Legislature(2017 - 2018)GRUENBERG 120

01/26/2018 01:00 PM JUDICIARY

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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= HB 13 NO ST/MUNI FUNDS: FED IMMIGRAT REGISTRY TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
+= HB 216 TRANSFERS FROM DIVIDEND FUND; CRIMES TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSSHB 216(JUD) Out of Committee
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                        January 26, 2018                                                                                        
                           1:00 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Matt Claman, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Jonathan Kreiss-Tomkins                                                                                          
Representative Gabrielle LeDoux                                                                                                 
Representative David Eastman                                                                                                    
Representative Chuck Kopp                                                                                                       
Representative Charisse Millett (alternate)                                                                                     
Representative Louise Stutes (alternate)                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Zach Fansler, Vice Chair                                                                                         
Representative Lora Reinbold                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 216                                                                                       
"An  Act  relating to  restitution;  relating  to the  office  of                                                               
victims' rights;  relating to transfers  from the  dividend fund;                                                               
creating   the   restorative   justice   account;   relating   to                                                               
appropriations from the restorative  justice account for services                                                               
for  and  payments  to  crime victims,  operating  costs  of  the                                                               
Violent   Crimes  Compensation   Board,  operation   of  domestic                                                               
violence and sexual assault programs,  mental health services and                                                               
substance  abuse  treatment   for  offenders,  and  incarceration                                                               
costs;  relating  to  delinquent  minors; and  providing  for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSSHB 216(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 13                                                                                                               
"An Act prohibiting the expenditure  of state or municipal assets                                                               
to create a registry based on race or religion."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD & HELD                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 216                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: TRANSFERS FROM DIVIDEND FUND; CRIMES                                                                               
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) KOPP                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
04/07/17       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
04/07/17       (H)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
01/16/18       (H)       SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED                                                                          
01/16/18       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/16/18       (H)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
01/17/18       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
01/17/18       (H)       -- MEETING CANCELED --                                                                                 
01/19/18       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
01/19/18       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/19/18       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
01/24/18       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
01/24/18       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
01/24/18       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
01/26/18       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  13                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: NO ST. FUNDS FOR FEDERAL REGISTRY                                                                                  
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) JOSEPHSON                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
01/18/17       (H)       PREFILE RELEASED 1/9/17                                                                                
01/18/17       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/18/17       (H)       STA, JUD                                                                                               
02/18/17       (H)       STA AT 11:00 AM GRUENBERG 120                                                                          
02/18/17       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
02/18/17       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/23/17       (H)       STA AT 3:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/23/17       (H)       Scheduled but Not Heard                                                                                
03/28/17       (H)       STA AT 5:30 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
03/28/17       (H)       Moved CSHB 13(STA) Out of Committee                                                                    
03/28/17       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
04/03/17       (H)       STA RPT CS(STA) NT 4DP 1NR                                                                             
04/03/17       (H)       DP: WOOL, KNOPP, TUCK, KREISS-TOMKINS                                                                  
04/03/17       (H)       NR: BIRCH                                                                                              
04/14/17       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
04/14/17       (H)       Scheduled but Not Heard                                                                                
04/15/17       (H)       JUD AT 10:00 AM GRUENBERG 120                                                                          
04/15/17       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
04/15/17       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
01/26/18       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM GRUENBERG 120                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MEGAN HOLLAND, Staff                                                                                                            
Representative Andy Josephson                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Presented  HB 13  and offered  a PowerPoint                                                             
titled,  "HB   13:  Prohibiting  the  Expenditure   of  State  or                                                               
Municipal Assets  to Create a  Registry Based on  Race, Religion,                                                               
Ethnicity, or  National Origin," on  behalf of the  bill sponsor,                                                               
Representative Josephson                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HILARY MARTIN, Legislative Legal Counsel                                                                                        
Legislative Legal and Research Services                                                                                         
Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:   Answered questions during  discussion of HB                                                             
13.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:00:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR MATT  CLAMAN called the House  Judiciary Standing Committee                                                             
meeting  to order  at 1:00  p.m.   Representatives Claman,  Kopp,                                                               
Eastman,  LeDoux,  and   Millett  (alternate  for  Representative                                                               
Reinbold) were  present at  the call  to order.   Representatives                                                               
Kreiss-Tomkins and Stutes  (alternate for Representative Fansler)                                                               
arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
          HB 216-TRANSFERS FROM DIVIDEND FUND; CRIMES                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:01:09 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN announced that the  first order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 216, "An  Act relating to restitution; relating to                                                               
the office  of victims'  rights; relating  to transfers  from the                                                               
dividend   fund;  creating   the  restorative   justice  account;                                                               
relating to  appropriations from the restorative  justice account                                                               
for services for  and payments to crime  victims, operating costs                                                               
of the  Violent Crimes Compensation Board,  operation of domestic                                                               
violence and sexual assault programs,  mental health services and                                                               
substance  abuse  treatment   for  offenders,  and  incarceration                                                               
costs;  relating  to  delinquent  minors; and  providing  for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN  advised  that the  committee  would  continue  its                                                               
discussion on  Amendment 5, and  that his office  had distributed                                                               
the 1/23/18,  Legislative Legal and Research  Services memorandum                                                               
directed  to Representative  Eastman that  discussed some  of the                                                               
issues raised by Amendment 5.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:02:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN asked Representative Eastman  if he still desired to                                                               
proceed with Amendment 5.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN answered in the affirmative.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:02:22 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN   commented  that  after  reviewing   the  1/23/18,                                                               
Legislative Legal  and Research Services' memorandum  directed to                                                               
Representative   Eastman,  he   read   the   last  paragraph   to                                                               
essentially say  that if the  committee adopted Amendment  5, the                                                               
committee  would  go  down  a path  that  was  unpredictable  and                                                               
uncertain as to where it would  take the legislature.  He advised                                                               
that he would not be supporting Amendment 5.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:02:48 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  related that  he wished that  the members                                                               
had offered more discussion, but  that the language, "if they had                                                               
been eligible"  does not  appear to mean  what "we're  asking the                                                               
department  to do,  because we're  not asking  the department  to                                                               
determine whether  or not they  were, in fact, eligible."   There                                                               
is  a   process  "they   use,  and  they   assume  a   degree  of                                                               
eligibility."   Therefore,  he opined,  perhaps  what "we  really                                                               
want"  the department  to do  is to  assume that  "they had  been                                                               
eligible.    So,  they  are  rendered  ineligible  by  virtue  of                                                               
incarceration  or conviction  and  then there  is an  assumption,                                                               
which there  already is, that  they had  been eligible."   In the                                                               
event  these people  had been  eligible, "would  have changed  to                                                               
something like assuming they had  been eligible."  He opined that                                                               
that would  be more  in line  with what "we're  seeing as  far as                                                               
actual  practice, which  is what  I think  the committee  and the                                                               
legislature is  a practice that  we want  them to continue."   He                                                               
withdrew Amendment 5.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:04:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP  thanked the committee for  hearing this bill                                                               
and for its  support in advancing what he believes  is one of the                                                               
most  important  victims'  rights   pieces  of  legislation  this                                                               
session.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:05:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KREISS-TOMKINS  moved to report SSHB  216, Version                                                               
30-LS0572\T, Martin, 11/16/17, as  amended, out of committee with                                                               
individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN objected.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:05:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
A  roll call  vote  was taken.    Representatives Millett,  Kopp,                                                               
Kreiss-Tomkins,  LeDoux, Eastman,  and Claman  voted in  favor of                                                               
SSHB 216,  as amended.   Therefore, CSSSHB 216(JUD)  was reported                                                               
out of the House Judiciary Standing Committee by a vote of 6-0.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:06:25 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 1:06 p.m. to 1:14 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
            HB  13-NO ST. FUNDS FOR FEDERAL REGISTRY                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:14:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO.  13, "An Act prohibiting the  expenditure of state                                                               
or  municipal  assets to  create  a  registry  based on  race  or                                                               
religion."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:16:15 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KREISS-TOMKINS   moved  to  adopt   the  proposed                                                               
committee  substitute  (CS)  for   HB  13,  labeled  30-LS0147\R,                                                               
Martin,  1/23/18,  as  the  working document.    There  being  no                                                               
objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:16:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEGAN  HOLLAND,  Staff,  Representative  Andy  Josephson,  Alaska                                                               
State  Legislature, advised  that  CSHB 13,  Version  R, has  one                                                               
conforming  change  from  the  previous  version,  CSHB  13(STA),                                                               
Version O.   She  pointed to  slide 1  of the  PowerPoint titled,                                                               
Changes  from  Previous CS,"  and  explained  that last  year,  a                                                               
statute referred to in this  bill was repealed, and consequently,                                                               
the sponsor asked  the drafter to remove  that repealed statutory                                                               
reference.   Ms.  Holland advised  that the  drafter had  advised                                                               
that that  action did  not effect a  substantial change  upon the                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:17:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN  requested Ms.  Holland  to  briefly describe  this                                                               
legislation for the visiting exchange students in the audience.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:17:37 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND  referred  to  slide  3,  "What  HB  13  Does?"  and                                                               
paraphrased as follows:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     • Prevents  municipal and state governments  from using                                                                    
     or  authorizing use  of their  assets  to implement  or                                                                    
     help   implement  a   presidential  order,   a  federal                                                                    
     regulation  or law  that "creates  a registry  based on                                                                    
     race, religion, ethnicity, or national origin."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     • Proactively  prevents federal overreach  and protects                                                                    
     the privacy of Alaskans                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     • Potentially saves the state money.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND  described  that   this  bill  proactively  prevents                                                               
federal overreach  and protects the  privacy of Alaskans  and, it                                                               
could potentially  save the state money.   She described it  as a                                                               
proactive solution  to a  problem that  does not  currently exist                                                               
because such  registries have  existed in  the past.   It  is the                                                               
sponsor's  belief   that  these  rights  to   privacy  and  equal                                                               
protections under the law should be protected, she advised.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:18:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOLLAND turned  to slide 4, titled, "What HB  13 Doesn't Do:"                                                               
and paraphrased as follows:                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     • Affect state registries                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     • Affect institutions which  collect aggregated data in                                                                    
     regard  to  race,   religion,  ethnicity,  or  national                                                                    
     origin                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     • "Based on" are key interpretive words                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     • Impair the Department  of State's capability to track                                                                    
     terrorist organizations                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND  explained  that  the  sponsor's  office  determined                                                               
through Legislative Legal  and Research Services that  HB 13 does                                                               
not affect state registries.  She  pointed out that this bill has                                                               
very  few words,  but  the  words included  are  important.   For                                                               
example,  "based on"  and "registry"  are two  key terms  in this                                                               
legislation,  such that  the United  States Census  compiles data                                                               
based  on  ethnicity  of  United   States  citizens  every  year.                                                               
Although,  she pointed  out, it  is not  a "registry"  because it                                                               
takes  that  data  and  compiles  it  into  an  aggregated  form;                                                               
therefore, it is  not based on ethnicity due to  the fact that it                                                               
compiles this data  for the purposes of  counting the population,                                                               
age, children, and  so forth.  She explained that  HB 13 does not                                                               
affect those  institutions which collect aggregated  data in this                                                               
sense,  and  it does  not  impair  the  Department of  State  and                                                               
Homeland Security's capability  to track terrorist organizations,                                                               
as  it currently  tracks the  comings  and going  of people  from                                                               
every  country, every  national origin.   Therefore,  creating an                                                               
additional registry was determined to  be redundant by the United                                                               
States Department of State and Homeland Security.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:20:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND  turned to  slide  5,  titled, "Why  Introduce  This                                                               
Bill?" and paraphrased as follows:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     • Federal administration has not retracted statements                                                                      
     communicating intent to revive such a registry                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
        • Our state has proactively protected individual                                                                        
          rights before in the same statutory section,                                                                          
     specifically with regard to the right to bear firearms                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
      • Makes a statement that Alaska will not participate                                                                      
      in any forms of federal overreach, especially as it                                                                       
     concerns our liberties                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOLLAND advised  that this bill was  introduced after hearing                                                               
statements  from the  federal administration  implying there  was                                                               
significant  interest  in  reviving  such  a  registry  based  on                                                               
religion or national origin.   Therefore, the sponsor believes it                                                               
is  a pressing  issue for  the  state legislature  to respond  to                                                               
those  claims.    She  referred   to  [CSHB  13,  Version  R,  AS                                                               
44.99.040(a)]  Section 1,  and  related that  the  bill was  also                                                               
introduced because  this state enacted a  proactive measure, such                                                               
as this, previously  with regard to the individual  right to bear                                                               
firearms,  and it  also makes  a statement  that Alaska  will not                                                               
participate in  any forms of  federal overreach,  especially when                                                               
it concerns Alaskans' liberties.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:21:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  noted that Ms. Holland  had testified that                                                               
the bill  could potentially  save the state  money.   Except, she                                                               
argued, if  the federal  government decided  that Alaska  was not                                                               
cooperating,  it could  use  that  as an  incentive  or a  hammer                                                               
wherein Alaska loses money.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOLLAND  clarified that Representative LeDoux  was correct in                                                               
the event this bill was considered  to be a sanctuary policy, and                                                               
that,  according to  a recent  executive order,  Alaska would  no                                                               
longer  be   qualified  to  receive   certain  grants   from  the                                                               
Department  of  State  and  Homeland   Security.    However,  she                                                               
advised, a  fairly similar bill  recently passed in the  State of                                                               
Vermont  which   was  ruled  not   to  be  a   sanctuary  policy.                                                               
Therefore, whether  this bill would  save the state  funds hinges                                                               
upon whether  it is considered  a sanctuary policy,  she offered.                                                               
She advised that  she had spoken with the  National Conference of                                                               
State  Legislatures,  and  she reviewed  similar  legislation  to                                                               
determine  a yes  or  no answer  as  to whether  this  bill is  a                                                               
sanctuary policy  and, unfortunately,  she was unable  to receive                                                               
an answer.   She said  that the  clearest answer she  could offer                                                               
was that  it could be  argued in court  that this is  a sanctuary                                                               
policy, but she had seen  similar legislation that was determined                                                               
to not  be a sanctuary  policy.   Which meant, she  related, that                                                               
Alaska  would not  be  violating that  specific  statute and  the                                                               
state would not lose out on those federal funds.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:23:19 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LEDOUX  referred to  the fiscal notes  noting that                                                               
when  "we're" saying  a  bill could  potentially  save money,  or                                                               
possibly  lose money,  that it  is more  appropriate to  give the                                                               
bill  an indeterminate  fiscal note.   She  asked whether  anyone                                                               
from the administration was available to respond to her comment.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:23:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND advised  that  no one  from  the administration  was                                                               
currently online  to answer her  question and commented  that the                                                               
savings  from   this  bill   would  come   from  the   state  not                                                               
participating in a federally mandated registry.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:24:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked   whether  this  legislation  would                                                               
preclude  the state  from helping  the federal  government if  it                                                               
simply listed  everyone who came in  with non-citizenship status.                                                               
It would not be based on  race, religion, or national origin, but                                                               
rather  based  upon  citizenship  and  the  federal  government's                                                               
desire  to  keep track  of  people  coming  and going  from  this                                                               
country.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND  noted  that  Representative   LeDoux  made  a  fine                                                               
observation  in that  immigration  status is  not included  under                                                               
this list of registries of  which the state will not participate.                                                               
National  origin, she  offered, although  it is  closely tied  to                                                               
immigration status, is actually not  the same thing.  The federal                                                               
government  currently tracks  everyone who  comes in  and out  of                                                               
this country, it  has been improving that process  for years, and                                                               
this  bill would  not affect  the  federal government's  tracking                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:25:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STUTES asked  whether  Ms.  Holland was  familiar                                                               
with  any legislation  such as  this that  had been  determined a                                                               
sanctuary policy in any other states.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOLLAND responded  that she has a document  from the National                                                               
Conference  of   State  Legislatures  (NCSL)   listing  sanctuary                                                               
legislation in other states, and she paraphrased as follows:                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     At  least  36  states  and  the  District  of  Columbia                                                                    
     considered  legislation  in  2017  regarding  sanctuary                                                                    
     jurisdictions,   or  non-compliance   with  immigration                                                                    
     detainers.   Of these states, 33  states would prohibit                                                                    
     sanctuary  policies,  15  states and  the  District  of                                                                    
     Columbia  would  support  sanctuary  policies,  and  12                                                                    
     states have legislation on both sides of the issue.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  CLAMAN offered  that  this legislature  does  not want  to                                                               
predict the desires of the other states.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:27:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  STUTES asked  whether  Ms.  Holland was  familiar                                                               
with legislation in the other  states that had been determined to                                                               
have  sanctuary legislation,  and whether  their legislation  was                                                               
reflective of this proposed legislation.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.   HOLLAND  acknowledged   that   she  had   looked  at   that                                                               
legislation, but  she did not  have the list with  her currently.                                                               
She reiterated  that the  State of Vermont's  bill read  that the                                                               
state government would  not give personal individual  data to the                                                               
federal government in the event  the federal government requested                                                               
that data.   The states are  all different and she  would have to                                                               
get back to the committee, she said.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:29:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE STUTES surmised that Ms.  Holland was not clear as                                                               
to whether some  of the other legislation that  was determined to                                                               
be sanctuary-type legislation is reflective of HB 13.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOLLAND  agreed, and  she said that  she spoke  directly with                                                               
the National  Conference of State  Legislatures in an  attempt to                                                               
receive a  yes or no  answer to that  question.  She  received "a                                                               
maybe," and  if any anything,  it was "a  very soft no,"  and was                                                               
told that it would  not be able to offer the  answer until it had                                                               
been determined by the courts, which could not be predicted.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:30:03 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   EASTMAN   asked   about  the   specific   assets                                                               
referenced in  this legislation, and that  the title specifically                                                               
calls  out the  expenditure of  state  or municipal  assets.   He                                                               
offered  a scenario  of  a private  party  providing or  donating                                                               
assets,  and  quiered  as  to   whether  this  legislation  would                                                               
preclude those  assets being used for  any of these reasons.   He                                                               
related that in a previous bill  a private party donated money to                                                               
be used  for creating  signs, or perhaps  in this  case, creating                                                               
registries.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOLLAND  clarified that  this legislation  quite specifically                                                               
addresses state  and municipal assets,  and she assumed  that the                                                               
lack  of  addressing  private institutions  meant  it  would  not                                                               
affect those.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:31:11 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   LEDOUX  referenced   the   State  of   Vermont's                                                               
legislation  wherein it  was determined  that a  bill similar  to                                                               
this  legislation  would not  be  a  "sanctuary city  bill,"  and                                                               
requested  a  copy of  the  legislation,  statute, decision,  and                                                               
whether that decision had been appealed.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND advised  that  she  would be  happy  to provide  the                                                               
committee  with an  exact copy  of the  legislation, she  did not                                                               
believe the  State of Vermont's  decision had been  appealed, and                                                               
she  would provide  a copy  of the  court opinion.   She  offered                                                               
Representative LeDoux a summary ...                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  interjected that  the committee  would like  to see                                                               
the bill  itself because this  committee "likes the weeds"  and a                                                               
summary may not provide the  same analysis as putting the statute                                                               
side-by-side.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  asked to  review  the  summary while  Ms.                                                               
Holland was in the process of copying the requested materials.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
1:33:01 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The committee took a brief at-ease.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:34:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR CLAMAN  advised that  the summary  had been  distributed to                                                               
the  committee  and  asked   whether  Representative  LeDoux  had                                                               
follow-up questions after reviewing the summary.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX   related  that   she  had   no  follow-up                                                               
questions because she needed to see the actual legislation.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:35:10 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN noted  that there is another  bill in this                                                               
legislature that would require outreach  to members of "immigrant                                                               
communities,"  and those  from outside  of the  United States  to                                                               
educate them  on the  topic of "female  genital mutilation."   He                                                               
asked  whether this  bill makes  it harder  for that  outreach to                                                               
take place.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND answered  that this  bill prohibits  the use  of the                                                               
state's assets to  assist in creating a federal  registry.  While                                                               
the federal  government could still create  [a federal registry],                                                               
this legislation prohibits the  state's participation.  Secondly,                                                               
she  commented, she  could not  see  how this  bill would  affect                                                               
outreach to any particular community  because she did not believe                                                               
creating  an  individual  registry  "based on  those  things"  is                                                               
necessary.   She  opined that  there  are plenty  of examples  of                                                               
"people  doing such  things without  such a  registry" that  this                                                               
bill addresses.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:36:54 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  surmised that this legislation  read that                                                               
the state could continue to maintain its registries.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS.  HOLLAND  responded  that this  bill  specifically  addresses                                                               
federal mandates and not the state's registries.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  offered a scenario of  the state reaching                                                               
out  to  communities  who  may  be affected  by  some  of  "these                                                               
criteria."  The  state would continue to do the  things it wanted                                                               
to do  but would that be  the case if something  the state wanted                                                               
to do was also something  the federal government wanted the state                                                               
to do.   He asked Ms. Holland whether she  could see the dilemma,                                                               
and that his  reading of the language would be  that the state is                                                               
prohibited from  "doing that, not  because we don't want  to, but                                                               
because the federal  government has also joined us  in wanting us                                                               
to do it."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. HOLLAND deferred to Hilary Martin.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:38:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
HILARY MARTIN,  Attorney, Legislative Legal  Counsel, Legislative                                                               
Legal Services, Legislative Affairs  Agency, advised that she had                                                               
missed part of the question.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN advised  that  one of  the things  "we're                                                               
saying in  this bill  is that we're  not necessarily  taking away                                                               
from the state's ability" to have  its own registries, and in the                                                               
event the state  wanted to identify individuals and  reach out to                                                               
them,  or educate  them, based  on some  of these  criteria, that                                                               
that state  may be prohibited  from doing  that if it  turned out                                                               
that the  federal government also  wanted Alaska to do  the same,                                                               
and expressed that through an order, regulation, and so forth.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARTIN  pointed  out  that the  bill  discusses  aiding  the                                                               
federal government, whether it is an  order of the president or a                                                               
federal regulation  or law,  in creating  this type  of registry.                                                               
In the  event the state is  creating a registry based  on its own                                                               
needs or  is carrying out  the mandates of  a state law,  and the                                                               
fact that  it might  incidentally also  be something  the federal                                                               
government collects, it would probably  be okay because the state                                                               
was acting out  of state law.  The question  is whether the state                                                               
was  using state  resources to  implement a  federal mandate  for                                                               
something  required by  the state,  and that,  she advised,  is a                                                               
different situation.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
1:40:39 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX offered  a scenario  where the  state, for                                                               
one reason or another, decided  to create a registry, and whether                                                               
this  bill  would prohibit  turning  over  that registry  to  the                                                               
federal government.   She opined  that the bill would  not impair                                                               
the state's ability  to create a registry, but  it would prohibit                                                               
turning that registry over to the federal government.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARTIN responded that it  could prohibit turning the registry                                                               
over to the federal government.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  surmised  that it  could  prohibit  those                                                               
actions, but that it would  not necessarily prohibit turning over                                                               
the state's registry.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARTIN opined that it  would be a fact specific determination                                                               
as  to   what  exactly   is  going  on   ...  for   instance,  if                                                               
Representative LeDoux  was talking  about the  federal government                                                               
deciding  it would  create a  registry based  on the  religion of                                                               
every citizen, and it told  Alaska to give the federal government                                                               
this information, she believed "this bill would prohibit that."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:42:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  LEDOUX  offered a  scenario  wherein  a group  of                                                               
people from a certain area  experienced health problems, and [the                                                               
state] wanted to create a registry  and reach out to "some group"                                                               
to educate the  people on their health problems,  and the federal                                                               
government requested that registry.   She asked whether this bill                                                               
would  prohibit  the  state  from giving  that  registry  to  the                                                               
federal government.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARTIN opined  that  it  would depend  upon  the reason  the                                                               
federal  government requested  the registry.   In  the event  the                                                               
federal government  was using it  to create a registry,  then the                                                               
state would  be prohibited  from turning over  the registry.   In                                                               
the event  the federal government  wanted that registry  for some                                                               
other purpose, then it may not be prohibited, she explained.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:43:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   KOPP  clarified   that  this   bill  speaks   to                                                               
registries based on race, religion,  ethnicity, or nation origin.                                                               
In  the event  there  was  an outbreak  of  polio  in a  specific                                                               
location and  [the state] tried  to perform a quarantine  to make                                                               
sure everyone in  there at the time was vaccinated,  he could see                                                               
that  the  above  actions   deemed  justified  under  healthcare.                                                               
Except, this legislation relates to  much larger classes of race,                                                               
religion,  ethnicity,  or nation  origin.    He offered  that  in                                                               
reading the bill  on its plain view, it appears  there is nothing                                                               
that inhibits the  state from doing what it wants  to do, it just                                                               
may or may  not be able to  receive aid or help  from the federal                                                               
government  in  "doing it"  if  the  federal government  is  also                                                               
interested  in  the   same  thing  in  one   of  these  protected                                                               
categories.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MARTIN advised  that she  believed  Representative Kopp  was                                                               
correct.   The  question  is whether  the  federal government  is                                                               
using  the  information  to  create a  registry  based  on  race,                                                               
religion, ethnicity,  or national  origin, which  would determine                                                               
whether  the state  could use  its assets  to assist  the federal                                                               
government.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:45:04 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  EASTMAN  said he  could  think  of two  types  of                                                               
scenarios  where  the federal  government  might  be involved  in                                                               
health issues  relating to items  on this  list and noted  that a                                                               
lot of money  is spent on health research  to specific categories                                                               
of people based  on "some of these list items,  in fact."  Health                                                               
issues are often  traced to genetic issues dealing  with race and                                                               
ethnicity,  and   that  different  communities   and  ethnicities                                                               
practice different  habits that impacts health,  which may impact                                                               
public health.   He referred to  the manner in which  the bill is                                                               
written,  commenting that  "we're spending  a lot  of weight"  on                                                               
what "based on"  means.  He asked exactly what  "based on" means,                                                               
how it will  be interpreted by the courts, and  whether there are                                                               
other examples as to how that has been used.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARTIN  answered that she  does not have "any  great specific                                                               
answer" about  the court interpreting something  like "based on."                                                               
She  explained that  a state  agency  would be  asked to  provide                                                               
information  to the  federal government,  and [the  agency] would                                                               
make  a  determination  as  to  whether  that  information  would                                                               
provide  information   to  create  a  registry   based  on  race,                                                               
religion, ethnicity, and national origin,  and a court would then                                                               
decide  whether  the   agency's  interpretation  was  reasonable.                                                               
Certainly,  she offered,  in the  event the  committee wanted  to                                                               
clarify the bill, it is within  the committee's power to make the                                                               
language clearer.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
1:47:08 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOPP   referred  to  [CSHB  13,   Section  1.  AS                                                               
44.99.040(a)(3), page 1,  line 14, and page 2, line  1] and asked                                                               
whether the language would be clarified if it reads as follows:                                                                 
                                                                                                                              
          (3) create a registry based solely on race,                                                                       
     religion, ethnicity, or national origin.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOPP  asked whether  "solely" would  more narrowly                                                               
define it from a legal definition.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARTIN responded  that it would certainly  narrow the reading                                                               
if the  committee so chose,  but it  is only registries  that are                                                               
solely based on these things  and not something that also happens                                                               
to include this information.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
1:48:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE EASTMAN  noted that if the  legislature prohibited                                                               
the creation  of a registry  based on race,  religion, ethnicity,                                                               
or national  origin, with the  operative language being  "or," an                                                               
easy  way  to  get  around  this limitation  would  simply  be  a                                                               
registry that included  other information along side  each of the                                                               
above.   Even if, he  offered, it was  a registry based  on race,                                                               
religion, ethnicity,  and national  origin, it would  obviate the                                                               
restriction on  any one  of these items  individually.   He noted                                                               
that by simply adding a  bit more information into this registry,                                                               
the committee could get around the intended limitation.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARTIN responded that if this  is a matter of drafting, while                                                               
"and" would  mean both or  all of them,  "or" does not  just mean                                                               
one, such  that "or" could often  be "race or religion  or both."                                                               
She reiterated that it is  within the committee's power to change                                                               
the language.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[HB 13 was held over.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
1:51:28 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 1:51 p.m.                                                                 

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB216 Additional Document-Leg Legal Memo on Amendment #5 (T.3) 1.26.18.pdf HJUD 1/26/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 216
HB216 Amendments #1-5.pdf HJUD 1/24/2018 1:00:00 PM
HJUD 1/26/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 216
HB216 Amendments #1-5 HJUD Final Votes 1.26.18.pdf HJUD 1/26/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 216
HB013 ver R 1.26.18.pdf HJUD 1/26/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 13
HB013 Sponsor Statement 1.26.18.pdf HJUD 1/26/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 13
HB013 Supporting Document-Research Document 1.26.18.pdf HJUD 1/26/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 13
HB013 PowerPoint Presentation 1.26.18.pdf HJUD 1/26/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 13
HB013 Fiscal Note GOV-OMB 1.26.18.pdf HJUD 1/26/2018 1:00:00 PM
HB 13