Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/02/1994 03:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 2, 1994
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
Rep. B. Davis
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Rep. Sean Parnell
Rep. Mark Hanley
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 340: "An Act prohibiting the furlough of sex
offenders."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
HB 409: "An Act relating to the maximum amount of
assistance that may be granted under the adult
public assistance program and the program of aid
to families with dependent children; proposing a
special demonstration project within the program
of aid to families with dependent children and
directing the Department of Health and Social
Services to seek waivers from the federal
government to implement the project; and providing
for an effective date."
PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE
*HB 337: "An Act relating to the possession of controlled
substances within 500 feet of recreation and youth
centers."
NOT HEARD - HELD OVER FOR NEXT CALENDAR MEETING
*HJR 52: Urging the Congress to amend the Social Security
Act so that the higher cost of living in Alaska is
reflected when the per capita income of the state
is used as a factor in determining the federal
share of Medicaid costs.
NOT HEARD - HELD OVER FOR NEXT CALENDAR MEETING
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
DIANE SCHENKER, Special Assistant to
Commissioner Prewitt
2200 E. 42nd Ave.
Anchorage, Alaska 99508-5202
Phone: (907) 561-4426
Position Statement: Testified on HB 340
KRISTENE EWING
203 W. 3rd Ave, #B
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 586-2231
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
GERALD BAILEY
Director of Gastineau Manor
Gastineau Human Services
5597 Aisek St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 780-4338
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to HB 340
CINDY SMITH, Executive Director
Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault
130 Seward St., #501
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 586-3650
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
SANDRA STONE, Executive Director
Advocates for Victims of Violence
P.O. Box 524
Valdez, Alaska 99686
Phone: (907) 835-2980
Position Statement: Testified in support HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
GINELE HOLBROOK, Direct Services Coordinator
Advocates for Victims of Violence
P.O. Box 524
Valdez, Alaska 99686
Phone: (907) 835-2980
Position Statement: Testified in support HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
VICKIE WILLIAMS, Youth Service Coordinator
Advocates for Victims of Violence
P.O. Box 524
Valdez, Alaska 99686
Phone: (907) 835-2980
Position Statement: Testified in support HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
WENDY BRIGGETTE, Program Assistant
Advocates for Victims of Violence
P.O. Box 524
Valdez, Alaska 99686
Phone: (907) 835-2980
Position Statement: Testified in support HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
CAREN ROBINSON
P.O. Box 33702
Juneau, Alaska 99803
Phone: (907) 586-1107
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
CAROL WELCH, Staff Person
Advocates for Victims of Violence
P.O. Box 524
Valdez, Alaska 99686
Phone: (907) 835-2980
Position Statement: Testified in support HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director
Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 111200
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1200
Phone: (907) 465-4356
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
PAUL SMITH, Director
Tundra Center
P.O. Box 1114
Bethel, Alaska 99559
Phone: (907) 543-3415
Position Statement: Testified on HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
LAUREE HUGONIN, Director
Tundra Women's Coalition
P.O Box 1537
Bethel, Alaska 99559
Phone: (907) 543-3455
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
SHERRIE GOLL, Lobbyist
Alaska Women's Lobby
P.O. Box 22156
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Phone: (907) 463-6744
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
BILL ALLEN, Chairman
Advisory Board
North Star Center
P.O. Box 73765
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
Phone: (907) 451-8448
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
TANYA MERDES
1331 Great View Lane
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Phone: (907) 457-1019
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
MARJORIE HOWARD
153 Dome Rd.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Phone: (907) 479-2603
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
ROBERT HOWARD
153 Dome Rd.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Phone: (907) 479-2603
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
HOLLIS HAMEL
P.O. Box 1184
Bethel, Alaska 99559
Phone: (907) 543-3444
Position Statement: Testified in support of HB 340
(spoke via teleconference)
JAN HANSEN, Director
Division of Public Assistance
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0640
(907) 465-2680
Position statement: Answered questions on HB 409
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 340
SHORT TITLE: NO FURLOUGHS FOR CERTAIN SEX OFFENDERS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PARNELL,Phillips,Toohey,
Sanders,Olberg
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/03/94 2016 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2016 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2016 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
01/12/94 2043 (H) COSPONSOR(S): TOOHEY, SANDERS
01/13/94 2055 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG
03/02/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 409
SHORT TITLE: AFDC DEMO PROJECT AND DECREASE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) HANLEY,Therriault
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/28/94 2176 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/28/94 2177 (H) HES, FINANCE
02/11/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/11/94 (H) MINUTE(HES)
02/28/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/28/94 (H) MINUTE(HES)
BILL: HB 337
SHORT TITLE: DRUG FREE RECREATION AND YOUTH CENTERS
SPONSOR(S):REPRESENTATIVE(S)NORDLUND,Porter,Finkelstein,
Martin,Brown,Ulmer,Brice,Hudson,Menard,Sitton,Navarre,
Phillips,B.Davis,Green,Nicholia
01/03/94 2015 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/10/94 2015 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/10/94 2015 (H) HES, JUDICIARY
01/13/94 2055 (H) COSPONSOR(S): B. DAVIS
01/14/94 2084 (H) COSPONSOR(S): GREEN
01/18/94 2101 (H) COSPONSOR(S): NICHOLIA
03/02/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HJR 52
SHORT TITLE: DETERMINING FEDERAL SHARE OF MEDICAID
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) NORDLUND,Brice,Foster,Larson,
Finkelstein,Toohey,Hanley,Nicholia,B.Davis,Davidson
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/21/94 2123 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/21/94 2123 (H) HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL
SERVICES
01/26/94 2159 (H) COSPONSOR(S): HANLEY
02/02/94 2230 (H) COSPONSOR(S): NICHOLIA,
B. DAVIS
02/03/94 2247 (H) COSPONSOR(S): DAVIDSON
03/02/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-33, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:04 p.m., noted
members present and announced the calendar. He brought HB
340 to the table.
HB 340 - NO FURLOUGHS FOR CERTAIN SEX OFFENDERS
(Note: Due to technical difficulties, the first three
minutes of the meeting are inaudible.)
CHAIR BUNDE stated for the record that Rep. Vezey, Rep.
Olberg, and Rep. G. Davis arrived at 3:06 p.m.
Number 120
REP. SEAN PARNELL, Prime Sponsor of HB 340, stated that the
Department of Corrections (DOC) had recently revised their
matrix scoring system which determines inmate eligibility
for prerelease furloughs to halfway houses. He said, as a
result of that revision, there have been and will continue
to be a higher number of untreated sex offenders released
into communities. He said the shift has resulted in
misdemeanants remaining in prison facilities while sex
offenders are being furloughed to halfway houses. He stated
that the matrix that is being currently used poses many
risks to communities. He explained when the new scoring
matrix was presented to the DOC subcommittee, of which he is
a member, all members expressed their extreme displeasure of
certain provisions of the matrix. He said the DOC then
worked on another matrix that was released at the end of
December 1993. He maintained that the December matrix was
constructed without the sex offender treatment personnel's
input and without DOC subcommittee input. He asserted that
HB 340 is his response to an irresponsible policy. He
explained that the legislation prohibits the furlough of sex
offenders, except for limited medical reasons, when the
furlough would not put the public at risk or if the prisoner
is in the direct custody of a correctional officer. He
indicated that a copy of the matrix was in the committee
bill packets.
REP. PARNELL maintained that currently untreated sex
offenders are eligible for furlough. He suggested that if
the DOC has not had someone in treatment, they do not know
the risk the person represents to communities. He felt that
to be a serious flaw in the matrix. He also maintained that
the matrix makes several assumptions that are not clinically
supported. He said the matrix assumes that incest is not
predatory by attempting to differentiate between intrafamily
sexual assault and sexual assault. Rep. Parnell felt the
DOC appears to provide more leniency to those who abuse
their own children versus those who assault strangers. He
felt there was no basis for a distinction between the two
circumstances. He further stated that under the matrix,
touching and fondling is assumed to be low risk behavior.
He explained that often such behavior is a precursor to more
abusive behavior.
REP. PARNELL indicated that the matrix makes provisions for
those who commit isolated acts of pedophilia, and offered
that the term "isolated acts of pedophilia" is an "oxymoron"
as he felt it was a contradiction in terms; the acts are
ongoing and not isolated. He further indicated that the DOC
did not perform a test sample of prisoners. He suggested
that the implementation of the matrix has not been well
thought out.
REP. PARNELL further stated that he is most disturbed by the
policy call being made by the DOC with regards to
misdemeanants as they relate to sex offenders. Rep. Parnell
referred to the second page of the fiscal note and indicated
that item number nine states that if sex offenders are
precluded from furloughs, other offenders currently housed
in state correctional beds, such as misdemeanants, would be
diverted to the Community Residential Center (CRC) beds
intended for furloughees. He stated that it appears to be
DOC policy, due to fiscal restraints, to house misdemeanants
in hard beds and send sex offenders, up to 90 per year, to
soft beds in CRCs. He felt it was the wrong message to send
to prisoners and to the public.
Number 352
REP. TOOHEY asked if there was anyone from the DOC in the
audience.
REP. PARNELL said yes. He then said that the legislative
intent that passed last year states that "the program should
not be available for an individual inmate if the potential
for reformation of the inmate is considered to be minimal
and the immediate threat to public safety from that inmate
is great." He said he did not want that type of individual
in CRC beds. He explained that under the current matrix,
untreated sex offenders can be released without knowing the
risk to society. He said that would be violating the
legislative intent.
Number 387
REP. BRICE asked when the legislative intent was passed.
REP. PARNELL replied last year.
Number 393
REP. BRICE asked through what vehicle was the intent passed.
REP. PARNELL responded that it went through the operating
budget.
REP. BRICE said it was probably the DOC budget.
Number 398
REP. PARNELL summed up his testimony by stating that
citizens and victims of sex offenders have the right to
demand that sex offenders that have been sentenced to
correctional facilities will remain in the custody of that
facility and will not be furloughed intermittently or early.
He maintained that there is no escape for victims and family
members, particularly in rural villages.
Number 424
CHAIR BUNDE stated for the record that Rep. Nicholia arrived
at 3:07 p.m. He then noted that the meeting was being
teleconferenced to Valdez, Anchorage, Bethel, and Fairbanks.
REP. TOOHEY asked how many convicted sex offenders are
repeat offenders.
REP. PARNELL said he did not know the statistics, but did
offer from the Bureau of Justice that there is a high risk
of escape from CRCs and recidivism from CRC furloughees.
REP. TOOHEY stated that she "totally supports" the
legislation.
Number 466
CHAIR BUNDE maintained that he felt pedophile are never
cured.
REP. TOOHEY agreed.
REP. BRICE asked if someone from the DOC could address the
aforementioned issues.
CHAIR BUNDE said testimony from the DOC would be
forthcoming.
Number 486
REP. VEZEY asked if Rep. Parnell disagreed with the fiscal
note.
REP. PARNELL said yes. He said if misdemeanants are pulled
out of "hard beds" and put into "soft beds" there would be a
zero fiscal note. He also suggested that another category
of offender could be found to furlough rather than sex
offenders.
REP. VEZEY questioned if some sex offenses are misdemeanors.
REP. PARNELL said he did not know the answer.
REP. VEZEY said he felt the question is not where to keep
the sex offender, it is what kind of threat to society does
the state want to reserve hard beds for.
REP. PARNELL stated that the matrix system prevents society
from knowing what kind of risks the offenders will present.
REP. VEZEY said, as he understood the bill, the DOC would
have to furlough felons before sex offenders would be
furloughed.
REP. PARNELL asked if Rep. Vezey was referring to the
matrix.
REP. VEZEY said he was referring to HB 340.
REP. PARNELL submitted that the bill "is a drastic approach"
that is there to meet a drastic threat to society. He said
Rep. Vezey was correct in that felons could be released
before sex offenders. He stated that he "was asking for
some sanity from the department."
REP. VEZEY explained that he does recognize that there are
different categories of offenses to society. He said he
rated murder at the top of the list of threats to society.
REP. PARNELL said that he felt murderers would not be
released under the current matrix.
Number 562
CHAIR BUNDE asked Diane Schenker from the DOC to testify.
REP. PARNELL asked for Rep. Vezey's questions to be deferred
to Ms. Schenker.
Number 578
DIANE SCHENKER, Special Assistant to Commissioner Prewitt,
Department of Corrections, answered questions in Juneau on
HB 340.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Ms. Schenker if felons would be furloughed
so that sex offenders could be maintained. He then asked if
most sex offenses are felonies.
MS. SCHENKER stated that most sex offenses are felonies.
She said under current policy, all categories of felons are
considered for furlough. She said the premise is that a
murderer serving 99 years never attains furlough. She said
the minimum felony is three years with at least one-third
served time. She indicated there is no exclusion for
furlough review for any offense.
Number 620
CHAIR BUNDE referred to the bill that allows terminally ill
inmates to be furloughed no matter what their offense was.
REP. OLBERG asked if there is any category of offense that
cannot be furloughed, theoretically.
MS. SCHENKER said there is nothing in statute that precludes
anyone from being furloughed simply because of their
offense. She further stated that "the factors that preclude
someone from being furloughed, statutorily, are time left to
serve."
REP. OLBERG asked if the legislation is identifying a class
of offender that shouldn't be "readily" furloughed.
MS. SCHENKER said the legislation is more black and white;
the sex offender would not be considered for review or
furloughed. She said the furlough policy occurred as a
result of the DOC being asked repeatedly to be less
conservative in the use of furlough policy, citing a long
history of successful furloughs with low rates of escape and
reoffense. She said individual applications have often been
reviewed and denied and those sex offenders who
satisfactorily participated in sex offender treatment
programs were more often granted furlough. She said those
numbers were small because many offenders do not participate
in treatment programs. She explained that after the DOC
received the legislative intent language, the DOC redrafted
the policy and sent the new draft to the Finance
subcommittees. She said the policy opened up automatic
review for every felon who reaches the window of
eligibility. Prior to the policy, a felon had to request
consideration for furlough. She said the committee
responded with common concern that untreated sex offenders
not be furloughed.
MS. SCHENKER said the DOC then created the matrix. She
maintained that the first matrix that was developed weighted
the sex offense so heavily in scoring, that the only way a
sex offender could qualify for furlough would be if the
individual received additional "credit points" for
completing treatment. She felt the policy and scoring would
answer the concerns of the subcommittee members and other
interested groups.
MS. SCHENKER said that sampling was done on the matrix that
indicated that a total of 11 sex offenders were furloughed
for 30-60 days. The DOC reviewed the policy after several
months and found that more sex offenders than not were being
denied furlough. She stated that it was the DOC's consensus
that they were not meeting the legislative intent language
and that clearly the DOC was excluding a class of offenders
because of their offense. The legislative intent language
clearly requires the DOC to make individual determinations
not determined by the offense. She stated that the matrix
was not meeting the intent language, therefore the DOC
redrafted the matrix, which indicates a higher rate of
furlough for all categories of offenders, including sex
offenders.
Number 793
CHAIR BUNDE explained to Rep. Olberg that HB 334 (three
strikes you're out) would address most furlough issues.
REP. TOOHEY stated that there was also a concealed weapons
bill that was making its way rapidly through committees.
She then asked Ms. Schenker how many repeat offenders are in
the system and how many of those have been treated.
MS. SCHENKER answered that a recidivism study for the state
of Alaska is in the process and the results are not
conclusive as of yet. She indicated that the sex offender
coordinator that she contacted for the statistics said there
were studies from nine other states. She said eight out of
the nine studies indicate that completion of sex offender
treatment does lower the risk of recidivism. She asserted
that the DOC has never seen data that suggests that sex
offenders recidivate at higher rates than other categories
of offenses.
Number 841
CHAIR BUNDE suggested that Ms. Schenker prepare an answer
for Rep. Parnell regarding the second page of the fiscal
note, item 9. He then asked for testimony in Juneau.
Number 845
KRISTENE EWING, Concerned Citizen, testified in support of
HB 340. She stated that she was opposed to current policy
that allows furloughs to sex offenders, citing the threat
posed society. She felt there should be legislation that
mandates sex offenders to fulfill their terms of sentence
with no option of early release. She explained that there
are other felon and misdemeanor populations that could
benefit from the furlough program. She felt that these
categories of offenders do not represent the extreme threat
to society as do sex offenders. She strongly urged the
committee to support HB 340.
Number 929
CHAIR BUNDE asked for questions. He then asked for further
testimony.
Number 944
GERALD BAILEY, Director, Glacier Manor, Gastineau Human
Services (GHS), testified in opposition to HB 340. He
indicated that Glacier Manor is a halfway house in Juneau.
He stated that the legislation is an extreme measure
designed to deal with a problem that is not as extreme as
the solution. He said it was not his desire to have sex
offenders in his halfway house that he cannot supervise and
provide community safety for. He felt it was not in the
state's best interest to prohibit all sex offenders from
furlough eligibility, citing that there are sex offenders
that are amenable to treatment and who can earn the right to
early release to a halfway house. He maintained that sex
offenders are no more difficult to deal with than any other
class of offender. He submitted that furlough release into
a halfway house is composed of strict standards by which
Glacier Manor monitors their residents as to their
whereabouts. The offenders are very much aware that they
are still under the supervision of the DOC. He further
stated that a violation of furlough results in the
individual's return to "one of the institutions."
MR. BAILEY said halfway houses are an alternative to hard
beds, explaining that it provides community safety while
providing rehabilitation and accountability for offenders.
However, he felt that not every sex offender should be
furloughed to a halfway house. He maintained that there are
sex offenders that are appropriate for halfway house
placement that should be given the opportunity for review
much like anyone else.
Number 999
REP. KOTT asked Mr. Bailey to comment on the current
procedures used to monitor sex offenders in halfway houses.
MR. BAILEY specified visual surveillance, telephone
surveillance, the knowledge of where the offender is at all
times, and observation of the offender within the community
(with or without the offender's knowledge) as currently used
monitoring techniques. He indicated that contact by phone
to their employers or supervisors is necessary if they are
working or doing community service. They are not allowed
into the community unless for specific purposes that are
approved ahead of time. He also mentioned that the
furloughees can earn privileges which allow them more pass
time in the community that is also closely monitored.
Number 022
REP. KOTT asked if those who do the surveillance actually
"shadow" the sex offender in the community.
MR. BAILEY answered that they do not follow them one on one.
He explained that the halfway house does random visual
surveillances frequently enough that they are assured that
the offender is doing what they're supposed to be doing.
REP. KOTT asked how frequently random visual surveillances
are done.
MR. BAILEY said it could vary, citing that visual
surveillance could be done from once a week to once a month,
and that telephone surveillance could be done two or three
times a day. He explained that how often an offender is
surveillanced depends on the nature of the offender's crime.
Number 040
CHAIR BUNDE asked if Gastineau Manor is a state agency or a
private entity.
MR. BAILEY stated that Gastineau Human Services, which
operates Glacier Manor, is a private nonprofit organization
that contracts with the DOC.
Number 047
REP. VEZEY asked if it was a reasonable assumption that
pedophile do not pose a threat to other adults.
MR. BAILEY said generally they are not a threat to other
adults, but certainly pose a threat to children.
REP. VEZEY supposed that it may be easier to isolate a
pedophile from children under a certain age as opposed to
all women in society.
MR. BAILEY agreed.
Number 069
REP. G. DAVIS asked Mr. Bailey if he knew the recidivism
rate for sexual offenders as opposed to other categories of
offenses.
MR. BAILEY indicated that an article he had showed
recidivism rates varying from 10% for incest offenders to
40% for exhibitionists and voyeurs. He said there is
clearly a difference between the various types of sex
offenders. He said his personal opinion is that they are no
more likely to offend than other categories of offenders.
Number 092
CHAIR BUNDE asked for the title of the report Mr. Bailey was
reading from.
MR. BAILEY said it was a journal article titled, "Research
on Sex Offenders, What Do We Know?" He said he was unsure
of the article's source.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Bailey to inform Rep. Toohey of the
source of the article when convenient.
REP. KOTT asked Mr. Bailey how many of the sex offenders
that have been involved with his facility have violated
their parole.
MR. BAILEY said, "In this fiscal year, we have had nine
referrals placed into the CRC, and none of them have
violated their paroles."
REP. KOTT asked if there are many violations of parole.
MR. BAILEY answered no. He said in his experience of one
year with GHS, he has known of one violation.
Number 121
REP. BRICE asked if he had seen the same faces come back
through?
MR. BAILEY said in regards to sex offenders, he has not seen
any come back through.
Number 133
CHAIR BUNDE asked what percentage of Mr. Bailey's clients
are sex offenders.
MR. BAILEY responded by saying that 13% of the referrals
they have received this year are sex offenders.
REP. PARNELL asked how many additional sex offenders would
Mr. Bailey receive as referrals under the new proposal.
MR. BAILEY said he was unsure.
TAPE 94-33, SIDE B
Number 000
CHAIR BUNDE stated that testimony would be heard in Juneau
and then via teleconference from Valdez.
Number 005
CINDY SMITH, Executive Director, Alaska Network on Domestic
Violence and Sexual Assault, testified in Juneau in support
of HB 340. She stated that the network is a coalition of
the 22 domestic violence and sexual assault programs around
the state. She said the program served 9000 victims last
year. She also stated that the network also includes the
DOC contract as sex offender treatment provider. She
commented that she was prepared to cite and leave with the
committee studies that provide relative statistics regarding
sex offenders. She stated that between 1989 and 1991 the
number of reported rapes against women and the number of
child sexual assault doubled. She said that levels of
sexual assault are presently higher than in any rates of the
past decade.
MS. SMITH explained that due to financial restrictions and
overcrowding, the DOC began authorizing prerelease furloughs
for sex offenders. When the network learned of the new
policy of early release, especially of untreated offenders,
she wrote a letter of objection to the DOC. She further
stated that studies show nationally the recidivism rate to
be 80%-90% for untreated sex offenders.
MS. SMITH addressed the issue of treatment of sex offenders
by citing a document from the DOC which contains a
consultant study among eight national studies that directly
compared treated and untreated groups of sex offenders. She
said five out of the eight studies indicated the reoffense
rate to be higher among treated offenders, two reports
showed there to be no difference in the recidivism rate, and
findings were positive in one study. She indicated the
document originated from the DOC and was provided to her by
Janet Marquess.
Number 091
CHAIR BUNDE asked if Ms. Smith would supply the committee
secretary with her prepared written testimony.
MS. SMITH indicated that she was reading from notes. She
continued on to say that the bottom line is that the
furloughs are being granted to a group of offenders that
have a much higher propensity to reoffend than other
categories of offenders that are placed into community beds.
She also stated that the network is not aware of any special
training for community halfway houses that is specific to
managing sex offenders. She also suggested that not all
halfway houses are as admirably monitored as Glacier Manor.
MS. SMITH asserted that the references in the matrix are
misleading. She maintained that studies have shown a
significant "cross-over", citing 44% of in-family assaults
indicate that the perpetrator had also committed sexual
assaults outside of the family. Ms. Smith further explained
that there is also a cross-over from people who primarily
assault children, citing that they sometimes assault adults.
She pointed out that those who are known to be peeping Toms
are also likely to be sexual offenders. She felt the idea
of providing sex offenders with furlough as an incentive for
sex offenders to receive treatment is not a good idea,
explaining that sex offenders often con people.
MS. SMITH said the question is which beds are being used for
sex offenders. She maintained that the DOC's current
decision seems to be that it's more important to free up
hard beds for misdemeanants; i.e., DWIs and assault; by
putting a group with an 80% recidivism rate out into the
community in soft beds where they are for the most part
surveillanced but not monitored 24 hours a day. She urged
the committee to support HB 340.
Number 202
CHAIR BUNDE asked for questions from the committee.
REP. G. DAVIS asked if the recidivism rate was 80% plus.
MS. SMITH said it is 80%-90% and the statistics were from
data that tracked treated and untreated sex offenders. She
said the reports indicated that recidivism rates ranged
between 15%-40% for offenders who are "treatment complete."
She also said that a number of states indicated higher rates
of recidivism for treated offenders opposed to untreated
offenders.
Number 244
REP. KOTT asked what the recidivism rate is for treated
offenders.
MS. SMITH said the statistics vary depending on what state
is involved and what kind of treatment they provide. She
said estimates run between 20% and 40%. She asserted that
most studies are not finding their programs effective,
citing that some programs have shut down. She said there is
no recidivism data in Alaska.
Number 276
CHAIR BUNDE asked for teleconference testimony and urged
those testifying to limit their testimony.
Number 280
SANDRA STONE, Executive Director, Advocates for Victims of
Violence, testified via teleconference in support of HB 340.
She stated that early release of sex offenders revictimizes
the victim and minimizes the impact of the offense on the
victim's life. She explained that she has sat in on sex
offender treatment groups where offenders were in prison for
their second and third time. She said many were incest
perpetrators. She urged the committee to let victims know
that they believe in the seriousness of the crime committed
against them by supporting HB 340.
Number 338
GINELE HOLBROOK, Direct Services Coordinator, Advocates for
Victims of Violence, testified via teleconference in support
of HB 340. She stated that she had the opportunity in the
past to work with sex offenders. She said her testimony is
based on personal rather than professional experience. She
said her first experience was with an offender who talked
positively of how he was going to turn his life around. She
indicated that a week later, upon the offender's release, he
had raped his ex-girlfriend because she had broken off their
relationship.
MS. HOLBROOK related another experience that she had with a
pedophile that had been kicked out of the sex offenders
treatment program for inappropriate behavior. She said she
worked with him as a liaison between his family and him.
Consequently, she told the man she could no longer work with
him. The offender then threatened her by telling her that
when he was released "he would find me, and we would finish
business." Ms. Holbrook said she felt that she could
prepare herself for the offender's imminent release, but if
the legislation is not passed, she would always be looking
over her shoulder.
Number 408
VICKIE WILLIAMS, Youth Services Coordinator, Advocates for
Victims of Violence, testified via teleconference in support
of HB 340. She reiterated that child victims will be
revictimized by the knowledge that their sexual offenders
will be back on the streets even earlier. She felt that to
trade off children's safety for money is extremely
unfortunate.
Number 426
WENDY BRIGGETTE, Program Assistant, Advocates for Victims of
Violence, testified via teleconference in support of HB 340.
She stated her concern that pedophile and incest
perpetrators should be considered in the same class as
violent sex offenders.
CHAIR BUNDE said her point was well taken.
CAREN ROBINSON, Concerned Citizen, testified in Juneau in
support of HB 340. She stated that she has worked in the
area of domestic violence and sexual assault for ten years
and was one of the first certified police trainers in the
state. She also stated that she lobbied for setting up the
Council on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault. She
reminded the committee that the legislation addresses early
furlough. She felt it is extremely important to use soft
beds to house nonviolent offenders, citing the high
recidivism rate for sexual offenders.
MS. ROBINSON related circumstances where she was involved in
treatment for sex offenders in Washington. She said part of
the treatment was that the offenders had to verbally address
all the offenses that they had perpetrated against victims.
She said when the offenders became honest about their pasts,
not one in the group had only one offense, indicating cross-
over behavior.
MS. ROBINSON asserted that the offense of child molestation
within the home is just as serious as a child being molested
by a stranger next door. She indicated that most children
of incest have endured years of abuse. She stated that she
left the area of domestic violence in sexual assault because
she could "not take, any longer, working with people who I
later discovered, in some form, were molesting children."
MS. ROBINSON named Max DuBois as a program director who
molested five young boys, was arrested, and put in jail.
She said not long after, she was in Anchorage at a movie
theater and found herself and her son sitting next to him
with two Native boys with him. She said he has fled to
Florida and is being sought for approximately five other
cases.
MS. ROBINSON indicated that she had taught police officers
and in schools with Ken McQuaid, who molested five boys.
She reminded the committee that he was a school board member
and would have definitely been a candidate for any early
release furlough.
MS. ROBINSON mentioned Ron Lear who was with the attorneys
general who worked with her in rewriting the sexual assault
laws. She said he molested his four children, was arrested
and jailed, and is now in prison again for remolesting.
Lastly, MS. ROBINSON referred to the captain of police who
was charged with sexual assault and roams free in Washington
because of the statute of limitations. She said there was
evidence of at least five or six victims in his own
immediate family. She strongly encouraged passage of HB
340.
Number 616
REP. BRICE asked for a copy of the report Ms. Robinson was
reading from.
Number 620
CHAIR BUNDE asked for further testimony from Valdez.
Number 622
CAROL WELCH, Staff Person, Advocate for Victims of Violence,
testified via teleconference in support of HB 340. She
stated that the safety of children should be the priority
for all. She felt to release an untreated sex offender
early was to suggest that their offense was "no big deal."
It allows the offender to continue in their denial of
responsibility. She urged the passage of HB 340.
Number 648
JAYNE ANDREEN, Executive Director, Council on Domestic
Violence and Sexual Assault, Department of Public Safety,
testified in Juneau in support of HB 340. She stated that
she was testifying on behalf of the council. She said that
Alaska has one of the highest rates of forcible rape in the
United States. (see Attachment 1) She said Alaska now
exceeds the national average by more than two times. It is
important to note that the numbers reflect the incidences of
rape that were reported. She said it is estimated that only
7% of rapes are reported, and with those statistics it is
estimated that over 8000 rapes occurred in Alaska in 1992.
MS. ANDREEN reiterated the high recidivism rate for sex
offenders, and felt that sex offenders, whether they are
treated or untreated, are being placed in community beds
which allows offenders greater access to potential victims.
She said this practice decreases public safety. She
asserted that community beds could be more effectively used
by less dangerous populations. She felt it would provide an
appropriate balance between cost effective utilization of
DOC resources while ensuring public safety.
Number 686
CHAIR BUNDE asked for testimony from Bethel.
Number 690
PAUL SMITH, Director, Tundra Center, testified via
teleconference on HB 340. He read a statement from Susan
Rapoza, Former Board Member of the Tundra Center. In the
statement she indicated that all offenders, including sex
offenders, should be given the opportunity to reside in a
residential program. She felt by allowing the offenders to
reside in community beds they would become self-sufficient
and secure enough to reenter the community. She indicated
that to the best of her knowledge there has been no major
problems presented by sex offenders in the Tundra Center.
MR. SMITH asserted that the Tundra Center has had a 100%
completion rate for treatment of sex offenders since January
of 1992. He said 12 sex offenders have been admitted to the
program since 1992. He said there is no sex offender
classes or programs conducted through mental health programs
in Bethel.
Number 756
LAUREE HUGONIN, Director, Tundra Women's Coalition,
testified via teleconference in support of HB 340. She
stated that during 1993, state troopers investigated 236
child sexual and physical abuse cases in the region
surrounding Bethel.
(Due to technical difficulties with teleconference, Chair
Bunde took a brief at-ease from 4:12 p.m. to 4:15 p.m.)
MS. HUGONIN continued with her testimony. She said that 53
cases of adult sexual assault were reported in that same
year. She said that during 1993, ten Bethel residents and
45 Yukon Delta residents were incarcerated for sexual
offenses. She also stated that since 1992, twelve sex
offenders have resided at the community halfway house in
Bethel. She maintained that the region does not need sex
offenders to be released any earlier than possible and
questioned if treatment for sex offenders is effective at
all. She commented on the community halfway house in
Bethel. She indicated that those offenders in residence
have opportunity to be away from supervision at their work
place and during their lunchtime. She explained that the
community is small and that the sex offenders pose a risk to
the public.
TAPE 94-34, SIDE A
Number 000
MS. HUGONIN further stated that she supported early release
for misdemeanants to halfway houses. She suggested that
perhaps those convicted for crimes against property should
be allowed soft beds as opposed to sex offenders. She
asserted that a revision be made to the DOC scoring matrix.
She agreed that intrafamily sexual assault is just as
dangerous and damaging as other higher rated assaults within
the matrix. She said that sex offenders must be required to
face the full consequences of their actions.
Number 090
SHERRIE GOLL, Lobbyist, Alaska Women's Lobby, testified in
Juneau in support of HB 340. She stated that pedophile are
very likely to be pillars of the community and are very
adept at conning adults and children. She said these types
of offenders would appear to be good candidates for early
release. She said the Alaska Women's Lobby supports halfway
houses in the community for reintegration into the
community, but they feel it is inappropriate for sex
offenders and violent criminals of any kind. She suggested
that perhaps sex offenders should be required to do their
full time in prison and then be placed into community beds
in halfway houses to be integrated back into the society.
Number 177
BILL ALLEN, Chairman, Advisory Board, North Star Center,
testified via teleconference in opposition to HB 340. He
stated that the matrix prohibits untreated sex offenders
convicted of violent and sexual assault from being
furloughed. He felt that to prohibit furlough to sex
offenders would discourage them from getting professional
help, as the incentive to be cured would be removed. He
stated that alcohol abuse is a large factor associated with
acts of sexual abuse. He further stated that North Star
Center has admitted 50 sex offenders since January of 1990,
and none of the offenders have been arrested as a result of
a new offense while in their program. He urged that the
legislation be redrafted accordingly.
Number 274
TANYA MERDES testified via teleconference in support of HB
340. She stated that she is sixteen years old and a victim
of rape. She said, "If my perpetrator is let out of jail
any earlier, I don't know what I would do. My freedom has
already been stripped away from me, and I think... he
should serve his full sentence."
CHAIR BUNDE expressed his appreciation to Tanya Merdes for
coming forward. He asked to hear testimony from Marjorie
Howard.
Number 296
MARJORIE HOWARD, Tanya Merdes' grandmother, testified via
teleconference in support of HB 340. She stated that sex
offenders should not be allowed in to society before they
have served as much time as the state can mandate.
Number 320
CHAIR BUNDE, due to the heart-felt nature of Ms. Howard's
testimony, asked her if she would like to take a moment to
regain her composure.
Number 350
MS. HOWARD continued with her testimony. She said that her
family must endure the presence of her granddaughter's
perpetrator for the rest of their lives. She stated that no
family or victim ever truly heals from such a crime. She
felt that letting sex offenders out early into the community
is improper.
Number 360
CHAIR BUNDE thanked Ms. Howard for coming forward, and said
that it is important for legislators to hear the testimony
of victims in the community.
Number 365
ROBERT HOWARD, Tanya Merdes' grandfather, testified via
teleconference in support of HB 340. He stated that in the
past two years, his family has undergone the devastation of
a sexual offense committed against his granddaughter. He
said, "the other thing is this, I have personally
experienced the psychological effect of hormone imbalance,
and what that can do to your view of the world. I want you
to understand that it can be very significant. And, it can
be overwhelming, and it can be something that you have no
defenses against. That is a preface of what I wanted to
tell you." He further stated that violation of furlough is
an unacceptable risk. He said the crime of sexual assault
is one of the most difficult to detect and to prosecute,
citing that in many cases it is an easy act for offenders to
hide. He said, "I can tell you from personal experience
that your very best friend, for your whole life, can be the
perpetrator of sex offenses, and you don't even know it.
That was hard to deal with."
MR. HOWARD felt that HB 340 was a good solution to an
extreme problem. He further stated that treatment for sex
offenders in prison is of no value. He said, "I feel that
ultimately, most acts of sex offense are probably driven by
hormones coupled with maybe a little bit of a twisted
psychological outlook. But, they're driven by hormones
which when active can overwhelm the best of intentions." He
said he doubted that treatment of sex offenders included
significant modification of hormones, but felt it would be
of value to the offender to undergo such treatment. He
asserted that of all sex crimes, pedophilia is the easiest
crime to conceal and he felt that there is no degree of
distinction between it and other acts of sexual assault.
Number 492
REP. G. DAVIS asked Mr. Howard if the perpetrator of the
crime against his granddaughter was a repeat offender.
MR. HOWARD said, "ten times at least."
REP. G. DAVIS asked if that was prior to the offense to his
granddaughter.
MR. HOWARD responded yes.
CHAIR BUNDE clarified and asked if there was a prior
conviction.
MR. HOWARD said no.
CHAIR BUNDE clarified that although it does not minimize the
perpetrator's offense, there was no prior conviction so it
was not a second offense. He then closed public testimony.
He asked the pleasure of the committee. He then was made
aware that there was one testifier left in Bethel.
Number 542
HOLLIS HAMEL, Concerned Citizen, testified via
teleconference in support of HB 340. She stated that Alaska
has sent an increasingly loud message to sexual assault
victims that they deserve advocacy and support services,
that they are, indeed, victims of serious crime, and that
there are punitive measures placed on the offenders of those
crimes. In light of the message being sent, Ms. Hamel asked
how the state could allow the early release of sex
offenders, citing that the victims' safety could be greatly
compromised. She felt that offenders would interpret the
message as "no big deal."
Number 595
CHAIR BUNDE asked the pleasure of the committee.
REP. TOOHEY said that she, as a nurse, has been the
recipient of rape victims in the emergency room and has had
several friends raped. She made a motion to pass HB 340 out
of committee with individual recommendations.
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that there was an accompanying fiscal
note. He suggested that the issue of the fiscal note be
addressed in future committees.
REP. PARNELL offered that Ms. Schenker was available for
fiscal questions.
CHAIR BUNDE asked Rep. Parnell to address the fiscal note in
the Finance Committee.
Number 633
REP. G. DAVIS asked Ms. Schenker if there are enough
offenders in other categories to fill the soft beds.
MS. SCHENKER stated that the DOC would like to make it clear
that there is not a pool of nonviolent offenders to
substitute for violent offenders. She said that it is very
rare that a nonviolent offender, with no past violent
crimes, would be put into the prison system. She said there
are misdemeanants that could be put into the beds. However,
Ms. Schenker stated, the DOC is 265 prisoners over the
maximum capacity. She said that if today the DOC "swapped
the misdemeanants for the furloughed sex offenders, it is
true that there would be no impact."
Number 704
CHAIR BUNDE indicated that the committee had heard the
motion and asked if there were any objections. Hearing
none, Chair Bunde declared that HB 340 was so moved.
CHAIR BUNDE then brought HB 409 to the table. He stated
that the bill was heard previously.
(Note: Chair Bunde handed the gavel over to Rep. Toohey to
preside over the remainder of the meeting.)
HB 409 - AFDC DEMO PROJECT AND DECREASE
Number 713
CHAIR TOOHEY indicated that there were questions that
remained unanswered from the last meeting.
REP. G. DAVIS said he was comfortable with the bill and that
all of his prior concerns had been successfully addressed.
REP. BRICE indicated that at the end of the meeting on March
28, 1994, Rep. B. Davis had asked for figures to be worked
out regarding a lower ratable reduction. He said it was his
understanding that Rep. B. Davis' concerns were going to be
addressed before the bill was to be moved out of committee.
He asked if there were any answers to Rep. B. Davis'
concerns.
CHAIR TOOHEY said, to her knowledge, they had not been
answered. She said it was her intent to pass the bill out,
as the committee was unsure as to how long it would be
before Rep. B. Davis returned to Juneau. Rep. B. Davis was
in Anchorage seeking medical treatment.
Number 760
REP. BRICE further indicated that he had submitted a list of
20 questions to a subcommittee hearing and had not received
a reply.
CHAIR TOOHEY asked if Rep. Mark Hanley had addressed the
list of questions for Rep. Brice.
REP. BRICE maintained that he submitted a list to both the
prime sponsor and to the Department of Health and Social
Services (DHSS) and still had not received a response.
REP. G. DAVIS, as chairman of the subcommittee, stated that
he did not recall seeing a specific list of questions. He
said he certainly was not denying that the list was
submitted. He referred to the ratable reductions, stating
that he had concerns also that perhaps there could be other
avenues of funding. He said after researching the issue
further, he found no other way to generate the needed
funding and indicated his acceptance to the proposal.
REP. HANLEY said that he received a copy of the list and
said, "I don't know how you want to respond, but some of the
questions were: What does it cost to implement the federal
waivers? What does it cost to administer a demonstration
project over the life of the project...cost ratios, cost
benefit study? There isn't a cost benefit study, but the
fiscal note answers about half of the questions that are on
here."
Number 800
REP. BRICE said there were about six or seven serious policy
questions that were left unanswered.
CHAIR TOOHEY said, "Excuse me, Rep. Brice, had you checked
with the sponsor before that?"
REP. BRICE said that he had been in contact with Rep.
Hanley.
REP. HANLEY indicated that he had a copy of the questions.
CHAIR TOOHEY asked Rep. Hanley if he was able to answer any
of Rep. Brice's questions.
REP. HANLEY said, "We talked to the office, but..."
CHAIR TOOHEY asked if there was anyone from the DHSS in the
audience. She then asked Rep. Hanley to respond before she
heard testimony from Jan Hansen.
REP. HANLEY said that he drafted an amendment that would
address the aforementioned concerns. He said the bill
already establishes that if the federal government does not
approve some of the waivers, it has the ability to determine
whether the project should be implemented. He further
stated that the proposal states that the DHSS shall apply
for and implement the waivers that relate to the parts of
the project that are not substantially affected by the
change in federal statutes or regulations. He maintained
that if there are changes in federal regulations, the DHSS
would have the ability to discontinue the operation of the
project.
Number 845
REP. BRICE asked, if the project were to be discontinued,
would the ratable return to the original rate?
REP. HANLEY said no.
REP. BRICE clarified that even if the demonstration is not
being done, the ratable would not go back to the original
rate.
REP. HANLEY said no.
REP. BRICE made a motion to amend the amendment to reflect
that if the DHSS does not do the demonstration project, that
the ratable would be reimplemented to the original level.
REP. BUNDE objected and offered that even with the ratable
reduction, "...Alaska is the highest welfare rate in the
nation."
Number 871
REP. NICHOLIA said, "Bettye (Rep. B. Davis) asked
specifically for the department to draw up the numbers...
possibly at a 7% ratable to make the program more cost
neutral and less of an impact on the AFDC recipients.
That's what she specifically asked for."
CHAIR TOOHEY called for the vote to amend HB 409 as amended.
The motion was made to bring the ratable back to its
original rate if the waiver is not implemented. Reps.
Nicholia and Brice voted Yea; Reps. Toohey, Bunde, Gary
Davis, Vezey, and Olberg voted Nay. Chair Toohey declared
that the motion failed. She then asked if the amendment
proposed by Rep. Hanley had been adopted. It had not been
adopted. She asked for a motion.
Number 903
REP. BUNDE made a motion to adopt the amendment for HB 409.
CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, said the amendment had
been adopted.
REP. NICHOLIA referred to her earlier question as to whether
Rep. Bettye Davis' concerns were going to be addressed. She
asked for an answer.
Number 912
REP. HANLEY said that the DHSS would be able to figure out a
ratable reduction. He said he was unable to render those
figures.
CHAIR TOOHEY asked if Rep. B. Davis' request was made during
the teleconference meeting on February 28, 1994.
REP. BRICE said yes, "asking for the .7 numbers...on the
APA."
Number 924
JAN HANSEN, Director, Division of Public Assistance,
Department of Health and Social Services, answered questions
on HB 409. She stated that the current percentage on the
fiscal analysis was 1.7%. She then estimated that at .9 the
numbers would be about half of any of the figures listed.
She said that .7 of 1.7% would be about 45% of the figures
shown on the fiscal analysis. She stated that the numbers
were ball park figures.
Number 944
REP. NICHOLIA stated that it was her feeling that if Rep. B.
Davis requested those figures, they should have been written
up instead of giving "ball park figures" for answers.
CHAIR TOOHEY said, "I would move that if Rep. Davis would
like that information, she can get it through Finance." She
then asked for further questions.
Number 962
REP. BRICE said, "Considering that there's roughly 18,600
people... that are due back child support... that are also
on AFDC in the state, I would kindly submit that we look at
possibly including some amendments to include some of the
child support enforcement legislation that we've been
talking about; namely, for those employers who intentionally
hide the fact that their employee is in arrears to child
support."
Number 979
CHAIR TOOHEY said, "Rep. Brice, you are off the subject of
this. There is a bill before us... or there was a bill..."
REP. BRICE said, "Yes, but I've got an amendment that I
would like to propose."
CHAIR TOOHEY said, "I would like to know the wish of the
committee -- if we want to take to another amendment or if
we want to continue and pass this bill on."
REP. BUNDE made a motion to pass HB 409 out of committee.
REP. BRICE said, "Out of order. Point of order. No. We
were not told that this bill was going to come up until just
this morning. There was no discussion as to whether it
would... my understanding is... me and Irene left the room
after adjournment, Monday morning, then there was a
discussion. There was no attempt to contact our offices...
so where we could be in contact with the sponsor of the
legislation to address certain questions that we have not
been allowed access to through the subcommittee or through
the past hearing."
Number 000
CHAIR TOOHEY interjected and said, "The subcommittee was
open to the public."
REP. BRICE said, "Not according to your very words, Madam
Chair. You said it did not concern the matters of
Fairbanks, and that's why I was not chosen to sit on it."
CHAIR TOOHEY said, "And Rep. Davis was, as a voting member,
not as a member of the committee."
REP. BRICE said, "And, she's been sick."
CHAIR TOOHEY said, "That's right, not as a member... excuse
me. You were here at the committee meeting, and I believe
you were too." She indicated that Rep. Nicholia was in
attendance also.
REP. BRICE said, "Not when it was announced that you'd bring
it back up on Wednesday."
CHAIR TOOHEY said, "That's right..." She then asked the
pleasure of the committee.
Number 017
REP. BUNDE made a motion to pass HB 409 out of committee.
REP. NICHOLIA said, "Before you make any moves here, I would
like to say something. I think that this bill here is a
little early, Rep. Hanley. I think that you're going to be
tying up people for five years when there's other welfare
reform coming from President Clinton. We haven't seen it.
We haven't been in touch with our Congressman to see what's
in that package. And, I just think that this is just too
early for us. You said at the beginning, when you first
introduced it, that it was just a proposal, and so here we
are having a bill in front of us... I just think that it's
not going to do us any good right now. I think it's just
too early."
Number 036
REP. BUNDE stated that he had a motion on the floor.
REP. BRICE objected.
CHAIR TOOHEY called for the vote. Reps. Bunde, Gary Davis,
Vezey, Kott, Olberg, and Toohey voted Yea and Reps. Nicholia
and Brice voted Nay. Chair Toohey declared that HB 409 was
so moved.
CHAIR TOOHEY then indicated that HB 337 and HJR 52 would be
heard at the next meeting.
Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR
TOOHEY ADJOURNED the meeting at 5:00 p.m.
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