Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 120

03/18/2005 01:00 PM JUDICIARY


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ HJR 7 CONST AM: SEC. OF STATE REFERENCES TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSHJR 7(JUD) Out of Committee
+= HB 131 ACCESS DEVICE & I.D. DOCUMENT CRIMES TELECONFERENCED
Moved Out of Committee
+= HB 187 AMERADA HESS INCOME; CAPITAL INCOME ACCT. TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+= HB 188 STATE OF AK CAPITAL CORP.; BONDS TELECONFERENCED
Scheduled But Not Heard
+= HB 148 TRAFFICKING OF PERSONS TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
+= HB 101 SEX TRAFFICKING AND TOURISM TELECONFERENCED
Heard & Held
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                             
                         March 18, 2005                                                                                         
                           1:11 p.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Lesil McGuire, Chair                                                                                             
Representative Tom Anderson                                                                                                     
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
Representative Nancy Dahlstrom                                                                                                  
Representative Pete Kott                                                                                                        
Representative Les Gara                                                                                                         
Representative Max Gruenberg                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 131                                                                                                              
"An Act  increasing the  criminal classification  of theft  of an                                                               
access   device   and   of  obtaining   an   access   device   or                                                               
identification  documents  by  fraudulent means;  increasing  the                                                               
criminal classification  for certain  cases of fraudulent  use of                                                               
an access device; and providing for an effective date."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 131 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 7                                                                                                    
Proposing amendments to  the Constitution of the  State of Alaska                                                               
to  correct obsolete  references to  the office  of secretary  of                                                               
state  by substituting  references  to the  office of  lieutenant                                                               
governor.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHJR 7(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 148                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to trafficking of persons."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 101                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to sex trafficking and tourism."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 187                                                                                                              
"An  Act establishing  the Alaska  capital income  account within                                                               
the  Alaska  permanent  fund;  relating   to  deposits  into  the                                                               
account;  relating to  certain  transfers  regarding the  Amerada                                                               
Hess settlement to offset the  effects of inflation on the Alaska                                                               
permanent fund; and providing for an effective date."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 188                                                                                                              
"An  Act establishing  the State  of Alaska  Capital Corporation;                                                               
authorizing the issuance of bonds  by the State of Alaska Capital                                                               
Corporation  to finance  capital improvements  in the  state; and                                                               
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 131                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: ACCESS DEVICE & I.D. DOCUMENT CRIMES                                                                               
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) STOLTZE                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
02/09/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/09/05       (H)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
02/23/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
02/23/05       (H)       Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                                
03/02/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/02/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/02/05       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/18/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HJR  7                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: CONST AM: SEC. OF STATE REFERENCES                                                                                 
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) ANDERSON                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
01/21/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/21/05       (H)       STA, JUD, FIN                                                                                          
03/03/05       (H)       STA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                             
03/03/05       (H)       Moved Out of Committee                                                                                 
03/03/05       (H)       MINUTE(STA)                                                                                            
03/04/05       (H)       STA RPT 4DP                                                                                            
03/04/05       (H)       DP: GARDNER, GATTO, ELKINS, SEATON                                                                     
03/18/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 148                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: TRAFFICKING OF PERSONS                                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KERTTULA                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
02/14/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
02/14/05       (H)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
03/07/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/07/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/07/05       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/18/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 101                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: SEX TRAFFICKING AND TOURISM                                                                                        
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) CROFT                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
01/21/05       (H)       READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                        
01/21/05       (H)       JUD, FIN                                                                                               
03/07/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
03/07/05       (H)       Heard & Held                                                                                           
03/07/05       (H)       MINUTE(JUD)                                                                                            
03/18/05       (H)       JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
JOHN B. SKIDMORE, Assistant District Attorney                                                                                   
Third Judicial District (Anchorage)                                                                                             
Department of Law (DOL)                                                                                                         
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  During discussion of HB 131, responded to                                                                  
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
VANESSA TONDINI, Staff                                                                                                          
to Representative Lesil McGuire                                                                                                 
House Judiciary Standing Committee                                                                                              
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  During discussion of HJR 7, provided a                                                                     
comment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BETH KERTTULA                                                                                                    
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 148.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ANDREA DOLL                                                                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided comments during discussion of HB                                                                  
148 and HB 101, and urged passage of both bills.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SARALYN TABACHNICK, Executive Director                                                                                          
Aiding Women in Abuse and Rape Emergencies (AWARE Inc.)                                                                         
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION  STATEMENT:   During discussion  of HB  148 and  HB 101,                                                               
spoke in support of legislation  criminalizing the trafficking of                                                               
persons.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 101.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  LESIL   McGUIRE  called   the  House   Judiciary  Standing                                                             
Committee  meeting  to  order at  1:11:10  PM.    Representatives                                                             
McGuire, Anderson, Coghill, Kott,  Dahlstrom, Gara, and Gruenberg                                                               
were present at the call to order.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HB 131 - ACCESS DEVICE & I.D. DOCUMENT CRIMES                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
1:12:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  announced that the  first order of  business would                                                               
be  HOUSE  BILL   NO.  131,  "An  Act   increasing  the  criminal                                                               
classification of theft  of an access device and  of obtaining an                                                               
access device  or identification  documents by  fraudulent means;                                                               
increasing  the  criminal  classification for  certain  cases  of                                                               
fraudulent  use  of  an  access  device;  and  providing  for  an                                                               
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:12:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  B. SKIDMORE,  Assistant District  Attorney, Third  Judicial                                                               
District (Anchorage),  Department of  Law (DOL), relayed  that he                                                               
was available to answer questions regarding HB 131.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said his concern  is that the threshold of                                                               
$50 is very low over which  to become a felon, and suggested that                                                               
maybe the  focus should  be on the  criminal intention  of taking                                                               
someone's  identity   rather  than  on  the   specific  value  of                                                               
merchandise stolen;  therefore, even if  the a person  only stole                                                               
$10 worth  of merchandise,  the felony  penalty would  be applied                                                               
because of  the seriousness  of identity theft.   He  offered his                                                               
belief  that  circumstances  involving  a  family  member  taking                                                               
checks  or credit  cards would  be a  civil crime  or a  crime of                                                               
passion, and  said he  questions whether  having a  $50 threshold                                                               
would  be so  arbitrary as  to  runs afoul  of the  law [in  some                                                               
manner].                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. SKIDMORE said  he has no problem with a  threshold lower than                                                               
$50.    On the  question  of  why it  would  be  okay to  have  a                                                               
threshold  as low  as  $50,  he pointed  out  that  the crime  of                                                               
forgery in the  second degree - AS 11.44.505 -  has no threshold,                                                               
so even if a  check is forged for only $5, it  still results in a                                                               
felony  charge;   he  noted  that   other  states   have  varying                                                               
thresholds, and sometimes  no threshold, for making  the theft of                                                               
an access device a felony.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SKIDMORE   said  he  has  no   concerns  regarding  familial                                                               
situations  involving  credit  cards,   because  if  both  family                                                               
members have  their names  on the credit  card, then  both family                                                               
members  are  entitled to  use  it  -  and  the same  applies  in                                                               
situations involving checking  accounts - and if  only one family                                                               
member's name  is on  the credit card  and another  family member                                                               
uses it,  then it becomes  a civil  matter and the  prosecutor is                                                               
unlikely to  accept such a case  because it will be  hard to meet                                                               
the burden  of proof  beyond a reasonable  doubt that  one family                                                               
member  intended to  defraud  another family  member.   The  bill                                                               
stipulates that the intent is  to defraud, and the prosecutor has                                                               
the discretion  to screen out  cases in which family  members are                                                               
using  one another's  credit cards.   He  added that  although he                                                               
cannot guarantee that  the prosecution would never  pursue such a                                                               
case, it is unlikely absent  extenuating circumstances wherein it                                                               
can  be  proven  that  clearly, one  family  member  didn't  have                                                               
permission  to use  the other  family member's  credit card.   He                                                               
then remarked that property offenses  are never considered crimes                                                               
of passion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL indicated  that  Mr. Skidmore's  comments                                                               
were helpful.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
1:20:02 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked what  the difference in intent would                                                               
be, for  the purpose of a  lawsuit, if the proposed  threshold of                                                               
$50  is kept  in the  bill.   Must the  value of  the merchandise                                                               
stolen be $50 or more before a prosecution can occur?                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. SKIDMORE said the current  threshold is arbitrary and doesn't                                                               
affect intent at  all; via the language currently in  HB 131, the                                                               
legislature is deciding whether the use  of an access device is a                                                               
misdemeanor or a felony, so even  if the value of the merchandise                                                               
stolen is under the currently  proposed threshold of $50, a crime                                                               
has  still been  committed.   He  opined that  the  bill will  be                                                               
helpful in  situations wherein  someone takes  another's identity                                                               
by  stealing identification  cards and  access devices,  and that                                                               
such  conduct  constitutes a  significant  problem  that must  be                                                               
addressed  because  of  the  potential   to  adversely  affect  a                                                               
victim's credit history and, hence, his/her life.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA indicated that  perhaps the $50 threshold for                                                               
using a  stolen credit card  is acceptable to  him, but he  has a                                                               
concern about  Sections 1 and 4  because they appear to  say that                                                               
just  stealing  someone's  access   device  or  obtaining  it  by                                                               
fraudulent means,  regardless of  whether it  is ever  used, will                                                               
result in  a felony charge.   Using  a hypothetical example  of a                                                               
pickpocket who  steals someone's wallet  and keeps the  money but                                                               
throws away the  credit card, he asked whether  that person could                                                               
be charged with  a felony, or whether the  prosecution would have                                                               
the discretion to charge the pickpocket with a lesser crime.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SKIDMORE  offered  his  belief that  that  person  could  be                                                               
charged  with a  felony  because  the theft  of  the credit  card                                                               
potentially exposes  the victim to significant  financial damage;                                                               
however, the hypothetical pickpocket might  not be charged with a                                                               
felony  if  he/she   threw  away  the  credit   card,  since  the                                                               
prosecution  might not  be able  to show  an intent  to [use  the                                                               
credit card].   He noted that  he hasn't yet seen  anyone such as                                                               
the  hypothetical pickpocket  convicted of  a felony  for his/her                                                               
first  offense, adding  that that  is  function of  prosecutorial                                                               
discretion.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG mentioned that he  might have had a case                                                               
"like that."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA said it seems that  Section 1 would make it a                                                               
felony even  if the  person threw away  the credit  card, because                                                               
he/she still  stole the credit  card, and that Section  4 appears                                                               
to  make it  a felony  because  stealing a  credit card,  whether                                                               
intentional or not,  could be looked upon as  obtaining an access                                                               
device by  fraudulent means.  He  said he is agreeable  to having                                                               
it be  a felony when  someone steals a  credit card and  uses it,                                                               
but would  not want  just the  taking of  a credit  card to  be a                                                               
felony.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
1:29:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  noted  that  AS  11.46.100,  which  is                                                               
referenced in Section 1, says in part:                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 11.46.100.  Theft defined.                                                                                            
     A person commits theft if                                                                                                  
          (1) with intent to deprive another of property or                                                                     
     to  appropriate property  of another  to  oneself or  a                                                                    
     third  person,  the  person  obtains  the  property  of                                                                    
     another;                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  offered his belief that  by referencing                                                               
AS 11.46.100, Section 1 would make  just stealing a credit card a                                                               
felony.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR.  SKIDMORE  concurred,  but  added that  with  regard  to  the                                                               
question of whether taking a credit  card but not using it should                                                               
be  a felony,  he suggested  that the  committee should  consider                                                               
situations  in which  someone is  arrested and  is found  to have                                                               
several credit cards  in his/her possession.   If mere possession                                                               
of someone else's  credit card doesn't constitute  a felony, then                                                               
prosecutors  will  have to  wait  until  the person  is  actually                                                               
caught  using a  stolen  credit card  before  they can  prosecute                                                               
him/her with a  felony; he noted, however, that  just because one                                                               
could be  charged with a  felony, the prosecution might  not feel                                                               
that a  particular person should be  charged with a felony.   If,                                                               
on the other hand, a person  with past convictions is caught with                                                               
a  stolen  credit card  in  his/her  possession, it  wouldn't  be                                                               
appropriate  to  only  be  able  to charge  that  person  with  a                                                               
misdemeanor, he opined,  and characterized HB 131 as  a tool that                                                               
the prosecution  can use when  dealing with people who  truly are                                                               
trying to commit identity theft.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  noted  that AS  11.46.990(8)  says  in                                                               
part:                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          (8) "deprive" or "deprive another of property"                                                                        
     means to                                                                                                                   
          (A) withhold property of another or cause                                                                             
     property  of another  to be  withheld from  that person                                                                    
     permanently or for  so extended a period  or under such                                                                    
     circumstances that  the major  portion of  its economic                                                                    
     value or benefit is lost to that person;                                                                                   
          (B) dispose of the property in such a manner or                                                                       
     under such  circumstances as to  make it  unlikely that                                                                    
     the owner will recover the property;                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG   offered   his   belief   that   this                                                               
definition,  coupled  with Section  1  of  the bill,  would  make                                                               
stealing someone's credit card and throwing it away a felony.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE, after  ascertaining that  no one  else wished  to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on HB 131.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  opined that  HB  131  is a  good  bill                                                               
because a  credit card is  basically "a  license to charge  up to                                                               
the limit."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
1:34:41 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  moved to report  HB 131 out  of committee                                                               
with  individual  recommendations  and  the  accompanying  fiscal                                                               
notes.   There being no objection,  HB 131 was reported  from the                                                               
House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
HJR 7 - CONST AM: SEC. OF STATE REFERENCES                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE announced that the  next order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE  JOINT  RESOLUTION  NO.  7,  Proposing  amendments  to  the                                                               
Constitution  of   the  State  of  Alaska   to  correct  obsolete                                                               
references to  the office of  secretary of state  by substituting                                                               
references to the office of lieutenant governor.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:35:17 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON, speaking as  the sponsor, introduced HJR                                                               
7 by paraphrasing from a  document titled, "OPENING STATEMENTS ON                                                               
HJR 7", which read [original punctuation provided]:                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     In the Congressional Act of  July 24, 1897, federal law                                                                    
     provided  for the  position of  "surveyor general"  for                                                                    
     Alaska  --  a person  appointed  by  the president  and                                                                    
     subject to  US Senate confirmation  -- and, by  the Act                                                                    
     of  June  6,  1900,  creating  Alaska  as  a  District,                                                                    
     assigned   to  the   other  duties   of  that   officer                                                                    
     additional  duties as  "secretary of  the district"  ex                                                                    
     officio.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The Congressional  Act of March 3,  1925, abolished the                                                                    
     surveyor general position  but established the position                                                                    
     as Secretary  of the Territory.   That statute required                                                                    
     that  the  Secretary of  the  Territory  be a  resident                                                                    
     "within the territory for  which ...appointed" and hold                                                                    
     office for a fixed term of four years.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The  secretary was  to execute  the powers  and perform                                                                    
     the  duties  of  the territorial  governor  during  the                                                                    
     latter's  vacancy or  absence  -- in  other words,  the                                                                    
     secretary would serve as "Acting Governor."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Basically,  however,  the   secretary  was  charged  to                                                                    
     "preserve and  record all the laws  and proceedings" of                                                                    
     the  legislature   and  the  governor,   transmit  laws                                                                    
     adopted  by  the   territorial  legislature  and  other                                                                    
     relevant  documents to  the  Congress  for review,  and                                                                    
     perform other specified duties.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     The Secretary  of Alaska was,  until superseded  by the                                                                    
     Secretary  of State  under  the  state constitution  in                                                                    
     January  1959, a  federal  officer,  but the  officer's                                                                  
     role  in the  affairs of  the territory  was clearly  a                                                                    
     model for the  Secretary of State's role  under the new                                                                    
     state constitution.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     In  1970 the  legislature  proposed and  the voters  of                                                                    
     Alaska  approved a  series of  amendments to  the State                                                                    
     constitution  that changed  the name  of the  office of                                                                    
     "Secretary  of  State"  to the  office  of  "Lieutenant                                                                    
     Governor".                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     At that time, the drafting  attorneys did not catch all                                                                    
     of the references to Secretary of State".                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     HJR  7  attempts  to  correct  the  two  references  to                                                                    
     "Secretary of  State" in  the Alaska  constitution that                                                                    
     are left.  The proposed  amendments, if approved by the                                                                    
     Legislature, would  be placed before the  voters in the                                                                    
     next General Election.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON   characterized  HJR   7  as   a  simple                                                               
technical  revision,  and  relayed  that  Legislative  Legal  and                                                               
Research Services has  requested this change to  the Alaska State                                                               
Constitution to alleviate  any ambiguity that might  be caused by                                                               
the two remaining  references to "secretary of state."   He urged                                                               
passage of [HJR 7].                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:37:50 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE, after  ascertaining that  no one  else wished  to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on HJR 7.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT referred  to  language on  page  2, line  1,                                                               
which says, "He", and said this  seems to suggest that only males                                                               
can be head  of departments.  He suggested that  they change "He"                                                               
to "They".                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:39:16 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that language  on page 1, line 10,                                                               
also uses  "he".  He  suggested that HJR  7 be amended  such that                                                               
all  references to  gender in  the Alaska  State Constitution  be                                                               
made gender neutral.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT posited  that such  a change  might engender                                                               
greater voter turnout.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON agreed to such a change.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
VANESSA  TONDINI, Staff  to Representative  Lesil McGuire,  House                                                               
Judiciary Standing  Committee, Alaska State  Legislature, pointed                                                               
out,  however,  that  such  a change  is  not  necessary  because                                                               
Article XII,  Section 10, of  the Alaska State  Constitution says                                                               
in part:   "Personal pronouns used in this  constitution shall be                                                               
construed as including either sex."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON, nonetheless,  recommended that  "he" be                                                               
changed to "they" in Sections 1 and 2 of HJR 7.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KOTT said he would prefer that change.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
1:41:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KOTT  made a  motion  to  adopt Amendment  1,  to                                                               
change page  1, line 10,  such that it  says, "while they  were a                                                               
member, and to change page 2, line 1, such that it says, "They".                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   GRUENBERG  opined,   however,  that   conforming                                                               
changes should be made throughout the constitutions.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE  asked  whether   there  were  any  objections  to                                                               
Amendment 1.  There being none, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:42:35 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON  moved to report  HJR 7, as  amended, out                                                               
of   committee   with    individual   recommendations   and   the                                                               
accompanying  fiscal  note.   There  being  no  objection,  CSHJR                                                               
7(JUD) was reported from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 148 - TRAFFICKING OF PERSONS                                                                                               
HB 101 - SEX TRAFFICKING AND TOURISM                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  announced that the  final order of  business would                                                               
be a hearing on two bills:   HOUSE BILL NO. 148, "An Act relating                                                               
to  trafficking of  persons."; and  HOUSE BILL  NO. 101,  "An Act                                                               
relating to sex trafficking and tourism."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
1:43:12 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BETH  KERTTULA, Alaska State  Legislature, sponsor                                                               
of HB 148, noted that at  the bills' last hearing, some questions                                                               
were posed  that she'd  like to  respond to at  this time.   With                                                               
regard to the  question of why [the Department  of Law's proposed                                                               
change] includes  language about  coming to  the state,  she said                                                               
that  the  Department  of Law  (DOL)  recommended  such  language                                                               
because "it's  about the easiest way  to distinguish trafficking,                                                               
or  the potential  crime,  from the  already  existing crimes  of                                                               
promoting prostitution and coercion."   She pointed out, however,                                                               
that  such  language could  result  in  situations being  treated                                                               
differently  depending on  whether  the persons  were brought  in                                                               
from another  country or state,  or whether they were  brought in                                                               
to a community from another area of Alaska.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA suggested  that this  issue be  one that                                                               
the committee address, and relayed  that the groups who deal with                                                               
this crime  are divided on this  issue.  Some groups  support the                                                               
idea  that  trafficking   naturally  includes  transporting,  she                                                               
noted, but  suggested that such  groups are not  considering "the                                                               
problem  we face  here  in Alaska,"  where a  woman  from Eek  or                                                               
Egegik  could be  in  just about  as much  trouble,  if she  were                                                               
picked up  and brought out of  the village, as a  Ukrainian woman                                                               
would be - she wouldn't have  a support system and wouldn't speak                                                               
the language  and might be  frightened of authority figures.   So                                                               
although the  DOL's suggested change  will address one  issue, it                                                               
might not be the most  appropriate given the potential situations                                                               
that could occur in Alaska, she concluded.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
1:46:38 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ANDREA  DOLL  explained  that  she   has  just  returned  from  a                                                               
presentation on [human] trafficking given  by the U.S. Agency for                                                               
International Development at the  United Nations' headquarters in                                                               
New York.  She went on to say:                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     The U.S.  government has made trafficking  in persons a                                                                    
     high  priority  through   legislation,  a  presidential                                                                    
     directive,   and   an   anti-trafficking   presidential                                                                    
     initiative.   Trafficking  in  human  beings has  drawn                                                                    
     international  attention, and  we know  that there  are                                                                    
     between   800,000   and  900,000   persons   trafficked                                                                    
     annually  between international  borders.   This figure                                                                    
     does not  include numbers that are  trafficked within a                                                                    
     country.   There  is  evidence that  Alaska  is both  a                                                                    
     transit corridor  as well  as a destination.   It  is a                                                                    
     criminal justice problem; there  is a critical need for                                                                    
     state,   sub-regional,   regional,  and   international                                                                    
     agreements to address this problem.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Alaska will make its  contribution by criminalizing the                                                                    
     trafficking  of persons  by making  it an  unclassified                                                                    
     felony.   Traffickers  will then  be prosecuted  ... at                                                                    
     the  state [level]  as well  as at  the federal  level.                                                                    
     There'll  be   [a]  no  tolerance  attitude   for  this                                                                    
     criminal activity  within our state borders.   Very few                                                                    
     people in the  United States are aware  of the problem,                                                                    
     much  less  it's  size  and  toll.    Those  women  and                                                                    
     children who  have been  rescued from  servitude suffer                                                                    
     from  posttraumatic stress  disorder similar  to combat                                                                    
     victims and  victims of state  organized torture.   The                                                                    
     practice  of trafficking  spawns health  problems, high                                                                    
     HIV/AIDS    [human   immunodeficiency    virus/acquired                                                                    
     immunodeficiency   syndrome],  [and]   high  rates   of                                                                    
     Hepatitis B  [and] cervical  cancer -  it is  a fertile                                                                    
     ground for criminal activity.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
1:49:24 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. DOLL continued:                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     It is  a calamity.  Yet  the United States is  a prized                                                                    
     destination  because it  offers  a market.   By  taking                                                                    
     action on House Bill 148  and House Bill 101, the state                                                                    
     of  Alaska will  create awareness  of the  problem, its                                                                    
     human  toll,  and  will  be   taking  needed  steps  to                                                                    
     implement  educational programs  [to] create  awareness                                                                    
     within the  business sector - particularly  the tourism                                                                    
      industry and internet providers that advertise mail                                                                       
     order brides.  I - indeed, the civilized world - urges                                                                     
     this body to pass House Bill 148 and House Bill 101.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked  how one becomes aware  of the issue                                                               
of human trafficking, particularly with regard to Alaska.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. DOLL  replied that she  can not  say how one  becomes totally                                                               
aware of  all the details, but  added that it is  very clear that                                                               
studies  have  been  done,  and relayed  that  although  she  can                                                               
provide  the committee  with data  on  individual countries,  she                                                               
doesn't have data regarding Alaska specifically.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
1:51:45 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SARALYN  TABACHNICK, Executive  Director, Aiding  Women in  Abuse                                                               
and Rape Emergencies (AWARE Inc.),  said she would be speaking in                                                               
support  of "this  legislation making  it a  crime to  traffic in                                                               
persons."   In recent  times, she relayed,  AWARE Inc.  staff can                                                               
recollect two instances  of providing services to  women who were                                                               
brought to Juneau, Alaska, and  forced to engage in forced labor,                                                               
sexual conduct, and/or involuntary  servitude.  She surmised that                                                               
if AWARE Inc. is serving two  such women, then there are probably                                                               
many  more women  in similar  situations whom  AWARE Inc.  is not                                                               
serving.   She relayed  that the women  were initially  told that                                                               
they would be provided with  jobs and economic opportunities, yet                                                               
once they  were here, the jobs  did not exist and  the women were                                                               
forced into "economic and sexual exploitation."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS.  TABACHNICK said  that the  experiences of  these women  were                                                               
horrific,  and the  difficulties  they experienced  in coming  to                                                               
AWARE Inc. for  help was similar to  the difficulties experienced                                                               
by mail order  brides, in that they were told  that they would be                                                               
incarcerated and  sent back to  their countries of  origin, where                                                               
they had been living in poverty  and/or abuse.  This is often the                                                               
message given  by perpetrators of  abuse, she noted,  adding that                                                               
AWARE Inc.  works comprehensively with abused  immigrant women in                                                               
these    situations;   therefore,    having   legislation    that                                                               
criminalizes the trafficking  of persons in Alaska  will serve to                                                               
protect  victims  and  perhaps  give them  the  courage  to  step                                                               
forward and ask for the  intervention, support, and advocacy they                                                               
deserve.   Within the U.S., she  noted, "we now have  the Victims                                                               
of Trafficking and  Violence Protection Act [of  2000]," and said                                                               
she is  hopeful the  Alaska State  Legislature will  pass similar                                                               
legislation this session.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  TABACHNICK, in  response to  questions,  relayed that  AWARE                                                               
Inc.  became  incorporated  in 1978;  that  AWARE  Inc.  provides                                                               
services to  victims of domestic  violence and sexual  assault in                                                               
Juneau  and northern  Southeast  Alaska,  services which  include                                                               
safe   shelter,  legal   advocacy,   information  and   referral,                                                               
outreach, transportation, counseling and  support in elder abuse,                                                               
child  abuse, domestic  violence and  sexual assault  situations,                                                               
and a  24-hour crises line;  that the aforementioned  women might                                                               
have originally  called AWARE Inc.  because they were  victims of                                                               
sexual  assault; and  that although  she  is unable  to speak  in                                                               
detail about  the aforementioned  women in particular  because of                                                               
confidentiality issues,  AWARE Inc. is working  with an immigrant                                                               
and refugee  organization in  Anchorage in  an effort  to provide                                                               
these women with the services they need.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
1:55:47 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE, after  ascertaining that  no one  else wished  to                                                               
testify, closed public testimony on HB 148 and HB 101.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ERIC  CROFT, Alaska State Legislature,  sponsor of                                                               
HB 101, mentioned  that others may wish to speak  on the bills at                                                               
a later time, and asked that public testimony be left open.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE said  she would  keep public  testimony open,  and                                                               
relayed  that   written  testimony  would  be   accepted  by  the                                                               
committee even after the bills move from committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
1:56:20 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  offered a comparison  of 101, 148,  and the                                                               
DOL's  proposed change.   Although  all three  items address  the                                                               
issue of  trafficking of  persons for  labor or  sexual services,                                                               
the latter portion of Section 1  of HB 101 - proposed 11.66.410 -                                                               
specifically  deals with  Alaskan  tour  companies providing  and                                                               
advertising  sex tourism  services for  people who  are traveling                                                               
out  of state  to other  countries.   Although it  is known  that                                                               
"this"  is a  huge, international  problem, it  is not  known how                                                               
many  companies advertise  such  services or  how they  advertise                                                               
such services.  He indicated that  there has been a major push by                                                               
many  groups,  agencies,  and individuals  to  deal  with  "this"                                                               
problem, but  Alaska doesn't  yet have anything  that makes  it a                                                               
crime to provide such services.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  offered her understanding that  there is precedent                                                               
for  putting a  law  in  place even  before  it  known whether  a                                                               
particular crime is being committed.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  opined  that  all 50  states  should  make                                                               
[providing  such services  illegal].   He  said  his intent  with                                                               
[proposed  AS 11.66.410]  is to  criminalize knowingly  providing                                                               
sex tourism services.  He  offered his belief that the difficulty                                                               
with the DOL's  proposed change, HB 148, and Section  1 of HB 101                                                               
revolves  around the  issue of  how  to deal  with situations  in                                                               
which  a person  is brought  into the  state for  the purpose  of                                                               
performing labor and/or sexual services.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG characterized  [proposed AS 11.66.410 of                                                               
HB  101] as  a stand  alone provision,  and referred  to page  2,                                                               
lines  21-22, which  says, "(2)  organizes,  arranges, sells,  or                                                               
advertises  tourism packages  or  activities  using and  offering                                                               
sexual  acts as  enticement for  tourism".   He said  his concern                                                               
with  such  language  is  that   it  might  apply  to  a  company                                                               
advertising a  tour to certain  counties in Nevada,  for example,                                                               
where  prostitution  is  legal,  thereby  interfering  with  that                                                               
company's right of free expression.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT opined  that Nevada  can do  what it  wants                                                               
with  regard  to legalized  prostitution,  but  since Alaska  has                                                               
decided to criminalize  prostitution, it can also  decide that it                                                               
doesn't want  travel services  being offered  for the  purpose of                                                               
hiring prostitutes anywhere  else.  He said he didn't  see such a                                                               
prohibition as interfering with the right of free expression.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG pointed  out, however, that advertising,                                                               
which is  referred to in  proposed AS 11.66.410, is  considered a                                                               
form of free expression.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  replied, "I  have  no  right to  advertise                                                               
criminal conduct  just because  it's communicative,  and assuming                                                               
you  can   ...  criminalize  the  underlying   conduct,  ...  the                                                               
advertising of it can be [criminalized], I believe."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  concurred,  but  noted  that  not  all                                                               
counties in  Nevada have legalized  prostitution, and  relayed an                                                               
example of  an establishment built  on skids that was  located at                                                               
the  junction  of  three  counties;  as  the  different  counties                                                               
changed  their  laws  regarding prostitution,  the  establishment                                                               
would change location just by moving its building.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  ANDERSON   offered  a  hypothetical   example  of                                                               
marijuana  being made  legal  in Alaska  and  companies in  other                                                               
states advertising  tours to  Alaska for  the purpose  of smoking                                                               
marijuana.  He suggested that  the advertisement of such would be                                                               
illegal.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG   pointed  out,  however,   that  under                                                               
Representative  Croft's argument,  since gambling  is illegal  in                                                               
Alaska but  not in Nevada,  the advertisement of tours  to Nevada                                                               
for the purpose of gambling could be criminalized.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE suggested  that  the bill  could  specify that  it                                                               
applies  if  the  location  the  advertisement  pertains  to  has                                                               
criminalized the  behavior; however, she added,  such specificity                                                               
could "take the teeth out" of the bill.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  noted  that   some  countries  might  make                                                               
prostitution illegal but then don't  enforce its laws.  Referring                                                               
to  HB  101, he  pointed  out  that  paragraphs  (1) and  (3)  of                                                               
proposed AS  11.66.410(a) reference proposed AS  11.66.400, which                                                               
he said  pertains to  "child" sexual  activity, and  posited that                                                               
such isn't legal anywhere.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  suggested, "Why  don't you just  tie it                                                               
back to that."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE  pondered  whether  the  standard  for  commercial                                                               
speech is "less" than it is for [individual speech].                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  remarked, "Commercial  speech is  less and,                                                               
certainly, there's almost none for illegal activities."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:06:29 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  offered his belief that  [a restriction                                                               
such as is currently in  proposed AS 11.66.410] could criminalize                                                               
the entire tour industry for just advertising tours to Nevada.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  said  that  perhaps  the  easiest  way  to                                                               
address  Representative  Gruenberg's  concern would  be  to  have                                                               
proposed AS 11.66.410(a)(2) reference AS 11.66.410.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE remarked that that might  be a place to start.  She                                                               
asked Representative Croft to continue with his testimony.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  said HB 101  prohibits commercial  sex acts                                                               
with  children under  the age  of 18  but does  not specify  that                                                               
transportation must  be an element.   He pointed out that  HB 148                                                               
uses   the   terms   "forced  labor",   "sexual   conduct",   and                                                               
"involuntary  servitude"; does  not  specify that  transportation                                                               
must be an  element; and applies to both minors  and adults.  The                                                               
DOL's  proposed change,  he  relayed, does  have  the element  of                                                               
transport and specifies  that either fraud or force is  used.  He                                                               
offered his  interpretation that the DOL's  proposed change could                                                               
apply  to  situations  wherein  someone  promises  a  prospective                                                               
employee that the weather is always nice in Alaska.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE said,  "It's a divisible issue  there," adding that                                                               
she sees what the DOL is  attempting to accomplish with regard to                                                               
getting at all of the types  of situations that could occur.  She                                                               
mentioned that she  has dealt with the  issues surrounding "adult                                                               
entertainment."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said he is  concerned that the terms used in                                                               
the DOL's  proposed change could  be overreaching,  and indicated                                                               
that he  is attempting, via HB  101, to deal with  sexual conduct                                                               
involving children.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:10 p.m. to 2:12 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:12:21 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL,  referring to the DOL's  proposed change,                                                               
said he  is wondering whether  the language  regarding fraudulent                                                               
representation would  apply to those who  misrepresent a business                                                               
opportunity, adding that  he wouldn't want such  people to escape                                                               
justice  just because  they didn't  use force  to get  someone to                                                               
come to Alaska.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  offered his belief that  the bill would                                                               
not apply  to a business opportunity  but would apply to  a labor                                                               
contract.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT   acknowledged  that  the  issues   of  sex                                                               
involving  children,  sexual  activities, and  forced  labor  are                                                               
complicated.  He said he wants  "the bill" to cover situations in                                                               
which persons  are brought into  the state for  commercial sexual                                                               
activities under  false pretenses  or via the  use of  force, and                                                               
situations  involving bringing  persons into  Alaska and  forcing                                                               
them to work for  low or no wages under some form  of threat.  He                                                               
suggested  that  a   third  issue  to  consider   is  whether  to                                                               
criminalize the transportation of persons  only if they are being                                                               
brought into Alaska.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  offered  his  belief  that  Representative                                                               
Kerttula is more  interested in "the transport  aspect," and said                                                               
he  believes that  transporting  people across  state lines  [has                                                               
been dealt  with via]  the "Mann  Act" [White-slave  Traffic Act]                                                               
and treats  people like  property.   Therefore, he  indicated, he                                                               
doesn't want  to limit the  bill such  that it only  applies when                                                               
people  are  transported  across  state lines;  the  location  is                                                               
irrelevant when  compared to the  behavior, and he doesn't  see a                                                               
substantial reason to  limit the bill in that  manner even though                                                               
it is often  the case that people are being  brought across state                                                               
lines for the aforementioned purposes.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  referred to the  bill she and  Representative Gara                                                               
introduced last  year regarding the  licensure of  adult oriented                                                               
establishments,  and  noted  that testimony  indicated  that  the                                                               
young  women performing  in such  establishments were  also given                                                               
fraudulent information about what  the jobs entailed.  Therefore,                                                               
it  doesn't matter  much to  her that  those young  women weren't                                                               
transported to  Alaska from  another country,  because it  is the                                                               
acts of coercion and fraud that are inappropriate.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:17:31 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  KERTTULA  said  one  of  the  hardest  issues  to                                                               
address  is  that  the  fundamental  description  of  trafficking                                                               
involves transportation.   Another  problem is that  the existing                                                               
crimes of coercion and prostitution  have elements similar to the                                                               
bills before the  committee, and so a  distinguishing factor must                                                               
be  used;  admittedly,  transport   is  one  such  distinguishing                                                               
factor, so there might be some  way of structuring that factor so                                                               
that it  pertains to transport  or travel itself, rather  than to                                                               
transporting or traveling into the state.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   McGUIRE   said   that  perhaps   they   should   consider                                                               
restructuring all  the statutes pertaining to  "this whole area,"                                                               
so  that situations  involving transportation  are addressed,  as                                                               
well  as situations  involving  the use  of  fraudulent means  to                                                               
recruit performers into a sex-oriented business.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG   noted  that   sometimes  hypothetical                                                               
examples are used  to illustrate the fallacy in  an argument, and                                                               
offered an example involving him telling  his son to clean up his                                                               
room  to illustrate  how the  term "recruiting,  by coercion,  to                                                               
engage in  forced labor" could  be misinterpreted by  some, since                                                               
HB 148, for example, doesn't  specify that sexual conduct must be                                                               
an element in order for the bill to apply.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  said that the term  "labor" was included                                                               
in  HB 148  because it  "is such  a huge  part of  trafficking" -                                                               
often people  are trafficked just  for the purpose  of performing                                                               
labor.  She  characterized HB 148 as being more  inclusive of the                                                               
types of things [she wants to address].                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE relayed  that because  of technical  difficulties,                                                               
Dennis Holway  and Floyd Smith,  who were standing by  to testify                                                               
via teleconference,  would be submitting written  testimony.  She                                                               
then  asked Representative  Kerttula whether  there would  be any                                                               
way to intertwine labor with some  of the other elements, so that                                                               
the bill wouldn't  apply to a situation  wherein someone promises                                                               
a  prospective employee  that  the weather  in  Alaska is  always                                                               
good.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA suggested that  the committee provide her                                                               
with questions  that she can ask  of the expert who  is scheduled                                                               
to  give a  presentation on  sex  trafficking on  April 1,  2005.                                                               
Additionally,  perhaps  HB 101  and  HB  148 could  be  addressed                                                               
separately, she said, characterizing the  issue of sex tourism as                                                               
an  easier  issue to  deal  with,  and  offered her  belief  that                                                               
Representative Croft  would be amenable  to working on  the bills                                                               
separately.   With regard to  Chair McGuire's question,  she said                                                               
that part of  problem is that if a container  car bringing people                                                               
into the state is discovered by  the authorities, it might not be                                                               
possible to prove that the  people were being transported for the                                                               
purpose of  performing sexual  acts but it  might be  possible to                                                               
prove they were being transported  for the purpose of engaging in                                                               
labor.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  relayed that  Representative Anderson  has pointed                                                               
out  that   HB  148  defines  "forced   labor"  and  "involuntary                                                               
servitude" fairly narrowly, and  she posited that this definition                                                               
should address  the concern  Representative Gruenberg  raised via                                                               
the hypothetical example involving his son.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA  concurred, adding that  perhaps portions                                                               
of HB  148 [such as  the definitions] could be  incorporated into                                                               
the DOL's proposed change.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:24:40 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG turned  attention to page 1,  line 7, of                                                               
HB 148, and noted that it uses the  phrase "will be".  He said he                                                               
would prefer for  the language to be changed such  that it covers                                                               
both "will  be" and "has been"  situations.  He then  opined that                                                               
the  bill shouldn't  just  cover people  being  brought into  the                                                               
state but  should also  cover those that  are being  moved around                                                               
the state as well those that are being taken out of the state.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE mentioned  that the  committee  could address  the                                                               
issue of sex  tourism as a separate concept, and  then could look                                                               
at creating an omnibus bill, or  at using what remains of the two                                                               
bills and  the DOL's proposed change  to create a vehicle,  or at                                                               
creating a  committee bill to  address the remaining  concerns on                                                               
this  issue.   She asked  the sponsors  and members  to give  the                                                               
issue more thought.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  offered his  belief that the  committee was                                                               
close to  resolving the  issue of sex  tourism, and  offered that                                                               
the committee could do as  Representative Gruenberg has suggested                                                               
and ensure that all three  paragraphs of proposed AS 11.66.410(a)                                                               
are linked directly  with the crime of child  prostitution.  This                                                               
would clarify  that he  wishes to prohibit  "sex tours  for child                                                               
prostitution purposes."  He agreed to  would work with staff on a                                                               
committee substitute (CS) for HB 101.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE suggested instead that  they simply alter HB 101 in                                                               
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:27:56 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE, referring  to  HB  101, made  a  motion to  adopt                                                               
Conceptual Amendment 1, to remove [proposed AS 11.66.400].                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG noted  that if  Conceptual Amendment  1                                                               
were adopted,  then language on  page 2,  lines 25 and  27, would                                                               
have  to be  altered as  well, since  they reference  proposed AS                                                               
11.66.400.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE concurred.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE  asked  whether   there  were  any  objections  to                                                               
Conceptual Amendment  1.  There being  none, Conceptual Amendment                                                               
1 was adopted.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
2:29:06 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE  suggested  that Amendment  2  should  redefine  a                                                               
commercial sex act.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  remarked that  exotic dancing  could be                                                               
considered a type of commercial sex act.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE  noted  that proposed  AS  11.66.400  had  defined                                                               
"commercial sex act"  as any sex act for which  anything of value                                                               
is given to or received by any person.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  asked whether "sex act"  is statutorily                                                               
defined.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE said it is not.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 2:30 p.m. to 2:31 p.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
2:31:52 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  McGUIRE  relayed  that Conceptual  Amendment  1  would  be                                                               
incorporated into  a forthcoming  CS; she  indicated that  the CS                                                               
will  also put  proposed  AS 11.66.410  "into  some semblance  of                                                               
order."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  opined  that   the  bill  should  also                                                               
address  sex  tourism  involving  adult   persons.    If  an  age                                                               
threshold is included in the bill,  it could be very difficult to                                                               
prosecute someone  who claims he/she  didn't know the  victim was                                                               
under 18.  In response to a  question, he said he would no longer                                                               
have  a concern  regarding the  right of  free expression  if the                                                               
advertisement  is tied  to an  illegal activity  by altering  all                                                               
three paragraphs of proposed AS 11.66.410(a).                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT referred  to proposed  AS 11.66.400,  which                                                               
had been deleted  via Conceptual Amendment 1, and  noted that the                                                               
behavior it prohibited involved engaging  in a commercial sex act                                                               
with  a person  under the  age of  18 or  with a  person who  was                                                               
forced, coerced, or fraudulently induced to engage in that act.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  opined that AS  11.66.410 should  incorporate that                                                               
concept.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG pointed  out, however,  that the  state                                                               
will have to  prove that the tour  operators/organizers knew that                                                               
the behavior their clients were engaging in was illegal.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT  suggested that  perhaps the  committee will                                                               
have to  define the  activity it is  criminalizing and  then also                                                               
make it  a crime to  travel in order  to engage in  that criminal                                                               
activity.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL noted  that  the  federal government  has                                                               
already made the distinction as  to what activity is illegal, and                                                               
suggested  that they  look at  any existing  federal language  on                                                               
this  issue.   He  opined that  forcing someone  to  engage in  a                                                               
commercial sex  activity is bad even  if the victim is  an adult,                                                               
and suggested that it constitutes a form of kidnapping.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:36:42 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG said he  supports "this," but added that                                                               
he is looking  at the practicality of  prosecution, and predicted                                                               
that  the minors  from  the  foreign countries  will  have to  be                                                               
brought into the U.S. to act as witnesses.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE  noted that  sometimes just having  a law  in place                                                               
can serve  as a deterrent, offering  her belief that the  goal is                                                               
to send the  message that Alaska is  not a good place  to "set up                                                               
shop."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG  pondered  whether  other  states  have                                                               
addressed this issue.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CROFT  said  he  would   bring  back  a  CS  that                                                               
addresses sex  tourism, adding that  he doesn't care  whether the                                                               
advertised destinations  have legalized  prostitution -  he wants                                                               
to make it illegal to advertise tours for that purpose.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR McGUIRE offered her belief  that the committee wants to see                                                               
a vehicle  that addresses the  trafficking of  people, regardless                                                               
of age,  and suggested  that perhaps there  could be  a different                                                               
penalty if the victim  is under the age of 18.   She also posited                                                               
that the  labor issue won't  be that  difficult to address.   She                                                               
expressed a preference for having  a bill that addresses movement                                                               
into Alaska, within Alaska, and out of Alaska.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
[HB 148 and HB 101 were held over.]                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:40:57 PM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was adjourned at 2:40.                                                                     

Document Name Date/Time Subjects