Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/24/1993 01:00 PM House JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                         March 24, 1993                                        
                            1:00 p.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Representative Brian Porter, Chairman                                        
  Representative Jeannette James, Vice-Chair                                   
  Representative Pete Kott                                                     
  Representative Gail Phillips                                                 
  Representative Joe Green                                                     
  Representative Jim Nordlund                                                  
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
  Representative Cliff Davidson                                                
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  HB 136    "An Act relating to the offenses of driving while                  
            intoxicated and refusal to submit to a breath                      
            test; and providing for an effective date."                        
            CSHB 136 (JUD) PASSED OUT WITH A DO PASS                           
  HB 28     "An Act relating to the penalty for providing                      
            alcoholic beverages to a person under the age of                   
            21; and providing for an effective date."                          
            HEARD AND PLACED IN A SUBCOMMITTEE                                 
  HB 168    "An Act relating to multiple-beneficiary                           
            charitable gaming permits and door prizes for                      
            charitable gaming; and providing for an effective                  
            CSHB 168 (JUD) PASSED OUT WITH NO RECOMMENDATION                   
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  MARGOT KNUTH                                                                 
  Assistant Attorney General                                                   
  Department of Law                                                            
  Criminal Division                                                            
  P. O. Box 110300                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                    
  Phone:  465-3428                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 136; Discussed HB 28                       
  JUANITA HENSLEY                                                              
  Chief, Driver Services                                                       
  Division of Motor Vehicles                                                   
  Department of Public Safety                                                  
  P. O. Box 20020                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  Phone:  465-4335                                                             
  Position Statement:  Discussed HB 136                                        
  REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS                                                 
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 128                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  465-3424                                                             
  Position Statement:  Prime sponsor of HB 28                                  
  JEANNEANE HENRY                                                              
  1038 Dunton Street                                                           
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  225-2429                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 28                                         
  SUE PICKRELL                                                                 
  Drug Prevention Specialist                                                   
  Alaskans for Drug-Free Youth                                                 
  2417 Tongass Avenue                                                          
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  247-2273                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 28                                         
  LYNDA ADAMS, Executive Director                                              
  Alaskans for Drug-Free Youth                                                 
  2417 Tongass Avenue                                                          
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  247-2273                                                             
  Position Statement: Supported and suggested amendments to HB
  JOHN SALEMI                                                                  
  Public Defender Agency                                                       
  900 West Fifth Avenue, Suite 200                                             
  Anchorage, Alaska 99501-2090                                                 
  Phone:  279-7541                                                             
  Position Statement: Opposed HB 28; suggested alternatives                    
  DANA LATOUR                                                                  
  Special Assistant to the Commissioner                                        
  Department of Corrections                                                    
  P. O. Box 112000                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99811                                                         
  Phone:  465-3376                                                             
  Position Statement: Explained the fiscal note to HB 28                       
  JIM FISK                                                                     
  Bayside Fire Department                                                      
  P. O. Box 2968                                                               
  Kodiak, Alaska 99615                                                         
  Phone:  486-7088                                                             
  Position Statement:  Opposed HB 28; Supported HB 168                         
  REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES                                                    
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 204                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  465-4451                                                             
  Position Statement:  Prime sponsor of HB 168                                 
  GAYLE HORETSKI                                                               
  Committee Counsel                                                            
  House Judiciary Committee                                                    
  State Capitol, Room 120                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  465-6841                                                             
  Position Statement: Outlined components of CSHB 168 (JUD)                    
  JOHN HANSEN                                                                  
  Gaming Manager                                                               
  Division of Occupational Licensing                                           
  Department of Commerce and Economic Development                              
  P. O. Box 110806                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99811                                                         
  Phone:  465-2581                                                             
  Position Statement: Provided information related to HB 168                   
  RON PAGENKOPF                                                                
  Juneau Soccer Club                                                           
  613 West Willoughby Avenue                                                   
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  586-2027                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 168                                        
  GARRY LANGILLE, President                                                    
  Kodiak Liquor License Association                                            
  P. O. Box 947                                                                
  Kodiak, Alaska 99615                                                         
  Phone:  486-2700                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 168                                        
  SAM KITO                                                                     
  Aleutian/Pribilof Association                                                
  2713 David Street                                                            
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  364-2659                                                             
  Position Statement: Expressed Dimitri Philemonof's support                   
                      of HB 168                                                
  BILL BISHOP                                                                  
  American Legion                                                              
  P. O. Box 687                                                                
  Kodiak, Alaska 99615                                                         
  Phone:  486-3258                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 168                                        
  ELSIE O'BRYAN                                                                
  Project Director                                                             
  Mid-Valley Seniors                                                           
  P. O. Box 168                                                                
  Houston, Alaska 99694                                                        
  Phone:  892-6114                                                             
  Position Statement:  Supported HB 168                                        
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB 136                                                                
  BILL VERSION: CSHB 136(FIN)                                                  
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) MULDER,Phillips                              
  TITLE: "An Act relating to revocation of and limitations on                  
  a driver's license to the offenses of driving while                          
  intoxicated and refusal to submit to a breath test; imposing                 
  a limited license fee; amending Alaska Rule of Civil                         
  Procedure 32(b); and providing for an effective date."                       
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/05/93       238    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/05/93       238    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  02/25/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/02/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/02/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/05/93       543    (H)   HES RPT  CS(HES) NEW TITLE  3DP                  
  03/05/93       543    (H)   DP: B.DAVIS, NICHOLIA, BRICE                     
  03/05/93       543    (H)   NR: KOTT, VEZEY, G.DAVIS,                        
  03/05/93       543    (H)   NR: OLBERG, TOOHEY                               
  03/05/93       543    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE  (CORR) 3/5/93                      
  03/05/93       543    (H)   -2 ZERO FNS (DPS, LAW)  3/5/93                   
  03/19/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  03/19/93              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  03/19/93              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  03/19/93              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  03/22/93       739    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): PHILLIPS                           
  03/24/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  HB 28                                                                 
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS,Phillips,B.Davis,                   
  TITLE: "An Act relating to the penalty for providing                         
  alcoholic beverages to a person under the age of 21; and                     
  providing for an effective date."                                            
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/04/93        31    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/11/93        31    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/11/93        31    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  01/13/93        54    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG                             
  01/14/93        62    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): BUNDE                              
  02/10/93       312    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KOTT                               
  03/04/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/04/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/05/93       539    (H)   HES RPT  3DP 3NR                                 
  03/05/93       539    (H)   DP: BUNDE, TOOHEY, NICHOLIA                      
  03/05/93       540    (H)   NR: KOTT, VEZEY, BRICE                           
  03/05/93       540    (H)   -2 FISCAL NOTES (CORR, ADM)                      
  03/05/93       540    (H)   -3 ZERO FNS (LAW, DPS, ADM)                      
  03/24/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  BILL:  HB 168                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  CHARITABLE GAMING AMENDMENTS                                   
  BILL VERSION: CSHB 168(FIN) AM                                               
  SPONSOR(S):   RULES BY REQUEST                                               
  TITLE:  "An Act establishing a testing program for                           
  charitable gaming permittees and operators; relating to the                  
  duties of a member in charge; requiring regulations relating                 
  to pull-tabs to be consistent with North American Gaming                     
  Regulators Association standards on pull-tabs to the extent                  
  permitted by charitable gaming laws; allowing permittees to                  
  contract with vendors to sell pull-tabs on behalf of the                     
  permittee at an establishment holding a package store                        
  license and certain establishments holding a beverage                        
  dispensary license; allowing municipalities to prohibit                      
  vendors from conducting gaming activities within the                         
  municipality; restricting the purchase of pull-tabs by                       
  permittees, licensees, and vendors and their owners,                         
  managers, and employees; requiring receipts before prizes of                 
  $50 or more may be awarded in pull-tab games; prohibiting                    
  distributors from supplying pull-tabs to vendors; relating                   
  to the distribution of pull-tabs from one distributor to                     
  another distributor; requiring the registration of vendors                   
  and regulating activities involving them; requiring the                      
  licensing of out-of-state pull-tab manufacturers and                         
  increasing the annual licensing fee for pull-tab                             
  manufacturers; requiring the department regulating                           
  charitable gaming to approve contracts between permittees                    
  and operators before gaming may occur; preventing persons                    
  with felony convictions or convictions for crimes involving                  
  theft or dishonesty or a violation of gambling laws from                     
  being involved in charitable gaming activities as a                          
  permittee, licensee, vendor, person responsible for the                      
  operation of an activity, fund raiser or consultant of a                     
  licensee or vendor, or employee in a managerial or                           
  supervisory capacity, and providing exceptions for certain                   
  persons whose convictions are at least 10 years old and are                  
  not for violation of an unclassified felony described in AS                  
  11, a class A felony, or extortion; relating to multiple-                    
  beneficiary charitable gaming permits and door prizes for                    
  charitable gaming; requiring operators to pay permittees at                  
  least 30 percent of the adjusted gross income from a pull-                   
  tab activity and limiting operators to expenses of not more                  
  than 70 percent of the adjusted gross income from that                       
  activity; requiring operators to pay permittees at least 10                  
  percent of the adjusted gross income from a charitable                       
  gaming activity other than pull-tabs and limiting operators                  
  to expenses of not more than 90 percent of the adjusted                      
  gross income from that activity; requiring a permittee who                   
  uses a pull-tab vendor to enter into a contract with that                    
  vendor; requiring a vendor contracting with a permittee to                   
  pay the permittee at least 70 percent of the ideal net for                   
  each pull-tab series delivered to the vendor by the                          
  permittee; requiring that operators report an adjusted gross                 
  income of at least 15 percent of gross income; allowing the                  
  commissioner regulating charitable gaming to issue orders                    
  prohibiting violations of state gaming laws; relating to the                 
  authority of the commissioner regulating charitable gaming                   
  to suspend or revoke a permit, license, or registration;                     
  prohibiting the payment of any portion of the net proceeds                   
  of a bingo or pull-tab game to a registered lobbyist;                        
  providing a penalty for false statements in gaming license                   
  applications; providing communities with the authority by                    
  local option election to prohibit charitable gaming within                   
  the community; and providing for an effective date."                         
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/19/93       390    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/19/93       390    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, JUDICIARY,                     
  03/09/93              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                      
  03/10/93       588    (H)   L&C RPT  2DP 5NR                                 
  03/10/93       588    (H)   DP: SITTON, HUDSON                               
  03/10/93       588    (H)   NR: PORTER,WILLIAMS,MACKIE,                      
  03/10/93       588    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE  (DCED)  3/10/93                    
  03/24/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 93-40, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  The House Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was called to                 
  order at 1:10 p.m., on March 24, 1993.  A quorum was                         
  present.  Chairman Porter announced that the committee would                 
  address HB 136 first.  He announced that the meeting was                     
  being teleconferenced.                                                       
  HB 136:  DRUNK DRIVING AND BREATH TEST OFFENSES                              
  Number 043                                                                   
  DEPARTMENT OF LAW (DOL), expressed her support for HB 136.                   
  She then gave an overview of the draft committee substitute                  
  for HB 136 dated March 23, 1993.  She said that the bill                     
  would place first and second driving while intoxicated (DWI)                 
  offenders in halfway houses, and require them to pay for                     
  their incarceration, up to $1,000.  Additionally, those                      
  offenders would be required to perform community service                     
  while housed in the halfway house.  She said that the                        
  current version of HB 136 defined halfway house placements                   
  in such a way that it would exclude house arrests.                           
  MS. KNUTH stated that HB 136 also solved serious problems                    
  that had been created with regard to limited licenses.  She                  
  noted that section 2 of the bill changed the period of time                  
  for mandatory minimum revocations on third and fourth DWI                    
  offenses so that the mandatory minimum time would now be the                 
  same period for which a person's license would be revoked                    
  and the person was ineligible for a limited license.  She                    
  said that the bill would get rid of limited license                          
  privileges for offenders convicted of second, third, fourth,                 
  and subsequent DWI offenses.                                                 
  Number 100                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH commented that sections 1 and 3 allowed the                        
  Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) and the court system to                     
  restore driving privileges to people who, under former                       
  versions of the law, had their licenses revoked for much                     
  longer periods of time than the mandatory minimum times.                     
  She said that this would only occur if people had met the                    
  mandatory minimum periods, had completed alcohol treatment                   
  programs, and were otherwise in good standing with the court                 
  system and the DMV.  She said that people in Alaska who were                 
  making a good recovery were often greatly hampered by not                    
  being allowed to drive.                                                      
  Number 140                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH noted that section 4 rewrote the limited license                   
  statute.  She said that the new section provided that there                  
  would be no more limited licenses for anything except a                      
  first offense DWI conviction.  She mentioned that the                        
  section included a special definition of "previously                         
  convicted."  Ms. Knuth commented that for the purposes of a                  
  limited license, the state would count a ".08 conviction"                    
  from another jurisdiction.  She noted her earlier concern                    
  that a person could have multiple .08 convictions from other                 
  jurisdictions and still not be subject to repeat DWI                         
  offender laws in Alaska.  That would no longer happen under                  
  section 4's provisions, she said.                                            
  Number 175                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH stated that section 5 ensured that offenders                       
  enrolled in and complied with alcohol treatment programs                     
  before they receive their licenses back.  Section 6 added a                  
  $100 fee for obtaining a limited license.  She said that                     
  another $100 fee would be charged at the time that a person                  
  went from a limited license to a regular driver's license.                   
  Number 197                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked how long a limited license                    
  would be in effect.                                                          
  Number 205                                                                   
  OF PUBLIC SAFETY, replied that after the period of                           
  revocation, a person was eligible to get a regular, five                     
  year license.  At that time, she added, a person would pay a                 
  reinstatement fee of $100.  She also mentioned the $100                      
  application fee for a limited license, which would be in                     
  effect for 60 days.                                                          
  Number 222                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH called the members' attention to section 7 of                      
  HB 136.  That section clarified to the court of appeals that                 
  limited licenses could not be granted to people whose                        
  licenses had been revoked for driving while a license was                    
  revoked or cancelled.  She said that the rest of section 7                   
  related to placements in halfway houses and requiring                        
  payment of up to $1,000.  She reiterated that the bill                       
  contained a tight definition of what appropriate placements                  
  would be.  She noted that all convicted DWI offenders would                  
  be required to pay up to $1,000 toward the cost of their                     
  placement, regardless of whether they were housed in a                       
  prison or a halfway house.                                                   
  MS. KNUTH commented that section 11 indicated that there was                 
  a court rule change regarding making it a part of a                          
  defendant's judgment that he or she pay the cost of the                      
  incarceration.  She stated that if HB 136 did not pass the                   
  legislature with a 2/3 vote, as required for a court rule                    
  change, section 11 would not take effect and judgments would                 
  not necessarily contain an order for payment of up to $1,000                 
  for placement.  However, she said that the court system                      
  could enforce that requirement on its own initiative.                        
  MS. KNUTH mentioned the applicability section of HB 136, and                 
  the effective date.  She stated that the provisions of                       
  HB 136 relating to limited licenses would start applying to                  
  people regardless of when their conviction occurred.                         
  Number 295                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN BRIAN PORTER agreed with Ms. Knuth that the current                 
  version of HB 136 was a very good bill, as earlier concerns                  
  with the bill had been addressed.                                            
  Number 303                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES made a MOTION to ADOPT                        
  CSHB 136 (JUD), dated March 23, 1993.  There being no                        
  objection, IT WAS SO ORDERED.                                                
  Number 318                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE PETE KOTT made a MOTION to PASS CSHB 136                      
  (JUD), dated March 23, 1993, out of committee, with attached                 
  fiscal note.  There being no objection, IT WAS SO ORDERED.                   
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that the committee would take up                   
  HB 28 next.                                                                  
  HB 28:  PENALTY FOR PROVIDING ALCOHOL TO A MINOR                             
  Number 356                                                                   
  mentioned that a similar bill had been introduced the year                   
  before by former-Representative Cheri Davis, in response to                  
  the tragic alcohol-related deaths of two Ketchikan youths.                   
  He said that the purpose of the bill was to change the                       
  penalty for providing alcoholic beverages to persons under                   
  the age of 21.  He said that the crime of furnishing alcohol                 
  to a minor was currently a misdemeanor with a maximum                        
  penalty of one year in jail and a $5,000 fine.  House Bill                   
  28, he said, would make the same crime a class C felony with                 
  a maximum jail sentence of five years and a maximum fine of                  
  REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS commented that HB 28 would serve as                  
  a greater deterrent to those providing alcohol to minors.                    
  Number 395                                                                   
  JEANNEANE HENRY testified via teleconference from Ketchikan.                 
  She mentioned that Kathy Blauser, Director of Ketchikan                      
  Youth Services, was unable to be present, but wished to                      
  convey her organization's wholehearted support for HB 28.                    
  MS. HENRY is the mother of one of the boys who was killed in                 
  1991, after an adult provided a gallon of vodka to him and                   
  four other youths.  She said that the man who purchased the                  
  vodka was arrested, sentenced, and then left the community                   
  after serving part of his sentence.  She mentioned that the                  
  man had previously been sentenced in Oregon, to receive                      
  alcohol screening and treatment.  However, due to a lack of                  
  monitoring, the man never received the treatment and left                    
  Oregon for Ketchikan.  She said that if Oregon officials had                 
  monitored the man, her son might be alive today.                             
  Number 440                                                                   
  MS. HENRY said that adults giving children drugs was a                       
  serious crime that violated the rights of children to be                     
  protected by their parents and by the community.  She said                   
  that many adults willingly provided alcohol to minors.  She                  
  commented that one month after the man who had provided her                  
  son with alcohol was sentenced, another man provided alcohol                 
  to a minor, who was killed as a result.  She said that                       
  children deserved more protection than the current law                       
  offered.  She urged support for HB 28.                                       
  REPRESENTATIVES NORDLUND and PHILLIPS joined the committee.                  
  Number 474                                                                   
  SUE PICKRELL, a drug prevention specialist with ALASKANS FOR                 
  DRUG-FREE YOUTH, testified via teleconference from                           
  Ketchikan.  She urged the committee to pass out HB 28.  She                  
  is a former police officer, who had often investigated minor                 
  consuming cases.  She said that teenagers would often not                    
  tell law enforcement officers who had purchased alcohol for                  
  them, making arrests and prosecutions of adults difficult.                   
  She said that making a second offense of providing alcohol                   
  to a minor a felony was not out-of-line.  She said that it                   
  would send a clear message to adults that furnishing alcohol                 
  to minors would no longer be tolerated.                                      
  Number 493                                                                   
  YOUTH, testified via teleconference from Ketchikan.  She                     
  mentioned that the bill introduced by former-Representative                  
  Cheri Davis had contained two components that were not                       
  included in HB 28.  She suggested putting those two                          
  components back into the bill.  One would require that signs                 
  regarding the penalties for furnishing alcohol to a minor be                 
  posted in bars and liquor stores.  The other section                         
  provided that a minor who solicited an adult to purchase                     
  alcohol for him or her would be guilty of a misdemeanor.                     
  MS. ADAMS noted that the second provision would place some                   
  responsibility on the minor.  She expressed her opinion that                 
  HB 28 was an effective tool for reducing alcohol consumption                 
  among youth.  She urged the committee to pass the bill.                      
  Number 523                                                                   
  JOHN SALEMI, DIRECTOR, PUBLIC DEFENDER AGENCY, testified via                 
  teleconference from Anchorage.  He said that passage of HB
  28 would have a fiscal impact on his agency.  He expressed                   
  his opinion that everyone could agree that alcohol was a                     
  drug, and was commonly abused by youth in our society,                       
  creating tremendous suffering.  He commented that alcohol                    
  was a prevalent part of the social fabric in our society.                    
  He said that disagreement existed with regard to what effect                 
  HB 28 would have on the social problem of youth and alcohol.                 
  He stated that his agency felt that HB 28 would not have the                 
  desired impact of addressing the real problem of alcohol                     
  MR. SALEMI noted that not all social problems were                           
  susceptible to elimination or reduction through the passage                  
  of laws.  He mentioned the federal Prohibition Law, which                    
  had significant penalties, but was consistently violated.                    
  He stated that in past hearings, HB 28 had been promoted as                  
  a means of deterring adults from furnishing liquor to                        
  minors.  He said that if he thought HB 28 would serve as a                   
  deterrent, he would support it.  However, he said that over                  
  the last ten years in Alaska, it had been found that                         
  enhancing penalties was not a guarantee that people would be                 
  less likely to engage in criminal conduct.                                   
  MR. SALEMI commented that the Alaska criminal laws had been                  
  completely overhauled, yet crime was on the rise, and prison                 
  populations continued to grow.  He said that the problem was                 
  that in many instances, crime was a thoughtless and                          
  impulsive act, and an offender did not necessarily consider                  
  the consequences of his or her actions.  He questioned the                   
  value of stiff penalties and sentences.                                      
  MR. SALEMI anticipated, based on DOL estimates, that HB 28                   
  would result in the Public Defender Agency handling an                       
  additional 75-100 felony cases per year.  Based on national                  
  caseload standards, he said, that would mean that his agency                 
  would require an additional half-time attorney and some                      
  support staff.  He said that his agency's current staff                      
  simply could not absorb the increased caseload that would                    
  result from HB 28.                                                           
  MR. SALEMI suggested an alternative to HB 28.  He said that                  
  furnishing alcohol to a minor was already a crime, with a                    
  maximum penalty of up to one year in prison and a $5,000                     
  fine.  He recommended that judges be educated about the need                 
  to impose maximum penalties on those who furnished alcohol                   
  to minors.  Additionally, he suggested that liquor stores                    
  post notices stating that it was a crime for adults to                       
  furnish alcohol to minors, and stating the penalties for                     
  committing that crime.  He commented that the state might                    
  already have adequate laws on the books, but simply needed                   
  to educate judges and inform potential violators of the                      
  consequences of their actions.                                               
  Number 647                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked Mr. Salemi how increasing the                     
  penalty for an existing crime would increase the number of                   
  cases handled by his agency.                                                 
  Number 653                                                                   
  MR. SALEMI replied that HB 28 would change the character of                  
  cases that his agency received.  He noted that the DOL had                   
  estimated there were about 200 cases of adults furnishing                    
  alcohol to minors every year, and that 100 of those cases                    
  could be prosecuted as felony offenses, if HB 28 was                         
  enacted.  That, he said, meant cases that his agency now                     
  handled as misdemeanors would become felonies, which                         
  entailed much more work.                                                     
  Number 679                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Mr. Salemi if increasing the                       
  penalty for furnishing alcohol to a minor to life                            
  imprisonment would serve as a deterrent, in light of Mr.                     
  Salemi's earlier questioning of the deterrent value of                       
  increasing penalties for furnishing alcohol to minors.                       
  Number 686                                                                   
  MR. SALEMI responded that if penalties were grave enough for                 
  all crimes, society might eventually see some deterrent                      
  effect.  The question then became, he said, what was society                 
  willing to spend in order to achieve that deterrent effect?                  
  He stated that capital punishment or life imprisonment would                 
  likely result in some deterrent effect, but the issue was                    
  whether or not offenders would process that information, if                  
  they knew it at all, at the time they were considering                       
  committing the crime.                                                        
  Number 705                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Mr. Salemi to comment on the                       
  potential deterrent effect of posting signs in liquor                        
  stores, stating what the penalties were for providing                        
  alcohol to minors.                                                           
  Number 711                                                                   
  MR. SALEMI said that he had mentioned posting signs in                       
  liquor stores, because in reviewing his notes from when                      
  HB 28 was heard in the House Health, Education and Social                    
  Services (HESS) Committee, proponents of the bill had                        
  mentioned adding a section to HB 28 requiring the posting of                 
  signs.  He did not necessarily agree that posting signs                      
  would have a deterrent effect.  However, he said that under                  
  current law, signs could be posted in liquor stores.  He                     
  said that posting signs certainly would not hurt, and would                  
  cost very little money.                                                      
  Number 731                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN PORTER mentioned that someone had testified earlier                 
  that HB 28 would only apply to second and subsequent                         
  convictions for furnishing alcohol to minors.  However, he                   
  clarified for committee members that the bill would also                     
  affect first-time offenders.  He asked Mr. Salemi if a                       
  person convicted of a misdemeanor for furnishing alcohol to                  
  a minor could be subject to civil litigation.                                
  Number 734                                                                   
  MR. SALEMI replied that nothing that had occurred in                         
  criminal court would preclude an injured party or his or her                 
  family from filing a civil action.  He stated that a                         
  criminal court could also order restitution, upon conviction                 
  of an individual.                                                            
  Number 748                                                                   
  MS. HENRY stated that, as the mother of a child who was                      
  killed after an adult furnished him with alcohol, a penalty                  
  of life imprisonment for that adult would be fine with her.                  
  However, she said that she knew that that was impractical.                   
  She recommended putting some "meat" into the current law and                 
  sending a clear message to adults that it was not acceptable                 
  to furnish minors with alcohol.  She stated that providing                   
  alcohol to minors was a serious crime.  She indicated that                   
  in many cases, civil litigation did not work, as offenders                   
  were sometimes indigent.  She stated that making the crime a                 
  misdemeanor did not send a strong enough message to society.                 
  Number 793                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH stated that making Alaska a "dry" state would                      
  result in much less crime and suffering.  She said that a                    
  very substantial percentage of crimes committed were                         
  alcohol-related.  She added that there was a double standard                 
  when it came to alcohol in our society.  Parents did not                     
  want their children to drink, she said, yet the parents                      
  would not stop drinking themselves.  Not only was it legal                   
  for children to start drinking once they turned 21, she                      
  said, but it also was not a crime for parents to furnish                     
  alcohol to their own children.                                               
  Number 805                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH noted the existing disparity between adults                        
  lawfully providing alcohol to their own children, and adults                 
  illegally providing alcohol to other minors.  House Bill 28,                 
  she said, would create an even greater disparity.  She                       
  commented that making the furnishing of alcohol to minors a                  
  felony offense might not have the desired effect.  Now, she                  
  said, furnishing alcohol to a minor was a serious                            
  misdemeanor, one taken very seriously by judges, and                         
  punished rather severely.  If the crime was changed to be a                  
  felony, she continued, offenders would be brought before                     
  superior court judges instead of district court judges.                      
  Number 830                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said that in comparison to other crimes that                       
  superior court judges saw, furnishing alcohol to a minor                     
  would seem like a pretty minor offense.                                      
  TAPE 93-40, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH stated that the effect of HB 28 would probably be                  
  that offenders would serve even less jail time than they did                 
  now.  She said that Representative Cheri Davis' bill had                     
  proposed making second and subsequent offenses felonies.                     
  She again mentioned that making the crime a felony at all                    
  was troublesome to her.  She commented that a situation in                   
  which furnishing alcohol to a minor resulted in that minor's                 
  death could result in an adult being prosecuted for                          
  homicide.  She commented that the Ketchikan case was a                       
  Number 042                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked Ms. Knuth to comment on the                       
  social stigma associated with being a felon, and its                         
  deterrent value.                                                             
  Number 057                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH stated that being labeled a felon had a                            
  significant impact on non-indigent individuals, as it made                   
  it difficult for a person to get a job.  Yet she did not                     
  know that it would have any deterrent effect because                         
  offenders, in her view, did not consider the consequences                    
  prior to furnishing alcohol to minors.  She expressed doubt                  
  that people would know that the crime was a felony.  The                     
  criminal mentality, she said, was very limited, and                          
  offenders did not expect to get caught.                                      
  Number 083                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked Ms. Knuth to express her opinion                  
  on posting signs in liquor stores.                                           
  Number 097                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH was aware of signs already in liquor stores, which                 
  stated that minors were not allowed on the premises.  She                    
  said that if those signs did not make a person furnishing                    
  alcohol to a minor think about his or her actions, she was                   
  not sure that a new sign would serve as a deterrent.  She                    
  said that a large part of the problem was that many people                   
  did not feel that furnishing alcohol to minors was an                        
  inherently bad thing, as evidenced by the large number of                    
  adults who were willing to provide alcohol to minors.                        
  Number 126                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JIM NORDLUND asked Ms. Knuth if a parent                      
  could be prosecuted for a situation in which his or her                      
  child, accompanied by another minor, raided that parent's                    
  liquor cabinet, unbeknownst to the parent.                                   
  Number 139                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH replied that that parent could be prosecuted,                      
  although the prosecution would be difficult.                                 
  Number 155                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND stated that under HB 28, then, a                     
  parent in that situation could be subject to a five-year                     
  prison sentence.                                                             
  MS. KNUTH concurred.                                                         
  Number 159                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked what the mean sentence was for                     
  violation of the current law regarding furnishing alcohol to                 
  Number 166                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH did not have that information with her.                            
  Number 174                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if the state had any data                          
  pertaining to what type of people furnished alcohol to                       
  Number 184                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH replied that two classes of people would be                        
  subjected to liability under HB 28's provisions.  The first                  
  class was liquor store clerks, she said, easily caught and                   
  prosecuted.  However, she said that those people were not                    
  whom HB 28 meant to target.  With regard to non-liquor store                 
  clerks, she suspected that offenders would be more                           
  responsible than the average defendant in criminal court.                    
  She said that most defendants would probably believe they                    
  were not doing any harm by providing alcohol to minors.                      
  Number 222                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked if a Department of Corrections                     
  (DOC) representative could explain that agency's fiscal                      
  Number 228                                                                   
  DOC, described how she had prepared the fiscal note on                       
  HB 28.  She called the members' attention to the third                       
  paragraph on page 2 of the DOC's fiscal note.  She said                      
  that, for the purposes of the fiscal note, she had assumed                   
  that the lowest mean sentence for a class C felony of this                   
  type was 7.5 months, or 225 bed days.  The average mean                      
  sentence for a class A misdemeanor, as providing alcohol to                  
  a minor currently was, was 1.5 months, or 45 days, she                       
  Number 265                                                                   
  MS. LATOUR said that by raising the offense from a class A                   
  misdemeanor to a class C felony, offenders would receive                     
  sentences of an additional 180 days.  Subtracting one-third                  
  of that sentence for "good time," she said, left an increase                 
  of 120 days.  Multiplying 120 bed days by 100 convictions (a                 
  figure that she got from the DOL), by the average cost of                    
  incarceration at a community residential center, $50 per                     
  day, she arrived at the cost of HB 28 at $600,000 per year.                  
  Number 281                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked how she had arrived at the mean                    
  sentence of 45 days for the class A misdemeanor for                          
  providing alcohol to a minor.                                                
  Number 294                                                                   
  MS. LATOUR replied that the 45-day figure was based somewhat                 
  on assumption.  She said that she had spoken with many                       
  experts to determine how long these offenders served.                        
  Number 306                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT commented that the correctional data                     
  information system in the state needed to be improved.                       
  Number 313                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Ms. Latour if the DOC's fiscal                    
  note would be less, in light of Ms. Knuth's testimony that                   
  elevating the crime from a misdemeanor to a felony might                     
  result in judges handing down shorter sentences.                             
  Number 342                                                                   
  MS. LATOUR did not know how Ms. Knuth's theory would impact                  
  the DOC's fiscal note.                                                       
  Number 351                                                                   
  JIM FISK testified via teleconference from Kodiak.  He has                   
  been involved in the liquor business for over 40 years, and                  
  said that the problem of minor consuming was an age-old                      
  problem that started at home.  He stated that all the                        
  legislation in the world would not stop minors from                          
  drinking.  He said that the education process needed to                      
  begin at home and in the schools.                                            
  Number 378                                                                   
  MR. FISK added that Alaska was unique in its approach of                     
  having the legislature, the Alcoholic Beverage Control                       
  Board, and the liquor industry work together to bring about                  
  the use of alcohol management techniques.  He cited a bill                   
  that would require alcohol dispensers to pass an alcohol                     
  management course.  He asserted that the state could not                     
  simply post signs and expect deterrence.  He indicated his                   
  lack of support for HB 28.                                                   
  Number 416                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES made a MOTION to MOVE HB 28 out of                      
  committee with individual recommendations and accompanying                   
  fiscal notes.                                                                
  Number 422                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND OBJECTED.                                            
  Number 430                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT OBJECTED for the purpose of taking an                    
  "at ease" at 2:18 p.m.  The committee then reconvened at                     
  2:19 p.m.                                                                    
  Number 436                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES WITHDREW her MOTION to MOVE HB 28 out                   
  of committee.                                                                
  Number 439                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT stated that he would WITHDRAW his                        
  Number 440                                                                   
  CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that with the motion withdrawn, the                    
  objections were already removed.  He said that during the                    
  brief "at ease," it had come to his attention that it was                    
  the will of the committee that HB 28 needed work.    He                      
  APPOINTED A SUBCOMMITTEE consisting of Representatives                       
  Phillips, Kott, and Nordlund to consider amendments to HB
  28.  He asked the subcommittee to bring the bill back before                 
  the committee as soon as they had done their work.                           
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that the committee would address                   
  HB 168 next.                                                                 
  HB 168:  CHARITABLE GAMING AMENDMENTS                                        
  Number 469                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE CARL MOSES, PRIME SPONSOR of HB 168,                          
  testified that if enacted, his bill would clarify in statute                 
  what activities were permissible and also create a new                       
  charitable gaming permit called a "multiple beneficiary                      
  permit."  Two to six qualified organizations would be                        
  allowed to apply jointly for a multiple beneficiary permit,                  
  he stated.  The organizations could then conduct as many                     
  games and sessions as allowed by law for each permittee,                     
  multiplied by the number of holders of the multiple                          
  beneficiary permit.                                                          
  Number 501                                                                   
  COMMITTEE, outlined the components of a draft committee                      
  substitute, dated March 24, 1993.  She said that the draft                   
  committee substitute was identical to the original HB 168,                   
  except for three additional sections.  The first additional                  
  language appeared in section 6, on page 2 of the bill, she                   
  said.  She said that John Hansen, from the Department of                     
  Commerce and Economic Development (DCED) would explain the                   
  new language and its effect later.                                           
  MS. HORETSKI commented that sections 7 and 9 were also new                   
  additions to HB 168.  She said that the new language would                   
  require 40% of the adjusted gross income from a pull-tab                     
  activity be provided to the sponsoring charity.  Conversely,                 
  the bill held that the total amount of authorized expenses                   
  could not exceed 60% of the adjusted gross income.  She                      
  deferred to Mr. Hansen to explain the practical effect of                    
  that new language.                                                           
  Number 538                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS noted that the changes to the                   
  body of HB 168 would require a title change.                                 
  Number 539                                                                   
  MS. HORETSKI replied that the title of the draft committee                   
  substitute reflected the changes made in the body of HB 168.                 
  Number 543                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Ms. Horetski a question regarding                 
  the language on page 3, section 7, line 12, of the draft                     
  committee substitute.                                                        
  Number 549                                                                   
  MS. HORETSKI said that, in her understanding, at least 40%                   
  of the adjusted gross income from pull-tab activities, or at                 
  least 15% of the adjusted gross income from gaming                           
  activities other than pull-tabs had to be provided to the                    
  sponsoring charity.                                                          
  Number 555                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern with the language.                    
  He asked what would happen in the event that an operator ran                 
  gaming activities consisting of both pull-tabs and other                     
  types of games.                                                              
  Number 562                                                                   
  MS. HORETSKI stated that if an operator ran both pull-tab                    
  and other gaming operations, he or she would apply one                       
  percentage rule to the pull-tab activity and another                         
  percentage rule to the other activity.                                       
  Number 569                                                                   
  JOHN HANSEN, GAMING AMANGER, DCED, said that the amendments                  
  included in the draft committee substitute required two                      
  separate expense limitations.  Specifically, he said that                    
  pull-tab expenses would be limited to 60% of adjusted gross                  
  income, or net income.  Other activities, he said, would                     
  have to have at least 15% of adjusted gross income for net                   
  proceeds.  Under current law, he said that operators were                    
  required to pay 15% of adjusted gross income for all gaming                  
  activities within two consecutive quarters.                                  
  MR. HANSEN said that currently, an operator could incur a                    
  loss in one quarter and pay no net proceeds.  In the                         
  following quarter, he said, the operator could pay the 15%                   
  minimum and be in compliance with the law.  Therefore, he                    
  said, although current law required that charities receive                   
  15% of adjusted gross income, in reality they sometimes                      
  received substantially less than that.                                       
  Number 597                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Hansen to address a situation                 
  in which an operator ran both pull-tab and other gaming                      
  Number 601                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN replied that each activity would stand on its                     
  own, in terms of expenses.  He stated that under current                     
  law, an operator could offset bingo or pull-tab expenses                     
  with other types of gaming activity.  House Bill 168,                        
  however, would separate pull-tab activity from other                         
  CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if an operator running both pull-tab                   
  and other gaming activities would have to keep expenses and                  
  revenues separate.                                                           
  Number 618                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN responded that under current law, that separation                 
  was already required.  On both financial statements and                      
  quarterly reports, he said, each activity's income and                       
  expenses were separately identified.  However, he said that                  
  when the finances of those two activities were combined on                   
  the front of the financial statement, they became a joint                    
  net income, where one could offset the other.  House Bill                    
  168, he said, would isolate pull-tabs from other types of                    
  gaming activity and set percentages which would end up as                    
  net proceeds.                                                                
  Number 628                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN indicated his understanding of the                      
  practical applications of HB 168.                                            
  Number 634                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked if the 40% threshold would                     
  present any problems for operators or charitable                             
  Number 642                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN stated that the DCED had some financial                           
  statements on file, which were completed under the 40%                       
  requirement that had been imposed via regulation.  He said                   
  that some operations would have to change as a result of HB
  168.  While the 40% requirement was in effect, he said, some                 
  operators said that they had shut down less-profitable                       
  operations.  Other operators had complied with the                           
  regulation, and continued to comply with the regulation,                     
  although it was no longer in effect.                                         
  MR. HANSEN commented that HB 168 would have an effect not                    
  just on operators, but also on organizations that conducted                  
  their own gaming activity.  He said that there were                          
  currently no expense limitations on permittees who ran their                 
  own gaming activities.  He expressed an opinion that the                     
  changes that would result from HB 168 would be positive                      
  Number 667                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT recalled that the regulations had                        
  affected the larger gaming operations.  He asked Mr. Hansen                  
  to elaborate on the effect of the regulations.                               
  Number 674                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN replied that the Alaska gaming industry had seen                  
  substantial changes over the last several years.  Most of                    
  the changes that resulted in operators going out of                          
  business, he said, had nothing to do with the regulations.                   
  He stated that today, there was only one operator left out                   
  of the six largest operators doing business in 1990.  He                     
  mentioned that prior to the regulations going into effect,                   
  there were 26 operators in Alaska.  Today, there were almost                 
  40, he added.                                                                
  JIM FISK testified via teleconference from Kodiak in support                 
  of charitable organizations and the Charitable Gaming Reform                 
  Act of 1988.  He said that the goal of that act was to put                   
  the money in the hands of the charitable organizations.                      
  That, he stated, had not happened.  He said that his                         
  organization, the Bayside Fire Department, and other Kodiak                  
  charitable organizations, strongly supported the 60%                         
  expenses/40% charities break-out.  He also urged support for                 
  a forthcoming bill which related to gaming agents                            
  representing charitable organizations.  He said that                         
  permittees needed to get more money from charitable gaming.                  
  TAPE 93-41, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  RON PAGENKOPF said that he was a gaming operator and had                     
  gone into the business one year earlier to support youth                     
  athletics in Juneau.  He said that in several days, he was                   
  going to turn his business over to the charities that he had                 
  been representing.  He noted that under current law, it was                  
  very complicated to turn his operation over to the five                      
  MR. PAGENKOPF mentioned that HB 168 would allow the process                  
  that he was currently going through to be expedited.                         
  Additionally, he said that the bill would put less of a                      
  burden on charities when it came to auditing.  He indicated                  
  his strong support for HB 168.  He did not see any negative                  
  aspects of the bill, even for operators.  He said that the                   
  bill would allow those charities that had the time and                       
  expertise to run gaming operations the ability to reap                       
  maximum profits.                                                             
  Number 079                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked Mr. Pagenkopf how HB 168 would                 
  change the way in which operators currently did business.                    
  MR. PAGENKOPF understood that HB 168 would allow several                     
  charities to share a location, have volume purchasing power,                 
  and file a single report with the DCED.                                      
  Number 117                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN stated that HB 168 would allow for up to six                      
  organizations to conduct gaming activity at a single                         
  location, under a single permit.  Under current regulations,                 
  he said, this was already allowed, to some extent.  He                       
  commented that when the 1988 reform act was passed, pull-                    
  tabs were legalized, and operators were recognized as                        
  another class of licensee.  He said that particularly for                    
  large gaming operations, the law was more likely to                          
  recognize a licensed operator.                                               
  MR. HANSEN mentioned that the DCED had gone as far as it                     
  could, through the regulatory process, to allow multiple                     
  organizations to band together and conduct gaming operations                 
  without a licensed operator.  He said that HB 168 would                      
  recognize a new class of licensee:  a group of permittees                    
  that operated out of a single facility and had a blanket                     
  license for that activity.  He said that the bill would                      
  result in greater purchasing power, fewer reporting                          
  requirements, and economies of scale for labor.                              
  Number 170                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked Mr. Hansen if the charitable                   
  organizations would share the gaming proceeds equally.                       
  MR. HANSEN replied that organizations with a multiple-                       
  beneficiary permit could allocate the proceeds any way they                  
  Number 205                                                                   
  ASSOCIATION, testified via teleconference from Kodiak in                     
  support of HB 168.  He favored the 60/40 split.  He                          
  commented that the bill would allow non-profit organizations                 
  not currently involved in charitable gaming to become                        
  Number 233                                                                   
  SAM KITO made a statement on behalf of Dimitri Philemonof,                   
  Executive Director of the Aleutian/Pribilof Association.  He                 
  said that that organization operated Lucky Strike Bingo in                   
  Anchorage, and had requested the introduction of HB 168, so                  
  that multiple permittees could operate gaming activities in                  
  a single location.  He said that the bill would allow the                    
  organizations to use a single permit and distribute net                      
  income as they saw fit.                                                      
  MR. KITO mentioned that the 60/40 split would create                         
  problems for some organizations, including Lucky Strike                      
  Bingo.  He said that HB 168 would result in a 73% reduction                  
  in the amount of money that would go to the charities, due                   
  to non-consolidated federal business income taxes.                           
  Number 324                                                                   
  BILL BISHOP, from the AMERICAN LEGION, testified in support                  
  of HB 168 via teleconference from Kodiak.  He said that his                  
  organization relied heavily on the proceeds from charitable                  
  gaming activities to fund community service projects.  He                    
  supported the 60/40 split.                                                   
  Number 355                                                                   
  HOUSTON and a permit-holder, testified via teleconference.                   
  She said that in 1992, her organization had used an                          
  operator, received 15% of the adjusted gross income, and                     
  paid taxes on that 15%.  She strongly endorsed the 60/40                     
  split.  She asked Mr. Hansen if her organization were to                     
  become part of a multiple-beneficiary pull-tab permit, would                 
  it be prohibited from solely holding a bingo permit.                         
  Number 382                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN understood that the holder of a multiple-                         
  beneficiary permit would not be allowed to hold another                      
  gaming permit.  He said that gaming laws were designed to                    
  spread the wealth among many organizations, by limiting                      
  annual prize amounts.  He stated that the DCED would likely                  
  not oppose an amendment allowing a participant in a                          
  multiple-beneficiary permit to also be involved in a                         
  different gaming activity at a different location.                           
  MS. O'BRYAN asked Mr. Hansen about prize limitations for                     
  multiple-beneficiary gaming operations.                                      
  MR. HANSEN stated that under a multiple-beneficiary permit,                  
  the $1 million prize limitation would be multiplied by the                   
  number of organizations conducting gaming activities at a                    
  single location.                                                             
  Number 437                                                                   
  MS. O'BRYAN responded that it was her interpretation that                    
  HB 168 would allow her organization to double its potential                  
  income from charitable gaming, by getting involved in a                      
  multiple-beneficiary operation, and not utilizing an                         
  Number 441                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN concurred.  He added that under current law, a                    
  self-directed charitable organization was allowed a $1                       
  million prize limitation.                                                    
  Number 447                                                                   
  MS. O'BRYAN indicated her organization's strong support of                   
  HB 168, saying that it provided charities with options.  She                 
  stated that the amendments incorporated into the Judiciary                   
  Committee's draft committee substitute were positive changes                 
  to HB 168.                                                                   
  Number 463                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT asked Mr. Hansen to elaborate on his                     
  earlier comment that the DCED would not likely oppose an                     
  amendment allowing participants in a multiple-beneficiary                    
  venture to hold another gaming permit for a different type                   
  of gaming activity.                                                          
  Number 467                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN called the members' attention to section 8 of the                 
  draft committee substitute, which held that a participant in                 
  a multiple-beneficiary gaming operation could not hold                       
  another gaming permit.  He stated that the DCED would not                    
  object to changing that provision of the bill, provided that                 
  a charity still adhered to its $1 million prize limitation                   
  Number 492                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked who had requested the changes                  
  that appeared in the draft committee substitute.                             
  Number 497                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN replied that the amendment relating to the 60/40                  
  split had been drafted by the DCED, and embodied the essence                 
  of the Hickel administration's stance on charitable gaming.                  
  Regarding the second amendment, he mentioned that under                      
  current law, an operator and a permittee entered into a                      
  contract, which had to be submitted to the DCED within 15                    
  days.  He said that under current law, the DCED had no                       
  rights to approve or disapprove contracts.  The Mid-Valley                   
  Seniors had had contract problems, he said, and had                          
  requested some sort of legislative fix to ensure that                        
  contracts complied with the law and were approved by the                     
  MR. HANSEN added that under the bill's provisions a contract                 
  would set out the amount of compensation that an operator                    
  and a permittee would receive.                                               
  Number 537                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked the Chairman to consider                       
  holding HB 168 in committee until Friday.  He wanted to hear                 
  from additional gaming operators in the Anchorage area, to                   
  find out their opinions on the bill.  He mentioned that he                   
  had heard that some gaming operators ran their bingo games                   
  at a deficit, and used pull-tab proceeds to make up for that                 
  deficit.  He expressed concern about the effects of HB 168                   
  on those types of gaming operations and the charities which                  
  benefited from them.                                                         
  CHAIRMAN PORTER commented that the committee had heard from                  
  operators, the DCED, and charitable organizations, and                       
  stated that no one had mentioned the concern raised by                       
  Representative Nordlund.                                                     
  Number 574                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES was comfortable with moving HB 168 out                  
  of committee.                                                                
  Number 577                                                                   
  MR. HANSEN stated that Anchorage bingo games were often                      
  operated as a "loss leader," to get people in the door of a                  
  gaming facility to play pull-tabs.  If a gaming operation                    
  had no adjusted gross income, there would be no expense                      
  report to file, he said.  He mentioned that it was up to                     
  operators to set prize amounts.  He stated that some bingo                   
  facilities paid out enormous prizes, because of competition.                 
  He said that HB 168 might force gaming operators to adjust                   
  their prize pay-offs to be more profitable.                                  
  MR. HANSEN commented that committee members would hear that                  
  HB 168 would have a big impact.  He admitted that the bill                   
  would have an impact, but said that the impact would be                      
  positive, because it would be across the board.                              
  Number 601                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND hoped to achieve a higher comfort                    
  level with regard to HB 168.  He again requested that the                    
  Chairman hold the bill in committee until Friday.                            
  CHAIRMAN PORTER stated that because the bill had a House                     
  Finance Committee referral, he was inclined to pass the bill                 
  out of committee today.  He said that if Representative                      
  Nordlund's research turned up serious concerns with the                      
  bill, they could be addressed in the House Finance                           
  Number 616                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES made a MOTION to MOVE CSHB 168 (JUD)                    
  out of committee, with individual recommendations and                        
  attached fiscal note.                                                        
  Number 621                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE KOTT OBJECTED.  He questioned whether the                     
  committee had adopted the draft committee substitute.                        
  (JUD) out of committee.  She made a new MOTION to ADOPT                      
  CSHB 168 (JUD), dated March 24, 1993.  There being no                        
  objection, IT WAS SO ORDERED.                                                
  Number 634                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES made a MOTION to MOVE CSHB 168 (JUD)                    
  out of committee with individual recommendations and                         
  attached fiscal note.                                                        
  Number 638                                                                   
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND said that he would not object to the                 
  motion.  He added that he would bring his concerns before                    
  the House Finance Committee.                                                 
  There being no objection to Representative James' motion,                    
  CSHB 168 (JUD) MOVED out of committee.                                       
  CHAIRMAN PORTER adjourned the meeting at 3:14 p.m.                           

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