Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/21/1994 01:15 PM JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                         March 21, 1994                                        
                            1:15 p.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Rep. Brian Porter, Chairman                                                  
  Rep. Jeannette James, Vice-Chair                                             
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Gail Phillips                                                           
  Rep. Joe Green                                                               
  Rep. Cliff Davidson                                                          
  Rep. Jim Nordlund                                                            
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  HB 84:    "An Act implementing certain recommendations of                    
            Alaska 2000 to improve the state's education                       
            system; and providing for an effective date."                      
            PASSED FROM COMMITTEE                                              
  HB 351:   "An Act relating to the issuance of permits for                    
            the carrying of a concealed weapon."                               
            PASSED FROM COMMITTEE AS AMENDED                                   
  HB 420:   "An Act relating to limited liability companies;                   
            amending Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure 20 and                    
            24; and providing for an effective date."                          
            NOT HEARD                                                          
  HB 392:   "An Act relating to the confidentiality of                         
            permanent fund dividend application information;                   
            relating to the permanent fund dividend program;                   
            and providing for an effective date."                              
            NOT HEARD                                                          
  *HB 518:  "An Act extending the termination date of the                      
            Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar Association;                  
            and providing for an effective date."                              
            NOT HEARD                                                          
  SB 151:   "An Act providing for oil and gas exploration                      
            incentive credits for certain activities on                        
            certain land in the state; and providing for an                    
            effective date."                                                   
            NOT HEARD                                                          
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  SHEILA PETERSON                                                              
  Legislative Liaison                                                          
  Department of Education                                                      
  801 W. 10th St., Suite 200                                                   
  Juneau, AK  99801-1894                                                       
  Position Statement:  Commented on HB 84                                      
  ERIC MUSSER, Staff                                                           
  Rep. Brian Porter                                                            
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Rm. 118                                                       
  Juneau, AK 99801                                                             
  Position Statement:  Explained CSHB 351                                      
  SGT. DAN LOWDEN                                                              
  Department of Public Safety                                                  
  P.O. Box 111200                                                              
  Juneau, AK  99811-1200                                                       
  Position Statement:  Opposed HB 351                                          
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB  84                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                 
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/22/93       135    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/22/93       135    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  01/22/93       135    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE  (DOE) 1/22/93                      
  01/22/93       136    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  02/18/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/18/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/18/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  04/05/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  04/06/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  04/06/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  10/20/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  01/26/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  01/26/94              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  01/31/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  01/31/94              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/04/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/08/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/08/94              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/11/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/14/94      2368    (H)   HES RPT  CS(HES) NEW TITLE                       
                              3DP 1DNP 3NR                                     
  02/14/94      2369    (H)   DP:  VEZEY, BUNDE, TOOHEY                        
  02/14/94      2369    (H)   DNP: B.DAVIS                                     
  02/14/94      2369    (H)   NR:  KOTT, G.DAVIS, OLBERG                       
  02/14/94      2369    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE (DOE) 2/14/94                       
  03/18/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  HB 351                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: PERMIT TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS                               
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) JAMES,Bunde,Olberg,Sanders                     
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/07/94      2019    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2019    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2020    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE                  
  01/12/94      2043    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS                            
  01/22/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  01/22/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/12/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/12/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/24/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/24/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/02/94      2573    (H)   STA RPT  CS(STA) NEW TITLE                       
                              5DP 1NR                                          
  03/02/94      2573    (H)   DP:  VEZEY,KOTT,G.DAVIS,OLBERG,                  
  03/02/94      2573    (H)   NR:  ULMER                                       
  03/02/94      2573    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE (H.STA FOR DPS)                     
  03/21/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  HB 420                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANIES                                     
  BILL VERSION: SSHB 420                                                       
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) THERRIAULT,Mulder                              
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/31/94      2206    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/31/94      2206    (H)   L&C, JUDICIARY, STATE AFFAIRS                    
  02/24/94      2522    (H)   SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE                               
  02/24/94      2522    (H)   L&C, JUDICIARY, STATE AFFAIRS                    
  03/08/94              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/09/94      2676    (H)   L&C RPT  1DP 3NR                                 
  03/09/94      2676    (H)   DP:  MULDER                                      
  03/09/94      2676    (H)   NR:  WILLIAMS, SITTON, HUDSON                    
  03/09/94      2676    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED) 3/9/94                  
  03/09/94      2703    (H)   COSPONSOR(S):  MULDER                            
  03/18/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  HB 392                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND PROGRAM                                 
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PARNELL                                        
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/21/94      2125    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/21/94      2125    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE                  
  02/22/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/22/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/03/94              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  03/03/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/03/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/03/94              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/04/94      2605    (H)   STA RPT  CS(STA) 2DP 3NR                         
  03/04/94      2605    (H)   DP:  VEZEY, G.DAVIS                              
  03/04/94      2605    (H)   NR:  KOTT, OLBERG, SANDERS                       
  03/04/94      2605    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV) 3/4/94                   
  03/18/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  HB 518                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: EXTEND ALASKA BAR ASSOCIATION                                   
  SPONSOR(S): JUDICIARY                                                        
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  03/04/94      2608    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/04/94      2608    (H)   JUDICIARY                                        
  03/21/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  SB 151                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                 
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  03/05/93       618    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/05/93       618    (S)   OIL & GAS, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                    
  03/05/93       618    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DNR, REV)                     
  03/05/93       619    (S)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  03/16/93              (S)   O&G AT 08:00 AM                                  
  03/16/93              (H)   MINUTE(O&G)                                      
  03/16/93              (S)   MINUTE(O&G)                                      
  03/23/93              (S)   O&G AT 05:00 PM BUTROVICH                        
                              ROOM 205                                         
  03/23/93              (S)   MINUTE(O&G)                                      
  03/30/93              (S)   MINUTE(O&G)                                      
  03/31/93      1002    (S)   O&G RPT  3DP 1DNP/AM                             
  03/31/93      1002    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FNS (DNR, REV)                     
  04/15/93      1418    (S)   JUD REFERRAL WAIVED  Y11 N9                      
  04/18/93      1468    (S)   FIN RPT  6DP 1DNP                                
  04/18/93      1468    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FNS (DNR, REV)                     
  04/18/93              (S)   FIN AT 01:00 PM SENATE FINANCE                   
                              ROOM 518                                         
  04/18/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  04/18/93              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  04/21/93      1613    (S)   RULES   3CAL 1NR   4/21/93                       
  04/21/93      1620    (S)   MOVED TO BOTTOM OF CALENDAR                      
  04/21/93      1633    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                             
  04/21/93      1633    (S)   AM NO  1     FAILED  Y9 N11                      
  04/21/93      1634    (S)   AM NO  2     FAILED  Y7 N13                      
  04/21/93      1634    (S)   ADVANCE TO THIRD READING FAILED                  
                              Y11 N9                                           
  04/21/93      1634    (S)   THIRD READING 4/22 CALENDAR                      
  04/22/93      1675    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  SB 151                      
  04/22/93      1675    (S)   PASSED Y14 N6                                    
  04/22/93      1675    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATES SAME AS PASSAGE                  
  04/22/93      1675    (S)   JACKO  NOTICE OF RECONSID-                       
  04/23/93      1714    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP/IN THIRD READING                  
  04/23/93      1715    (S)   PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y14 N6                 
  04/23/93      1715    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATES SAME AS PASSAGE                  
  04/23/93      1717    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                               
  04/24/93      1508    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  04/24/93      1508    (H)   OIL & GAS, RESOURCES, FINANCE                    
  01/31/94              (H)   O&G AT 05:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  01/31/94              (H)   MINUTE(O&G)                                      
  02/02/94      2215    (H)   ADOPT AMENDMENT                                  
  02/02/94      2215    (H)   O&G RPT  3DP 2NR                                 
  02/02/94      2215    (H)   DP:  KOTT, G. DAVIS, GREEN                       
  02/02/94      2215    (H)   NR:  SITTON, OLBERG                              
  02/02/94      2215    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DNR) 2/2/94                   
  02/02/94      2216    (H)   JUD REFERRAL ADDED                               
  02/23/94              (H)   MINUTE(ECO)                                      
  03/04/94              (H)   RES AT 08:15 AM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/04/94              (H)   MINUTE(RES)                                      
  03/07/94      2641    (H)   RES RPT HCS(RES) 6DP                             
  03/07/94      2641    (H)   DP:  HUDSON, GREEN, JAMES,                       
  03/07/94      2641    (H)   DP:  BUNDE, WILLIAMS                             
  03/07/94      2641    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV) 3/7/94                   
  03/07/94      2641    (H)   -PREVIOUS ZERO FISCAL NOTE                       
                              (DNR) 2/2/94                                     
  03/21/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 94-47, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  The House Judiciary Standing Committee was called to order                   
  at 1:22 p.m., on March 21, 1994.  A quorum was present.                      
  Chairman Porter announced that the committee would take up                   
  HB 84 first, HB 351 next, and with time permitting will take                 
  up HB 420 and HB 392.                                                        
  HB 84 - IMPLEMENT ALASKA 2000 RECOMMENDATIONS                                
  Number 045                                                                   
  REP. JIM NORDLUND offered Amendment 1, which would require                   
  by law school districts to do two evaluations on teachers                    
  per year.  He noted that this is generally done by most                      
  school districts in the state, but there was testimony heard                 
  in both the Judiciary Committee and the HESS Committee that                  
  those evaluations were not being done.                                       
  REP. NORDLUND said the amendment would also change the                       
  awarding of tenure from four years to three years.  The                      
  fourth year being a probationary period.                                     
  REP. NORDLUND went on to explain by section that:                            
  Section 6 is conforming.                                                     
  Section 7 (c) sets up provisions for three year tenures.                     
  Section 7 (d) sets up the two year evaluation requirement.                   
  Section 7 (g) sets up the improvement plan that would be                     
  required for probationary period in the fourth year.                         
  REP. NORDLUND also noted the provision in the amendment that                 
  states tenure would be granted after two years if no                         
  evaluation was done.                                                         
  Number 162                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND moved Amendment 1.                                             
  Number 170                                                                   
  REP. GAIL PHILLIPS objected and said that it is already                      
  established in regulation that school districts provide two                  
  evaluations per year for nontenure teachers and one                          
  evaluation per year for tenure teachers.  She noted that in                  
  her discussions with the School Board Association and with                   
  the NEA (National Education Association), she heard of the                   
  concerns of the evaluation process but said she felt it was                  
  not the function of the legislature to tell school districts                 
  how to do there administrative business.                                     
  REP. PHILLIPS went on to say the legislature could provide a                 
  letter of intent or suggestions.  She reiterated her concern                 
  about circumventing the powers between the administration                    
  and the legislature.  She referenced page 3, Section 8 of                    
  Amendment 1, establishing a statewide evaluation process,                    
  and said that would require an extremely high fiscal note.                   
  She urged members to vote no.                                                
  Number 193                                                                   
  REP. JEANNETTE JAMES aired her concerns about tenure.  She                   
  said that she felt the main problem was with tenure itself                   
  and thus far she had not seen anything that dealt with or                    
  resolved that issue.                                                         
  Number 215                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND, in response to Rep. Phillips' concern,                        
  pointed out that the evaluations are in regulations but the                  
  testimony received by the committee states that the                          
  evaluations are not being done.                                              
  REP. NORDLUND spoke to Rep. James' concern by saying                         
  Amendment 1 was simply a variation of Rep. Phillips'                         
  proposal and changing from a four year tenure review to a                    
  three year tenure review.                                                    
  Number 265                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS reiterated her concern about the legislature                   
  telling the school districts how to do business.                             
  Number 280                                                                   
  REP. JAMES said she did not feel that the Judiciary                          
  committee substitute (CS) nor the amendment to the CS                        
  addressed the problem of teacher evaluation and she would                    
  rather vote for the original bill.                                           
  Number 302                                                                   
  REP. CLIFF DAVIDSON asked Rep. James if she felt HB 84 was                   
  not necessary.                                                               
  Number 423                                                                   
  REP. JAMES said she did not feel that changing tenure from                   
  two years to four years would make any difference at all and                 
  that the problem was with the term "tenure."  She went on to                 
  say she felt there should be a relationship between teachers                 
  and the school district that better defines and identifies                   
  what is a good teacher.  In addition, she said that she felt                 
  there needed to be an ongoing evaluation of teachers, and                    
  tenure does not provide that opportunity and therefore she                   
  was opposed to tenure.                                                       
  Number 449                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON commented that more is being asked of teachers                 
  in terms of service, but less is provided in terms of                        
  resources.  In addition, teachers live in a very political                   
  environment, and because of this he felt that tenure was                     
  Number 460                                                                   
  REP. JAMES commented that teachers are one of the most                       
  important employees in the state.  She further noted that                    
  tenure is not working because there is no communication                      
  between parents, teachers, and school boards.                                
  REP. NORDLUND clarified that the issue at hand was Amendment                 
  1.  He further clarified the amendment by stating that                       
  changing the tenure from four years to three years would                     
  assure the evaluations will be done as well and be less of a                 
  burden on administrators.  He asked SHEILA PETERSON if there                 
  is currently a evaluation training in place.                                 
  Number 514                                                                   
  SHEILA PETERSON, Legislative Liaison, Department of                          
  Education, said there was not currently an evaluation                        
  training in place.                                                           
  REP. NORDLUND asked what the fiscal impact of the amendment                  
  would be.                                                                    
  Number 535                                                                   
  MS. PETERSON said that anytime a department implements any                   
  kind of training it will have a significant fiscal impact.                   
  Currently the department does not have any trained                           
  professionals in the area of evaluation.                                     
  Number 542                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND offered an amendment to Amendment 1 to delete                  
  Section 8, removing the evaluation training provision.                       
  Number 551                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON said that in order to get to the real tenure                   
  issue a statewide evaluation process must be established.                    
  He said he would vote for the amendment to the amendment but                 
  questioned whether or not the committee was doing the right                  
  thing.  He added that without a uniform way of doing                         
  evaluations, a teacher could be unfairly treated.                            
  Number 599                                                                   
  The amendment to the amendment to delete Section 8 from                      
  Amendment 1 passed without objection.                                        
  Number 600                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER said he did not intend to vote for the                          
  amendment because the issue being addressed was already set                  
  out in statute and the issue was not that evaluations were                   
  not being done but how they were being done.                                 
  CHAIR PORTER also said that we live in a very diverse state                  
  and an amendment laying out specifics as in Amendment 1                      
  would not be applicable for all communities.                                 
  Number 671                                                                   
  A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 1.                                   
  NO:   Kott, Phillips, Green, James, Porter.                                  
  YES:  Davidson and Nordlund.                                                 
  Amendment 1 failed to pass.                                                  
  Number 702                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON offered Amendment 2, which provides that                       
  teachers receive tenure after two years, but if they are not                 
  fully tenured by the fourth year and still retained, tenure                  
  would be automatic.                                                          
  REP. PHILLIPS objected.  A roll call vote was taken.                         
  NO:   Kott, Phillips, Green, James, Porter.                                  
  YES:  Davidson and Nordlund.                                                 
  Amendment 2 failed.                                                          
  CHAIR PORTER announced that CSHB 84(JUD) was before the                      
  committee and asked for any further discussion.                              
  CSHB 84:  "An Act relating to grants for the improvement of                  
  school performance and to teacher tenure rights; and                         
  providing for an effective date."                                            
  Number 732                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON said that the contents of CSHB 84(JUD)                         
  regarding tenure were unfair in that teachers spend a great                  
  deal of time going to school to become certified and it was                  
  his contention that an additional four years to wait for                     
  tenure was too much.                                                         
  Number 762                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND said he felt that CSHB 84(JUD) was an                          
  improvement to the HESS version, but maintained that going                   
  from two years to four years was too big a step.  He added                   
  that the problem with evaluations would only be made worse                   
  by having teachers evaluated in the fourth year instead of                   
  the second year and this would be an injustice to the                        
  students as well as the teacher.                                             
  REP. NORDLUND went on to say that he hoped the Finance                       
  Committee would consider the idea of the three year tenure.                  
  REP. NORDLUND said he would not maintain his objection to                    
  move the bill out.                                                           
  Number 782                                                                   
  REP. JOE GREEN said he intended to vote in favor of the                      
  current bill, but added that he had a problem with the                       
  removal of the removal provision.                                            
  Number 792                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER said that he would vote in favor of CSHB
  84(JUD), but reluctantly.  He added that it was not the job                  
  of the legislature to deal with labor/management                             
  Number 811                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS said she was disappointed that since the                       
  governor put forth the education reform bill that the                        
  legislature has narrowed it down to two issues, one issuing                  
  grants and one extending tenure.                                             
  Number 818                                                                   
  REP. JAMES also expressed disappointment and concurred with                  
  Rep. Phillips.                                                               
  Number 835                                                                   
  REP. PETE KOTT expressed his disappointment and echoed                       
  comments of Rep. Phillips and Chair Porter.  He added that                   
  he would not support CSHB 84(JUD).                                           
  Number 849                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON said he felt the bill played to politics                       
  rather than to individual's integrity.                                       
  Number 860                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS motioned to move CSHB 84(JUD) with individual                  
  recommendations and attached fiscal notes.                                   
  NO:   Kott, Davidson.                                                        
  YES:  Nordlund, Phillips, Green, James, Porter.                              
  CSHB 84(JUD) was passed out of committee with individual                     
  recommendations and attached fiscal notes.                                   
  HB 351 - PERMIT TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS                                   
  Number 885                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER announced that HB 351 would be heard next and                   
  that there was a committee substitute before the committee.                  
  He asked ERIC MUSSER to come forward to speak to the changes                 
  in HB 351.                                                                   
  TAPE 94-47, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 022                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked if it was Chair Porter's intention to                    
  move the bill from committee.                                                
  Number 040                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER said that it was his intent to try to move the                  
  bill and pointed out that there had been a great deal of                     
  public testimony taken in the State Affairs Committee.                       
  REP. NORDLUND said he was concerned about being able to                      
  understand the bill.                                                         
  Number 139                                                                   
  ERIC MUSSER, Staff, Rep. Brian Porter, addressed CSHB 351.                   
  He said on line 1 the title was amended, replacing handgun                   
  for concealed weapon.  He explained that:                                    
  Section 1:  provides for an affirmative defense.                             
  Section 2, line 10:  "and locked" was added.                                 
  Section 3:  stayed the same as the original bill.                            
  Section 4:  the following requirements were added --                         
  applicants must submit two complete sets of fingerprints;                    
  provide two frontal view color photographs; must provide a                   
  valid Alaska drivers license; and be physically and mentally                 
  capable to carry a concealed handgun safely.                                 
  Additional changes were made with regard to the issuing of a                 
  permit:  a thirty day waiting period was added to replace                    
  the language that would allow for immediate issuance of a                    
  Under subsection 9(c), a permit would be valid for three                     
  years, replacing the five year provision in the original                     
  Page 3, line 23, qualifications:                                             
  Line 28:  "...has not been convicted of" was added; and the                  
  misdemeanor offense was added.  A list of these misdemeanors                 
  are on file.                                                                 
  Under the residency requirement on page 4, line 11:  ninety                  
  days was added to replace one year.                                          
  Page 4, line 27:  "involuntary" was added.                                   
  Under the application section on page 5, line 11:  "physical                 
  residence" was added; and on line 13, "Alaska state driver's                 
  license or identification card number" was added to the list                 
  of information needed on the application.                                    
  Page 5, line 17:  the provision was added that an applicant                  
  must provide a demonstrated need for the permit.                             
  Page 6, line 2:  it was added that any other information                     
  could be added to the list of application requirements that                  
  the department deemed necessary.                                             
  Page 6, under demonstration of competence, line 6:  "is                      
  approved by the department" was added; and on line 7, "The                   
  certificate must state the type and size of handguns the                     
  applicant has demonstrated competence with." was added.                      
  Further language was added that restricted the applicant to                  
  carry only the handguns outlined in the above provisions.                    
  Additional provision were added as follows:                                  
  The permittee must demonstrate knowledge of Alaska law                       
  relating to firearms and the use of deadly force as well as                  
  demonstrate competence with each type and size handgun they                  
  wish to carry.                                                               
  Line 19:  a permittee must undergo a refresher coarse every                  
  six years.                                                                   
  Line 26:   the department shall establish a fee based on the                 
  actual costs incurred to issue the permit and process                        
  Under the renewal section, page 7, line 10:  a permittee                     
  must submit two frontal photographs and a single thumb                       
  Under replacement of permit, page 7, line 24:  same                          
  provisions as outlined in line 10.                                           
  Under suspension of permit, page 8, line 4:  it was added                    
  that an individual under an injunction under AS 25.35.010 -                  
  25.35.020  (domestic violence restraining order) would not                   
  be eligible for a permit.                                                    
  Under revocation of permit, page 8, line 30:  a permittee is                 
  allowed to appeal revocation to the Commissioner of Public                   
  Under liability, page 9, line 4:  a line added officers and                  
  employees to the list of those not liable for actions of the                 
  permittee for which they served.                                             
  Under possession and display, page 9, line 21:  provided a                   
  definition for "contacted by a peace officer" and outlined                   
  the result of a violation of that section.                                   
  Under places where permittee may not possess concealed                       
  handgun:  "school grounds", (8) "a municipality or                           
  established village that has prohibited the possession of                    
  concealed handguns..." was added.                                            
  Page 10, line 10:  establishes penalty for a Class B                         
  Under misuse of permit, page 10, line 12:  the penalty was                   
  set forth as a Class A misdemeanor.                                          
  Under responsibility of permittee, page 10, line 27:  it was                 
  added that a permittee may only carry the type and size of                   
  concealed hand gun with which the holder had demonstrated                    
  competency.  If this section is violated it would be                         
  punishable by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars.                   
  Page 11, line 5, under regulations:  provides authority to                   
  the Department of Public Safety to implement regulations.                    
  Page 11, line 7, under prohibition:  there was a new section                 
  establishing the ballot question for a village or a                          
  municipality to opt out.                                                     
  Page 11 establishes a section to outline the procedure of a                  
  village or municipality in which to opt out.                                 
  Page 12, line 16:  the definition for concealed handgun was                  
  added.  Excluded from the definition were shotguns, rifles,                  
  derringers or other miniature handguns.                                      
  Number 396                                                                   
  REP. JEANNETTE JAMES, Prime Sponsor of HB 351, said that she                 
  felt a permitting system for carrying a concealed weapon was                 
  needed in the state because people are carrying them now and                 
  may not be legal.  Secondly, with the increase in crime rate                 
  and less funds to support an adequate police force, a right                  
  to carry a concealed handgun was a matter of public safety.                  
  The bill also requires training which provides for gun                       
  safety.  She continued to summarize the bill, echoing the                    
  comments made by Mr. Musser.                                                 
  REP. JAMES said she felt the most important part of the bill                 
  was the provision stating the demonstration of competency                    
  with the concealed weapon.  She added that this provision                    
  was very important because it states the permittee must also                 
  have knowledge of and understand the laws outlining gun                      
  She said she supported the CSHB 351(JUD).                                    
  Number 475                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked if the tracking of the permits would be                  
  done by the department.                                                      
  Number 480                                                                   
  REP. JAMES responded yes, the tracking would be done by the                  
  Number 490                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON said that he felt it was important that the                    
  local communities do the tracking.                                           
  Number 500                                                                   
  REP. JAMES said that Rep. Davidson's concerns had been                       
  addressed when deliberating on the bill previously.  The                     
  concern was equal treatment.  She said it was better to have                 
  uniformity and that could be done by the department and not                  
  necessarily be possible to do that with all the different                    
  communities.  She went on to say that a list of all permit                   
  holders would be available for each community.                               
  Number 510                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER brought up another related issue that some Bush                 
  communities were not in favor of this bill because the                       
  village public safety officers (VPSO) do not carry a fire                    
  arm.  The addition of the opt out provision was a result of                  
  this concern.                                                                
  Number 530                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND said he felt that the opt out provision was                    
  set up to fail because the people in the community would all                 
  vote for carrying concealed weapons and the one VPSO would                   
  vote against.                                                                
  Number 535                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER said he was encouraged from the testimony                       
  around the state that villages are looking more towards the                  
  advice and counsel of their elders.                                          
  Number 549                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND restated and maintained his concern.                           
  Number 554                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER noted there was nothing precluding someone from                 
  carrying a firearm now.                                                      
  Number 558                                                                   
  REP. JAMES commented that there is a stringent list of                       
  requirements, qualifications and training a permittee has to                 
  meet before receiving a permit.  In light of that, she felt                  
  that these people would not be a threat to the VPSO.                         
  Number 571                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked why the municipalities didn't decide for                 
  themselves ("opting in") the possibility of having concealed                 
  weapons in their community.                                                  
  Number 581                                                                   
  REP. JAMES said she felt that if that happened there would                   
  not be equality.                                                             
  Number 591                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked if there was any discussion about                        
  liability insurance.                                                         
  REP. JAMES said that it had been discussed, but there was no                 
  valid reason concluding that insurance would be provided,                    
  and it was a personal option.  She went on to say that in                    
  other states where concealed weapon permits are allowed,                     
  there is only a small percentage of accidental shootings.                    
  REP. DAVIDSON commented that there was no psychological                      
  profile provision in the bill.                                               
  Number 643                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS asked why the residency requirement was                        
  changed from one year to 90 days.                                            
  Number 647                                                                   
  MR. MUSSER said this was simply conforming to other                          
  provisions within the bill.                                                  
  Number 655                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS asked about the potential problem of moving                    
  around the state and moves from a community that allows a                    
  concealed weapons permit to a village that has opted out of                  
  the provision.                                                               
  Number 662                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER said the Department of Public Safety would                      
  provide a list of those communities that opt out to the                      
  permittee and that it is required of a permittee to know all                 
  Alaskan laws regarding a concealed weapon.                                   
  Number 682                                                                   
  MR. MUSSER referenced page 10, line 19, under permittee                      
  responsibilities -- a permittee will be given a copy of the                  
  law and they must sign a statement saying they understand                    
  the provisions of the law.  It is also required of the                       
  permittee that they notify the department within thirty days                 
  of any change of address.                                                    
  Number 692                                                                   
  There was general discussion regarding the statement of                      
  "mentally and physically capable."                                           
  Number 749                                                                   
  REP. JAMES commented that there was a certification process                  
  approved by the department and through that process the                      
  department would most likely have the ability to see if the                  
  person was not mentally or physically capable.                               
  Number 796                                                                   
  REP. JAMES asked how proficiency would be measured.                          
  Number 805                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER said that it would part of the regulations.                     
  Number 820                                                                   
  REP. GREEN referenced page 6, line 27, regarding "actual                     
  costs" to the department and asked if it was the intent of                   
  the revision that the amount reflected in the fiscal note                    
  would actually come out of fees charged.                                     
  Number 828                                                                   
  REP. JAMES said that the committee could disregard the State                 
  Affairs fiscal note and the intent of the Judiciary                          
  committee substitute was to be revenue neutral.                              
  Number 831                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS referenced page 3, line 14-17, the section                     
  that provides for a retired police officer to be exempt from                 
  permit fees.                                                                 
  Number 837                                                                   
  REP. JAMES said she had an amendment to delete that section.                 
  Number 849                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND asked about the "demonstrated need" provision.                 
  It was noted that there was an amendment by Rep. James to                    
  deal with that concern.  In addition, Rep. Nordlund asked                    
  for clarification regarding where handguns were not allowed                  
  and specifically asked about adding banks, bars and schools                  
  to the list.                                                                 
  Number 855                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER said that these institutions were included in                   
  the existing law.                                                            
  Number 867                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND asked for clarification of the "suspension of                  
  permit" provisions and the provisions of a violation of this                 
  section.  Specifically, he asked what would be the result if                 
  a person had not recertified or if an individual had lied on                 
  their application.                                                           
  Number  880                                                                  
  CHAIR PORTER addressed the concerns by referencing the                       
  section on revocation of license and noted that if a person                  
  lied on an application their permit would be revoked.                        
  Number 886                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND asked what the position of the Department of                   
  Public Safety was.                                                           
  TAPE 94-48, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  SGT. DAN LOWDEN, Department of Public Safety, said the                       
  department opposed HB 351 in principle for two reasons:  (1)                 
  the current laws provide enough for people to protect                        
  themselves; and (2) the department had concerns about the                    
  safety of the public at large.                                               
  REP. NORDLUND asked if in fact the provisions in the law                     
  would create a safer environment.                                            
  Number 093                                                                   
  SGT. LOWDEN said he didn't see that there was a need for HB
  351.  He said he had not seen a lot of illegal activity                      
  regarding concealed weapons.  In addition, the training                      
  requirements are such that he didn't know if the department                  
  could place them on the public.                                              
  REP. JAMES commented that perhaps the reason that the                        
  department has not had problems with those carrying                          
  concealed weapons is because those who carry them do not                     
  break the law.                                                               
  Number 121                                                                   
  SGT. LOWDEN agreed and clarified his point by saying that                    
  because he had not found those breaking the law he didn't                    
  see the need for a new law.                                                  
  Number 146                                                                   
  REP. GREEN asked about Florida's concealed weapons law and                   
  said there is information to show that since the inception                   
  of a concealed weapons law the crime rate has gone down.                     
  Number 155                                                                   
  REP. LOWDEN said he didn't agree with the statement                          
  regarding crime rate going down.  He said the statistics the                 
  Department had show that violent crime has continued to                      
  Number 214                                                                   
  REP. JAMES said that the statistics may reflect the influx                   
  of tourists into that community.                                             
  MR. LOWDEN commented that Alaska is also a tourist state.                    
  Number 231                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked Mr. Lowden to speculate how many permits                 
  may be applied for and asked if this was reflected in the                    
  fiscal note.                                                                 
  Number 243                                                                   
  MR. LOWDEN said the fiscal note was based on a four percent                  
  of the population applying.  The numbers were based on data                  
  from Florida, Washington and Oregon.  In addition, he said                   
  the figures were also an attempt to keep the fiscal note                     
  revenue neutral.                                                             
  Number 279                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked if, in general, the state of Alaska has                  
  more people carrying firearms.                                               
  Number 286                                                                   
  MR. LOWDEN said he did not know of any quantitative study                    
  that addressed that issue.                                                   
  Number 320                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS asked if the department would add to the list                  
  of qualifications outlined in this bill if the department                    
  was writing the bill.                                                        
  Number 325                                                                   
  MR. LOWDEN said that the department would not support the                    
  bill at all.  However, he said it may have been better to                    
  say that a person convicted of a felony in a given time                      
  period would not be eligible for a permit.  He also added                    
  that the list in the bill is standard for this type of                       
  Number 372                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked the department would measure "knowledge"                 
  with regard to use of a handgun.                                             
  Number 380                                                                   
  MR. LOWDEN said the National Rifle Association personal                      
  protection course includes proficiency, safety and legal                     
  issues.  This is a standard test that the department would                   
  most likely use.                                                             
  Number 407                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER asked if it would be required that an                           
  individual have a successful completion of the course rather                 
  than just attendance.                                                        
  Number 410                                                                   
  MR. LOWDEN said yes and added that it would be established                   
  in statute.                                                                  
  Number 428                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked if the department would feel more                        
  comfortable with a sunset provision in the bill.                             
  Number 448                                                                   
  MR. LOWDEN said the sunset provision was not addressed.                      
  Number 449                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked the Chairman if the idea of a sunset                     
  provision was addressed.                                                     
  Number 457                                                                   
  REP. JAMES said that no sunset provision was addressed and                   
  it was her feeling that once a law is on the books it should                 
  stay there and she did not support the idea of a sunset                      
  Number 460                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND asked Sgt. Lowden if the crime rate would be                   
  impacted by the passage of this law.                                         
  Number 477                                                                   
  MR. LOWDEN said the department, in researching the issue,                    
  found Oregon, Florida and California to be comparable and it                 
  was found that having a concealed weapons law did not have                   
  an impact on crime in those states.                                          
  REP. JAMES moved Amendment 1, which would remove                             
  "demonstrated need" on page 5, lines 17-18.  This amendment                  
  would remove the provision that an applicant provide a                       
  demonstrated need to carry a concealed handgun.                              
  CHAIR PORTER said he would prefer that it be left in because                 
  studies show that of fifteen states researched, with this                    
  type of legislation, eight had a "demonstrated need"                         
  Number 577                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND opposed the amendment because he felt that the                 
  definition of "demonstrated need" was broad enough.  In                      
  addition, he said he felt an individual should have to                       
  express a need for the permit.                                               
  Number 582                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS aired a concern about the removal of                           
  "demonstrated need."                                                         
  Number 593                                                                   
  REP. JAMES made a motion to adopt CSHB 351(JUD) dated                        
  3/18/94.  With no objection, CSHB 351(JUD) was adopted.                      
  Number 610                                                                   
  A roll call vote was taken on Amendment 1.                                   
  NO:   Nordlund, Davidson, Porter.                                            
  YES:  Kott, Phillips, Green, James.                                          
  Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                     
  REP. JAMES offered Amendment 2, which would delete all                       
  material on page 3, lines 12-22, thereby removing the                        
  provision giving retired police officers free permits; and                   
  on page 12, lines 11-14, deletes all material thereby                        
  removing the definition of alcohol.                                          
  Number 633                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON asked to divide the question.  There was no                    
  objection to dividing the question.  Amendment 2 was before                  
  the committee to delete page 3, lines 12-22.                                 
  Number 647                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON said that perhaps this section would be better                 
  left in, given the current situation with dwindling                          
  resources to fund more police officers; at least the state                   
  could provide a free permit to arm them.                                     
  Number 658                                                                   
  REP. KOTT said he did not feel that a retired police officer                 
  should have that benefit.                                                    
  Number 665                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON maintained his objection and a roll call vote                  
  was taken.                                                                   
  NO:   Davidson.                                                              
  YES:  Nordlund, Phillips, Green, Kott, James, Porter.                        
  Amendment 2 was adopted.                                                     
  Number 678                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER announced that Amendment 3 was before the                       
  committee on page 12, lines 11-14, to delete all materials.                  
  He said the purpose of the amendment is to remove the                        
  definition of alcohol.                                                       
  Number 679                                                                   
  Amendment 3 was moved and adopted without objection.                         
  Number 680                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER asked the wish of the committee.                                
  Number 685                                                                   
  REP. DAVIDSON said he would like to hear more public input.                  
  Number 693                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS moved CSHB 351(JUD) with individual                            
  Number 700                                                                   
  REP. KOTT said he supported moving the bill out.                             
  Number 710                                                                   
  REP. GREEN said he had some grave concerns about the bill                    
  but he heard overwhelming support for it from his                            
  constituents and therefore would support it.                                 
  Number 718                                                                   
  CHAIR PORTER said he was concerned about people carrying a                   
  concealed firearm, but he would support moving the bill from                 
  Number 720                                                                   
  A roll call vote was taken on CSHB 351(JUD).  The bill                       
  passed unanimously.                                                          
  CHAIR PORTER adjourned the meeting at 3:45 p.m.                              
  BILL(S) NOT HEARD TODAY:                                                     
  HB 420 - LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANIES                                         
  HB 392 - PERMANENT FUND DIVIDEND PROGRAM                                     
  HB 518 - EXTEND ALASKA BAR ASSOCIATION                                       
  SB 151 - OIL & GAS EXPLORATION INCENTIVE CREDITS                             

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