Legislature(1997 - 1998)

02/14/1997 01:03 PM JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                       February 14, 1997                                       
                           1:03 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Joe Green, Chairman                                            
 Representative Con Bunde, Vice Chairman                                       
 Representative Brian Porter                                                   
 Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                
 Representative Jeannette James                                                
 Representative Eric Croft                                                     
 Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 All members present                                                           
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 22                                                             
 "An Act relating to civil liability for illegal sales of alcoholic            
 beverages; and providing for an effective date."                              
                                                                               
      - MOVED CSHB 22 (JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                   
                                                                               
 HOUSE BILL NO. 30                                                             
 "An Act relating to civil liability for skateboarding; and                    
 providing for an effective date."                                             
                                                                               
      - MOVED CSHB 30 (JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                   
                                                                               
 REAPPOINTMENT OF SHIRLEY MCCOY TO THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON ETHICS              
                                                                               
  - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                    
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB  22                                                                
 SHORT TITLE: CIVIL LIABILITY FOR BOOTLEGGERS                                 
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) IVAN,Porter                                     
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE         JRN-PG             ACTION                                    
 01/13/97        33    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        33    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        33    (H)   JUDICIARY                                         
 01/24/97              (H)   JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                       
 01/24/97              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                       
 02/05/97              (H)   JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                       
 02/05/97              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB  30                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: CIVIL LIABILITY FOR SKATEBOARDING                                
 SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MULDER                                          
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE          JRN-PG             ACTION                                   
 01/13/97        35    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        35    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        35    (H)   L&C, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                           
 01/29/97              (H)   L&C AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 17                        
 01/29/97              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 01/31/97       187    (H)   L&C RPT  CS(L&C) 2DP 2NR                          
 01/31/97       187    (H)   DP: COWDERY, RYAN                                 
 01/31/97       187    (H)   NR: BRICE, ROKEBERG                               
 01/31/97       187    (H)   2 ZERO FISCAL NOTES (SPONSOR, COURT)              
 01/31/97       188    (H)   REFERRED TO JUDICIARY                             
 02/12/97              (H)   JUD AT  1:00 PM CAPITOL 120                       
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN                                                      
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 418                                                    
 Juneau, AK  99811                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)465-4942                                                     
 Position Statement:  Prime Sponsor, HB 22                                     
                                                                               
 TOM WRIGHT, Legislative Aide                                                  
 Representative Ivan Ivan                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 418                                                    
 Juneau, AK  99811                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)465-3882                                                     
 Position Statement:  Provided testimony on HB 22                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER                                                   
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 501                                                    
 Juneau, AK  99811                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)465-2647                                                     
 Position Statement:  Prime Sponsor, HB 30                                     
                                                                               
 TIM ROGERS, Legislative Program Coordinator                                   
 Municipality of Anchorage                                                     
 P.O. Box 196650                                                               
 Anchorage, AK  99650                                                          
 Telephone:  (907)343-4417                                                     
 Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 30                              
                                                                               
 IAN FULP, Director                                                            
 Parks and Recreation                                                          
 City of Kodiak                                                                
 410 Cedar Street                                                              
 Kodiak, AK  99615                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)486-8665                                                     
 Position Statement:  Provided testimony on HB 30                              
                                                                               
 TIM SULLIVAN, Legislative Aide                                                
 Representative Eldon Mulder                                                   
 Capitol Building, Room 501                                                    
 Juneau, AK  99811                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)465-2647                                                     
 Position Statement:  Provided testimony on HB 30                              
                                                                               
 NANCY ROBB, Director                                                          
 Parks and Recreation                                                          
 City of Valdez                                                                
 P.O. Box 307                                                                  
 Valdez, AK  99686                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)835-2531                                                     
 Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 30                            
                                                                               
 TIM ALLEN, Risk Manager                                                       
 City and Borough of Juneau                                                    
 155 South Seward Street                                                       
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)586-5302                                                     
 Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 30                            
                                                                               
 DAVE KIEL, Superintendent                                                     
 Parks and Landscape                                                           
 City and Borough of Juneau                                                    
 155 South Seward Street                                                       
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)586-5226                                                     
 Position Statement:  Provided testimony on HB 30                              
                                                                               
 KEVIN RITCHIE, Alaska Municipal League                                        
      & Alaska Conference of Mayors                                            
 217 Second Street                                                             
 Juneau, AK  99801                                                             
 Telephone:  (907)586-1325                                                     
 Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 30                              
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-17, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 The House Judiciary Standing Committee was called to order by                 
 Chairman Joe Green at 1:03 p.m.  Members present at the call to               
 order were Representatives Con Bunde, Brian Porter, Eric Croft,               
 Ethan Berkowitz and Chairman Joe Green.                                       
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN JOE GREEN advised members they would first consider HB 22            
 sponsored by Representative Ivan Ivan, and next, HB 30 sponsored by           
 Representative Eldon Mulder.                                                  
 HB 22 - CIVIL LIABILITY FOR BOOTLEGGERS                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN presented opening remarks on HOUSE BILL              
 NO. 22 - "An Act relating to civil liability for illegal sales of             
 alcoholic beverages; and providing for an effective date."  He                
 explained that the proposed legislation would make bootleggers                
 responsible for actions that resulted from the illegal sale of                
 alcohol to the individual and the resulting judicial costs.                   
                                                                               
 Representative Norman Rokeberg arrived.                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE moved to adopt CSHB 22 (JUD) for the                 
 purpose of discussion.  There being no objection, CSHB 22 (JUD) was           
 adopted.                                                                      
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN advised members that language had been added              
 under Section 1 that would explicitly express the intent of the               
 original bill.  A person who sells or barters alcohol illegally               
 would be strictly liable for civil damages to the recipient, or               
 another person.  Representative Ivan explained that the proposed              
 legislation would also require the bootlegger to pay costs to the             
 state or political subdivision of the state to criminally prosecute           
 the case.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Representative Jeannette James arrived.                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN pointed out that the third change from the                
 original version was the definition of civil damages which would              
 include damages for personal injury, death, or injury to a person,            
 including the state or a political subdivision of the state.                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN advised members that Section 2 addressed civil            
 liability for people who sell or barter a controlled substance as             
 defined by statute.                                                           
                                                                               
 TOM WRIGHT, Legislative Aide, Representative Ivan, advised members            
 that the changes explained by Representative Ivan were the result             
 of input from Jim Sourant, Representative Porter's staff, Lisa                
 Kirsch, Counsel to the House Judiciary Committee, Gail Voigtlander,           
 Assistant Attorney General, Special Litigation Section and Mike               
 Ford, Attorney, Legislative Legal Services.                                   
                                                                               
 MR. WRIGHT pointed out some minor changes to the latest proposed              
 committee substitute (LS0148\K) suggested by Mr. Ford.  These                 
 changes would appear on page 1, line 6, after "strictly liable",              
 insert (1), and delete [(1)] on line 7.  He advised members that            
 they had some discussions as to whether the state or political                
 subdivision could be considered a "person".  Mr. Wright stated that           
 by placing the (1) after "strictly liable" on line 6, and removing            
 it from line 7, that it would be clear that a bootlegger could be             
 liable to (1) another person, or (2) the state or a political                 
 subdivision.                                                                  
                                                                               
 MR. WRIGHT advised members another suggested change to the new                
 proposed committee substitute would fall on page 1, line 10, after            
 "(2)" insert the word for.  That would result in saying that, "the          
 recipient or another person," and also "for the state" would make             
 it clear that the state was also included in the process.  Mr.                
 Wright pointed out that those changes would also be made under                
 Section 2, as everything done in Section 1 was paralleled in                  
 Section 2.                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER moved to adopt Amendment 1, as                    
 described by Mr. Wright.  There being no objection, Amendment 1,              
 CSHB 22(JUD), was adopted.                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ERIC CROFT referenced page 1, line 12, and asked if            
 they wanted to recover the costs to criminally prosecute the                  
 recipient of the alcohol, or the bootlegger.                                  
                                                                               
 MR. WRIGHT explained, with respect to criminal prosecution, that              
 the state presently had the ability to attempt to recover those               
 costs.  The proposed legislation says that if a person who received           
 the alcohol illegally commits a crime while under the influence,              
 that the bootlegger would also be partly responsible for that                 
 action.                                                                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG asked if the Alcohol Beverage                  
 Control Board (ABC), and the Department of Law had any input on the           
 new draft committee substitute.                                               
                                                                               
 MR. WRIGHT advised members that Ms. Voigtlander, Assistant Attorney           
 General, had reviewed the language and found no problem.  Also the            
 ABC Board had the opportunity to review and consider the suggested            
 changes, and they expressed no concern.                                       
                                                                               
 MR. WRIGHT pointed out that while working through the process they            
 did have conversations with Linda O'Bannon, Assistant Attorney                
 General, Commercial Section, and the only area she was concerned              
 with was Section 1; however, she had no objections to the amended             
 language.                                                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT noted that the original genesis of the                   
 proposed legislation was a result of the Chokwak v. Worley decision         
 which dealt with social hosts, and he wanted to confirm that the              
 intent of the provision was to cover those who sell alcohol through           
 the business of bootlegging, and not liability to a social host.              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN said that would be correct.                               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER moved to report CSHB 22 (JUD) out of                    
 committee with the attached zero fiscal notes and individual                  
 recommendations.  There being no objection, it was so ordered.                
 CSHB 22(JUD) was reported out of committee.                                   
                                                                               
 HB 30 - CIVIL LIABILITY FOR SKATEBOARDING                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN GREEN advised members they would next consider HOUSE BILL            
 NO. 30  "An Act relating to civil liability for skateboarding; and            
 providing for an effective date."  He invited the prime sponsor,              
 Representative Eldon Mulder, to present comments to the committee.            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER, Prime Sponsor, HB 30, advised members            
 he introduced the proposed legislation at the request of the                  
 Municipality of Anchorage because they were interested in                     
 developing a skateboard facility.  He noted that the City and                 
 Borough of Juneau was also interested in creating a skateboard                
 park.                                                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER pointed out that municipalities were willing            
 to develop areas suitable for skateboarding if they could be                  
 insulated from liability for claims arising from hazards inherent             
 to skateboarding.  Representative Mulder advised members that the             
 intent of the proposed legislation was to encourage municipalities            
 to proceed with development of areas for outdoor recreation without           
 increasing their liability unnecessarily.  He expressed that the              
 proposed legislation would only apply to municipal skateboard                 
 parks.                                                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER further explained that the bill was patterned           
 after past legislation which provided limited protection to ski               
 areas.  It would require municipalities to post warning signs that            
 the risks and liability would fall upon the skateboarder.                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER pointed out that the original language was              
 amended in the House Labor and Commerce Committee to make minor's             
 parents or legal guardian responsible to determine the minor's                
 ability to skateboard.  Another change in House Labor and Commerce            
 Committee would require municipalities to delineate the boundaries            
 of the skateboard facility with fencing, or another type of                   
 enclosure surrounding structure.  He pointed out that those                   
 amendments had been offered by Representative Rokeberg.                       
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE pointed out that snow boarding facilities were           
 already covered through previous legislation.                                 
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG advised members he had an amendment he                
 would like to offer at some point; however, because Representative            
 Mulder was needed in another committee, asked that he speak to the            
 referenced amendment briefly prior to his departure.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER pointed out that Representative Rokeberg's              
 amendment basically spoke to the nuisance issue of skateboarding              
 and the activity taking place in areas where skateboarding should             
 be prohibited.  He advised members that his largest concern with              
 the amendment related to the resulting costs to municipalities and            
 the Department of Public Safety.                                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN GREEN moved on to take testimony via teleconference from             
 Anchorage.                                                                    
                                                                               
 TIM ROGERS, Legislative Program Coordinator, Municipality of                  
 Anchorage, advised members they fully supported HB 30.  He noted              
 that skateboarding had become a very popular sport among young                
 people and the municipality was trying to provide them a venue                
 where they could participate in their sport in a non-destructive              
 way.                                                                          
                                                                               
 MR. ROGERS advised members the municipality did have concern with             
 Representative Rokeberg's proposed language relating to posting of            
 signs.  He stated that if it passed, the Municipality of Anchorage            
 could be in a position where they would have to post all areas that           
 skateboarding would be allowed.  Mr. Rogers pointed out that the              
 coastal trail was a multi-use facility and skateboarding was                  
 allowed there and the proposed language might require the                     
 municipality to post that area, as well as other similar areas.               
                                                                               
 MR. ROGERS noted that the municipality would not object to some               
 sort of requirement for private property; however, he would be                
 concerned if public property were included if the amendment passed.           
 He added that enforcement costs resulting from the proposed                   
 language would also be of concern to the municipality                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that while the proposed                   
 language could cause a slight fiscal impact to municipalities,  the           
 intent was to allow the municipality to post areas where                      
 skateboarding would be allowed, not where skateboarding would not             
 be allowed to take place.                                                     
                                                                               
 MR. ROGERS reiterated the municipality's concern of being required            
 to place signs in the outlying areas of town in order to make sure            
 that people understand that skateboarding was allowed.   He felt              
 they were possibly talking about two different levels of activities           
 because the city of Anchorage was speaking directly to a facility,            
 versus other areas where skateboarding might take place.                      
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN GREEN requested testimony from Kodiak via teleconference.            
                                                                               
 IAN FULP, Director, Parks and Recreation, City of Kodiak, asked if            
 the city would be responsible for the stipulations listed under the           
 duties of municipal skateboard facility users.  It was his concern            
 that the city would be liable if a skateboarder received injuries             
 because of not wearing a helmet.  Mr. Fulp also asked if a                    
 municipality would be required to supervise individuals using the             
 facility during the times the facility was open.                              
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN GREEN felt it would be up to the individual municipality             
 to determine the amount of risk they wished to assume within their            
 own facilities.                                                               
                                                                               
 TIM SULLIVAN, Legislative Aide, Representative Mulder, explained              
 that the proposed legislation would not require someone to be on              
 the premises to monitor the facility at all times.  He noted that             
 it would be the responsibility of the skateboard facility user to             
 have the proper equipment and the inherent risk would be theirs.              
                                                                               
 MR. FULP asked for an explanation regarding fencing requirements of           
 a facility.                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. SULLIVAN stated that it was his understanding that the fence              
 would indicate where the boundaries of the facility were, and was             
 not intended to lock the area up.                                             
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG pointed out that the purpose of the fencing           
 language was to define the boundaries of a facility, as well as to            
 indicate fencing to be the preferred means of doing that.  He noted           
 that it would also provide greater security and assist in the                 
 administration of the facility.                                               
                                                                               
 MR. FULP expressed his satisfaction to his questions regarding                
 supervision of a facility and that it would not require a                     
 municipality to make sure users were equipped with the proper                 
 safety equipment, as well as not being required to supervise the              
 facility at all times.  He did not agree with the requirement of              
 fencing a skateboarding area, adding that if too many restrictions            
 were placed on the activity, and the facility, that it would create           
 funding problems for the municipalities, beyond that of building              
 the facility.                                                                 
                                                                               
 MR. FULP pointed out that there were facilities around the country            
 that were not fenced and locked, and did not have supervisors.  To            
 his knowledge, those facilities had not had any problems.                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER pointed out that as a past member of the                
 Anchorage Municipal Assembly, he felt it would be the                         
 responsibility of the municipalities to impose their own rules and            
 regulations for the facility.                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN GREEN requested testimony from Valdez, Alaska.                       
                                                                               
 NANCY ROBB, Director, Parks and Recreation, City of Valdez, advised           
 members they were in support of HB 30, although she had the same              
 concerns expressed by Mr. Fulp regarding fencing requirements.                
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-17, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 TIM ALLEN, Risk Manager, City and Borough of Juneau, advised                  
 members they were in support of the proposed legislation, noting              
 that Mayor Egan had provided a letter expressing the municipality's           
 support of HB 30.                                                             
                                                                               
 MR. ALLEN stated that he would agree with Representative Porter               
 regarding fencing requirements to allow the city and borough the              
 discretion to provide the micro management requirements.                      
                                                                               
 DAVE KIEL advised members that the Juneau Douglas High School had             
 an innovative program called the Phoenix Program which was designed           
 to teach students how projects work in the real world.  He noted              
 that it was intended purely as an academic exercise; however, it              
 had taken on a life of its own.  Mr. Kiel pointed out that a park             
 site had been secured from the Parks and Recreation Advisory                  
 Committee; the neighborhood bought into the idea, they got                    
 volunteers from volunteer architects and structural engineers, and            
 to help with the design the program approached the city's planning            
 commission and was issued a conditional use permit.  Mr. Kiel noted           
 that during that time, the students were fund raising and currently           
 have $50,000 in the bank for the project.                                     
                                                                               
 MR. KIEL advised members that a survey was conducted among the                
 Juneau schools which reflected approximately 1000 active                      
 skateboarders in Juneau.  He noted that was roughly equal to the              
 number of kids who play little league baseball and softball, and              
 pointed out the city currently maintained 16 ball fields for little           
 league.  Mr. Kiel stated that if HB 30 were to pass, the city of              
 Juneau would incorporate it into the city's maintenance operation.            
                                                                               
 MR. KIEL noted that the city had banned skateboarding on the                  
 waterfront and the downtown business district.                                
                                                                               
 Number 510                                                                    
                                                                               
 KEVIN RITCHIE, speaking on behalf of the Alaska Municipal League              
 and Alaska Conference of Mayors advised members that both entities            
 were in strong support of the proposed legislation, HB 30.                    
                                                                               
 MR. RITCHIE expressed that the kids would be much safer in a                  
 skateboard facility than the places they currently skateboard.  He            
 felt that anything that could be done to bring them into a                    
 skateboard facility, as was being designed for Juneau, would be a             
 big advantage.                                                                
                                                                               
 MR. RITCHIE also had a problem with the suggested language that               
 would require areas where skateboarding was allowed to be posted,             
 pointing out that it would be very difficult to enforce.                      
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-18, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN GREEN called a brief At-ease.                                        
                   [Off record:  2:25 p.m.]                                    
                   [On record:  2:27 p.m.]                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved to amend CSHB 30 (L&C) as follows:              
 Page 1, line 1, delete [civil liability for]; page 2, following               
 line 10, insert,  Sec. 05.50.025.  Prohibition of skateboarding in           
 undesignated places.   (a) A person may not skateboard on public or           
 private property without the written permission of the property               
 owner unless the property is posted with signs that clearly                   
 indicate that the property is available for skateboarding.                    
      (b)  In addition to being subject to civil liability under AS            
 05.50.020, a person who violates this section is guilty of a                  
 violation and, upon conviction, the court may impose a fine of not            
 more than $50.00.                                                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVES PORTER, BERKOWITZ and CROFT objected.                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG explained that the intent of the bill was             
 to deal with skateboards and other various activities.  He stated             
 that he and his staff, while researching the issue, discovered                
 there were no prohibitions within the Alaska State Statutes for the           
 illegal use of skateboards other than the trespass statute.                   
 Representative Rokeberg further stated that the illegal use of a              
 skateboard could, in essence, cause thousands of dollars worth of             
 damage to private and public property throughout the state and felt           
 it was an appropriate matter to bring before the Judiciary                    
 Committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER spoke against Amendment 1.  He pointed out              
 that the City and Borough of Juneau had addressed that issue simply           
 by not allowing skateboarding in the downtown business area, and              
 the manner of enforcement would be up to the individual                       
 municipality.  Representative Porter further explained that it                
 would involve a policy decision that the assembly and the mayor of            
 the community would make with their own resources.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG advised members he brought the amendment              
 before the committee as a means of information and to attract                 
 public comment because he wanted to express that the skateboard               
 community, and those who skateboard, have a responsibility to the             
 people of the state to be responsible as to where and when they               
 conduct their recreational activities.                                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG withdrew Amendment 1.  There being no                 
 objection, Amendment 1 was withdrawn.                                         
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT moved to amend CSHB 30 (L&C) on page 3, after            
 line 17, insert a new subsection; (d)  The municipality shall                
 maintain and operate the skateboard facility in a non-negligent               
 manner.  Representative Porter objected.                                     
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT explained that the intent of Amendment 2 was             
 an attempt to cure the problem of defining a complete defense to              
 the crime.  He stated that he was striving to recognize the                   
 inherent risk of skateboarding and impose certain duties upon the             
 users, but in addition to that, continue the duty of the skate park           
 operator that they operate in a non-negligent manner.                         
 Representative Croft pointed out that the duties were very specific           
 and extensive for the users; however, felt there should be a                  
 corresponding duty on the part of the operator of the facility.               
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER advised members that his problem involved a             
 municipality's requirement to "maintain and operate", pointing out            
 that some municipalities may not wish to "operate" a facility, but            
 to provide the facility.  He suggested language such as "The                  
 municipality shall construct and maintain the skateboard facility             
 in a non-negligent manner."                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT would accept that as a friendly amendment to             
 Amendment 2.                                                                  
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG agreed in part with the amendment to the              
 amendment, although he would exclude the word "construct".                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER responded pointing out that the facility                
 would be constructed under the municipalities purview and                     
 responsibility if constructed on municipal property.                          
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER questioned whether there was an actual                  
 definition, or case law definition to non-negligence or non-                  
 negligent.                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT advised members he would accept both                     
 suggestions as friendly amendments to his Amendment 2.  The                   
 language would then read (d)  The municipality shall not construct         
 or maintain the skateboard facility in a negligent manner., and              
 moved that language.                                                          
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN GREEN asked if the amendment would put a facility at more            
 risk if something occurred during the course of the day in which a            
 person would claim the facility was maintained in a negligent                 
 manner if, previous to the incident, everything was operating                 
 appropriately.                                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER felt that the reason they were discussing               
 that particular section was because of the blanket immunity                   
 provided in the other section because one basically builds on the             
 other.  However, he felt Amendment 2 was a basic, reasonable                  
 recitation of what common law was, and the word "maintain" did not            
 mean to operate, but to keep in good working order the construction           
 of the facility.                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG opposed the use of the word "construct".              
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken:  In Favor:  Representatives Bunde,                
 Porter, Rokeberg, Croft and Berkowitz.  Opposed:  Representatives             
 James and Chairman Green.  Amendment 2, CSHB 30 (L&C) was adopted.            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT offered Amendment 3, page 2, line 2, to delete           
 after the word "be" [a contributory], and insert the primary; and           
 on page 2 line 6, delete [a contributory] and insert the primary.           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER suggested that the word "primary", in the               
 proposed amendment, be changed to "substantial".                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT accepted that as a friendly amendment to                 
 Amendment 3.                                                                  
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-18, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 000                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MULDER felt with the adoption of Amendment 2 that              
 the proposed Amendment 3 would not be necessary.  He noted that if            
 a facility were constructed or maintained in a negligent manner,              
 the other factor would not come into play.                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT agreed to a certain point, stating that                  
 Amendment 2 went a long way towards curing the concern; however,              
 did not know if it would cure his concern entirely.                           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT maintained his motion to adopt Amendment 3,              
 which would include Representative Porter's friendly amendment to             
 the amendment of replacing the words "the primary" with a                    
 substantial.                                                                 
                                                                               
 A roll call vote was taken:  In favor:  Representatives Croft and             
 Berkowitz.  Opposed:  Representatives Porter, Rokeberg and Chairman           
 Green.  Amendment 3, CSHB 30 (L&C) failed adoption.                           
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT moved to report CSHB 30 (JUD) out of committee           
 with individual recommendations and the attached zero fiscal notes.           
 There being no objection, CSHB 30 (JUD) was reported out of                   
 committee.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 706                                                                    
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 There being nothing more to come before the committee, Chairman Joe           
 Green adjourned the House Judiciary Committee meeting at 3:45 p.m.            
                                                                               

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