84: "An Act implementing certain recommendations of
Alaska 2000 to improve the state's education
system; and providing for an effective date."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE
HB 351: "An Act relating to the issuance of permits for
the carrying of a concealed weapon."
PASSED FROM COMMITTEE AS AMENDED
HB 420: "An Act relating to limited liability companies;
amending Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure 20 and
24; and providing for an effective date."
NOT HEARD
HB 392: "An Act relating to the confidentiality of
permanent fund dividend application information;
relating to the permanent fund dividend program;
and providing for an effective date."
NOT HEARD
*HB 518: "An Act extending the termination date of the
Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar Association;
and providing for an effective date."
NOT HEARD
SB 151: "An Act providing for oil and gas exploration
incentive credits for certain activities on
certain land in the state; and providing for an
effective date."
NOT HEARD
WITNESS REGISTER
SHEILA PETERSON
Legislative Liaison
Department of Education
801 W. 10th St., Suite 200
Juneau, AK 99801-1894
465-8677
Position Statement: Commented on HB 84
ERIC MUSSER, Staff
Rep. Brian Porter
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Rm. 118
Juneau, AK 99801
465-4930
Position Statement: Explained CSHB 351
SGT. DAN LOWDEN
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 111200
Juneau, AK 99811-1200
465-4322
Position Statement: Opposed HB 351
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 84
SHORT TITLE: IMPLEMENT ALASKA 2000 RECOMMENDATIONS
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 135 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 135 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
01/22/93 135 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (DOE) 1/22/93
01/22/93 136 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/18/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/18/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
02/18/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/05/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/06/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/06/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
10/20/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
01/26/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
01/26/94 (H) MINUTE(HES)
01/31/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
01/31/94 (H) MINUTE(HES)
02/04/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/08/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/08/94 (H) MINUTE(HES)
02/11/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/14/94 2368 (H) HES RPT CS(HES) NEW TITLE
3DP 1DNP 3NR
02/14/94 2369 (H) DP: VEZEY, BUNDE, TOOHEY
02/14/94 2369 (H) DNP: B.DAVIS
02/14/94 2369 (H) NR: KOTT, G.DAVIS, OLBERG
02/14/94 2369 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (DOE) 2/14/94
03/18/94 (H) JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HB 351
SHORT TITLE: PERMIT TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES,Bunde,Olberg,Sanders
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/07/94 2019 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2019 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2020 (H) STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE
01/12/94 2043 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS
01/22/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
01/22/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/12/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/12/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
02/24/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/24/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/02/94 2573 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) NEW TITLE
5DP 1NR
03/02/94 2573 (H) DP: VEZEY,KOTT,G.DAVIS,OLBERG,
SANDERS
03/02/94 2573 (H) NR: ULMER
03/02/94 2573 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (H.STA FOR DPS)
3/2/94
03/21/94 (H) JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HB 420
SHORT TITLE: LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANIES
BILL VERSION: SSHB 420
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Mulder
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/31/94 2206 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/31/94 2206 (H) L&C, JUDICIARY, STATE AFFAIRS
02/24/94 2522 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE
INTRODUCED-REFERRALS
02/24/94 2522 (H) L&C, JUDICIARY, STATE AFFAIRS
03/08/94 (H) L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17
03/09/94 2676 (H) L&C RPT 1DP 3NR
03/09/94 2676 (H) DP: MULDER
03/09/94 2676 (H) NR: WILLIAMS, SITTON, HUDSON
03/09/94 2676 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED) 3/9/94
03/09/94 2703 (H) COSPONSOR(S): MULDER
03/18/94 (H) JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HB 392
SHORT TITLE: PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND PROGRAM
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PARNELL
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/21/94 2125 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/21/94 2125 (H) STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE
02/22/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
02/22/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/03/94 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102
03/03/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/03/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/03/94 (H) MINUTE(STA)
03/04/94 2605 (H) STA RPT CS(STA) 2DP 3NR
03/04/94 2605 (H) DP: VEZEY, G.DAVIS
03/04/94 2605 (H) NR: KOTT, OLBERG, SANDERS
03/04/94 2605 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV) 3/4/94
03/18/94 (H) JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: HB 518
SHORT TITLE: EXTEND ALASKA BAR ASSOCIATION
SPONSOR(S): JUDICIARY
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/04/94 2608 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/04/94 2608 (H) JUDICIARY
03/21/94 (H) JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120
BILL: SB 151
SHORT TITLE: OIL & GAS EXPLORATION INCENTIVE CREDITS
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/05/93 618 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
03/05/93 618 (S) OIL & GAS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
03/05/93 618 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DNR, REV)
03/05/93 619 (S) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
03/16/93 (S) O&G AT 08:00 AM
03/16/93 (H) MINUTE(O&G)
03/16/93 (S) MINUTE(O&G)
03/23/93 (S) O&G AT 05:00 PM BUTROVICH
ROOM 205
03/23/93 (S) MINUTE(O&G)
03/30/93 (S) MINUTE(O&G)
03/31/93 1002 (S) O&G RPT 3DP 1DNP/AM
03/31/93 1002 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FNS (DNR, REV)
04/15/93 1418 (S) JUD REFERRAL WAIVED Y11 N9
04/18/93 1468 (S) FIN RPT 6DP 1DNP
04/18/93 1468 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FNS (DNR, REV)
04/18/93 (S) FIN AT 01:00 PM SENATE FINANCE
ROOM 518
04/18/93 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/18/93 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/21/93 1613 (S) RULES 3CAL 1NR 4/21/93
04/21/93 1620 (S) MOVED TO BOTTOM OF CALENDAR
04/21/93 1633 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/21/93 1633 (S) AM NO 1 FAILED Y9 N11
04/21/93 1634 (S) AM NO 2 FAILED Y7 N13
04/21/93 1634 (S) ADVANCE TO THIRD READING FAILED
Y11 N9
04/21/93 1634 (S) THIRD READING 4/22 CALENDAR
04/22/93 1675 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SB 151
04/22/93 1675 (S) PASSED Y14 N6
04/22/93 1675 (S) EFFECTIVE DATES SAME AS PASSAGE
04/22/93 1675 (S) JACKO NOTICE OF RECONSID-
ERATION
04/23/93 1714 (S) RECON TAKEN UP/IN THIRD READING
04/23/93 1715 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y14 N6
04/23/93 1715 (S) EFFECTIVE DATES SAME AS PASSAGE
04/23/93 1717 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/24/93 1508 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
04/24/93 1508 (H) OIL & GAS, RESOURCES, FINANCE
01/31/94 (H) O&G AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124
01/31/94 (H) MINUTE(O&G)
02/02/94 2215 (H) ADOPT AMENDMENT
02/02/94 2215 (H) O&G RPT 3DP 2NR
02/02/94 2215 (H) DP: KOTT, G. DAVIS, GREEN
02/02/94 2215 (H) NR: SITTON, OLBERG
02/02/94 2215 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DNR) 2/2/94
02/02/94 2216 (H) JUD REFERRAL ADDED
02/23/94 (H) MINUTE(ECO)
03/04/94 (H) RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124
03/04/94 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/07/94 2641 (H) RES RPT HCS(RES) 6DP
03/07/94 2641 (H) DP: HUDSON, GREEN, JAMES,
MULDER
03/07/94 2641 (H) DP: BUNDE, WILLIAMS
03/07/94 2641 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV) 3/7/94
03/07/94 2641 (H) -PREVIOUS ZERO FISCAL NOTE
(DNR) 2/2/94
03/21/94 (H) JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-47, SIDE A
Number 000
The House Judiciary Standing Committee was called to order
at 1:22 p.m., on March 21, 1994. A quorum was present.
Chairman Porter announced that the committee would take up
HB 84 first, HB 351 next, and with time permitting will take
up HB 420 and HB 392.
HB 84 - IMPLEMENT ALASKA 2000 RECOMMENDATIONS
Number 045
REP. JIM NORDLUND offered Amendment 1, which would require
by law school districts to do two evaluations on teachers
per year. He noted that this is generally done by most
school districts in the state, but there was testimony heard
in both the Judiciary Committee and the HESS Committee that
those evaluations were not being done.
REP. NORDLUND said the amendment would also change the
awarding of tenure from four years to three years. The
fourth year being a probationary period.
REP. NORDLUND went on to explain by section that:
Section 6 is conforming.
Section 7 (c) sets up provisions for three year tenures.
Section 7 (d) sets up the two year evaluation requirement.
Section 7 (g) sets up the improvement plan that would be
required for probationary period in the fourth year.
REP. NORDLUND also noted the provision in the amendment that
states tenure would be granted after two years if no
evaluation was done.
Number 162
REP. NORDLUND moved Amendment 1.
Number 170
REP. GAIL PHILLIPS objected and said that it is already
established in regulation that school districts provide two
evaluations per year for nontenure teachers and one
evaluation per year for tenure teachers. She noted that in
her discussions with the School Board Association and with
the NEA (National Education Association), she heard of the
concerns of the evaluation process but said she felt it was
not the function of the legislature to tell school districts
how to do there administrative business.
REP. PHILLIPS went on to say the legislature could provide a
letter of intent or suggestions. She reiterated her concern
about circumventing the powers between the administration
and the legislature. She referenced page 3, Section 8 of
Amendment 1, establishing a statewide evaluation process,
and said that would require an extremely high fiscal note.
She urged members to vote no.
Number 193
REP. JEANNETTE JAMES aired her concerns about tenure. She
said that she felt the main problem was with tenure itself
and thus far she had not seen anything that dealt with or
resolved that issue.
Number 215
REP. NORDLUND, in response to Rep. Phillips' concern,
pointed out that the evaluations are in regulations but the
testimony received by the committee states that the
evaluations are not being done.
REP. NORDLUND spoke to Rep. James' concern by saying
Amendment 1 was simply a variation of Rep. Phillips'
proposal and changing from a four year tenure review to a
three year tenure review.
Number 265
REP. PHILLIPS reiterated her concern about the legislature
telling the school districts how to do business.
Number 280
REP. JAMES said she did not feel that the Judiciary
committee substitute (CS) nor the amendment to the CS
addressed the problem of teacher evaluation and she would
rather vote for the original bill.
Number 302
REP. CLIFF DAVIDSON asked Rep. James if she felt HB 84 was
not necessary.
Number 423
REP. JAMES said she did not feel that changing tenure from
two years to four years would make any difference at all and
that the problem was with the term "tenure." She went on to
say she felt there should be a relationship between teachers
and the school district that better defines and identifies
what is a good teacher. In addition, she said that she felt
there needed to be an ongoing evaluation of teachers, and
tenure does not provide that opportunity and therefore she
was opposed to tenure.
Number 449
REP. DAVIDSON commented that more is being asked of teachers
in terms of service, but less is provided in terms of
resources. In addition, teachers live in a very political
environment, and because of this he felt that tenure was
essential.
Number 460
REP. JAMES commented that teachers are one of the most
important employees in the state. She further noted that
tenure is not working because there is no communication
between parents, teachers, and school boards.
REP. NORDLUND clarified that the issue at hand was Amendment
1. He further clarified the amendment by stating that
changing the tenure from four years to three years would
assure the evaluations will be done as well and be less of a
burden on administrators. He asked SHEILA PETERSON if there
is currently a evaluation training in place.
Number 514
SHEILA PETERSON, Legislative Liaison, Department of
Education, said there was not currently an evaluation
training in place.
REP. NORDLUND asked what the fiscal impact of the amendment
would be.
Number 535
MS. PETERSON said that anytime a department implements any
kind of training it will have a significant fiscal impact.
Currently the department does not have any trained
professionals in the area of evaluation.
Number 542
REP. NORDLUND offered an amendment to Amendment 1 to delete
Section 8, removing the evaluation training provision.
Number 551
REP. DAVIDSON said that in order to get to the real tenure
issue a statewide evaluation process must be established.
He said he would vote for the amendment to the amendment but
questioned whether or not the committee was doing the right
thing. He added that without a uniform way of doing
evaluations, a teacher could be unfairly treated.
Number 599
The amendment to the amendment to delete Section 8 from
Amendment 1 passed without objection.
Number 600
CHAIR PORTER said he did not intend to vote for the
amendment because the issue being addressed was already set
out in statute and the issue was not that evaluations were
not being done but how they were being done.
CHAIR PORTER also said that we live in a very diverse state
and an amendment laying out specifics as in Amendment 1
would not be applicable for all communities.
Number 671
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 1.
NO: Kott, Phillips, Green, James, Porter.
YES: Davidson and Nordlund.
Amendment 1 failed to pass.
Number 702
REP. DAVIDSON offered Amendment 2, which provides that
teachers receive tenure after two years, but if they are not
fully tenured by the fourth year and still retained, tenure
would be automatic.
REP. PHILLIPS objected. A roll call vote was taken.
NO: Kott, Phillips, Green, James, Porter.
YES: Davidson and Nordlund.
Amendment 2 failed.
CHAIR PORTER announced that CSHB 84(JUD) was before the
committee and asked for any further discussion.
CSHB 84: "An Act relating to grants for the improvement of
school performance and to teacher tenure rights; and
providing for an effective date."
Number 732
REP. DAVIDSON said that the contents of CSHB 84(JUD)
regarding tenure were unfair in that teachers spend a great
deal of time going to school to become certified and it was
his contention that an additional four years to wait for
tenure was too much.
Number 762
REP. NORDLUND said he felt that CSHB 84(JUD) was an
improvement to the HESS version, but maintained that going
from two years to four years was too big a step. He added
that the problem with evaluations would only be made worse
by having teachers evaluated in the fourth year instead of
the second year and this would be an injustice to the
students as well as the teacher.
REP. NORDLUND went on to say that he hoped the Finance
Committee would consider the idea of the three year tenure.
REP. NORDLUND said he would not maintain his objection to
move the bill out.
Number 782
REP. JOE GREEN said he intended to vote in favor of the
current bill, but added that he had a problem with the
removal of the removal provision.
Number 792
CHAIR PORTER said that he would vote in favor of CSHB
84(JUD), but reluctantly. He added that it was not the job
of the legislature to deal with labor/management
negotiations.
Number 811
REP. PHILLIPS said she was disappointed that since the
governor put forth the education reform bill that the
legislature has narrowed it down to two issues, one issuing
grants and one extending tenure.
Number 818
REP. JAMES also expressed disappointment and concurred with
Rep. Phillips.
Number 835
REP. PETE KOTT expressed his disappointment and echoed
comments of Rep. Phillips and Chair Porter. He added that
he would not support CSHB 84(JUD).
Number 849
REP. DAVIDSON said he felt the bill played to politics
rather than to individual's integrity.
Number 860
REP. PHILLIPS motioned to move CSHB 84(JUD) with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal notes.
NO: Kott, Davidson.
YES: Nordlund, Phillips, Green, James, Porter.
CSHB 84(JUD) was passed out of committee with individual
recommendations and attached fiscal notes.
HB 351 - PERMIT TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS
Number 885
CHAIR PORTER announced that HB 351 would be heard next and
that there was a committee substitute before the committee.
He asked ERIC MUSSER to come forward to speak to the changes
in HB 351.
TAPE 94-47, SIDE B
Number 022
REP. DAVIDSON asked if it was Chair Porter's intention to
move the bill from committee.
Number 040
CHAIR PORTER said that it was his intent to try to move the
bill and pointed out that there had been a great deal of
public testimony taken in the State Affairs Committee.
REP. NORDLUND said he was concerned about being able to
understand the bill.
Number 139
ERIC MUSSER, Staff, Rep. Brian Porter, addressed CSHB 351.
He said on line 1 the title was amended, replacing handgun
for concealed weapon. He explained that:
Section 1: provides for an affirmative defense.
Section 2, line 10: "and locked" was added.
Section 3: stayed the same as the original bill.
Section 4: the following requirements were added --
applicants must submit two complete sets of fingerprints;
provide two frontal view color photographs; must provide a
valid Alaska drivers license; and be physically and mentally
capable to carry a concealed handgun safely.
Additional changes were made with regard to the issuing of a
permit: a thirty day waiting period was added to replace
the language that would allow for immediate issuance of a
permit.
Under subsection 9(c), a permit would be valid for three
years, replacing the five year provision in the original
bill.
Page 3, line 23, qualifications:
Line 28: "...has not been convicted of" was added; and the
misdemeanor offense was added. A list of these misdemeanors
are on file.
Under the residency requirement on page 4, line 11: ninety
days was added to replace one year.
Page 4, line 27: "involuntary" was added.
Under the application section on page 5, line 11: "physical
residence" was added; and on line 13, "Alaska state driver's
license or identification card number" was added to the list
of information needed on the application.
Page 5, line 17: the provision was added that an applicant
must provide a demonstrated need for the permit.
Page 6, line 2: it was added that any other information
could be added to the list of application requirements that
the department deemed necessary.
Page 6, under demonstration of competence, line 6: "is
approved by the department" was added; and on line 7, "The
certificate must state the type and size of handguns the
applicant has demonstrated competence with." was added.
Further language was added that restricted the applicant to
carry only the handguns outlined in the above provisions.
Additional provision were added as follows:
The permittee must demonstrate knowledge of Alaska law
relating to firearms and the use of deadly force as well as
demonstrate competence with each type and size handgun they
wish to carry.
Line 19: a permittee must undergo a refresher coarse every
six years.
Line 26: the department shall establish a fee based on the
actual costs incurred to issue the permit and process
application.
Under the renewal section, page 7, line 10: a permittee
must submit two frontal photographs and a single thumb
print.
Under replacement of permit, page 7, line 24: same
provisions as outlined in line 10.
Under suspension of permit, page 8, line 4: it was added
that an individual under an injunction under AS 25.35.010 -
25.35.020 (domestic violence restraining order) would not
be eligible for a permit.
Under revocation of permit, page 8, line 30: a permittee is
allowed to appeal revocation to the Commissioner of Public
Safety.
Under liability, page 9, line 4: a line added officers and
employees to the list of those not liable for actions of the
permittee for which they served.
Under possession and display, page 9, line 21: provided a
definition for "contacted by a peace officer" and outlined
the result of a violation of that section.
Under places where permittee may not possess concealed
handgun: "school grounds", (8) "a municipality or
established village that has prohibited the possession of
concealed handguns..." was added.
Page 10, line 10: establishes penalty for a Class B
misdemeanor.
Under misuse of permit, page 10, line 12: the penalty was
set forth as a Class A misdemeanor.
Under responsibility of permittee, page 10, line 27: it was
added that a permittee may only carry the type and size of
concealed hand gun with which the holder had demonstrated
competency. If this section is violated it would be
punishable by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars.
Page 11, line 5, under regulations: provides authority to
the Department of Public Safety to implement regulations.
Page 11, line 7, under prohibition: there was a new section
establishing the ballot question for a village or a
municipality to opt out.
Page 11 establishes a section to outline the procedure of a
village or municipality in which to opt out.
Page 12, line 16: the definition for concealed handgun was
added. Excluded from the definition were shotguns, rifles,
derringers or other miniature handguns.
Number 396
REP. JEANNETTE JAMES, Prime Sponsor of HB 351, said that she
felt a permitting system for carrying a concealed weapon was
needed in the state because people are carrying them now and
may not be legal. Secondly, with the increase in crime rate
and less funds to support an adequate police force, a right
to carry a concealed handgun was a matter of public safety.
The bill also requires training which provides for gun
safety. She continued to summarize the bill, echoing the
comments made by Mr. Musser.
REP. JAMES said she felt the most important part of the bill
was the provision stating the demonstration of competency
with the concealed weapon. She added that this provision
was very important because it states the permittee must also
have knowledge of and understand the laws outlining gun
safety.
She said she supported the CSHB 351(JUD).
Number 475
REP. DAVIDSON asked if the tracking of the permits would be
done by the department.
Number 480
REP. JAMES responded yes, the tracking would be done by the
department.
Number 490
REP. DAVIDSON said that he felt it was important that the
local communities do the tracking.
Number 500
REP. JAMES said that Rep. Davidson's concerns had been
addressed when deliberating on the bill previously. The
concern was equal treatment. She said it was better to have
uniformity and that could be done by the department and not
necessarily be possible to do that with all the different
communities. She went on to say that a list of all permit
holders would be available for each community.
Number 510
CHAIR PORTER brought up another related issue that some Bush
communities were not in favor of this bill because the
village public safety officers (VPSO) do not carry a fire
arm. The addition of the opt out provision was a result of
this concern.
Number 530
REP. NORDLUND said he felt that the opt out provision was
set up to fail because the people in the community would all
vote for carrying concealed weapons and the one VPSO would
vote against.
Number 535
CHAIR PORTER said he was encouraged from the testimony
around the state that villages are looking more towards the
advice and counsel of their elders.
Number 549
REP. NORDLUND restated and maintained his concern.
Number 554
CHAIR PORTER noted there was nothing precluding someone from
carrying a firearm now.
Number 558
REP. JAMES commented that there is a stringent list of
requirements, qualifications and training a permittee has to
meet before receiving a permit. In light of that, she felt
that these people would not be a threat to the VPSO.
Number 571
REP. DAVIDSON asked why the municipalities didn't decide for
themselves ("opting in") the possibility of having concealed
weapons in their community.
Number 581
REP. JAMES said she felt that if that happened there would
not be equality.
Number 591
REP. DAVIDSON asked if there was any discussion about
liability insurance.
REP. JAMES said that it had been discussed, but there was no
valid reason concluding that insurance would be provided,
and it was a personal option. She went on to say that in
other states where concealed weapon permits are allowed,
there is only a small percentage of accidental shootings.
REP. DAVIDSON commented that there was no psychological
profile provision in the bill.
Number 643
REP. PHILLIPS asked why the residency requirement was
changed from one year to 90 days.
Number 647
MR. MUSSER said this was simply conforming to other
provisions within the bill.
Number 655
REP. PHILLIPS asked about the potential problem of moving
around the state and moves from a community that allows a
concealed weapons permit to a village that has opted out of
the provision.
Number 662
CHAIR PORTER said the Department of Public Safety would
provide a list of those communities that opt out to the
permittee and that it is required of a permittee to know all
Alaskan laws regarding a concealed weapon.
Number 682
MR. MUSSER referenced page 10, line 19, under permittee
responsibilities -- a permittee will be given a copy of the
law and they must sign a statement saying they understand
the provisions of the law. It is also required of the
permittee that they notify the department within thirty days
of any change of address.
Number 692
There was general discussion regarding the statement of
"mentally and physically capable."
Number 749
REP. JAMES commented that there was a certification process
approved by the department and through that process the
department would most likely have the ability to see if the
person was not mentally or physically capable.
Number 796
REP. JAMES asked how proficiency would be measured.
Number 805
CHAIR PORTER said that it would part of the regulations.
Number 820
REP. GREEN referenced page 6, line 27, regarding "actual
costs" to the department and asked if it was the intent of
the revision that the amount reflected in the fiscal note
would actually come out of fees charged.
Number 828
REP. JAMES said that the committee could disregard the State
Affairs fiscal note and the intent of the Judiciary
committee substitute was to be revenue neutral.
Number 831
REP. PHILLIPS referenced page 3, line 14-17, the section
that provides for a retired police officer to be exempt from
permit fees.
Number 837
REP. JAMES said she had an amendment to delete that section.
Number 849
REP. NORDLUND asked about the "demonstrated need" provision.
It was noted that there was an amendment by Rep. James to
deal with that concern. In addition, Rep. Nordlund asked
for clarification regarding where handguns were not allowed
and specifically asked about adding banks, bars and schools
to the list.
Number 855
CHAIR PORTER said that these institutions were included in
the existing law.
Number 867
REP. NORDLUND asked for clarification of the "suspension of
permit" provisions and the provisions of a violation of this
section. Specifically, he asked what would be the result if
a person had not recertified or if an individual had lied on
their application.
Number 880
CHAIR PORTER addressed the concerns by referencing the
section on revocation of license and noted that if a person
lied on an application their permit would be revoked.
Number 886
REP. NORDLUND asked what the position of the Department of
Public Safety was.
TAPE 94-48, SIDE A
Number 000
SGT. DAN LOWDEN, Department of Public Safety, said the
department opposed HB 351 in principle for two reasons: (1)
the current laws provide enough for people to protect
themselves; and (2) the department had concerns about the
safety of the public at large.
REP. NORDLUND asked if in fact the provisions in the law
would create a safer environment.
Number 093
SGT. LOWDEN said he didn't see that there was a need for HB
351. He said he had not seen a lot of illegal activity
regarding concealed weapons. In addition, the training
requirements are such that he didn't know if the department
could place them on the public.
REP. JAMES commented that perhaps the reason that the
department has not had problems with those carrying
concealed weapons is because those who carry them do not
break the law.
Number 121
SGT. LOWDEN agreed and clarified his point by saying that
because he had not found those breaking the law he didn't
see the need for a new law.
Number 146
REP. GREEN asked about Florida's concealed weapons law and
said there is information to show that since the inception
of a concealed weapons law the crime rate has gone down.
Number 155
REP. LOWDEN said he didn't agree with the statement
regarding crime rate going down. He said the statistics the
Department had show that violent crime has continued to
rise.
Number 214
REP. JAMES said that the statistics may reflect the influx
of tourists into that community.
MR. LOWDEN commented that Alaska is also a tourist state.
Number 231
REP. DAVIDSON asked Mr. Lowden to speculate how many permits
may be applied for and asked if this was reflected in the
fiscal note.
Number 243
MR. LOWDEN said the fiscal note was based on a four percent
of the population applying. The numbers were based on data
from Florida, Washington and Oregon. In addition, he said
the figures were also an attempt to keep the fiscal note
revenue neutral.
Number 279
REP. DAVIDSON asked if, in general, the state of Alaska has
more people carrying firearms.
Number 286
MR. LOWDEN said he did not know of any quantitative study
that addressed that issue.
Number 320
REP. PHILLIPS asked if the department would add to the list
of qualifications outlined in this bill if the department
was writing the bill.
Number 325
MR. LOWDEN said that the department would not support the
bill at all. However, he said it may have been better to
say that a person convicted of a felony in a given time
period would not be eligible for a permit. He also added
that the list in the bill is standard for this type of
legislation.
Number 372
REP. DAVIDSON asked the department would measure "knowledge"
with regard to use of a handgun.
Number 380
MR. LOWDEN said the National Rifle Association personal
protection course includes proficiency, safety and legal
issues. This is a standard test that the department would
most likely use.
Number 407
CHAIR PORTER asked if it would be required that an
individual have a successful completion of the course rather
than just attendance.
Number 410
MR. LOWDEN said yes and added that it would be established
in statute.
Number 428
REP. DAVIDSON asked if the department would feel more
comfortable with a sunset provision in the bill.
Number 448
MR. LOWDEN said the sunset provision was not addressed.
Number 449
REP. DAVIDSON asked the Chairman if the idea of a sunset
provision was addressed.
Number 457
REP. JAMES said that no sunset provision was addressed and
it was her feeling that once a law is on the books it should
stay there and she did not support the idea of a sunset
provision.
Number 460
REP. NORDLUND asked Sgt. Lowden if the crime rate would be
impacted by the passage of this law.
Number 477
MR. LOWDEN said the department, in researching the issue,
found Oregon, Florida and California to be comparable and it
was found that having a concealed weapons law did not have
an impact on crime in those states.
REP. JAMES moved Amendment 1, which would remove
"demonstrated need" on page 5, lines 17-18. This amendment
would remove the provision that an applicant provide a
demonstrated need to carry a concealed handgun.
CHAIR PORTER said he would prefer that it be left in because
studies show that of fifteen states researched, with this
type of legislation, eight had a "demonstrated need"
provision.
Number 577
REP. NORDLUND opposed the amendment because he felt that the
definition of "demonstrated need" was broad enough. In
addition, he said he felt an individual should have to
express a need for the permit.
Number 582
REP. PHILLIPS aired a concern about the removal of
"demonstrated need."
Number 593
REP. JAMES made a motion to adopt CSHB 351(JUD) dated
3/18/94. With no objection, CSHB 351(JUD) was adopted.
Number 610
A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 1.
NO: Nordlund, Davidson, Porter.
YES: Kott, Phillips, Green, James.
Amendment 1 was adopted.
REP. JAMES offered Amendment 2, which would delete all
material on page 3, lines 12-22, thereby removing the
provision giving retired police officers free permits; and
on page 12, lines 11-14, deletes all material thereby
removing the definition of alcohol.
Number 633
REP. DAVIDSON asked to divide the question. There was no
objection to dividing the question. Amendment 2 was before
the committee to delete page 3, lines 12-22.
Number 647
REP. DAVIDSON said that perhaps this section would be better
left in, given the current situation with dwindling
resources to fund more police officers; at least the state
could provide a free permit to arm them.
Number 658
REP. KOTT said he did not feel that a retired police officer
should have that benefit.
Number 665
REP. DAVIDSON maintained his objection and a roll call vote
was taken.
NO: Davidson.
YES: Nordlund, Phillips, Green, Kott, James, Porter.
Amendment 2 was adopted.
Number 678
CHAIR PORTER announced that Amendment 3 was before the
committee on page 12, lines 11-14, to delete all materials.
He said the purpose of the amendment is to remove the
definition of alcohol.
Number 679
Amendment 3 was moved and adopted without objection.
Number 680
CHAIR PORTER asked the wish of the committee.
Number 685
REP. DAVIDSON said he would like to hear more public input.
Number 693
REP. PHILLIPS moved CSHB 351(JUD) with individual
recommendations.
Number 700
REP. KOTT said he supported moving the bill out.
Number 710
REP. GREEN said he had some grave concerns about the bill
but he heard overwhelming support for it from his
constituents and therefore would support it.
Number 718
CHAIR PORTER said he was concerned about people carrying a
concealed firearm, but he would support moving the bill from
committee.
Number 720
A roll call vote was taken on CSHB 351(JUD). The bill
passed unanimously.
CHAIR PORTER adjourned the meeting at 3:45 p.m.
BILL(S) NOT HEARD TODAY:
HB 420 - LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANIES
HB 392 - PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND PROGRAM
HB 518 - EXTEND ALASKA BAR ASSOCIATION
SB 151 - OIL & GAS EXPLORATION INCENTIVE CREDITS
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