Legislature(2001 - 2002)
04/11/2002 03:43 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
April 11, 2002
3:43 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Fred Dyson, Chair
Representative Peggy Wilson, Vice Chair
Representative John Coghill
Representative Gary Stevens
Representative Vic Kohring
Representative Sharon Cissna
Representative Reggie Joule
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HOUSE BILL NO. 407
"An Act relating to the certificate of need program."
- MOVED CSHB 407(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 23
Proposing amendments to Uniform Rule 20 of the Alaska State
Legislature; and providing for an effective date for the
amendments.
- MOVED HCR 23 OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 464
"An Act relating to statewide school district correspondence
study programs."
- MOVED CSHB 464(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 407
SHORT TITLE:CERTIFICATE OF NEED PROGRAM
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)COGHILL
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/13/02 2232 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/13/02 2232 (H) CRA, HES
03/04/02 2469 (H) COSPONSOR(S): JAMES
03/13/02 2530 (H) COSPONSOR(S): SCALZI
03/14/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/14/02 (H) Scheduled But Not Heard
03/18/02 2593 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DYSON
03/19/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/19/02 (H) Heard & Held
03/19/02 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/21/02 (H) CRA AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 124
03/21/02 (H) Moved Out of Committee
03/21/02 (H) MINUTE(CRA)
03/22/02 2638 (H) CRA RPT 2DP 2NR 3AM
03/22/02 2638 (H) DP: SCALZI, MEYER; NR: GUESS,
HALCRO;
03/22/02 2638 (H) AM: KERTTULA, MURKOWSKI,
MORGAN
03/22/02 2638 (H) FN1: (HSS)
03/26/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/26/02 (H) Heard & Held
03/26/02 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/28/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/28/02 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(HES)
04/02/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/02/02 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(HES)
04/04/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/04/02 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
04/09/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/09/02 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(HES)
04/11/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HCR 23
SHORT TITLE:LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEES:SPLIT HOUSE HESS
SPONSOR(S): EDUCATION
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/11/02 2204 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/11/02 2204 (H) EDU, HES
02/13/02 (H) EDU AT 8:00 AM CAPITOL 120
02/13/02 (H) Moved Out of Committee
02/13/02 (H) MINUTE(EDU)
02/13/02 2227 (H) EDU RPT 6DP
02/13/02 2227 (H) DP: GREEN, WILSON, JOULE,
GUESS,
02/13/02 2227 (H) STEVENS, BUNDE
02/13/02 2228 (H) FN1: ZERO(H.EDU)
04/04/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/04/02 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
04/09/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/09/02 (H) Heard & Held
MINUTE(HES)
04/11/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 464
SHORT TITLE:SCHOOL DISTRICT CORRESPONDENCE STUDY
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)JAMES
Jrn-Date Jrn-Page Action
02/19/02 2313 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME -
REFERRALS
02/19/02 2313 (H) EDU, HES
02/22/02 2370 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DYSON
02/27/02 2416 (H) REFERRALS CHANGED TO HES, EDU
03/07/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/07/02 (H) Heard & Held
03/07/02 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/13/02 2530 (H) COSPONSOR(S): COGHILL,
KOHRING, GREEN,
03/13/02 2530 (H) FOSTER
03/14/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/14/02 (H) Heard & Held
03/14/02 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/19/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/19/02 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
03/21/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/21/02 (H) -- Meeting Canceled --
03/22/02 2655 (H) COSPONSOR(S): FATE
03/26/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/26/02 (H) Heard & Held
03/26/02 (H) MINUTE(HES)
04/02/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
04/02/02 (H) <Bill Canceled>
04/11/02 (H) HES AT 3:00 PM CAPITOL 106
WITNESS REGISTER
ELMER LINDSTROM, Deputy Commissioner
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110601
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 407; explained department's
fiscal notes and emphasized that there will be a large impact.
KAREN McCARTHY, Staff
to Representative Con Bunde
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room
Juneau, Alaska 99801
POSITION STATEMENT: As committee aide for the House Special
Committee on Education, sponsor of HCR 23, presented the
resolution and answered questions.
CARL ROSE, Executive Director
Association of Alaska School Boards
316 West Eleventh Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1510
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of HCR 23.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 02-31, SIDE A
Number 0001
CHAIR FRED DYSON called the House Health, Education and Social
Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 3:43 p.m.
Representatives Dyson, Wilson, Coghill, Stevens, Kohring,
Cissna, and Joule were present at the call to order. [For
minutes on the overview presentation from the Alaska Suicide
Prevention Council heard jointly with the Senate Health,
Education and Social Services Standing Committee, see the
3:03 p.m. minutes for this date.]
HB 407-CERTIFICATE OF NEED PROGRAM
CHAIR DYSON announced the first order of business, HOUSE BILL
NO. 407, "An Act relating to the certificate of need program."
Number 0110
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING moved to adopt version 22-LS1389\P,
Lauterbach, 4/11/02, as the work draft. There being no
objection, Version P was before the committee.
CHAIR DYSON offered his understanding that Version P is the same
as Version O with [Representative Cissna's conceptual
Amendment 1] that was adopted at the April 9 hearing.
Number 0200
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL moved to adopt Amendment 1, which read
[original punctuation provided]:
Page 7: Delete lines 1 - 4.
Page 7, line 1:
Insert:
COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH PLAN; LIMITATIONS. The plan
required under AS 47.05.010(b), enacted by sec. 11 of
this Act,
(1) It is not intended by the legislature to
be updated periodically;
(2) shall be prepared by the Department of
Health and Social Services by January 1, 2003, and a
copy of it shall be given by the department to the
legislature by that date: and
(3) shall be prepared by using staff and
other resources of the department that are generally
available to perform the duties of the department
without an additional appropriation specifically
designated for preparation of the plan or without an
additional appropriation to fund indirect impact of
existing personnel or resources."
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON objected for purposes of discussion.
Number 0220
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL explained that Amendment 1 would add
"relating to comprehensive health planning" to the title.
Referring to the fact that the amendment to Version O at the
April 9 hearing had been conceptual, he said:
We adopted this by conceptual amendment, basically,
and ... I wanted to look it over and ask legal
drafting to look it over, and this is basically what
[would] come back. And the only thing that we didn't
look at was the date, and Representative Cissna had
... registered some concern about that. And I'm open
to that discussion. But at this point, it would take
the plan that's required and ... then put it in these
three bullets, if you will.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL noted that Amendment 1 [paragraph (1)]
calls for a one-time plan; it is not intended to be updated
periodically, which is in contrast to what is already in
statute, to his recollection. [Under paragraph (2)] it would be
prepared by [the Department of] Health and Social services, and
the date would be 2003, as adopted [in the amendment to
Version O at the previous hearing]. He indicated he wanted it
to be very clear that this [plan is to be developed] within the
resources of the Department of Health and Social Services, which
paragraph (3) accomplishes.
Number 0325
CHAIR DYSON asked whether Representative Cissna was in basic
agreement with Representative Coghill's Amendment 1.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA replied that she was in agreement, but had
real concerns about the date. She indicated she'd requested a
partial copy of the health plan dated June 1984; department
personnel had informed her of what is in place that could be
drawn on for a [future plan]. She stated that there are gaping
holes [in the current state health plan]. She asked if the
department could speak to this matter. She suggested that an
understanding of the missing pieces would give members an idea
of what is reasonable timing for using existing services.
Number 0450
ELMER LINDSTROM, Deputy Commissioner, Department of Health and
Social Services, told the committee he didn't believe the date
to be a relevant matter because, briefly, "No money, no plan."
He said the [1984] report was the last one done by the
department. He explained that rarely a week goes by in the
department in which someone does not say, "I wish we had a
comprehensive health plan.". If the department had the
resources, it would have done a plan. In the absence of
additional resources to develop a comprehensive plan, Mr.
Lindstrom said he thought the plan would not be accomplished.
Number 0519
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA said she was uncertain about the date.
She remarked, "I really care about Alaska and that we survive as
a state in some kind of not-third-world category." Referencing
the [old health plan] with its problems and the preceding
overview presentation by the Alaska Suicide Prevention Council,
she again emphasized the need for a plan. As for the bill,
Representative Cissna said she sees "two perfectly wonderful
sides," without a way to discern the right policy; she expressed
doubt that the committee could arrive at good policy without any
information, which is lacking in critical areas. For example,
there is no health systems data; it doesn't exist.
Number 0599
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL pointed out that there will be a change
in the administration [because the governor's term is up] and
suggested that if this administration is going to say, "No way,"
it might be good to [extend the date to 2004]. He conveyed his
inclination to allow the date to change to 2004 if the
department is required to use existing resources.
CHAIR DYSON offered his conviction that Alaska needs to do some
comprehensive planning in mental health, senior care, health-
service delivery in urban and rural areas, prenatal alcohol
poisoning, child abuse, and alcohol abuse. He stated his
intention of joining [Representative Cissna] in holding some
interim hearings on this matter. He added that other bills in
the committee, pertaining to planning, won't make it [through
the legislative process this session]. He deferred to
Representative Cissna with regard to the date.
Number 0708
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA said no area is as needing of effort as
the medical health [planning] area. She pointed out that mental
health does have a comprehensive plan, as do many areas. She
added, "We really are just ragged in the fastest-growing sector
of our economy, which is really pretty scary. And I agree with
you: this summer, you're on. Let's go for 2004."
CHAIR DYSON announced, "Let the record reflect that
Representative Cissna moves that we amend Amendment 1, line 12,
to January [1,] 2004."
Number 0755
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS objected, saying he didn't see the point
of changing it back. He noted that this is just what was done
at the last meeting - it was changed from 2004 to 2003. He said
his concern at that time was that a lot is being asked to be
done; however, it is not unreasonable to expect that this be
done by 2003. He offered that if the premise is that things
will be different in a new administration, why not simply
consider this bill next year?
CHAIR DYSON said the amendment from Representative Cissna had
been presented suddenly on [April 9], and that perhaps it was
acted upon with less than due diligence. He added:
Several of us have had time to think about it some
more. The reason we did a title change today was to
make sure that Representative Cissna's amendment on
Tuesday did not fail for lack of a broad enough title.
... But it is an amendment to a bill largely aimed ...
on a different subject. So ... you could certainly
argue that a comprehensive study belonged in a bill of
its own, but the reason we're dealing with this one
now is because [of] the interest in modifying the
certificate of need that's come up this year.
CHAIR DYSON acknowledged that Representative Cissna and others
recognize that having better information and comprehensive
planning would be a valuable component in evaluating CONs
[certificates of need]. He expressed his belief that the bill's
sponsor is interested in seeing the bill move forward this year.
When these two subjects were linked, he said, the committee
wound up dealing with the date. He offered his perception that
the real issue is whether it is reasonable to expect - with very
limited resources - to have a valuable product that is able to
be accomplished by January.
Number 0928
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA expressed her view of a "complete tie"
between an evaluation tool and the plan. She said, "I don't
have the tools to make that decision, and I've asked the
department, and they don't have the tools to make ... that
decision." She said perhaps other members felt comfortable
making [this decision], but she didn't.
CHAIR DYSON said he would argue that this is why Representative
Cissna's amendment carried.
Number 0971
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE offered his understanding that when the
amendment passed [on April 9] with the 2003 date, that was
assuming an accompanying fiscal note; the 2004 date and the
clarification that this will be done with existing resources is
the difference between the two dates. He said, "This way, the
bill moves forward without a fiscal note, giving the department
18 months to do something with its existing resources, as
opposed to doing something in 6 months with no additional
resources." He specified that he was speaking in favor of the
amendment to Amendment 1 [to change the date to 2004].
CHAIR DYSON voiced his understanding the Representative Cissna's
amendment [on April 9] called for the plan to be completed with
existing resources and hadn't anticipated a fiscal note. He
asked whether Representative Stevens maintained his objection to
the amendment to [Amendment 1].
Number 1046
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS said yes. He added that Alaska is facing
enormous problems statewide such as the "salmon disaster." He
noted that these problems need serious study, and [if the
amendment to Amendment 1 failed] would be dealt with via a
report to the legislature by January 2003. In response to
Representative Cissna, he said he thought he would support the
2003 date, but indicated he wanted to hear more about it.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA withdrew the amendment to Amendment 1.
Number 1130
CHAIR DYSON asked if there was any objection to Amendment 1.
Hearing no objection, he announced that Amendment 1 was adopted.
MR. LINDSTROM, in response to Chair Dyson, said the department
had prepared two fiscal notes, both dated 4/10/02. One is for
$100,500 for health planning and facilities management, and the
other, from the Division of Medical Assistance, is in the amount
of $4.6 million, for Medicaid services.
CHAIR DYSON observed that Representative Coghill had put before
the committee a zero fiscal note. He requested an explanation.
Number 1210
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL called his zero fiscal note a "direct
challenge to the administration's fiscal note." He said a lot
has to do with how he figured the growth of the economy and the
way some Medicaid reimbursements are calculated. He asked the
committee to recognize that this will not have an actuarial
impact on the state. He said he recognizes the department's
concerns, but drew attention to words in the department's fiscal
note such as may, if, expected, estimates, assumptions, and
unknowns.
CHAIR DYSON asked whether it is correct that even if the bill
passes in its present form, there will be no impact until new
facilities are built, in use, and impacting Medicaid rates and
reimbursement rates.
Number 1293
MR. LINDSTROM agreed, but pointed out that every fiscal note
[from a department] is based on assumptions regarding "somebody
doing something." The department's fiscal note is based on the
best information the department has, he said, and on what the
department believes is most likely to happen, based on the
letters of interest and CON applications. In this case,
however, the decisions of whether to build facilities will be
independent business decisions that the state doesn't control.
MR. LINDSTROM added that the committee has heard widely
divergent testimony on the impacts of the bill. Some
passionately believe [HB 407] is the best thing that could
happen to health care in the state, while others believe it is
the death knell for the health care infrastructure in many
communities.
Number 1346
MR. LINDSTROM noted that everyone believes this bill will have a
significant impact; the department shares this opinion. He
offered that the department could not provide members with
certainty about the exact costs. He referenced his earlier
testimony that a lack of data has hindered [more accurate]
estimates. He stated, "There is ... rarely a bill that goes
through the legislature where it is more abundantly clear that,
yes, there will be a fiscal impact, and it will accrue to the
Medicaid program because the Medicaid program insures one out of
six Alaskans ... in this state."
MR. LINDSTROM referenced an analysis done on behalf of the
Tanana Valley Clinic by Information Insights, dated March 25,
which ultimately concluded that over time the bill - at least
under the assumptions given - would [result in] a savings to the
Medicaid program. He added, "Nevertheless, this analysis
provided by Tanana Valley Clinic indicated in the first year
there would probably be an additional cost of $200,000 to the
Medicaid program if one facility was built in Fairbanks." He
expressed doubt that anyone knew for sure how many facilities
would be built. "There is unanimity, Mr. Chairman, that this
bill is going to have a fiscal impact," he concluded.
CHAIR DYSON concurred, noting that members indeed had heard
conflicting testimony, including testimony about other states.
He announced his intention, out of respect for the department,
to send the bill forward with all three fiscal notes.
CHAIR DYSON called for an at-ease at 4:08 p.m. He called the
meeting back to order at 4:09 p.m.
Number 1450
CHAIR DYSON informed members that an objection for discussion
purposes needed to be withdrawn to [Amendment 1].
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON withdrew her objection.
CHAIR DYSON again asked whether there was any objection to
Amendment 1. There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.
Number 1470
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked about the multiple fiscal notes.
CHAIR DYSON explained that it is within the purview of the
Speaker [of the House] to decide [on a fiscal note]. The
committee is providing the Speaker with a synthesis of the
information it has received about the fiscal notes.
Number 1505
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL moved to report CSHB 407 [version 22-
LS1389\P, Lauterbach, 4/11/02], as amended, out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING objected for discussion purposes. He
said he wasn't comfortable including the three fiscal notes, and
would prefer to adopt the zero fiscal note. He concurred with
Representative Coghill and suggested overhead could be greatly
offset, with a possible result of zero cost or at least much
less cost than the department projects.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING then withdrew his objection, saying
although the legislation doesn't go as far as he would like, he
wanted to move it forward. He reiterated that he didn't agree
with the department's fiscal notes, which are higher than what
he would expect.
Number 1573
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA objected to the motion, explaining that
she believes the state isn't prepared to deal with some of the
problems it is facing, and that the plan needs to be in place
prior to making such choices. In response to Representative
Stevens, she reiterated that she objected to making a choice
without having the tools to do it.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Dyson, Stevens,
Kohring, Joule, Wilson, and Coghill voted to move CSHB 407
[version 22-LS1389\P, Lauterbach, 4/11/02, as amended] from
committee. [Representative Cissna abstained.] Therefore,
CSHB 407(HES) was moved out of the House Health, Education and
Social Services Standing Committee by a vote of 6-0.
HCR 23-LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEES:SPLIT HOUSE HESS
CHAIR DYSON announced the next order of business, HOUSE
CONCURRENT RESOLUTION NO. 23, Proposing amendments to Uniform
Rule 20 of the Alaska State Legislature; and providing for an
effective date for the amendments.
Number 1660
KAREN McCARTHY, Staff to Representative Con Bunde, Alaska State
Legislature, presented HCR 23 on behalf of the House Special
Committee on Education (HEDU), the resolution's sponsor. She
explained that HCR 23 would amend the Uniform Rules to create a
standing House education committee; it would reconfigure the
House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee
(HHES) to be the House health and social services committee; and
the Senate committees would remain unchanged. She noted that
the change would be in effect for the next legislative session.
MS. McCARTHY informed members that Representative Guess had
first introduced this matter as HCR 11; the House Special
Committee on Education, upon review, had decided to sponsor it
as HCR 23. She said it was felt that HEDU has proven beneficial
to the legislative process by facilitating focused committee
work on education bills and issues. She offered that education
issues are complex and very important, and that the workload
related to education has become significant and would benefit
from the full attention of a permanent, standing committee.
MS. McCARTHY noted that issues such as the High School
Graduation Qualifying Exam (HSGQE), school designators, teacher
shortage, and education reform in general have benefited from
the full attention given them in the special committee [HEDU]
without the potential scheduling challenges that HHES faces.
She reported that HCR 23 is supported by the Association of
Alaska School Boards and the Alaska Council of School
Administrators. She expressed hope that members would move HCR
23 out of committee. She added that certainly no offense was
ever intended to HHES and the good work of its members.
Number 1732
CARL ROSE, Executive Director, Association of Alaska School
Boards (AASB), testified in support of [HCR 23]. He explained
that AASB has a long and positive history of working with HHES.
The past two years, AASB has been working with HEDU and has had
a successful and positive relationship as well. He said that
due to the specificity of education issues, AASB believes [HCR
23] to be an [appropriate measure]. He mentioned the workload
of HHES and indicated a standing education committee would allow
both committees sufficient time to focus on their respective
issues, which would be of great value to the state.
Number 1800
CHAIR DYSON asked Ms. McCarthy about the zero fiscal note and
the fact that each committee requires a committee aide.
MS. McCARTHY replied that the rationale for the fiscal note was
that no additional money would be necessary beyond what is
currently being spent. Already there are two committee aides,
one for HHES and one for HEDU; therefore, removing education
from HHES would not require employing additional staff.
Number 1881
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL remarked that so many issues addressed in
creating an education budget cross over into health and human
services policies. He added:
Many of the titles now are coming right out of ... the
federal [Department of Health and] Human Services, and
many of the state laws are coming right out of what
we're doing in health and social services. And we
find them combined there - everything from childcare
to many of the mandates ... that really are going to
be in the health and social service area.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL asked Ms. McCarthy whether this subject
was discussed in HEDU hearings.
MS. McCARTHY responded no, not that she recalled. She suggested
members of HHES [who also serve on HEDU] might remember.
Number 1918
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING referenced Ms. McCarthy's discussion of
the zero fiscal note and suggested there would be costs in
addition to the committee aide, such as for supplies, computer
equipment, teleconference personnel, transcribers, and other
costs. He asked whether those were considered, for example.
MS. McCARTHY replied that those costs already exist. For
instance, the recording secretary [position in House Records]
already exists, although she was uncertain about the workload of
the recording secretaries and whether another position would be
warranted if a standing education committee were established.
Number 1987
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING said:
It's not that the extra costs wouldn't be worth it;
perhaps it would be, if we could have a separate
committee that's focusing just on education issues,
and it might very well be worth incurring some extra
costs if this fiscal note wasn't correct and there
would be some overhead that was not reflected there.
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING added that he thought the [legislative]
processes should be more streamlined; this is being sought at
the agency level. He explained that the intent of a bill
several years ago that he'd sponsored was to streamline the
processes of what then were the Department of Community and
Economic Development and the Department of Community and
Regional Affairs. He said he espouses streamlining and
suggested this might be accomplished by having education
remaining in HHES.
MS. McCARTHY offered that the sponsors of HCR 23 feel that
education is a sufficiently complex and important area of work,
as is the health and social services area. Considering that all
of the necessary pieces are currently in place and both areas
are very important, she suggested it would be beneficial to the
state to [establish education as a standing committee].
MS. McCARTHY addressed efficiency, reporting that since the
beginning of the Twenty-Second Alaska State Legislature, 119
bills have been referred to HHES, 42 bills to HEDU, and 33 bills
to both committees. While some [bills] may have benefited from
a second perspective, she suggested members might not know
whether it would have been more efficient to avoid double
referrals for those 33 bills.
Number 2081
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA questioned whether the legislature had the
"human power" to accomplish [having another standing committee].
She suggested that a test run has been done and asked if it has
been problematic for people to work this into their schedules.
MS. McCARTHY replied that it hadn't appeared to be a problem.
The HEDU members have been in attendance for every meeting for
which they have been in town, she reported.
Number 2115
MR. ROSE pointed out that the U.S. Congress passed the 1,180-
page [reauthorization] of the Elementary and Secondary Education
Act (ESEA), the full impact of which remains undetermined. He
said many predict that the impact of this [Act] to public
education will be akin to the impact of the IDEA [Individuals
with Disabilities Education Act]. He suggested the need is
great to focus on educational issues with ESEA's passage and the
upcoming reauthorization of IDEA.
Number 2146
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON commented that she has had the privilege
of serving on both committees, as have other members. She said,
"I can't imagine what one chairman would have done with all
this." She explained that both chairs had [a heavy workload].
She suggested that with the upcoming issues in both committees,
something needs to be reorganized. She added, "I firmly agree
that it should be pulled out into two committees." She
explained that this doesn't reflect poorly on HHES. Simply,
many issues need to be addressed. She recommended passing the
resolution.
Number 2196
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS noted that he has served with
Representatives Wilson and Joule on both HHES and HEDU. He
offered his impression that this is a natural separation; but
acknowledged his lack of an historical point of reference. He
said he didn't know how HHES would expand [otherwise], and
mentioned perhaps adding an hour to those meetings because of so
much to address there. He added that the education committee
has addressed the Foundation [Formula], the exit exam, teacher
shortage issues, and student loan programs. He observed that
this represents an enormous amount of the budget and the
responsibility that legislators have. He expressed appreciation
for his opportunity to work with the [health and social
services] committee but suggested that education issues might be
more than [HHES] wishes to handle. He said, "It seemed to work
quite well, and I would think it would be a natural thing to
have separate standing committees."
Number 2243
CHAIR DYSON noted the practice of the legislature to have
special committees, some of which have continued for quite a
while, to handle special loads and special issues; he cited the
House Special Committee on Oil and Gas and the House Special
Committee on Fisheries as examples and indicated their
[duration] is appropriate. The need for these committees waxes
and wanes with economic and cultural conditions, he said,
cautioning against taking lightly the step of [making them
standing committees]. He said he'd be a strong voice in support
of continuing the House Special Committee on Education, should
the need continue, but was unwilling to create a standing
committee based on two years' experience, when one hadn't
existed in the prior forty-two years.
Number 2300
CHAIR DYSON also pointed out the danger in a committee, when
focused on one specific topic of special interest to members, of
becoming an "advocacy group." He said one of his mentors on the
Anchorage Assembly had said that as important as education is,
it is one of the functions that government is required to supply
and shouldn't get a disproportionate voice. He explained that
this is in spite of how important he and the people of Alaska
believe education to be.
TAPE 02-31, SIDE B
Number 2333
CHAIR DYSON observed that having too many committee referrals
can slow a bill's progress, and is sometimes used as a method to
do just that. He said the creation of [HEDU] was a deliberate
move for a special, foreseen need; he indicated that was wisely
done, and spoke in favor of the flexibility. He reiterated that
he is unwilling to put this committee into law [as a standing
committee] after just two years.
CHAIR DYSON offered his opinion that if the House has many more
committees than the Senate, a "disconnect" occurs, making it
more difficult for joint hearings to take place. He suggested
that a largely parallel structure in both bodies works well; the
greater the departure from this structure, the more difficulty
is added. Disagreeing with the premise for a zero fiscal note,
he said the special committee is not a "given," whereas [the
costs will be certain] if the committee is put into state law.
Furthermore, he said he couldn't agree with a zero fiscal note
because costs will be incurred for the committee, the aide,
transcription, supplies, and other incremental costs.
Number 2249
CHAIR DYSON turned attention to the overlap of education and
health-and-social-services issues. He observed that early
development was, rightly or wrongly, included in the department
of education. He indicated that the areas of juvenile justice
and family and youth services greatly impact, and are
intertwined with, education. As examples, he mentioned nurses
in the schools who are mandatory reporters [of abuse] and who
deliver health services in the school context, as well as the
Smart Start program.
CHAIR DYSON suggested this has worked well this year in large
part because of the excellent relationship between the two
committees' chairs. Both chairs were in support [of the special
committee] and agreed with the Speaker [of the House] that any
bill referred to one committee could be [upon the chair's
request] referred to the other committee. However, that might
not always be the case. Specifying that he would vote "no" on
this resolution, he said that if he is reelected and there is a
need for the special committee, he will be a strong voice for
continuing the [House Special Committee on Education].
Number 2145
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA suggested that an additional consideration
is the long-range fiscal plan, whether one is established or
not. If no plan is created, she offered, "We're looking at
maybe dismantling a lot of things." She indicated that should
the [legislature] take responsibility for the state and become
accountable to the public that is paying for state services,
some serious commitments need to be made to address [health-and-
social-services and education] issues. She noted that some
bills [heard by HHES] have indicated this as well. She
highlighted the importance of addressing why Alaska is rated so
low in national studies regarding health. She offered that this
should not be this way; to her, this indicates failure to the
public.
REPRESENTATIVE CISSNA observed that another issue, one just
dealt with by HHES, is medical services and that the state has
not measured up to what it was doing in [1984]. She said the
three groups facing the most jeopardy right now are the small-
business people, the nonprofits, and the self-employed. Those
require time commitments in the state. She said she would vote
"yes" for the resolution, but conveyed respect for the "very
thought-provoking and good comments of the chair."
Number 2053
REPRESENTATIVE STEVENS asked that the issue of cost be addressed
again. The costs of the committee will continue whether it is a
special committee or a standing committee, he offered. He
pointed out that the chair had indicated his support for a
continuing special committee. He said the problems are not
going away; neither are the education needs. Therefore, the
legislature's focus on these matters would not go away. He said
a cost will be incurred for either a standing or special
committee. He also said he believes the legislature will
continue to need an education committee, which is why he would
like to see it become permanent, thereby relieving HHES of some
responsibilities so its members can be more effective.
Number 1997
REPRESENTATIVE JOULE moved to report HCR 23 out of committee
with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal
notes.
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL objected.
A roll call vote was taken. Representatives Cissna, Joule,
Wilson, and Stevens voted to move HCR 23 from committee.
Representatives Dyson, Kohring, and Coghill voted against it.
Therefore, HCR 23 was reported from the House Health, Education
and Social Services Standing Committee by a vote of 4-3.
HB 464-SCHOOL DISTRICT CORRESPONDENCE STUDY
[Contains discussion relating to SB 346, the companion bill,
changes for which were incorporated into Version P of HB 464 on
3/26/02]
Number 1900
CHAIR DYSON announced the final order of business, HOUSE BILL
NO. 464, "An Act relating to statewide school district
correspondence study programs." [Before the committee was
Version P, 22-LS1494\P, Ford, 3/18/02, adopted as a work draft
on 3/26/02.]
CHAIR DYSON expressed his belief that the impetus for this bill
was a concern about the regulations [proposed by] the Department
of Education and Early Development (EED). Those regulations
have been modified, but there isn't complete satisfaction. He
offered his personal opinion that some staff people within EED
and in the educational establishment are uneasy about
alternatives in education. The initial regulations were
contrary to the interests of parent-directed education, he said.
CHAIR DYSON also offered his belief that the bill's going
forward continues protection for parent-led education and
minimizes [EED's] capacity to negatively interfere in
alternative education. He noted that the committee had heard
testimony and done everything but vote on the bill. He reported
that the sponsor [Representative James] had asked for it to move
forward, and that it would be heard by the House Special
Committee on Education.
Number 1772
REPRESENTATIVE KOHRING moved to report CSHB 464 [version 22-
LS1494\P, Ford, 3/18/02] out of committee with individual
recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being
no objection, CSHB 464(HES) was moved out of the House Health,
Education and Social Services Standing Committee.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business before the committee, the House
Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting
was adjourned at 4:41 p.m. [For minutes on the overview
presentation from the Alaska Suicide Prevention Council heard
jointly with the Senate Health, Education and Social Services
Standing Committee, see the 3:03 p.m. minutes for this date.]
| Document Name | Date/Time | Subjects |
|---|