Legislature(1993 - 1994)

02/17/1994 03:00 PM HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                        February 17, 1994                                      
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
  Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                                
  Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                                     
  Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair                                                  
  Rep. Al Vezey                                                                
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Harley Olberg                                                           
  Rep. Bettye Davis                                                            
  Rep. Irene Nicholia                                                          
  Rep. Tom Brice                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
  *HB 299:  "An Act relating to education programs on                          
            consumption of alcohol and to revocation of a                      
            driver's license for illegal consumption of                        
            alcohol; and providing for an effective date."                     
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
  *HB 417:  "An Act relating to the possession of deadly                       
            weapons within the grounds of or on the parking                    
            lot of preschools, elementary, junior high, and                    
            secondary schools; and relating to school lockers                  
            and other containers provided in a public or                       
            private school by the school or the school                         
            HEARD AND HELD                                                     
  *HB 418:  "An Act extending the termination fate of the                      
            Board of Parole; and providing for and effective                   
            PASSED OUT OF COMMITTEE                                            
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
  SAM RUSSELL, Student                                                         
  C/O Juneau/Douglas High School                                               
  10014 Crazy Horse Dr.                                                        
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 463-1900                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of CSHB 299                        
  MARGOT KNUTH                                                                 
  Assistant Attorney General                                                   
  Department of Law                                                            
  P.O. Box 110300                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-4049                                                       
  Position Statement:  Answered legal questions on CSHB 299                    
  KAI MORRISON, Student                                                        
  Juneau/Douglas High School                                                   
  10014 Crazy Horse Dr.                                                        
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 463-1900                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of CSHB 299                        
  JUANITA HENSLEY                                                              
  Chief of Driver Services                                                     
  Division of Motor Vehicles                                                   
  Department of Public Safety                                                  
  P.O. Box 20020                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99802-0020                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 225-4335                                                       
  Position Statement:  Answered questions on CSHB 299                          
  ALISHA HECK, Student                                                         
  Juneau/Douglas High School                                                   
  10014 Crazy Horse Dr.                                                        
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 463-1900                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of CSHB 299                        
  JESSE GEMMELL, Student                                                       
  Juneau/Douglas High School                                                   
  10014 Crazy Horse Dr.                                                        
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 463-1900                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of CSHB 299                        
  VERNON MARSHALL, Executive Director                                          
  National Education Association/Alaska                                        
  114 Second St.                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 586-3090                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of CSHB 299                        
  JAIME MARKS, Representative                                                  
  National Council on Alcoholism/Juneau                                        
  211 4th St.                                                                  
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 463-3755                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of CSHB 299                        
  JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Attorney                                                    
  Legislative Legal Counsel                                                    
  Legislative Affairs Agency                                                   
  130 Seward St.                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 465-2450                                                       
  Position Statement:  Answered legal questions on CSHB 417                    
  BILL CRAIG, Interim President                                                
  Alaska Native Blind                                                          
  613 Degroff St.                                                              
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 747-5917                                                       
  Position Statement:  Asked questions on CSHB 417                             
  NANNETTE GAY, Intern                                                         
  Rep. Bettye Davis                                                            
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 465-3875                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in support of HB 418                          
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
  BILL:  HB 299                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) TOOHEY,Bunde,Mulder                            
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  05/06/93      1664    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  05/06/93      1664    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  02/17/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  BILL:  HB 417                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) BUNDE                                          
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/31/94      2205    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/31/94      2205    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY                                   
  02/17/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  BILL:  HB 418                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: EXTEND BOARD OF PAROLE                                          
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) B.DAVIS                                        
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/31/94      2205    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/31/94      2205    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  02/17/94              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
  TAPE 94-23, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:05 p.m.,                        
  indicated that there was not a quorum present, and said roll                 
  would be taken further along into the meeting.  He announced                 
  the calendar and brought CSHB 299 to the table.                              
  CSHB 299:  "An Act relating to revocation of a driver's                      
  license for illegal possession or use of a controlled                        
  substance or illegal possession or consumption of alcohol;                   
  and providing for an effective date."                                        
  Number 044                                                                   
  REP. CYNTHIA TOOHEY, Prime Sponsor of HB 299, stated that a                  
  proposed committee substitute (CS) had been drafted and                      
  requested to have the CS adopted as a working draft.  She                    
  indicated there was not a quorum present.                                    
  REP. TOOHEY stated that recent data from the National                        
  Highway Traffic Safety Administration indicates the alcohol                  
  fatality rate for high school students is nearly twice as                    
  high than drivers 25 years of age and older.  She further                    
  stated that the rate is nearly three times as high for 18-20                 
  year olds.  She stressed that the consumption of alcohol or                  
  drugs can severely impair the ability of the driver to drive                 
  responsibly.  She said that driving is a privilege and that                  
  loss of the privilege is a powerful deterrent to drugs or                    
  alcohol use or possession.  She felt legislation would                       
  provide a strong incentive for children to say no.  She also                 
  said the proposal would positively reinforce those youths                    
  who are alcohol and drug free by maintaining their                           
  eligibility.  She said the proposed legislation is known as                  
  "use it/lose it."                                                            
  REP. TOOHEY asserted that a minor who is old enough to have                  
  a permit or license would lose that privilege if the minor                   
  possessed, used, or consumed a controlled substance or                       
  alcohol.  She said the proposal is supported by the                          
  Department of Public Safety (DPS), the Alaska Medical                        
  Association, the Alaska Council on Prevention of Alcohol and                 
  Drug Abuse, Alaskans for Drug Free Youths, and the Alaska                    
  Association of the Chief of Police.                                          
  REP. TOOHEY explained that there is a cost to DPS, but the                   
  revenues generated by the implementation of the proposal                     
  would be offset and a positive revenue stream is                             
  anticipated.  She also said that the program would enable                    
  the state to access additional federal funds.                                
  REP. TOOHEY said that the Department of Law (DOL) said that                  
  there would be a zero fiscal note.  She maintained that if                   
  the proposal achieves its intention, the savings of lives                    
  and the savings of alcohol and drug treatment costs could be                 
  Number 174                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE indicated that there were witnesses present from                 
  Juneau/Douglas High School and asked for the first witness.                  
  Number 199                                                                   
  SAM RUSSELL, Student, Juneau/Douglas High School, testified                  
  in support of CSHB 299.  He stated that the proposal was a                   
  very good idea.  He did say, however, that the wording of                    
  the proposal is unclear and would leave a lot to the                         
  judgement of a police officer.  He then asked what the                       
  definition of probable cause is.                                             
  Number 233                                                                   
  MARGOT KNUTH, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law,                 
  answered legal questions on CSHB 299.  She stated that                       
  probable cause is a recognized legal standard that requires                  
  that a police officer have evidence available that                           
  indicates, more likely than not, that the violation has                      
  occurred.  The violation would be subject to review by the                   
  courts, who would use the standard and substitute their own                  
  judgement for the police officers, and then agree or                         
  disagree that there was probable cause.                                      
  Number 260                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE commented that if a police officer makes a                       
  judgement based on probable cause that is incorrect, the                     
  case would be thrown out of court.                                           
  MS. KNUTH agreed.                                                            
  SAM RUSSELL indicated that the words "possessed, used, and                   
  consumed" are used in the past tense and questioned what                     
  time frame was indicated.  He also asked, if a neighbor was                  
  to call the police and report the suspicion of minors                        
  consuming alcohol in the house across the street, would that                 
  be enough evidence of probable cause for a police officer to                 
  make an arrest.                                                              
  Number 322                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE noted for the record that at 3:14 p.m. a quorum                  
  was present and indicated that Reps. Toohey, Brice,                          
  Nicholia, Bettye Davis, Gary Davis and himself (Rep. Bunde)                  
  were present.                                                                
  CHAIR BUNDE, for clarification, asked if the terms being                     
  discussed were well defined by law.                                          
  Number 345                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said yes, and further stated that the                              
  administrative revocation statute as proposed begins:  "If a                 
  peace officer has probable cause based on personal                           
  observation..."  She said that line requires the officer to                  
  actually observe enough to believe the offense has been                      
  committed.  To only see suspicious conduct would not be                      
  MS. KNUTH stated that the odor of alcohol on a juvenile's                    
  breath would be enough evidence for probable cause.  She                     
  said the requirement of personal observation also gives a                    
  "time back" time frame.  She explained that usually no more                  
  than a certain amount of hours could pass after the offense                  
  is committed and the time frame would not go back weeks or                   
  months or years.                                                             
  Number 393                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE said the proposal was a protective measure and                   
  it was not his intention that any legal rights be taken                      
  away.  He further stated that youths should have the same                    
  legal rights as adults.                                                      
  Number 422                                                                   
  REP. G. DAVIS made a motion to adopt the CS for HB 299 as a                  
  working draft.                                                               
  Number 425                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objection, stated that CSHB 299 had                  
  been adopted as the working draft.                                           
  Number 437                                                                   
  SAM RUSSELL reiterated his support for CSHB 299.                             
  Number 462                                                                   
  KAI MORRISON, Student, Juneau/Douglas High School, testified                 
  in support of CSHB 299.  He stated that he was somewhat                      
  unclear as to the statutes involved in the proposal.                         
  CHAIR BUNDE maintained that the statutes would be made                       
  available to the students the following day.                                 
  KAI MORRISON asked, if a minor does not have a license and                   
  is found to be in possession of drugs or alcohol, would the                  
  right to obtain a license be withheld for the same period as                 
  those minors who do have a license?                                          
  Number 517                                                                   
  JUANITA HENSLEY, Chief, Driver Services, Division of Motor                   
  Vehicles, Department of Public Safety, answered questions on                 
  CSHB 299.  She stated that driving is a privilege in the                     
  state Alaska; it is not a right.  It is an earned privilege                  
  obtained by obeying the laws of the state.  She stated that                  
  if a minor does not have a license, the privilege to obtain                  
  a license is revoked for the same period of time as a person                 
  who has a license.  She explained that if an individual is                   
  charged with minor consuming, and the police officer had                     
  probable cause, the license would be revoked through the                     
  administrative process.  She said the first offense lasts                    
  for 90 days from the date that the officer made the                          
  determination, or from the date prescribed by law, seven                     
  days from the initial charge.                                                
  Number 548                                                                   
  KAI MORRISON asked if an administrative hearing must be held                 
  in the same town that the violation occurred in.                             
  Number 559                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY stated that the administrative hearing could be                  
  conducted over the phone.                                                    
  Number 593                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if Kai Morrison was in support or                          
  opposition of CSHB 299.                                                      
  Number 596                                                                   
  KAI MORRISON said he supports CSHB 299.                                      
  Number 608                                                                   
  ALISHA HECK, Student, Juneau/Douglas High School, testified                  
  in support of CSHB 299.  She asked how minors, whose parents                 
  will not let their children obtain permits or licenses,                      
  would be affected by the proposal.  She explained that there                 
  would be nothing to take away if the minor was not going to                  
  be allowed to obtain a permit or a license.                                  
  Number 550                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY said if an administrative hearing is not                         
  requested, the privilege to drive or obtain a license would                  
  be revoked, effective the eighth day following the initial                   
  charge.  She said that it would not start the day a person                   
  turns eighteen years of age.                                                 
  Number 674                                                                   
  ALISHA HECK stated that there would be nothing to take away                  
  in that time period if the parents did not allow them to                     
  obtain a permit or license.                                                  
  Number 683                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY said the proposal would prevent the minor from                   
  obtaining a driver's license, and if they had a driver's                     
  license, it would be revoked.                                                
  Number 689                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE interjected that in the event the parents change                 
  their minds, the proposal would affect the minor.                            
  Number 696                                                                   
  REP. TOOHEY asked how the proposal would apply to the minor                  
  who then turns 18 years of age.                                              
  Number 705                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY replied that there is a seven day grace period                   
  from the initial notice when the officer gave the minor the                  
  notice (called a notice in order of revocation).  The                        
  revocation would actually start on the eighth day, unless                    
  the minor requests an administrative hearing.  She further                   
  stated that if a minor comes in to apply on their 18                         
  birthday, the period of revocation would be over.                            
  Number 729                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE interjected that the violation does not remain                   
  in suspended animation.                                                      
  Number 737                                                                   
  ALISHA HECK reiterated that nothing would be taken away if                   
  the parents do not allow the children to obtain a permit or                  
  license, therefore there is no lesson taught.                                
  Number 747                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE stated that the same circumstance applies to the                 
  minor who is too young to acquire a permit.  He agreed that                  
  the legislation cannot take anything away in those                           
  circumstances, but said circumstance often change quickly.                   
  Number 759                                                                   
  ALISHA HECK indicated under Section 1, line 3, it specifies                  
  youthful drivers or teen drivers and felt that the section                   
  could apply to anyone driving under the influence.  She said                 
  if the words youthful and teenager were deleted, the                         
  statement still would hold true.                                             
  Number 781                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE commented that motor vehicle safety statistics                   
  indicate that young people are killed more often in motor                    
  vehicle accidents, more so than "drunk old people."                          
  Number 786                                                                   
  ALISHA HECK maintained that the language could be removed                    
  because the concept did not apply only to youths.                            
  Number 789                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE explained that the focus of the legislation                      
  addresses teenage drivers.  He felt that the proposal was                    
  not intended to be prejudiced against teenagers.                             
  REP. TOOHEY stated that the safety administration indicates                  
  that among high school aged drivers, the alcohol fatality                    
  rate is nearly twice as high as for that of 25 year old                      
  drivers.  She said the proposal specifically addresses                       
  youthful drinking.                                                           
  Number 816                                                                   
  ALISHA HECK said she supported CSHB 299 but felt the wording                 
  could be more clear.                                                         
  Number 822                                                                   
  REP. G. DAVIS commented that most parents who already deny                   
  their children the privilege of obtaining a permit or                        
  license would probably impose some type of further                           
  restrictions should their children be charged with an                        
  alcohol or drug related offense.                                             
  Number 845                                                                   
  REP. BRICE asked if the revocation takes place                               
  Number 853                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY stated that the revocation would take place                      
  automatically on the eighth day following the initial                        
  charge, unless the minor requests an administrative review.                  
  Number 861                                                                   
  REP. BRICE asked what the offense would be for individuals                   
  between 18 and 21 years of age.                                              
  Number 874                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY said the issue is addressed within CSHB 299.                     
  She said if a person is in need of a driver's license to                     
  earn a livelihood, they can request, through the Department                  
  of Public Safety, a limited work license.  She referred to                   
  the provision on page 3, lines 16-18.                                        
  Number 899                                                                   
  JESSE GEMMELL, Student, Juneau/Douglas High School,                          
  testified in support of CSHB 299.  She asked why the seven                   
  day grace period is provided in the proposal.                                
  Number 908                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY said the provision allows the minor to follow                    
  their due process rights.  She stated that the same                          
  provision is included in the Driving While Under the                         
  Influence (DWI) statute.                                                     
  Number 939                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Jesse Gammell in what capacity she                         
  represents Juneau/Douglas High School.                                       
  Number 940                                                                   
  JESSE GEMMELL answered that she is a member of the Natural                   
  Helpers group.                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Jesse Gemmell if she was in support or                     
  opposition to CSHB 299.                                                      
  Number 947                                                                   
  JESSE GEMMELL replied that she was in support of CSHB 299.                   
  Number 955                                                                   
  VERNON MARSHALL, Executive Director, National Education                      
  Association/Alaska, testified in support of CSHB 299.  He                    
  expressed concern that if a child is helping to support the                  
  family unit and that child's license is revoked, the impact                  
  may be extreme on the entire family.  He said it was his                     
  hope that a hearing officer would take that into                             
  consideration when reviewing the case.                                       
  Number 986                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY said that the officer can take that into                         
  Number 994                                                                   
  MR. MARSHALL stated another concern as being the use of                      
  education along with revocation.  He noticed that in AS                      
  28.15.201 there is reference to enrollment and compliance                    
  with alcohol treatment programs when appropriate.  He                        
  encouraged the committee to consider making some form of                     
  treatment a provision in the proposal.  He also indicated                    
  that the CS did not contain the original provision of a                      
  continuing education program.   He assumed that the programs                 
  are already being done and that is why it is not in the CS.                  
  If indeed the programs were not available, Mr. Marshall                      
  strongly urged the committee to make that a provision in the                 
  CS.  He felt it would help families and prevent the                          
  possibility of repeat offenders in the future.                               
  Number 030                                                                   
  REP. TOOHEY indicated that on page 2, line 1, was a                          
  provision that would allow schools to conduct educational                    
  programs to teach youths about the dangers of drinking or                    
  using controlled substances and driving.                                     
  Number 036                                                                   
  REP. BRICE said, to his understanding, what was read would                   
  not have power of statute as it would in the findings of the                 
  legislation.  He asked Rep. Toohey if she would be amenable                  
  to making a reference to that in part of the administrative                  
  Number 046                                                                   
  REP. TOOHEY did not know the answer.                                         
  Number 053                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE clarified by saying part of the penalty would be                 
  to attend some type of alcohol counselling.                                  
  Number 056                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY said that issue could be provided for in the                     
  bill.  She said that any time a license is revoked for                       
  drinking and driving, the individual must show evidence of                   
  completion of an alcohol treatment program.                                  
  Number 068                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if the expense of the program would be the                 
  responsibility of the driver.                                                
  Number 071                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY answered yes.                                                    
  Number 072                                                                   
  REP. TOOHEY said she could support that provision if most                    
  treatment did not cost $1000 per day.  She said that                         
  provision could kill the bill.  She felt the wording should                  
  urge the joining of a twelve step program, such as                           
  Alcoholics Anonymous or Alateen, which cost nothing to                       
  Number 086                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY stated there is a program through the Alcohol                    
  Safety Action program and other programs that are certified                  
  through the Division of Motor Vehicles that are eight hour                   
  alcohol information schools.  She said the average cost is                   
  between $20.00 and $40.00.                                                   
  Number 102                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE said there is a difference between residential                   
  commitment and alcohol awareness programs.  He suggested                     
  that Rep. Toohey craft an amendment while further testimony                  
  is taken.                                                                    
  Number 117                                                                   
  KAI MORRISON stated that his school already has a health                     
  program and questioned if that program would be considered                   
  an alcohol awareness program as specified in CSHB 299.                       
  Number 137                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE said it was his understanding that those types                   
  of classes would be included in the purview of the                           
  TAPE 94-23, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  JAIME MARKS, Representative, National Council on                             
  Alcoholism/Juneau, testified in support of CSHB 299.  He                     
  also supported mandatory education along with revocation.                    
  Number 027                                                                   
  SAM RUSSELL stated that his school currently has a Drug                      
  Abuse Resistance Education (DARE) program and asked if it                    
  would qualify under the guidelines in the proposal.                          
  CHAIR BUNDE said it was his feeling that the decision would                  
  be made by the administrative hearing officer as to what                     
  programs qualify.                                                            
  REP. BRICE suggested that perhaps some guidance be given                     
  within the amendment.                                                        
  Number 076                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE stated that the language should be fairly broad                  
  as the DARE program may be cut next year.                                    
  Number 080                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY stated that the DARE program can be certified                    
  through the Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV).  She explained                 
  that once the program is certified, it is added to the list                  
  of available programs.                                                       
  Number 106                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY stated that DPS supports the CS for HB 299.  She                 
  felt that CSHB 299 would save lives of youths and future                     
  leaders by reducing the number of injuries and fatal                         
  accidents.  According to the National Highway Traffic Safety                 
  Administration, she said, drivers between 16 and 20 years                    
  old comprised 7.4% of the nation's population in 1991 and                    
  were involved in 15.4% of fatal motor vehicle accidents.                     
  She said that 6630 youths between ages 15 through 20 died in                 
  motor vehicle accidents.  She further stated that in                         
  addition to alcohol consumption, other high risk factors are                 
  speeding and inadequate use of seatbelts.  She felt the                      
  revocation of a driver's license would serve as a deterrent                  
  to consuming or being in possession of illegal substances.                   
  MS. HENSLEY stated that there would be a fiscal cost, but                    
  that the costs would be offset by revenues taken in by the                   
  state.  She said the Division of Family and Youth Services                   
  (DFYS) reported that 1200 youths between the ages of 14 and                  
  17 are referred to their agency annually by police                           
  authorities for alcohol and drug offenses.  She said that                    
  approximately 1300 persons between 18 and 20 were arrested                   
  and charged with drug and alcohol offenses in 1992.  She                     
  projected the revocation of 2500 licenses in the first                       
  operating year.  She said, due to the process of revocations                 
  and process of due process, the DMV would request one full                   
  time driver improvement hearing officer and two full time                    
  motor vehicle representatives.  She said the cost would be                   
  $120,100.  She also stated that if the license applicant is                  
  under 18 years of age, a parent must sign consent for the                    
  license.  She expected 90% of revoked licenses to reinstate,                 
  which would result in $225,000 of revenue.  She indicated                    
  that the first year's projected operating cost would be                      
  $188,000, the second year $143,00, and revenues would remain                 
  at $225,000.  She said that hopefully CSHB 299 would lower                   
  Number 302                                                                   
  ALISHA HECK asked, if a person is over 18 years of age, is                   
  that person considered an adult?                                             
  CHAIR BUNDE answered yes, but the person is not old enough                   
  to drink.                                                                    
  ALISHA HECK felt the wording should be better defined.                       
  CHAIR BUNDE stated that he did not have a fiscal note in his                 
  MS. HENSLEY stated that DPS could not provide the fiscal                     
  note until the CS was adopted.  She said she would obtain                    
  the fiscal note immediately after the bill passes out of                     
  Number 375                                                                   
  MS. HENSLEY reminded Chair Bunde that the bill would be                      
  referred to Judiciary.  She then stated that under page 3,                   
  line 18, the sentence, "If a person's driver's license,                      
  permit, or privilege to obtain a license is revoked (under                   
  this section), the person's license or permit may not be                     
  issued or reinstated until the person demonstrates                           
  compliance with the terms of AS 28.15.211 (d)."                              
  Number 467                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if the committee was comfortable with the                  
  amendment.  After some discussion, Chair Bunde asked for a                   
  Number 478                                                                   
  REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to adopt the amendment for                       
  CSHB 299.                                                                    
  Number 480                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objections, stated that CSHB 299 as                  
  amended was before the committee.  He then asked the                         
  pleasure of the committee.                                                   
  Number 487                                                                   
  REP. BRICE made a motion to move CSHB 299 as amended out of                  
  committee with anticipated fiscal note to Judiciary, the                     
  next committee of referral.                                                  
  Number 494                                                                   
  CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no objections, stated that the bill was                 
  so moved.  He then charged the students with the                             
  responsibility of sitting on his side of the table within                    
  the next 20 to 30 years.                                                     
  Number 552                                                                   
  (NOTE:  Rep. Toohey assumed the position of Chair for the                    
  remainder of the meeting.)                                                   
  CHAIR TOOHEY brought HB 417 to the table.                                    
  HB 417 - POSSESSION OF FIREARMS IN SCHOOL LOCKERS                            
  Number 556                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE stated that HB 417 would give schools the                         
  statutory authority to define when lockers should be                         
  searched.  He stated that Section 2 provides that a two week                 
  notice or a perpetual notice must be posted if lockers are                   
  going to be searched, thereby the student's right to privacy                 
  is reasonably protected.  He then mentioned that San Diego,                  
  California, eliminated school lockers entirely, which lead                   
  to a large reduction in violence on campuses.  He said he                    
  had a CS for HB 417 and asked that it be adopted.                            
  Number 629                                                                   
  REP. B. DAVIS made a motion to adopt the CS for HB 417.                      
  Number 631                                                                   
  CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, stated that the                         
  CSHB 417 was adopted as the working draft.                                   
  Number 640                                                                   
  REP. BRICE stated that it is a greater offense to have a                     
  pair of brass knuckles on your person than it is to have a                   
  gun in school.  He wondered if that issue could be addressed                 
  in the bill.                                                                 
  Number 658                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE stated that AS 11.61.220 indicates that it is                     
  currently against the law to have guns in school lockers and                 
  that Section 1 in the CS amends the language to say "deadly                  
  weapon."  He then said that deadly weapon means:  "Any                       
  firearm or anything designed and capable of causing death or                 
  serious physical injury, including a knife, axe, club, metal                 
  knuckles, or explosives."                                                    
  Number 701                                                                   
  JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Attorney, Legislative Legal Counsel,                        
  Legislative Affairs Agency, answered legal questions                         
  pertaining to CSHB 417.  He stated that it is currently a                    
  crime, in the fourth degree, to possess, manufacture,                        
  transport, sell, or transfer metal knuckles, and is a Class                  
  A misdemeanor.   He then stated that when there are weapons                  
  involved in a fifth degree crime, possession of a firearm,                   
  or any other deadly weapon that is on school grounds, it                     
  becomes a Class B misdemeanor.  He said the definition of                    
  deadly weapon does include metal knuckles.  Mr. Luck further                 
  stated that the provision dealing with school grounds was                    
  enacted in 1990.  The provision for metal knuckles has been                  
  around since the criminal code was revised.                                  
  Number 730                                                                   
  REP. BRICE asked if HB 417 brought both crimes up to the                     
  same level of Class A misdemeanor.                                           
  Number 734                                                                   
  MR. LUCKHAUPT answered that AS 11.61.210 would still outlaw                  
  the possession of metal knuckles and make it a Class A                       
  misdemeanor.  He then said AS 11.61.220 and the amendment to                 
  that provision would close a loophole pertaining to the                      
  possession of deadly weapons on school grounds.  He                          
  explained that when the legislature in 1990 proscribed the                   
  possession of firearms and defensive weapons on school                       
  grounds, it allowed for the possession of deadly weapons.                    
  He said that the problem is that possession of metal                         
  knuckles is a Class A misdemeanor, and the possession of                     
  metal knuckles on school grounds is a Class B misdemeanor.                   
  Number 774                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE stated that the legislation focuses on school                     
  grounds as opposed to someone possessing metal knuckles in a                 
  bar.  He said that the previous legislature decided that                     
  people possessing deadly weapons on school grounds were more                 
  likely to be children, therefore warranting a Class B                        
  misdemeanor rather than a Class A.                                           
  Number 786                                                                   
  REP. BRICE asked if CSHB 417 would bring the violation up to                 
  a Class A misdemeanor.                                                       
  Number 787                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE said no.  He said it makes metal knuckles equal                   
  to having a gun on school grounds, which is a Class B                        
  Number 790                                                                   
  REP. BRICE clarified by saying that the legislation would                    
  make possession of metal knuckles a Class B misdemeanor.                     
  Number 793                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE indicated that knuckles were being made a Class B                 
  misdemeanor on school grounds.                                               
  Number 795                                                                   
  REP. BRICE asked if deadly weapons on school grounds could                   
  be brought up to a Class A misdemeanor.                                      
  Number 812                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE said that the offenses were chosen to be Class B                  
  misdemeanors because the offenders are more likely to be                     
  children.  He then speculated that perhaps it should be a                    
  Class A misdemeanor.  He felt that as long as knuckles and                   
  other deadly weapons are equal to the severity of having a                   
  firearm on school grounds, he was comfortable with the                       
  Number 837                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH stated on behalf of the administration that the                    
  possession of guns on school grounds should be a felony.                     
  She explained that currently it is such a light offense that                 
  there is no flexibility within the system to deal with the                   
  problem.  She said a maximum of 90 days is available for the                 
  criminal offense.  She felt that the message to children is                  
  "this is the least of all possible serious offenses, when                    
  it's the most lethal of all possible circumstances."  She                    
  said the proposal could be a great vehicle for attacking the                 
  REP. BUNDE said that he was not opposed to possibly changing                 
  the misdemeanor class and was interested in hearing further                  
  Number 930                                                                   
  MR. MARSHALL testified in support of CSHB 417 as amended.                    
  He indicated that page 3, lines 2-3, specifies the grounds                   
  of the parking lot of a private or public school.  He asked                  
  the committee to consider adding school sponsored events                     
  under Section 2.                                                             
  REP. BUNDE referred to lines 4-6 that state, "...without                     
  permission of the chief administrative officer of the school                 
  or district..."                                                              
  Number 956                                                                   
  MR. MARSHALL suggested that perhaps weapons should be                        
  restricted relative to school sponsored events or in                         
  vicinity to school sponsored events.  He asked the committee                 
  to consider a provision regarding searches of school lockers                 
  that would include language that identifies a person (page                   
  3, line 29-30) has reasonable cause to believe deadly                        
  weapons are likely to be found as a result of a locker                       
  Number 002                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE said he would be resistant to that type of                        
  change, indicating that a police officer may be searching                    
  for something other than a deadly weapon, e.g., contraband.                  
  Number 009                                                                   
  MR. MARSHALL suggested that a standard may want to be set so                 
  the administrator would be operating with authority relative                 
  to statute.                                                                  
  TAPE 94-24, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
  REP. BRICE indicated what he thought to be a great                           
  difference between reasonable and probable cause.                            
  Number 034                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked if Rep. Brice was referring to page 2,                      
  Section C.  He stated that nothing in the section limits the                 
  ability of the police officer and other appropriate people                   
  to act in compliance with local, state, and federal law.                     
  Number 058                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH stated that she saw no reason to change Section C                  
  of the proposal.  She maintained that the purpose of the                     
  subsection was to clarify that police officers still have                    
  the right to conduct a search.                                               
  Number 092                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE clarified the meaning of a school sponsored                       
  event.  He related that football games in Anchorage are                      
  played on city property, not on campus, and the concern is                   
  not to have deadly weapons allowed at school sponsored                       
  events.  He said there are employees, students, and adults                   
  at school sponsored events, and he felt the scope of the                     
  legislation would not provide for all those people.                          
  Number 126                                                                   
  CHAIR TOOHEY stated that the legislation could not make the                  
  entire world safe.                                                           
  Number 142                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH asserted that the proposal has identifiable,                       
  physical boundaries.                                                         
  REP. G. DAVIS said that school regulations within a manual                   
  carry over to school sponsored events.  He felt that the                     
  legislation should carry over to school sponsored events.                    
  Number 166                                                                   
  CHAIR TOOHEY, for clarification, asked if the legislation                    
  was focusing on students or bystanders at a school sponsored                 
  Number 174                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE related a scenario of a man driving into Mulcahey                 
  Park in Anchorage to change his tire while a high school                     
  football game is being played.  He has a gun rack in his                     
  truck and is anticipating that he will go hunting the next                   
  day.  Chair Bunde said in that instance there would be a                     
  boundary problem.                                                            
  Number 204                                                                   
  REP. BRICE said that there are rivals between various groups                 
  of students in Fairbanks.  He expressed concern that youths                  
  are becoming more violent, and perhaps a youth who is found                  
  carrying a concealed weapon should be made to "do time for                   
  the crime."  He felt there should be a provision that makes                  
  the offense as serious as being in possession of a concealed                 
  weapon in school.                                                            
  Number 250                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE said there may be an instance where an adult is                   
  carrying a gun for protection as he cuts through the back of                 
  the stands of a football field on his way to work.  He                       
  questioned if the man should be guilty of an offense.                        
  Number 263                                                                   
  REP. BRICE said no.                                                          
  REP. BUNDE said, according to what Rep. Brice was saying,                    
  the man would be guilty.                                                     
  Number 269                                                                   
  REP. BRICE asked how his concerns could be legally addressed                 
  within the proposal.                                                         
  Number 274                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said that the answer to both scenarios is gun                      
  registration.  She said that it's difficult to say to                        
  children on one hand that they can't do something and turn                   
  around and have different rules for adults.  She said that a                 
  law can be created for a crime that is age related.                          
  Number 317                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked if the verbiage "participating in a school                  
  event" would address the aforementioned concerns.  He said                   
  that participating would mean that a person is actively                      
  involved in the event, and there would be a clear boundary.                  
  Number 334                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said yes it would solve the problem as to who are                  
  the pool of violators.  Although, she said, there is still a                 
  problem of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that a person                   
  was actually participating in a school sponsored event.                      
  Number 359                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE referred to page 2, line 4, and said that the                     
  phrase, "or participating in a school sponsored event                        
  without the permission of the chief administrative officer,"                 
  could be added at the end of the sentence.                                   
  Number 386                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said that as a prosecutor, she was comfortable                     
  with that language and she could establish to a jury's                       
  satisfaction whether or not a person was participating at a                  
  school sponsored event or not.  She questioned whether there                 
  needed to be a definition of "participating."                                
  Number 403                                                                   
  BILL CRAIG, Interim President, Alaska Native Blind, said                     
  there are laws concerning adults carrying concealed weapons,                 
  and he thought the prior discussion was irrelevant.  He said                 
  that adults participating in a school event would already be                 
  Number 425                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said that most often that the proposed law would                   
  come into effect when discerning whether it is appropriate                   
  for the weapon to be in a case or in a trunk.                                
  Number 452                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE indicated that the weapon would have to be                        
  unloaded.  He said if it is loaded, it would not be allowed                  
  in a trunk or gun case.                                                      
  Number 465                                                                   
  MR. LUCKHAUPT said the provision for school grounds is not                   
  concerned with whether or not the weapon is concealed.  He                   
  said under the provisions of the proposed legislation, a                     
  person who was carrying a deadly or defensive weapon would                   
  be in violation.  He was concerned as to "how far                            
  participating is going to go."  He maintained that it is                     
  currently legal to carry an unconcealed deadly weapon.  He                   
  further explained it would be possible that a person,                        
  carrying an unconcealed weapon, would be hunting or trapping                 
  near a rural school to watch a school sponsored cross                        
  country skiing event.                                                        
  Number 517                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked if "actively participated" would be better                  
  MS. KNUTH asserted that it would not clarify anything.  She                  
  said participating is meaningful to her, and that identifies                 
  to her who to prosecute and who not to prosecute.                            
  Number 541                                                                   
  REP. BRICE asked if participating in a school sponsored                      
  event needed to be included.  He said if someone is fixing a                 
  flat tire at a school, that person is not participating at a                 
  school event.                                                                
  Number 560                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE referred to legal counsel and said from his                       
  understanding, Ms. Knuth and Mr. Luckhaupt are comfortable                   
  with the language.  He made a motion to amend CSHB 417 to                    
  include the statement:  "participating in a school sponsored                 
  event without permission of..." on page 2, line 4, after the                 
  word "secondary school."                                                     
  Number 586                                                                   
  CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, said CSHB 417 as                        
  amended was so moved.                                                        
  Number 589                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked the committee if the offense should be a                    
  felony as opposed to a Class B misdemeanor.                                  
  Number 599                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH conveyed to the committee that attorneys who have                  
  worked with juveniles have had the experience that a Class B                 
  misdemeanor does not give them enough flexibility to deal                    
  appropriately with the juvenile.  She said that it is not                    
  worthwhile to go through a delinquency proceeding for a                      
  matter that is certainly indicative of a serious problem and                 
  that is only worthy of a Class B misdemeanor.  She stated                    
  that her office was surprised to find that it was only a                     
  Class B misdemeanor and said they had assumed it to be a                     
  felony.  She said it was a policy decision that needed to be                 
  made by the legislature.                                                     
  Number 634                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked the differences in penalties for                            
  misdemeanors and felony charges and level differences.                       
  Number 640                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said that if a youth was to go through the                         
  juvenile system, there are not the same implications as                      
  there are with an adult.  She said that a judge would not                    
  waive a juvenile to adult status simply for possession of a                  
  gun.  She said the most serious of offenses would be waived;                 
  e.g., rape and murder.  She further stated that the                          
  penalties associated with making the offense a felony under                  
  the proposed legislation, would still be minimal.  She said                  
  if a convicted felon was in possession of a gun on school                    
  grounds it would be a Class A felony.                                        
  Number 694                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked Ms. Knuth to explain the parameters of                      
  MS. KNUTH stated that generally there would be no jail time                  
  imposed for this offense, but the maximum would be five                      
  years in jail and a $10,000 fine.                                            
  Number 707                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE suggested that the measure is more of a                           
  psychological deterrent; as with a misdemeanor there is no                   
  jail time, and as a felony there is the potential of at                      
  least two years in prison (not likely to be imposed).                        
  Number 717                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH agreed and also said that there is the option of                   
  probation and supervision.  She said the classification                      
  would imply that the offense is serious enough to warrant                    
  keeping an eye on the offender for at least a year.                          
  Number 724                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked if it would take major revisions of the                     
  proposal to make the offense a Class C felony.                               
  Number 733                                                                   
  MR. LUCKHAUPT said it would not be very difficult to make                    
  the change.                                                                  
  Number 744                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked if the change could be made now or would it                 
  require more time.                                                           
  Number 748                                                                   
  MR. LUCKHAUPT said that he could be directed to amend AS                     
  Number 755                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE said that if he had the support of the committee                  
  to amend that section, he would be willing to pass the bill                  
  out of committee.                                                            
  Number 762                                                                   
  REP. BRICE said that guns in school should be equal to the                   
  offense of having brass knuckles outside of school.  He                      
  asked if there was a way to bring firearms up to a Class A                   
  Number 786                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE maintained that if a change was to be made it                     
  should be a felony.                                                          
  Number 796                                                                   
  REP. BRICE referred to the scenario where a student had a                    
  gun and the police were unable to respond in an appropriate                  
  Number 802                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE replied that the instance was a privacy issue and                 
  was not relevant.                                                            
  REP. BUNDE said the practical application of a misdemeanor                   
  would only involve a fine.  He said he now felt that a                       
  classification of a felony would be more appropriate.                        
  Number 823                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said that an adult would incur jail time for the                   
  offense.  She further stated that a juvenile would go                        
  through an entirely different proceeding where the goal is                   
  Number 838                                                                   
  CHAIR TOOHEY said that a five year old who goes to school                    
  with his father's gun would not be guilty of a felony.                       
  Number 846                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE indicated that there would be prosecutorial                       
  Number 857                                                                   
  REP. BRICE said he would like to see possession of deadly                    
  weapon by a student on school property be a Class A                          
  Number 872                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE said he felt it would be appropriate to hold the                  
  bill and to give the issues further thought.                                 
  Number 887                                                                   
  REP. G. DAVIS indicated that if changes were made there                      
  could be ramifications regarding the fiscal note.                            
  Number 896                                                                   
  REP. BUNDE asked how the change would affect the fiscal                      
  Number 899                                                                   
  MS. KNUTH said the fiscal note would remain at zero.                         
  Number 907                                                                   
  CHAIR TOOHEY stated that the bill would be held over until                   
  the next committee meeting.                                                  
  CHAIR TOOHEY brought HB 418 to the table.                                    
  HB 418 - EXTEND BOARD OF PAROLE                                              
  Number 938                                                                   
  REP. B. DAVIS indicated that an intern of hers would give a                  
  brief overview of the bill.                                                  
  Number 942                                                                   
  NANNETTE GAY, Intern, Rep. Bettye Davis, Prime Sponsor of HB
  418, presented a brief overview of HB 418 on behalf of Rep.                  
  Bettye Davis.  She said HB 418 would extend the Board of                     
  Parole for the customary four year period (to June 30,                       
  1997).  She said under current law the date is June 30,                      
  1994.  She said the expiration of the Parole Board will not                  
  alter the state's responsibility to provide discretionary                    
  and mandatory parole.  She urged the support of HB 418.                      
  REP. BUNDE moved to have HB 418 move out of committee with                   
  individual recommendations.                                                  
  Number 985                                                                   
  CHAIR TOOHEY, hearing no objections, declared that HB 418                    
  was so moved.                                                                
  Seeing no further business before the committee, CHAIR                       
  TOOHEY ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:58 p.m.                                    

Document Name Date/Time Subjects