Legislature(1999 - 2000)

05/07/1999 02:20 PM JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                    May 7, 1999                                                                                                 
                     2:20 p.m.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Pete Kott, Chairman                                                                                              
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                                                                  
Representative Jeannette James                                                                                                  
Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                                   
Representative Eric Croft                                                                                                       
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 225                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to election campaigns and legislative ethics; and                                                              
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 225(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 74                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to hunting on the same day airborne."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HCSSB 74(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 219                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the rule against perpetuities, nonvested                                                                    
property interests, and powers of appointment; and providing for an                                                             
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 220                                                                                                              
"An Act relating to the amendment and revocation of spouses'                                                                    
community property agreements and community property trusts; and                                                                
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 11(JUD)                                                                                                  
"An Act relating to good time credits for prisoners serving                                                                     
sentences of imprisonment for certain murders."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
(* First public hearing)                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 225                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: CAMPAIGN FINANCE AND LEGISLATIVE ETHICS                                                                            
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) COWDERY, Kohring                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 5/05/99      1180     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 5/05/99      1180     (H)  JUDICIARY                                                                                           
 5/06/99               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 5/06/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 5/07/99      1247     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): KOHRING                                                                               
 5/07/99               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SB  74                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: SAME DAY AIRBORNE HUNTING                                                                                          
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) KELLY PETE                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/17/99       270     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/17/99       270     (S)  RES                                                                                                 
 2/24/99               (S)  RES AT  3:00 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                                                                  
 2/24/99               (S)  MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                              
 2/24/99               (S)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 2/25/99               (S)  RLS AT 11:30 AM FAHRENKAMP RM 203                                                                   
 2/25/99               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 2/25/99       363     (S)  RES RPT  6DP                                                                                        
 2/25/99       363     (S)  DP: HALFORD, TAYLOR, PARNELL, PETE                                                                  
                            KELLY                                                                                               
 2/25/99       363     (S)  MACKIE, GREEN                                                                                       
 2/25/99       363     (S)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (F&G)                                                                              
 3/04/99       407     (S)  RULES TO CALENDAR AND 1 OR 3/4/99                                                                   
 3/04/99       409     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 3/04/99       409     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                                                                      
                            CONSENT                                                                                             
 3/04/99       409     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  SB 74                                                                          
 3/04/99       410     (S)  PASSED Y14 N6                                                                                       
 3/04/99       410     (S)  ELLIS  NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                                                                    
 3/05/99       426     (S)  RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP                                                                        
 3/05/99       427     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 3/08/99       386     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 3/08/99       386     (H)  RESOURCES, JUDICIARY                                                                                
 3/17/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 3/17/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 3/17/99               (H)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 4/07/99               (H)  RES AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 124                                                                         
 4/07/99               (H)  MOVED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                              
 4/07/99               (H)  MINUTE(RES)                                                                                         
 4/08/99       688     (H)  RES RPT 6DP 1NR                                                                                     
 4/08/99       688     (H)  DP: OGAN, SANDERS, HARRIS, BARNES,                                                                  
 4/08/99       688     (H)  MORGAN, WHITAKER; NR: KAPSNER                                                                       
 4/08/99       688     (H)  SENATE ZERO FISCAL NOTE (F&G) 2/25/99                                                               
 4/08/99       688     (H)  REFERRED TO JUDICIARY                                                                               
 5/03/99               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
 5/03/99               (H)  HEARD AND HELD                                                                                      
 5/07/99               (H)  JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY                                                                                                     
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 204                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-3879                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of HB 225.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE REGELIN, Director                                                                                                         
Division of Wildlife Conservation                                                                                               
Department of Fish and Game                                                                                                     
P.O. Box 25526                                                                                                                  
Juneau, Alaska 99802-5526                                                                                                       
Telephone:  (907) 465-4190                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding SB 74.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY                                                                                                              
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Capitol Building, Room 510                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-2327                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT: Sponsor of SB 74.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-60, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN PETE KOTT called the House Judiciary Standing Committee                                                                
meeting to order at 2:20 p.m.  Members present at the call to order                                                             
were Representatives Kott, Green, Rokeberg, James, Croft and                                                                    
Kerttula.  Representative Murkowski arrived at 2:27 p.m.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 225 - CAMPAIGN FINANCE AND LEGISLATIVE ETHICS                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the first order of business is HB 225, "An                                                              
Act relating to election campaigns and legislative ethics; and                                                                  
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0073                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a motion to adopt the proposed committee                                                              
substitute for HB 225, Version 1-LS0931\G, Cramer, 5/7/99.  There                                                               
being no objection, it was so adopted.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0128                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT referred to page 5, subsection (H), and noted                                                              
the phrase - "...however, a legislator or legislative employee may                                                              
not use governmental resources to solicit contributions for or                                                                  
gather signatures on..."  It's appropriate to say "resources" in                                                                
that phrase because it means a state employee cannot be used from                                                               
9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. to gather signatures for a petition or use                                                               
a Legislative Information Office, for example.  It read                                                                         
"facilities" before when it was suppose to incorporate the two                                                                  
concepts.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0239                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that is his understanding of the intent of the                                                              
language in (H) as well.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0261                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT offered a conceptual amendment to Section 4 of the                                                                
proposed committee substitute.  Susie Barnett is requesting an                                                                  
effective date of December 1, 1999.  In reading a memo from her,                                                                
she indicated that she spends several hours with Terry Cramer of                                                                
the Legislative Affairs Agency every time the ethics code is                                                                    
amended discussing how it should be interpreted.  She also has the                                                              
responsibility of compiling that information into a handbook for                                                                
new employees.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0406                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked Chairman Kott whether it would change                                                                
only the ethics portion of the proposed committee substitute or the                                                             
campaign portion as well.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT replied it would change only the ethics portion.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES inquired as to whether Section 4 actually says                                                             
that.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT reiterated the intent of the conceptual amendment is                                                              
to make sure that the ethics portion of the bill goes into effect                                                               
December 1, 1999.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0471                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JOHN COWDERY, Alaska State Legislature, came before                                                              
the committee as sponsor of HB 225.  It is also his understanding                                                               
that a pamphlet has to be worked on for new employees.  The                                                                     
conceptual amendment would give ample time for that; it is                                                                      
acceptable to him.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0512                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES clarified as to whether Sections 1 and 2 would                                                             
have an immediate effective date, while the rest of the proposed                                                                
committee substitute would have an effective date of December 1,                                                                
1999.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT replied that's the intent of the conceptual                                                                       
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0602                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated that the only reason Section 2 is in                                                                
the bill is because of a cross-reference to Section 3.  He noted                                                                
that Section 1 should match the effective date in Section 5, while                                                              
Sections 2 and 3 should match the proposed December 1, 1999                                                                     
effective date.  He suggested substituting "December 1, 1999" for                                                               
"effective immediately" on page 5, line 21, of the bill.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted that he would inform the drafter of the intent                                                              
of the conceptual amendment in the event that the change is not                                                                 
accurate.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked whether there is any objection to the                                                                       
conceptual amendment.  There being none, it was so adopted.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0750                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG made a motion to move HB 225, Version                                                                   
1-LS0931\G, Cramer, 5/7/99, as amended, from the committee with                                                                 
individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note(s).  There                                                              
being no objection, CSHB 225(JUD) was so moved from the House                                                                   
Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SB 74 - SAME DAY AIRBORNE HUNTING                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT announced the next order of business is SB 74, "An                                                                
Act relating to hunting on the same day airborne."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0883                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT moved Amendment 1.  It reads as follows:                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 1, line 5 insert after "airborne."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     "However, the Board of Game may authorize a wolf control                                                                   
     program involving the shooting of wolves from the air if                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          (1) the Commissioner of Fish and Game makes                                                                           
          written findings demonstrating that a                                                                                 
          biological emergency exists and that there is                                                                         
          no feasible solution other than airborne                                                                              
          control to eliminate the biological emergency,                                                                        
          and                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
          (2) the program is conducted only by                                                                                  
          Department of Fish and Game personnel                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          (3) the program is limited to the specific                                                                            
          geographical area where the biological                                                                                
          emergency exists, and                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          (4) the program removes only the minimum                                                                              
          number of wolves necessary to eliminate the                                                                           
          biological emergency.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 8, after "flight" delete                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          "; and                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          (2) an employee or agent of the department                                                                            
          who, as part of a game management program, is                                                                         
          authorized to shoot or to assist in shooting                                                                          
          wolf, wolverine, fox, or lynx on the same day                                                                         
          that the employee or agent has been airborne."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          Insert:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
          ";or                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
          (2) activities conducted by the Department of                                                                         
          Fish and Game to remove diseased or louse                                                                             
          infected wolves that are considered a threat                                                                          
          to the health of the population."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 13 insert                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          "Sec. 3 AS 16.05.783(d) is amended to read:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          (2) "biological emergency" means a condition,                                                                         
          as determined by the commissioner, where a                                                                            
          wolf population in a specific geographic area                                                                         
          is causing a serious decline in a prey                                                                                
          population to the point that the prey                                                                                 
          population might not likely recover within a                                                                          
          reasonable time without implementing wolf                                                                             
          control."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2, line 13, Sec. 3 is renumbered to Sec. 4                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG objected.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0914                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated the amendment attempts to address some                                                              
of the major concerns voiced in the testimony - the irreversible                                                                
decline issue, as noted by the sponsor; the agent issue, as noted                                                               
by the testifiers; the inability to move quickly for disease or                                                                 
louse infected wolves, as noted by the sponsor; and concern about                                                               
the definition of the term "biological emergency."  In particular,                                                              
the definition of the term "biological emergency" has "serious                                                                  
decline" rather than "irreversible decline."  The testimony                                                                     
indicated that it's not an unheard of biological idea.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT further stated that the amendment would still                                                              
require findings but it takes out the adequate data.  Under the                                                                 
criteria before, the commissioner had to show written findings                                                                  
based on demonstrated and adequate data.  Under the amendment, the                                                              
commissioner would have to make written findings demonstrating that                                                             
a biological emergency exists.  The adequate data portion didn't                                                                
materially add to the statute but it added a hook for a legal                                                                   
challenge.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT further stated that the amendment would                                                                    
eliminate the authorization of agents, whose purpose is to take out                                                             
diseased wolves, and would insert a specific authority to remove                                                                
diseased or louse infested wolves.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1197                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES referred to the language - "the Commissioner                                                               
of Fish and Game makes written findings demonstrating that a                                                                    
biological emergency exists and that there is no feasible solution                                                              
other than airborne control to eliminate the biological emergency"                                                              
- and stated without wolf control there will not be any moose to                                                                
eat in a subsistence area.  She asked Representative Croft whether                                                              
that would be considered a biological emergency.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 1226                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied under the amendment there wouldn't                                                                 
need to be proof of irreversible decline, which the sponsor has                                                                 
indicated is hard to prove, but there would need to be proof of a                                                               
serious decline to the point that the prey population might not                                                                 
likely recover within a reasonable time without wolf control.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1257                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked whether that means all moose hunting has                                                             
to be stopped for subsistence users before wolf control.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1276                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA noted that it doesn't change any other                                                                  
standard in statute.  She suggested hearing from the Department of                                                              
Fish and Game on that matter.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1310                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE REGELIN, Director, Division of Wildlife Conservation,                                                                     
Department of Fish and Game, came before the committee to answer                                                                
questions.  He noted the language Representative James is                                                                       
questioning would not require the Board of Game to eliminate all                                                                
hunting before wolf control could start.  He cited in one area,                                                                 
where there is wolf control, a minimal harvest is allowed in order                                                              
to meet the subsistence needs of the people.  It is a small harvest                                                             
so that the herd can recover faster.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1356                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY, Alaska State Legislature, came before the                                                                   
committee as sponsor of SB 74.  He also has an amendment which                                                                  
attempts to do some of the same things, but he thinks that his is                                                               
the amendment that Representative Croft, himself, and the committee                                                             
members can live with.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT noted that there are some conceptual                                                                       
similarities and differences.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT withdrew his motion on Amendment 1 in order to                                                             
discuss Senator Pete Kelly's amendment.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1444                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY explained the following amendment:                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     *Section 1:(a) would read:                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
          (a) A person may not shoot [OR ASSIST IN                                                                              
          SHOOTING] a free-ranging wolf, wolverine, fox,                                                                        
          or lynx the same day that a person has been                                                                           
          airborne.  However, the Board of Game may                                                                             
          authorize a predator [WOLF] control program                                                                           
          involving shooting from the air if                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     *Section 1: (1) would read:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          (1) The Commissioner of Fish and Game makes                                                                           
          written findings based on biological data that                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          (A) Predation is an important factor                                                                                  
          contributing to low or to a declining prey                                                                            
          population that is inconsistent with a game                                                                           
          management program authorized by the Board of                                                                         
          Game and                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          (B) Reduction of predation can reasonably be                                                                          
          expected to result in aiding an increase in                                                                           
          the prey population or in arresting the                                                                               
          decline of a prey population or,                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
          (C) A disease or parasite is threatening the                                                                          
          normal biological condition of a predator                                                                             
          population or, if left untreated would spread                                                                         
          to other populations.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     *Section 1: (2) would read:                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
          (2) The Commissioner determines that airborne                                                                         
          or same day airborne shooting is necessary to                                                                         
          accomplish a game management program                                                                                  
          authorized by the Board of Game.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY noted that his amendment would put some                                                                      
sideboards by bringing the commissioner back into the loop.  Under                                                              
Representative Croft's amendment, there are ambiguities that might                                                              
make it an irresistible target for a lawsuit from the more radical                                                              
environmental and animal rights groups in the state.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1550                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked Senator Pete Kelly whether the commissioner                                                                 
would make written findings on (A) and (B) or (C) independently.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY replied yes.  He is concerned about the                                                                      
necessity in dealing with a predator population should it have                                                                  
parasite or disease outbreaks, which was not brought up in the                                                                  
initiative process, as seen in the lice infestation jump from the                                                               
canine population to the wolf population.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1593                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT noted that there are a couple of points of                                                                 
agreements and disagreements.  He cited the definition of troubling                                                             
terms, adequate data, irreversible decline, and the authority to                                                                
get rid of diseased wolves as areas of agreements.  He cited the                                                                
use of agents, and definition of "biological emergency" as areas                                                                
that are not consistent between the two amendments.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1698                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY stated the findings are specific and sound to                                                                
implement predator control.  The "minimum number of wolves                                                                      
necessary" creates another target.  He said, "What Doug Popes' (ph)                                                             
idea of minimum is and what the average Alaskans idea of what the                                                               
minimum is may be very different.  It may also be very different                                                                
between what Doug Pope (ph) thinks or the Friends of the Animals,                                                               
who would more than likely institute a lawsuit, or the people of                                                                
McGrath who depend on prey populations for food source and what                                                                 
they consider a minimum."  The Board of Game is called to manage a                                                              
specific resource for abundance, therefore, he is afraid that                                                                   
putting in "minimum" is counter to what the steward agency is                                                                   
suppose to do.  He thinks the sideboards that he has recommended                                                                
are very defendable; they still allow the Board of Game to be in                                                                
the loop and to make some calls for predator control without                                                                    
worrying about a lawsuit, which is also why a biological emergency                                                              
doesn't need to be defined.  He would rather leave it up to the                                                                 
public process than to memorialize it in statute.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1801                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated the language - "there is no feasible                                                                
solution other than airborne control to eliminate the biological                                                                
emergency" - in Representative Croft's amendment troubles her                                                                   
because it is open to who a person is and that person's beliefs.                                                                
In other words, it is open to debate.  In addition, removing the                                                                
language - "minimum number of wolves necessary" - is of concern                                                                 
because what constitutes a minimum number - one, two, three, the                                                                
alpha male, alpha female, or the entire pack.  Those are decisions                                                              
that have to be made by those who are into these types of things.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1866                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG said, in reading both amendments side by                                                                
side, Representative Croft's deletes any authority for airborne                                                                 
hunting.  He wondered whether that is the intent.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT replied it is neither the intent nor the                                                                   
effect.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG noted the deletion of the language - "(2)                                                               
an employee or agent of the department who, as part of a game                                                                   
management program, is authorized to shoot or to assist in shooting                                                             
wolf, wolverine, fox, or lynx on the same day that the employee or                                                              
agent has been airborne" - and the insertion of the language - "(2)                                                             
activities conducted by the Department of Fish and Game to remove                                                               
diseased or louse infected wolves that are considered a threat to                                                               
the health of the population" - makes no reference to airborne                                                                  
hunting.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT responded the first part of the amendment                                                                  
reads, "However, the Board of Game may authorize a wolf control                                                                 
program involving the shooting of wolves from the air if ..."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT moved the following language incorporating                                                                 
Senator Pete Kelly's disease language [new Amendment 1]:                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     "However, the Board of Game may authorize a predator                                                                       
     control program involving the shooting of wolves from the                                                                  
     air if                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
          (1) (A) A disease or parasite is threatening                                                                          
          the normal biological condition of a predator                                                                         
          population or, if left untreated would spread                                                                         
          to other populations."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT noted it seems to be similar language.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2042                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY said he would resist any amendment other than                                                                
the one that he has provided because the stated reason for the                                                                  
initiative was to stop airborne hunting of wolves, and this stops                                                               
it.  Further restrictions on the Department of Fish and Game                                                                    
restricts its ability to carry out game management.  His amendment                                                              
can go as far as it can and still have a departmental management                                                                
program while not allowing for aerial hunting of predators.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2079                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA stated new Amendment 1 is good because it                                                               
considers both amendments.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2105                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT said he took part of his amendment verbatim,                                                               
and clarified as to whether Senator Pete Kelly is considering his                                                               
amendment as all or nothing.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2116                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY stated Representative Croft is pulling out of                                                                
his amendment something that further protects wolves/predators, but                                                             
nothing that protects prey populations.  The current law already                                                                
over protects predators when he wants to protect both predators and                                                             
prey populations.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 2155                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated the new Amendment 1 gives a whole new                                                               
blanket authority in the area of diseases and lice.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY replied he doesn't have any objection to that.                                                               
He has objection to going too far to protect predator populations                                                               
even to their detriments.  It wouldn't allow for aerial hunting if                                                              
they have a disease.  He further stated that the original bill was                                                              
just fine.  It carried out the objectives of the original                                                                       
initiative - to not allow for aerial hunting.  But language was                                                                 
purposely included to make it so that no predator - specifically                                                                
wolves - could not be killed by the department even when necessary                                                              
because some people don't like killing wolves.  He reiterated he                                                                
wants to maintain the objective of the initiative and still allow                                                               
the department to carry out predator control.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2226                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT withdrew his motion on new Amendment 1.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2240                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked whether it would be the same if it read,                                                             
"to allow predation of the predator for parasitically bothered                                                                  
critters."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2295                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated that is what he did, but he is getting                                                              
the sense that this is a package deal.  His idea of incorporating                                                               
elements of both amendment is not what the sponsor wants, which is                                                              
why he withdrew it.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2340                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES moved Amendment 2.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT objected.  The most problematic section is the                                                             
removal of the language "or assist in shooting".                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2381                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY stated the language was removed to deal with the                                                             
issue of assisting departmental employees so that they can carry                                                                
out the actual shooting of the animal while being transported by a                                                              
helicopter or airplane, which is the current practice in most                                                                   
cases.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2411                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT stated the departmental personnel would be the ones                                                               
actually pulling the trigger.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PETE KELLY said yes.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2419                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI said she doesn't have a problem with the                                                               
removal of the language - "or assist in shooting" - because the                                                                 
department needs the flexibility to hire a pilot while they do the                                                              
shooting.  She does have a problem with the language - "agent" - in                                                             
Section 2 (2), however.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT indicated that is not addressed in this amendment.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-60, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT called for an at-ease at 3:08 p.m. and called the                                                                 
meeting back to order at 3:12 p.m.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 0029                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT asked whether there is any objection to Amendment 2.                                                              
There being none, it was so adopted.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0038                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE JAMES made a motion to move SB 74, as amended, from                                                              
the committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero                                                             
fiscal note(s).  There being no objection, HCSSB 74(JUD) was so                                                                 
moved from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN KOTT recessed the House Judiciary Standing Committee                                                                   
meeting to the call of the chair at 3:14 p.m.                                                                                   

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