Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/27/1999 10:10 AM HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
         HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL                                                                                     
            SERVICES STANDING COMMITTEE                                                                                         
                   March 27, 1999                                                                                               
                     10:10 a.m.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Representative Fred Dyson, Co-Chair                                                                                             
Representative John Coghill, Co-Chair                                                                                           
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
Representative Joe Green                                                                                                        
Representative Carl Morgan                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Representative Tom Brice                                                                                                        
Representative Allen Kemplen                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
* HOUSE BILL NO. 85                                                                                                             
"An Act relating to licensure and professional discipline of                                                                    
members of the teaching profession and providing for related                                                                    
penalties; relating to grounds for dismissal of a teacher; relating                                                             
to the Professional Teaching Practices Commission; relating to                                                                  
limited immunity for procedures under the Educator Ethics Act;                                                                  
making conforming amendments; and providing for an effective date."                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 85 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
* HOUSE BILL NO. 129                                                                                                            
"An Act excluding school principals from collectively bargaining                                                                
under the Public Employment Relations Act."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED HB 129 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 11(FIN)                                                                                      
Urging the Congress of the United States to provide federal                                                                     
education funds as a block grant to the state.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSSJR 11(FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
(* First public hearing)                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB  85                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: TEACHERS' LICENSES, DISCIPLINE & ETHICS                                                                            
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/10/99       186     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/10/99       186     (H)  HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                                                                             
 2/10/99       186     (H)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DOE)                                                                              
 2/10/99       186     (H)  GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                                                                       
 3/04/99               (H)  HES AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                                                                         
 3/04/99               (H)                                                                                                      
 3/27/99               (H)  HES AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 129                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: COLLECTIVE BARGAINING; PRINCIPALS                                                                                  
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVES(S) OGAN, Kohring                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 3/05/99       368     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 3/05/99       368     (H)  HES, L&C                                                                                            
 3/27/99               (H)  HES AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
BILL: SJR 11                                                                                                                    
SHORT TITLE: EDUCATION BLOCK GRANTS                                                                                             
SPONSOR(S): FINANCE                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date    Jrn-Page           Action                                                                                           
 2/24/99       351     (S)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 2/24/99       351     (S)  FIN                                                                                                 
 3/11/99               (S)  FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                                                                  
 3/11/99               (S)  MOVED CS (FIN) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                     
 3/11/99               (S)  MINUTE(FIN)                                                                                         
 3/11/99       474     (S)  FIN RPT  CS  5DP 1NR      SAME TITLE                                                                
 3/11/99       474     (S)  DP: TORGERSON, PARNELL, PHILLIPS,                                                                   
                            GREEN,                                                                                              
 3/11/99       474     (S)  PETE KELLY; NR: ADAMS                                                                               
 3/12/99       493     (S)  ZERO FISCAL NOTE (S.FIN)                                                                            
 3/13/99               (S)  RLS AT  1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP 203                                                                      
 3/13/99               (S)  MINUTE(RLS)                                                                                         
 3/15/99       544     (S)  RULES TO CALENDAR  AND 1 OR 3/15/99                                                                 
 3/15/99       545     (S)  READ THE SECOND TIME                                                                                
 3/15/99       545     (S)  FIN  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                                                                        
 3/15/99       545     (S)  ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN                                                                      
                            CONSENT                                                                                             
 3/15/99       545     (S)  READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSJR 11(FIN)                                                                  
 3/15/99       545     (S)  PASSED Y19 N- E1                                                                                    
 3/15/99       546     (S)  ELLIS  NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                                                                    
 3/16/99       571     (S)  RECONSIDERATION NOT TAKEN UP                                                                        
 3/16/99       572     (S)  TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                                                                  
 3/17/99       488     (H)  READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                                                                   
 3/17/99       489     (H)  HES, FINANCE                                                                                        
 3/27/99               (H)  HES AT 10:00 AM CAPITOL 106                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SANNA GREEN, Executive Director                                                                                                 
Professional Teaching Practices Commission (PTPC)                                                                               
344 West Third Avenue, Suite 127                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 269-6579                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 85.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
TERESA WILLIAMS, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                     
Fair Business Practices Section                                                                                                 
Civil Division (Anchorage)                                                                                                      
Department of Law                                                                                                               
1031 West 4th Avenue, Suite 200                                                                                                 
Anchorage, Alaska  99501                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 269-5225                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided information on HB 85.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, Alaska State Legislature                                                                             
Capitol Building, Room 128                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-3878                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as sponsor of HB 129.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TODD HESS, Principal                                                                                                            
Baxter Elementary School                                                                                                        
3206 West 64th Avenue                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska  99502                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 243-8974                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ANDRE' LAYRAL, Principal                                                                                                        
North Pole Middle School                                                                                                        
President                                                                                                                       
Alaska Association of Secondary School Principals                                                                               
720 Cardinal Court                                                                                                              
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 479-0973                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
KEITH TATON, Principal                                                                                                          
Central Middle School of Science                                                                                                
4814 Malibu Road                                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska  99517                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 243-8818                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DON CHICARELL, Principal                                                                                                        
Iditarod Elementary School                                                                                                      
P.O. Box 873443                                                                                                                 
Wasilla, Alaska  99687                                                                                                          
Telephone:  (907) 376-5371                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TIMOTHY DORAN, Principal                                                                                                        
Denali Elementary School                                                                                                        
512 Windsor Drive                                                                                                               
Fairbanks, Alaska  99709                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 452-2456                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SOPHIA MASEWICZ, Principal                                                                                                      
Romig Middle School                                                                                                             
President                                                                                                                       
Anchorage Principals Association                                                                                                
2001 Shore Drive                                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska  99515                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 344-3269                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ERIC HENDERSON, Principal                                                                                                       
Wasilla Middle School                                                                                                           
President                                                                                                                       
Mat-Su Principals Association                                                                                                   
P.O. Box 2501                                                                                                                   
Palmer, Alaska  99645                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 376-7311                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
KYRA AIZSTRAUTS, Principal                                                                                                      
University Park Elementary School                                                                                               
P.O. Box 233                                                                                                                    
Ester, Alaska  99725                                                                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 476-3035                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL GRAHAM, Assistant Principal                                                                                             
East Anchorage High School                                                                                                      
Assistant Principal At-Large                                                                                                    
Alaska Association of Secondary School Principals, (AASSP)                                                                      
Assistant Principal Representative                                                                                              
Anchorage Principals Association                                                                                                
4831 Ridge Top Circle                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska  99508                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 337-9913                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CAROL KANE, Executive Director                                                                                                  
Alaska Association of Secondary School Principals (AASSP)                                                                       
P.O. Box 2889                                                                                                                   
Palmer, Alaska  99645                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 746-9300                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
VERNON MARSHALL, Executive Director                                                                                             
National Education Association Alaska                                                                                           
114 Second Street                                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska  9980                                                                                                            
Telephone:  (907) 586-3090                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
LEWIS SEARS, Principal                                                                                                          
Bartlett High School                                                                                                            
13030 Admiralty Place                                                                                                           
Anchorage, Alaska  99515                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 345-3367                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
FRED GIDDINGS, Principal                                                                                                        
Bayshore Elementary School                                                                                                      
11500 Bayshore Drive                                                                                                            
Anchorage, Alaska  99515                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 349-1514                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MARY JOHNSTONE, Principal,                                                                                                      
Susitna Elementary School                                                                                                       
President                                                                                                                       
Alaska Association of Elementary School Principals                                                                              
7500 Tyone Court                                                                                                                
Anchorage, Alaska  99504                                                                                                        
Telephone:  (907) 337-1583                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified against HB 129.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DAVE DONLEY, Alaska State Legislature                                                                                   
Capitol Building, Room 508                                                                                                      
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
Telephone:  (907) 465-3892                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as sponsor of SJR 11.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-26, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL called the House Health, Education and Social                                                               
Services Standing Committee meeting to order at 10:10 a.m.  Members                                                             
present at the call to order were Representatives Dyson, Coghill,                                                               
Whitaker, Green and Morgan.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HB 85 - TEACHERS' LICENSES, DISCIPLINE & ETHICS                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL announced the first order of business as House                                                              
Bill No. 85, "An Act relating to licensure and professional                                                                     
discipline of members of the teaching profession and providing for                                                              
related penalties; relating to grounds for dismissal of a teacher;                                                              
relating to the Professional Teaching Practices Commission;                                                                     
relating to limited immunity for procedures under the Educator                                                                  
Ethics Act; making conforming amendments; and providing for an                                                                  
effective date."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0215                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SANNA GREEN, Executive Director, Professional Teaching Practices                                                                
Commission (PTPC), testified via teleconference from Anchorage.                                                                 
She said the PTPC asks that this bill be passed because it                                                                      
strengthens and facilitates the commission's actions and more                                                                   
accurately reflects what they actually do.  They have had increased                                                             
duties dealing with denial and background checks.  Teresa Williams                                                              
has helped them codify their policies and regulations.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0290                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TERESA WILLIAMS, Assistant Attorney General, Fair Business                                                                      
Practices Section, Civil Division (Anchorage), Department of Law,                                                               
testified via teleconference from Anchorage.  She referred the                                                                  
committee to the sectional analysis attached to the bill.  First of                                                             
all, the State Board of Education asked that the name of the                                                                    
teacher's certificate be changed to license, so that necessitated                                                               
a number of changes.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS referred to Section 2 of HB 85.  Currently the power                                                               
of the PTPC and the Department of Education (DOE) to obtain a                                                                   
criminal history background check is obscure in the statute.  This                                                              
would make it clear that the DOE has this power and would expand                                                                
the power to include a person who was found not guilty by reason of                                                             
insanity.  Clearly, this is a necessary check to obtain on a person                                                             
who wants to teach in the school.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0430                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to page 2, Section 2 (c) and asked if                                                             
someone could be removed if they were to have been found to be a                                                                
problem during their tenure.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said actually Section 2 only discusses the information                                                             
that the DOE will have to review to determine whether or there are                                                              
problems; whether action is taken, based on that information, would                                                             
be under Section 3 and later in the bill under discipline.  Section                                                             
2 just gives the DOE the power to obtain information in order to                                                                
make an inquiry whether this person is fit to be a teacher.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said the governor's office forwarded over the                                                                      
amendments and is requesting that they be offered as a committee                                                                
substitute.  In answer to Representative Green's question, she                                                                  
pointed out on the amendment, page 2, line 17, there will be a                                                                  
substitution to subsection (c) to specify exactly when a criminal                                                               
background check will be requested at time of renewal.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0609                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said Section 3 is new because there is no provision in                                                             
statute that states when a teacher license will be denied.  They                                                                
have compiled different provisions that would warrant denial and                                                                
put together a list of bases for denial.  There will be permissive                                                              
basis for denial which include if a person lies about their                                                                     
criminal history; if a person has surrendered a teacher certificate                                                             
in another state and is under investigation there; or if their                                                                  
certificate was revoked or suspended in other jurisdictions.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS noted that Section 3 subsection (c) allows the DOE to                                                              
suspend processing of an application for a license if a person has                                                              
an unresolved criminal proceeding or a disciplinary proceeding in                                                               
another state.  Section 3, subsection (d) is new and allows for                                                                 
conditional licensing.  If a person had problems in another state                                                               
or has limitations this would allow a person to be licensed but                                                                 
only conditionally.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0754                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER said he assumes that Ms. Williams has                                                                   
checked to be sure they are in compliance with the Americans with                                                               
Disabilities Act (ADA) in Section 3 subsection (d) (1) which states                                                             
"The applicant is physically or mentally incapably of performing                                                                
some, but not all, of the functions of the teaching profession;"                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said it would conform with the ADA because a person                                                                
who might not be appropriate for a full license could get a                                                                     
certificate recognizing those physical limitations, so that they                                                                
could accommodate that person.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0811                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER wondered if she had verified this; that it                                                              
was not solely her opinion.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said she has discussed this other people in her office                                                             
and clearly any enforcement of this provision would need to promote                                                             
the ADA rather than in any way infringe the ADA.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0839                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said Section 3, subsection (e) provides for                                                                        
restrictions on re-applications.  This includes a problem which                                                                 
some of the other occupational licenses have had where a person is                                                              
denied a license, and then the next day they reapply.   This would                                                              
put a restriction on reapplication and set standards for what would                                                             
need to be done at the time of reapplication.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0876                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said that Section 3 subsection (f) provides a                                                                      
statutory provision for what happens and what the process would be                                                              
if the DOE denied a license; subsection (g) creates a statutory                                                                 
provision that clarifies that full reporting of final decisions on                                                              
denying a license is required.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0910                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said Section 4 makes the Administrative Procedure Act                                                              
(APA) applicable to review of denial.  Section 5 deals with teacher                                                             
discipline by a school district; instead of duplicating the                                                                     
language, there will be a cross reference.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0962                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if Section 5 limits the ability of the                                                                  
board to deal with a teacher on the basis of incompetency.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said that is still in there; grounds for discipline,                                                               
listed under 14.20.372, does include competency.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0986                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked how the board ascertains or evaluates                                                                   
incompetency.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said that is a difficult proposition to prove at the                                                               
state level.  They would rely upon the expertise of the district to                                                             
determine whether a person is incompetent and put together the                                                                  
record showing incompetency.  It would probably have been a                                                                     
discipline proceeding or termination proceeding at a district                                                                   
level, and then the PTPC would need to align that record to put                                                                 
together its own case.  These are tricky and expensive cases to put                                                             
together.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if there have been cases in recent history                                                              
of teachers being decertified for incompetency.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said incompetency has been listed as a ground, but                                                                 
they have not had a license revocation on the sole ground of                                                                    
incompetency.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1067                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if the term "moral turpitude" is defined in                                                             
law or in state code.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said "moral turpitude" is used in a number of places                                                               
in state statutes.  It is a term that is fairly ambiguous.  The                                                                 
PTPC recently adopted regulations that specified crimes of moral                                                                
turpitude, as have the Department of Corrections and the Division                                                               
of Elections.  The term "moral turpitude" means it would be a crime                                                             
even if there weren't a statute that said it was a crime.  It is                                                                
something that society historically has said was wrong in itself.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1124                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL referred to the said proposed regulations in 20                                                             
AAC 10.050 defining moral turpitude which lists about 28 things.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said those were just adopted by the PTPC and go into                                                               
effect April 5, 1999.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1144                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if HB 85 strengthens the board's ability to                                                             
deal with a teacher on the basis of moral turpitude.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said it doesn't change it; it keeps the same level of                                                              
authority.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if the amendments change that at all.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said no.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 1173                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked why the amendments were late in getting                                                                 
processed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1188                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS apologized for the lateness; there was confusion                                                                   
between her office and the governor's office about who was going to                                                             
get them down to the committee.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if somebody will speak to and defend the                                                                
board's draft as drafted, and why they didn't have the                                                                          
modifications that the amendments speak to.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1225                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said the bill as drafted was circulated to the Alaska                                                              
Association of School Administrators, the National Education                                                                    
Association and other teaching groups.  Those groups made comments                                                              
and then the PTPC went through the comments and made some changes.                                                              
She commented on a question about the language on page 5 of HB 85,                                                              
lines 17-18, which deletes the term as "as defined by the                                                                       
commission in regulation."  Because the commission already has the                                                              
overall power to define terms by regulation, it wasn't necessary to                                                             
reiterate that here.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if the PTPC has had a chance to look at                                                                 
these proposed amendments.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said the PTPC met Monday and agreed with the                                                                       
amendments.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if there was something formal from them                                                                 
saying that they endorse these amendments.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS answered that the minutes of the meeting were                                                                      
available.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS explained that Section 6, Grounds for discipline was                                                               
formerly AS 14.20.030.  Incompetency is still a grounds for                                                                     
discipline under Section 6, subsection (1).  The definition for                                                                 
immorality in subsection (2) is the same definition currently in                                                                
law. Section 6, subsection (3) and subsection (4) are the same.  In                                                             
subsection (5), they moved a regulatory provision to statute.  In                                                               
subsection (6), breach of contract is further explained by cross                                                                
referencing the regulatory provisions.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1428                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said Section 6 subsection (7) provides for discipline                                                              
if a person has been disciplined in another state; subsection (8)                                                               
surrender of a license in another state; subsection (9) failure to                                                              
comply with a condition or limitation placed on a license.  Section                                                             
6, subsection (b) is a provision that was put in by the legislature                                                             
about five years ago and strengthened in the last session.  They                                                                
are changing it here because under the current language there was                                                               
a suggestion that there would have to be an accusation at a                                                                     
hearing, even though this revocation should be automatic.  They                                                                 
redrafted the language to clarify that this revocation would be                                                                 
automatic upon receipt of a judgement of conviction.  The other                                                                 
part added here is if a person has had a license revoked as result                                                              
of such a conviction, that person may not be employed as a member                                                               
of the teaching profession, regardless of whether that employment                                                               
requires a license.  For example, counselors are not required to                                                                
have a license, but they are members of the teaching profession.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said Section 6 (c) makes it clear that judgment of                                                                 
conviction is conclusive evidence and includes a plea of nolo                                                                   
contendre; subsection (d) says in order to prove reciprocal                                                                     
discipline, all they need is the document from the other agency.                                                                
Section  14.20.375, Disciplinary actions are clarified here.  The                                                               
commissioner has always had authority to revoke a license,                                                                      
subsection (a) makes it clear.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS mentioned they changed the named of the PTPC to the                                                                
Educator Ethics Commission because it makes it clear about what                                                                 
they are and is easier to say.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1559                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON commented that he appreciates the desire to                                                                   
eliminate the tongue twister.  He wondered if ethics seems to                                                                   
preclude them dealing with competency.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said she didn't think so.  Clearly the statute gives                                                               
authority to the issue of incompetency.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON respectfully disagreed.  As a layman, he doesn't                                                              
think ethics denotes competency, but it sure is easier to say.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said the title of the commission may not state all the                                                             
functions of the commission, but the commission, under the bill and                                                             
current law, clearly has the authority to deal with the issue of                                                                
incompetency.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1603                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON said he thought competency might include ethics,                                                              
but he is not sure ethics includes competency.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL said in the amendments the changing of the word                                                             
chapter to section, it seems to him to limit within only the scope                                                              
of that particular section rather than the overall chapter, and he                                                              
asked what was the intent.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said it was really a matter of fine tuning the                                                                     
language to be clearer.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1647                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL said there was some disagreement with that, but                                                             
for the record, it looks like it narrows the scope, but it also                                                                 
seems to confuse how any particular section might be applied                                                                    
throughout the whole chapter.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said they tried to consolidate this particular section                                                             
all under grounds for disciplinary action.  For that reason they                                                                
thought it should be here.  If it is not here, then they have a                                                                 
problem.  She added that the committee could come up with another                                                               
appropriate name for the commission if they wished.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS referred to page 7 of HB 85 and said they used the                                                                 
occupational licensing board for a model in this section.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked for clarification on the amendment, page                                                              
8, following line 17, which states:                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Insert a new subsection to read:                                                                                           
          "(E) At the teacher's request, the commission or the                                                                  
     commissioner shall stay the proceedings on an accusation                                                                   
     under this section if the teacher has requested a hearing                                                                  
     before the school board or invoked grievance procedures                                                                    
     under AS 14.20.180 from a dismissal or nonretention                                                                        
     decision based on the same allegations as those made in                                                                    
     the accusation.  A stay under this subsection does not                                                                     
     preclude the commission from summarily suspending a                                                                        
     license under (d) of this section.  The proceedings on an                                                                  
     accusation are stayed until a final decision on the                                                                        
     nonretention or dismissal is reached under AS 14.20.180.                                                                   
     The commission or commissioner shall give deference to,                                                                    
     but is not bound by, a final decision under AS 14.20.180.                                                                  
     The commission or commissioner shall state good cause for                                                                  
     rejecting a finding of fact made in a final decision                                                                       
     under AS 14.20.180.  the commission or commissioner may                                                                    
     supplement the record with additional evidence on whether                                                                  
     there are grounds for discipline under AS 14.20.372 and                                                                    
     what discipline may be appropriate under his section."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said this is an important section.  This provision                                                                 
would parallel current practice to a large extent.  The action                                                                  
would be stayed pending the conclusion of the school district                                                                   
matter.  If the commission or commissioner were to reject the                                                                   
finding of fact made by the other body it would state good cause                                                                
for rejecting finding of fact.  The commission or the commissioner                                                              
would have the power to supplement the record with additional                                                                   
evidence.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1851                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS continued that in subsection (c) under disciplinary                                                                
actions, they made it clear that a teacher may not surrender a                                                                  
license without approval of the commission.  People are anxious to                                                              
surrender a license to somehow avoid a record when there are                                                                    
serious allegations.  In subsection (d), she said the DOE has never                                                             
had the power to summarily suspend a license, and certainly that is                                                             
an important deficiency that needs to be remedied.  The language                                                                
parallels the language of the occupational licensing statutes.                                                                  
Subsection (e) is existing law.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked for clarification on the amendment, page                                                              
7, line 7.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said this was a change made by the Department of Law                                                               
which makes it clearer.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1949                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS continued with subsection (f) which is existing law,                                                               
but they added the power to impose a civil fine; subsection (g) is                                                              
something that is already done, but this will clearly place it in                                                               
statute.  Section 14.20.378 is new and provides for reinstatement                                                               
after suspension or revocation.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL asked if it would be one year from revocation.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said in the current law under APA, if a license is                                                                 
suspended or revoked, a person can apply for reinstatement after a                                                              
year.  This would change it so they couldn't apply until five                                                                   
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said the rest of this section deals with the whole                                                                 
procedures on reinstatement.  Sections 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 had                                                                   
technical changes or were simplified and clarified.  Section 12                                                                 
subsection (b) is new so the commission can adopt the hearing                                                                   
officer's proposed findings of fact in their entirety and increase                                                              
or change the proposed disciplinary action.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if that can go in the other direction as                                                             
well.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS answered yes, they can decrease as well.  That is                                                                  
already provided in the APA.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 2171                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said Section 13 is new providing for confidentiality                                                               
of the investigative file.  Subsection (b) deals with                                                                           
confidentiality with reference to minors and how to handle that                                                                 
during a meeting.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL said it was his understanding that this is                                                                  
broader than has been used.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said this is the way the commission has been                                                                       
operating, so it would be nice to have the provision.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2194                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said Section 14.20.478, Limitation of liability is                                                                 
new; Section 15 is new; this issue of forged certificates has come                                                              
up twice in the last year.  There is no current power to do                                                                     
anything other than looking through the criminal code and finding                                                               
something that can be utilized.  This section provides similar                                                                  
criminal penalties for persons who work as a teacher without a                                                                  
license.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL noticed they are inserting one of the                                                                       
amendments here.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2246                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said that is to clarify because there was a concern                                                                
that this was making licensed teachers subject to criminal                                                                      
penalties.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL said this section is dealing with teachers who                                                              
may have lied about that.  He asked if this should reflect that in                                                              
saying who should be licensed.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said yes it does say that here.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said the other changes in the rest of the sections are                                                             
all technical changes.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2306                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL commented that it is his understanding that                                                                 
these amendments were something that was brought forward from the                                                               
governor's office.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS. WILLIAMS said yes, the governor's office had requested that                                                                 
these amendments be adopted by the committee, and the commission                                                                
has looked at these and ratified that these are appropriate                                                                     
amendments.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-26, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 2327                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. GREEN said that the commission has gone through this bill and                                                               
the amendments, and they have approved them.  They find them                                                                    
important, and they codified a lot of the things.  Some of the                                                                  
things they need to have in statute, and this clarified a lot of                                                                
those things scattered throughout policies and regulations.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked what further referrals this bill has and                                                                
found out it goes on to the Judiciary Committee.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2217                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON made a motion to move HB 85 from the committee                                                                
with individual recommendations.  There being no objection, HB 85                                                               
moved from the House Health, Education and Social Services                                                                      
Committee without the amendments.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
HB 129 - COLLECTIVE BARGAINING; PRINCIPALS                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2207                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL announced the next order of business as House                                                               
Bill No. 129, "An Act excluding school principals from collectively                                                             
bargaining under the Public Employment Relations Act."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2174                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor,                                                                   
presented HB 129.  He said it adds principals to AS 23.40.256 along                                                             
with superintendents, thus making collective bargaining unavailable                                                             
to both groups of administrators.  The purpose of HB 129 is to keep                                                             
principals clear of collective agreements.  He feels that                                                                       
principals should serve as part of the management team of                                                                       
co-administrators; as one principal commented "not to make but                                                                  
enforce policy."                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that boards are an extension of the                                                                  
public; superintendents are an extension of the board and                                                                       
principals are an extension of the superintendent.  This bill was                                                               
introduced to help keep this chain of administration clear and                                                                  
unbroken.  He compared the relationship of superintendent and                                                                   
principals to that of the governor and commissioners, and he asked                                                              
would the governor have them serve at the pleasure of the governor                                                              
or have them be part of the collective bargaining process.  The                                                                 
school board should set the policy; the school board hires the                                                                  
superintendent to carry out that policy; and principals simply need                                                             
to be part of that management team.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2077                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN read a letter of testimony from Dr. Robert A.                                                               
Lehman, Superintendent, Matanuska-Susitna Borough School District,                                                              
dated March 24, 1999, which states:                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Thank you for this opportunity to testify on House Bill                                                                    
     129.  I am sorry that due to a prior commitment, I am                                                                      
     unable to deliver my comments in person.  I appreciate                                                                     
     Representative Ogan reading this into the record on my                                                                     
     behalf.  I  would like to recognize Scott Ogan for the                                                                     
     foresight and awareness that led to his introduction of                                                                    
     this bill, which would eliminate the unionization of                                                                       
     school principals.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     To be candid, when I first reviewed this legislation I                                                                     
     had mixed feelings about it.  This bill proposes a change                                                                  
     in the way that we do business as educators.  As both an                                                                   
     experienced superintendent and trainer of school                                                                           
     administrators, I felt an obligation to consider how this                                                                  
     legislation would affect the children of Alaska.  Several                                                                  
     hours of contemplating this and discussing it with                                                                         
     colleagues failed to generate one single reason that the                                                                   
     unionization of principals in any way enhances student                                                                     
     achievement.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     In order to validate my findings, I surveyed professional                                                                  
     research on principal unionization.  I found that the                                                                      
     elimination of principal unions and tenure is a national                                                                   
     issue.  Within the past few years several states,                                                                          
     including Georgia, Massachusetts, North Carolina,                                                                          
     Wisconsin and Oregon have eliminated the unionization of                                                                   
     school leaders.  New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania                                                                     
     are moving in this direction.  Is it coincidental that                                                                     
     these are some of the same states that have made the most                                                                  
     progress in moving toward standards based instruction and                                                                  
     accountability?  According to the National Association of                                                                  
     Secondary School Principals, only in 16 states, Alaska                                                                     
     included, do principals receive tenure or equivalent                                                                       
     rights to a continuing contract.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Why is the concept of collective bargaining for                                                                            
     principals on the endangered species list?  There are                                                                      
     several reasons to eliminate unionization at this level.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The first has to do with the core of the principal's job.                                                                  
     Let's make no bones about the fact that schools fail                                                                       
     primarily because of poor teaching.  Textbooks may be                                                                      
     outdated or in short supply, teachers may be underpaid,                                                                    
     classes may be too large and parents may even be                                                                           
     neglectful, but new books, affluent teachers, smaller                                                                      
     classes and attentive parents alone do not insure                                                                          
     students  learning.  We seem to have lost sight of the                                                                     
     main reason for principals.  They exist not to maintain                                                                    
     the status quo, but rather to lead the development of an                                                                   
     effective learning relationship between teachers and                                                                       
     students.  Principals must be empowered to produce                                                                         
     results in this realm and then be held accountable for                                                                     
     those results.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Another reason that principals should be released from                                                                     
     the constraints of unions has to do with the amount of                                                                     
     authority delegated to them.  They should have a great                                                                     
     deal of authority.  They need the freedom to organize                                                                      
     their schools in a way that makes the best use of                                                                          
     available resources for students.  It is up to us as                                                                       
     superintendents to foster the growth of principals and to                                                                  
     determine how much power to delegate to each at any given                                                                  
     time.  Principals will end up with real authority and                                                                      
     respect from the staff and community if they earn it                                                                       
     through their actions.  They cannot command it based on                                                                    
     a union agreement, which by its nature has a ceiling                                                                       
     defined by the limitations of the least qualified                                                                          
     members.  Rather than bargain collectively, they should                                                                    
     actively be set free to compete to the ultimate benefit                                                                    
     of excellence in schooling.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Additionally, most districts employ a management team                                                                      
     operation.  This provides a structure for administrators                                                                   
     to participate in management planning under the                                                                            
     leadership of the superintendent.  The elimination of                                                                      
     unions will allow principals to be included in the team                                                                    
     and to help shape the formulation of policy.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Educational policy has to do with the specific things                                                                      
     that make quality education happen.  School boards set                                                                     
     policy in terms of goals and purposes.  They approve                                                                       
     specific policies drawn by the administrative team.  In                                                                    
     this process, the first hand experience and perspective                                                                    
     of principals is essential to the making of sound                                                                          
     policies.  Good policy is designed from diverse                                                                            
     viewpoints, independent thinking, and objectivity.  It                                                                     
     also considered the minority viewpoint.  Unions foster                                                                     
     single points of view.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The most compelling reason that principals should stay                                                                     
     out of unions is the fact that principals are management.                                                                  
     Success should be measured based on how well the job is                                                                    
     done in comparison to others in similar roles.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     We want principals to continue to have a great influence                                                                   
     on school systems in Alaska.  We need to empower                                                                           
     principals who unashamedly do the job better than anybody                                                                  
     else and who want a reward system based on performance.                                                                    
     These things are the bane and peril of unions.  They also                                                                  
     have little attraction for principals who are interested                                                                   
     only in keeping the lid on and avoiding change.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     The passage of this bill will be a landmark in your                                                                        
     efforts to stop the decline of our system and enable us                                                                    
     to improve the quality of instruction.  As Sitting Bull                                                                    
     said, "It is time to put our minds together and see what                                                                   
     we can do for our children."  The children of Alaska                                                                       
     deserve no less.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he would like to associate himself                                                                     
entirely with those comments.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL said he finds that a very refreshing, honest                                                                
appraisal showing clear delineation between management and                                                                      
teachers.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1836                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN read another letter from the Association of                                                                 
Alaska School Boards which states:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Collective Bargaining for Principals.  The Association of                                                                  
     Alaska School Boards supports House Bill 129, which                                                                        
     exempts principals from collective bargaining under the                                                                    
     Public Employee Relations Act as Class (a)(3) employees                                                                    
     with the unlimited right to strike.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     This bill helps clarify that as educational leaders,                                                                       
     principals are part of the management team.  School                                                                        
     boards do not believe it is appropriate to be negotiating                                                                  
     with their front line people who articulate the district                                                                   
     vision and mission within our communities and help                                                                         
     implement strategies for effective public education.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     We need to empower our principals to act as leaders, and                                                                   
     let them take the risks necessary to organize their                                                                        
     schools using available resources in a way that best                                                                       
     promotes student achievement.  Ties to unions can                                                                          
     sometimes hinder that progress.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     AASB believes that treating principals as management,                                                                      
     while maintaining student contact, classroom instruction,                                                                  
     and evaluating teachers, allows them to help shape the                                                                     
     formulation of policy in a more meaningful way.  Good                                                                      
     policy is designed from diverse viewpoints.  Let's give                                                                    
     principals one more reason to think outside the box, to                                                                    
     do whatever it takes to help improve student performance                                                                   
     in the least restrictive environment.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1716                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TODD HESS, Principal, Baxter Elementary School, testified via                                                                   
teleconference from Anchorage.  He is not in favor of HB 129.  He                                                               
has worked in the education field for over 24 years.  One thing he                                                              
has not seen from his perspective was what the sponsor has                                                                      
characterized unionization of principals; he has seen the process                                                               
of collective bargaining which provides a structure to the process                                                              
that has worked very effectively for the public school systems in                                                               
Alaska.  It lays out expectations, ground rules and individual                                                                  
(indisc).  He does agree that the principals are representatives of                                                             
the superintendent and school board, and they do follow and                                                                     
implement district policy.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1645                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ANDRE' LAYRAL, President, Alaska Association of Secondary School                                                                
Principals, Principal, North Pole Middle School, testified via                                                                  
teleconference from Fairbanks.  He has completed his 25th year as                                                               
an educator in Alaska; the past 22 years have been in Fairbanks.                                                                
He has been a principal the past seven years at North Pole Middle                                                               
School.  This bill adds principals to AS 23.40.250 (6) along with                                                               
superintendents which makes collective bargaining unavailable to                                                                
both groups of administrators.  He stated that currently,                                                                       
superintendents are hired and supervised by elected bodies, and                                                                 
therefore they are not collective.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAYRAL established under AS 23.40.070 (1), it recognizes the                                                                
right of public employees to organize for the purpose of collective                                                             
bargaining.  Under the same statute, it requires "public employers                                                              
to negotiate with and enter into written agreements with employee                                                               
organizations on matters of wages, hours, and other terms and                                                                   
conditions of employment;"  Principals are employed by the district                                                             
so HB 129 fails to recognize this statute.  The purpose of HB 129                                                               
is to keep principals clear of collective bargaining agreements,                                                                
and in effect negating their status of public employees and will                                                                
violate Alaska statute.  Under the same statute, it states "public                                                              
employees have been granted the right to share in the                                                                           
decision-making process affecting wages and working conditions,                                                                 
they have become more responsive and better able to exchange ideas                                                              
and information on operations with their administrators."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAYRAL said currently, school principals are subordinates who                                                               
are evaluated by the superintendent and are not involved in joint                                                               
decision making and are not part of a district office staff;                                                                    
rather, they lead and manage schools which are part of the                                                                      
district.  Under HB 129, principals would lose this voice in                                                                    
determining their conditions of work paving the way for arbitrary                                                               
reassignment, removal from their positions without just cause and                                                               
would have no formal means of appeal of grievances in termination                                                               
nor representation.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAYRAL pointed out that the role of principal is a complex one.                                                             
Not unlike superintendents, they operate in politically charged                                                                 
environments while focusing on student learning, school safety and                                                              
bridging their community expectations for school and district                                                                   
goals, while building partnerships to sustain their efforts at                                                                  
achieving quality in Alaska.  Whereas, a lack of job security                                                                   
ability has a voice and working conditions and no means of                                                                      
appealing decisions which affect their employment will further                                                                  
restrict the ability of school districts to recruit and retain                                                                  
qualified school principals and a market which predicts severe                                                                  
shortages of principals in the United States.  Principals have been                                                             
educational leaders during these frequent changes in                                                                            
superintendents, and they deserve credit for providing the                                                                      
necessary stability in district schools.  The stability of schools                                                              
in Alaska often calls on longevity and commitment of dedicated                                                                  
principals when there is high turnover of superintendents in                                                                    
Alaska.  Nationally, superintendents turn over about every three                                                                
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. LAYRAL concluded that it is so plainly obvious to him that the                                                              
impact of this bill will dramatically affect the quality of                                                                     
education in Alaska that he is surprised that the sponsor cannot                                                                
see it as well.  He hopes the committee will.  He pointed out that                                                              
the timing of this bill is a distraction from their ability to                                                                  
focus on the more serious educational issues before the state                                                                   
following the passage of SB 36, and this causes him to question the                                                             
motives behind sponsoring such a divisive bill at this time.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1441                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KEITH TATON, Principal, Central Middle School of Science, testified                                                             
via teleconference from Anchorage.  He has been in education for 31                                                             
years; 16 years have been in Alaska.  He has served eight years on                                                              
Alaska Board of Principals and now serves on the National                                                                       
Association of Secondary School Principals (NASSP).  In his 16                                                                  
years in the Anchorage School District, he has worked under several                                                             
superintendents.  There has been much better superintendent                                                                     
stability in Anchorage than in many districts across the state.                                                                 
The national average for a superintendent across this country is                                                                
2.2 years.  The number of years for principals in districts far                                                                 
exceeds that.  Part of the reason is collective bargaining.  There                                                              
is a severe shortage of principals in this country, and here in                                                                 
Alaska the problem will only be compounded if principals lose their                                                             
right to collective bargaining.  Times have changed.  Salaries in                                                               
Alaska no longer lead the nation.  In fact, salaries for principals                                                             
in the post populated parts of the state, Kenai, Matanuska-Susitna                                                              
and Anchorage aren't even ranked close to the top when compared to                                                              
other districts.  They should be looking for ways to encourage                                                                  
principals to come and stay in Alaska, not create ways to drive                                                                 
them off.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. TATON reported that according to NASSP, 70 percent of the                                                                   
principals in the United States are now eligible for retirement or                                                              
will be in the next three years.  He asked where are the principals                                                             
going to come from to fill the jobs in Alaska.  The principal                                                                   
provides stability to the district of this state.  The principals                                                               
really do what is best for children, and they do it everyday.  He                                                               
asked if they want turnover of principals like the turnover of                                                                  
superintendents.  He is sure the communities do not want that.                                                                  
They want stability in their schools.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. TATON asked how will they implement standards if there is a                                                                 
constant turnover of principals.  "I can assure you that if you do                                                              
away with collective bargaining in this state, you will see                                                                     
turnover in the principal ranks like you have never seen before.                                                                
Why are superintendents given multi year contracts?  It is because                                                              
they are change agents that sometimes make decisions that in the                                                                
short term are not popular.  We must look at ways of encouraging                                                                
principals not discouraging principals."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. TATON said he called the NASSP office yesterday, and they felt                                                              
there is not one state in the United States that does not provide                                                               
collective bargaining for principals.  Alaska would be the only one                                                             
if this passed.  He has talked to principals across the state, and                                                              
he has yet to find one principal in favor of this bill.  "Do not be                                                             
misled, in closing let me clearly state that I oppose HB 129.                                                                   
Collective bargaining works; has worked well for school districts                                                               
in Alaska and across the nation and should be in place to attract                                                               
and maintain good principals dedicated to providing quality                                                                     
education for our students."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1282                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DON CHICARELL, Principal, Iditarod Elementary School, Professional                                                              
Rights and Responsibilities Chairperson representing Mat-Su                                                                     
Principals Association, Member, Executive Board, Alaska Association                                                             
of Elementary School Principals, testified via teleconference from                                                              
the Matanuska-Susitna (Mat-Su) Legislative Information Office                                                                   
(LIO).  He commented that there is not any money saving features in                                                             
this bill.  He said if they use Dr. Lehman as a resource, in a                                                                  
speech he gave last week at the Wasilla Chamber of Commerce, he                                                                 
informed the public that "when you remove principals from                                                                       
collective bargaining the salaries and benefits for them increase,                                                              
as they did with other administrators out of collective                                                                         
bargaining."  This is going to cost more money for the state in the                                                             
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHICARELL also added that to remove principals from collective                                                              
bargaining and the protections that principals have if they                                                                     
advocate for their school community in order to keep administering                                                              
quality schools, who will be left to advocate for the school                                                                    
communities.  He said the bottom line of this bill is it can be                                                                 
considered really a method of regulating principals' loyalty for                                                                
the top down mandate instead of having school community educators                                                               
advocate for the needs of those schools.  If principals are removed                                                             
from collective bargaining, the protection they have to be able to                                                              
provide open, honest, critical analysis of the decisions that are                                                               
made throughout the state will also be removed.  "If you believe                                                                
Dr. Lehman's information presented in his letter, then why haven't                                                              
the principals in Mat-Su been supported in working outside the box?                                                             
Those words sound good but he's leaving here and we're left to                                                                  
maintain quality schools without him."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1175                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if Mr. Chicarell was the gentleman                                                                    
involved in a grievance that was arbitrated recently.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHICARELL answered that is correct.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if it was a binding arbitration.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHICARELL said that's right.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said they ruled in your [Mr. Chicarell's]                                                                   
favor.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. CHICARELL said that's correct.  He added it was because the                                                                 
administration used the evaluation procedure as a way of                                                                        
retribution for principals speaking out in an open, honest fashion.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1142                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
TIMOTHY DORAN, Principal, Denali Elementary School, testified via                                                               
teleconference from Fairbanks.  He has 18 years of educational                                                                  
experience in Alaska.  He is opposed to HB 129 on several fronts.                                                               
It arbitrarily removes a group of public employees from collective                                                              
bargaining and employment rights; this is unlike superintendents                                                                
who are sole members of their unit.  Principals are building                                                                    
administrators who are not district office administrators, and                                                                  
therefore have a distinctly different role than the other excluded                                                              
persons under this bill.  Principals represent significant                                                                      
consistency in carrying out the educational efforts of the state                                                                
and local district.  As such, they should be assured of a                                                                       
consistency in their employment conditions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DORAN went on to say collective bargaining by principal                                                                     
associations has a solid history of being beneficial to districts,                                                              
principles and education; included under that are teachers,                                                                     
students and parents which should not be tossed aside in this                                                                   
regard.  This bill raises major questions regarding good faith                                                                  
bargaining efforts on the part of both school districts and                                                                     
principal associations which include current negotiating plans and                                                              
expectations of continuing collective bargaining under current                                                                  
contract and establishing understanding.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. DORAN addressed two sponsor statements.  The sponsor statement                                                              
suggests that principals should be excluded if they "not make, but                                                              
enforce policy."  He pointed out that this is the same expectation                                                              
of all school district employees, public employees including                                                                    
teachers in the classroom.  They all share in the same                                                                          
responsibilities, and principals should not be singled out as a                                                                 
group in this regard.  Further, the sponsor statement states that                                                               
"Principals should serve as part of a management team of                                                                        
co-administrators."  The fact is that principals are not                                                                        
district-level decision makers; they are significantly different                                                                
than the superintendent and are merely advisory in influencing                                                                  
school district policy set by the board and district administrative                                                             
regulations set by the superintendent.  Therefore this assumption                                                               
by the sponsor is not reflective of the role of principals and                                                                  
based on this, it underscores the fact that this bill should not                                                                
become law.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. DORAN concluded that the comments read earlier from Dr. Lehman                                                              
and the AASB have several good points; none of which are hindered                                                               
or ruled out by collective bargaining.  They simply need to be                                                                  
implemented.  He strongly opposes this bill as being disruptive to                                                              
a proven process of addressing employment concerns, disruptive to                                                               
a process which provides stability in educational efforts and has                                                               
raised as many questions regarding current contract negotiations                                                                
and employment rights which this amendment to state statute has not                                                             
in any way addressed.  He urged the committee to please defeat this                                                             
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 0971                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SOPHIA MASEWICZ, President, Anchorage Principals Association,                                                                   
Principal, Romig Middle School, testified via teleconference from                                                               
Anchorage.  She has been a teacher and administrator in Anchorage                                                               
for the last 22 years.  She is a representative of 119 association                                                              
members, which is the largest organization representing principals                                                              
in this state.  She spoke against HB 129.  She e-mailed 119                                                                     
principals regarding the feedback on this bill and talked with a                                                                
number of principals on this issue, and none were supportive of                                                                 
this bill.  This bill would essentially eliminate a critical                                                                    
component of the checks and balance system in education.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MASEWICZ commented that principals are in a unique position                                                                 
compared to superintendents, central administrations and board                                                                  
members.  They are on the front line of daily operation of the                                                                  
schools.  They are the instructional leaders, the managers, the                                                                 
problem solvers, and the mediators in situations concerning                                                                     
parents, teachers and central administration.  They are also in the                                                             
position of protecting the rights of others because they have a                                                                 
bird's-eye view and perspective of the situation.  Because                                                                      
principals have been able to collective bargain and negotiate                                                                   
concerns in their contracts, that affects their ability to                                                                      
effectively manage and be the instructional leaders in their                                                                    
schools.  They have protected the rights of children and parents;                                                               
they have been able to make decisions in the best interests of                                                                  
those they truly serve.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS. MASEWICZ said she has been in arbitrations involving teachers                                                               
which the issues often would drastically change principals'                                                                     
abilities to make decisions that would be in the best interest of                                                               
students.  She thinks this bill would be very detrimental to the                                                                
welfare of students and parents, and although they are an                                                                       
association, their purpose and ethics would cause them to make                                                                  
decisions in the best interest.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MS. MASEWICZ concluded that for the many reasons that principals                                                                
separated from NEA over 30 years ago, those similar reasons are the                                                             
ones they should not be aligned today with superintendents, and she                                                             
strongly urged the committee not to support this bill.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0797                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ERIC HENDERSON, Principal, Wasilla Middle School, President, Mat-Su                                                             
Principals Association, testified via teleconference from Mat-Su                                                                
LIO.  He said the Mat-Su Principals Association opposes HB 129.  He                                                             
quoted a couple of Representative Ogan's statements made on March                                                               
5 in a press release when this bill was introduced.  "The public,                                                               
our superintendent and our school boards need a balance between                                                                 
those who are representing collectively and those who are                                                                       
responsible for the day-to-day management.  Parents tell me school                                                              
principals are collectively working their own will outside of                                                                   
district policy.  That disturbs me."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. HENDERSON said if that is indeed the case, and Representative                                                               
Ogan has been getting a lot of complaints, they are baffled why he                                                              
hasn't reported those to the superintendent and the school board.                                                               
This is a citizen's responsibility if principals are acting outside                                                             
the school district policy, those principals need to be reported                                                                
and action needs to be taken.  Actions that can be taken with                                                                   
principals include the PTPC; superintendents can reprimand                                                                      
principals with those regards; and the fact that principals are                                                                 
tenured as a teacher and not as a principal, they have one year                                                                 
contracts, is also another method in which superintendents can                                                                  
remove principals who are not abiding by district policy.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HENDERSON said that collective bargaining offers principals the                                                             
protection to do their job.  This bill would take away that                                                                     
protection and place principals in a position to respond to the                                                                 
political whims of the superintendent, the school board and                                                                     
legislators.  In his tenure of 20 years in the Mat-Su they have                                                                 
gone through eight superintendents.  Each of those administrators                                                               
have been involved in political turmoil, and yet the schools have                                                               
managed to function and provide a quality education program in                                                                  
spite of that political turmoil.  If principals had to respond to                                                               
that political turmoil over the years, he doesn't think they would                                                              
have the stable education system they have now.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0640                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN responded that he has addressed concerns to the                                                             
school board, to the superintendent, to the borough assembly                                                                    
without satisfactory results.  In fact, he got a letter from a                                                                  
school board member on her attorney stationary threatening him with                                                             
litigation.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0592                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KYRA AIZSTRAUTS, Principal, University Park Elementary School,                                                                  
testified via teleconference from Fairbanks.  She has been in                                                                   
education for 14 years and an administrator for four years.  She                                                                
spoke in opposition to HB 129.  As a principal, she believes she                                                                
works as a public employee under the superintendent's direction.                                                                
She believes there is a very clear chain of command and principals                                                              
do not need to be eliminated from a bargaining unit; the chain of                                                               
command would still be very clear.  She reiterated her colleagues'                                                              
previous comments in Mat-Su that they are truly under one year                                                                  
contracts, and that there is no tenure for administrators in this                                                               
state; they are tenured by certified staff as a teacher.  She                                                                   
stated that the stability they provide is because they are a                                                                    
strong, dedicated group of professionals.  She has been an                                                                      
administrator for four years under three superintendents.  She                                                                  
asked the committee to please reconsider passing this house bill                                                                
out of committee.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 0471                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MICHAEL GRAHAM, Assistant Principal, East Anchorage High School,                                                                
Assistant Principal At-Large, Alaska Association of Secondary                                                                   
School Principals, (AASSP), Assistant Principal Representative,                                                                 
Anchorage Principals Association.  He has been an administrator in                                                              
Anchorage for the past five years.  He spoke against HB 129.  He                                                                
noted that most secondary and some elementary principals begin                                                                  
their administrative duties as assistant principals.  Assistant                                                                 
principals do an incredible number of tasks to ensure that schools                                                              
maintain a safe educational atmosphere.  Students, parents,                                                                     
teachers, counselors, coaches, public agencies and community                                                                    
members work together and connect with staff and students in                                                                    
schools.  As both teacher and administrator, he always considered                                                               
himself to be a public employee.  If collective bargaining is taken                                                             
away from the administrators, they will be on their own to bargain                                                              
individual contracts.  This would be divisive and damaging in the                                                               
district where they need to work closely together.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRAHAM said newly appointed assistant principals largely do not                                                             
hold the leverage or standing, and possibly not the experience                                                                  
necessary, to bargain their own contract.  "This is disturbing                                                                  
because I fear that the loss of collective bargaining has kept the                                                              
membership support and fairness it provides will openly be a                                                                    
barrier to attracting top educators to the profession."  He loves                                                               
his job and thinks he is good at it, but he doesn't know if he                                                                  
would have left the collective bargaining contract he had as a                                                                  
teacher if it meant setting out on his own with little protection.                                                              
He is a public employee not an entrepreneur.  Alaska needs to                                                                   
attract top educators to provide the educational leadership                                                                     
necessary for implementing state standards and providing the best                                                               
education possible for the students.  On behalf of himself and the                                                              
other assistant principals in Anchorage, who will at some point                                                                 
probably continue on as principals, he urged the committee to stop                                                              
HB 129 and keep it from moving forward.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0322                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CAROL KANE, Executive Director, Alaska Association of Secondary                                                                 
School Principals (AASSP), testified via teleconference from the                                                                
Mat-Su LIO.  The AASSP represents 235 administrative professionals                                                              
throughout Alaska.  The board of directors of AASSP is opposed to                                                               
HB 129 as it is currently written.  She quoted Dr. Gerald Terazi                                                                
(PH), Executive Director, National Association of Secondary School                                                              
Principals (NASSP), as printed in the recent Newsleader, March 19,                                                              
1999 issue.  She read:                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Education in America, public education in particular, is                                                                   
     at a critical crossroads.  There is a growing frustration                                                                  
     and concern regarding quality of our public schools.  It                                                                   
     is against this backdrop that the drama of school reform                                                                   
     is being played out in our nation's schoolhouses.  I                                                                       
     envision this as an opportune time for NASSP to ensure                                                                     
     that the voice of the principals is heard and respected                                                                    
     in various policy forums driving the engines of full                                                                       
     reform. ...                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The need for greater, more intensive involvement takes on                                                                  
     added significance and education environment where                                                                         
     school-based accountability, state takeover of schools,                                                                    
     reconstitution of schools and vouchers to private and                                                                      
     parochial schools, are among the many issues taking                                                                        
     center stage in the school reform debate.  There must                                                                      
     emerge a recognition that it is the principal of a school                                                                  
     who is the instructional leader, the agents of change and                                                                  
     the manager and facilitator of teaching and learning                                                                       
     process.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     ... It is the principal who is the main architect of the                                                                   
     instructional program serving as a leader, facilitator,                                                                    
     manager staff and resources in the demanding and complex                                                                   
     mission of ensuring equity and excellence for all                                                                          
     children.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. KANE said in legislation where this has been admitted in other                                                              
states, they are now promoting that due process rights for                                                                      
administrators and hearing processes be included in legislation and                                                             
therefore they are clearly against HB 129 and urged the committee                                                               
to ask them for help in anyway to negate this bill.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 99-27, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 0029                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
VERNON MARSHALL, Executive Director, National Education Association                                                             
(NEA)-Alaska, came forward to testify.  He said the NEA-Alaska                                                                  
submitted a written statement in opposition to HB 129.  The NEA-                                                                
Alaska does not represent principals, but they have a great deal of                                                             
concern about the bill.  Once the right to bargain is eliminated,                                                               
it might as well be said they are eliminating collective bargaining                                                             
agreements relative to principals.  They feel that the agreements                                                               
that do exist in school districts provide a standard of employment,                                                             
provide a standard of treatment and they do provide a standard of                                                               
security.  "They are in writing; they work for management; they                                                                 
work against management; they work for labor; they work against                                                                 
labor."  Removing the power that is prescribed under the collective                                                             
bargaining agreement, and they do feel the right to bargain does in                                                             
a sense level that playing field relative to management and labor.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARSHALL said he feels in this case that principals are labor.                                                              
They like to call them managers, but they are in the worst of all                                                               
worlds as indicated in the testimony.  They are at-will employees                                                               
under a single year contract.  Once that contract expires, for the                                                              
most part, they have no rights whatsoever unless those rights are                                                               
prescribed in the collective bargaining agreement.  There is also                                                               
a shift of power from the collective bargaining agreement, and                                                                  
power abhors a vacuum; it is going to be consumed by someone.  That                                                             
someone is very likely to be the superintendent and the board of                                                                
education.  There are relationships relative to superintendents and                                                             
boards of education.  Their question is "'should a principal, in a                                                              
sense, be constrained by the whims and wishes of a superintendent?'                                                             
and we've seen too many instances where ... I think we need a good                                                              
nepotism law in Alaska, which we don't have, and hiring friends and                                                             
relatives, we've seen that activity relative to teachers."  The                                                                 
committee has their statement, and the NEA-Alaska opposes the bill.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked Mr. Marshall how collective bargaining                                                                
enhances student achievement.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0239                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARSHALL said he liked what Sitting Bull had to say:  "It is                                                                
time that we put our minds together and do what we can for                                                                      
children."  Mr. Marshall thinks this is a classic case of a                                                                     
divisive action that is occurring when they ought to be talking                                                                 
about discipline, class size, how they're going to do a better job                                                              
of educating children.  He stated:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Now, how does this help kids?  I think any time that you                                                                   
     have an opportunity to reduce to writing basically the                                                                     
     relationship that would exist between management and                                                                       
     labor I think that does help kids.  I think another thing                                                                  
     that helps children is the fact that principals are                                                                        
     looking at the operation of school systems.  They are on                                                                   
     the line with teachers and those principals should be                                                                      
     given the opportunity to go in there and talk about                                                                        
     schedules and bargain those arrangements.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     I think, unfortunately, collective bargaining is a little                                                                  
     weak.  We don't get in there and talk about bargaining                                                                     
     curriculum, bargaining the length of the day, bargaining                                                                   
     opportunities to deal with discipline.  You know, bargain                                                                  
     some of those critical issues that occur in the                                                                            
     classroom.  We would accept more.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON asked if Mr. Marshall had just said that the                                                                  
bargaining unit ought to bargain the curriculum.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MARSHALL said "I think that's--yeah, definitely within the                                                                  
purview, I think it is critical to a school.  I mean you've got                                                                 
teachers and principals that are working together and they see the                                                              
needs of those children.  They see the needs that you have                                                                      
stipulated relative to state standards."                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said "he has made the points for the bill."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
LEWIS SEARS, Principal, Bartlett High School, testified via                                                                     
teleconference from Anchorage.  He spoke in opposition of HB 129                                                                
because he thinks it is essentially a step in the wrong direction.                                                              
He has been a principal and educator in Anchorage since 1971.  He                                                               
has enjoyed a unique privilege of being able to work with local                                                                 
legislators, superintendents, school boards, the public                                                                         
(indisc--tearing paper) along with staff and making sure that they                                                              
move continuously toward quality education.  Along with that, they                                                              
have had the opportunity to gain administrators directly from the                                                               
teacher ranks in a way to that would ensure their safety and                                                                    
improve their working conditions, if they take on the challenge as                                                              
public school administrator.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. SEARS said he believes HB 129 hurts education overall; he                                                                   
doesn't know what the thought process was that went in to bringing                                                              
this bill forward, but as he reads it, he would say it is not good                                                              
for Alaska.  It is certainly not good for him as he tries to                                                                    
encourage teachers to move into the administrative ranks and carry                                                              
out the wishes and desires of parents, school boards, the general                                                               
public as it relates to their business associates and those people                                                              
who really care about education and the quality of life, as they                                                                
move toward improving the standards in education, not only in                                                                   
Alaska but nationwide.  He urged the committee to let HB 129 die in                                                             
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
FRED GIDDINGS, Principal, Bayshore Elementary, testified via                                                                    
teleconference from Anchorage.  He has been in education as teacher                                                             
and principal for 21 years; he has been in Alaska nearly 40 years.                                                              
He is opposed to HB 129.  He is a line administrator, and what that                                                             
means to him is the policies that come out of school boards and                                                                 
superintendents' offices are enforced by him on the front line with                                                             
students, parents and teachers.  It is absolutely critical in the                                                               
formation of these policies that he has voice at the table and an                                                               
opportunity to express his opinion before that policy becomes                                                                   
final.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. GIDDINGS said ultimately, he and other principals are going to                                                              
be the ones that go forward to their neighborhoods and explain that                                                             
policy.  He believes that healthy organizations thrive when there                                                               
are diverse opinions.  He certainly understands the chain of                                                                    
command; he is a line administrator and the superintendent and the                                                              
school board are his boss.  He will work the policies that they                                                                 
have, but it is absolutely essential, before that policy happens,                                                               
that he gets a chance to say how that will impact the children in                                                               
his neighborhood.  If at his school, he were to decide that there                                                               
was not going to be a student, teacher or parent voice at the                                                                   
table, then his school would not be as dynamic, and the policies                                                                
would not be particularly effective.  It would be him saying this                                                               
is what he wants to do, and he doesn't want to hear any diverse                                                                 
opinions.  That is not how dynamics in organizations thrive.  He is                                                             
absolutely opposed to HB 129.  He doesn't think it is good for                                                                  
kids, teachers or parents.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0690                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARY JOHNSTONE, Principal, Susitna Elementary School, President,                                                                
Alaska Association of Elementary School Principals, testified via                                                               
teleconference via Anchorage.  She stated:                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The executive board of the Alaska Association of                                                                           
     Elementary School Principals opposes HB 129 for the                                                                        
     following reasons.  First of all, the bill is written in                                                                   
     such broad language and encompasses sweeping changes that                                                                  
     delete collective bargaining for principals, it mentioned                                                                  
     nothing of how, when, and if principals will be                                                                            
     recognized as professional employees of the district.                                                                      
     Will principals become at-will employees and be handed                                                                     
     down policy from the superintendent to be carried out in                                                                   
     their schools?  What rights will principals be given?                                                                      
     What happens to the value of participatory relationships                                                                   
     and principal-liaison building between the school                                                                          
     district and school community, or will information only                                                                    
     flow in one direction?                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Even though superintendents are not covered under the                                                                      
     PERA [Public Employees Relations Act], they come into the                                                                  
     state and into new districts and perform under legal,                                                                      
     binding contracts that clearly represent negotiated                                                                        
     benefits and salaries with local school boards.  Singling                                                                  
     out professional school principals who are covered under                                                                   
     PERA and have the right to collective bargaining as                                                                        
     public employees, would be taking away the opportunity                                                                     
     for them to bargain for working conditions, salary and                                                                     
     benefits that superintendents now enjoy.  Shouldn't we                                                                     
     offer the same for principals?                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Research studies show that 50 percent of today's                                                                           
     principals will retire by the year 2002.  Presently there                                                                  
     is a great shortage of qualified candidates for principal                                                                  
     vacancies in the United States, including Alaska.  Two                                                                     
     million teachers will be needed in the next decade to                                                                      
     serve the growing enrollment and a record number of                                                                        
     vacancies as the first baby boomers retire.  (indisc)                                                                      
     three simplifications for school leaders and districts in                                                                  
     terms of identifying and encouraging teachers and other                                                                    
     administrators who have potential to become effective                                                                      
     principals.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Why the shortage of qualified candidates?  Research                                                                        
     suggests that long hours, too much stress, too little pay                                                                  
     are some of the top reasons why the candidate pool has                                                                     
     shrunk.  Attracting and keeping great principals and                                                                       
     encouraging teachers to aspire to become administrative                                                                    
     candidates in light of new standards, assessment and                                                                       
     graduation requirements and now opposition to collective                                                                   
     bargaining (indisc--paper rustling) even further the                                                                       
     recruitment of retention of the principals for the state                                                                   
     of Alaska.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     HB 129 is perpendicular to the trends of leadership for                                                                    
     21st century schools.  Finally I'd like to end with a                                                                      
     quote from Larry Dethat (PH), Leadership and Effective                                                                     
     Schools. "People follow effective leaders because they                                                                     
     share the leader's dreams, not because they are afraid of                                                                  
     what would happen to them if they do not follow."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL closed public testimony.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0931                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said with all due respect to Vernon Marshall,                                                               
he thinks it clarifies the need for the bill.  Mr. Marshall had                                                                 
stated that principals are labor, and Representative Ogan thinks                                                                
they are at a juncture to decide whether principals are labor or                                                                
management.  Another testifier talked about singling out                                                                        
professional principals, and Representative Ogan responded to that                                                              
question:                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Well, professionals to me are management.  We're                                                                           
     professionals and the people who work for us are                                                                           
     professionals; they don't have a union and a collective                                                                    
     bargaining agreement; they serve at our pleasure.  And as                                                                  
     a manager, and I've been a manager and an owner of a                                                                       
     business for a number of years, I need to be able to                                                                       
     manage my employees the way I need to manage them.  I                                                                      
     need to be able to hire and fire at will.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     There was a talk about shift of power.  Mr. Marshall said                                                                  
     a shift of power to the superintendent and the board of                                                                    
     education.  That is exactly my point.  The board of                                                                        
     education should set the policy and have the power.  The                                                                   
     superintendent doesn't set the policy; he simply carries                                                                   
     out the policy set by the school boards.  The principals                                                                   
     need to be subordinate to that.  Under the collective                                                                      
     bargaining process they can't be.  There was talk about                                                                    
     the average time for a superintendent is 2.2 years.  If                                                                    
     you can't manage your team, I think it seriously inhibits                                                                  
     their ability to stay anywhere very long.  I know I                                                                        
     certainly wouldn't want to take the job if my management                                                                   
     team had thumbed their nose at me; I couldn't even give                                                                    
     them an evaluation.  Right or wrong, the superintendent                                                                    
     needs to be able to evaluate his employees.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
      And if it's the perception of the superintendent that                                                                     
     the employee is not doing a good job, that's his role.                                                                     
     To me, to have an evaluation go to arbitration is                                                                          
     ludicrous.  If the superintendent is being vindictive                                                                      
     with somebody for a political agenda, the school board's                                                                   
     responsibility is to recognize that and get rid of the                                                                     
     superintendent.  We have a situation in our district                                                                       
     where the principal association have voted a no                                                                            
     confidence vote for our superintendent.  It's not their                                                                    
     business or their policy to thumb their noses at the                                                                       
     superintendent.  It is the school board's.  If the school                                                                  
     board doesn't have confidence in him, they should get rid                                                                  
     of him.  I feel pretty strongly about the bill as you can                                                                  
     tell but I think there's probably few things we can                                                                        
     do--this bill is probably one of the greatest things we                                                                    
     can do to give the power back to the people.  People                                                                       
     elect the school board, and the school board represents                                                                    
     the people.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Right now, the way we're structured with collective                                                                        
     bargaining for principals, the principals don't have to                                                                    
     be subordinate at all to the school district, to the                                                                       
     administration's policies.  The idea of collective                                                                         
     bargaining for curriculum and length of days and those                                                                     
     kind of things, whoa, anyway that is all I have to say.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 1129                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL said he intends to move the bill out because                                                                
their purview is education policy; it will go on to the Labor and                                                               
Commerce Committee.  To him it is a good policy that the                                                                        
accountability of the school principals be under the elected                                                                    
official which is more closely related to the people; there is more                                                             
direct accountability there.  Once they begin to bargain with a                                                                 
teachers' union, for example, there becomes an allegiance that goes                                                             
beyond, and he thinks it is a little harder to reach.  He                                                                       
recommends that they move this bill along.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER commented that he has no objection to this                                                              
bill moving from this committee, but he does have some questions                                                                
that will have to be answered before he can support it on the                                                                   
floor.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 12:02 p.m. to 12:04 p.m.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1267                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON made a motion to move HB 129 from the committee                                                               
with individual recommendations.  There being no objection, HB 129                                                              
moved from the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing                                                             
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SJR 11-EDUCATION BLOCK GRANTS                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 1299                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN COGHILL announced the next order of business as CSSJR
11 CS for Senate Joint Resolution No. 11(FIN), Urging the Congress                                                              
of the United States to provide federal education funds as a block                                                              
grant to the state.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 1299                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR DAVE DONLEY, Alaska State Legislature, sponsor, said SJR 11                                                             
is sponsored by the Senate Finance Committee.  He said the people                                                               
who have chaired the education budget subcommittees have realized                                                               
it is almost impossible to streamline the federal funding for                                                                   
education programs.  Over the last several years, there has been a                                                              
movement in Congress to do something similar to what has been done                                                              
with welfare, and that is to provide states with block grants, and                                                              
let all the states restructure the programs more efficiently.  That                                                             
legislation passed the U.S. House in the last Congress but didn't                                                               
quite make it through the Senate; it is once again before the                                                                   
Congress, and SJR 11 calls on Congress to pass that legislation and                                                             
to provide block grants for education to the states.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1406                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CO-CHAIRMAN DYSON made a motion to move CSSJR 11(FIN) with                                                                      
individual recommendations.  There being no objection, CSSJR 11                                                                 
moved from the House Health, Education and Social Services Standing                                                             
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1422                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
There being no further business before the committee, the House                                                                 
Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee meeting                                                                
was adjourned at 12:08 p.m.                                                                                                     

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