Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/19/1993 01:00 PM JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
               HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE                              
                         March 19, 1993                                        
                            1:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Brian Porter, Chairman                                        
  Representative Jeannette James, Vice-Chair                                   
  Representative Pete Kott                                                     
  Representative Gail Phillips                                                 
  Representative Joe Green                                                     
  Representative Cliff Davidson (via teleconference                            
                                 from Kodiak)                                  
  Representative Jim Nordlund                                                  
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  HB 113    "An Act regulating the solicitation of                             
            contributions by charitable organizations and paid                 
            solicitors and the solicitation of sales by                        
            telephonic means; and amending Alaska Rules of                     
            Civil Procedure 79 and 82."                                        
                                                                               
            CSHB 113 (JUD) PASSED OUT WITH A DO PASS                           
            RECOMMENDATION                                                     
                                                                               
  HB 137    "An Act authorizing special medical parole for                     
            terminally ill prisoners."                                         
                                                                               
            CSHB 137 (JUD) PASSED OUT WITH A DO PASS                           
            RECOMMENDATION                                                     
                                                                               
  HB 67     "An Act relating to eligibility for and payments                   
            of public assistance; and providing for an                         
            effective date."                                                   
                                                                               
            CSHB 67 (JUD) PASSED OUT WITH A DO PASS                            
            RECOMMENDATION                                                     
                                                                               
  HB 136    "An Act relating to the offenses of driving while                  
            intoxicated and refusal to submit to a breath                      
            test; and providing for an effective date."                        
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD IN COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER                            
            CONSIDERATION                                                      
                                                                               
  HB 138    "An Act relating to limitations on a drivers'                      
            license; imposing a limited license fee; and                       
            providing for an effective date."                                  
                                                                               
            INCORPORATED INTO HB 136                                           
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  GAYLE HORETSKI                                                               
  Committee Counsel                                                            
  House Judiciary Committee                                                    
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 120                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  465-6841                                                             
  Position Statement: Outlined changes in CSHB 113 (JUD) and                   
                      CSHB 137 (JUD)                                           
                                                                               
  JUDY MATHIS, Legislative Aide                                                
    to Representative Ron Larson                                               
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 502                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  465-3878                                                             
  Position Statement: Answered questions related to HB 113                     
                                                                               
  JIM FORBES                                                                   
  Assistant Attorney General                                                   
  Department of Law                                                            
  1031 West Fourth Avenue, Suite 200                                           
  Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                      
  Phone:  269-5100                                                             
  Position Statement: Answered questions on HB 113                             
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER                                                  
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 116                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  465-2647                                                             
  Position Statement: Prime sponsor of HB 137 and HB 136                       
                                                                               
  DANA LATOUR                                                                  
  Special Assistant to the Commissioner                                        
  Department of Corrections                                                    
  P. O. Box 112000                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99811                                                         
  Phone:  465-3376                                                             
  Position Statement: Provided information related to HB 137                   
                                                                               
  RICH COLLUM                                                                  
  Director                                                                     
  Parole Board                                                                 
  P. O. Box 112000                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99811                                                         
  Phone:  465-3384                                                             
  Position Statement: Provided information and answered                        
                      questions related to HB 137                              
                                                                               
  JAN HANSEN                                                                   
  Director                                                                     
  Division of Public Assistance                                                
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P. O. Box 110640                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99811                                                         
  Phone:  465-3347                                                             
  Position Statement: Provided information and answered                        
                      questions related to HB 137 and HB 67                    
                                                                               
  JUANITA HENSLEY                                                              
  Chief, Driver Services                                                       
  Division of Motor Vehicles                                                   
  Department of Public Safety                                                  
  P. O. Box 20020                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  Phone:  465-4335                                                             
  Position Statement:  Discussed HB 136                                        
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MIKE FORD                                                                    
  Attorney                                                                     
  Legislative Affairs Agency                                                   
  Division of Legal Services                                                   
  130 Seward Street, Suite 404                                                 
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  465-2450                                                             
  Position Statement:  Discussed HB 136                                        
                                                                               
  MARGOT KNUTH                                                                 
  Assistant Attorney General                                                   
  Department of Law                                                            
  Criminal Division                                                            
  P. O. Box 110300                                                             
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                    
  Phone:  465-3428                                                             
  Position Statement:  Discussed HB 136                                        
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 113                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  CHARITABLE & TELEPHONIC SOLICITING/SALES                       
  BILL VERSION: CSHB 113(FIN)                                                  
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) LARSON                                       
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act regulating the solicitation of contributions                  
  by charitable organizations and paid solicitors and the                      
  solicitation of sales by telephonic means; and amending                      
  Alaska Rules of Civil Procedure 79 and 82."                                  
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/01/93       199    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/01/93       199    (H)   LABOR & COMMERCE, FINANCE                        
  02/10/93       290    (H)   JUD REFERRAL ADDED, FOLLOWING                    
                              L&C                                              
  03/04/93              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 17                       
  03/04/93              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                      
  03/05/93       542    (H)   L&C RPT  5DP                                     
  03/05/93       542    (H)   DP: PORTER,SITTON,MULDER,GREEN,                  
                              HUDSON                                           
  03/05/93       542    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE  (LAW)                         
                              3/5/93                                           
  03/15/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  03/15/93              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  03/19/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 137                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  PAROLE OF TERMINALLY ILL PRISONERS                             
  BILL VERSION: CSHB 137(JUD)                                                  
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) MULDER                                       
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act authorizing special medical parole for                        
  terminally ill prisoners."                                                   
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/05/93       238    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/05/93       238    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  02/25/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/01/93       480    (H)   HES RPT  6DP 1NR                                 
  03/01/93       480    (H)   DP: VEZEY, BUNDE, TOOHEY,                        
                              OLBERG                                           
  03/01/93       480    (H)   DP: B.DAVIS, BRICE                               
  03/01/93       480    (H)   NR: NICHOLIA                                     
  03/01/93       480    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE  (CORR)                        
                              3/1/93                                           
  03/19/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 67                                                                 
  SHORT TITLE:  ELIGIBILITY FOR PUBLIC ASSISTANCE                              
  BILL VERSION: SCS CSHB 67(FIN)(EFD FLD)                                      
  SPONSOR(S):   RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                               
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to eligibility for and payments of                   
  public assistance."                                                          
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  01/15/93        86    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/15/93        86    (H)   HEALTH, EDUCATION & SS,                          
                              JUDICIARY,FINANCE                                
  01/15/93        86    (H)   -6 FNS (6-DHSS)  1/15/93                         
  01/15/93        86    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  02/10/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/10/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/22/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/22/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/25/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/02/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/02/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/05/93       541    (H)   HES RPT  CS(HES) 3DP 3DNP 3NR                    
  03/05/93       542    (H)   DP: VEZEY, BUNDE, OLBERG                         
  03/05/93       542    (H)   DNP: B.DAVIS, BRICE, NICHOLIA                    
  03/05/93       542    (H)   NR: KOTT, G.DAVIS, TOOHEY                        
  03/05/93       542    (H)   -2 FISCAL NOTES (HES) 3/5/93                     
  03/05/93       542    (H)   -4 PREVIOUS FNS(DHSS)  1/15/93                   
  03/15/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
  03/15/93              (H)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  03/19/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 136                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  DRUNK DRIVING AND BREATH TEST OFFENSES                         
  BILL VERSION: CSHB 136(FIN)                                                  
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) MULDER                                       
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to revocation of and limitations on                  
  a driver's license to the offenses of driving while                          
  intoxicated and refusal to submit to a breath test; imposing                 
  a limited license fee; amending Alaska Rule of Civil                         
  Procedure 32(b); and providing for an effective date."                       
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/05/93       238    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/05/93       238    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  02/25/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/02/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/02/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/05/93       543    (H)   HES RPT  CS(HES) NEW TITLE  3DP                  
                              6NR                                              
  03/05/93       543    (H)   DP: B.DAVIS, NICHOLIA, BRICE                     
  03/05/93       543    (H)   NR: KOTT, VEZEY, G.DAVIS,                        
                              BUNDE,                                           
  03/05/93       543    (H)   NR: OLBERG, TOOHEY                               
  03/05/93       543    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE  (CORR) 3/5/93                      
  03/05/93       543    (H)   -2 ZERO FNS (DPS, LAW)  3/5/93                   
  03/19/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 138                                                                
  SHORT TITLE:  LIMITED DRIVERS' LICENSES                                      
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S):   REPRESENTATIVE(S) PORTER,Ulmer,Carney                          
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to limitations on a drivers'                         
  license; imposing a limited license fee; and providing for                   
  an effective date."                                                          
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                     
  02/08/93       253    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/08/93       254    (H)   STATE AFFAIRS, JUDICIARY,                        
                              FINANCE                                          
  03/04/93              (H)   STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL 102                      
  03/04/93              (H)   MINUTE(STA)                                      
  03/05/93       543    (H)   STA RPT  5DP                                     
  03/05/93       543    (H)   DP: KOTT, B.DAVIS, OLBERG,                       
                              VEZEY, G.DAVIS                                   
  03/05/93       544    (H)   -ZERO FISCAL NOTE  (DPS)                         
                              3/5/93                                           
  03/05/93       544    (H)   REFERRED TO JUDICIARY                            
  03/19/93              (H)   JUD AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 120                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-37, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  The House Judiciary Standing Committee meeting was called to                 
  order at 1:12 p.m., on March 19, 1993.  A quorum was                         
  present.  Chairman Porter announced that the committee would                 
  address HB 113 first.                                                        
                                                                               
  HB 113:  CHARITABLE & TELEPHONIC SOLICITING/SALES                            
                                                                               
  Number 055                                                                   
                                                                               
  GAYLE HORETSKI, COMMITTEE COUNSEL, HOUSE JUDICIARY                           
  COMMITTEE, outlined changes that appeared in a draft                         
  committee substitute for HB 113 (CSHB 113 (JUD)), dated                      
  March 18, 1993.  The first change was located on page 2,                     
  line 19.  She stated that the phrase "solicit payment for                    
  the purchase" had been added.  She commented that this                       
  language explained what a telephonic seller could and could                  
  not do regarding a written contract.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 125                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI noted that the criminal penalties section of                    
  HB 113 had been clarified, at the recommendation of the                      
  Department of Law (DOL).  She called members' attention to                   
  page 3, lines 23-30 of CSHB 113 (JUD).  She said that the                    
  criminal penalties' section was a two-tiered system.  A                      
  person would be guilty of a class C felony if he or she                      
  violated the law by trying to sell without having the                        
  written contract for soliciting payment.  If other                           
  provisions of HB 113 were violated, however, a person would                  
  be charged with a class A misdemeanor.                                       
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI stated that the next change appeared on page 4,                 
  lines 6-8.  She said that persons registered with the United                 
  States Securities Commission, when acting within the scope                   
  of their license, had been added to the list of exemptions                   
  in HB 113.  She said that this change had been made because                  
  the securities industry was already heavily regulated under                  
  federal law.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 140                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI noted that a change had been made regarding the                 
  length of time records had to be kept.  In earlier versions                  
  of HB 113, she said, records were required to be kept for                    
  three years.  That period had now been extended to five                      
  years, she stated.  She called members' attention to page 9,                 
  line 4, and page 11, line 3, where that particular change                    
  was contained.                                                               
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI cited new language in the criminal penalties                    
  provision of the charitable organization section of CSHB 113                 
  (JUD).  She said that the new language appeared on page 10,                  
  lines 7-9, and was clarifying language suggested by the DOL.                 
                                                                               
  Number 165                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GAIL PHILLIPS asked why embalmers and funeral                 
  home directors were exempted from the provisions of HB 113.                  
                                                                               
  Number 170                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUDY MATHIS, LEGISLATIVE AIDE TO REPRESENTATIVE RON LARSON,                  
  PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 113, replied that those particular                       
  professions were already regulated by another agency.  She                   
  noted that Assistant Attorney General Jim Forbes could more                  
  thoroughly answer Representative Phillips' question.                         
                                                                               
  Number 176                                                                   
                                                                               
  JIM FORBES, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF LAW,                   
  spoke via telephone from Anchorage.  He commented that                       
  embalmers and funeral home directors were already                            
  specifically covered by the Consumer Protection Act.  He                     
  said that including them in HB 113 would be duplicative.  He                 
  noted that they could still solicit business over the                        
  telephone without registering with the DOL.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 195                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked Mr. Forbes to clarify his                      
  remarks.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 202                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. FORBES responded that by being exempt from HB 113's                      
  provisions, the only thing that funeral home directors and                   
  embalmers were permitted to do was solicit business by                       
  telephonic means, without registering with the DOL.  If the                  
  exemption was eliminated, he noted, they would merely have                   
  to register with the DOL before soliciting business by                       
  telephonic means.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 234                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN asked if the exemption for people                   
  registered with the United States Securities Commission                      
  applied to stockbrokers.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 245                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. FORBES believed that the exemption applied to                            
  stockbrokers.  He commented that people in the securities'                   
  business solicited two types of business over the telephone:                 
  the sale of securities, and the sale of stockbroker                          
  services.  He said that the bill had been recently amended                   
  to cover both of these types of sales, as earlier versions                   
  of HB 113 had merely covered the sale of securities.  He                     
  commented that the securities industry was already very                      
  heavily regulated.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 274                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN BRIAN PORTER stated that HB 113 would help to deal                  
  with the problem of fraudulent use of telemarketing.                         
                                                                               
  Number 284                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a MOTION to ADOPT CSHB 113 (JUD).                  
  There being no objection, IT WAS SO ORDERED.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 290                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN made a MOTION to MOVE CSHB 113 (JUD)                    
  out of committee, with individual recommendations and a zero                 
  fiscal note.  There being no objection, IT WAS SO ORDERED.                   
                                                                               
  Number 309                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that the next item of business                     
  before the committee was HB 137.                                             
                                                                               
  HB 137:  PAROLE OF TERMINALLY ILL PRISONERS                                  
                                                                               
  Number 315                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI called members' attention to a draft committee                  
  substitute for the bill, dated March 19, 1993 (CSHB 137                      
  (JUD)).                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 326                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER, PRIME SPONSOR of HB 137, said                   
  that the bill was an outgrowth of the Alaska Sentencing                      
  Commission's recommendations.  He commented that within the                  
  criminal justice system, there was always a trade-off                        
  between protecting the community and the cost that society                   
  was willing to pay.  He was of the opinion that HB 137 would                 
  diminish cost, while at the same time not pose a threat to                   
  the safety of the community.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 346                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said that HB 137 would give the Parole                 
  Board the ability to give special medical parole to                          
  terminally ill prisoners.  He did not envision that this                     
  special medical parole would be used often, nor would it be                  
  used if a prisoner was thought to be a threat to society.                    
  He noted that the intention of the bill was to give the                      
  Parole Board some discretion.                                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that giving a terminally ill                    
  prisoner special medical parole would result in the                          
  financial obligation of that prisoner's medical care being                   
  transferred from the Department of Corrections (DOC) to                      
  Medicaid or Medicare.  He cited one prisoner who had already                 
  cost the state thousands of dollars in medical costs.  He                    
  said that, in the long term, HB 137 would have an impact on                  
  HIV-positive prisoners who developed full-blown cases of                     
  AIDS later.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 379                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked the sponsor at what point a                       
  prisoner would be considered to no longer be a threat to                     
  society.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 390                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER responded that CSHB 113 (JUD) sought                   
  to more clearly and narrowly define who was a terminally ill                 
  prisoner.  He commented that the Parole Board was by nature                  
  very cautious, and reluctant to issue parole.  He said that                  
  the board would not issue parole to a prisoner who was                       
  deemed a threat to society.                                                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said that a prisoner who had cancer                     
  could still be capable of committing many crimes.                            
                                                                               
  Number 428                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER reiterated his belief that the Parole                  
  Board would make use of the special medical parole for                       
  terminally ill prisoners in very rare circumstances, often                   
  when a prisoner was on his or her deathbed.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 433                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JIM NORDLUND asked the sponsor how terminally                 
  ill prisoners were currently cared for.                                      
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER understood that the state currently                    
  bore the cost of providing medical care to terminally ill                    
  prisoners, even if that care had to be provided outside of                   
  the correctional facility.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 447                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER indicated that a representative from the DOC                 
  was present.  He commented that any situation that required                  
  hospitalization for a prisoner resulted in not only medical                  
  costs to the state, but also the cost of a guard to                          
  accompany that prisoner.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 461                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked if there were ever situations                  
  in which terminally ill prisoners resided in hospitals,                      
  under guard.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 466                                                                   
                                                                               
  DANA LATOUR, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE COMMISSIONER OF THE                    
  DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS, cited the case of one prisoner,                   
  who had cost the state over $500,000 in medical costs over                   
  the last 18 months.  That prisoner had had triple bypass                     
  surgery, she said.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 476                                                                   
                                                                               
  RICH COLLUM, DIRECTOR OF THE PAROLE BOARD, commented that                    
  that particular prisoner was eligible for parole; however,                   
  the prisoner's attorney would not agree to apply for parole.                 
  He noted that not many people would be affected by HB 137,                   
  but that even reaching a few prisoners could save the state                  
  a great deal of money.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 483                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked why a person could not collect                 
  Medicaid or Medicare while in prison.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 497                                                                   
                                                                               
  JAN HANSEN, DIRECTOR, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL                        
  SERVICES (DHSS), DIVISION OF PUBLIC ASSISTANCE (DPA),                        
  indicated her understanding that persons in correctional                     
  facilities were not eligible for Medicaid.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 504                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if the federal government,                     
  through Medicaid or Medicare, would allow the state to                       
  abrogate its responsibility toward prisoners.                                
                                                                               
  Number 512                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HANSEN replied that she could only speak to the                          
  mechanism by which a person would qualify for Medicaid or                    
  Medicare.  She commented that a terminally ill released                      
  prisoner could very likely meet the guidelines for aid to                    
  the disabled.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 529                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked about a situation in which a                   
  terminally ill prisoner, from a wealthy family, was released                 
  from prison on special medical parole.  "Could that person                   
  or his or her family sue the state for not continuing to pay                 
  the cost of that person's medical care?" she asked.                          
                                                                               
  Number 542                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM replied that parole had to be accepted by a                       
  prisoner, under conditions specified, which could include                    
  that he or she take care of financial responsibilities.                      
                                                                               
  Number 546                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS questioned whether or not a person                   
  could be paroled without his or her consent.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 550                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM replied that a prisoner could not be paroled                      
  without his or her consent.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 554                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM thanked Representative Mulder for being open to                   
  the suggestions of the Parole Board.  He felt that CSHB 137                  
  (JUD) was a greatly improved version of the original bill.                   
  He was still somewhat concerned about the bill's treatment                   
  of the term "terminally ill."  He said that the bill now                     
  stated that the DOC would develop regulations regarding the                  
  definition of "terminally ill," and suggested that the                       
  committee give the DOC some guidelines for creating that                     
  definition.                                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM believed that HB 137 was primarily directed at                    
  HIV-positive prisoners.  He said that it was known most                      
  people who tested positive for HIV eventually died of AIDS                   
  or related complications, but sometimes not for years after                  
  they were found to carry HIV.  He said that the parole board                 
  would feel more comfortable with granting special medical                    
  parole if specific conditions could be attached to that                      
  parole, including cooperation with public health officials,                  
  a prohibition against selling blood, and informing sexual                    
  partners and household members of the illness.                               
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM said that the Parole Board had been told by both                  
  the state's epidemiologist and the DOC's attorney that they                  
  could not treat people differently because of some medical                   
  problem.  He noted that the board wanted to be able to set                   
  conditions of parole for prisoners released due to terminal                  
  illness.  He commented that dealing with terminally ill                      
  prisoners was not new to the DOC or the state.  He said that                 
  the governor occasionally granted a pardon to a terminally                   
  ill prisoner.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 603                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked how the state could                            
  sufficiently control a paroled AIDS patient, so as to                        
  guarantee that that person did not pass his or her infection                 
  on to others.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 612                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM noted his similar concerns.  He said that some of                 
  the definitions of "terminally ill" that he had heard                        
  related to bedridden individuals who were incapable of                       
  hurting anyone.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 620                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS stated that a person who only                        
  recently contracted AIDS was terminally ill, because he or                   
  she would not recover.  Yet, she said, that person might be                  
  in the same physical condition as any healthy person.  She                   
  asked Mr. Collum if he wanted the legislature to define                      
  "terminally ill."                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 627                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM commented that the legislature had to be                          
  comfortable with the definition of "terminally ill."  He                     
  stated that there were two types of parole:  mandatory and                   
  discretionary.  He said that mandatory parole was granted to                 
  those prisoners who earned "good time" prior to their                        
  release.  That type of parole was not consensual, he noted.                  
  He said that some of the prisoners released on mandatory                     
  parole might have AIDS, but noted that their supervising                     
  parole officers were not aware of that.  He expressed a                      
  desire for the legislature to develop better supervisory                     
  conditions for paroled prisoners.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 646                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked Mr. Collum what the Parole                     
  Board's definition of "terminally ill" was.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 650                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM replied that the Parole Board currently                           
  experienced no situations in which they applied a definition                 
  of "terminally ill."  He had spoken with the DOC's doctor,                   
  who stated that three doctors would be involved in any                       
  decision about whether or not a prisoner was terminally ill.                 
  Beyond that, he said that it was not clear to him what the                   
  definition of "terminally ill" would be.  He had heard                       
  people say that the definition referred to a person who was                  
  bedridden to the point that doctors felt he or she was                       
  unable to commit another crime.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 660                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN called Mr. Collum's attention to page                   
  5, line 13 of CSHB 137 (JUD), subsection (17), in which a                    
  condition of special medical parole could be that a released                 
  prisoner refrain from participating in an activity that may                  
  endanger the public.  He asked if the Parole Board could use                 
  that provision to require that a released prisoner not                       
  engage in activities that could result in transmission of                    
  the AIDS virus.  He further asked if that provision would                    
  relieve the legislature's anxiety about the Parole Board                     
  granting special medical parole to a person infected with                    
  the AIDS virus.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 696                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM commented that criteria now used by the Parole                    
  Board in granting discretionary parole, and that same                        
  criteria which was contained in HB 137, included that a                      
  prisoner would not pose a threat to the public if she or he                  
  were placed on parole.  He noted that Representative Green                   
  was not referring to criteria used for granting parole, but                  
  rather conditions for supervision once a prisoner had been                   
  released on parole.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 705                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Collum if, as a condition of                  
  release on parole, an AIDS patient would have to be                          
  bedridden, in order to not be considered a threat to the                     
  public.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 711                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM was of the opinion that the condition set out in                  
  subsection (17) would have nothing to do with a                              
  determination about the definition of "terminal illness."                    
  He called Representative Green's attention to page 5, lines                  
  22-24, which contained a definition of "special medical                      
  parole."  He noted that definition appeared to be the only                   
  definition of who would be eligible for that particular type                 
  of parole.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 722                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented that the definition of                        
  "special medical parole" did not guarantee society that a                    
  person suffering from AIDS, who was released on special                      
  medical parole, would not be out infecting innocent members                  
  of the public.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 732                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM replied that the wording in proposed AS 33.16.085                 
  could be strengthened to say that a prisoner could not pose                  
  a threat of harm to the public.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 738                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN was concerned that the bill as                          
  currently drafted was placing too much trust in the parolee.                 
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM mentioned that prisoners who had been released on                 
  mandatory parole could have their parole revoked if they                     
  violated the conditions of their parole.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 754                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES commented that AIDS patients                  
  were already being released on mandatory parole.  She noted                  
  that the state currently had no control over those parolees,                 
  in terms of whether or not they infected others.  She was of                 
  the opinion that the state might be liable if it prematurely                 
  released an AIDS-infected prisoner on parole.                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES stated that in addition to the                          
  financial aspects, there were other advantages to paroling                   
  terminally ill prisoners, including allowing a dying person                  
  to spend time with his or her family.  She believed that                     
  putting the cut-off point for releasing a prisoner on                        
  special medical parole at the point at which they became                     
  bedridden would probably not result in a large cost-savings                  
  for the state.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 782                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM mentioned the Neokok decision from a number of                    
  years back, in which the DOC had paid an out-of-court                        
  settlement of approximately $6 million because of its                        
  failure to warn the community about a parolee who was                        
  dangerous.  He said that the Parole Board wanted to be able                  
  to treat people released on special medical parole as                        
  criminals, rather than as regular members of the community.                  
                                                                               
  Number 795                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS liked the idea of special medical                    
  parole for terminally ill prisoners, and supported HB 137.                   
  However, she said that the committee should amend the bill                   
  so as to better define "terminally ill."                                     
                                                                               
  Number 800                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that HB 137 gave the Parole                   
  Board the discretion to determine whether or not releasing a                 
  terminally ill prisoner was in the state's best interest.                    
  She said that it would be difficult for the legislature to                   
  define "terminally ill" in such a way that it would cover                    
  situations which the legislature wanted to include, and not                  
  cover situations which the legislature did not want to                       
  include.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 805                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM was completely comfortable with the current                       
  Parole Board making determinations of that nature.  However,                 
  he said that he might not be so comfortable with future                      
  members of the Parole Board.                                                 
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-37, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI discussed changes incorporated into CSHB 137                    
  (JUD), dated March 19, 1993.  The first change, she said,                    
  appeared on page 2, line 25.  New language had been added to                 
  allow the DOC's Commissioner to apply for parole on a                        
  prisoner's behalf.  She said that this was an attempt to                     
  solve the problem of a prisoner who might not want to be                     
  paroled, preferring instead to have the state pay his or her                 
  medical costs.                                                               
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI stated that from page 2, line 26, through page                  
  4, line 6, was all new language.  She noted that the rest of                 
  CSHB 137 (JUD) was the same as the original bill.  She                       
  mentioned that there already existed in statute standards                    
  for releasing prisoners on discretionary parole.  With one                   
  exception, she noted, those standards were placed in the                     
  section on special medical parole.  The first standard,                      
  regarding terminal illness, however, was not from the other                  
  list of standards, she said.                                                 
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI noted that one existing standard for release on                 
  discretionary parole was dropped.  That standard said that a                 
  prisoner's rehabilitation and reintegration into society                     
  would be furthered by release on parole.  She said that the                  
  committee could add a requirement that the parolee have some                 
  degree of incapacitation to this set of standards.  However,                 
  she commented that it might be difficult to predict all of                   
  the situations in which the bill might apply.  She noted                     
  that CSHB 137 (JUD) was considerably more restrictive than                   
  the original bill.                                                           
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI called members' attention to a provision on                     
  page 3, line 5, which specifically allowed the Parole Board                  
  to rescind or revise an individual's parole.  That, she                      
  said, could occur if an individual was not abiding by the                    
  conditions of his or her parole.  She stated that CSHB 137                   
  (JUD) included a provision allowing victims to be notified                   
  and to comment when an offender was being considered for                     
  release on special medical parole.  She said that this                       
  language had been lifted from existing provisions of the                     
  Alaska Statutes.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 158                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented that the provision on page 3,                 
  line 1 of CSHB 137 (JUD) adequately addressed the concerns                   
  he expressed earlier.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 176                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER said that if the committee were to write a                   
  definition of "terminally ill" that covered worst-case                       
  scenarios, they would likely negate the intent of the bill.                  
  He felt comfortable with the current construction of HB 137.                 
  He noted that currently, when mandatory parole was granted,                  
  the problem of what would keep a criminal from committing                    
  more crimes existed in every case.  He recognized the                        
  potential for someone with HIV to infect another individual.                 
  However, in reality, he said that many prisoners who carried                 
  HIV were released simply because their sentences had ended.                  
                                                                               
  Number 195                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that any responsibility that the state                 
  had regarding HIV-positive prisoners released on parole                      
  already existed.  He was comfortable with giving the Parole                  
  Board the authority to examine each case on an individual                    
  basis.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 209                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented that there was a distinct                     
  difference between releasing HIV-positive prisoners at the                   
  end of their sentences and releasing prisoners because they                  
  had AIDS.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 218                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS was still uncomfortable with the                     
  lack of a definition of "terminally ill" in the bill.  She                   
  thought that she had heard Mr. Collum state that the                         
  legislature should include a definition of "terminally ill"                  
  in HB 137.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 231                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. LATOUR said that the DOC had considered suggesting that                  
  its Medical Advisory Board review and prepare a report to                    
  the Parole Board that would determine whether or not a                       
  candidate for special medical parole was terminally ill.                     
  She said that when the DOC first began working on HB 137,                    
  there had been talk about defining a terminally ill person                   
  as someone who was likely to live one year or less.  She                     
  said that later, discussion expanded to include people who                   
  might live longer than one year, but who would require                       
  ongoing, expensive medical care.                                             
                                                                               
  MS. LATOUR stated that the Medical Advisory Board currently                  
  sometimes prepared reports on prisoners being considered for                 
  discretionary parole.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 264                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER commented that the Alaska Parole Board                 
  was very proud of its record of exercising caution when                      
  granting prisoners parole.  He said that the board needed to                 
  be granted a certain amount of flexibility, because it would                 
  be difficult for the legislature to envision the scope of                    
  all situations to which special medical parole could be                      
  applied.  He felt very comfortable giving the Parole Board                   
  flexibility.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 301                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER believed that it would be difficult to                       
  adequately define "terminally ill" in HB 137.                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked Mr. Collum to contact the                      
  legislature in the future, if he wished for there to be a                    
  statutory definition of "terminally ill."                                    
                                                                               
  Number 331                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CLIFF DAVIDSON, speaking via teleconference                   
  from Kodiak, asked if the legislature was doing itself a                     
  disservice by not including strict guidelines in HB 137.  He                 
  noted that although Representative Mulder might feel                         
  comfortable with the current Parole Board, he might feel                     
  differently in the future, when the members of the Parole                    
  Board changed.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 357                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER commented that parole was based on an                  
  educated guess, and said that there were no guarantees.  He                  
  applauded the work of the present Parole Board, and                          
  expressed his belief that future Parole Boards would have                    
  the same judicious nature.                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON cited the vengeance factor of some                   
  prisoners.  He noted that his comfort level was not as high                  
  as that of Representative Mulder.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 393                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES asked if the committee needed to add                    
  language to HB 137 regarding the DOC's Medical Advisory                      
  Board.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 399                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. COLLUM did not know whether or not inclusion of that                     
  language was appropriate.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 410                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if that could be accomplished through                  
  the regulatory process.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 412                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. LATOUR replied that HB 137 did not provide the                           
  opportunity for the DOC to write regulations.                                
                                                                               
  Number 413                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HORETSKI expressed her opinion that HB 137 provided the                  
  opportunity for the DOC to adopt regulations, through the                    
  amendment of an existing statute, located on page 2, line 14                 
  of CSHB 137 (JUD).                                                           
                                                                               
  MS. LATOUR reviewed the language and agreed that the DOC                     
  would have the authority to adopt regulations in this area.                  
                                                                               
  Number 432                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES made a MOTION to ADOPT CSHB 137 (JUD)                   
  dated March 19, 1993.  There being no objection, IT WAS SO                   
  ORDERED.                                                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES then made a MOTION to MOVE CSHB 137                     
  (JUD) out of committee with individual recommendations and a                 
  zero fiscal note.  There being no objection, IT WAS SO                       
  ORDERED.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 447                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that HB 67 was the next item of                    
  business before the committee.  He mentioned that                            
  Representative Nordlund had amendments to offer.                             
                                                                               
  HB 67:  ELIGIBILITY FOR PUBLIC ASSISTANCE                                    
                                                                               
  Number 465                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked if the committee was working                   
  off of CSHB 67 (JUD).                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS reminded the committee that they had                 
  adopted CSHB 67 (JUD) at the last meeting where HB 67 had                    
  been discussed.                                                              
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND noted that the AMENDMENT which he                    
  had just distributed pertained to CSHB 67 (HES).  He said                    
  that his amendment would delay the effective date of the                     
  bill.  He stated that the bill before the committee would                    
  take effect on July 1, 1993.  His amendment would change the                 
  effective date to January 1, 1994, he said.  He added that                   
  the reason he was offering the amendment was to give welfare                 
  recipients sufficient time to plan for the drastic reduction                 
  to their monthly income.  He noted that his amendment would                  
  result in a reduction of savings to the state.                               
                                                                               
  Number 504                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE GREEN suggested changing the reference in the                 
  proposed amendment from "page 3, line 26" to "page 3, line                   
  24".                                                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND commented that he had not altered                    
  his amendments to comport with CSHB 67 (JUD).  He noted that                 
  staff had informed him that Representative Green's change                    
  would be appropriate.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 520                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES commented that Representative                           
  Nordlund's amendment would result in the savings to the                      
  state for fiscal year 1994 being decreased by half, or                       
  $217,000.  Savings to the state for future fiscal years                      
  would remain the same, she added.                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND indicated that his understanding was                 
  the same as that of Representative James.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 531                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HANSEN commented that Representative James' calculations                 
  referred only to the interim assistance section of HB 67.                    
  She noted that the ratable reduction portion of the bill                     
  would result in an $8.6 million dollar savings to the state                  
  for fiscal year 1994, and that the adult public assistance                   
  section of the bill would result in a $4 million savings to                  
  the state for the same fiscal year.                                          
                                                                               
  MS. HANSEN said that if Representative Nordlund's amendment                  
  was adopted, it would reduce the savings to the state for                    
  fiscal year 1994 by half, but she reminded the committee                     
  members that there were six fiscal notes attached to HB 67.                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES expressed serious concerns about                        
  Representative Nordlund's amendment.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 554                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked how Representative Nordlund's                  
  amendment would affect a 77-year-old woman living at the                     
  Glory Hole homeless shelter in Juneau, who had been                          
  mentioned at the last meeting at which HB 67 had been                        
  discussed.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HANSEN could not speak to that particular individual.                    
  However, she commented that the smallest impact for an Aid                   
  to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) recipient would                   
  be $53 per month, and the largest impact would be $175 per                   
  month.  She said that an individual on Aid to the Disabled                   
  would receive $43 less per month.                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND MOVED his AMENDMENT.                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS OBJECTED.  A roll call vote was                      
  taken.  Representatives Nordlund and Davidson voted "YEA."                   
  Representatives Green, Phillips, Kott, James, and Porter                     
  voted "NAY."  And so, the AMENDMENT FAILED.                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER noted that the rules provided that a                         
  committee member participating by telephone could vote on                    
  amendments or other procedural items, but could not                          
  participate in a vote to move a bill, as that required a                     
  signature.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 601                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked the Chairman to clarify what                   
  the action of not adopting the amendment meant.                              
                                                                               
  Number 603                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER replied that the committee had before it                     
  CSHB 67 (JUD), dated March 11, 1993.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 605                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked if the effective date would be                 
  July 1, 1993.                                                                
                                                                               
  Number 606                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER replied in the affirmative.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 609                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND OFFERED ANOTHER AMENDMENT.  He said                  
  that his amendment would bring HB 67 back to the form in                     
  which it was initially introduced by the governor.  He said                  
  that the amendment would allow for a one-year suspension of                  
  the cost of living allowance (COLA), after which there would                 
  be automatic COLAs in future years.  He noted that the DHSS                  
  had indicated that they would support his amendment.  He                     
  commented that state employees received COLAs as a result of                 
  the contract negotiating process.  However, he noted that                    
  public assistance recipients had no one who would bargain                    
  for COLAs on their behalf.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 637                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS stated that Representative                           
  Nordlund's amendment appeared to be essentially identical to                 
  an amendment that he had offered during the previous meeting                 
  on HB 67.  She said that the other amendment had already                     
  been voted down.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 642                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND responded that the amendments were                   
  not identical.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 650                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS countered that the committee had                     
  already voted down parts of Representative Nordlund's                        
  currently proposed amendment.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 657                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER ruled that he would allow the amendment to                   
  be considered, as it was not identical to the previously                     
  offered amendment.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 659                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES expressed concern that the Judiciary                    
  Committee was overstepping its bounds.  She said that HB 67                  
  had received considerable testimony and discussion in the                    
  HESS Committee, which was the committee she believed should                  
  handle substantive changes to the bill.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 668                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND commented that protocol in the House                 
  allowed any committee to make any amendments that it wished,                 
  regardless of the nature of the amendments.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 676                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JAMES reiterated her belief that the HESS                     
  Committee should be the one making substantive changes to                    
  the bill, and that the Judiciary Committee should look at                    
  the judicial aspects of it.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 690                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS cited a rule from Mason's Manual                     
  which held that once an amendment was defeated, that same                    
  amendment could not be brought before a body.  She said that                 
  in essence, Representative Nordlund's recent amendment was                   
  identical to one which he had offered at an earlier meeting.                 
                                                                               
  Number 697                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON commented that some members of the                   
  Judiciary Committee were overly concerned with actions taken                 
  by other committees.  He noted that just as the House did                    
  not jump in and swim with the Senate, neither did the                        
  Judiciary Committee have to jump in and swim with other                      
  committees.  He said that the committee process allowed the                  
  issues to bounce back and forth, making the process a                        
  healthy one.  He hoped that committee members would not be                   
  overly prejudiced by the work of other committees, and give                  
  each bill before the Judiciary Committee a thorough review.                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON asked Ms. Hansen to comment on the                   
  effect of HB 67 on the 77-year-old woman who lived at the                    
  Glory Hole.  He asked Ms. Hansen to compare her monthly                      
  payment today, with what it would be in 1996.                                
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-38, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HANSEN could not speak to that particular individual's                   
  situation.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 010                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON cited more specifics of the                          
  particular individual's situation.  He said that the woman                   
  was a 77-year-old welfare recipient, with no other                           
  dependents and no visible means of support.  He asked Ms.                    
  Hansen to describe the monthly benefit that that person                      
  would receive today, and in 1996, if HB 67 was enacted.                      
                                                                               
  MS. HANSEN replied that a 77-year-old individual receiving                   
  Adult Public Assistance benefits would receive $778 per                      
  month today.  Under CSHB 67 (JUD), she said, the amount                      
  would remain the same, except that part of the $778 was                      
  federally funded, and therefore eligible for a federal COLA.                 
  Approximately 3% would be added to the $447 in federal                       
  funds, she said.                                                             
                                                                               
  Number 059                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND MOVED HIS AMENDMENT.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 065                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS OBJECTED.                                            
                                                                               
  Number 067                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND asked Ms. Hansen to convey the DHSS'                 
  position on his amendment.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 072                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HANSEN said that the DHSS supported the governor's                       
  original HB 67.                                                              
                                                                               
  A roll call vote was taken.  Representatives Nordlund and                    
  Davidson voted "YEA."  Representatives Green, Kott,                          
  Phillips, James, and Porter voted "NAY."  And so, the                        
  AMENDMENT FAILED.                                                            
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that the committee now had the                     
  unamended CSHB 67 (JUD) before it.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 095                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS made a MOTION to MOVE CSHB 67 (JUD)                  
  out of committee with individual recommendations.                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE NORDLUND OBJECTED.  A roll call vote was                      
  taken.  Representatives Kott, Green, Phillips, James, and                    
  Porter voted "YEA."  Representative Nordlund voted "NAY."                    
  And so, CSHB 67 (JUD) MOVED out of committee.                                
                                                                               
  Number 110                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER announced that HB 136 was the next item of                   
  business before the committee.                                               
                                                                               
  HB 136:  DRUNK DRIVING AND BREATH TEST OFFENSES                              
                                                                               
  Number 125                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE ELDON MULDER, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 136                         
  commented that HB 136 included another recommendation from                   
  the Sentencing Commission's report.  He said that the report                 
  advocated alternative sentencing for Driving While                           
  Intoxicated (DWI) offenses.  He said that his bill was a                     
  cooperative effort among himself, Mothers Against Drunk                      
  Driving (MADD), the DOC, the DOL, the Court System, and the                  
  Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV).                                            
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said that HB 136 was introduced to                     
  address the tremendous backlog within the court system                       
  pertaining to DWI offenders serving their sentences.  He                     
  said that HB 136 held that DWI offenders would serve their                   
  sentences in halfway houses, and would pay for the cost of                   
  their incarceration.                                                         
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said that currently, it costs the                      
  state approximately $140-160 per day to house an offender in                 
  a jail or prison.  He said that incarcerating DWI offenders                  
  in halfway houses would cost 1/3 to 1/2 of that amount.  He                  
  said that HB 136 would require an offender to pay for the                    
  cost of her or his incarceration at the time of sentencing.                  
  The court would be allowed to tap an offender's Permanent                    
  Fund Dividend check if the offender refused to pay the cost                  
  of the incarceration.                                                        
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said that when an offender served time                 
  at a halfway house, he or she would also be required to                      
  perform 24 hours of community service.  He said that this                    
  was what would happen to a first-time DWI offender, or a                     
  person who refused to take a breath test.  He said further                   
  that a person convicted of a second DWI offense would serve                  
  20 days in a halfway house.  He noted that the DOC had said                  
  that this was where the greatest cost savings to the state                   
  lay.                                                                         
                                                                               
  HB 138:  LIMITED DRIVERS' LICENSES                                           
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER stated that HB 136 allowed the                         
  department flexibility in that if no halfway house existed                   
  in a particular area, the department could determine an                      
  appropriate facility for a DWI offender to serve his or her                  
  sentence.  He said that the cost of incarceration would be                   
  standardized throughout the state.  He added that provisions                 
  of HB 138 had been rolled into HB 136.  Additionally, he                     
  said, some of the DMV's concerns regarding limited licenses                  
  were addressed in HB 136.                                                    
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER said that currently, a person                          
  convicted of a DWI offense for the first through sixth time                  
  was eligible to apply for a limited license.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 220                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS commented that Representative Mulder                 
  had been very generous in only requiring 80 hours of                         
  community service for second DWI offenders.  She said that                   
  when she had worked on a similar bill in the past, they had                  
  considered requiring 200 hours of community service.                         
                                                                               
  Number 231                                                                   
                                                                               
  JUANITA HENSLEY, CHIEF OF DRIVER SERVICES, DIVISION OF MOTOR                 
  VEHICLES, DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY (DPS), said that in                    
  1990, legislation passed which granted limited licenses for                  
  people convicted of up to a sixth drunk driving offense.                     
  She commented that no fiscal note had accompanied the 1990                   
  legislation; however, the law had impacted both the DMV and                  
  the court system immensely.  Additionally, she said that the                 
  1990 law had taken the state further away from eligibility                   
  for certain federal highway grants.                                          
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY stated that the federal government frowned upon                  
  states giving limited licenses to anyone but first                           
  offenders.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY said that the draft committee substitute before                  
  the committee would bring Alaska one step closer to being                    
  eligible for those federal grants.  She said that HB 136                     
  would allow the DPS and the court to review the record of an                 
  offender whose license was presently suspended, as well.                     
  For individuals whose licenses were revoked for 40 or 50                     
  years, she said, the DPS could choose to shorten the                         
  revocation period, so that a person could see the "light at                  
  the end of the tunnel."                                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 310                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER commented that provisions from HB 138 had                    
  been rolled into HB 136.  He said that the intent of HB 138,                 
  as rolled into HB 136, was to address a problem regarding                    
  driving privileges for persons with multiple drunk driving                   
  convictions.  He noted that HB 136 would give the DMV the                    
  ability to review an individual's record, once the minimum                   
  time for each revocation had passed.                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER commented that it would be very hard for a                   
  person to continue with a regimen of abstinence and                          
  rehabilitation if there was no light at the end of the                       
  tunnel.  Additionally, he said that because limited licenses                 
  had been so problematic, the state would rather have the                     
  ability to get an individual back driving, without the                       
  problems of a limited license.                                               
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE DAVIDSON announced that he had to leave in                    
  order to attend another meeting.  He signed off of the                       
  teleconference at 2:54 p.m.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 366                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked what the current fine was for                  
  persons caught driving in violation of a limited license.                    
                                                                               
  Number 377                                                                   
                                                                               
  MIKE FORD, ATTORNEY, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS AGENCY, DIVISION OF                 
  LEGAL SERVICES, said that existing law was contained in the                  
  draft committee substitute, and that the fine was $1,000.                    
                                                                               
  Number 378                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if a person paid a $1,000 fine                 
  each time she or he was convicted of a drunk driving                         
  offense.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 385                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. FORD commented that the section of the draft committee                   
  substitute which Representative Phillips was looking at,                     
  section 7, pertained to persons who drove without a license.                 
                                                                               
  Number 400                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS noted that a $1,000 fine might not                   
  mean anything to people who did not respect the revocation                   
  of their driver's license.                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. FORD noted that some people were not deterred by                         
  anything, except for being in jail.                                          
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS suggested considering raising the                    
  fine from $1,000 to $10,000.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 403                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARGOT KNUTH, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, CRIMINAL DIVISION,                 
  DEPARTMENT OF LAW, said that the problem, from a law                         
  enforcement perspective, was that many people convicted of                   
  drunk driving offenses did not have even $100.  When a                       
  person had nothing, she said, he or she could lose nothing.                  
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS mentioned the permanent fund                         
  dividend check.                                                              
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH commented that many of these people never even saw                 
  their permanent fund dividend checks, as they had already                    
  gone for child support and other obligations.                                
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS applauded the provision at the                       
  bottom of page 5 of the draft committee substitute, which                    
  said that the cost of imprisonment would not exceed $1,000.                  
                                                                               
  Number 422                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. KNUTH mentioned some technical problems with the draft                   
  committee substitute.  She said that it would be best to                     
  draft another committee substitute before acting on HB 136.                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER asked Mr. Ford when another draft committee                  
  substitute would be available.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 441                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. FORD said that the changes to which Ms. Knuth was                        
  referring were not extensive; however, he cautioned that                     
  HB 136 was complex in nature.  Because of that, he                           
  recommended that all parties have time to digest the bill's                  
  contents and ensure that the bill did what it was intended                   
  to do.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 453                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. HENSLEY commented that the provision on page 4, lines                    
  20-21 of the draft committee substitute, instituting a $100                  
  fee for a limited driver's license, would change the DPS'                    
  fiscal note to be a revenue-generating one.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 465                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER asked if a new committee substitute could be                 
  ready by the following Wednesday.  He said that he shared                    
  Mr. Ford's concern that all parties have time to digest HB
  136's contents.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 471                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked if the proposed amendments had                 
  been reviewed by the sponsor.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 476                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER commented that the draft committee                           
  substitute for HB 136 was the result of a team effort.                       
                                                                               
  Number 479                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE MULDER was unaware that there were problems                   
  with the current draft committee substitute.                                 
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS was concerned that agencies were                     
  bringing amendments to the attention of the Judiciary                        
  Committee without first contacting a bill's sponsor.                         
                                                                               
  Number 482                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER said that HB 136 would be held over until a                  
  new draft committee substitute could be prepared.  He stated                 
  that he would try to reschedule the bill for the following                   
  Wednesday.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 495                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. FORD commented that he could probably have a draft                       
  committee substitute prepared and distributed by Monday,                     
  giving all concerned parties time to review it prior to the                  
  Wednesday meeting.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 506                                                                   
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN PORTER adjourned the meeting at 3:03 p.m.                           

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