Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/21/2000 03:04 PM HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
               HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL                                                                               
                   SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                         March 21, 2000                                                                                         
                            3:04 p.m.                                                                                           
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
Representative Fred Dyson, Chairman                                                                                             
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
Representative Tom Brice                                                                                                        
Representative Allen Kemplen                                                                                                    
Representative John Coghill                                                                                                     
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
All members present                                                                                                             
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
HOUSE BILL NO. 416                                                                                                              
"An  Act  relating  to  insurance  coverage  for  prostate  cancer                                                              
     - MOVED HB 416 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 329                                                                                       
"An  Act  relating  to  services   and  information  available  to                                                              
pregnant women  and other persons; and requiring  informed consent                                                              
and a 24-hour  waiting period before an abortion  may be performed                                                              
unless there is a medical emergency."                                                                                           
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
HOUSE BILL NO. 256                                                                                                              
"An Act relating  to reports of suspected child  abuse or neglect,                                                              
and requiring  that, as part of  the investigation of  the reports                                                              
of suspected child abuse or neglect,  all official interviews with                                                              
children  who are  alleged to  have  been abused  or neglected  be                                                              
     - SCHEDULED BUT NOT HEARD                                                                                                  
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
BILL: HB 416                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: PROSTATE CANCER SCREENING                                                                                          
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/16/00      2222     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/16/00      2222     (H)  L&C, HES                                                                                            
 3/17/00               (H)  L&C AT  3:15 PM CAPITOL 17                                                                          
 3/17/00               (H)  Moved CSHB 416(L&C) Out of Committee                                                                
 3/20/00      2610     (H)  L&C RPT 3DP 2NR                                                                                     
 3/20/00      2610     (H)  DP: BRICE, CISSNA, ROKEBERG;                                                                        
 3/20/00      2610     (H)  NR: MURKOWSKI, HALCRO                                                                               
 3/20/00      2611     (H)  INDETERMINATE FISCAL NOTE (ADM)                                                                     
 3/20/00      2611     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DCED)                                                                             
 3/20/00      2619     (H)  FIN REFERRAL ADDED                                                                                  
 3/21/00               (H)  HES AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                         
BILL: HB 329                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE: INFO AND INFORMED CONSENT FOR ABORTION                                                                             
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/02/00      2064     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/02/00      2064     (H)  HES, JUD, FIN                                                                                       
 2/04/00      2104     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): KOHRING                                                                               
 2/09/00      2156     (H)  COSPONSOR(S): DYSON, OGAN                                                                           
 2/16/00      2207     (H)  SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE INTRODUCED                                                                       
 2/16/00      2207     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS                                                                     
 2/16/00      2207     (H)  HES, JUD, FIN                                                                                       
 2/16/00      2207     (H)  REFERRED TO HES                                                                                     
 3/21/00               (H)  HES AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                         
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
MICHAEL H. MILLER                                                                                                               
6737 Gray Street                                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 416.                                                                            
DR. PETER NAKAMURA, Director                                                                                                    
Central Office                                                                                                                  
Division of Public Health                                                                                                       
Department of Health & Social Services                                                                                          
PO Box 110610                                                                                                                   
Juneau, Alaska  99811                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on HB 416 and testified                                                                 
on HB 329.                                                                                                                      
GORDON EVANS, Lobbyist                                                                                                          
Health Insurance Association of America                                                                                         
211 Fourth Street, Suite 305                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on HB 416.                                                                              
REBECCA HOWE                                                                                                                    
PO Box 6211                                                                                                                     
Sitka, Alaska  99835                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 329.                                                                                  
SANDY DORAN                                                                                                                     
HC 31, Box 5213B                                                                                                                
Wasilla, Alaska  99654                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 329.                                                                            
EILEEN BECKER Director                                                                                                          
Homer Crisis Pregnancy Center                                                                                                   
PO Box 2                                                                                                                        
Homer, Alaska  99706                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 329.                                                                            
ALEATHA MARTIN                                                                                                                  
1540 Scenic Loop                                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 329.                                                                            
REXANN BASSLER                                                                                                                  
13100 Badger Lane                                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska  99516                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 329.                                                                                       
KAREN VOSBURGH, Executive Director                                                                                              
Alaska Right to Life                                                                                                            
PO Box 1847                                                                                                                     
Palmer, Alaska  99645                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 329.                                                                                       
HEIDI LIVENGOOD                                                                                                                 
PO Box 750811                                                                                                                   
Fairbanks, Alaska  99775                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 329.                                                                                       
ROZ JENKINS, Chairperson                                                                                                        
Advisory Council                                                                                                                
Planned Parenthood of Alaska, Sitka clinic                                                                                      
5 Maksoutoff Drive                                                                                                              
Sitka, Alaska  99835                                                                                                            
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 329.                                                                                       
DR. NELSON ISADA                                                                                                                
3300 Providence Drive                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska  99508                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 329.                                                                                       
KARL ASHENBRENNER                                                                                                               
Juneau Pro-Choice Coalition                                                                                                     
Member, Alaska Pro-Choice                                                                                                       
6013 Pine Street                                                                                                                
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 329.                                                                                  
DEBBIE JOSLIN                                                                                                                   
PO Box 377                                                                                                                      
Delta Junction, Alaska  99737                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 329.                                                                                       
WENDY S. CLOYD                                                                                                                  
2148 Old Steese Highway                                                                                                         
Fairbanks, Alaska  99712                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Her written testimony in support of HB 329                                                                 
was read into the record by Danielle Serino, Staff to                                                                           
Representative Coghill.                                                                                                         
ANN HARRISON                                                                                                                    
3270 Rosie Creek Road                                                                                                           
Fairbanks, Alaska  99775                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 329.                                                                                  
DAWN HOOKS                                                                                                                      
1324 Chirikof Court                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska  99507                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 329.                                                                            
RUBY FLETCHER                                                                                                                   
PO Box 521111                                                                                                                   
Big Lake, Alaska  99652                                                                                                         
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 329.                                                                            
DR. COLLEEN MURPHY                                                                                                              
2811 Illiamna                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska  99517                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 329.                                                                                  
RUTH EWIG                                                                                                                       
2325 30th Avenue                                                                                                                
Fairbanks, Alaska  99701                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 329.                                                                                       
MARVELLE WILLIAMS                                                                                                               
1930 Stonegate Circle                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska  99515                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 329.                                                                            
CATHY GIRARD                                                                                                                    
2907 West 35th                                                                                                                  
Anchorage, Alaska  99517                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against  HB 329.                                                                                 
KATHERINE DAVEY                                                                                                                 
4880 New Castle Way                                                                                                             
Anchorage, Alaska  99503                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against  HB 329.                                                                                 
ROBIN SMITH                                                                                                                     
14100 Jarvi                                                                                                                     
Anchorage, Alaska  99515                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against  HB 329.                                                                                 
JOYCE LAINE                                                                                                                     
3705 Arctic, Number 2045                                                                                                        
Anchorage, Alaska  99503                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against  HB 329.                                                                                 
JENNIFER RUDINGER, Executive Director                                                                                           
Alaska Civil Liberties Union                                                                                                    
PO Box 201844                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska  99520                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against  HB 329.                                                                                 
LAVERNE PETTIGER                                                                                                                
6742 Stella Place                                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska  99507                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 329.                                                                            
LEILA WISE                                                                                                                      
Alaska First Choice Alliance                                                                                                    
PO Box 244034                                                                                                                   
Anchorage, Alaska  99524                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against  HB 329.                                                                                 
HUGH FLEISCHER                                                                                                                  
1401 West Eleventh Avenue                                                                                                       
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against  HB 329.                                                                                 
CAREN ROBINSON, Lobbyist                                                                                                        
Alaska Women's Lobby                                                                                                            
PO Box 33702                                                                                                                    
Juneau, Alaska  99803                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 329.                                                                                  
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-32, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN FRED DYSON called the House  Health, Education and Social                                                              
Services  Standing  Committee  meeting   to  order  at  3:04  p.m.                                                              
Members present at  the call to order were  Representatives Dyson,                                                              
Whitaker, Green,  Brice and Coghill.  Representatives  Kemplen and                                                              
Morgan arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                                  
HB 416 - PROSTATE CANCER SCREENING                                                                                            
CHAIRMAN  DYSON announced  the first  order of  business as  House                                                              
Bill No. 416, "An Act relating to  insurance coverage for prostate                                                              
cancer screening."                                                                                                              
Number 0062                                                                                                                     
MICHAEL H.  MILLER came  forward to testify  in support of  HB 416                                                              
and read the following testimony:                                                                                               
     I am an advanced prostate cancer  patient and a prostate                                                                   
     cancer  advocate.   I  became  a four-year  survivor  of                                                                   
     prostate cancer on January 17,  2000.  At the time of my                                                                   
     diagnosis in 1996, I was given  17 to 35 months to live.                                                                   
     An aggressive  clinical trial program has enabled  me to                                                                   
     be  here  today  to  urge  your   support  for  HB  416.                                                                   
     (However, I must say I've had  some side effects through                                                                   
     a program that involved a drug  called Suramin, and I've                                                                   
     lost  hearing  in my  right  ear,  and I'm  wearing  the                                                                   
     sunglasses  because I have  light sensitivity  problems.                                                                   
     I also  have bone  cancer as  well as osteoporosis,  and                                                                   
     adrenal  deficiency  syndrome,  which means  my  adrenal                                                                   
     gland system will shut down due to treatment.)                                                                             
     In  1996,   the  legislature  passed  SB  253,   a  bill                                                                   
     requiring insurers to cover  the cost of annual prostate                                                                   
     cancer screening for men 50  years or older.  House Bill                                                                   
     416 would amend that law by  requiring this screening be                                                                   
     covered at  age 40, and at age  35 for men at  high risk                                                                   
     of contracting this disease.   "High risk" is defined in                                                                   
     the bill as  a person who is an African-American  or who                                                                   
     has a family history of prostate cancer.                                                                                   
     According to the American Cancer  Society, this year 1.2                                                                   
     million Americans  will contract cancer, which  is every                                                                   
     25 seconds somebody will be  diagnosed; and 552,000 will                                                                   
     die of the  disease, which is every 56 seconds.   In our                                                                   
     state, an estimated 1,500 Alaskans,  or four a day, will                                                                   
     contract cancer this year, 200  more people on an annual                                                                   
     basis than three  years ago.  An estimated  700 Alaskans                                                                   
     will  die of  cancer this  year, 2  per day,  or 58  per                                                                   
     Prostate  cancer  accounts for  29  percent  of all  the                                                                   
     male-related  cancers and 11  percent of  cancer-related                                                                   
     deaths  in men.   This  year, approximately  715 men  in                                                                   
     Alaska  will  be  diagnosed   with  cancer,  nearly  one                                                                   
     quarter with prostate cancer.   Of the estimated 354 men                                                                   
     that will  die of  cancer this year  in Alaska,  about 5                                                                   
     percent  will  die  from  prostate   cancer.    African-                                                                   
     American  men   have  a  32   percent  higher   risk  of                                                                   
     contracting this disease than others.                                                                                      
     In    1979,    Dr.    Gerald     Murphy,    a    Seattle                                                                   
     oncology/urologist,  developed   the  Prostate  Specific                                                                   
     Blood  Antigen  [PSA]  test to  help  diagnose  prostate                                                                   
     cancer ...  The test became  available to all doctors in                                                                   
     1990.  A decade old, this test  has led to a decrease in                                                                   
     the prostate cancer mortality  rate.  In 1976, there was                                                                   
     a  30  percent  mortality rate  for  men  with  prostate                                                                   
     cancer.   In 2000,  that mortality  rate is expected  to                                                                   
     drop  to 17.7  percent, due  in  large part  to the  PSA                                                                   
     Today, more and more young men  are being diagnosed with                                                                   
     prostate  cancer.    According to  the  American  Cancer                                                                   
     Society,   209,900  men  in   the  United  States   were                                                                   
     diagnosed with prostate cancer  in 1997, and 41,800 died                                                                   
     of the  disease.   About 23 percent  or 47,600 of  those                                                                   
     diagnosed that year were under age 65.                                                                                     
     As a patient  who was diagnosed with prostate  cancer at                                                                   
     age  43, I know  that prostate  cancer in  men under  65                                                                   
     tends  to   be  more  aggressive   in  nature.     Early                                                                   
     detection, especially for men  who are high risk, is the                                                                   
     best way  to save lives.   I have  a vested interest  in                                                                   
     this legislation  because my two  sons have up to  a six                                                                   
     times  higher   risk  of  contracting   prostate  cancer                                                                   
     because I  have the disease.   They now know with  me, I                                                                   
     was as young as 34.                                                                                                        
     Located  in your packet  is a  page listing  statistical                                                                   
     information ...  which is the  third page in,  under the                                                                   
     reference   material,  from   the  1999  Alaska   Cancer                                                                   
     Registry reported data from  1996, and the 2000 American                                                                   
     Cancer Society-Cancer  Facts and Figures  indicating the                                                                   
     prostate cancer risk by age groupings.                                                                                     
     Statistics for 1999 and 2000  show that less than one in                                                                   
     10,000, a  man is predicted to contract  prostate cancer                                                                   
     before age  40.  In  1999, statistics  for the 40  to 59                                                                   
     age group show one in 57 will  contract the disease.  In                                                                   
     1996, this  was one in 59.   The 2000 statistics  show a                                                                   
     greater occurrence  in this age  group, with one  in 53.                                                                   
     Four years ago the statistics  in the 40 to 59 age group                                                                   
     were one in  59.  If this trend continues,  in 2008, men                                                                   
     in  this age  group  will have  a one  in  35 chance  of                                                                   
     contracting prostate cancer.                                                                                               
     With  an aging baby-boomer  society,  more and more  men                                                                   
     will be  diagnosed with  prostate cancer.   It would  be                                                                   
     prudent  for  the  State of  Alaska  and  the  insurance                                                                   
     industry  to make an  investment in preventative  health                                                                   
     care  maintenance  for  men   starting  prostate  cancer                                                                   
     screening at  the age of 35  for those at high  risk and                                                                   
     age  40 for others.   House  Bill 416  will help men  be                                                                   
     diagnosed  at  a  younger age,  saving  both  lives  and                                                                   
     In 1999, Alaska  Cancer Registry report shows  that only                                                                   
     two  men, ...  40  to 44  were diagnosed  with  prostate                                                                   
     cancer and ten  in the 45 to 49 age group;  I was one of                                                                   
     those two men  in 1996.  At age 43 I was  diagnosed with                                                                   
     advanced  prostate cancer.   If  the PSA  test had  been                                                                   
     made available  to me at age  40, I would  probably have                                                                   
     been diagnosed  with early-state prostate cancer  and my                                                                   
     disease  might not  have  spread.   Over  the weekend  I                                                                   
     spoke  from  a gentleman  from  North  Pole ...  he  was                                                                   
     diagnosed  last  April at  the  age of  48,  and he  was                                                                   
     waiting for the  age of 50 for the current  screening to                                                                   
     begin, with no known family  history.  I think that is a                                                                   
     perfect  example  of  why  we  might  want  to  consider                                                                   
     dropping this down to age 40 for that reason.                                                                              
     Prostate  cancer has left  me unable to  work.   I, like                                                                   
     many cancer  survivors, [am]  receiving Social  Security                                                                   
     Disability Income and State  Disability Retirement.  The                                                                   
     average cost for prostate cancer  treatment is $6,000 to                                                                   
     $10,000 annually.   My expenses  are running  $12,000 to                                                                   
     $15,000 annually  and that does  not include  the office                                                                   
     visits; that's just medicine.                                                                                              
     It  is cost-effective  to catch and  treat this  disease                                                                   
     early  on,  rather  than  pay   for  long-term  cost  of                                                                   
     treatment  estimated  at $48,690  per  person.   If  you                                                                   
     refer to the  first page of the reference  material with                                                                   
     the Pay Now  or Pay Later diagram, ... it  will show you                                                                   
     that if  a person from age 35  to 65 eats ten  slices of                                                                   
     low-fat  cheese   pizza  per  week,  the   tomato  sauce                                                                   
     contains  cancer-fighting  lycopene,  which  is  a  high                                                                   
     anti-oxidant. ... The cost will  be $18,720.  But if you                                                                   
     have or  get prostate  cancer, it  will be $48,690  from                                                                   
     diagnosis until death.                                                                                                     
Number 0660                                                                                                                     
     House Bill  416 should not  cause insurance  premiums to                                                                   
     increase.  Although insurers  generally oppose mandates,                                                                   
     when SB 253 was passed in 1996,  an Aetna representative                                                                   
     testified that  Aetna would not oppose this  bill if the                                                                   
     legislature  felt the  benefits of  the screening  would                                                                   
     outweigh the  small costs.   He said an argument  can be                                                                   
     made  that   early  detection  should  result   in  more                                                                   
     efficient   treatment   and    ultimately   avoid   high                                                                   
     catastrophic treatment costs.                                                                                              
     Men  dying   of  prostate  cancer  are   leaving  behind                                                                   
     spouses, children  and many family members  and friends.                                                                   
     While we  have made great  strides in the  United States                                                                   
     in  cancer treatment  research, too  many men are  still                                                                   
     being lost at  too young an age.  An example  I can give                                                                   
     you:  I was in attendance last  year lobbying on Capitol                                                                   
     Hill  in Washington,  D.C., with  100 other  men and  18                                                                   
     spouses,   and   little   Sebastian   Hanson   (ph)   of                                                                   
     Scottsdale,  Arizona, stole everybody's  heart.   He was                                                                   
     five months old when his father  passed away of prostate                                                                   
     cancer, and Sebastian Hanson  (ph) will never, ever know                                                                   
     what his  father stood for.   I lost a friend,  ... Mark                                                                   
     (indisc.) of Eugene,  Oregon.  He died at the  age of 41                                                                   
     with advanced prostate cancer;  and he left behind three                                                                   
     children:   a 10-year  old daughter,  a 14-year old  son                                                                   
     and a 16-year old son.                                                                                                     
     Over the last  four years approximately 700  Alaskan men                                                                   
     have  been  diagnosed with  prostate  cancer.   Many  of                                                                   
     their sons will also contract  this disease.  Let's give                                                                   
     men an  opportunity to be  diagnosed at an  earlier age.                                                                   
     Those with  a five-year survival rate from  this disease                                                                   
     have  a 100  percent  chance they  will  die of  another                                                                   
     cause.   I  would like  to leave  my two  sons the  best                                                                   
     possible gift:   an opportunity for them  to be screened                                                                   
     for prostate cancer at an earlier  age, because the odds                                                                   
     are that  they will  contract the  disease at a  younger                                                                   
     age  than I  did.  I  urge your  support of  HB 416  for                                                                   
     future health and well-being of all Alaskan families.                                                                      
Number 0795                                                                                                                     
MR.  MILLER drew  attention  to the  reference  material, page  8,                                                              
Cancer, Basic  Facts.   The material  indicates if screenings  are                                                              
done for  various cancers,  the five-year  relative survival  rate                                                              
for  various  cancers  is  about  80 percent.    People  who  were                                                              
diagnosed in  1995, there is an  80 percent success rate  in 2000.                                                              
If all Americans  participate in a regular cancer  screening, this                                                              
rate would increase to 95 percent.                                                                                              
Number 0874                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  GREEN  asked  Mr. Miller  if  there  is a  way  to                                                              
prevent prostate cancer.                                                                                                        
MR. MILLER  said there is  no way to prevent  it.  The  lesions of                                                              
prostate cancer start  at puberty but are so minuscule  they can't                                                              
be measured.   As a  man ages, the  level of prostate  cancer will                                                              
increase.  In 1996, there were 9  to 11 million men walking around                                                              
with prostate cancer.  A doctor has  said that figure is now 20 to                                                              
30 million.  A  low-fat diet is good; four years  ago, [the effect                                                              
of] diet  was inconclusive,  but diet is  playing a factor.   Diet                                                              
and exercise are the least costly  things that can be done to slow                                                              
the onset of any disease.                                                                                                       
MR. MILLER  thanked the  committee for sponsoring  this bill.   He                                                              
has spoken to 16,000 people in the  last 43 months and over 14,410                                                              
Alaskans.   In four different cases,  he has run into men  who are                                                              
high risk;  because they see an age  limit, they are not  going in                                                              
to be tested.  This bill will create  more access and availability                                                              
if men choose to be tested.                                                                                                     
Number 1035                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE asked  if  there have  been  any studies  to                                                              
cross-reference  the  preventative   side  and  how  those  impact                                                              
somebody who  has the genetic  predisposition to  develop prostate                                                              
Number 1062                                                                                                                     
MR. MILLER  said there have been  studies done on men to  focus on                                                              
diet, but  how much that has  slowed the onset of  prostate cancer                                                              
he  doesn't believe  has  been that  significant.   It  is just  a                                                              
matter of time  that the majority  of the men who have  had family                                                              
history are  going to come  down with it.   He is  encouraging his                                                              
sons to watch their diets.  He reported  that canola oil, which is                                                              
recommended as  being good  for the heart,  has linoleic  acid (as                                                              
does red  meat)in it,  which is not  advantageous for  people that                                                              
have family histories  of prostate cancer because  it promotes the                                                              
onset of prostate cancer.                                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN DYSON  asked Dr.  Nakamura if this  bill is  good medical                                                              
Number 1183                                                                                                                     
DR. PETER NAKAMURA,  Director, Central Office, Division  of Public                                                              
Health, Department of Health & Social  Services, answered yes.  He                                                              
said he would support Mr. Miller  in everything he said.  Prostate                                                              
cancer is a major problem and the  sooner attention is paid to the                                                              
problem, the better it will be.                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Evans if  the insurance industry supports                                                              
Number 1220                                                                                                                     
GORDON EVANS,  Lobbyist, Health Insurance Association  of America,                                                              
answered yes.                                                                                                                   
Number 1230                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE  made  a  motion  to  move  HB  416  out  of                                                              
committee  with   individual  recommendations   and  indeterminate                                                              
fiscal note.   There  being no  objection, HB  416 moved  from the                                                              
House Health, Education and Social Services Committee.                                                                          
The committee took an at-ease from 3:25 p.m. to 3:26 p.m.                                                                       
HB 329 - INFO AND INFORMED CONSENT FOR ABORTION                                                                               
Number 1263                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN DYSON  announced the  next order  of business  as Sponsor                                                              
Substitute for  House Bill No. 329,  "An Act relating  to services                                                              
and information  available  to pregnant  women and other  persons;                                                              
and  requiring  informed  consent  and a  24-hour  waiting  period                                                              
before  an abortion  may be performed  unless  there is a  medical                                                              
Number 1271                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  JOHN COGHILL,  sponsor,  presented SSHB  329.   He                                                              
explained that  this is a work in  progress, and he went  over the                                                              
sponsor statement, which read:                                                                                                  
     I  have   introduced  SSHB   329  for  the   purpose  of                                                                   
     protecting the health of women.   Sponsor Substitute for                                                                   
     HB  329  requires  Alaska physicians  to  provide  women                                                                   
     seeking  elective  abortions information  regarding  the                                                                   
     potential  physical  and  psychological   risks  of  the                                                                   
     procedures, as well as alternatives to abortion.                                                                           
     The U.S. Supreme Court noted  in H.L. v. Matheson (1981)                                                                 
     that   "the  medical,   emotional,   and   psychological                                                                   
     consequences  of   abortion  are  serious  and   can  be                                                                   
     lasting."  Speaking  to the issue of a  woman's informed                                                                   
     consent,  the  U.S.  Supreme   Court  also  observed  in                                                                   
     Planned  Parenthood v. Danforth  (1976) that a  decision                                                                 
     to  have  an abortion  "is  an  important, and  often  a                                                                   
     stressful one,  and it is desirable and  imperative that                                                                   
     it  be  made  with  full knowledge  of  its  nature  and                                                                   
     Recognizing the  need for women to exercise  an informed                                                                   
     choice  about  an  elective  medical  procedure,  Alaska                                                                   
     regulations   since  the  early   1970s  have   required                                                                   
     physicians  to advise patients  seeking abortion  of the                                                                   
     "medical  implications and  the  possible emotional  and                                                                   
     physical sequelae of the procedures."   (12 AAC 40.070).                                                                   
     However,  Alaska's   informed  consent  provision   lags                                                                   
     behind   other  states   because  it   exists  only   in                                                                   
     regulation   and  not  in  statute.     It   also  lacks                                                                   
     specificity  and  is not  uniform in  its  applications.                                                                   
     More than  twenty-five other states have  laws requiring                                                                   
     informed  consent before  abortions  are performed,  and                                                                   
     detailing  specific  information  that  physicians  must                                                                   
     provide.   States with  the most comprehensive  informed                                                                   
     consent  statutes  include  Indiana,  Kansas,  Kentucky,                                                                   
     Michigan,  Mississippi,  Nebraska, North  Dakota,  Ohio,                                                                   
     Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Utah, and Wisconsin.                                                                           
     Sponsor  Substitute  for HB  329 elevates  the  informed                                                                   
     consent requirement  from regulation to statute,  and it                                                                   
     requires  the Department of  Health and Social  Services                                                                   
     to  develop   a  standard   information  brochure   that                                                                   
     physicians  will  make available  to  women  considering                                                                   
     abortion.   The  brochure  will include  information  on                                                                   
     public  and private  agencies that  provide services  to                                                                   
     assist  pregnant  women,  including  adoption  services.                                                                   
     The  brochure  will include  objective  information  and                                                                   
     photographs depicting  the anatomical and  physiological                                                                   
     characteristics  of a typical  unborn child at  two-week                                                                   
     gestational increments.  In  addition, the brochure will                                                                   
     describe   the  specific  potential   health  risks   of                                                                   
     abortion,   including  infection,   hemorrhage,   breast                                                                   
     cancer,   danger   to   subsequent    pregnancies,   and                                                                   
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  explained that there are  five sections to                                                              
this bill.  Section  1 is a new section that requires  the DHSS to                                                              
develop a  standard information  brochure, which physicians  would                                                              
make available to  women considering abortion, as well  as a toll-                                                              
free 24-hour-a-day  telephone number.   It  also creates  five new                                                              
definitions  for   conception,  fertilization,   gestational  age,                                                              
pregnant and unborn  child.  Section 2 simply takes  Section 1 and                                                              
inserts it into  existing statute under AS 18.16.010(a).   Section                                                              
3 adds a new subsection and provides  for civil liabilities to the                                                              
pregnant  woman  by  a person  who  induces  an  abortion  without                                                              
fulfilling  the new  informed  consent provisions  implemented  in                                                              
Section 4.  Section 4 adds the informed  consent requirements.  It                                                              
sets standards for when consent is  voluntary and informed, and it                                                              
defines  medical emergency.   Section 5  provides severability  to                                                              
the legislation  so that if  something is found  unconstitutional,                                                              
in anticipation of that, it doesn't throw the whole law out.                                                                    
Number 1575                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL pointed out  a drafting  error on  page 4,                                                              
line  7.   He  suggested  an amendment  to  strike  "may" and  add                                                              
CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if there was any objection.                                                                                
Number 1609                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE objected  because he  wondered  if it was  a                                                              
drafting  style.    He  asked  whether   it  was  a  mandatory  or                                                              
permissive "may."                                                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  said he wondered  the same thing.   Rather                                                              
than question  that, he proposed  going ahead and putting  what he                                                              
thought emphatically should be in  there.  That way, if there ever                                                              
is a question,  the author's intent is there.   "Shall" takes away                                                              
the permissiveness of it.                                                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE said there  was no  permissiveness in  it to                                                              
begin with.                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL   said  his  intention  was   to  have  it                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE withdrew his objection.                                                                                    
Number 1674                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN DYSON  asked if  there were any  more objections.   There                                                              
being none, the amendment to strike  "may" and add "shall" on page                                                              
4, line 7, was adopted.                                                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  reviewed   Sections  1  through  5.    He                                                              
indicated that  he was open to  suggestions regarding the  list in                                                              
Section 4, informed  consent requirements.  He shared  a sample of                                                              
a  brochure with  the  committee that  is an  example  of what  he                                                              
suggested in the bill.                                                                                                          
Number 1786                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE referred  to the  part on  page 4, line  31,                                                              
which  talks about  informing  the  pregnant woman  regarding  the                                                              
biological  father's  financial   support  requirement  for  child                                                              
support.   He  asked how  the Child  Support Enforcement  Division                                                              
(CSED) is  doing in terms of  collecting child support.   He said,                                                              
"I think  if we're going  to be sitting  there telling  the mother                                                              
that the  father will be financially  liable, then we also  got to                                                              
be pretty up-front and honest about how well they're doing."                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL  agreed that  CSED does have  its problems.                                                              
He said:                                                                                                                        
     We  have been  assured that  they  are increasing  their                                                                   
     ability to perform.   At this point, my part  is to make                                                                   
     sure  that she  understands  that responsibility.    The                                                                   
         responsibility is a matter of fact of law, and,                                                                        
     therefore, I think it should be part of the discussion.                                                                    
     That was my intent of putting it in there.                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE said  it is  very  specifically telling  the                                                              
mother the issue  is there with child support,  yet he understands                                                              
that CSED  is only "batting  500" in  having all its  cases up-to-                                                              
date.   Something  like $500  million in  arrearage is  owed.   He                                                              
believes  it is  a  bit disingenuous  to  say  there is  financial                                                              
responsibility  out there without  saying, "By  the way,  you only                                                              
have  about  a 50  percent  chance  of collecting  an  appropriate                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL agreed to work on that.                                                                                  
Number 1894                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  KEMPLEN  referred   to  page  2,  line  14,  where                                                              
photographs  of a  typical unborn  child at  two-week periods  are                                                              
being asked to be shown in the brochure.   It is his understanding                                                              
that one  of the reasons  abortions occur  is because  of deformed                                                              
fetuses, and  he wondered  why those type  of photographs  are not                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said he disagreed  about what is viable and                                                              
non-viable.   However, he  believes it would  be best to  show the                                                              
normal range so that there is a starting  place, which may then be                                                              
departed  from.   He  feels  it  would  be  unwise to  show  every                                                              
possible  problem.   However,  it  would be  wise  to discuss  the                                                              
specific  problem in light  of what  normal growth  would be.   It                                                              
gives  the woman  the  best available  information  about what  is                                                              
going on in the womb.                                                                                                           
Number 1966                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE KEMPLEN  said it seems,  based on that  logic, that                                                              
instead of  the word "typical," it  should say "her," so  that the                                                              
mother is able  to visualize exactly what is anticipated  to occur                                                              
to  her particular  fetus.   It is  technologically possible  with                                                              
computer imaging and computer modeling.                                                                                         
REPRESENTATIVE COGHILL said that  information would be helpful but                                                              
wouldn't be practical to put in a brochure at this point.                                                                       
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  asked what other medical procedures  go into                                                              
such depth in  terms of mandating specific notification.   He said                                                              
no  other   medical  procedure   has  this   level  of   statutory                                                              
Number 2028                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE   COGHILL   agreed   with   Representative   Brice.                                                              
Informed  consent happens  throughout  the industry  -  it is  not                                                              
unusual to find  in a medical procedure.  He feels  this one needs                                                              
to be elevated because it is a society  discussion on the value of                                                              
that child inside  a womb.  Getting the best  possible information                                                              
to a woman at  the time she is making a decision  that will impact                                                              
her and an offspring  is very important.  It needs  to be elevated                                                              
to  make sure  that  the best  possible  information -  medically,                                                              
psychologically  and socially  - is  available.   He believes  the                                                              
brochure described in this bill is very appropriate to that.                                                                    
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  said he is glad Representative  Coghill said                                                              
that; he just questions the ability  as a legislative body to make                                                              
that determination better than a doctor's could.                                                                                
Number 2099                                                                                                                     
DR. PETER NAKAMURA,  Director, Central Office, Division  of Public                                                              
Health,  Department  of  Health &  Social  Services  (DHSS),  came                                                              
forward to  testify.   He felt there  was a need  to comment  on a                                                              
number of  issues.  Definitions  will determine very  clearly what                                                              
type of action by  people will be taken related to  this bill.  He                                                              
noted  that  the definition  of  conception  in  the bill  is  not                                                              
correct.    He  explained  that  conception  is  a  very  specific                                                              
process.    First, when  the  ovum  is penetrated  by  sperm,  the                                                              
pronuclei of both  the male and female cell have  to fuse and form                                                              
a blastocyte.  Most  of the ovum that are penetrated  by the sperm                                                              
are rejected  by the body  and lost; very  few actually end  up in                                                              
true  conception.    Conception  starts  when  the  blastocyte  is                                                              
implanted  in the body  and starts  to develop.   That is  evident                                                              
because  the body  begins to  produce some  hormones called  human                                                              
chorionic  gonadotrophin (hGC).    Pregnancy is  started when  the                                                              
urine  test  indicates  hGC  is   present.    This  definition  is                                                              
important  because there  are a lot  of medications  that are  not                                                              
recommended that a pregnant woman  take, so the point of pregnancy                                                              
is very critical.                                                                                                               
DR. NAKAMURA referred to the definition  of the time of pregnancy.                                                              
Pregnancy starts at  the time of conception until  the termination                                                              
of  the pregnancy.    That is  also  critical  because it  impacts                                                              
physicians in  the way of treating a  woman who may or  may not be                                                              
pregnant.   He  noted another  critical definition  is for  unborn                                                              
child.  It  states in this bill  that from the time  of conception                                                              
until the time of delivery is an  unborn child.  This goes against                                                              
medical  definitions which  require definite  precision.   He said                                                              
that was a  fetus, a developing fetus.   An unborn child,  if that                                                              
term is used, is the point at which  it can survive outside of the                                                              
human body;  not at the time  it is a non-viable  fetus--viable in                                                              
the sense of being able to survive outside the body on its own.                                                                 
Number 2265                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said:                                                                                                      
     Isn't that  issue still in a  state of flux,  whether or                                                                   
     not it could survive outside  the womb, that that is the                                                                   
     time  when  it  changes  -  in  your  opinion,  but  I'm                                                                   
     thinking  perhaps in a  legal opinion  - you could  keep                                                                   
     that baby alive, even though  it couldn't survive on its                                                                   
     own.   Does that then change  what you're saying  is the                                                                   
     time when it changes from a fetus to a human?                                                                              
DR. NAKAMURA  replied that  when it is  said it can  survive, he's                                                              
speaking about a  fetus that may not have sensory  organs yet, may                                                              
not even have a  mouth that is open, and may not  have the rest of                                                              
the parts of the body fully developed;  this is still a developing                                                              
fetus.    Once all  the  organs  are  developed  to the  point  of                                                              
survival of that  fetus, then he would assume they  could begin to                                                              
talk about a child.                                                                                                             
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he hadn't  made himself clear.  He asked                                                              
if  it is  possible  to  keep that  child  alive before  it  could                                                              
survive outside the womb.                                                                                                       
Number 2327                                                                                                                     
DR. NAKAMURA said  he didn't know of any possibility  of keeping a                                                              
fully  undeveloped   fetus  alive.     There  may   be  additional                                                              
information that  he is not  aware of, but  he doesn't know  how a                                                              
non-viable fetus would be kept alive outside the body.                                                                          
REPRESENTATIVE   COGHILL  asked  Dr.   Nakamura  to   provide  the                                                              
definitions  in written  form.   He said  this bill  is a work  in                                                              
progress, and he is willing to work on it.                                                                                      
TAPE 00-32, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2360                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE  indicated he had  quite a few  questions for                                                              
Dr. Nakamura  and wanted  to be sure  he would be available  after                                                              
other testimony.                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN DYSON asked  Dr. Nakamura if "fetus" is  Latin for unborn                                                              
DR. NAKAMURA  said he  didn't know.   As a  physician, there  is a                                                              
definite way the term "fetus" is used.                                                                                          
CHAIRMAN DYSON  commented, "Those of  us who do not  want children                                                              
to die only because they are unwanted  are very, very resistant to                                                              
any terminology that you want to use to dehumanize them."                                                                       
Number 2332                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN  DYSON   thought  Representative  Green's   question  was                                                              
because premature  babies have been  kept alive that were  born at                                                              
24 weeks.  He added:                                                                                                            
     I've  heard  evidence  that  some have  survived  at  19                                                                   
     weeks.  I  think Representative Green was  after can we,                                                                   
     with extraordinary  means, keep unborn  children, unborn                                                                   
     fetuses  alive at  something  less than  full term,  and                                                                   
     will that technology improve  in the future to the point                                                                   
     where the  child is  not yet fully  formed, we can  make                                                                   
     them survive.                                                                                                              
Number 2258                                                                                                                     
DR.  NAKAMURA  said when  he  said  viable,  viable means  it  can                                                              
survive outside  of the human body.   If it is not viable,  and it                                                              
can  be a  premature  infant, it  can  be a  very  early point  of                                                              
gestation,  but  viable  means  it can  survive  with  support  or                                                              
intervention, but  it can survive.   There is a point at  which it                                                              
cannot survive.                                                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN  DYSON said  the point  at viability  with assistance  is                                                              
probably a moving target as technology improves.                                                                                
DR. NAKAMURA encouraged  the committee to have  the willingness to                                                              
listen if the  terms are challenged.  He stated  that there needed                                                              
to be medical use for the terminology.                                                                                          
Number 2216                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL shared the  legal definition  from Black's                                                            
Law Dictionary:                                                                                                               
     Conception.   The beginning of  pregnancy.  As  to human                                                                   
     beings, the fecundation  of the female ovum  by the male                                                                   
         spermatozoon resulting in human life capable of                                                                        
     survival and maturation under normal conditions.                                                                           
He asked  Dr. Nakamura  for a medical  definition to  compare with                                                              
DR.  NAKAMURA  agreed  to get  Representative  Coghill  a  medical                                                              
definition   from   the   obstetricians   who   have   made   this                                                              
determination.   The reason for  this determination is  because it                                                              
dictates treatment.  Certain medications  should not be given to a                                                              
pregnant woman.                                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL  said  he  has  to  deal  with  the  legal                                                              
definition.   But for  treatment,  doctors have  to deal with  the                                                              
medical  definition.   He  is  trying  to  get the  best  possible                                                              
information  to  a  woman  who is  about  to  make  some  profound                                                              
decisions in  her life:  Should she  choose to get an  abortion or                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL said  the legal  definition for fetus  is:                                                              
"An  unborn  child.   The  unborn  offspring  of  any  viviparious                                                              
animal; specifically  the unborn  offspring in the  post embryonic                                                              
period after major structures have been outlined."                                                                              
Number 2134                                                                                                                     
DR. NAKAMURA noted that informed  consent is good practice, and it                                                              
is already required  before any surgical procedure;  whether it is                                                              
written in regulation or law, it  is required.  He can't imagine a                                                              
practitioner  proceeding with  any  surgical intervention  without                                                              
informed consent.   However, there is informed  consent, and there                                                              
is  informed  biased  consent  or biased  counseling.    When  the                                                              
information is provided that will  be informed consent, it is very                                                              
important that the  full spectrum of information be  provided.  If                                                              
presenting  the information  of the  complexities  of a  pregnancy                                                              
termination  is going  to  be required,  whether  it  be death  or                                                              
disability or whatever, it is very  important that the information                                                              
also  be  presented  so  the  patient   can  understand  what  the                                                              
complexities  are of carrying  the pregnancy to  term.   He added,                                                              
"You can't  just give  half of  the information  and not  give the                                                              
other half of  the information or that becomes  biased information                                                              
and prejudices the informed consent."                                                                                           
DR. NAKAMURA continued that women  who are pregnant can be offered                                                              
the opportunity  to read  pamphlets and  view pictures  related to                                                              
pregnancy but should  not be required to do so.   A requirement to                                                              
do so  can be especially  cruel and traumatic  to a woman  who may                                                              
actually  desire to  have  that child  and  desire  to carry  that                                                              
pregnancy but is  unable to do that because of a  medical or other                                                              
DR. NAKAMURA went on to say that  no mention is made of historical                                                              
alternatives  to  legal  abortions  are  illegal  abortions.    An                                                              
illegal abortion is  not recommended as an alternative,  but it is                                                              
one.   A woman  may choose not  to be pregnant  and may  decide to                                                              
seek   an  illegal   abortion  rather   than   a  safe,   surgical                                                              
CHAIRMAN  DYSON asked  Dr. Nakamura  if he  was recommending  that                                                              
women also  be informed  about illegal  abortions and the  dangers                                                              
Number 2011                                                                                                                     
DR. NAKAMURA answered  yes.  But to provide that  information will                                                              
then allow a  patient to really make a fully  informed decision in                                                              
terms  of  what  she will  do.    Very  often if  a  procedure  is                                                              
discouraged   with  limited   information,  women   may  seek   an                                                              
alternative  way  to  terminate  the condition  which  may  be  an                                                              
illegal abortion.                                                                                                               
CHAIRMAN  DYSON asked  Dr.  Nakamura if  there  are other  illegal                                                              
things he would want them to be informed about.                                                                                 
DR. NAKAMURA said that is the one  that came to mind because often                                                              
a patient will seek  that if she is discouraged or  not allowed to                                                              
seek a surgical intervention, which  very definitely is the safest                                                              
way, related  to an  illegal procedure.   He suggested  portraying                                                              
the bad alternatives as well as those covered in this issue.                                                                    
Number 1931                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  COGHILL restated  that this bill  is to  make sure                                                              
that  someone  seeking  an  abortion  gets  the  best  information                                                              
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN  said they are not saying  that the physician                                                              
can't perform the abortion; he/she  just needs to inform the woman                                                              
before doing so.                                                                                                                
DR. NAKAMURA responded:                                                                                                         
     Just  as  you  should be  informed  of  the  alternative                                                                   
     consequences  of a surgical  procedure, you should  also                                                                   
     be  informed  of the  consequences  of not  having  that                                                                   
      procedure or having an alternative form of therapy or                                                                     
     treatment.  That is all I am saying.                                                                                       
Number 1855                                                                                                                     
DR. NAKAMURA  noted that fulfilling  the requirements of  SSHB 329                                                              
will require some fiscal and human  resources; that was alluded to                                                              
in  the fiscal  note.    He concluded  with  a concern  raised  by                                                              
medical  professionals  that  legislating  medical practice  is  a                                                              
rather dangerous process.                                                                                                       
CHAIRMAN  DYSON asked Dr.  Nakamura if  it was  wise or  unwise to                                                              
include an  amendment to  inform the woman  of what would  be done                                                              
with the remains  of the unborn child or fetus or  to let her know                                                              
her options if she wished for some type of funeral service.                                                                     
Number 1733                                                                                                                     
DR. NAKAMURA said he wished there  were a simple answer.  Everyone                                                              
responds  so  differently, and  he  can't  really respond  to  the                                                              
Number 1652                                                                                                                     
REBECCA HOWE testified  via teleconference from Sitka.   She spoke                                                              
against HB 329 which she believes  is a biased consent bill.  This                                                              
bill is not  to help women in  any shape or form who  are making a                                                              
very difficult decision.   Instead it creates shame  for women and                                                              
infringes on their  rights.  Already women give  consent, are told                                                              
all the  consequences of any surgical  procedure and know  what to                                                              
expect.   This bill  is anti-choice  legislation.   She urged  the                                                              
committee to not let it go any further.                                                                                         
Number 1601                                                                                                                     
SANDY  DORAN  testified  via teleconference  from  the  Matanuska-                                                              
Susitna  (Mat-Su)  Legislative  Information  Office  (LIO).    She                                                              
expressed support  for HB 329.  She  had an abortion 17  years ago                                                              
and had  something like  this been available,  she would  not have                                                              
had one.   It is important  that women know this  information; the                                                              
doctors  do not  share anything  like this.   When  someone is  in                                                              
crisis, she  doesn't always  think properly.   She commented  that                                                              
abortion  is a life-changing  experience  and will affect  someone                                                              
forever.  A lot  of women don't see that; they see  it as a "hurry                                                              
up  and the  problem is  fixed."   There are  many emotional  side                                                              
effects.  She urged the committee to support HB 329.                                                                            
Number 1534                                                                                                                     
EILEEN BECKER, Director, Homer Crisis  Pregnancy Center, testified                                                              
via teleconference from Homer.  She  indicated that HB 329 is long                                                              
overdue.  Women  in crisis are unable to make  a rational decision                                                              
at the  time.  She  deals with women  in this situation,  and they                                                              
are  desperate and  feel  like they  have  no other  alternatives.                                                              
With the  24-hour waiting period, it  gives them a chance  to seek                                                              
other options.   She has  never met a  women who wasn't  sorry for                                                              
the  decision  she made.    Informed  decision that  requires  the                                                              
doctor's name  is important.   It is time  to allow women  to know                                                              
all the facts and all the ramifications,  good, bad and otherwise.                                                              
The main thing she has heard from  women who have had abortions is                                                              
"I never  knew, I never  knew how this was  going to affect  me, I                                                              
never knew how I would feel."                                                                                                   
Number 1412                                                                                                                     
ALEATHA MARTIN  testified via teleconference from  Fairbanks.  She                                                              
is  a family  nurse  practitioner.   She  worked  in the  neonatal                                                              
pediatric  intensive care  unit (NICU),  adult intensive  care and                                                              
holds  a Master  of  Science degree  in  Nursing  and worked  with                                                              
Community  Health  Aid Program  as  an  instructor.   She  had  an                                                              
abortion over  15 years  for an unplanned  pregnancy.   She needed                                                              
help  but did  not  know where  to  get it.   She  had  read in  a                                                              
psychology  book that there  were no  lasting effects to  abortion                                                              
(15 years  ago); however,  that is  untrue.   Nobody told  her how                                                              
painful  the   actual  procedure   would  be.     She  experienced                                                              
complications following  the procedure  that resulted in  a period                                                              
of unconsciousness and a very long  recovery period.  Years later,                                                              
when  she and  her  husband  wanted to  start  a family,  she  had                                                              
difficulty carrying  a baby to term  due to cervical damage.   She                                                              
has lost four  babies.  She nearly lost her  son through premature                                                              
labor at 23  weeks, and they both  nearly lost their lives  due to                                                              
an experimental drug used.                                                                                                      
MS.  MARTIN said  when  she worked  in  a hospital,  she  observed                                                              
physicians describing procedures  that patients were to undergo so                                                              
it was clear to the patient what  the risks and side effects were.                                                              
Giving the  knowledge of  the entire  procedures should  be common                                                              
practice.  She expressed  support of HB 329.  The  fact is "it was                                                              
my baby;  I have emotional  and psychological  trauma that  I deal                                                              
with the rest of  my life.  And I have the  medical experience and                                                              
expertise from  NICU to recognize  that this baby has  fingers and                                                              
toes and a heartbeat very early on."                                                                                            
Number 1227                                                                                                                     
REXANN BASSLER  testified via teleconference from  Anchorage.  She                                                              
is  a counselor  at  a  crisis  pregnancy  center.   She  recently                                                              
counseled a 16-year  old girl seeking an abortion  who decided not                                                              
to get  an abortion  when she  was presented  with all the  facts.                                                              
Ms. Bassler  firmly believes that  being presented with  the facts                                                              
helped  this girl  make  an informed  and  humane  decision.   She                                                              
believes  the  24-hour  waiting period  is  important  because  it                                                              
allows  women  in  crisis situations  time  to  contemplate  their                                                              
decision after they have been presented  with the medical brochure                                                              
explaining the abortion procedure.                                                                                              
MS. BASSLER  shared another story about  a young man who  had paid                                                              
for more than  one abortion for his  girlfriends.  After  he saw a                                                              
sonogram, "it changed everything."   He was clearly suffering from                                                              
post-abortion syndrome.   She submitted that abortion  is not just                                                              
about  women  and babies;  there  are  emotional side  effects  to                                                              
abortion  and   had  the  realities  of  fetal   development  been                                                              
presented  to this  young man,  perhaps  he would  have been  more                                                              
responsible  in his  lifestyle  choices and  in  his decisions  to                                                              
pressure his girlfriends to get abortions.                                                                                      
Number 1056                                                                                                                     
KAREN  VOSBURGH,   Executive  Director,  Alaska  Right   to  Life,                                                              
testified via  teleconference from the  Mat-Su LIO.   She informed                                                              
the  committee that  when a  woman is  considering abortion,  very                                                              
little factual  information is given,  and what is given  is often                                                              
false.   Pre-born babies are  sometimes referred to  as "pregnancy                                                              
tissue,"  "not alive  yet," "just  a bunch  of cells,"  or only  a                                                              
"glob."   These descriptions are  given at a stage  of development                                                              
when  the baby  already  feels pain,  sucks  its thumb  and has  a                                                              
heartbeat.   The United  States does not  have information  in the                                                              
zone  of   privacy  by   federal  court   ruling  because   it  is                                                              
MS.  VOSBURGH  shared  some  abortion   statistics  from  European                                                              
nations   with  socialized   medicine.     There   are  over   100                                                              
complications associated  with abortion.  Some can  be immediately                                                              
spotted  such  as  a  puncture to  the  uterus  or  other  organs,                                                              
convulsions or  even cardiac arrest.   Other complications  reveal                                                              
themselves within  two days such  as a slow hemorrhage,  pulmonary                                                              
embolism,  infection or  fever.   Records at a  hospital in  Great                                                              
Britain revealed a  27 percent infection rate among  women who had                                                              
abortions, and 9.5  percent hemorrhaged enough to  require a blood                                                              
transfusion.   Long-term complications usually result  from damage                                                              
to the  reproductive system and  can result in  chronic infections                                                              
or  inability to  carry a  subsequent  pregnancy to  term or  even                                                              
sterility.   According  to one  Japanese  study, women  undergoing                                                              
abortions  have experienced  the  following  complications:   nine                                                              
were subsequently  sterile; 14  percent suffered from  reoccurring                                                              
miscarriages;  and there  was a  400 percent  increase in  ectopic                                                              
pregnancy.  Recent  studies indicate instances of  total sterility                                                              
following 4 to 5 percent of all abortions.   She reported that the                                                              
suicide rate among  women who had abortions is  phenomenally high.                                                              
According to  one study,  women who had  abortions are  nine times                                                              
more likely to attempt suicide.   She also noted the breast cancer                                                              
connection with abortion.                                                                                                       
Number 0803                                                                                                                     
HEIDI LIVENGOOD testified via teleconference  from Fairbanks.  She                                                              
is a 19-year  old student at  the University of  Alaska Fairbanks.                                                              
She stated that  HB 329 is a very important step  in improving the                                                              
medical  care and  education of  women in  Alaska about  abortion.                                                              
Abortion is a  very popular and serious issue  facing many people.                                                              
The need to understand  all the risks and complications  of such a                                                              
procedure is essential.  Serious  complications and risks after an                                                              
abortion   are   pelvic   and   inflammatory    disease,   uterine                                                              
perforations, possible  increased risk  of breast cancer and  a 30                                                              
percent  risk  of  ectopic pregnancy  after  the  first  abortion.                                                              
After  two  or three  abortions,  the  rate of  ectopic  pregnancy                                                              
increases  to 160  percent.   If  women are  informed about  these                                                              
risks,  then  they may  choose  to  give  their child  to  another                                                              
family.   It is  wise to give  the mother  as much information  as                                                              
possible before  she chooses  to terminate the  life of  her child                                                              
before it is  born.  There is no reason why  important information                                                              
should be withheld from anyone that is considering abortion.                                                                    
Number 0699                                                                                                                     
ROZ JENKINS, Chairperson, Advisory  Council, Planned Parenthood of                                                              
Alaska,  Sitka clinic,  testified via  teleconference from  Sitka.                                                              
She  pointed out  that this  bill places  an undue  burden on  the                                                              
women of  Alaska.   Women in  Southeast Alaska  have to  travel to                                                              
Anchorage or other  places to receive an abortion  which adds more                                                              
burden and  financial cost.   She referred  to a particular  study                                                              
that shows after  enactment of this law, the proportion  of second                                                              
trimester procedures  increase by 53 percent.   She has  a copy of                                                              
that  study if  anyone  is interested.    No woman  lightly  takes                                                              
having an  abortion without  serious thought  to the  consequences                                                              
and her options.                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN DYSON  asked Ms. Jenkins  how would giving the  woman the                                                              
information increase the cost except for the 24-hour delay.                                                                     
MS. JENKINS answered that it is the  24-hour delay which increases                                                              
the cost.                                                                                                                       
Number 0584                                                                                                                     
DR. NELSON ISADA testified via teleconference  from Anchorage.  He                                                              
is a perinatalogist, which is maternal  fetal medicine.  He is one                                                              
of two  perinatalogists  in Alaska  and sees many  folks from  all                                                              
over the state.  He expressed some  concerns about HB 329.  He has                                                              
several  concerns  regarding  the  number  of  abortions  and  the                                                              
psychological impact, but he is the  one who has to see women at 2                                                              
a.m.  or 4  a.m. when  they come  in from  Fairbanks with  ectopic                                                              
pregnancy and placenta previa bleeding.   Sometimes these occur in                                                              
a previable time.   What is or what isn't a  medical emergency can                                                              
be argued and often is in the eyes of the beholder.                                                                             
DR. ISADA  said he is not  terribly interested, when he  is seeing                                                              
the  daughters, wives  and  girlfriends, in  whipping  out a  flip                                                              
chart at 2 o'clock  in the morning.  Showing a  woman the pictures                                                              
of how the fetus  looks at every two weeks - when  she is possibly                                                              
bleeding to death  - is not an option if he is  trying to save her                                                              
life.  If  there is an abnormal  fetus detected on  an ultrasound,                                                              
he and  his partner have  to see these folks.   He noted  that the                                                              
pictures are misleading.  He does  do informed consent and has for                                                              
the  past 22  years.   He is  the  only quadruply  board-certified                                                              
physician  on  the  planet;  he is  "boarded"  in  maternal  fetal                                                              
medicine,  OB/GYN [obstetrics/gynecology],  internal medicine  and                                                              
medical genetics.   That  is why he  sees a lot  of folks  in this                                                              
terribly  tragic situation.    He understands  the  intent of  the                                                              
bill, but he doesn't need this.                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE BRICE said it has  been alluded to that there is no                                                              
type of counseling  or discussion with patients  about the impacts                                                              
of abortion  services  and procedures.   He asked  Dr. Isada  what                                                              
procedures he goes through in discussing the implications.                                                                      
DR. ISADA  said he  spends hours  going through informed  consent.                                                              
He tells  women up-front  they could  die, they  could lose  their                                                              
uterus, they  could be depressed  or suicidal afterwards;  if they                                                              
are  ambivalent  about  it, don't  even  think  about  it.   As  a                                                              
geneticist he  is bound to do  nondirective counseling.   He can't                                                              
tell a woman  either way; it is  her decision.  His job  is to let                                                              
people know it is medically possible.                                                                                           
Number 0210                                                                                                                     
REPRESENTATIVE  BRICE  asked  about the  psychological  impact  to                                                              
women who are facing an instance  where the child will not be born                                                              
alive and are  made to go through the whole  procedure outlined in                                                              
HB 329.                                                                                                                         
DR. ISADA  answered it is  very cruel.   He understands  the women                                                              
who have had horrible abortion experiences  but he doesn't want to                                                              
add to  the woman  in front  of him  who is  carrying a baby  with                                                              
defects for  example and making her  sit through the  flip charts.                                                              
He will have to her, "It's required by HB 329."                                                                                 
CHAIRMAN  DYSON  understands  that HB  329  has  only to  do  with                                                              
elective  abortions;  nothing  to  do with  abortions  of  medical                                                              
DR. ISADA  said he doesn't  want to threaten  anyone; he  wants to                                                              
help get  women through this procedure  alive.  He would  be happy                                                              
to work with anyone on this bill.                                                                                               
TAPE 00-33, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN  DYSON agreed  he is  interested in  keeping everyone  as                                                              
healthy as possible and making the  best decisions.  He wished all                                                              
the  practitioners were  as  ethical and  concerned  as Dr.  Isada                                                              
appeared to be.                                                                                                                 
REPRESENTATIVE  KEMPLEN  asked  Dr.   Isada  if  the  requirements                                                              
outlined in HB 329 constitute directive counseling.                                                                             
DR. ISADA said yes.   He said there are other  ways to provide the                                                              
information.   Things could  be improved, but  he doesn't  know if                                                              
this is the best way to do it.                                                                                                  
Number 0187                                                                                                                     
KARL  ASHENBRENNER, Juneau  Pro-Choice  Coalition, Member,  Alaska                                                              
Pro-Choice, came forward to testify  in opposition to HB 329.  The                                                              
Juneau  Pro-Choice   Coalition  is   an  organization   which  has                                                              
identified more than 5,000 pro-choice  voters in House Districts 3                                                              
and 4.   Juneau Pro-Choice  is a member  of the Alaska  Pro-Choice                                                              
Alliance. He read the following testimony:                                                                                      
     Our organization's  first comment  on HB 329 is  that it                                                                   
     shows  a profound  and  unnecessary distrust  in  Alaska                                                                   
     women  and  their doctors.    We believe  strongly  that                                                                   
     government  should refrain from  interfering in  private                                                                   
     medical decisions  and let women make such  decisions in                                                                   
     the  privacy  of their  doctors'  offices.   Bills  that                                                                   
     mandate  24-hour waiting periods  and biased  counseling                                                                   
     are  strongly  advocated  by   anti-abortion  extremists                                                                   
     because their agenda is to stop  all abortions by making                                                                   
     them difficult and/or impossible to get.                                                                                   
     It is common knowledge in the  pro-choice community that                                                                   
     waiting  periods  like the  one  proposed in  this  bill                                                                   
     force women  to confront shouting protestors  twice.  At                                                                   
     the  door   of  abortion  clinics  protestors   use  the                                                                   
     opportunity  to   collect  license  plate   numbers  and                                                                   
     identify patients.   In the  intervening 24  hours, they                                                                   
     harass  patients  at  home and  try  to  interfere  with                                                                   
     whatever  plans or  decisions they  are trying to  make.                                                                   
     All sense of privacy is lost for the patient.                                                                              
     A 24-hour waiting period is  especially restrictive in a                                                                   
     state  like Alaska where  women in  virtually all  but a                                                                   
     few communities  are forced  to travel great  distances,                                                                   
     such as  to Anchorage, Seattle  or elsewhere,  to obtain                                                                   
     an abortion.  Women who live  in communities where there                                                                   
     is no abortion  provider such as Juneau,  Fairbanks, and                                                                   
     virtually  all bush villages,  must travel to  Anchorage                                                                   
     or  Seattle.   The 24-hour  waiting period  adds to  the                                                                   
     length of the  expense and the expense of  the trip with                                                                   
     extra  hotel, food and  child care  costs and no  doubt,                                                                   
     lots of extra  stress.  It is quite common  that 24-hour                                                                   
     waiting  periods really  turn out to  be longer  because                                                                   
     not all clinics provide daily  services.  Such waits can                                                                   
     force  women  to  delay an  abortion  until  the  second                                                                   
     trimester  of  a pregnancy,  which  doctors  claim  will                                                                   
     increase   the  risk   of  medical   complications   and                                                                   
     therefore the cost.                                                                                                        
     Juneau  Pro-Choice Coalition  also  strongly objects  to                                                                   
     the provisions  of this bill  which attempt to  bias the                                                                   
     counseling  of women  in order  to talk them  out of  an                                                                   
     abortion.   First,  Alaska regulations  already  require                                                                   
     that  doctors provide  patients  with information  about                                                                   
     the  possible   consequences  of   an  abortion.     The                                                                   
     additional   requirements   for  counseling   that   are                                                                   
     included in  this bill are  unnecessary and in  the case                                                                   
     of rape and incest victims, absolutely outrageous.                                                                         
     The  requirements to  provide information  in photos  of                                                                   
     the physiological  characteristics of the  fetus reminds                                                                   
     our group  of the  Right to Life  exhibits at the  state                                                                   
     fair.   They ignore the  legal issue of fetal  viability                                                                   
     and  instead  to play  with  the  emotions of  women  by                                                                   
     confronting them  with the pictures of  fetuses, forcing                                                                   
     rape and incest  victims to endure this  is particularly                                                                   
     insensitive and outrageous.                                                                                                
     Also the  information required concerning  child support                                                                   
     is biased.   It  would leave  out information that  more                                                                   
     than $570  million are overdue  child support.   They're                                                                   
     owed to Alaskan families.  More  than half of the 37,000                                                                   
     child  support   cases  are  in  arrears   according  to                                                                   
     statistics from our own Department  of Revenue, and this                                                                   
     would not be included.                                                                                                     
     We encourage  the committee to  stop this bill;  the 24-                                                                   
     hour waiting  period is a ploy to assist  protestors and                                                                   
     invading a  woman's right to privacy, and  counseling is                                                                   
     biased.   The  legislature needs  to  be addressing  the                                                                   
     real problems  of Alaska  such as our  lack of a  fiscal                                                                   
     plan  and the  plight  of abused  children.   This  bill                                                                   
     tries to create answers for  problems that do not exist.                                                                   
Number 0508                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Ashenbrenner if he thought department                                                                  
should repeal the current regulations on informed consent.                                                                      
MR. ASHENBRENNER said he believes the existing regulations on                                                                   
informed consent are more than adequate.                                                                                        
CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Mr. Ashenbrenner if his organization would                                                                 
have any objection to this bill if it just had the things that                                                                  
are in the regulations.                                                                                                         
MR. ASHENBRENNER answered no.                                                                                                   
Number 0592                                                                                                                     
DEBBIE JOSLIN came forward to testify and read the following                                                                    
     My husband Steven and I live  in Delta Junction with our                                                                   
     three children:   Matthew, Emily  and Victoria.   Steven                                                                   
     is  the  resource  forester   in  our  area.    I  am  a                                                                   
     homeschooling  mom.   I  teach  third and  fourth  grade                                                                   
     Sunday School at our church.                                                                                               
     On January  15, 1999,  I was 22  weeks pregnant  when we                                                                   
     drove 100  miles to Fairbanks  for an ultrasound  on our                                                                   
     child.  After  a lengthy examination of the  baby, I was                                                                   
     told  we  were  expecting a  male  child  with  multiple                                                                   
     anomalies.   The baby we named  Isaiah John had  a brain                                                                   
     cyst,   a  missing   or   unconnected   stomach  and   a                                                                   
     hypoplastic left heart.                                                                                                    
     We  were   given  the  name   of  a  perinatologist   in                                                                   
     Anchorage.  A  perinatologist, as I understand  it, is a                                                                   
     doctor  who  specializes  in   unborn  babies  who  have                                                                   
     serious   health  complications.     I  spoke   to  this                                                                   
     specialist  over the phone and  made arrangements  to go                                                                   
     to Anchorage  and have another ultrasound.   During that                                                                   
     phone conversation  she urged  me to have the  pregnancy                                                                   
     terminated without  even examining me.  The  reasons she                                                                   
     listed  were that  the baby would  probably die  anyway,                                                                   
     the medical expenses would be  too great and that my own                                                                   
     life was  probably in  danger.  Keep  in mind, I  hadn't                                                                   
     been  examined at  this point.   I  made an  appointment                                                                   
     with this  doctor because  I had been  told she  was the                                                                   
     only perinatologist  in the state; now I  find out there                                                                   
     are two.                                                                                                                   
     My  husband   and  I  drove  350  miles   to  keep  that                                                                   
     appointment,  leaving Delta at 40  below zero.   When we                                                                   
     arrived  for our  appointment,  we first  saw a  genetic                                                                   
     counselor who went over some  family history with us and                                                                   
     explained that they thought  Isaiah probably had Trisomy                                                                   
     18,  a  chromosomal  abnormality  (an  extra  number  18                                                                   
     chromosome).  ... She  expressed surprise  that we  were                                                                   
     not  considering  terminating  the pregnancy  and  asked                                                                   
     several times whether we wanted  to consider terminating                                                                   
     the pregnancy.                                                                                                             
     Another  ultrasound was performed  by a technician,  and                                                                   
     then the  perinatologist took  over the exam  and listed                                                                   
     the  following  anomalies:     brain  cyst,  missing  or                                                                   
     unconnected  stomach, hypoplastic  left heart, eyes  not                                                                   
     properly  spaced, underdeveloped  chin, something  wrong                                                                   
     with  spinal  development,   something  wrong  with  his                                                                   
     penis,  rocker-bottom feet,  possibly an  extra toe  and                                                                   
     fluid in the  abdominal cavity and lungs.   We were told                                                                   
     the  fluid   indicated  that   Isaiah  was  already   in                                                                   
     congestive  heart failure and  that he would  never make                                                                   
     it to his due date in May.                                                                                                 
     The  perinatologist  told  us that  Isaiah  would  never                                                                   
     respond to us if he were to  live; we were told that all                                                                   
     Trisomy  infants were severely  mentally retarded.   She                                                                   
     described  a somewhat  vegetative  state  but said  that                                                                   
     more probably he  would be stillborn any day.   She said                                                                   
     that if  he were to  be born alive,  he would  only live                                                                   
     for  a few minutes.   Later  they adjusted  it to a  few                                                                   
     hours,  and then  later yet  they  said maybe  a day  at                                                                   
     most,  and then  finally, much  later  the doctors  were                                                                   
     saying a few  days.  We agreed to an  amniocentesis that                                                                   
     day  to  determine  whether  Isaiah  did  actually  have                                                                   
     Trisomy  18.  Our  hope was  that he  would not, and  we                                                                   
     could begin then  to make plans for heart  surgery.  She                                                                   
     told  us doctors  will not  operate  on Trisomy  infants                                                                   
     since they ALL die in infancy anyway.                                                                                      
     You can  imagine what  heavy hearts we  had as we  drove                                                                   
     back to  Delta.  The plans and  dreams I had had  for my                                                                   
     son were  shelved as we  instead discussed his  funeral.                                                                   
     Within  a  few days,  I  got  a call  from  the  genetic                                                                   
     counselor  with  the  preliminary   test  results  which                                                                   
     showed  Isaiah  had  Trisomy  13.    I  asked  how  that                                                                   
     differed  from Trisomy 18,  and she  said it was  worse.                                                                   
     She asked again about termination,  and I told her again                                                                   
     that we were not interested in that.                                                                                       
     Almost  immediately  I got  a  call  from my  doctor  in                                                                   
     Fairbanks, who  asked me about termination.   I told her                                                                   
     again that  I was not interested  in that.  She  told me                                                                   
     that since  my life was in  danger ... and I  had chosen                                                                   
     to continue with  the pregnancy, she could  no longer be                                                                   
     my  doctor as  she was  a general  practitioner and  not                                                                   
     qualified  to handle such  a case.   I began seeing  the                                                                   
     osteopath doctor  in Delta and  an OB/GYN in  Fairbanks.                                                                   
     I told  them what  I had  been told  about the baby  and                                                                   
     about  my own  health.   The  OB/GYN doctor  told me  he                                                                   
     could not understand why I had  been told my life was in                                                                   
     danger.   He  treated  me during  the  remainder of  the                                                                   
     pregnancy,  and   I  never  had  any   complications  or                                                                   
     problems--only  the  usual   complaints  pregnant  women                                                                   
     suffer from.                                                                                                               
     A couple  of weeks  after the  preliminary results,  the                                                                   
     genetic  counselor called  with the  final results  from                                                                   
     Isaiah's  amniocentesis.     It  was  final--Isaiah  had                                                                   
     Trisomy 13.   She asked me again about  termination, and                                                                   
     I told her no again.  I then  asked her out of curiosity                                                                   
     what  she would  do if  I did  say  yes.   She got  very                                                                   
     excited and  told me that  "there is the most  wonderful                                                                   
     clinic in  Kansas."  I asked  if she meant  Dr. Tiller's                                                                   
     clinic and  she said, "Yes, do  you know him?"   "No," I                                                                   
     told her, "but  I know about him."  She  offered to have                                                                   
     other  women  who  had  had abortions  call  me,  but  I                                                                   
     Sensing  that  I was  not  interested in  pursuing  this                                                                   
     further,  she told me  in a  very apologetic voice  that                                                                   
     there  is a parent  support group,  but well...they  are                                                                   
     rather positive.   She made it sound as  though positive                                                                   
     was a  bad thing  to be.   She then went  on to  tell me                                                                   
     that  she had information  on this  group, including  an                                                                   
     800 number as well as pamphlets  and books in her office                                                                   
     that gave detailed information  about Trisomy 18, 13 and                                                                   
     other disorders including pictures.                                                                                        
     I called S.O.F.T. (Support Organization  for Trisomy 18,                                                                   
     13  and Related  Disorders)  right away  and found  that                                                                   
     they were  indeed positive, but  realistic.  I  told the                                                                   
     woman over  the phone about Isaiah's diagnosis,  and she                                                                   
     told me that  probably they were right, but  there was a                                                                   
     chance  he could  live.   She  talked  to  me about  the                                                                   
     parents and  I remember asking  her, "Parents,  you mean                                                                   
     they have  live children?"   "Yes, some did,"  she said.                                                                   
     "How old?"  I was told that  they varied, but there were                                                                   
     a few children  who were teenagers and even  a couple of                                                                   
     adults.  The  lady took my name and address  and told me                                                                   
     she would send  me a family packet right a way.   I also                                                                   
     requested the  books they had available:   Trisomy 13, a                                                                 
     Guideline for Families and Care  of the Infant and Child                                                               
     with  Trisomy  18 or  13.    These  were the  books  the                                                                 
     genetic counselor  had described, the very  ones she had                                                                   
     in   her   office.      While    the   information   was                                                                   
     heartbreaking, it also offered  some hope and some help.                                                                   
     Those were two  things we hadn't had much of.   Not only                                                                   
     did some of these children live,  they played and smiled                                                                   
     and  laughed and talked  and learned  things and  showed                                                                   
     affection and responded to love and affection.                                                                             
     We  located a  wonderful pediatrician  in Fairbanks  who                                                                   
     agreed that Isaiah's chances  were not good, but she was                                                                   
     willing to do  what she could to help him.   We made the                                                                   
     decision to hire her and made  plans to deliver our baby                                                                   
     in Fairbanks.  On May 19, 1999,  only 11 days before his                                                                   
     due  date,  Isaiah John  Joslin  was born  at  Fairbanks                                                                   
     Memorial  Hospital.  He  weighed 6  pounds, l ounce  and                                                                   
     was 18 1/4  inches long.  Isaiah was a  pretty baby with                                                                   
     lots  of  bright  red  hair.     Isaiah  had  difficulty                                                                   
     breathing  when  first  born,  but as  the  doctors  and                                                                   
     nurses checked him over, they  could find no sign of the                                                                   
     problems  seen earlier on  three different  ultrasounds.                                                                   
     The  brain cyst,  the  stomach problem  and  hypoplastic                                                                   
     heart  were  all  missing  as  were  all  of  the  other                                                                   
     problems  earlier  noted.   No rocker-bottom  feet;  his                                                                   
     eyes  were  fine; there  was  no  extra toe.    However,                                                                   
     Isaiah suffered  from a ventricular septal  defect (VSD)                                                                   
     - a hole in his heart.  Although  very serious, it was a                                                                   
     far cry  from the problems he  had had earlier.   Isaiah                                                                   
     required oxygen  and a nasal  gastric tube for  feeding.                                                                   
     Because of  the hole  in his heart,  he was too  weak to                                                                   
     nurse and had  to be fed with a tube.   Isaiah looked so                                                                   
     normal  that even  the nursing  staff  agreed we  should                                                                   
     retest him.   Test results  again showed Isaiah  to have                                                                   
     Trisomy 13.   He stayed in the hospital for  12 days and                                                                   
     then  came home  where  we cared  for  him  for 20  days                                                                   
     before he left  us to go to be with the  Lord in heaven.                                                                   
     Those were some of the hardest  but the sweetest days of                                                                   
     my life.                                                                                                                   
     I am telling you this story  so you can understand why I                                                                   
     stand before you today and ask that you pass HB 329.                                                                       
     After talking  to other doctors  and doing a  great deal                                                                   
     of research on my own and reading  about Trisomy infants                                                                   
     and because of my own personal  experience, I believe my                                                                   
     life was  never in any danger.   Yet, this  undue burden                                                                   
     was placed on me at a time when  I already had plenty to                                                                   
     worry  about.   I  believe  this  was  done to  try  and                                                                   
     convince me to have the abortion.                                                                                          
     I was  told that ALL  Trisomy infants  die.  I  now know                                                                   
     that somewhere between 90 and  95 percent of all Trisomy                                                                   
     infants die before one year  of age.  That doesn't leave                                                                   
     much  room  for  hope,  I  realize,   but  it  is  quite                                                                   
     different than saying they ALL die.                                                                                        
     I  was   not  told  about   the  parent  support   group                                                                   
     (S.O.F.T.)  for  over  two weeks,  not  until  they  had                                                                   
     finally given up on talking  me into an abortion.  Well,                                                                   
     you may  say they were not  sure your child  had Trisomy                                                                   
     until  the final  results were  in.   Perhaps, but  they                                                                   
     were  sure  enough  that  they  continually  brought  up                                                                   
     termination.   I drove 350 miles  to see the  doctor and                                                                   
     was  never  shown  the written  information  about  this                                                                   
     disorder that they had right there.                                                                                        
     Though  they  were careful  to  tell me  every  negative                                                                   
     thing they  could about  the baby, I  was never  told of                                                                   
     any  of the  risks of  having  an abortion.   There  was                                                                   
     never any mention made of the  risk to my health, either                                                                   
     physical or emotional from having the abortion.                                                                            
     I  believe   the  doctors  who  repeatedly   brought  up                                                                   
     termination probably  meant well.  The problem  comes in                                                                   
     where they  apparently believed that their  professional                                                                   
     status,  or  their  medical  degrees placed  them  in  a                                                                   
     position to  know better than  me what was best  for me,                                                                   
     my family and my baby.  That simply is not true.                                                                           
     Giving life  to Isaiah  was hard on  our family;  but it                                                                   
     wasn't TOO  hard.  It was  expensive; but it  wasn't TOO                                                                   
     expensive.   It was hard on  the other children;  but it                                                                   
     wasn't TOO hard  on the other children.   Giving life to                                                                   
     Isaiah   blessed  our   family,   including  the   other                                                                   
     children.   Because of his  heart condition,  Isaiah was                                                                   
     always  lethargic and  sleepy and tired  acting, but  he                                                                   
     was never  in pain.   The equipment which  monitored his                                                                   
     oxygen saturation rate showed  that whenever we held him                                                                   
     or  showed affection  to him,  Isaiah was  aware of  it.                                                                   
     His  saturation  levels would  soar  when he  was  being                                                                   
     loved on.                                                                                                                  
     My daughter  Emily, who  is five,  loves to recount  the                                                                   
     story  of how Isaiah's  oxygen saturation  level was  in                                                                   
     the  60s  the night  before  he died.    I laid  him  in                                                                   
     Emily's arms, and immediately  his saturation level rose                                                                   
     to 100.   There seems to be  a feeling out there  that a                                                                   
     successful  life  is  one  that is  free  from  pain  or                                                                   
     suffering  or trials,  and that  isn't  true.   Isaiah's                                                                   
     life was successful.  We loved him, and he loved us.                                                                       
     We  have  been  comforted  and   encouraged  ever  since                                                                   
     Isaiah's  death  by  reading   of  other  families  with                                                                   
     Trisomy  children  in  the  S.O.F.T.  newsletter.    The                                                                   
     letters  and testimonials  are  all expressions  of  the                                                                   
     love each  family has for their  infant or child.   Many                                                                   
     of  them include  pictures of  their precious  children,                                                                   
     most of  them deceased, but  some still living.  Some of                                                                   
     them  tell  stories of  medical  professionals  pressing                                                                   
     them  to   have  abortions  are  very  similar   to  our                                                                   
     experience.   Without exception, every  family expressed                                                                   
     love and gratitude for the time  they had had with their                                                                   
     children, no matter how short.                                                                                             
     Uniform written  information should include  basic facts                                                                   
     regarding  fetal development  and  the risks  associated                                                                   
     with  continuing the  pregnancy  versus terminating  the                                                                   
     pregnancy.   Crisis pregnancies  come in many  different                                                                   
     forms.   For some women  it can  be a simple as  finding                                                                   
     out about WIC [federal Special  Supplemental Nutritional                                                                   
     Program  for Women,  Infants and  Children], others  may                                                                   
     not even  be aware  that the  child's father is  legally                                                                   
     responsible  for helping  to provide  support.  Over  90                                                                   
     percent  of all babies  diagnosed prenatally with  Downs                                                                   
     Syndrome  are aborted.   Could  it be  that those  women                                                                   
     don't know  about the parent  support groups  out there?                                                                   
     There  is a  wealth  of information  out  there, and  it                                                                   
     would be a great help to doctors  to have a booklet they                                                                   
     could hand out to their patients.                                                                                          
     Of course,  I would  like for every  mother to make  the                                                                   
     same decision  I did, but  I realize that  won't happen.                                                                   
     But   every  mother   deserves  to   have  all  of   the                                                                   
     information pertinent  to her situation so  that she can                                                                   
     make an intelligent  informed decision.  I  stand before                                                                   
     you today and  say that if you vote against  HB 329, you                                                                   
     are  saying, in  effect, that  women  are not  competent                                                                   
     enough  to  be  trusted with  the  facts  regarding  the                                                                   
     health  of their  own bodies  and that  of their  unborn                                                                   
     children.      A  "no"  vote   says  that  you  have  no                                                                   
     compassion  for families  and believe  that doctors  are                                                                   
     better  suited to  make decisions  for  women and  their                                                                   
     unborn babies.                                                                                                             
     A  "yes" note  for HB  329 sends  an entirely  different                                                                   
     message.   A  vote for  informed consent  says that  you                                                                   
     have  respect  for the  intelligence  of women  and  you                                                                   
     believe that they have the right  to be trusted with the                                                                   
     information necessary to make  decisions for themselves.                                                                   
     I  trust and  hope that  this body  of legislators  will                                                                   
     prove themselves to be in favor of women's rights.                                                                         
MS. JOSLIN commented on some questions to previous testimony and                                                                
shared photos of her baby.                                                                                                      
Number 1426                                                                                                                     
DANIELLE SERINO, Staff to Representative John Coghill, Alaska                                                                   
State Legislature, came forward and read the written testimony of                                                               
Wendy S. Cloyd:                                                                                                                 
     When  I began my  family in  1993 with  the birth of  my                                                                   
     daughter,  Carli  Ann,  I  was  thrilled  to  begin  the                                                                   
     journey  of   parenthood.    I  don't  think   I'd  ever                                                                   
     contemplated the  miracle of life until I'd  been a part                                                                   
     of such  a miracle.  I  had my second daughter,  Candra,                                                                   
     in 1994,  then my son Matthew  in 1996.  I  was pregnant                                                                   
     with my fourth  child in 1998 when I first  learned that                                                                   
     my  son had  Fragile X  syndrome,  an inherited  genetic                                                                   
     disorder  which causes  a  myriad of  issues,  including                                                                   
     mental retardation and autistic-like behavior.                                                                             
     From  that  moment  forward,   there  was  a  change  in                                                                   
     attitude   in  almost   every   health  professional   I                                                                   
     encountered.    Each  of them  seemed  to  express  with                                                                   
     urgency  the need  for me  to have  an amniocentesis  to                                                                   
     determine  if the  child I  was carrying  was Fragile  X                                                                   
     positive also.   My immediate response was  to tell them                                                                   
     that I would wait for the child  to be born before I had                                                                   
     any test; after  all, the information would  not be used                                                                   
     to determining  whether or not  I would keep  the child,                                                                   
     only  for   the  purpose  of  preparation,   if  needed.                                                                   
     Whispered and  hushed tones usually followed  suggesting                                                                   
     that  if I  changed my  mind, to  let them  know.   They                                                                   
     seemed to imply,  that when I came to my  senses, to let                                                                   
     them know!                                                                                                                 
     In the meantime, my other two  children were tested, and                                                                   
     the  results  of  those  tests  determined  them  to  be                                                                   
     positive  for the  full mutation of  Fragile X  Syndrome                                                                   
     also.  Each  child has a 50-50 chance of  inheriting the                                                                   
     defective gene  from a carrier mother or  father.  Three                                                                   
     of three,  so far  were positive.   With these  results,                                                                   
     doctors again  urged me to have my unborn  child tested.                                                                   
     Again, I wondered  what urgency they saw,  other than to                                                                   
     give me the option of terminating  the pregnancy.  Often                                                                   
     with tears, I let them know  that to consider my current                                                                   
     pregnancy "disposable"  gave the unarguable  implication                                                                   
     that the  three already  living in  this world had  less                                                                   
     I   tell  you,   not  one   medical  professional   ever                                                                   
     volunteered  to give  me the entire  story of  abortion.                                                                   
     It was presented  as the only logical choice  if a child                                                                   
     were found to  be carrying the full mutation  of Fragile                                                                   
     X  Syndrome.    The  idea  that  those  in  the  medical                                                                   
     profession  might find it  an "unnecessary nuisance"  to                                                                   
     treat abortion  with the seriousness that it  demands is                                                                   
     lunacy.   A doctor will  tell you not  to be out  in the                                                                   
     sun  if you  are taking  certain  antibiotics, to  avoid                                                                   
     driving  after taking  a sedative  and on  and on.   Why                                                                   
     would  it be  too much  to ask for  a doctor  to tell  a                                                                   
     patient  the  ramifications  of abortion  on  a  woman's                                                                   
     body?  I  would have to assume that, in  their minds, to                                                                   
     do  so  would  put  the  responsibility   of  a  woman's                                                                   
     physical and  emotional health in their hands,  and that                                                                   
     seems to be more than they want to be accountable for.                                                                     
     I  urge  you  to make  informed  consent  a  simple  and                                                                   
     mandatory event  in the discussion of abortion  by those                                                                   
     in the medical profession.                                                                                                 
Number 1563                                                                                                                     
ANN HARRISON  testified  via teleconference  from Fairbanks.   She                                                              
has 35-years experience  as a registered nurse  and women's health                                                              
care practitioner.  The health of  women and children has been the                                                              
focus of  her vocation.  She  and her colleagues  provide pregnant                                                              
women  with  unbiased   information  and  since   1994  have  been                                                              
providing  informed  consent.     They  speak  professionally  and                                                              
without judgment and  do not make decisions for others.   The vast                                                              
majority of women who decide on terminating  their pregnancy do so                                                              
with great thought, knowledge and soul searching.                                                                               
MS. HARRISON  strongly opposes  HB 329.   It  is biased  and anti-                                                              
abortion, one sided  and can only add to the stress  of an already                                                              
difficult time.  Her conscience and  professionalism have dictated                                                              
that  she  educate   pregnant  women  on  the   legal  options  of                                                              
pregnancy:   carrying to term and  parenting, giving the  child up                                                              
for adoption,  or terminating the  pregnancy.  She  commented that                                                              
pregnancy  can  be   a  joyous  occasion  for  women   or  a  very                                                              
distressful  time for women  and the  consequences can  be serious                                                              
and   lasting.     From  that   standpoint,   she  believes   that                                                              
professional   knowledge   about    and   compassionate   abortion                                                              
counseling is critical.                                                                                                         
Number 1695                                                                                                                     
DAWN HOOKS  testified via teleconference  from Anchorage  in favor                                                              
of HB 329.  She gave the following testimony:                                                                                   
     At  the  age of  18,  I  was preparing  myself  for  the                                                                   
     upcoming fall to enter college.   Two weeks before I was                                                                   
     to leave home for school, I  found out that I was seven-                                                                   
     weeks pregnant.   I was  ashamed and very  disappointed.                                                                   
     I  had  been  on  the  pill   and  thought  that  I  was                                                                   
     protecting myself.   I told my mother and  later told my                                                                   
     boyfriend of the news hoping  that someone would counsel                                                                   
     me on what  to do.  My mother told me it  was my choice,                                                                   
     and  my  boyfriend thought  I  had  to  get on  with  my                                                                   
     college  plans and  pursue my  career.  I  did not  know                                                                   
     what to  do.  I thought  about my goals and  placed them                                                                   
     as my guiding decision.                                                                                                    
     I called numerous clinics and  finally spoke to a nurse;                                                                   
     she told me to come in the next  day.  I was told that I                                                                   
     was so early in my pregnancy  that the doctor would just                                                                   
     be removing tissue.  Had I known  what she called tissue                                                                   
     was my child--a living, moving,  breathing part of me--I                                                                   
     would not have  had an abortion.  If I was  told all the                                                                   
     facts  and then given  time to  discuss this, or  review                                                                   
     them for myself,  I would not have had an  abortion.  If                                                                   
     I had  been told what the  procedure truly was,  and the                                                                   
     truth of fetal development,  I would not have aborted my                                                                   
     child 14 years ago.  I can visually  remember everything                                                                   
     that led  to that dreadful  decision in  my life.   As I                                                                   
     daily come to  terms with that decision, I  find it hard                                                                   
     to stand by and let someone  make the same decision that                                                                   
     I did without  knowing the truth of what  an abortion is                                                                   
     and  its  consequences.   I  witness  to the  fact  that                                                                   
     daily.  I think  of my child and realize that  I did not                                                                   
     give myself or my child a chance  because I did not know                                                                   
     the  facts.    I  received  more  information  regarding                                                                   
     getting my  wisdom tooth pulled  than I did  choosing an                                                                   
Number 1781                                                                                                                     
RUBY FLETCHER  testified via teleconference  from the  Mat-Su LIO.                                                              
She had two  abortions and wanted  to share how they  affected her                                                              
life.   After the abortions she  became more intent  on justifying                                                              
her right  to choose  abortion; she  hated the  booth at  the fair                                                              
because  it showed  her  what  she had  done.   She  would  become                                                              
depressed at certain  times of the year, and she  didn't know why.                                                              
She chose  shortly after the abortions  never to trust  men, which                                                              
caused many problems in her relationships;  she began to use drugs                                                              
and alcohol  to numb the pain.   She has loads of guilt  and shame                                                              
when she  thought of  her aborted  babies and  thought they  hated                                                              
her.    Eleven   years  and  three  children  later,   she  had  a                                                              
miscarriage at the  same state of development as  her aborted baby                                                              
and realized what her aborted baby  looked like.  No one had given                                                              
her that  information.  During  the aftermath of  the miscarriage,                                                              
she grieved  for three  babies.   She wished  somebody would  have                                                              
told her what her babies looked like;  not that it was just a glob                                                              
of  tissue.   She  expressed  her  support  for  HB  329.   It  is                                                              
important that women know what their babies are.                                                                                
Number 1891                                                                                                                     
DR. COLLEEN MURPHY testified via teleconference from Anchorage in                                                               
opposition to HB 329.  She read the following testimony:                                                                        
     I   am  an   obstetrician-gynecologist   who   currently                                                                   
     practices in  private practice in Anchorage,  Alaska.  I                                                                   
     have been  in the  state since  1987 and have  delivered                                                                   
     over 2000 babies.                                                                                                          
     I'd like to speak against SSHB 329.                                                                                        
     I  believe it  is a  very dangerous  precedent into  the                                                                   
     practice  of medicine  by our  legislators.   There  are                                                                   
     very  dangerous  ambiguities contained in this  bill and                                                                   
     serious  professional implications  of allowing  Alaskan                                                                   
     lawmakers to define patient treatment options.                                                                             
     As   the    American   College    of   Obstetrics    and                                                                   
     Gynecologist's  Executive Board  stated in January  1999                                                                   
     [Statement   of   Policy]:      "The   intervention   of                                                                   
     legislative  bodies  into  medical  decision  making  is                                                                   
     inappropriate, ill  advised and dangerous."   As well as                                                                   
     the  American Medical  Association resolved  in 1999  to                                                                   
     oppose  such practices  of  procedure-specific  informed                                                                   
     consent finding them "informed  consent requirements for                                                                   
     specific  medical  procedures  often are  not  medically                                                                   
     indicated   and   are  never   appropriate   areas   for                                                                   
     codification in law."                                                                                                      
     Regardless  of  what  one  thinks   of  about  abortion,                                                                   
     legislative  intrusive  in   the  licensed  practice  of                                                                   
     medicine has very serious implications  to the future of                                                                   
     the profession of medicine in Alaska.                                                                                      
     These  biased  counseling  laws,   like  waiting  period                                                                   
     requirements,  residency  requirements,  physician  only                                                                   
     laws,  and  an  array of  other  restrictions,  are  not                                                                   
     created to protect women's health.   The purpose is very                                                                   
     clear.   These laws are enacted  to make a  woman's very                                                                   
     personal   decision  even   more   difficult.     Biased                                                                   
     counseling  laws intimidate  women  and discourage  them                                                                   
     from  seeking legal  medical care  and exercising  their                                                                   
     legal reproductive  rights.  Fear of  criminal sanctions                                                                   
     and  the  intrusive  nature of  these  state  prescribed                                                                   
     litanies  also serve  to deter  doctors from  performing                                                                   
     abortions,  further exacerbating  the present  shortage.                                                                   
     Opponents  of  choice  only  hope that  if  they  create                                                                   
     enough barriers  like these that women will  not be able                                                                   
     to overcome them.                                                                                                          
      I speak firmly in opposition to this bill.  I feel it                                                                     
          does a disservice to my patients and to your                                                                          
     constituents statewide.                                                                                                    
CHAIRMAN DYSON  referred to the Roe  v. Wade decision and  said as                                                            
he remembered it,  it said that the state had  an increasing civil                                                              
rights type  interest in the second  and third trimesters,  and he                                                              
asked Dr. Murphy if she and her profession disagreed with that.                                                                 
Number 2011                                                                                                                     
DR. MURPHY  answered no, she believes  the issue right now  is the                                                              
right to privacy.   What is so interesting about HB  329 is how it                                                              
is procedure  specific.  It does  not seem that there is  any sort                                                              
of  effort on  the part  of the  legislature to  be creating  such                                                              
codification  for appendectomies,  mastectomies,  or  any sort  of                                                              
procedure.   Realistically,  much  of  the previous  testimony  is                                                              
based on informed consent done very  many years ago.  The standard                                                              
of practice  has radically  changed in  the last  ten years.   The                                                              
medical/legal environment  has radically  changed.  It is  now the                                                              
standard of care  to provide a complete,  concise, age-appropriate                                                              
consent  for virtually  any sort of  medical procedure,  including                                                              
abortion.   Abortion  should not  be  singled out  for a  detailed                                                              
consent that is codified in the state law.                                                                                      
CHAIRMAN DYSON  asked if  it was  fair to infer  in her  view that                                                              
there is  nothing fundamentally different  about an  abortion than                                                              
any other legal medical procedure.                                                                                              
DR. MURPHY  replied that an abortion  is a medical  procedure that                                                              
is offered  to a woman as part  of the spectrum of  prenatal care.                                                              
There  are some  women  who  do not  elect  to continue  a  normal                                                              
pregnancy; there  are some women  that become pregnant  because of                                                              
sexual assault;  there are some  women that have  pregnancies that                                                              
are abnormal  that they elect not  to continue.  It is  a spectrum                                                              
of medical care  that is legally provided in this  country at this                                                              
CHAIRMAN DYSON said  "So in your view, there is no  basis on which                                                              
we ought to consider the rights of the unborn child."                                                                           
DR. MURPHY  noted that the  rights of the  unborn child is  a very                                                              
complex issue.   Currently  she is involved  in a case  where they                                                              
are trying to  determine the beginning of life.   "Frankly, if you                                                              
look at the Alaska  state statutes, it's defined  as 'the presence                                                              
of  a   heartbeat  after  birth   as  well  as  the   presence  of                                                              
respiration.'  So you need to look  elsewhere where the definition                                                              
of life has already been defined for criminal intent."                                                                          
Number 2143                                                                                                                     
RUTH  EWIG  testified  via teleconference  from  Fairbanks.    She                                                              
thanked  Representative Coghill  for  sponsoring informed  consent                                                              
before abortion.   Abortion has been legal for 27  years yet there                                                              
has been no accompanying law ensuring  that pregnant women will be                                                              
provided with  the facts  and risks of  the abortion  procedure to                                                              
her and obviously her baby.  She  recommended the book Lime 5.  It                                                            
was  the  physician's  discretion   in  each  one  of  these  case                                                              
histories  not to  inform the  women who  are now  either dead  or                                                              
permanently  physically injured for  life as  the result  of legal                                                              
abortion.   Lime 5 does not  address emotional injury;  that would                                                            
require  another larger  book.   She encouraged  the committee  to                                                              
read this book.                                                                                                                 
Number 2217                                                                                                                     
MARVELLE WILLIAMS  testified via teleconference from  Anchorage in                                                              
favor  of HB  329.   Several  years ago  she  found herself  going                                                              
through an  unwanted pregnancy.   She was under  the misconception                                                              
that because  abortion was  legal, it  was safe.   After  all, the                                                              
fetus was not  considered a child  until it was born anyway.   She                                                              
was told  she would experience a  little pain and discomfort.   No                                                              
one  told  her   about  the  years  of  guilt,   remorse  nor  the                                                              
unexplained depression.   Had she  been fully informed,  she would                                                              
have made another choice.                                                                                                       
Number 2276                                                                                                                     
CATHY GIRARD  testified  via teleconference  from Anchorage.   She                                                              
stated that  informed consent as  it stands is not  broken; please                                                              
don't  try  to fix  it.    She  is bothered  by  the  government's                                                              
continual  pursuit to restrict  Alaskans'  freedoms to make  their                                                              
own  reproductive decisions.   Informed  consent  is nothing  more                                                              
than biased redundant counseling.   Alaska already has an informed                                                              
consent law  for all medical procedures.   She doesn't  believe it                                                              
is the  legislature's  business to  mandate a  woman or couple  to                                                              
wait for a medical procedure that  could prevent a baby from being                                                              
carried  to  full  term  because abortion  is  already  legal  and                                                              
equally as important, safe.  If she  were faced with an unintended                                                              
pregnancy, her  counseling would be  with friends, family  and her                                                              
own chosen sources, not a state-assigned  counselor.  Since she is                                                              
responsible to  pay taxes,  she feels she  is responsible  to make                                                              
her own parenting decisions on her own terms.                                                                                   
MS. GIRARD continued, furthermore,  HB 329 has changed the federal                                                              
definition of  pregnancy to  the degree that  it would  render IUD                                                              
[intrauterine device]  and emergency contraception  illegal in the                                                              
state of  Alaska.  Currently, both  methods are legal,  simple and                                                              
inexpensive ways to  keep a fertilized egg from  implanting in the                                                              
womb  and  therefore  prevent  a future  abortion.    Abortion  is                                                              
stressful;  but what  about bringing  an unwanted  child into  the                                                              
world?   An unwanted child,  whether aborted or  birthed, presents                                                              
emotional and  physical consequences no  more or no less  than the                                                              
other during  those pregnancies  and long  after the pregnancy  as                                                              
been aborted  or carried to  term.  "If  you are going  to require                                                              
two week incremental  photos of fetus growth, I hope  you are also                                                              
going to require  photos and statistics of what it's  like to give                                                              
up  a baby  for adoption.   Or  how about  when a  raped woman  or                                                              
incested girl might  feel like after she sees  her assailants face                                                              
in her  child's face?  Or  what it takes  to become a parent?   It                                                              
appears that the  underlying motivation for HB 329  is to dissuade                                                              
pregnant girls  and women  from having abortions.   This  does not                                                              
treat the  three options, abortion,  adoption and  parenting, with                                                              
equal consideration."                                                                                                           
TAPE 00-33, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2353                                                                                                                     
KATHERINE DAVEY testified via teleconference  from Anchorage.  She                                                              
is a health educator in Anchorage.   She spoke today as a woman, a                                                              
daughter and an  adopted person, a life-long Alaskan  and a voter.                                                              
She  strongly  opposes  HB 329;  it  is  inaccurate,  insensitive,                                                              
unrealistic,  irresponsible,  dangerous, and  it  places as  undue                                                              
burden on Alaskan families.  She  appreciated Dr. Nakamura's input                                                              
on  the inaccuracies  of the  definitions  within the  bill.   She                                                              
would  never challenge  another person's  belief  about when  life                                                              
begins and believes that is best  left to philosophy and religion.                                                              
MS. DAVEY  went on  to say  that HB 329  is insensitive  regarding                                                              
counseling a woman that the father  is liable financially; that is                                                              
unrealistic, as has been discussed  previously, when the degree of                                                              
compliance  is noted.   Even  with  federally mandated  networking                                                              
programs,  only  15 states  have  signed up  for  that  with a  20                                                              
percent  success rate  in getting  the child support  money.   She                                                              
cannot imagine  a woman  who has been  raped being counseled  that                                                              
she can rely  on the support of  that rapist to provide  money for                                                              
that child.   To force a  woman to view gestational  developmental                                                              
pictures is especially insensitive  when that pregnancy is wanted.                                                              
She  concluded that  this is  a dangerous  bill.   She noted  that                                                              
Mississippi passed  the 24-hour waiting period and  the incidences                                                              
of second  trimester abortions  went up 53  percent; that is  in a                                                              
state where  women can go to  adjacent states and  receive medical                                                              
procedures.   Women are  not just restricted  with a  24-hour time                                                              
period;  it ends  up  being weeks  and  weeks.   Second  trimester                                                              
abortions are much more risky.                                                                                                  
Number 2244                                                                                                                     
ROBIN  SMITH  testified  via  teleconference   from  Anchorage  in                                                              
opposition  to  HB 329.    She  stated that  this  bill  questions                                                              
women's    intelligence    and   their    moral    decision-making                                                              
capabilities.   The same woman's intelligence she  questions will,                                                              
nine months later, have total parental  control over another human                                                              
being simply if  she endures a pregnancy.  Does  giving birth make                                                              
a  woman  more  intelligent  or  equal  to  men  in  making  moral                                                              
decisions?   There already  is a  24-hour waiting  period for  any                                                              
woman considering abortion.  This is a typical scenario:                                                                        
     First, am I pregnant?  How many  days late is my period,                                                                   
     three, four,  a week?   Then the  home pregnancy  test -                                                                   
     positive.   Could it be wrong?   Go to a  medical clinic                                                                   
     and get  a real pregnancy test.   The test  is positive;                                                                   
     what  do I  do?   Have  the baby,  be  a parent;  choose                                                                   
     adoption;  how  about  abortion?    ...  I've  seen  the                                                                   
     pictures on  TV so I  know what a  fetus looks like.   I                                                                   
     decide  on  abortion;  I call  the  doctor's  office  to                                                                   
     schedule an  appointment; I cannot  have one until  I am                                                                   
     seven-weeks  pregnant.  It  will cost  $550, and I  have                                                                   
     one more  week to wait.   The reason  that they  have to                                                                   
     wait  until seven  weeks is  because  the doctors  can't                                                                   
     determine  whether or  not the  tissue  is actually  the                                                                   
     fetus until seven weeks.  I  arrive at the clinic, ... a                                                                   
     nurse or physician  talks to me to make sure  this is my                                                                   
     decision  and  I'm  not being  coerced  into  having  an                                                                   
     abortion by  a parent or  a partner.   Am I aware  of my                                                                   
     other options?  Do I fully understand  the procedure?  I                                                                   
     sign  the   standard  consent  form;  the   abortion  is                                                                   
     This is no simple decision.   It is now three full weeks                                                                   
     from the first day the woman  missed her period.  Do you                                                                   
     really  feel an  additional  24-hour  waiting period  is                                                                   
     needed or just an added burden.  ...Where will I get the                                                                   
     money?  The  state is not paying for abortions  for poor                                                                   
     women  despite  a  court  order.    I  need  to  fly  to                                                                   
     Anchorage.   Where will I stay?   Who will take  care of                                                                   
     my children?   Putting more obstacles in  front of women                                                                   
     just increases  a woman's health risk; pregnancy  is not                                                                   
     benign; women do die in pregnancy.                                                                                         
MS. SMITH shared a story which suggested  a better way would be to                                                              
require responsible  sex education  in school.   It would  have an                                                              
impact  on both men  and women.   This  could potentially  prevent                                                              
unintended  pregnancies and  therefore abortions.   She urged  the                                                              
committee to consider more appropriate  action and vote no on this                                                              
Number 2115                                                                                                                     
JOYCE  LAINE  testified  via  teleconference   from  Anchorage  in                                                              
opposition  to HB 329.   She  said she  gave birth  to a child  34                                                              
years ago  after an  unsuccessful illegal  abortion attempt.   She                                                              
gave the child  up for adoption feeling that was  the only choice.                                                              
She began living  as another person,  a person who had  not had an                                                              
out of wedlock child,  and it has been only in  the last few years                                                              
that she has  reemerged as a person  who did that.  She  spent the                                                              
better part  of 34 years  being ashamed  because she had  a child.                                                              
She was date-raped and only figured  that out a few years ago; all                                                              
this time she thought  it was her fault.  That  was a heavy burden                                                              
that spoiled her family relations  and lost friends.  Twenty three                                                              
years ago,  she and  her ex-husband adopted  a five-year  girl who                                                              
was not  given up  by her  mother at  birth, nor  was she  aborted                                                              
because  the mother  was  married at  the time.    The mother  was                                                              
woefully inadequate  as a parent.   She beat the child,  the child                                                              
was  sexually  abused, neglected,  shut  in  closets and  made  to                                                              
suffer dreadful  things because she  was kept by somebody  who had                                                              
no business  of being  a parent.   Going ahead  and having  a baby                                                              
does not ensure that that child will  live happily ever after with                                                              
some loving family who adopts him/her.   She stated that this bill                                                              
is  woefully  inadequate,  unnecessary,  badly  phrased  and  very                                                              
Number 1986                                                                                                                     
JENNIFER  RUDINGER,  Executive Director,  Alaska  Civil  Liberties                                                              
Union (ACLU),  testified via teleconference  from Anchorage.   She                                                              
referred to  the earlier question  of How does this  bill increase                                                              
the  cost of  abortion?   In  addition to  what  has already  been                                                              
mentioned  about   the  24-hour  delay,  specifically   that  will                                                              
increase the  complication of the  surgery and increase  the level                                                              
of specialization  required.   In addition  to increased  costs in                                                              
the   delay  due   to  rescheduling   work,   family  and   school                                                              
obligations,  there  is  also  increased   cost  from  the  biased                                                              
counseling provisions of the bill.                                                                                              
MS. RUDINGER  said HB 329 prohibits  a trained counselor  or nurse                                                              
or another health care practitioner  from providing the counseling                                                              
to  the patient,  requiring  instead  that  a doctor  deliver  the                                                              
state's message.  This stipulation  has a direct effect on women's                                                              
health  and also  drives up  the  cost.   Many clinics  experience                                                              
serious difficulty in finding doctors  willing and able to perform                                                              
abortions,  and the few  who are  available often find  themselves                                                              
barely able to  meet the needs of their patients.   By prohibiting                                                              
doctors from delegating the counseling  and related tasks to other                                                              
trained professionals, this bill  would make it far more difficult                                                              
for  clinics to  provide  women with  the  health  care that  they                                                              
deserve.   Furthermore, since  the doctor's  time costs  much more                                                              
than that of a nurse, clinician,  social worker, or counselor, the                                                              
doctor-only stipulation drives up  the costs of abortion and other                                                              
health services provided by clinics.                                                                                            
MS. RUDINGER noted  that the members of the ACLU  oppose this bill                                                              
because  they believe  it  is  unconstitutional  under the  Alaska                                                              
constitution.     She  concluded   with  these  points:     Biased                                                              
counseling   gives  women   inaccurate   and  incomplete   medical                                                              
information;   requiring  that  physicians   deliver  the   biased                                                              
lectures  makes access  to quality reproductive  health care  more                                                              
difficult and expensive; informed  consent is already required for                                                              
medical   procedures;  biased   counseling  requirements   violate                                                              
standard  medical practice  and the  doctor/patient  relationship;                                                              
waiting periods  cause medical risks;  waiting period  laws demean                                                              
women's decision-making ability.                                                                                                
Number 1853                                                                                                                     
CHAIRMAN DYSON asked Ms. Rudinger  if she would be willing to help                                                              
the  sponsor craft  this  bill  so the  information  dissemination                                                              
isn't biased.                                                                                                                   
MS. RUDINGER  replied the  entire bill is  biased in  the language                                                              
and the requirements; there is no  way to make this bill unbiased.                                                              
She basically said no.                                                                                                          
Number 1805                                                                                                                     
LAVERNE  PETTIGER  testified via  teleconference  from  Anchorage.                                                              
She expressed her support favor of  HB 329 because it fills a need                                                              
that is  not there.   Women  can make  an informed decision  about                                                              
abortion.  She had  an abortion 19 years ago, but  there were many                                                              
things that were not told to her  then.  The medical risks for the                                                              
abortion procedure  were not mentioned nor were  infection, breast                                                              
cancer,  infertility,  or psychological  effects.    There was  no                                                              
alternative  to  abortion.   No  pictures  of the  unborn  child's                                                              
gestational age were shown either.                                                                                              
MS.  PETTIGER  said  she  believes  if  she  had  gotten  all  the                                                              
information, she could  have made a better decision  at that time.                                                              
When people are  in crisis, they need more information  to make an                                                              
informed  decision.   Her abortion  was  paid for  by the  federal                                                              
government,  and she doesn't  believe that  should have  happened.                                                              
She  doesn't  remember  doctor's  name;  he was  vague  about  any                                                              
information about the  procedure.  He never told  her about any of                                                              
the side effects.  She regrets having  an abortion.  It comes down                                                              
to giving  people the facts so  they can make  informed decisions.                                                              
She believes she  would have her baby today if she  had been given                                                              
the facts.                                                                                                                      
Number 1688                                                                                                                     
LEILA WISE,  Alaska First Choice  Alliance, a statewide  coalition                                                              
of organizations united in the commitment  to protect reproductive                                                              
rights,  testified via  teleconference from  Anchorage.   She made                                                              
the following testimony:                                                                                                        
     We oppose HB 329 and urge you  to vote against this bill                                                                   
     and to  not pass it out  of committee.  The  decision to                                                                   
     choose  an abortion  is personal and  private, and  it's                                                                   
     best left to a woman in those  individual (indisc.) that                                                                   
     she chooses to advise her--her  family, her friends, her                                                                   
     clergy, her physician.  The  provisions of this bill are                                                                   
     invasive  and  punitive  and   are  seemingly  based  on                                                                   
     inaccurate  information  about   medical  practices  and                                                                   
     As  I have  sat  here today,  I've  been  struck by  the                                                                   
     testimony of  other women who  had abortions  many years                                                                   
     ago and who speak of not receiving  the information that                                                                   
     they would have liked to have  obtained then.  I'm happy                                                                   
     to  report that  the standard  of care  has changed  and                                                                   
     that women  today receive full and accurate  information                                                                   
     from their physicians and health care providers.                                                                           
     I would also like to point out  that the women who spoke                                                                   
     today about choosing against  abortion in the recent few                                                                   
     years  were provided  information  about  the status  of                                                                   
     their pregnancies  and made and exercised  their freedom                                                                   
     of  choice to  continue their  pregnancies to  term.   I                                                                   
     commend  them for  exercising  their choices  just as  I                                                                   
     applaud those  women many years ago who  exercised their                                                                   
     choice at that  time.  This bill is inaccurate;  it uses                                                                   
     incorrect definitions.  Abortion  is a medical procedure                                                                   
     and relying on Black's Law Dictionary  is inappropriate;                                                                 
     it is best  to use only medically accepted  and accurate                                                                   
     terminology, and I appreciate  the willingness of you to                                                                   
     look at those definitions instead.                                                                                         
     In particular, we are concerned  about the definition of                                                                   
     conception,  and that it  could in fact  ban the  use of                                                                   
     contraceptives, since contraceptive  use is the best way                                                                   
     to  prevent  pregnancy  and  abortions.   This  bill  is                                                                   
     intrusive;  no other  medical procedure  requires a  24-                                                                   
     hour waiting  period for all women and no  other waiting                                                                   
     period of any kind punishes women exclusively.                                                                             
     Abortion,  like any other  surgical procedure,  requires                                                                   
     informed consent.   As with any surgical  procedure, the                                                                   
     physician  and his/her  staff  convey that  information.                                                                   
     Are   you  going   to  require   informed  consent   for                                                                   
     (indisc.)?   Will pregnant women  and their  families be                                                                   
     shown pictures  of the gestational  age of children  and                                                                   
     then pictures of children as  they develop through life,                                                                   
     children  who may have  severe birth  defects?  Are  you                                                                   
     going to discuss the consequences  of having a child and                                                                   
     not receiving support from an absentee father?                                                                             
     ... This  bill is  dangerous.   Women in Alaska  already                                                                   
     face  enormous   burdens  and  challenges   in  locating                                                                   
     abortion services.   Many women  must leave  their homes                                                                   
     even to obtain  a first trimester procedure;  it creates                                                                   
     an  enormous  financial  burden.    Imposing  a  24-hour                                                                   
     waiting  period  will magnify  that  burden  and as  has                                                                   
     already  been   pointed  out  would  allow   anti-choice                                                                   
     extremists  to harass women  ...  This bill  dehumanizes                                                                   
     women;  it patronizes  women; it  shames them.   We  are                                                                   
     very concerned  about that.   We believe that  women are                                                                   
     smart  enough, responsible  enough,  capable enough,  to                                                                   
     make their  own choices and  to take responsibility  for                                                                   
     those choices.                                                                                                             
Number 1486                                                                                                                     
HUGH FLEISCHER  testified via teleconference  from Anchorage.   He                                                              
considers  it to be  inappropriate for  the state  of Alaska.   He                                                              
opposes   the   passage   of   HB   329   and   believes   it   is                                                              
unconstitutional.  He respectfully  asked the members of the House                                                              
to not pass HB 329.                                                                                                             
Number 1438                                                                                                                     
CAREN ROBINSON,  Lobbyist, Alaska  Women's Lobby, came  forward to                                                              
testify.   The Alaska  Women's Lobby is  a citizen activist  group                                                              
formed  in  1982 dedicated  to  equality,  and they  strongly  are                                                              
against HB  329.  Her  experience included  being director  of the                                                              
AWARE  [Aiding  Women  in  Abuse  and  Rape  Emergencies]  Shelter                                                              
working  with victims  of rape and  incest and  being involved  in                                                              
working with women  across the state.  She urged  the committee to                                                              
reconsider the 24-hour  waiting period.  The main  reason is women                                                              
already  go  through  a  long  process  to  decide  to  carry  the                                                              
pregnancy to  term or  to get an  abortion.   She doesn't  know of                                                              
anyone she  has talked to  who has found  out she is  pregnant and                                                              
that  day got an  abortion.   It usually  has been  a long,  well-                                                              
thought  out  process.   Women  in Alaska  have  to  seek out  the                                                              
information of  who and where  they can go  for an abortion.   She                                                              
recommended training people to advocate  for themselves in medical                                                              
situations to ask the questions.   She urged the committee members                                                              
to not  pass the  bill out  of the  committee and  let the  normal                                                              
process  continue to  work as  it  does.   [HB 329  was heard  and                                                              
There being  no further business  before the committee,  the House                                                              
Health, Education  and Social Services Standing  Committee meeting                                                              
was adjourned at 5:59 p.m.                                                                                                      

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