Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/28/1994 03:00 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
February 28, 1994
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis (via teleconference)
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
OTHER LEGISLATORS PRESENT
Rep. Mark Hanley
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
HB 409: "An Act relating to the maximum amount of
assistance that may be granted under the adult
public assistance program and the program of aid
to families with dependent children: proposing a
special demonstration project within the program
of aid to families with dependent children and
directing the Department of Health and Social
Services to seek waives from the federal
government to implement the project; and providing
for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
WITNESS REGISTER
JAN HANSEN, Director
Division of Public Assistance
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110640
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0640
(907) 465-2680
Position Statement: Answered questions on CSHB 409
PUDGE KLEINKAUF
4201 Macinnes
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
Phone: (907) 561-7113
Position Statement: Testified on CSHB 409
(spoke via teleconference)
ANN SWIFT, Representative
Tanana League of Women Voters
3181 Anella Ave.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Phone: (907) 479-2524
Position Statement: Testified on CSHB 409
(spoke via teleconference)
REBECCA ROSSON
Member, Board of Directors
Alaskans with Disabilities Association
330 3rd Ave.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Phone: (907) 458-7257
Position Statement: Testified on CSHB 409
(spoke via teleconference)
ROBIN WICKHAM, Member
ACCESS Alaska
3550 Airport Rd. #3
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Phone: (907) 479-7940
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to CSHB 409
(spoke via teleconference)
LOUISE CHARLES, Job Director
Tanana Chief Conference
1609 Madison Dr.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Phone: (907) 452-8251
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to CSHB 409
(spoke via teleconference)
DAN LABROSSE, Staff Person
Deaf Community Services
1405 Kellum St.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99701
Phone: (907) 456-5913
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to CSHB 409
(spoke via teleconference)
KENNETH BLATCHFORD
P.O. Box 1816
Seward, Alaska 99664
Phone: (907) 224-4579
Position Statement: Testified in opposition to CSHB 409
(spoke via teleconference)
PATRICK CUNNINGHAM
Member, Board of Directors
Alaska Chapter of the National Association of Social Workers
University of Alaska Anchorage
3211 Providence Dr.
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
Phone: (907) 786-1725
Position Statement: Testified on CSHB 409
SHERRIE GOLL, Lobbyist
Alaska Women's Lobby; KIDPAC
P.O. Box 22156
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Phone: (907) 463-6744
Position Statement: Testified on CSHB 409
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 409
SHORT TITLE: AFDC DEMO PROJECT AND DECREASE
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) HANLEY,Therriault
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/28/94 2176 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/28/94 2177 (H) HES, FINANCE
02/11/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/11/94 (H) MINUTE(HES)
02/28/94 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-30, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR TOOHEY called the meeting to order at 3:04 p.m., noted
members present and announced the calendar. She brought HB
409 to the table.
HB 409 - AFDC DEMO PROJECT AND DECREASE
CHAIR TOOHEY asked Rep. Mark Hanley to address his bill.
Number 030
REP. G. DAVIS asked Rep. Hanley if he wanted to go through a
comparison between the committee substitute (CS) and the
original bill.
Number 058
CHAIR TOOHEY stated for the record that Rep. Kott and Rep.
Brice arrived at 3:11 p.m. She acknowledged that a quorum
was now present. She also indicated that Rep. Bettye Davis
was on teleconference in Anchorage.
Number 077
REP. BUNDE made a motion to adopt the CS for HB 409.
CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, stated that CSHB 409
was before the committee.
Number 085
REP. MARK HANLEY, Prime Sponsor of HB 409, addressed the CS
for HB 409. He stated the amendments made in the
subcommittee addressed the concerns of the Department of
Health and Social Services (DHSS). He said the changes made
were in regards to time lines being set in place and
ensuring that the those times were clear. He said if the
DHSS could not find enough job slots available in the
community service area, the department will not require the
individuals to participate in the project. He also said the
income disregard provisions will apply to everybody within
the project, not just those who apply after the effective
date. He said he could go through the specific line/page
changes if the committee was so inclined.
Number 177
CHAIR TOOHEY asked the pleasure of the committee.
REP. G. DAVIS asked for Rep. Hanley to go through those
line/page changes.
Number 191
REP. HANLEY indicated that a sentence had been inserted on
page 3, line 6, which read, "To the extent that the federal
government approves the necessary waivers, the department
shall implement the project." He said the new language
addresses the concern of the DHSS, that if only one waiver
was approved, perhaps it may not be worthwhile to implement
the project.
REP. HANLEY stated on page 3, line 10, the phrase, "when
determining the amount of assistance to which an assistance
unit in the project area is entitled," was added. He said
it indicates that the disregards apply to "both the people
that are currently on it, that will be in the test area, and
the new people that come on it, that will be in the test
group."
REP. HANLEY indicated that on page 3, line 30, the word "if"
was added to the beginning of the line. He also indicated
that at the end of the sentence in line 30, the following
sentence was added: "The department shall assess the
availability of activities that satisfy the purposes of this
subsection within each part of the project area and attempt
to develop additional activities where necessary." He
stated the provision would not require the participants to
do community service if the DHSS has not made the slots
available.
Number 270
REP. BUNDE referred to the phrase "attempt to develop
additional activities" and asked Rep. Hanley how broad the
scope was regarding the attempt.
REP. HANLEY said that would be left to the discretion of the
DHSS. He felt the DHSS would follow regulations as far as
developing a program for community service.
REP. BUNDE stated for the record, "I was wanting to have
your (Rep. Hanley) intent in the record. This could blossom
into a huge WPA project or something." Rep. Bunde further
stated that "it could be very expensive providing work for
this volunteer opportunity. And, I don't think that was
your intention or the department's intention."
Number 315
REP. HANLEY said he did not envision the DHSS putting
together a road crew to fill slots. He said he anticipated
there to be currently operating activities in nonprofit
organizations.
Number 330
JAN HANSEN, Director, Division of Public Assistance,
Department of Health and Social Services, answered questions
in Juneau on HB 409. She stated that the DHSS has not
factored into the fiscal notes anything that would indicate
that the department would start something similar to a WPA
project. She said the fiscal note includes creating
community service slots similar to the process in the JOBS
program. Also, there is a process called self-initiating
where the participant looks for employment. She said it was
intended that the volunteer community service activities
not be well defined.
REP. BUNDE said it was not his intent that they be spelled
out in statute. He clarified that the project would be
ancillary and not the start up of a new bureaucracy.
CHAIR TOOHEY stated for the record that both Rep. Vezey and
Rep. Nicholia had arrived at 3:09 p.m.
REP. HANLEY stated that page 5, lines 17-18, indicates the
dates for repealing the waivers and the ratable reductions.
REP. HANLEY said page 5, line 18, was added to provide for
the ratable reduction to be implemented January 1, 1995. He
said there would be start-up costs incurred before the
project even begins.
REP. HANLEY said page 5, lines 21-25, were rewritten to
clarify the times that the waivers take effect, if and when
they are approved by the federal government.
Number 447
CHAIR TOOHEY asked if there were any questions from the
committee. There were none. She then announced that
Seward, Fairbanks, and Anchorage were on teleconference.
She indicated that Rep. Bettye Davis was on line in
Anchorage.
Number 476
REP. B. DAVIS, via teleconference from Anchorage, said she
had no questions.
Number 480
PUDGE KLEINKAUF, Concerned Citizen, testified via
teleconference from Anchorage on CSHB 409. She stated that
she was very concerned about the ratable reduction as it
would decrease payments to Aid to Families with Dependent
Children (AFDC) recipients, which were already cut last
year. She felt there were other ways to approach the
project. She said if the University of Alaska Anchorage was
to do the demonstration project, and the Institute for
Social and Economic Research was to head the project, the
cost to the DHSS would be reduced significantly, resulting
in a lesser ratable reduction to AFDC recipients. She said
the demonstration project is broken down to 65% of the
client group in the demonstration project and 35% in a
control group. She asked if the control group and the
demonstration group should be the same size and wondered if
the results from the project would be valid.
Number 544
JAN HANSEN answered that the federal government's office in
health and human services that works with waivers prefers
projects to have a 50% control group and 50% demonstration
group. She indicated that when the DHSS had discussed with
the federal office the size of the Alaskan populations in
some areas, the federal offices said that a split of 65/35
is acceptable.
MS. KLEINKAUF asked the committee to find other ways to fund
the demonstration projects that would not affect the 25,000
children that receive AFDC. She referred to Rep. G. Davis'
suggestion to use funds from child support enforcement to
offset the ratable reduction to AFDC recipients and stated
that it may be a viable option. She then asked why the
demonstration could not be operated in conjunction with the
JOBS program. She asked Ms. Hansen about the citation to
the federal statutes and the code of federal regulations
that would prohibit that option. She felt that it would be
much more cost effective than setting up a whole new
mechanism to operate the waivers.
MS. HANSEN said to her understanding there is no statement
that the JOBS program cannot operate in conjunction with the
demonstration. She said some of the waivers are part of the
JOBS program, and the state could design a waiver project
that would operate within the JOBS program. She then stated
that the JOBS program is operated by the state and that the
Native JOBS programs is operated by Native grantees. She
indicated that under those circumstances there would be some
difficulty in "trying to run a waiver through." She did,
however, feel that those options could be explored.
Number 645
REP. BRICE asked Ms. Hansen to expound on why the state
would want to "go through the administrative rigmarole" to
make applications for waivers when the state can already
accomplish the intent through the Family Support Act.
MS. HANSEN said community service work experience is part of
the JOBS program. It is a required component, particularly
when the DHSS is serving two-parent unemployed families.
She said community service work experience can be an
additional component for those other than two-parent
families, as long as it meets the employability development
plan within the JOBS program. There is no prohibition to
expanding community service within the JOBS program;
however, the demonstration is a separate proposal in which
there would be a requirement for those who work in the JOBS
program to participate.
REP. BRICE asked why the funds that come from the ratable
reduction could not be invested into JOBS program, child
support, and child care versus employing 23 bureaucrats. He
felt there would be a greater return by investing in the
lower numbers of people on AFDC. He asked if that would be
a possibility.
MS. HANSEN said she could only speak to what was in the
bill. She stated, if Rep. Brice was asking if it was
possible for the DHSS to expand community service work
experience through the JOBS program, the answer was yes.
She said that in terms of it being part of the project, she
would have to defer to the sponsor.
Number 723
REP. BRICE asked how successful demonstration projects have
been in other states. He said it was his understanding the
programs were not instrumental in building strong resumes
and strong incomes for the participants. He said that
perhaps the projects only kept idle minds from remaining
idle.
MS. HANSEN maintained that she has kept up with much of the
literature and recently the Manpower Development Research
Corporation has done evaluation studies of some community
service projects. She said there is not a lot of experience
at this point. She said there is sometimes the desire to
require the recipient of AFDC to give something back to the
community in return for receiving benefits. Also, there is
the philosophy that community service is a way of getting a
person into a workplace and getting hands-on experience.
She said many of the community service work experiences have
not been long term, they have been for small groups of
people.
Number 786
REP. BRICE asked Rep. Hanley if the goals of the workfare
are to provide experience for the AFDC recipients or to
fulfill a social contract by paying back the community.
REP. HANLEY said it was a combination of both. He further
stated that paid employment along with disregards gives the
recipients the ability to improve their lifestyle. He said
currently, "after four months, you get to keep $30.00 of
anything you make. This bill will allow you to keep the
first $200.00 plus a third of that afterwards." He then
said that giving the disregards and having slots available
provides experience and gets recipients closer to leaving
the program.
Number 838
REP. BRICE said, to his understanding, there has been no
hard evidence that indicates recipients subsequently go into
higher paying jobs as a result of participating in the
project. He reiterated that he felt there are programs
currently available that could benefit from funds generated
by the ratable reduction.
Number 871
CHAIR TOOHEY asked for testimony from Fairbanks.
Number 875
ANNE SWIFT, Representative, Tanana Valley League of Women
Voters, testified via teleconference on CSHB 409. She
stated that she is opposed to cutting AFDC again. She said
the League of Women Voters believe that if there is going to
be some type of work related program, it should include job
training as financial incentives. She said that a workfare
program should do more than just get people out of the house
to do a volunteer job.
Number 904
REBECCA ROSSON, Member, Board of Directors, Alaskans with
Disabilities Association (ADA), testified via teleconference
from Fairbanks on CSHB 409. She stated that the bill makes
no provision for people on disability. She said at the
present time she is totally disabled, receives $409.00 from
welfare a month, has exhausted all other avenues and can not
receive additional help.
Number 982
CHAIR TOOHEY interjected and offered Ms. Rosson the office
telephone number of Jan Hansen, Director of the Division of
Public Assistance.
MS. ROSSON maintained that the bill does not take under
consideration that there are disabled parents. She felt
that it didn't make sense to take funds from those who have
very little.
CHAIR TOOHEY proceeded to give the office telephone number
of Ms. Hansen to Ms. Rosson.
Number 020
ROBIN WICKHAM, Member, ACCESS Alaska, testified via
teleconference in opposition to CSHB 409. She stated that
she is opposed to any additional cuts to AFDC or Adult
Public Assistance. She also said that there are many gray
areas in the bill. She said additional staff would have to
be hired to supervise and monitor a project of such
magnitude and consequently she felt there could be no
savings. She said that it takes manpower and money to train
people who are volunteers in community service work. She
said that nonprofit employees are already overworked and
underpaid and the responsibility of training volunteers from
the community service work program is burdensome. She
encouraged the committee to think about the individuals who
would be affected by further cuts.
Number 083
LOUISE CHARLES, Job Coordinator, Tanana Chiefs Conference,
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in opposition to
CSHB 409. She stated she is opposed to any cuts to AFDC and
Adult Public Assistance. She said it is very difficult to
train people to become independently employed and self-
supporting, even with comprehensive job services. She
maintained that the JOBS program is still quite new and felt
that money would be better spent by adequately funding it
instead of starting a brand new project. She felt that
rural villages were being overlooked as possibilities for
participating in the project.
Number 133
DAN LABROSSE, Staff Person, Deaf Community Services,
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in opposition to
CSHB 409. He stated that the legislation is "reinventing
the wheel." He felt there are excellent work programs
provided by the state. He felt the existing programs should
be more adequately funded and that new projects should not
be started.
TAPE 94-30, SIDE B
Number 000
CHAIR TOOHEY asked for testimony from Seward.
Number 005
KENNETH BLATCHFORD, Concerned Citizen, testified via
teleconference from Seward in opposition to CSHB 409. He
stated that he is opposed to any intent to reduce benefits
to those who really need them. He felt the legislation
would cause more bureaucracy and end up costing more. He
also said the existing job programs should be funded instead
of creating another new program.
Number 080
CHAIR TOOHEY asked for testimony in Juneau.
Number 085
PATRICK CUNNINGHAM, Member, Board of Directors, Alaska
Chapter of the National Association of Social Workers,
testified in Juneau on CSHB 409. He stated that he also had
been a representative on the Welfare Reform Task Force for
the legislature that was charged with implementing the
Family Support Act of 1988. He said a result of the Family
Support Act is the JOBS program. He felt if the JOBS
program was fully implemented, it would substantially reduce
welfare caseloads.
MR. CUNNINGHAM said the waiver part of CSHB 409 is excellent
in that it gives people extra money by tying them to a job.
He asserted that a waiver process can be very expensive,
citing that workfare has been part of some welfare reform
throughout the United States for quite a while. He said the
problem with workfare is that as a stand alone program it is
a totally ineffective way of moving people off of public
assistance. He maintained that most people "jump" at the
opportunity for programs that promote education and
training. He further stated that single parents can
participate in that program and he felt that if it was not
restricted to just single parents, there would be a lot more
people participating in the program. He said that the
waiver is positive, but the potential cost is under
reported.
MR. CUNNINGHAM maintained that other states have not funded
demonstration projects with ratable reductions. He said a
ratable reduction would affect the disabled and the elderly
who would not participate in the project. He further stated
that the concept of a workfare program would present various
difficulties in the long run. He suggested fully
implementing the JOBS programs, citing that the federal
government mandates that all AFDC recipients must
participate in the program. He said the problem is that
only 20% of AFDC recipients are in that program because of
inadequate funding.
MR. CUNNINGHAM further suggested that the state should wait
to see the Clinton Administration's plans for welfare
reform, citing that a bill is promised as early as April.
He asserted that if a group is locked into the project for
five years, those participants may not have the opportunity
to be involved in forthcoming welfare programs. He made a
suggestion to resurrect or create a task force to address
welfare reform that would customize the federal health care
plan into a viable and comprehensive welfare reform plan.
MR. CUNNINGHAM said a bill has been passed at the federal
level for community service. The bill encourages people to
participate in community service programs voluntarily so as
to receive money or funds to go on to college. He said it
was federal money that he felt AFDC recipients could take
advantage of. He stated that the main thrust of CSHB 409
does nothing but reduce benefits to poor people, again.
Number 400
CHAIR TOOHEY asked for questions.
REP. G. DAVIS referred to the other states that have
attempted workfare legislation and asked Mr. Cunningham if
the projects requested waivers.
MR. CUNNINGHAM said he was unsure, but a workfare program is
really ineffective as a stand alone program.
REP. G. DAVIS asked if there wasn't already enough training
programs.
MR. CUNNINGHAM said the programs are good, but the problem
is low participation rates due to inadequate funding.
Number 457
REP. NICHOLIA stated that the JOBS program is a very new
program and not many people know about it. She said that
people have to feel secure within a program and that they
won't be thrown out into the streets without their benefits.
CHAIR TOOHEY commented that it is a very valid program.
Number 480
SHERRIE GOLL, Lobbyist, Alaska Women's Lobby and KIDPAC,
testified in Juneau on CSHB 409. She stated that she was
concerned about the ratable reductions and the inclusion of
adult public assistance in those reductions. She said she
could not find one other state that has paid for its welfare
reform demonstration projects through waivers by taking
funds away from the aged, blind, and disabled. She asserted
that there are 10,000 people who cannot benefit in any way
from the projects. She urged the committee to consider
eliminating the adult public assistance cut entirely. She
further urged the committee to perhaps find an entirely
different way to fund the project. She felt that the JOBS
program is more relative to the needs of those on AFDC and
is very successful, but should be fully funded. She offered
an anecdote of a mother she met on the bus who participates
in Project Career and is being trained to become a
supervisor in the area of bookkeeping. She said that the
women attends the training courses and participates in
community service work, both of which leave her very little
time with her four children. Subsequently, Ms. Goll stated,
most people do not want to be on public assistance. She
also said there would be a displacement problem as a result
of organizations hiring uncompensated workers.
Number 713
CHAIR TOOHEY said the displacement of jobs had been
addressed previously.
REP. NICHOLIA said in her experience in working with public
assistance recipients that there was never enough money in
the JOBS program. She stated for the record that she had
"worked with Martha Halverson of DCRA in Fairbanks, and
every time we tried to get people that were on welfare into
the vocational training center, we always ran into money
problems with JTPA."
CHAIR TOOHEY said it is an expensive program. She asked for
further questions or testimony.
Number 739
REP. BRICE said he missed the displacement discussion and
asked if Rep. Hanley could address the issue. He also asked
what alternatives the state has when the project is locked
in for five years and in a year and a half "the feds say, go
ahead and do it... after we've expended all this money on
administration."
REP. HANLEY suggested that even in the JOBS program the
issue of job displacement exists. He said the legislation
would not force anything on nonprofits.
REP. BRICE maintained that the difference between the JOBS
program participants and the workfare participants would be
that the JOBS participant would be getting paid versus being
free labor. He asked Ms. Hansen if that was correct.
MS. HANSEN said the JOBS participants currently either do
community service work or job sampling, are not paid, and
receive their AFDC benefit. She addressed the issue of
displacement. She felt it will be an unresolved issue until
the nation decides to what degree community service should
be done. She said the response she has received from
nonprofits indicates that they have a lot of work that is
not being done because they have more work to do than people
to do it.
Number 829
REP. BRICE asked Ms. Anderson to address the issue of the
project being locked in for five years and the circumstances
resulting from the federal government assuming the
project(s) at their level.
REP. HANLEY referred to a possible amendment that Rep. Brice
had shared with him that would allow a state to stop the
waiver programs if indeed the federal government undertakes
various state projects. He acknowledged that the project
could benefit from some flexibility in that area.
REP. BRICE asked, if the federal government was to offer
disregards that are proposed in the demonstration, would
there be the potential that the state could not provide the
rest of the state with those disregards because of the
effect they would have on the demonstration project?
MS. HANSEN said that in the course of negotiations with the
federal government for a waiver, the terms and conditions
can be negotiated. She said if the waiver becomes a part of
federal law, the project could be halted or revised.
Number 894
REP. HANLEY read from Colorado state law, which indicated
that a mutually agreed upon strategy for dealing with the
demonstration would be arrived at by both the state and
federal government. The law further indicated that if a
mutual strategy cannot be agreed upon, then each department
reserves the right to withdraw any and all waivers. Rep.
Hanley said that the statute indicates that flexibility can
be incorporated into the waiver negotiations.
CHAIR TOOHEY stated that her intention was to hold the bill
in committee until appropriate changes have been made.
REP. G. DAVIS agreed with the intent of the bill, but said
the discussions within the meeting pertaining to workfare
programs, the JOBS program, and perhaps the use of
alternative funding has made him feel that the proposal
warrants further discussions.
CHAIR TOOHEY asked for comments from Rep. B. Davis.
Number 947
REP. B. DAVIS asked Rep. Hanley what citation he was reading
from.
REP. HANLEY replied that the statutory excerpt that he read
was from a waiver in Colorado pertaining to the terms and
conditions that the state had with the federal government.
REP. B. DAVIS asked if that waiver was approved.
REP. HANLEY said yes.
REP. B. DAVIS asked what the intention of the committee was
regarding the bill that day.
CHAIR TOOHEY said the committee would hold the bill over and
then asked when Rep. B. Davis would return to Juneau.
REP. B. DAVIS said she was unsure and indicated that her
return time depends on the outcome of her medical
appointment the following day. She further stated that her
concerns had been voiced very well by others in the meeting.
She felt another way should be found to fund the project.
She said she noticed that a savings is indicated in the
second year and asked why that is. She said she felt that
the savings would perhaps indicate that the project is
working, but she felt it shouldn't be a goal to put money
back into the general fund. She also stated that most
states that have similar projects do not use funds from
sources like AFDC. She asked someone to speak to the
aforementioned issues.
Number 991
REP. BRICE reiterated the questions posed by Rep. B. Davis.
MS. HANSEN asked Rep. B. Davis which year she was referring
to regarding savings.
TAPE 94-31, SIDE A
Number 000
MS. HANSEN asked again which year Rep. B. Davis was
referring to.
REP. B. DAVIS said she was referring to the second year of
the project.
MS. HANSEN said the analysis created a ratable reduction,
which in the most expensive year of the project matches the
cost of the project based on the original project cost.
REP. B. DAVIS asked if someone could work up different
percentages for ratable reductions and suggested .7% instead
of 1.7%.
REP. BRICE suggested a change in the ratable to make it
revenue neutral.
REP. B. DAVIS agreed.
CHAIR TOOHEY said there was no response to Rep. B. Davis'
request. She said, "we could certainly come up with those
numbers." She then asked if Rep. B. Davis had more comments
or questions.
REP. B. DAVIS said she could wait if the bill was going to
be held.
CHAIR TOOHEY said she would inform Rep. B. Davis of the date
for the next subcommittee meeting. She asked for further
comments. There were none. She then indicated that a
subcommittee meeting would be set up to address the concerns
brought up in the meeting. She then asked if that was the
wish of the committee. There was no argument.
Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR
TOOHEY ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:25 p.m.
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