Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/08/1993 03:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
February 8, 1993
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
SPECIAL GUESTS
Rep. Gail Phillips
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 114: "An Act allowing the Board of Nursing to authorize
an advanced nurse practitioner to dispense
medical, therapeutic, and corrective measures."
PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
HB 79: "An Act relating to recovery from a parent or
legal guardian of wilful or malicious destruction
of property by a minor."
PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
*HB 97: "An Act clarifying the responsibilities of the
Department of Health and Social Services and
parents for children who are committed to the
custody of the department and are placed by the
department with the parents; and providing for an
effective date."
PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
*HB 2: "An Act requiring drug and alcohol tests for
school bus drivers."
PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
*HB 100: "An Act relating to criminal charges brought
against minors."
PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
*HB 78: "An Act relating to the testimony of children in
certain criminal proceedings; and providing for an
effective date."
PASSED OUT WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS
* First public hearing.
WITNESS REGISTER
REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 104
Juneau, Alaska 998101-1182
Phone: (907) 465-4919
Position Statement: Prime Sponsor of HB 114
PATRICIA HONG
Alaska Nurses Association
237 E. Third Ave. #3
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Phone: (907) 274-0827
Position Statement: Supported HB 114
DARYL YOUNG, Director
Student Health Service
University of Alaska, Anchorage
3211 Providence Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Phone: (907) 786-4040
Position Statement: Supported HB 114
DR. DIXIE LIGHT
P.O. Box 382
Houston, Alaska 99694
Phone: (907) 892-8804
Position Statement: Supported HB 114
SUE ANN JENKENSON, Member
Alaska Nurses Association
237 E. Third Ave. #3
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Phone: (907) 274-0827
Position Statement: Supported HB 114
GAIL McGUILL, Executive Secretary
Board of Nursing
3601 C St.
Anchorage, Alaska 99503
Phone: (907) 561-2878
Position Statement: Supported HB 114
KAY LAHDENPERA
Municipality of Anchorage
P.O. Box 196650
Anchorage, Alaska 99519
Phone: (907) 343-4624
Position Statement: Supported HB 114
DR. PETER NAKAMURA, Director
Division of Public Health
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 110610
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0610
Phone: (907) 465-3090
Position Statement: Supported HB 114
VINCE USERA
Assistant Attorney General
Civil Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Phone: (907) 465-2398
Position Statement: Answered questions on HB 79
DIANNE OLSEN
Assistant Attorney General
Civil Division
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Phone: (907) 269-5100
Position Statement: Answered questions on HB 79
DEBORAH WING, Director
Division of Family and Youth Services
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 100630
Juneau, Alaska 99801-0630
Phone: (907) 465-3191
Position Statement: Supported HB 97
REP. GAIL PHILLIPS
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol, Room 216
Juneau, Alaska 99811-1182
Phone: (907) 465-2689
Position Statement: Prime Sponsor of HB 2
GARY BADER, Director
Division of Administrative Services
Department of Education
801 W. 10th St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1894
Phone: (907) 465-2875
Position Statement: Answered questions on HB 2
KATHY WELTZIN
Student Assistance Counselor
Floyd Dryden Middle School
10014 Crazy Horse Dr.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 463-1850
Position Statement: Supported HB 100
SHERRIE GOLL, Lobbyist
Alaska Women's Lobby
P.O. Box 22156
Juneau, Alaska 99802
Phone: (907) 463-6744
Position Statement: Opposed HB 100
DONNA SCHULTZ, Associate Coordinator
Division of Family and Youth Services
Department of Health and Social Services
P.O. Box 100630
Juneau, Alaska 99801-0630
Phone: (907) 465-3191
Position Statement: Answered questions on HB 100
RENA BUKOVICH
Aide to Rep. Eileen MacLean
Alaska State Legislature
Room 507 Capitol Building
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: (907) 465-672
Position Statement: Represented sponsor of HB 78
JERRY LUCKHAUPT
Legislative Legal Counsel
Division of Legal Affairs
Legislative Affairs Agency
130 Seward St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801-2105
Phone: (907) 465-2450
Position Statement: Drafted HB 78, answered questions
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 114
SHORT TITLE: DRUG DISPENSING:ADV. NURSE PRACTITIONERS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)
TOOHEY,Davies,MacLean,Bunde,B.Davis,James
TITLE: "An Act allowing the Board of Nursing to authorize an
advanced nurse practitioner to dispense medical,
therapeutic, and corrective measures."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/01/93 199 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/01/93 199 (H) HES, LABOR & COMMERCE
02/03/93 224 (H) COSPONSOR(S): JAMES
02/08/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 79
SHORT TITLE: DAMAGE TO PROPERTY BY MINORS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE,Toohey,Porter,
Olberg,Green
TITLE: "An Act relating to recovery from a parent or legal
guardian of wilful or malicious destruction of property by a
minor."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 130 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 130 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
01/29/93 184 (H) COSPONSOR(S): PORTER
02/03/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/05/93 240 (H) COSPONSOR(S): OLBERG, GREEN
BILL: HB 97
SHORT TITLE: PARENTAL CARE FOR CHILD IN STATE CUSTODY
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
TITLE: "An Act clarifying the responsibilities of the
Department of Health and Social Services and parents for
children who are committed to the custody of the department
and are placed by the department with the parents; and
providing for an effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/29/93 177 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/29/93 178 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/08/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 2
SHORT TITLE: DRUG TESTING FOR SCHOOL BUS DRIVERS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) PHILLIPS
TITLE: "An Act requiring drug and alcohol tests for school
bus drivers."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/04/93 25 (H) PREFILE RELEASED
01/11/93 25 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/11/93 25 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/08/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 100
SHORT TITLE: PROSECUTION OF JUVENILE FELONS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE,Green
TITLE: "An Act relating to criminal charges brought against
minors."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/29/93 178 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/29/93 178 (H) HES, JUDICIARY
02/03/93 224 (H) COSPONSOR(S): GREEN
02/05/93 240 (H) HES WAIVED 5-DAY HEARING
NOTICE,RULE 23
02/08/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 78
SHORT TITLE: TESTIMONY OF MINORS IN CRIMINAL TRIALS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MACLEAN,Toohey
TITLE: "An Act relating to the testimony of children in
certain criminal proceedings; and providing for an effective
date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 129 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 130 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/08/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-11A, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIR TOOHEY called the meeting to order at 3:08 p.m. and
noted members present. She announced that the meeting was
being teleconferenced to Anchorage, but Barrow had not yet
come on-line. She reminded participants that, as there was
no opposition to HB 114, it would be advisable to hurry
through testimony on it. She then turned over the chair's
gavel to C-Chair Con Bunde, who invited Rep. Toohey to
testify.
HB 114: EXTEND TOURISM MARKETING COUNCIL
Number 064
REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY testified as sponsor of HB 114. She
related the story of an Anchorage nurse practitioner who
asked the state licensing bureau why she was not allowed to
dispense medication, as most nurse practitioners are
advanced registered nurses operating in the Bush and they
are able to prescribe medicines, but are not allowed to
dispense them. She said the bill would allow advanced nurse
practitioners (ANPs) to dispense medicines when there is no
pharmacy available. She cited 126 letters from advanced
nurse practitioners about the bill, and a letter from state
pharmacists showing no opposition. She said the Indian
Health Service uses many advanced nurse practitioners in
villages, and to bar them from dispensing would do damage to
the state.
Number 108
PATRICIA HONG, PRESIDENT OF THE ALASKA NURSES ASSOCIATION,
testified from Anchorage in support of HB 114. She urged
support so that advanced nurse practitioners could continue
the proven valuable services they provide to rural and
indigent patients.
DARYL YOUNG, DIRECTOR OF STUDENT HEALTH AT THE UNIVERSITY OF
ALASKA-ANCHORAGE, testified from Anchorage in support of
HB 114. He said ANPs often need to dispense medications
when there is no accessible pharmacy, or when clients cannot
pay for medications and dispensation. When ANPs can
dispense medications, patients are more likely to obtain and
take their medications. The university student health
center has 8,000 potential patients, many of them lacking
money, health insurance, time and inclination to comply with
medical orders. Giving ANPs dispensary privileges, even in
urban areas, will dramatically increase prompt and proper
compliance with medical orders, he said. He also noted that
the drugs dispensed at the student health center are
premeasured and prepackaged, and none are compounded
on-site.
Number 183
CHAIR BUNDE noted that the Matanuska-Susitna Legislative
Information Office (LIO) was on-line. He asked witnesses to
limit testimony to two minutes to save time.
Number 186
DR. DIXIE LIGHT, A FAMILY NURSE-PRACTITIONER, testified from
the Mat-Su LIO. She said her patients in the Mat-Su valley
and north along the Parks Highway have little access to
drugstores and therefore may wait days before going to town
to fill the prescription, possibly too late. The ability to
prescribe supports her simple, rural practice, serving low-
income patients with medical care and information.
Number 202
SUE ANN JENKENSON, A MEMBER OF THE ALASKA NURSE PRACTITIONER
ASSOCIATION (transmission partially unintelligible)
testified from Anchorage in support of HB 114. She said the
change was necessary to provide complete care to patients
too poor to buy medicines or live in rural areas far from
pharmacies. Nurse practitioners in Alaska have been able to
practice independently since 1984, and to prescribe since
1985, and dispensing would complement these abilities.
Number 222
GAIL McGUILL, EXECUTIVE SECRETARY FOR THE ALASKA BOARD OF
NURSING, testified from Anchorage in support of HB 114. She
said ANP dispensing does occur around the state. A November
1992 survey of nurse practitioners in Alaska showed that 55
percent of the state's nurse practitioners dispense
medicine, with 25 percent of nurse practitioners working in
areas without pharmacies, and 22 percent in areas without
physicians. Ms. McGuill stated HB 114 would help prevent
degradation of such services. She said the Boards of
Nursing and Pharmacy have cooperated to set parameters for
ANP dispensing, and the parameters of ANP dispensation will
be defined by Board of Nursing regulation.
Number 248
KAY LAHDENPERA, OF THE MUNICIPALITY OF ANCHORAGE, testified
from Anchorage in support of HB 114. She said the
municipality has employed and used nurse practitioners since
1984 and would be glad to see them win dispensing authority,
the better to serve their clients.
Number 264
DR. PETER NAKAMURA, DIRECTOR OF THE DIVISION OF PUBLIC
HEALTH, testified in support of HB 114. He said it aids in
access and cost containment.
Number 272
CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony and asked the will of
the committee.
REP. AL VEZEY moved passage of HB 114 from the committee
with individual recommendations.
Hearing no objections to the motion, CHAIR BUNDE declared
HB 114 PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS.
HB 79: DAMAGE TO PROPERTY BY MINORS
Number 281
REP. TOOHEY called an at-ease. She then resumed the chair's
gavel and brought to the table HB 79, held over from the
previous week's meeting to satisfy a legal question. She
introduced VINCE USERA of the DEPARTMENT OF LAW to answer
any legal questions from the committee.
REP. BUNDE moved passage of HB 79 out of the committee with
individual recommendations.
REP. B. DAVIS complained that HB 79 was not on the committee
calendar, that she had not brought the bill folder, and that
she did not know what the legal questions were. She asked
whoever had questions to pose them.
CHAIR TOOHEY said the reason HB 79 was held over was to
answer legal questions on raising the damage level to
$50,000 from $2,000, and that Mr. Usera was available to
answer any such questions. She also noted that the meeting
calendar gave notice that bills held over from previous
meetings may be heard.
Number 300
VINCE USERA, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF LAW,
said he saw no reason why the damage limit could not be
raised.
CHAIR TOOHEY called a brief at-ease, then called the meeting
back to order.
Number 310
REP. VEZEY recalled previous questions from an insurance
lobbyist about whether such property damage compensation
payments could be claimed under homeowner's insurance
policies.
Number 320
MR. USERA said he could not answer; it depended upon the
specific insurance policy. He said the current statute
provided for separate civil action under which the victim of
a juvenile could recover up to $2,000 and the only change in
the new statute would be to raise the limit to $50,000.
Number 336
CHAIR TOOHEY repeated the motion, and hearing no objections,
declared HB 114 PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS.
HB 97: PARENTAL CARE FOR CHILD IN STATE CUSTODY
Number 344
CHAIR TOOHEY brought HB 97 to the table.
DIANNE OLSEN, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL IN THE HUMAN
SERVICES SECTION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF LAW, testified from
Anchorage, making herself available to answer questions on
HB 97. She referred to SB 396, from the 1992 legislative
session, which was drafted in response to the Alaska Supreme
Court decision on the case In re E.A.O. That court
decision indicated that the statute as constructed required
the Department of Health and Social Services to retain
responsibility to provide food, shelter, education and
medical care for children it had removed from abusive homes
and assumed legal custody of, even after they were returned
to the family. Ms. Olsen said that some attorneys in
Anchorage representing parents have argued not only that the
department is responsible for children's medical care, but
also for first and last months' rent for housing, and for
counseling not approved by the department. She said the
department had not contemplated assuming such responsibility
and felt HB 97 might correct the situation.
Number 375
REP. VEZEY asked why HB 97 includes language restricting the
state from assuming responsibility for granting a child
permission to enlist in the armed services.
MS. OLSEN said she could not answer, but the enlistment
language had been in the statute for years.
Number 388
CHAIR TOOHEY noted that a bill similar to HB 97, introduced
by the House HESS Committee, passed both houses of the
legislature without opposition in 1992, but died in the
closing days of the session. She said the sponsors of the
bill last year felt there was a danger that, if children
were not placed back with their families, the high cost of
caring for children might discourage the state from assuming
care for them.
REP. BUNDE asked whether HB 97 should not carry a negative
fiscal note, given that it might save the state the
potential medical, educational and housing costs. He also
asked whether such potential bills were accounted for in the
department's budget.
MS. OLSEN answered that In re E.A.O involved a child whose
medical bills exceeded $100,000. She said she did not know
whether, following the 1991 Supreme Court decision, the
department had to pay such costs. She said she thought the
department had waited until after the decision to see about
budgeting for such costs in hopes that last year's bill
would pass. She said a negative fiscal not was not
appropriate.
Number 418
DEBORAH WING, DIRECTOR OF THE DIVISION OF FAMILY AND YOUTH
SERVICES IN THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES,
testified in support of HB 97.
REP. PETE KOTT asked for an example of a case in which,
under current practice, the department would remove a child
from his home, then return him.
MS. WING said it could happen that the Department of Health
and Social Services could determine a child was in an unsafe
home and remove him. But after helping rectify the problems
in the home, the department could return the child to the
parents' physical custody, while still retaining legal
custody.
REP. KOTT asked if the department might ever remove a child
from one parent but later return him to a different parent,
if the parents were divorced or separated, or even joined
with other partners who might then be considered step-
parents.
MS. WING answered that there is a potential for a child to
be returned to a different home than the one from which he
was removed.
(Rep. Gail Phillips arrived at 3:36 p.m.)
Number 446
REP. GARY DAVIS asked what responsibility the state would
have for informing the parents of any medical problems their
child might develop while in state custody.
MS. WING answered that if a removed child is found to have
medical problems, then the department will (unintelligible)
the parents upon the child's return to the home, as
appropriate. She said the question would remain as to the
duration of the department's financial responsibility for
medical care of the child while he was living in his
parent's home, "until the department got out of a case plan
with the child and family."
REP. G. DAVIS noted that parents might be surprised by a
child's potentially expensive medical condition upon his
return.
MS. OLSEN said that was correct.
CHAIR TOOHEY asked for and received clarification from Rep.
Davis on his question.
Number 486
MS. WING added that if a child under state custody was found
to have medical problems, then the state would notify the
parents upon the child's return. But because the state
would not have fully dismissed its custody of the child, it
would retain responsibility for the costs of medical
treatment even after return to the home.
REP. KOTT asked where the statute indicates that the state
would assume financial responsibility. He said that creates
a dangerous situation in which parents might unload children
with severe medical problems into state custody.
MS. WING agreed with Rep. Kott. She said the state is now
responsible for children in both their physical and legal
custody, but HB 97 pertains to children in the state's legal
custody but in their parents' physical custody.
Number 505
REP. B. DAVIS expressed confusion about Ms. Wing's answers.
She asked whether parents might be allowed to pay some of
the costs of medical care for children even if the children
are in the state's legal custody.
MS. WING answered yes.
REP. B. DAVIS stated that the Department of Family and Youth
Services (DFYS) is required to plan a way to return to
parental custody any child for which it assumes legal
custody. She added that the parents are not kept ignorant
of a child's medical condition while the child is under
state custody. She said the bill clarifies the fact that
after a child returns to physical custody of the parents,
the state would be relieved of responsibility for medical
bills.
Number 537
REP. OLBERG asked again why HB 97 restricts the state from
delegating authority to grant a child permission to enlist
in the military.
MS. WING said she would have to find the answer later.
REP. VEZEY said he understood the bill to mean that the
authority to grant permission to marry or enlist could not
be delegated by the department.
Number 554
CHAIR TOOHEY said she read HB 97 to mean that the department
could not grant a child under its custody permission to
enlist; only the parents had that power to grant such
permission.
REP. VEZEY said he interpreted HB 97 to read that parents
whose children had been removed into state custody forfeited
the authority to grant permission for military enlistment,
which is required of 17-year-olds. However, he acknowledged
he may have read the bill incorrectly.
REP. BUNDE said it is likely the state does not want the
power over a child's enlistment; that power must remain with
the parents.
CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no further questions, closed testimony
on HB 97.
REP. B. DAVIS moved that the bill be passed with individual
recommendations and a zero fiscal note.
Number 566
CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, declared HB 97 PASSED
WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS. She announced the
teleconferenced portion of the meeting was concluded.
HB 2: DRUG TESTING FOR SCHOOL BUS DRIVERS
CHAIR TOOHEY brought HB 2 to the table and introduced Rep.
Gail Phillips.
TAPE 93-11A, SIDE B
Number 000
REP. GAIL PHILLIPS testified as SPONSOR OF HB 2. She said
she introduced the bill to help insure the safe
transportation of students to and from school, and that an
identical bill died at the end of last year's legislative
session. The bill would require school districts or Rural
Education Attendance Areas providing student transportation
to establish a drug and alcohol testing program, including
random testing at least once a year. She said current state
law provides for similar testing requirements in the case of
an accident or when reasonable cause exists. Though a
Legislative Affairs Legal Services memo raised the
possibility of challenges to the bill on probable cause
grounds, some courts have allowed random tests when public
interest is sufficiently great, Rep. Phillips said. She
said childrens' safety is of utmost public interest, and
state law already provides for testing of truck drivers,
pilots and train engineers. Other states have passed
similar laws. She referred to a 1991 North Slope Borough
drug testing policy and to a Legislative Research Agency
report for more information.
Number 068
REP. IRENE NICHOLIA asked how HB 2 would affect rural areas,
and how rural districts would effect drug and alcohol tests.
REP. PHILLIPS invited Department of Education officials to
answer those questions.
Number 082
GARY BADER, DIRECTOR OF ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES FOR THE
DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION (DOE), said rural areas would take
urine samples and mail them to testing labs. The state
would have to put out the testing services to bid to find a
lab.
REP. NICHOLIA said her district includes many remote
villages where mail service can take a week.
MR. BADER said the DOE would find a way to get the tests
done properly.
Number 100
REP. BUNDE asked how the districts would test for alcohol,
which is also required under the bill.
CHAIR TOOHEY said urinalysis samples used in drug tests
normally are good for 72 hours. She also asked if all bus
drivers in small villages are (unintelligible), and received
an affirmative answer.
REP. HARLEY OLBERG said some mail order urinalysis tests
have additives that extend their viability for testing
purposes to several days.
Number 130
REP. VEZEY asked the impetus for the law. He said Title 48,
part 40, of the Code of Federal Regulations requires him, as
an employer, to provide a drug-free workplace. He asked why
all employers are not subject to such laws.
REP. PHILLIPS said commercial bus drivers and other
commercial drivers now must pass drug and alcohol testing,
though school bus drivers do not in Alaska, even under new
commercial driver's license requirements taking effect in
April.
Number 156
REP. BUNDE asked why the testing did not require all school
employees, including crossing guards.
REP. PHILLIPS said she would consider that a rhetorical
question.
REP. OLBERG suggested it was because school bus drivers are
not represented by the National Education Association (NEA).
REP. PETE asked why the bill did not cover school crossing
guards.
CHAIR TOOHEY said she believed the bill includes those who
are in command of moving vehicles, including airplane
pilots, train engineers, tractor drivers, and school bus
drivers.
Number 172
REP. PHILLIPS said school crossing guards are often
volunteers.
REP. KOTT raised the issue of randomness. He said
administering truly random tests, instead of a test at least
once a year, would save money while still creating the fear
of imminent unannounced testing that would encourage
abstinence from drugs.
REP. PHILLIPS said bus drivers should receive a test at the
time of hiring.
MR. BADER stated the random testing schedule laid out in the
bill would serve as a deterrent nearly as good as true
randomness.
REP. OLBERG noted that the fiscal note said each district
would have to have its bus drivers tested at least once a
year.
REP. NICHOLIA asked if HB 2 would affect boat or airplane
drivers.
REP. PHILLIPS answered no. She also referred to the North
Slope Borough's testing law as an example of how rural
districts have implemented such a program.
Number 225
REP. NICHOLIA asked about the likelihood of "probable cause"
legal challenges.
REP. PHILLIPS said she did not care about the privacy of a
bus driver who is drunk or using drugs when weighed against
the safety of children. She said the fact that courts have
upheld such laws in Alaska, and that other states have
similar laws, far outweighs the possibility of violating a
driver's privacy.
Number 235
REP. NICHOLIA asked why no fiscal note reflected the cost of
defending legal challenges.
REP. PHILLIPS said she saw no need to budget for legal
challenges she did not expect to receive.
Number 244
REP. VEZEY expressed concern that HB 2 implies that the 62
school districts were not now in compliance with federal law
to maintain drug-free workplaces.
MR. BADER said he felt the intent of the bill was to serve
as a deterrent in addition to the laws already on the books.
Number 270
REP. KOTT repeated his concerns about the randomness of
testing as outlined in HB 2.
Number 285
REP. B. DAVIS said the committee could attach a letter of
intent regarding the randomness of the tests so that state
regulations could address such questions.
Number 294
MR. BADER stated that the random nature of the tests needs
only to be sufficient to be meaningful.
CHAIR TOOHEY closed public hearing on HB 2 and asked the
will of the committee.
REP. BUNDE moved passage with individual recommendations.
Hearing no objections, CHAIR TOOHEY announced HB 2 PASSED
WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS. She then called a five
minute at-ease at 4:10 p.m.
HB 100: PROSECUTION OF JUVENILE FELONS
Number 314
CHAIR TOOHEY called the meeting back to order at 4:15 p.m.
and brought HB 100 to the table.
Number 317
REP. BUNDE, PRIME SPONSOR, testified in support of HB 100.
He said it is an attempt to encourage young people to be
responsible for their behavior. The bill's thrust is to
change the burden of proof in deciding how to deal with
juveniles charged with major felonies. The bill would lift
the responsibility from the prosecution to show why a
juvenile should be tried as an adult, to the defense to show
why a juvenile should be tried as a juvenile, enjoying the
confidentiality of records and release from incarceration at
age 20.
REP. BUNDE noted that HB 100 does not eliminate the
possibility of granting waivers to such juveniles, allowing
them to be dealt with through the juvenile justice system.
He said the bill stems from his experience of watching
children go unpunished for their violations and gradually
develop into incorrigible criminals. By establishing
serious consequences for juvenile offenders, the bill would
help deter children from committing crimes, he said.
Number 360
KATHY WELTZIN, STUDENT ASSISTANCE COUNSELOR AT FLOYD DRYDEN
MIDDLE SCHOOL IN JUNEAU, testified in support of HB 100.
She related that the had discussed the bill with school
counselors, a vice principal, a principal, a police officer,
and a public health nurse, all of whom work with children,
and was surprised at their unanimous support for such a
bill. She was told that children need to be accountable;
that the current system enables juvenile violators to
continue criminal behavior; that children understand and
exploit their advantages in the juvenile justice system; and
that children view their nonage as a time to practice
criminal techniques at low risk of serious punishment. She
said adults owe children "tough love" and clear boundaries
for acceptable behavior. She acknowledged that she did not
ask children how they felt, and admitted she was remiss in
not doing so.
Number 395
MS. WING, DIRECTOR, DFYS, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH & SOCIAL
SERVICES, testified in favor of a bill to waive juvenile
offenders into adult court. She said the department would
need clarification of language in the bill concerning where
juvenile offenders would be housed while the decision was
made as to where he would be tried.
REP. BUNDE agreed that the question of housing juvenile
offenders was vague in light of the pending fate of a
governor's proposal to create "boot camps" for them. He
noted that while judges are hesitant to place young
offenders into adult jails, it was not clear what form
juvenile facilities would take.
Number 414
REP. NICHOLIA mentioned that state law prohibits placing
juveniles into adult prisons.
Number 420
SHERRIE GOLL, LOBBYIST FOR THE ALASKA WOMEN'S LOBBY,
testified in opposition to HB 100. She said she has long
opposed such legislation, and argued that the current system
allows judges to determine whether juvenile offenders should
be tried as juveniles or waived into adult court. She
referred to a case in which police did not insist on having
a juvenile's parents present during questioning, which led
to the overruling of a judge's order to waive the juvenile
into adult court, and blamed police, not the current system,
for the error. She said the juvenile justice system may
need to be able to hold children in custody past the age of
20 to allow for lengthy court proceedings.
Number 478
REP. BUNDE voiced a difference of opinion on fiscal notes
for HB 100, in terms of how different state departments
would be affected by the bill. He said the decision to
waive a juvenile into adult court must entail an additional
hearing, contrary to the provisions of a similar state
Senate bill that would not allow such a hearing. He said
erring on the side of caution, even at the cost of more
time, would help ensure justice were done. He said 15 and
16 year olds are more sophisticated than in the past. He
expressed concern that juveniles released from the juvenile
justice system at age 20, with records of their crimes
sealed from public view, might pose a danger to the public
at large, and referred to such a case in Alaska.
Number 505
REP. NICHOLIA asked why there was no fiscal note from the
Department of Law, and whether he had sought a position
paper from the department.
REP. BUNDE answered that there was a fiscal note from the
Department of Administration, but he had not asked for one
from the Department of Law. He said he had spoken with
legislative research and legal offices, which helped write
the bill. He said a sectional analysis was done by
Legislative Legal Services.
TAPE 93-11B, SIDE A
Number 000
REP. BRICE asked for a prediction of the increase in jail
populations through passage of HB 100.
REP. BUNDE said the support materials for the bill included
numbers of people who might be tried, then either be waived
into adult court or not. He said four people were tried as
adults in 1990 who might fall under this bill, six in 1989,
and one in 1988. He did not know how many people would be
tried under the bill in the future, but predicted defense
attorneys would work hard to see their juvenile clients
tried in juvenile court.
Number 030
REP. BRICE asked about housing alternatives for juvenile
offenders other than the "boot camps" proposed by the
governor.
REP. BUNDE said that, as state law bars incarcerating
juveniles and adults in close proximity, it might be
possible to place juvenile offenders in adult prisons but
keep them separate.
Number 050
REP. OLBERG said he could not imagine that housing would not
be addressed in regulations that might be written to
implement the bill.
Number 070
DONNA SCHULTZ, ASSOCIATE COORDINATOR FOR DFYS, asked where
juvenile offenders would be housed after arrest for crimes
that might lead to eventual trial as an adult.
REP. BRICE asked whether juveniles housed in the juvenile
corrections system would need to be separated from other
offenders convicted of lesser crimes.
Number 100
MS. SCHULTZ said juveniles are now held in juvenile
facilities awaiting the waiver decision. Once waived into
adult court, the juvenile offenders are immediately sent to
adult facilities.
REP. BUNDE said he believed state law requires juvenile
offenders to be held separately from adults.
Number 135
CHAIR TOOHEY closed testimony on HB 100 and asked the will
of the committee.
REP. OLBERG moved passage with individual recommendations.
REP. NICHOLIA objected, citing a desire for a fiscal note
and position statement from the Department of Law, and
clarification of the housing questions.
REP. OLBERG said the offices of Public Advocacy and Public
Defenders are part of the Department of Law, and asked
whether their fiscal notes were not sufficient.
Number 167
REP. BUNDE encouraged passage of HB 100, and said that other
committees of referral might better answer such questions.
CHAIR TOOHEY announced a roll call vote on the motion. The
vote was 6-2. Those voting yea were Reps. Toohey, Bunde, G.
Davis, Vezey, Kott, Olberg, B. Davis. Those voting nay were
Reps. Nicholia and Brice. Therefore, HB 100 was PASSED OUT
WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS.
HB 78: TESTIMONY OF MINORS IN CRIMINAL TRIALS
Number 187
House Bill 78 was brought to the table.
Number 190
RENA BUKOVICH, STAFF AIDE TO REP. EILEEN MACLEAN, PRIME
SPONSOR, testified on HB 78. She read the sponsor statement
from Rep. MacLean (on file in the committee room) saying
that current law allows courts to allow child victims or
witnesses to testify via closed circuit television or
one-way mirrors to allow effective communication and to
avoid trauma to the child. The bill would allow courts to
extend those privileges up to the age of 16. She said the
U.S. Supreme Court has upheld such procedures as outweighing
an accused's right to confront witnesses against him.
MS. BUKOVICH said that a position paper on HB 78 from the
Public Defender's office indicated that without compelling
state interest, such a law suffers constitutional infirmity.
She said the state's compelling interest now applied to
those up to 13 years old and could be applied to those up to
16 years old, at the judge's discretion.
Number 240
REP. VEZEY asked whether a juror might question the value of
testimony from an invisible witness, and whether that might
make it harder to win convictions.
MS. BUKOVICH said courts have ruled that such testimony is
only allowed under special findings, and that there would be
few cases in which it would be allowed; when 14 or 15 year
olds would deserve protection from the trauma of testifying.
Number 250
REP. BUNDE said testimony from a hidden witness might tend
to prompt a juror's suspicion that the charges forcing such
sequestration might be very serious. He asked how many
times there had been a need for testimony from a concealed
witness in the past year.
MS. BUKOVICH said she did not know, but the court system
might.
REP. BUNDE asked what prompted the bill.
MS. BUKOVICH said the Maniilaq Association had asked for
such a bill in response to some cases of 14 and 15 year-olds
who experienced stress in testifying.
Number 282
REP. BUNDE foresaw the potential for extra stress for young
people from small towns going to big cities to testify.
REP. BRICE agreed with Rep. Vezey's concerns about the
validity of a hidden witness' testimony. He asked why the
bill limited such protection at 16 years.
MS. BUKOVICH said keeping the limit to those below 16, the
age at which youths can drive automobiles and otherwise
behave in adult-like activities, avoids the question of
whether they are children or adults.
Number 311
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL WITH THE LEGAL AFFAIRS
DIVISION, which drafted HB 78, said the U.S. Supreme Court
has said the states have a legitimate interest in protecting
children who may have to testify in court, and that the law
does not guarantee face-to-face confrontation in all cases
if it would result in stress for a child. The availability
of cross-examination and observation by the jury are enough
to protect the accused's confrontation rights. He said the
age of 16 is the upper limit for many rights, such as
unrestricted driver's licenses.
CHAIR TOOHEY said she supported HB 78, and that the judge
has discretion to order a witness to testify in seclusion as
a kindness to the child.
Number 368
MR. LUCKHAUPT said judges instruct juries not to draw any
conclusions as to the value of testimony delivered from a
witness thus sequestered. He said such protections would be
infrequently used, but would be helpful. He offered that in
his experience as a prosecutor he would dismiss a case
rather than require a child to suffer significant emotional
harm by testifying before a defendant if he could not find
any other evidence to effect a conviction.
Number 426
CHAIR TOOHEY closed public testimony on HB 78 and asked the
will of the committee.
REP. KOTT moved passage with individual recommendations.
CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objection, declared HB 78 PASSED
WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS.
There being no additional business before the committee,
Chair Toohey ADJOURNED the meeting at 5:04 p.m.
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