Legislature(2009 - 2010)CAPITOL 106
03/19/2009 03:00 PM House HEALTH & SOCIAL SERVICES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB110 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 110 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED |
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE
March 19, 2009
3:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Bob Herron, Co-Chair
Representative Wes Keller, Co-Chair
Representative Bob Lynn
Representative Paul Seaton
Representative Sharon Cissna
Representative Lindsey Holmes
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative John Coghill
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 110
"An Act relating to the practice and licensing of
psychologists."
- HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: HB 110
SHORT TITLE: PSYCHOLOGISTS' LICENSING & PRACTICE
SPONSOR(s): REPRESENTATIVE(s) HERRON
02/04/09 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/04/09 (H) HSS, L&C
03/19/09 (H) HSS AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
MARIANNA CARPENETI, Staff
to Representative Bob Herron
Alaska State Legislature
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented HB 110 on behalf of the prime
sponsor, Representative Herron, and responded to questions.
DR. LORIN BRADBURY, Chair
Board of Psychologist and Psychological Associate Examiners
Bethel, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 110.
DR. PHILLIP BAKER, Legislative Chair
Alaska Psychological Association
Anchorage, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Answered questions regarding HB 110.
DIANE CASTO, Prevention & Early Intervention Manager
Prevention and Early Intervention Section
Division of Behavioral Health
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS)
Juneau, Alaska
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke about HB 110.
ACTION NARRATIVE
3:05:06 PM
CO-CHAIR WES KELLER called the House Health and Social Services
Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:05 p.m.
Representatives Keller, Herron, Seaton, and Holmes were present
at the call to order. Representatives Lynn and Cissna arrived
as the meeting was in progress. Representative Coghill was
excused.
HB 110-PSYCHOLOGISTS' LICENSING & PRACTICE
3:05:39 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER announced that the first order of business would
be HOUSE BILL NO. 110, "An Act relating to the practice and
licensing of psychologists."
3:06:28 PM
CO-CHAIR HERRON, speaking as the prime sponsor of HB 110, said
that the bill was at the request of his constituency.
3:07:05 PM
MARIANNA CARPENETI, Staff to Representative Bob Herron, Alaska
State Legislature, said that HB 110 was introduced at the behest
of the Board of Psychologists and Psychological Associates. She
explained that HB 110 referred to the licensing of psychological
associates. She noted that the most important change was to
amend AS 08.86.180(b) which provided exemptions to the licensing
law. She opined that the current statute was vague, and offered
an impression that employees of the government, educational
institutions, or private agencies could work as a psychologist
without a license. She noted that this was a public safety
issue. She said that the Board of Psychologists and
Psychological Associates suggested that the only exemption be
for school psychologists, under very limited conditions. She
noted that Section 2 of HB 110 also allowed an exemption for an
employee of the federal government while on the discharge of
official duties, which clarified the legal doctrine of federal
pre-emption. She summarized the two additional changes: removal
of the time limit for licensure reexamination; expansion of the
definition "to practice psychology" to now include unpaid
services, which would conform the statute to the American
Psychological Association's model licensure act.
3:09:55 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HOLMES asked to clarify that Section 2(b)(1)
would not have any negative effect on the University of Alaska,
non-profits, Department of Health and Social Services, or the
municipalities.
3:10:38 PM
MS. CARPENETI expressed that it would only have a positive
affect. She reiterated that HB 110 only dealt with people
offering psychological services. She compared psychological
associates to mid-level providers. She declared that HB 110
would ensure the qualifications for psychological associates.
3:12:53 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if there were any other jobs
requiring these qualifications which this bill would impact.
MS. CARPENETI said there were not.
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if there were jobs that had this
examination as criteria for employment. He asked for
clarification of who HB 110 would affect.
MS. CARPENETI, in response to Representative Seaton, said that
the bill was preventative. She explained that in the last year,
there had been two cease and desist orders for individuals
practicing without the proper licensing.
3:16:33 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON referred to Section 1, line 8, of HB 110,
and asked for a definition for psychometry.
3:17:17 PM
DR. LORIN BRADBURY, Chair, Board of Psychologist and
Psychological Associate Examiners, in response to Representative
Seaton, said that HB 110 required licensing, and clarified the
ambiguous language of the statute, in order to make it easier
for interpretation and enforcement.
3:21:08 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER asked if the state had taken action against
anyone practicing as psychologists.
DR. BRADBURY replied that the Board would only receive a notice
of action from the investigative unit, which would include a
letter to cease and desist. He noted that names were not
revealed, unless there was a resistance to compliance.
3:22:09 PM
CO-CHAIR HERRON commented that HB 110 would ensure that no one
without a license could bill for the service.
DR. BRADBURY said that the Board requested public clarification
that no one could practice psychology in Alaska without a
license.
3:23:49 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if a license examination requirement
was to have a recommendation from a licensed psychologist,
regardless of the degree an individual had earned.
DR. BRADBURY replied that an application had to be made to the
licensing board, and then, if the educational requirements were
met, the board would approve the examination. He further
explained that a psychological associate license required 2
years of supervised practice, and a psychologist license
required an additional year of supervision.
3:25:35 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON asked if there were any other jobs that
would require this license. He specified that he wanted to know
who was being restricted from jobs with this bill.
DR. BRADBURY replied that it would prevent someone from stating
that they were a psychologist and having a client. He explained
that the licensing board was responsible for the protection of
the public.
3:28:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA said that many health problems included
mental health problems. She noted that the tribal health system
had community health aides and behavioral health aides, and she
expressed concern that HB 110 would jeopardize these necessary
positions.
DR. BRADBURY responded that it would not impact these positions,
and that HB 110 would only affect those referring to themselves
as psychologists or psychological associates, without the proper
licensing.
3:31:04 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER noted that "psychologist" was not well defined
in the statute. He asked about the exemption for
psychotherapists and psychoanalysts.
3:31:55 PM
DR. BRADBURY said that HB 110 did not address those exemptions,
although he noted that it was standard language from the 1987
APA Model Act for State Licensure of Psychologists. He reported
that an updated model act was currently being drafted. He
referred to AS 08.86.180(d), which guaranteed that other
licensed health professionals were not impacted.
3:33:21 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER referred to the earlier mentioned criteria for a
psychologist which included therapy given to "a client," yet, he
noted in Section 3 that "for a fee" was proposed to be removed
from AS 08.86.230(6). He expressed concern that this proposal
to amend allowed for too broad a context.
3:34:52 PM
DR. PHILLIP BAKER, Legislative Chair, Alaska Psychological
Association, expressed that the current statute allowed for
consumer vulnerability that should be clarified and amended. He
reported that the psychologist services were controlled and
defined and that services were not being provided by people
without the appropriate training. He expressed support for HB
110. In response to an earlier question from Representative
Seaton, he noted that psychometry meant psychological testing.
3:36:21 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON referred to the proposed definition for
"to practice psychology" in Section 3 of HB 110, and asked if
there was anyone else offering these services. He opined that
it was too broad.
3:37:33 PM
DR. BRADBURY clarified that the proposed definition was not
addressing "counseling." He stated that the definition was for
those offering psychological services as psychologists.
3:38:54 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON replied that the proposed definition would
require a license "to practice psychology." He asked for Dr.
Bradbury to interpret Section 3 of HB 110.
3:40:29 PM
DR. BRADBURY explained that Section 3 specifically addressed
those who were licensed to practice independently. He said that
the attorneys for the American Psychological Association (APA)
suggested the removal of "for a fee."
3:42:06 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON detailed the unintended consequence of
amending the definition of "to practice psychology" by removing
"for a fee" in Section 3 of HB 110. He offered his opinion that
everyone who had a prior exemption would now have to be a
licensed psychologist.
3:45:25 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked if the difference between
psychologists and psychiatrists was the authority to prescribe
medication.
DR. BRADBURY agreed, and he noted that psychiatrists were
exempted in Section 2(b)(5).
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked about other distinctions for
psychiatrists which were not listed in Section 3 of HB 110.
DR. BRADBURY replied that a psychiatrist does not engage in
psychological testing.
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked about the use of psychometrics.
DR. BRADBURY agreed that both professions often used the results
of a licensed psychologist to establish a diagnosis.
3:48:39 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA cited examples of counseling services,
including peer counseling for substance abuse and volunteers in
the prisons, which could be included in Section 2 of HB 110.
She expressed a desire for an opinion from Legislative Legal and
Research Services that these classifications of counseling
services were not affected.
DR. BRADBURY, in response to Representative Cissna, referred to
Section 2 of the bill, proposed AS 08.86.180(b)(1), and said
that these aforementioned were peer counselors, and were not
trained to offer psychological services. He said there was not
any intent to affect these peer counselors.
3:53:02 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA clarified that she meant to refer to
Section 3 of the bill, the discussion of "to practice
psychology," and stated that the aforementioned counselors were
not psychologists.
DR. BRADBURY, in response to Representative Cissna, reiterated
that this was the language from the 1987 APA Model Act for State
Licensure of Psychologists.
3:54:25 PM
DR. BAKER, in response to Representative Cissna, said that there
were four mental health licenses and "that all of them were
there to provide mental health care services in urban and rural
areas." He agreed that there were similar services, which
provided psychological services based on training, but not
examination. He explained that this was part of the original
mental health service license. He expressed that, through the
definition of the license, it was possible to define the
practice of psychology. He said that this did not restrict
providers, but that the specialized training allowed specific
providers to call themselves psychologists.
3:58:23 PM
DR. BRADBURY read from AS 08.86.180(d):
Nothing in this section prohibits a licensed clinical
social worker, a licensed marriage or family
therapist, or a licensed professional counselor from
holding out to the public by a title or description of
services incorporating the words psychoanalysis,
psychoanalyst, psychotherapy, psychotherapist, or
psychotherapeutic.
He explained that they are exempted. He also referred to
Section 2(b)(5) of the bill, and noted that a physician was also
exempted. He expressed that there was a great deal of overlap
among the providers.
3:59:59 PM
CO-CHAIR HERRON asked that the statute which Dr. Bradbury read
be included in the members' packets.
4:00:19 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER asked about the psychological associate
examination.
4:00:41 PM
DR. BRADBURY, in response to Co-Chair Keller, spoke about the
two licenses the Board of Psychologists and Psychological
Associates offered: psychologist and psychological associate.
He said that both licenses required the same two-part test,
which included the Examination for Professional Practice in
Psychology (EPPP) exam, and the state law and ethics exam. He
added that this exam was in addition to the educational and
supervisorial criteria.
4:02:24 PM
DIANE CASTO, Prevention & Early Intervention Manager, Prevention
and Early Intervention Section, Division of Behavioral Health,
Department of Health and Social Services (DHSS), reported that
DHSS had discussed the possible impacts to tribal health or
mental health and concluded that HB 110 would not impact its
services. She noted that due to the low number of psychologists
and associate psychologists in Alaska, the majority of
behavioral health services were adequately provided by
a qualified member of another profession, in doing
work of a psychological nature consistent with that
person's training and consistent with the code of
ethics...
She offered her belief that the critical nature was for people
to practice what they had been trained. She noted that there
was training for peer counselors, behavioral health aides,
substance abuse counselors, and providers in the rural human
service program. She clarified that many small communities had
contract psychologists to do the psychological testing. She
referred to the exemption provided by the proposed AS
08.86.180(b)(4) in Section 2 of the bill.
4:07:03 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON referred to Section 3 of the bill, and
asked if the proposed elimination of "for a fee" was of concern
to DHSS. He offered his belief that this proposed change to
Section 3 would eliminate the exemption in Section 2, mentioned
above, and these persons would now be practicing psychology.
4:08:34 PM
MS. CASTO, in response to Representative Seaton, observed that
the definition had been in law for some time. She pointed out
that people did provide services, regardless of a fee or not.
She offered her belief that the definition in Section 3 of the
bill was referring to a specific group, identified as
psychologists. She specified that psychological testing was the
specific training to differentiate the psychologists and the
counselors.
4:11:26 PM
REPRESENTATIVE HOLMES referred to Section 2(b)(4) and questioned
the use of the word "profession" instead of "occupation," as
"profession" was understood to be for a higher level of
education and training. She noted that if a service provider's
role did not have a code of ethics, then it would not be covered
under this proposed subsection.
4:13:09 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER asked about the set rates for reimbursement to
the providers.
4:13:38 PM
MS. CASTO agreed that there were set rates, but that she did not
know the specific rates.
4:14:16 PM
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA mentioned Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) as a
group without formal training but with experience. She endorsed
the need for peer level, non-conventional provider groups. She
reiterated her earlier request for an opinion from Legislative
Legal and Research Services.
4:16:05 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER reiterated the earlier comment by Representative
Seaton that the law was vague, and upon change, the vaguery
became larger.
4:17:22 PM
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN observed that licensing indicated a level of
knowledge and competence.
4:19:46 PM
REPRESENTATIVE SEATON said that the removal of "for a fee"
changed the meaning to include anyone engaged in the activity.
4:20:56 PM
CO-CHAIR HERRON, in response to Representative Seaton,
reiterated the testimony of Dr. Bradbury in which he stated that
the national association of lawyers recommended it.
4:21:58 PM
CO-CHAIR KELLER noted that public testimony would remain open.
[HB 110 was held over.]
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN pointed out that a psychologist offering pro
bono work would be "without a fee."
4:23:13 PM
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Health and Social Services Standing Committee meeting was
adjourned at 4:23 p.m.
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|---|---|
| HB110-M19.PDF |
HHSS 3/19/2009 3:00:00 PM |
HB 110 |
| M19.PDF |
HHSS 3/19/2009 3:00:00 PM |