Legislature(1993 - 1994)

04/01/1993 03:00 PM HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                          April 1, 1993                                        
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                                
  Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                                     
  Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair                                                  
  Rep. Al Vezey                                                                
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Harley Olberg                                                           
  Rep. Bettye Davis                                                            
  Rep. Irene Nicholia                                                          
  Rep. Tom Brice                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  SB 53:    "An Act annulling changes made by certain                          
            regulations adopted by the Department of Health                    
            and Social Services relating to funding of                         
            abortion services under the general relief medical                 
            program; and providing for an effective date."                     
                                                                               
            PASSED WITH INDIVIDUAL RECOMMENDATIONS, NOTICE OF                  
            RECONSIDERATION GIVEN                                              
                                                                               
  HB 210:   "An Act relating to employment of chief school                     
            administrators."                                                   
                                                                               
            POSTPONED TO TIME CERTAIN                                          
                                                                               
  HB 85:    "An Act relating to the public school foundation                   
            program; and providing for an effective date."                     
                                                                               
            POSTPONED TO TIME CERTAIN                                          
                                                                               
  HB 195:   "An Act authorizing youth courts by which to                       
            provide for peer adjudication of minors who have                   
            allegedly committed violations of state or                         
            municipal laws, renaming the community legal                       
            assistance grant fund and amending the purposes                    
            for which grants may be made from that fund in                     
            order to provide financial assistance for                          
            organizations and initial operation of youth                       
            courts, and relating to young adult advisory                       
            panels in the superior court."                                     
                                                                               
            POSTPONED TO TIME CERTAIN                                          
                                                                               
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
                                                                               
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  DEBBI LAWE                                                                   
  P.O. Box 1019                                                                
  Ward Cove, Alaska 99928                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-3515                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in support of SB 53                           
                                                                               
  KATHY HINSON                                                                 
  P.O. Box 9060                                                                
  Ward Cove, Alaska 99928                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-9133                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in support of SB 53                           
                                                                               
  MARSHA GEORGE                                                                
  1926 Cub Court                                                               
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-2490                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  KAREN DANGERFIELD                                                            
  P.O. Box 3013                                                                
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-7434                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in support of SB 53                           
                                                                               
  BILL FREER                                                                   
  748 Millar Ridge                                                             
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-5071                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  ELINORE JACOBSEN                                                             
  2125 Second Ave.                                                             
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-3395                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  FRAN YOUNG                                                                   
  537 Tower Road                                                               
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-3528                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  PENNI POET                                                                   
  P.O. Box 992                                                                 
  Ward Cove, Alaska 99928                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 247-8321                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  JANICE DAREFF                                                                
  963-A Forest Park                                                            
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-4333                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in support of SB 53                           
                                                                               
  DONALD POET                                                                  
  P.O. Box 992                                                                 
  Ward Cove, Alaska 99928                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 247-8321                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  MARCIA HILLEY                                                                
  P.O. Box 7483                                                                
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-5775                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  TERESA CREVIER                                                               
  1123 Black Bear Road                                                         
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-6588                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  JOE WILLIAMS                                                                 
  P.O. Box 6754                                                                
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-4314                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  CANDI AUSTIN                                                                 
  8339 Snug Harbor Lane                                                        
  Ketchikan, Alaska 99901                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 225-6842                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  CHRISTINA KAY SMITH                                                          
  2865 Mendenhall Loop Road                                                    
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 789-9324 work                                                  
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  SID HEIDERSDORF                                                              
  Alaskans for Life                                                            
  P.O. Box 020658                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  ROBIN STEVENS                                                                
  P.O. Box 22070                                                               
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 463-5131 work                                                  
  Phone:  (907) 586-1565 home                                                  
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  KATHY POLK                                                                   
  P.O. Box 020196                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 463-4846                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified in opposition to SB 53                        
                                                                               
  ELMER LINDSTROM, Special Assistant to the Commissioner                       
  Department of Health and Social Services                                     
  P.O. Box 110601                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811-0601                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-3030                                                       
                                                                               
  MICHAEL MCGEE, Chief                                                         
  Permanent Fund Division Operations                                           
  Department of Revenue                                                        
  P.O. Box 110460                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99811                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 465-2622                                                       
  Position statement:  Opposed PFD check-off program amendment                 
                                                                               
  JACK PHELPS, Aide                                                            
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 409                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182                                                    
  Phone:  (907) 465-3777                                                       
  Position statement:  Testified on SB 53                                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  SB  53                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: ANNULLING ABORTION FUNDING REGULATIONS                          
  BILL VERSION: CSSB 53(FIN) AM(EFD FLD)                                       
  SPONSOR(S): HEALTH, EDUCATION & SOCIAL SERVICES                              
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to payment for abortions under                       
  Medicaid and general relief medical assistance; annulling                    
  changes made by certain regulations adopted by the                           
  Department of Health and Social Services relating to funding                 
  of abortion services under the general relief medical                        
  program."                                                                    
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/22/93       122    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/22/93       122    (S)   HES, JUD, FINANCE                                
  01/27/93              (S)   HES AT 01:30 PM BUTROVICH                        
                              ROOM 205                                         
  01/27/93              (S)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  01/29/93       187    (S)   HES RPT  4DP 1NR 1DNP                            
  01/29/93       187    (S)   FISCAL NOTES PUBLISHED (DHSS-5)                  
  02/10/93              (S)   JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  02/10/93              (S)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  02/24/93              (S)   JUD AT 01:30 PM BELTZ ROOM 211                   
  02/24/93              (S)   MINUTE(JUD)                                      
  02/25/93       481    (S)   JUD RPT  1DP  2DP W/AM  2DNP                     
  02/25/93       481    (S)   PREVIOUS FNS (DHSS-5)                            
  02/25/93       487    (S)   FIN WAIVED PUBLIC HEARING                        
                              NOTICE,RULE 23                                   
  02/26/93       499    (S)   FIN RPT  CS  4DP 2DNP                            
                              NEW TITLE                                        
  02/26/93       499    (S)   PREVIOUS FNS APPLY TO CS                         
                              (DHSS-5)                                         
  02/26/93              (S)   FIN AT 09:00 AM SENATE FIN 518                   
  02/26/93              (S)   MINUTE(FIN)                                      
  02/26/93              (S)   RLS AT 01:15 PM FAHRENKAMP                       
                              ROOM 203                                         
  02/26/93              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                      
  03/02/93       575    (S)   MOTION TO CALENDAR 3/3/93 FLD                    
                              Y8 N11 E1                                        
  03/03/93       589    (S)   RULES RPT 2/CALENDAR 1/OTHER                     
                              REC 3/3/93                                       
  03/03/93       590    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                             
  03/03/93       591    (S)   FIN  CS ADOPTED Y13 N5 E1 A1                     
  03/03/93       592    (S)   AM NO  1   ADOPTED Y11 N8 E1                     
  03/03/93       592    (S)   ADVANCE TO 3RD RDG FAILED                        
                              Y13 N6 E1                                        
  03/03/93       592    (S)   THIRD READING 3/5 CALENDAR                       
  03/05/93       634    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB
                              53(FIN) AM                                       
  03/05/93       635    (S)   PASSED Y12 N6 E2                                 
  03/05/93       635    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y12                        
                              N6 E2                                            
  03/05/93       635    (S)   Duncan  NOTICE OF                                
                              RECONSIDERATION                                  
  03/08/93       658    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD                        
                              READING                                          
  03/08/93       659    (S)   PLACED AT BOTTOM OF CALENDAR                     
                              UNAN CONS                                        
  03/08/93       672    (S)   PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y13                    
                              N6 E1                                            
  03/08/93       672    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATE FAILED Y13 N6 E1                  
  03/08/93       677    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                               
  03/10/93       582    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/10/93       582    (H)   L&C, HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                     
  03/23/93              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/25/93              (H)   L&C AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  03/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(L&C)                                      
  03/26/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/26/93       791    (H)   L&C RPT  3DP  2DNP  2NR                          
  03/26/93       791    (H)   DP: WILLIAMS, PORTER, SITTON                     
  03/26/93       791    (H)   DNP: GREEN, MULDER                               
  03/26/93       791    (H)   NR: HUDSON, MACKIE                               
  03/26/93       791    (H)   -5 PREVIOUS SENATE FNS(DHS)                      
                              1/29/93                                          
  04/01/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 210                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: HIRING OF CHIEF SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR                            
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) MARTIN,Kott                                    
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to employment of chief school                        
  administrators."                                                             
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  03/10/93       590    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/10/93       590    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                     
  03/12/93       629    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): KOTT                               
  03/22/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/22/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/22/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  04/01/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB  85                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC SCHOOL FOUNDATION PROGRAM                                
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR                                 
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to the public school foundation                      
  program; and providing for an effective date."                               
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/22/93       138    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/22/93       138    (H)   HES, FINANCE                                     
  01/22/93       138    (H)   -FISCAL NOTE  (DOE)  1/22/93                     
  01/22/93       138    (H)   GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER                    
  02/18/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/18/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  02/23/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  02/23/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/22/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  03/25/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/25/93              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                      
  04/01/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 195                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: AUTHORIZING YOUTH COURTS                                        
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) SITTON,Ulmer,Willis,Foster,                    
  Brown,B.Davis,Olberg,Porter                                                  
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act authorizing youth courts by which to provide                  
  for peer adjudication of minors who have allegedly committed                 
  violations of state or municipal laws, renaming the                          
  community legal assistance grant fund and amending the                       
  purposes for which grants may be made from that fund in                      
  order to provide financial assistance for organization and                   
  initial operation of youth courts, and relating to young                     
  adult advisory panels in the superior court."                                
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  03/03/93       519    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  03/03/93       519    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  03/12/93       628    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): WILLIS, FOSTER,                    
                              BROWN                                            
  03/12/93       628    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): B.DAVIS, OLBERG                    
  03/19/93       716    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): PORTER                             
  03/24/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/31/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  04/01/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-55, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called the meeting to order at 3:39 p.m. and                     
  noted members present.  He announced that HB 85, HB 210 and                  
  HB 195 would be postponed until April 2, 1993.                               
  CHAIR BUNDE announced that the committee would be taking                     
  public testimony via teleconference from Ketchikan because                   
  technical problems had blocked testimony at the previous                     
  hearing on SB 53.  He brought SB 53 to the table.                            
                                                                               
  SB 53:  ANNULLING ABORTION REGULATIONS                                       
                                                                               
  Number 048                                                                   
                                                                               
  DEBBI LAWE testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                    
  support of SB 53.  Her written testimony is on file in the                   
  committee room.  In summary, she said that abortion was                      
  legal, and that the issue was whether abortion would be                      
  limited to wealthy women, and that abortion was a personal,                  
  not political decision.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 085                                                                   
                                                                               
  KATHY HINSON, A MEDICAL LABORATORY TECHNOLOGIST, testified                   
  via teleconference from Ketchikan in support of SB 53,                       
  saying preventing unwanted pregnancies was in the best                       
  interest of the state and its taxpayers.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 099                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARSHA GEORGE testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                 
  opposition to SB 53.  She said talk of discrimination                        
  against poor women was "hogwash."  She said she had three                    
  abortions as a poor, working, single teenager.  She said                     
  that as manager of a low-income housing development in                       
  Ketchikan, she sees many women on welfare who enjoy many                     
  amenities of life and who could likely afford to pay for                     
  abortions if necessary.  She called abortion elective                        
  surgery and questioned whether the government should pay for                 
  any other kinds of elective surgery.                                         
                                                                               
  Number 141                                                                   
                                                                               
  KAREN DANGERFIELD testified via teleconference from                          
  Ketchikan in support of SB 53.  She said polls show most                     
  Americans and Alaskans were pro-choice, which should                         
  persuade legislators to support SB 53.  She also said state                  
  funding of abortions would save the state from paying for a                  
  lifetime of support for unwanted children.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 158                                                                   
                                                                               
  BILL FREER testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                    
  opposition to SB 53, saying that a fetus was alive before                    
  and after birth, and if state laws barred killing a child                    
  after birth, they should not pay to kill it before birth.                    
  He said it was ironic that the state was cutting benefits                    
  for older Alaskans.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 181                                                                   
                                                                               
  ELINORE JACOBSEN testified via teleconference from Ketchikan                 
  in support of SB 53, saying the state had historically                       
  provided support for abortions through Medicaid, and that                    
  all residents must support some government programs with                     
  which they disagreed.  She said abortions should not be                      
  separated from other medical procedures and denied to poor                   
  women.  She said the state spent on abortion was one-fourth                  
  of that spent on medical and welfare costs for unintended                    
  pregnancies.  She mentioned the Religious Coalition for                      
  Abortion Rights, a non-partisan assembly of 35 groups                        
  supporting reproductive freedom as a basic part of religious                 
  liberty.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 220                                                                   
                                                                               
  FRAN YOUNG testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                    
  opposition to SB 53, saying she endorsed the governor's                      
  efforts to restrict state abortion funding.  She encouraged                  
  people to pay for abortions themselves, or to give their                     
  babies up for adoption, or to control their own sexual                       
  activities.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 230                                                                   
                                                                               
  PENNI POET testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                    
  opposition to SB 53, saying the government has to protect                    
  all live babies, whether living in or out of the womb.  She                  
  said abortion discriminated against those residents not old                  
  enough to live outside the womb.  She said the state's                       
  civilization would be judged on how it treated its smallest,                 
  most helpless members.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 254                                                                   
                                                                               
  JANICE DAREFF testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                 
  support of SB 53, saying women have the right to determine                   
  their own health care and reproductive lives, and that poor                  
  women and wealthy women should have the same rights.  She                    
  said that if women lacked reproductive rights, the question                  
  of any other rights was moot.  She said current state                        
  regulations discriminated against women's reproductive                       
  rights.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 268                                                                   
                                                                               
  DONALD POET testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                   
  opposition to SB 53, saying he opposed use of public funds                   
  to take innocent human life.                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 274                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARCIA HILLEY testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                 
  opposition to SB 53, saying that while abortion was legal,                   
  she believed it was murder and she did not want her money                    
  used for murder.  She asked if the state should pay for                      
  fertility treatment as well as abortion, and asked                           
  rhetorically where a government's responsibility to support                  
  women's rights to choose ended.  She observed she had never                  
  been polled on abortion.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 291                                                                   
                                                                               
  TERESA CREVIER testified via teleconference from Ketchikan                   
  in opposition to SB 53.  She said she supported all of the                   
  amendments to SB 53 proposed by Rep. Kott, and that she                      
  would support the bill only if all those amendments were                     
  adopted.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 308                                                                   
                                                                               
  JOE WILLIAMS testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                  
  opposition to SB 53.  He said that, in light of budget                       
  cutbacks, he did now want the government to spend money on                   
  abortion.  He added that women could exercise their right to                 
  choose by choosing not to become pregnant.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 335                                                                   
                                                                               
  CANDI AUSTIN testified via teleconference from Ketchikan in                  
  opposition to SB 53.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 340                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE announced an end to the teleconference with                      
  Ketchikan, and called upon those in Juneau who wished to                     
  testify.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 348                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHRISTINA KAY SMITH testified in Juneau in opposition to                     
  SB 53.  She said abortion takes away a father's rights.  She                 
  said her daughter had an abortion without telling her                        
  boyfriend.  She said a father's concerns should be addressed                 
  in childbearing decisions.  He encouraged legislators to                     
  vote against abortion in any form.  She recalled when the                    
  father of her daughter offered to pay to abort the girl, and                 
  said she then assumed responsibility for the child.  She                     
  said she was half Tlingit and it would not take long for her                 
  people to die off.                                                           
                                                                               
  (Rep. Nicholia arrived at 4:03 p.m.)                                         
                                                                               
  Number 379                                                                   
                                                                               
  SID HEIDERSDORF, ALASKANS FOR LIFE, testified in Juneau in                   
  opposition to SB 53.  He said the state's laws should                        
  protect not take human life, and that most people knew that                  
  abortion was wrong as promoting chaos in language, law and                   
  values.  He said women do bear a responsibility to their                     
  babies, and said babies afflicted with cocaine addiction or                  
  Fetal Alcohol Syndrome paid the price of their mothers'                      
  actions.  He said laws against child abuse protect                           
  childrens' rights, but said that abortion rights say the                     
  state did not care about babies' rights.  He said abortion                   
  could not be reconciled with other social values.  He stated                 
  "therapeutic" abortion was broadly defined, and that the                     
  regulations would allow all but purely elective abortions.                   
                                                                               
  ROBIN STEVENS testified in Juneau in opposition to SB 53,                    
  saying that he and his 46-year-old wife were parents of a                    
  21-month-old baby.  He said he opposed state funding of                      
  abortions, and encouraged the legislators to use the money                   
  instead for research on alcohol.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 454                                                                   
                                                                               
  KATHY POLK testified in Juneau, remarking that while she had                 
  observed many hearings on SB 53 and had heard few people                     
  testify in support of it, she was surprised to see the bill                  
  continue to pass committees.  She said she was a Christian                   
  and a minority, and that everyone was a minority in some                     
  way.  She said she believed that SB 53 would be killed in                    
  Jesus' name.  She said only God could take a life.  She said                 
  she and other Christians had been praying about the bill,                    
  that they were taking authority over it in Jesus' name, and                  
  that the bill would die.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 488                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE closed public testimony on SB 53 and called for                  
  discussion by the committee.                                                 
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE, hearing no discussion, MOVED passage of SB 53                    
  with individual recommendations.                                             
                                                                               
  Number 494                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT objected for the purpose of introducing                            
  amendments.                                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted the objection, and asked Rep. Kott to                      
  speak to his amendment.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 510                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT replaced his original amendment 1, distributed at                  
  an earlier meeting, with a different amendment.  The new                     
  amendment 1 returned CSSB 53(FIN) am(efd fld) to the same                    
  form as the original SB 53 before it was amended in the                      
  Senate.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 551                                                                   
                                                                               
  ELMER LINDSTROM, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE COMMISSIONER,                      
  DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES, said he understood                 
  that the amendment would nullify all amendments made to                      
  SB 53 by the Senate.  It would therefore have the effect of                  
  annulling the regulations recently adopted by the Department                 
  of Health and Social Services.  However, it would not                        
  preclude the department from re-promulgating those                           
  regulations and would not effect a permanent law.  He said                   
  the department opposed SB 53, both in its original and                       
  amended versions.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 570                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Rep. Kott about the effective date of the                  
  bill.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 575                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said the new amendment would change the effective                  
  date to 90 days after the governor signed the bill.  He                      
  noted that the CSSB 53(FIN) am(efd fld) had no effective                     
  date, and therefore would take effect 90 days after the                      
  governor signed it.                                                          
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked whether Rep. Kott wanted to add an                         
  effective date.                                                              
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said no.                                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked a clarifying question regarding the                        
  effective date.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 534                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said his amendment to delete section 5 contained a                 
  retroactive date of February 19, 1993.  The intent of the                    
  amendment was to conform the House version of the bill to                    
  the failure of the Senate to enact the retroactive effective                 
  date.                                                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE thanked Rep. Kott for the explanation.                           
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE called the question.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 546                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked Mr. Lindstrom whether he understood Rep.                   
  Kott's amendment 1 to have the effect of changing CSSB
  53(FIN) am(efd fld) back to the original form of SB 53 as                    
  introduced to the Senate.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 555                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. LINDSTROM said that this would be his reading of the                     
  language, but he did not have a copy of the original SB 53.                  
  (A committee aide distributed copies of the original SB 53).                 
  Mr. Lindstrom then said he would need to consult with the                    
  Department of Law.  He said that while the intent statement                  
  was the same in the original and amended bills, he was not                   
  sure whether section 2 as amended would have the effect of                   
  annulling the abortion regulations in question.  However,                    
  Mr. Lindstrom then corrected himself, saying that section 2                  
  of the original SB 53 and section 2 in the bill after Rep.                   
  Kott's amendment 1 would have the same effect.                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the question had been called, and                     
  asked for a roll call vote.  Those voting yes:  Reps. Kott,                  
  Bunde, G. Davis and Vezey.  Those voting no were:  Reps.                     
  Olberg, B. Davis, Nicholia, Brice and Toohey.  The motion                    
  FAILED 4-5.                                                                  
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY MOVED passage of CSSB 53(FIN) am(efd fld) with                   
  individual recommendations.                                                  
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted that the motion had already been made, and                 
  that Rep. Kott had objected for the purpose of making an                     
  amendment.  He asked if there was further discussion of the                  
  motion.                                                                      
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT OBJECTED for purpose of making an amendment.  He                   
  noted that he had provided committee members with five                       
  amendments.  He withdrew his amendment 2, and proceeded to                   
  amendment 3.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 581                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said his amendment 3 allowed those receiving                       
  permanent fund dividends to check off a box on their                         
  applications to direct a portion of their money to pay for                   
  state-funded abortions.  He MOVED the amendment.                             
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE OBJECTED to the motion.  He said that, as a                       
  legislative worker in the previous year, he had worked with                  
  the Department of Revenue's Permanent Fund Division and                      
  believed that the division adamantly opposed any type of                     
  check-off for any reason.                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE invited a representative from the Department of                  
  Revenue to testify.                                                          
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-55, SIDE B                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MICHAEL MCGEE, CHIEF OF OPERATIONS FOR THE PERMANENT FUND                    
  DIVISION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE, said the department                   
  did oppose any check-off to the permanent fund program, as                   
  both houses of the state legislature had opposed them for                    
  years, since it would open a floodgate of requests for such                  
  check-offs.  He recalled one proposal to allow check-offs to                 
  non-profit organizations and noted that there were 4,500                     
  such organizations in the state.                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked whether there would have to be a fiscal                    
  note to cover the administrative costs of such a check-off                   
  program.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. MCGEE answered yes.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 024                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said that there had been a check-off allowed on                    
  PFD applications at least once before.                                       
                                                                               
  MR. MCGEE answered yes, that there had been a check-off                      
  allowed for the effort to attract the Olympic games to                       
  Anchorage.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 030                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked the fiscal impact of the check-off.                          
                                                                               
  MR. MCGEE answered that had did not recall, but such a                       
  check-off would require an on-going expense.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 035                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked for further discussion and, hearing none,                  
  called for a roll call vote on Rep. Kott's amendment 3.                      
  Those voting yes were:  Reps. Vezey and Kott.  Those voting                  
  no were:  Reps. Olberg, B. Davis, Nicholia, Brice, Toohey,                   
  Bunde and G. Davis.  The motion FAILED 2-7.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 058                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT introduced amendment 4, which he said would direct                 
  physicians, before performing an abortion upon a woman, to                   
  inform her of certain information concerning the abortion,                   
  including details of the procedure, its risks, and                           
  alternatives to abortion.  He said the amendment intended to                 
  protect the state from lawsuits.                                             
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE OBJECTED.                                                         
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if Rep. Kott's amendment was similar to a                  
  bill he had previously introduced (HB 154).                                  
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT answered yes.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 073                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE raised a point of order, saying that the                          
  amendment exceeded the title of the bill and therefore was                   
  inappropriate.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 075                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked his aide to speak to the objection.                          
                                                                               
  Number 081                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PHELPS said the first part of amendment 4 was not                        
  identical to HB 154, as the amendment dealt only with state                  
  funded abortions.  He said the title of the bill was broad                   
  enough to allow for the changes, because it related to                       
  payment for abortions by requiring that women receiving                      
  abortions paid for by the state should be fully informed.                    
                                                                               
  Number 102                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE respectfully disagreed with Mr. Phelps.  He said                 
  a woman's right to know was not part of the regulations                      
  being annulled, as referred to in the title of the bill,                     
  "An Act annulling changes made by certain regulations..."                    
  He said that since the changes did not exist, they could not                 
  be annulled.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 110                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PHELPS said Chair Bunde might be correct.  He added that                 
  if the committee wanted to adopt the amendment, it would be                  
  easy to change the title.                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said he still had problems with the bill's                       
  title, but said he would allow the vote.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 124                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked Chair Bunde to move the amendment on to                      
  Judiciary, which he said might be a more proper forum to                     
  decide whether a title change was required.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 130                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote on Rep. Kott's                       
  amendment 4.  Those voting yes were:  Reps. G. Davis and                     
  Kott.  Those voting no were:  Reps. B. Davis, Nicholia,                      
  Brice, Toohey, Bunde and Olberg.  The motion FAILED 2-6.                     
                                                                               
  Number 139                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT presented his amendment 5, saying it would have                    
  the effect of allowing state funding for therapeutic                         
  abortions alone, and not elective abortions.  He said the                    
  amendment reflected public outcry against public funding of                  
  abortion as a method of birth control.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 150                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE commented that Rep. Kott's definition of the                     
  word "therapeutic" would be narrower than would be reflected                 
  in the testimony heard by the committee that day.                            
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT commented, "Perhaps."                                              
                                                                               
  Number 151                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE OBJECTED to the amendment.                                        
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no discussion, called for a roll call                   
  vote on the amendment.  Those voting yes were:  Reps. G.                     
  Davis, Vezey and Kott.  Those voting no were:  Reps.                         
  Nicholia, Brice, Toohey, Bunde, Olberg and B. Davis.  The                    
  motion FAILED 3-6.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 169                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT withdrew amendment 6 and submitted amendment 7,                    
  his final proposed amendment.  He said amendment 7 was a                     
  technical change to help ensure that using the term                          
  procedure did not preclude non-surgical abortions, so that                   
  women would have a full range of choices in abortion                         
  services.  He said the word "treatment" should be added as a                 
  broader term that would include any new technological                        
  innovations, such as the abortifacient RU-486.                               
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said some people might call RU-486 a procedure.                  
                                                                               
  There followed discussion among committee members about what                 
  constituted abortion "treatments" and abortion "procedures."                 
                                                                               
  Number 200                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. G. DAVIS CALLED THE QUESTION.                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if Rep. Kott favored RU-486.                               
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said he was not saying he favored it, but that if                  
  it was used, the state would not be required to pay for it                   
  without his amendment.                                                       
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked whether Rep. Kott's intent was to allow                    
  the state to pay for RU-486 treatment.                                       
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said yes, if RU-486 became available.                              
                                                                               
  Number 217                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE invited Rep. Toohey, as a nurse, to                              
  differentiate between "treatment" and "procedure."                           
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY said she believed the terms were                                 
  interchangeable, but it would be appropriate to consult the                  
  dictionary.                                                                  
                                                                               
  There followed further discussion among committee members                    
  about what constituted "treatments" and "procedures."                        
                                                                               
  Number 234                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE read definitions of the terms in question from                   
  the dictionary.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 241                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said he wanted to make sure the language in the                    
  bill was consistent, noting that section 3, line 24,                         
  included the terms "treatments" and "procedures."                            
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted the difference in language, saying that                    
  lines 5-6 discuss a particular procedure, whereas lines 23-                  
  24 speak of the abortion procedure as it related to other                    
  procedures and treatments which might be performed in                        
  addition to the abortion.  He said he did not know if it was                 
  necessary, for continuity's sake, to have both terms.                        
                                                                               
  Number 272                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. PHELPS said it was obvious that Rep. Kott opposed SB 53,                 
  but he would prefer to have it in as proper a form as                        
  possible if it were going to pass.  He said he and Rep.                      
  Kott, in researching HB 154, had discovered potential                        
  differences in how the terms were used, and therefore were                   
  trying to apply that experience toward a friendly amendment                  
  to a bill they both opposed.                                                 
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE CALLED THE QUESTION.                                              
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote on the amendment.                    
  Those voting yes were:  Reps. Vezey and Kott.  Those voting                  
  no were:  Reps. Brice, Toohey, Bunde, G. Davis, Olberg, B.                   
  Davis and Nicholia.  The motion FAILED 2-7.                                  
                                                                               
  Number 296                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE, hearing no further discussion on the main                       
  motion to pass CSSB 53(FIN) am(efd fld) out of committee,                    
  called for a roll call vote.                                                 
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT OBJECTED for purposes of discussion.  He said in                   
  recent weeks members of the House had made hard choices to                   
  cut the budget.  The House had voted to cut welfare                          
  benefits, Longevity Bonus payments, and property tax                         
  exemptions to senior citizen homeowners, and were                            
  considering cutting such benefits to renters and disabled                    
  veterans.  He said that the move to cut state abortion                       
  funding must be looked at as another cost-cutting measure.                   
  He said the state would save money by paying for fewer than                  
  the 2,600 abortions performed in 1992.  He said if the                       
  legislature was going to demonstrate consistency, it would                   
  have to cut the number of abortions.                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called for a vote on the main motion.  Those                     
  voting yes were:  Reps. Toohey, Bunde, Olberg, B. Davis,                     
  Nicholia and Brice.  Those voting no were:  Reps. G. Davis,                  
  Vezey and Kott.  The motion PASSED 6-3.                                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said,  "And with that ...                                        
                                                                               
  Number 327                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT stated, "Mr. Chairman, I'd like to serve notice of                 
  reconsideration of my vote."                                                 
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "Reconsideration is duly noted, and that                   
  brings us to the end of business for today."                                 
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS asked if Rep. Kott was serious about asking                    
  for reconsideration.                                                         
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT answered that he was.                                              
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS said she had never heard of reconsideration at                 
  the committee level.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 334                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked the chair to call an at-ease so that he                      
  could present a legal opinion on the issue of                                
  reconsideration.                                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called a two-minute at-ease at 4:45 p.m., and                    
  called the meeting back to order two minutes later.                          
                                                                               
  Number 338                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY said the matter was still in the committee's                      
  possession until the bill was transmitted to the House                       
  Clerk.                                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 340                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked if it were not moot if the bill was                        
  physically in the committee's possession, regardless of                      
  whether the committee had adjourned.  He said the bill could                 
  not be reconsidered until the committee was back in session.                 
                                                                               
  REP. OLBERG asked that the section of Mason's Manual could                   
  be read into the record.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 330                                                                   
                                                                               
  LYNNE SMITH, HESS COMMITTEE AIDE, read Mason's Manual,                       
  section 635, which stated:  "The standing or special                         
  committee has the right to reconsider any action taken by it                 
  so long as the subject matter remains in the possession of                   
  the committee.  Reconsideration in a committee is generally                  
  subject to the same rules as in the body.  The principal                     
  variations are that even when there is a time limit on the                   
  motion to reconsider in the main body, a reconsideration can                 
  be moved at any time while the matter still remains before                   
  the committee, and that reconsideration may be moved by any                  
  member even though he was absent when the vote was taken."                   
                                                                               
  Number 353                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY asked if the committee could vote on the                         
  reconsideration at that time.                                                
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated, "We can vote on the reconsideration when                 
  the person who served notice of reconsideration ..."                         
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE said anyone could bring up notice of                              
  reconsideration.                                                             
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY MOVED a vote on the reconsideration.                             
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE seconded the motion.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 359                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE read from the legal opinion which Rep. Kott had                  
  provided, which was written by Tam Cook, director of the                     
  Division of Legal Services of the Legislative Affairs                        
  Agency, dated March 30, 1993, (on file in the committee                      
  room), which said that the Uniform Rules were silent on the                  
  issue of reconsideration in committees, though committee                     
  procedures were less formal than procedures in the full                      
  house.  He said that while the Uniform Rules did not address                 
  the issue, he said that Mason's Rules, under which the                       
  committee operated, did.                                                     
                                                                               
  (Rep. B. Davis departed at 4:49 p.m.)                                        
                                                                               
  Number 374                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE read from Ms. Cook's letter, page two:  "It                      
  seems clear that a motion to reconsider can be made in                       
  committee, and that the Uniform Rules apply to these motions                 
  to the extend that they can be made applicable, except that                  
  the time limit on making the motion does not apply."                         
                                                                               
  Number 382                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY noted that there was a motion on the floor.                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE read from Ms. Cook's letter, page two:  "In                      
  practice the right is closely restricted in time because the                 
  motion cannot be made after the subject of the vote is out                   
  of possession of the body.  So if a vote deals with                          
  reporting a bill from committee, notice of reconsideration                   
  must be given at the meeting the vote is taken.  Otherwise                   
  the report may be read across and the matter will have left                  
  the possession of the committee."                                            
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "You have the right for the motion of                      
  reconsideration.  The question now is when is it brought up                  
  again, and who can do that."                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 390                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TOOHEY reminded Chair Bunde of her motion to vote on                    
  the motion for reconsideration.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 393                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE asked the committee aide to re-read the relevant                 
  section of Mason's Manual.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 396                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. SMITH read Mason's Manual, section 635:  "The standing                   
  or special committee has the right to reconsider any action                  
  taken by it so long as the subject matter remains in the                     
  possession of the committee.  Reconsideration in a committee                 
  is generally subject to the same rules as in the body.  The                  
  principal variations are that even when there is a time                      
  limit on the motion to reconsider in the main body, a                        
  reconsideration can be moved at any time while the matter                    
  still remains before the committee, and that reconsideration                 
  may be moved by any member even though he was absent when                    
  the vote was taken."                                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE stated, "See, the point is, you can move to                      
  reconsider, but who can then bring that reconsideration back                 
  up?"                                                                         
                                                                               
  VARIOUS COMMITTEE MEMBERS answered that any member could                     
  move the reconsideration, even if absent.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 350                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE noted the motion to bring up for reconsideration                 
  the vote on SB 53, and called for a roll call vote.  Those                   
  voting yes were:  Reps. Olberg, Nicholia, Brice, Toohey and                  
  Bunde.  Those voting no were:  Reps. Kott and Vezey.                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "We have before us House (Senate) Bill                     
  53."                                                                         
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE said, "I MOVE SB 53."                                             
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE called for a roll call vote.  He then corrected                  
  himself to say Senate Bill 53.                                               
                                                                               
  DAN SADDLER, COMMITTEE SECRETARY began calling the role,                     
  beginning with Rep. Olberg, who responded yes.                               
                                                                               
  MR. SADDLER then called for Rep. Nicholia's vote, who                        
  responded yes.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 417                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT stated, "Point of order.  The two-thirds of the                    
  whole body is six.  We failed to acquire that."                              
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "We will need six votes to pass this out                   
  of this committee."                                                          
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE asked, "Or do you need three to stop it?"                         
                                                                               
  In general discussion among committee members, it was not                    
  clear whether a two-thirds vote of the whole committee, or                   
  two-thirds of the members present, was necessary.                            
                                                                               
  CHAIR BUNDE said, "We will stand at ease for five minutes."                  
  He immediately reconvened the meeting and ADJOURNED the                      
  meeting at 4:45 p.m.                                                         

Document Name Date/Time Subjects