Legislature(1993 - 1994)

01/21/1994 01:15 PM JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                        January 21, 1994                                       
                            1:15 p.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Rep. Brian Porter, Chairman                                                  
  Rep. Jeannette James, Vice-Chair (arrived later)                             
  Rep. Pete Kott (arrived 1:35 p.m.)                                           
  Rep. Gail Phillips                                                           
  Rep. Joe Green                                                               
  Rep. Cliff Davidson, absent                                                  
  Rep. Jim Nordlund (arrived 1:23 p.m.)                                        
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
  OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT                                                    
  Sen. Dave Donley                                                             
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  HB 49     "An Act relating to facsimile absentee ballot                      
            application and facsimile absentee voting."                        
            HEARD AND HELD FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION                           
  *HJR 45   Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the                  
            State of Alaska relating to education.                             
            HEARD AND HELD FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION                           
  SCR 4     Relating to the Alaska Supreme Court's                             
            interpretation Alaska Rule of Civil Procedure 82                   
            and requesting that the court modify its                           
            interpretation of that rule.                                       
            HELD UNTIL WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 26, 1994                             
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  REP. AL VEZEY                                                                
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 102                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99811                                                        
  Phone:  465-3719                                                             
  Position Statement:  testified on HB 49 as Chairman of the                   
                       House State Affairs Committee; and                      
                       testified as Prime Sponsor of HJR 45                    
  TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Aide                                               
  Rep. Terry Martin's Office                                                   
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 411                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska  99811                                                        
  Phone:  465-3719                                                             
  Position Statement:  Testified on behalf of the Prime                        
                       of HB 49                                                
  JACK CHENOWETH, Legal Counsel                                                
  Division of Legal Services                                                   
  Legislative Affairs Agency                                                   
  130 Seward Street                                                            
  Juneau, Alaska  99811                                                        
  Phone:  465-2450                                                             
  Position Statement:  Testified regarding legal opinion of                    
                       HB 49                                                   
  DANIEL CAMPBELL                                                              
  P.O. Box 290                                                                 
  Seward, Alaska  99664                                                        
  Phone:  224-8985                                                             
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HJR 45                            
  VALERIE MAXWELL                                                              
  P.O. Box 3701                                                                
  Seward, Alaska  99664                                                        
  Phone:  224-8689                                                             
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HJR 45                            
  VALERIE HAUER                                                                
  P.O. Box 1315                                                                
  Petersburg, Alaska  99833                                                    
  Phone:  772-3408                                                             
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HJR 45                            
  DUANE GUILEY                                                                 
  Department of Education                                                      
  801 W. 10th St., Suite 200                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska  99811                                                        
  Phone:  465-8679                                                             
  Position Statement:  Answered question on HJR 45                             
  DAWN GROSSMAN                                                                
  P.O. Box 1284                                                                
  Delta Junction, Alaska  99737                                                
  Phone:  895-1910                                                             
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HJR 45                            
  SHERRIE GOLL                                                                 
  Alaska Women's Lobby                                                         
  P.O. Box 22156                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska  99802                                                        
  Phone:  463-6744                                                             
  Position Statement:  Testified in opposition to HJR 45                       
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB  49                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: ABSENTEE BALLOTING BY FAX                                       
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Brice                                   
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/13/93        52    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/13/93        53    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS,JUDICIARY,FINANCE                  
  01/20/93       117    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): BRICE                              
  01/28/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  01/28/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  01/30/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  01/30/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/09/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/11/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/11/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  02/13/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/18/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  02/18/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/02/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  03/02/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/04/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  03/04/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/05/93       541    (H)   STA RPT  CS(STA) NEW TITLE                       
                              1DP 1DNP 5NR                                     
  03/05/93       541    (H)   DP: VEZEY                                        
  03/05/93       541    (H)   DNP: ULMER                                       
  03/05/93       541    (H)   NR: B.DAVIS,OLBERG, G.DAVIS,                     
  03/05/93       541    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE  (GOV)  3/5/93                      
  04/21/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  01/19/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  HJR 45                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: CONTROL & FUNDING OF PUB & PVT SCHOOLS                          
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) VEZEY,Sanders,James                            
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/03/94      2006    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/10/94      2006    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/10/94      2006    (H)   JUDICIARY                                        
  01/12/94      2041    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS                            
  01/13/94      2053    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): JAMES                              
  01/21/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  SCR  4                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: REQUEST CHANGE IN RULE 82 FEES                                  
  SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) TAYLOR                                                
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  03/29/93       974    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/29/93       974    (S)   JUDICIARY                                        
  04/05/93              (S)   JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  04/06/93              (S)   JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  04/12/93              (S)   JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  04/12/93              (S)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  04/12/93              (S)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  04/13/93      1331    (S)   JUD RPT  3DP 1NR                                 
  04/13/93      1331    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTE (S.JUD)                         
  04/14/93              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  04/16/93      1440    (S)   RULES RPT  3CAL 1NR   4/16/93                    
  04/16/93      1449    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME  SCR 4                      
  04/16/93      1449    (S)   PASSED Y11 N9                                    
  04/16/93      1449    (S)   DUNCAN NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                 
  04/18/93      1462    (S)   HELD ON RECONSIDERATION TO                       
  04/19/93      1554    (S)   RECONSIDERATION TAKEN UP                         
  04/19/93      1554    (S)   PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y11 N9                 
  04/19/93      1555    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                               
  04/20/93      1346    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  04/20/93      1346    (H)   JUDICIARY                                        
  04/23/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  04/23/93              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  01/21/94              (H)   JUD AT 01:15 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 94-6, SIDE A                                                            
  Number 000                                                                   
  The House Judiciary Standing Committee was called to order                   
  at 1:20 p.m. on January 21, 1994.  Members present were                      
  Reps. Phillips, Green, and Porter.  Rep. Nordlund arrived at                 
  1:24 p.m.                                                                    
  CHAIRMAN PORTER explained that the committee would not be                    
  hearing SCR 4 (Request for a Change in Rule 82 Fees) because                 
  of a scheduling problem.  He said it would be heard next                     
  Wednesday.  Chairman Porter announced that the committee                     
  would take up HB 49 first.                                                   
  HB 49 - ABSENTEE BALLOTING BY FAX                                            
  Number 049                                                                   
  REP. AL VEZEY, Chairman of House State Affairs Committee,                    
  testified that HB 49 had been heard extensively in the House                 
  State Affairs Committee and had gotten the endorsement from                  
  the Division of Elections that the bill is workable.  He                     
  said there is debate over the fiscal note, not that the                      
  fiscal note is not accurate, rather how you would exercise                   
  your options as far as buying equipment and hiring people.                   
  REP. VEZEY said the purpose of the bill relates to where you                 
  have certain people in the service of their country,                         
  primarily in the military, others in the diplomatic service,                 
  and others of a similar nature who are in essence                            
  disenfranchised by the geographical locations of their                       
  assignments.  He added that HB 49 would eliminate that by                    
  using communications, and there is sufficient protection                     
  there to prevent fraud, although what is sacrificed is the                   
  secrecy of the ballot.                                                       
  Number 098                                                                   
  REP. PORTER said there seems to be some conflict with the                    
  constitution as it regards secrecy.  He asked if the issue                   
  of secrecy being waived by an individual voter was addressed                 
  in House State Affairs.                                                      
  Number 115                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY answered yes, and explained that it is not public                 
  information, so there is still privacy involved, but at                      
  least one public official on each end would have access to                   
  the ballot.                                                                  
  Number 128                                                                   
  REP. GREEN asked about adequately safeguarding against fraud                 
  and asked Rep. Vezey how this would work.                                    
  Number 146                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY responded that HB 49 is silent on that issue, and                 
  it would be worked out administratively.                                     
  Number 162                                                                   
  REP. GREEN expressed concern that there are alleged                          
  improprieties even in the system we have.  He said it could                  
  lead to a chance of greater improprieties that currently                     
  Number 186                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY replied that the State Affairs Committee had                      
  asked similar questions, and the level and opportunity for                   
  impropriety was very marginal.                                               
  Number 200                                                                   
  REP. GREEN referred to the fiscal note of $31,000 and asked                  
  for an explanation of the cost.                                              
  Number 205                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY responded that it was a fiscal note from the                      
  Division of Elections and he really couldn't say what the                    
  actual expenses would be.                                                    
  Number 216                                                                   
  REP. GREEN said the only reason he brought it up was because                 
  a fiscal note would indicate that there are going to be                      
  additional expenditures, perhaps, and asked if those might                   
  then escalate.                                                               
  Number 220                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY replied that the House State Affairs Committee                    
  could have justified a zero fiscal note.                                     
  Number 242                                                                   
  TOM ANDERSON, Legislative Aide to Representative Terry                       
  Martin, Prime Sponsor of HB 49, testified that they had                      
  worked with the Department of Defense with the main purpose                  
  of assisting the military, but also other absentee voters                    
  outside of Alaska or the United States.  He stated the main                  
  idea is that an individual can fax a request for and receive                 
  by fax an application, complete an application, and fax that                 
  back to the Division of Elections, then have a ballot faxed                  
  backed, mark the ballot, and fax the completed ballot back                   
  to the Division of Elections if you are out of the United                    
  States.  Mr. Anderson went on to say that if you are in the                  
  United States and an individual's application comes within                   
  the legitimate time, which is postmarked seven days prior to                 
  the election, and the Division of Elections feels it cannot                  
  send out the ballot in time, then they can opt to fax the                    
  ballot if you are in the United States but out of Alaska.                    
  He added that you must then send the faxed ballot back                       
  through the mail.  Mr. Anderson explained that the only way                  
  an individual would be sending a faxed ballot is if he/she                   
  was out of the United States.                                                
  MR. ANDERSON then cited statistics supporting the concept of                 
  HB 49, discussed how it works in other states that have                      
  already passed similar legislation, and referred to a legal                  
  opinion by Jack Chenoweth, Legislative Counsel for the                       
  Legislative Affairs Agency, Division of Legal Services                       
  addressing the secrecy issue.                                                
  Number 322                                                                   
  REP. PORTER addressed the requirement to the Division of                     
  Elections to start this process on something that was                        
  postmarked seven days before, not necessarily received                       
  within the seven days.                                                       
  Number 330                                                                   
  MR. ANDERSON responded that the requirement was not a                        
  problem to the sponsor.                                                      
  Number 333                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS noted that in the information back-up on the                   
  bill there were no opinion papers from municipal clerks, and                 
  asked if a position paper had been requested from them.                      
  Number 340                                                                   
  MR. ANDERSON replied that he had not.                                        
  Number 345                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS requested that he do so.                                       
  Number 353                                                                   
  REP. PORTER said in reviewing Jack Chenoweth's opinion, he                   
  noted that Montana has a close or similar constitution                       
  provision as Alaska relating to privacy, and Montana doesn't                 
  seem to have had a problem with the secrecy aspect of the                    
  Number 372                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS referred to Mr. Chenoweth's opinion, wherein                   
  it states that if the current director of the Division of                    
  Elections wants to make changes to the deadline provision,                   
  it is allowable.  Rep. Phillips asked if that had been                       
  specifically discussed in the committee substitute for HB
  Number 382                                                                   
  REP. PORTER replied that it had not.                                         
  Number 384                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY indicated that his recollection was that the                      
  House State Affairs Committee had debated that issue at                      
  Number 389                                                                   
  MR. ANDERSON explained that the original bill had a two day                  
  postmarked deadline, and presently it's four days in law,                    
  and the committee substitute changed it to seven days                        
  Number 394                                                                   
  REP. PORTER recommended holding HB 49 until position papers                  
  had been received from the municipal clerk's.                                
  Number 415                                                                   
  JACK CHENOWETH, Legal Counsel, Division of Legal Services,                   
  Legislative Affairs Agency, testified that in the time he                    
  had to go back through the file, and to quickly look at the                  
  states identified a year ago, he was able to find a close                    
  analogy to Montana, and he didn't see any problems that had                  
  been raised there.  He also noted that both Louisiana and                    
  Washington also had constitutionally explicit rights to                      
  privacy and it didn't stop them from adopting the same kind                  
  of approached.  Mr. Chenoweth added that Montana statutes                    
  were used as the model for HB 49.                                            
  Number 428                                                                   
  REP. PORTER said he would continue HB 49 to a date to be                     
  announced.  He then brought up HJR 45.                                       
  HJR 45 - CONTROL & FUNDING OF PUB & PVT SCHOOLS                              
  Number 454                                                                   
  REP. AL VEZEY, Prime Sponsor of HJR 45, testified that HJR
  45 came about this past summer when Attorney General Charlie                 
  Cole issued a legal opinion stating it was unconstitutional                  
  to use public funding for transportation of private school                   
  students.  Rep. Vezey researched the opinion and concluded                   
  that Attorney General Cole was 100 percent correct.  He said                 
  HJR 45 would eliminate two sentences in the constitution                     
  delegating responsibility to the judicial system relating to                 
  public funding of private schools, and if the public votes                   
  in favor of HJR 45, then funding of education simply reverts                 
  back to the legislative branch and the administration                        
  branch, and removes the judicial branch from having                          
  Number 521                                                                   
  DANIEL CAMPBELL testified via teleconference from Seward in                  
  support of HJR 45, stating that it should be an option for                   
  the legislature.                                                             
  Number 541                                                                   
  VALERIE MAXWELL testified via teleconference from Seward in                  
  support of HJR 45, saying she would be pleased to see it                     
  move out of committee and before the voters.                                 
  Number 559                                                                   
  VALERIE HAUER testified via teleconference from Petersburg                   
  in favor of HJR 45, and asked for clarification of the word                  
  Number 577                                                                   
  DUANE GUILEY, Department of Education, stated that a                         
  simplistic definition of a public education institution                      
  would be one that offers educational opportunities to all                    
  students on a comparable basis, free of tuition and free of                  
  Number 583                                                                   
  VALERIE HAUER said she is interested in a voucher system                     
  similar to what they tried to put in in California.                          
  Number 592                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND said he had a few things he wanted to say                      
  about the bill before winding up here but, in terms of that                  
  definition, perhaps another addition to the definition of                    
  what a public education institution is that there is a                       
  governing body that is elected by the public that governs                    
  what goes on in that school, is accountable to the public,                   
  and therefore the tie back to the expenditure of funds to                    
  elected officials who are responsible for the expenditure of                 
  those funds, which you don't have in a private institution.                  
  Number 600                                                                   
  REP. PORTER said to a degree, if an institution is                           
  certified, it's under public control.  He asked if a private                 
  institution wanting to provide education to K through 12                     
  would have to meet certification requirements to qualify.                    
  Number 608                                                                   
  MR. GUILEY responded no, under current statute private                       
  schools that want to be accredited have to follow certain                    
  state statutes and regulations, but they are exempt from                     
  many other state statutes and regulations, one of which is                   
  the control of an elected governing body.                                    
  Number 621                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked if the state still provides certification                  
  requirements for those institutions.                                         
  Number 625                                                                   
  MR. GUILEY replied that the state provides minimum statutory                 
  guidelines and regulatory guidelines, but does not have a                    
  specific certification process.                                              
  MS. HAUER discussed home schooling and her concerns about                    
  the right to schooling choice.                                               
  Number 645                                                                   
  MR. GUILEY said that home schooling is available to all                      
  Number 650                                                                   
  MS. HAUER testified that she would like public school                        
  facilities available to her children during school hours,                    
  for use of equipment, pool, and so on.                                       
  Number 671                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS asked Ms. Hauer if she was under the state of                  
  Alaska curriculum.                                                           
  Number 677                                                                   
  MS. HAUER replied she was under the Christian Light                          
  curriculum out of Harrisburg, Virginia.                                      
  Number 680                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS inquired if she had any connection at all with                 
  the Alaska school system.                                                    
  Number 681                                                                   
  MS. HAUER replied no, but she would be looking into the                      
  state curriculum next year.                                                  
  Number 682                                                                   
  REP. GREEN asked if it was the case that home schooled                       
  children did not have access to public school facilities,                    
  and if not, why.                                                             
  Number 688                                                                   
  MR. GUILEY responded that each local school district                         
  establishes policy in relationship to access to the facility                 
  for children and parents of children who are not enrolled in                 
  the public school system.  He added that the Department of                   
  Education currently has out for public comment regulations                   
  that specifically allow for part time enrollment of students                 
  in classes such as chemistry, physics, physical education,                   
  and things that are not normally available in a home school                  
  Number 714                                                                   
  DAWN GROSSMAN testified via teleconference from Delta                        
  Junction in support of HJR 45.                                               
  Number 733                                                                   
  SHERRIE GOLL testified on behalf of the Alaska Women's Lobby                 
  (AWL) against HJR 45.  Ms. Goll said AWL believes in                         
  maintaining the separation of church and state.                              
  Number 760                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS commented that there is nothing in the                         
  legislation that says anything about private religious                       
  REP. PHILLIPS and Ms. Goll discussed whether HJR 45 would                    
  affect funding for private and religious schools.                            
  Number 784                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND said he thinks that if you are taking the                      
  words out of the constitution, you are taking a prohibition                  
  out of the constitution, you are by default endorsing it,                    
  saying therefore, it is o.k.  Rep. Nordlund said he thinks                   
  that is the way the court would interpret it, obviously,                     
  otherwise what would be the intent of this.  He asked who                    
  are the schools that would be getting this funding if they                   
  are not private schools?  He added that this is the                          
  practical reality, that is what the backup is, that's what                   
  the legislation history will read, and he thinks that is the                 
  way the court will interpret it.  Rep. Nordlund continued,                   
  saying the effect of HJR 45, if passed, would be private                     
  religious schools getting state money.                                       
  Number 795                                                                   
  REP. PORTER said his impression was that the effect of HJR
  45 would make the question open for consideration and                        
  legislation and appropriations, by removing the prohibition,                 
  but it would not perform those things, nor cause it to                       
  Number 802                                                                   
  MS. GOLL said the bill was introduced less than a week ago,                  
  and she didn't believe the public was aware this was                         
  REP. NORDLUND said there was no fiscal note from the                         
  Division of Elections.                                                       
  Number 827                                                                   
  REP. PORTER pointed out there was a fiscal note from the                     
  Division of Elections.                                                       
  Number 847                                                                   
  REP. PORTER closed the hearing for public testimony and                      
  entertained a motion.                                                        
  Number 849                                                                   
  REP. GREEN moved HJR 45 with individual recommendations.                     
  Number 852                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS asked Rep. Vezey for position papers from the                  
  Department of Law and Department of Education.                               
  Number 862                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY said he had not requested position papers.                        
  Number 866                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked if the Fairbanks transportation funding                    
  issue would be solved by this action.                                        
  TAPE 94-6, SIDE 2                                                            
  Number 000                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY said HJR 45 would eliminate the problem, but you                  
  have to go back and read the supreme court decisions.                        
  Number 020                                                                   
  REP. KOTT asked if other states use public dollars for                       
  transportation of private students.                                          
  Number 026                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY said that was his understanding, but he couldn't                  
  give any case examples.                                                      
  Number 031                                                                   
  REP. KOTT indicated that it was his recollection that there                  
  was a U.S. Supreme Court case in the early 80's that                         
  afforded states the opportunity to use public dollars to                     
  transport children.                                                          
  Number 060                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY said it was his understanding that using public                   
  dollars for this type of activity was the norm in most                       
  states, but Alaska has a relatively new constitution.                        
  Number 074                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked if there was a motion.                                     
  Number 080                                                                   
  REP. GREEN asked to withdraw his motion and asked for                        
  position papers from the Department of Education and                         
  Department of Law.                                                           
  Number 092                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND requested that the committee get a fiscal note                 
  from the Department of Education because Sherrie Goll made a                 
  good point that there's a limited amount of dollars                          
  available for education in this state, and if we have a                      
  whole group of new institutions competing for those dollars,                 
  there will be even less dollars for public institutions.                     
  Rep. Nordlund continued, saying that it will be a really                     
  difficult fiscal note to prepare, but he would like to get                   
  some notion of what it would cost.                                           
  Number 111                                                                   
  REP. PORTER said he was considering that there was an                        
  opportunity to save some money with HJR 45.  If the amount                   
  of money that went to a private institution per student was                  
  less than what it cost the public, it would save money,                      
  depending on which way you look at it.                                       
  Number 123                                                                   
  REP. NORDLUND commented that they should at least address                    
  that in the Finance Committee.  He said he had another                       
  request, and that basically he thinks this is a really                       
  radical bill because it will open up the floodgates for                      
  public education for any private school, conceivably any                     
  other kind of school in the state.  He added that his                        
  interpretation of that might be wrong; there might be other                  
  prohibitions either in the state or federal constitution                     
  against separation of church and state that would not allow                  
  that.  Rep. Nordlund said he doesn't think it is clear to                    
  the Judiciary Committee what the effect of this bill would                   
  be.  He said he would like to hear somebody testify to this                  
  act, some legal scholar or constitutional scholar or                         
  whatever who could come in and say how the courts would                      
  likely interpret this if enacted, and what would the effect                  
  be on our public education system.  He continued, saying he                  
  thinks it has far reaching affects, violating the                            
  fundamental doctrine that's the separation of church and                     
  state, and public funds should not be going to educational                   
  systems that are not accountable to the public.  Rep.                        
  Nordlund objected to putting public funds into private                       
  schools in which the public has no handle or accountability.                 
  REP. NORDLUND discussed other aspects including which                        
  religious schools would be eligible and the ramifications of                 
  approving one and denying another.                                           
  Number 177                                                                   
  REP. PORTER asked Rep. Vezey to get position papers from the                 
  Department of Education and the Department of Law.                           
  Number 187                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY said he didn't request any fiscal notes from any                  
  department other than Elections because there's no                           
  appropriation other than the cost of putting HJR 45 on the                   
  ballot, and unless the legislature decides to appropriate                    
  money, there is not a fiscal note that goes with this.                       
  REP. PORTER said he would guess that a position paper from                   
  the Department of Education would deal with that issue in                    
  any event, and he asked if it would be possible to get the                   
  position papers.                                                             
  Number 210                                                                   
  REP. VEZEY said he would be glad to request position papers                  
  from the departments.                                                        
  Number 212                                                                   
  REP. PORTER said he would hold the bill until the position                   
  papers were available and the committee members had a chance                 
  to look them over.                                                           
  Number 222                                                                   
  REP. KOTT asked DUANE GUILEY from the Department of                          
  Education to comment on whether or not the state public                      
  education system is providing any dollars at the present                     
  time, or any materials to private schools.                                   
  Number 234                                                                   
  MR. GUILEY replied, not at this time; however, the state                     
  provides a centralized correspondence study system which is                  
  open to all students in the state which does not require a                   
  tuition charge and provides textbooks and materials to                       
  students enrolled in the program.  He added that the                         
  students cannot be enrolled simultaneously in the local                      
  school system, so they must choose an option.                                
  Number 264                                                                   
  REP. PHILLIPS asked what percentage of home schooled                         
  children are not in the state correspondence study program.                  
  Number 272                                                                   
  MR. GUILEY stated about 500 students.                                        
  Number 292                                                                   
  REP. PORTER recognized that Senator Dave Donley was in the                   
  REP. PORTER said HJR 45 would be held over for further                       
  CHAIRMAN PORTER adjourned the meeting at 2:20 p.m.                           

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