Legislature(1993 - 1994)

03/15/1993 03:00 PM HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
           HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                         
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         March 15, 1993                                        
                            3:00 p.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                                
  Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                                     
  Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair                                                  
  Rep. Al Vezey                                                                
  Rep. Pete Kott                                                               
  Rep. Harley Olberg                                                           
  Rep. Bettye Davis                                                            
  Rep. Irene Nicholia                                                          
  Rep. Tom Brice                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  None                                                                         
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  *HB 154:  "An Act establishing a woman's right to know                       
            certain medical facts related to the woman's                       
            safety before an abortion is performed."                           
                                                                               
            HEARD AND HELD                                                     
                                                                               
  *HB 128:  "An Act relating to early acknowledgement of                       
            paternity for the child of an unmarried mother."                   
                                                                               
            NOT HEARD                                                          
                                                                               
  HB 30:    "An Act amending the definition of `municipality'                  
            for purposes of the human services matching grant                  
            program."                                                          
                                                                               
            NOT HEARD                                                          
                                                                               
  (* First public hearing.)                                                    
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  LAURIE CHRISTENSON                                                           
  P.O. Box 4123                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 235-5915                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  MEL PUCKETT, Pastor                                                          
  Tok First Baptist Church                                                     
  P.O. Box 37                                                                  
  Tok, Alaska 99780                                                            
  Phone:  (907) 883-2953                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  DR. CLARICE DUKEMINIER                                                       
  1905 Cowles                                                                  
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99701                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 456-3139                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 154                       
                                                                               
  MARTHA CLARK                                                                 
  3030 Bettles Bay Loop                                                        
  Anchorage, Alaska 99515                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 344-1323                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  SANDOR MANYOKY                                                               
  3900 E. 112th Ave.                                                           
  Anchorage, Alaska 99516                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 344-4108                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  LEANN MCCAUGHEY                                                              
  P.O. Box 8642                                                                
  Nikiski, Alaska 99635                                                        
  Phone:  (907) 776-5687                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  JOYCE MOLDENHAUER                                                            
  P.O. Box 595                                                                 
  Sterling, Alaska 99672                                                       
  Phone:  (907) 262-9319                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  MARY SOLTIS                                                                  
  615 Degroff                                                                  
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 747-5624                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  ALICE YOUNG                                                                  
  Respect for Human Life                                                       
  P.O. Box 6161                                                                
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 747-5155                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  DANIEL J. DAVIS                                                              
  P.O. Box 1285                                                                
  Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                 
  Phone:  (907) 895-4190                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  MICHAEL RAWALT                                                               
  P.O. Box 823                                                                 
  Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                 
  Phone:  (907) 895-1946                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  DEBRA JOSLIN                                                                 
  P.O. Box 138                                                                 
  Delta Junction, Alaska 99737                                                 
  Phone:  (907) 895-4565                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  DEBORAH MORRIS                                                               
  P.O. Box 304                                                                 
  Kenai, Alaska 99611                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 283-8459                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  BETTIE L. DAVIS                                                              
  P.O. Box 395                                                                 
  Clam Gulch, Alaska 99568                                                     
  Phone:  (907) 262-5124                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  GLENDA STRAUBE                                                               
  1318 N St.                                                                   
  Anchorage, Alaska 99501                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 278-0840                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 154                       
                                                                               
  ELIZABETH CURREY                                                             
  P.O. Box 90909                                                               
  Anchorage, Alaska 99509                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 258-0123                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  EILEEN BECKER                                                                
  P.O. Box 109                                                                 
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 235-7526                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  MARTHA RESETARITS                                                            
  P.O. Box 3063                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 235-6413                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  STEPHANIE VIERIA                                                             
  611 Biorka St.                                                               
  Sitka, Alaska 99835                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 747-3698                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  SUSAN MANYOKY                                                                
  3900 E 112th Ave.                                                            
  Anchorage, Alaska 99516                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 344-4108                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  REP. TERRY MARTIN                                                            
  Alaska State Legislature                                                     
  State Capitol, Room 411                                                      
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 465-3783                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  RUTH LISTER, Member                                                          
  Interior Alaska Women's Political Caucus                                     
  1290 Jones Road                                                              
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99709                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 455-6886                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 154                       
                                                                               
  KRIS GROSE                                                                   
  Interior Alaska Right to Life                                                
  1111 Elizabeth St.                                                           
  Fairbanks, Alaska 99709                                                      
  Phone:  (907) 455-6886                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  DUANE CHRISTENSON                                                            
  P.O. Box 4123                                                                
  Homer, Alaska 99603                                                          
  Phone:  (907) 235-5915                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  IDA BARNACK, President                                                       
  Alaskans for Life, Inc.                                                      
  8292 Garnet St.                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 465-4531 work                                                  
  Phone:  (907) 789-9622 home                                                  
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  JOAN HEIDERSDORF                                                             
  P.O. Box 020658                                                              
  Juneau, Alaska 99802                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 789-9858                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
  JUDY CAVANAUGH                                                               
  Juneau Coalition for Pro-Choice                                              
  510 Third St.                                                                
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Phone:  (907) 586-8447 work                                                  
  Phone:  (907) 463-3367                                                       
  Position Statement:  Testified in opposition to HB 154                       
                                                                               
  SANDY SPARGO                                                                 
  965 Goldbelt                                                                 
  Juneau, Alaska 99801                                                         
  Position Statement:  Testified in favor of HB 154                            
                                                                               
                                                                               
  PREVIOUS ACTION                                                              
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 154                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: INFORMED CONSENT BEFORE ABORTIONS                               
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) KOTT,Green,Martin,Sanders                      
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act establishing a woman's right to know certain                  
  medical facts related to the woman's safety before an                        
  abortion is performed."                                                      
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  02/15/93       345    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/15/93       346    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY                                   
  02/17/93       372    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): SANDERS                            
  03/15/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB 128                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: EARLY ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF PATERNITY                              
  BILL VERSION: SSHB 128                                                       
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) B.DAVIS,Toohey                                 
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act relating to early acknowledgement of                          
  paternity for the child of an unmarried mother."                             
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  02/05/93       235    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  02/05/93       235    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  03/08/93       569    (H)   SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE                               
                              INTRODUCED-REFERRALS                             
  03/08/93       569    (H)   HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE                          
  03/15/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  BILL:  HB  30                                                                
  SHORT TITLE: HUMAN SERVICES MATCHING GRANTS                                  
  BILL VERSION:                                                                
  SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)BRICE, Sitton, Therriault,                      
  Davies, James                                                                
                                                                               
  TITLE: "An Act amending the definition of `municipality' for                 
  purposes of the human services community matching grant                      
  program."                                                                    
                                                                               
  JRN-DATE    JRN-PG                     ACTION                                
  01/04/93        32    (H)   PREFILE RELEASED                                 
  01/11/93        32    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)                  
  01/11/93        32    (H)   CRA, HES, FINANCE                                
  01/15/93        92    (H)   COSPONSOR(S): DAVIES, JAMES                      
  02/09/93              (H)   CRA AT 01:00 PM CAPITOL 124                      
  02/09/93              (H)   MINUTE(CRA)                                      
  02/10/93       284    (H)   CRA RPT  CS(CRA) 5DP  2NR                        
  02/10/93       284    (H)   DP: BUNDE,DAVIES,WILLIS,                         
                              TOOHEY,OLBERG                                    
  02/10/93       284    (H)   NR: SANDERS, WILLIAMS                            
  02/10/93       284    (H)   -2 ZERO FNS (DCRA,DHSS) 2/10/93                  
  02/10/93       285    (H)   REFERRED TO HES                                  
  02/22/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
  03/15/93              (H)   HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106                      
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-35, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY called the meeting to order at 3:08 p.m., noted                 
  members present, and announced the calendar.  She said the                   
  meeting was being teleconferenced to Kenai-Soldotna, Tok,                    
  Delta Junction, and Homer.  She also noted that testimony                    
  would be limited to two minutes in order to accommodate the                  
  large number of people hoping to testify.                                    
                                                                               
  (Rep. Nicholia arrived at 3:10 p.m.)                                         
  HB 154 - INFORMED CONSENT BEFORE ABORTION                                    
                                                                               
  Number 055                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. PETE KOTT spoke as PRIME SPONSOR of HB 154.  He said                    
  the bill was not an anti-abortion bill and asked members to                  
  lay aside any preconceptions about the bill they might have                  
  had.  He said HB 154 was a pro-woman, women-empowering bill                  
  designed to protect women when they are most vulnerable, in                  
  crisis pregnancies.  He said the state has an interest in                    
  making sure that women make informed decisions on abortion,                  
  and to receive their information from physicians.                            
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said the bill should please the pro-choice camp,                   
  because it assures that decisions on a potentially dangerous                 
  operation are made with full understanding of their                          
  implications.  He said that possibly as many as 90 percent                   
  of abortions in Alaska are done in clinics, which rely                       
  financially on the practice and which therefore might not                    
  provide full information on the procedures.  He said the                     
  bill would enhance the physician-patient relationship by                     
  requiring a doctor to meet at least once to discuss abortion                 
  with a woman patient.  He noted a 1987 American Medical                      
  Association (AMA) policy statement supporting informed                       
  consent for medical procedures.  He said the Alaska                          
  administrative codes' requirement for informed consent                       
  before abortion are inadequate because they are not in                       
  statute, and because they do not require the actual                          
  physician performing the procedure to provide the                            
  information.                                                                 
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT stated, "The decision to abort is an important                     
  one, a decision that is very often stressful for the                         
  patient.  This makes it all the more desirable that the                      
  decision be made with the full knowledge of both the nature                  
  of abortion and its consequences, so a potentially life                      
  changing decision is not made in haste.  It is simply                        
  essential to the psychological and physical well-being of a                  
  woman considering an abortion that she receive complete and                  
  accurate information from her doctor.  This bill asserts                     
  this imperative and makes it a matter of law.  In closing, I                 
  would like to again reiterate that this is not an anti-                      
  abortion bill; there is no period of reflection.  It is a                    
  woman's empowerment bill."                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT noted that 25 states have laws requiring informed                  
  consent before abortions.                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 165                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY questioned whether it was proper, given the                       
  Department of Corrections' problems with prison                              
  overcrowding, to make failure to comply with the informed                    
  consent a misdemeanor, punishable by a year in prison and/or                 
  a fine of $5,000.                                                            
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said that the penalty was meant as a deterrent to                  
  encourage physicians to follow the law.  He pointed out                      
  results of a national survey he provided to members, which                   
  claimed to show that 50 percent of women receiving abortions                 
  had not been adequately informed about the abortion                          
  procedure.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 193                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE noted the initials W.E.B.Y. on the survey, and                    
  asked the source of the survey.                                              
                                                                               
  A WOMAN IN THE COMMITTEE ROOM answered that W.E.B.Y. stood                   
  for "Women Exploited By Abortion."                                           
                                                                               
  Number 204                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE observed that the survey was not conducted by an                  
  unbiased organization.  He also noted the zero fiscal note                   
  from the Department of Law and asked whether there would not                 
  be an additional cost to the Department of Health and Social                 
  Services, through Medicaid services, for the additional time                 
  physicians would have to spend advising patients under the                   
  bill.                                                                        
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said that the funding of abortions through                         
  Medicaid was still up in the air, and he did not believe the                 
  bill would require doctors to spend more than five more                      
  minutes with their patients.  He said the bill was aimed at                  
  preventing a "barbershop style of conducting business" in                    
  which clinics dealt with women patients not as individuals,                  
  but as numbers.                                                              
                                                                               
  Number 220                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked whether HB 154 required a second visit to a                 
  clinic.                                                                      
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said, "We're talking about a woman coming to a                     
  clinic seeking an abortion, and allowing for about five                      
  minutes, I would imagine it wouldn't take any longer than                    
  five minutes, to explain the circumstances surrounding                       
  abortion as well as some alternatives."                                      
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE said he would be surprised if it could be                         
  discussed in five minutes, but said he understood Rep.                       
  Kott's point about any fiscal note.                                          
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said the Department of Health and Social Services                  
  was asked about a fiscal note, but had responded that none                   
  was necessary.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 232                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BRICE noted that HB 154 required a doctor to discuss                    
  alternative treatments or procedures before the abortion,                    
  and asked Rep. Kott if he was thereby implicitly supporting                  
  the introduction of the abortifacient RU-486 into Alaska.                    
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said he neither supported nor opposed the                          
  introduction of RU-486, but he would comment if and when it                  
  became legal in the United States.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 244                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY announced she would begin taking public                         
  testimony.                                                                   
                                                                               
  LAURIE CHRISTENSON testified via teleconference from Homer                   
  in support of HB 154.  She said she had made a mistake in                    
  getting an abortion, did not receive adequate information                    
  beforehand, and hoped to discourage other women from making                  
  an uninformed decision about abortion.                                       
                                                                               
  Number 274                                                                   
                                                                               
  MEL PUCKETT, PASTOR OF THE TOK FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH,                         
  testified via teleconference from Tok in support of HB 154.                  
  He asked that the bill be amended to require warnings to                     
  women of the psychological harm they might experience                        
  through an abortion.  He said he has seen such harm in his                   
  work as a counselor and therapist.                                           
                                                                               
  Number 292                                                                   
                                                                               
  DR. CLARICE DUKEMINIER, a physician who performs abortions,                  
  testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in opposition to                 
  HB 154.  She said, "The proposed legislation is not only an                  
  affront to my profession, but is also harassment and                         
  unnecessary.  Informed consent is the dialogue that a                        
  physician or another health care professional and a patient                  
  participate in prior to medical or surgical treatment.  I                    
  find it offensive and impossible indeed that legislation                     
  would presume to outline that dialogue and then dictate                      
  misdemeanor charges for failure to comply.  Medical informed                 
  consent, as already practiced, includes disclosure to the                    
  patient of the nature, the alternatives and relevant risks                   
  of any proposed procedure."                                                  
                                                                               
  DR. DUKEMINIER took exception with the requirement that                      
  physicians themselves deliver information orally.  She said                  
  that as most patients remember only 10 percent of oral                       
  instructions, most physicians rely on written information.                   
  She said doctors use nurses to counsel patients as a way to                  
  save money and allow more time for patient questions.  She                   
  said the bill's reference to a fetus as an "unborn child"                    
  was as inappropriate as referring to an adult person as an                   
  "un-dead corpse."  She said HB 154 required delineation of                   
  the risks of carrying a child to term without stating those                  
  risks, and that a doctor could conceivably face misdemeanor                  
  charges for failure to mention all of the myriad of possible                 
  risks.  In summary, she said HB 154 was offensive and                        
  unnecessary.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 332                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked Dr. Dukeminier to describe the procedure a                  
  woman undergoing an abortion would follow at the doctor's                    
  clinic.                                                                      
                                                                               
  DR. DUKEMINIER said such a woman would be given half an hour                 
  to review written information about the procedure.  She                      
  would then spend 30 minutes to 45 minutes undergoing a                       
  medical examination, medical history review, and counseling                  
  with the doctor or a nurse practitioner concerning all the                   
  issues required under informed consent.  While the actual                    
  abortion procedure takes an hour or more, she said, she                      
  encouraged patients to return at least a day later for the                   
  procedure.  She said that more than 95 percent of her                        
  patients returned the next day for the abortion procedure.                   
                                                                               
  Number 369                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT observed that Dr. Dukeminier was following prudent                 
  and rational practice and was not a target of the bill.  He                  
  asked whether she would object to a bill requiring other                     
  physicians, possibly not so conscientious, to meet minimum                   
  standards.  He also asked her to comment on the case of a                    
  woman who entered an abortion clinic and left 45 minutes                     
  later, the procedure completed.                                              
                                                                               
  DR. DUKEMINIER said she found that difficult to believe, as                  
  it was improper to rush such a difficult decision.  She said                 
  she was insulted by the assumption that physicians                           
  performing abortions were not professionals who did not                      
  obtain informed consent.  She also challenged Rep. Kott's                    
  assertion that half of women were not adequately counseled                   
  before their abortions, saying studies show patients do not                  
  retain much of the information they are given.                               
                                                                               
  Number 393                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY noted for the record that Rep. Davidson had                     
  arrived in the committee room and invited him to the                         
  committee table; which he declined.                                          
                                                                               
  MARTHA CLARK testified via teleconference from Anchorage in                  
  support of HB 154.  She expressed disbelief at the lack of                   
  mandatory full disclosure about abortion, and said women                     
  have the right to full information.  She said abortion                       
  entails several risks, including sterilization or death, and                 
  a doctor withholding any information about them from a woman                 
  patient is guilty of sexual abuse.  She favored the legal                    
  penalties in the bill.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 424                                                                   
                                                                               
  SANDOR MANYOKY testified via teleconference from Anchorage                   
  in support of HB 154.  He said his mother had an abortion                    
  and later cried about it.  His said he supported doctors who                 
  provided full information about surgical procedures, and                     
  that women deserve informed consent to abortion.                             
                                                                               
  LEANN MCCAUGHEY testified via teleconference from Nikiski in                 
  support of HB 154, saying it will give women the tools                       
  necessary to make an informed decision about abortion.  She                  
  wanted doctors to give patients information, both oral and                   
  written, about abortion.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 455                                                                   
                                                                               
  JOYCE MOLDENHAUER testified via teleconference from Sterling                 
  in support of HB 154.  She read a news release from a doctor                 
  at a New York college claiming women younger than 33 years                   
  who had aborted their first pregnancy were at a greater risk                 
  of breast cancer than other women.  Her written testimony is                 
  on file in the committee room.                                               
                                                                               
  Number 471                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked whether the cancer statistics included                      
  women who later had live births.                                             
                                                                               
  MS. MOLDENHAUER answered yes.                                                
                                                                               
  MARY SOLTIS, a psychiatric nurse, testified via                              
  teleconference from Kodiak in support of HB 154.  She called                 
  abortion a mechanical rape, after which the legislators and                  
  care-givers go free, but the woman goes to an emotional                      
  hell.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 503                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked Ms. Soltis if she felt that a women who had                 
  received sufficient information before an abortion would                     
  then choose not to go through with the procedure.                            
                                                                               
  MS. SOLTIS she said her testimony was based on her                           
  experience with mentally ill people who often have a history                 
  of sexual abuse.  She said 75 to 90 percent of her female                    
  patients who had been sexually abused had had abortions.                     
  She said she did not know if informed consent would                          
  discourage abortion, but women suffer emotional pain after                   
  realizing what they had done in getting an abortion.                         
                                                                               
  Number 523                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked Ms. Soltis if she had counseled women who                   
  gave informed consent but still suffered the regret of which                 
  she spoke.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. SOLTIS said she could not answer as she had dealt only                   
  with women who had not been informed and who felt guilty.                    
                                                                               
  Number 530                                                                   
                                                                               
  ALICE YOUNG, of Respect for Human Life, testified via                        
  teleconference from Sitka in support of HB 154.                              
                                                                               
  Number 535                                                                   
                                                                               
  DANIEL J. DAVIS testified via teleconference from Delta                      
  Junction in support of HB 154.  He said all medical                          
  procedures require informed consent, and the bill was a                      
  women's safety and right-to-know bill that would protect                     
  women from unethical treatment.                                              
                                                                               
  Number 560                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked Mr. Davis if he knew of clinics in Alaska                   
  that encouraged women to have abortions but did not inform                   
  women about the procedure.                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. DAVIS answered that he did not know of any in Alaska.                    
                                                                               
  Number 572                                                                   
                                                                               
  MICHAEL RAWALT testified via teleconference from Delta                       
  Junction in support of HB 154.  He said he could not                         
  conceive of undergoing a medical procedure without knowing                   
  the risks; that women have a right to know medical facts and                 
  circumstances relating to procedures as serious as                           
  abortions; and that the information should be available both                 
  in writing and orally.                                                       
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-35, SIDE A                                                           
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  DEBRA JOSLIN testified via teleconference from Delta                         
  Junction in support of HB 154, saying she had been treated                   
  like a number when she went to an abortion clinic to                         
  terminate her pregnancy.  While the clinic was not in                        
  Alaska, it could have been.  She said women have a right to                  
  know that abortion kills a baby.  She said she was not told                  
  how the abortion would affect her 20 years later, or that a                  
  family would have adopted her baby.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 060                                                                   
                                                                               
  DEBORAH MORRIS testified via teleconference from Kenai in                    
  support of HB 154.  She stated, "Many women and people do                    
  not know that the person in their womb is alive; they                        
  believe it is a glob of tissue.  They have a right to know                   
  what the baby is, looks like, and what it's doing and how                    
  it's growing.  The risks involved to their bodies, minds and                 
  their lives."  She said she received medical information                     
  before getting her wisdom teeth pulled, and believed women                   
  needed such information before abortions.                                    
                                                                               
  BETTIE L. DAVIS testified via teleconference from Kenai in                   
  support of HB 154, saying women needed information on                        
  abortion before deciding whether to abort a pregnancy.                       
                                                                               
  Number 112                                                                   
                                                                               
  GLENDA STRAUBE testified via teleconference from Anchorage                   
  opposing HB 154, but supporting the principle of informed                    
  consent prior to any medical procedure.  She asked why the                   
  sponsor of the bill had not recommended informed consent for                 
  all potentially dangerous medical procedures, not just                       
  abortion.  She said she had an abortion and was told of the                  
  possible repercussions, but had not experienced long-term                    
  emotional problems.  While not doubting the pain expressed                   
  by women who had had abortions, she said she had also                        
  experienced pain after giving up a child of hers for                         
  adoption.  She said no one had informed her prior to the                     
  adoption that her child would later be sexually and                          
  emotionally abused, and that it would cause her pain for                     
  years.  She asked why no one had proposed informed consent                   
  before adoption.  She questioned the real objective of                       
  HB 154.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 145                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked what other medical procedure performed in                    
  clinics, where standards are lower than in hospitals, might                  
  be more life-threatening than abortion.                                      
                                                                               
  Number 154                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. STRAUBE said she had never seen proof that clinics are                   
  more dangerous than hospitals.  She said it was                              
  inconceivable to put warnings into statute for all the                       
  hundreds of procedures that might be more dangerous than                     
  abortions, which she could not list, as she was not a                        
  doctor.                                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 170                                                                   
                                                                               
  ELIZABETH CURREY testified via teleconference from Anchorage                 
  in support of HB 154.  She said she had had an abortion, and                 
  described it as a frightening and lonely experience that                     
  left her depressed.  She said that God had forgiven her and                  
  that her baby was in heaven.                                                 
                                                                               
  (Rep. Brice departed at approximately 4:00 p.m.)                             
                                                                               
  Number 226                                                                   
                                                                               
  EILEEN BECKER testified via teleconference from Homer in                     
  support of HB 154.  She said she had counseled women with                    
  crisis pregnancies and said abortion creates problems for                    
  women that take years to manifest themselves.  She said                      
  doctors make money from treating infertility brought on by                   
  scarring caused by abortions.  She said a state that enacted                 
  a 24-hour waiting period saw a 50 percent drop in abortions.                 
  She stated that the "selective bullying" going on across the                 
  nation was bad and needed to stop, and that HB 154 was a                     
  step in that procedure.  She said women having abortions are                 
  in denial about the nature of their fetuses, and that once                   
  they knew more information, they change their opinions.                      
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY reminded Ms. Becker of the two-minute limit on                  
  testimony and asked her to conclude her testimony.                           
                                                                               
  Number 277                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked Ms. Becker if she believed that informed                    
  consent would reduce the trauma of abortion.  He also asked                  
  what she had meant by HB 154 being a step in the right                       
  direction, and what else she would want to happen.                           
                                                                               
  MS. BECKER responded, "Well, this is the beginning, I think,                 
  of some other things that we need to see established, but I                  
  really feel like this bill, as far as dealing with informed                  
  consent, is really important." She went on to say that 80                    
  percent of the women she had counseled and who had had                       
  abortions were not given all the facts they needed to make a                 
  good decision.  She said that if women who were feeling lost                 
  and alone were given the proper information before having an                 
  abortion, they would "make the decision for life."                           
                                                                               
  Number 311                                                                   
                                                                               
  MARTHA RESETARITS, A VOLUNTEER AT THE CRISIS PREGNANCY                       
  CENTER IN HOMER, testified via teleconference from Homer in                  
  support of HB 154.  She said she had an abortion, got                        
  minimum information, and still grieved over it.  She said                    
  many abortions would be averted if women were properly                       
  informed.                                                                    
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY announced that there would not be enough time                   
  to consider bills on the calendar other than HB 154.                         
                                                                               
  Number 338                                                                   
                                                                               
  STEPHANIE VIERIA testified via teleconference from Sitka in                  
  support of HB 154.  She read a statement from VIRGINIA                       
  PHILLIPS, an American Indian and Alaska Native spokesman for                 
  the National Right to Life organization, which is on file in                 
  the committee room.  The statement described a woman's pain                  
  during and after an abortion.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 354                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY announced that the committee would hear                         
  testimony by teleconference until 4:30 p.m., then take                       
  testimony from those attending the meeting in person in                      
  Juneau.                                                                      
                                                                               
  SUSAN MANYOKY testified via teleconference from Anchorage in                 
  support of HB 154.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 379                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. TERRY MARTIN testified in Juneau in support of HB 154.                  
  He said that doctors should explain medical procedures to                    
  women undergoing abortions, just as doctors explain the                      
  possible long-term risks of other medical procedures.  He                    
  said he could not believe that Alaska women did not want to                  
  be informed.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 412                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS asked Rep. Martin for supporting information                   
  to buttress his claim that abortion was the only medical                     
  procedure before which physicians were not required to                       
  obtain informed consent.                                                     
                                                                               
  REP. MARTIN offered to go to his office to get supporting                    
  documents.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 429                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. VEZEY asked for Rep. Martin to comment on the elements                  
  in the bill making failure to comply a class A misdemeanor.                  
                                                                               
  REP. MARTIN said he did not worry about the ramifications of                 
  the punishment as much as the need to provide people with                    
  information on the medical procedures they were about to                     
  undergo.                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 449                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY invited those testifying to mail in their                       
  testimony to the committee.                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 453                                                                   
                                                                               
  RUTH LISTER, OF THE INTERIOR ALASKA WOMEN'S POLITICAL                        
  CAUCUS, testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in                       
  opposition to HB 154.  She noted that abortion is a legal                    
  right and HB 154 would make exercise of that right more                      
  difficult and expensive.  She said abortion opponents were                   
  using informed consent as a ruse to dissuade women from                      
  having abortions.  She said the decision to abort or not is                  
  a personal choice, and women can already ask for help or                     
  information from whatever sources they choose.  She said                     
  doctors already provide information to their patients on any                 
  medical procedure, and a new law just for abortion was                       
  unnecessary.                                                                 
                                                                               
  Number 468                                                                   
                                                                               
  KRIS GROSE, OF THE INTERIOR ALASKA CHAPTER OF RIGHT TO LIFE,                 
  testified via teleconference from Fairbanks in support of                    
  HB 154.  She suggested amendments to require doctors to                      
  provide information on agencies providing alternatives to                    
  abortion to require a 48-hour waiting period before                          
  abortions, and to require parental notification and consent                  
  for abortion with a court-mandated judicial bypass.  She                     
  said that someone other than a doctor should be required to                  
  provide information to women seeking abortions, as the                       
  physician performing an abortion has a conflict of interest.                 
                                                                               
  (Rep. Vezey departed at 4:26 p.m.)                                           
                                                                               
  Number 485                                                                   
                                                                               
  DUANE CHRISTENSON testified via teleconference from Homer in                 
  support of HB 154.                                                           
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY closed off testimony from the teleconference                    
  sites and asked people who had not had the chance to testify                 
  to send their written testimony to the committee.  He then                   
  invited those in Juneau to testify.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 508                                                                   
                                                                               
  IDA BARNACK, PRESIDENT OF ALASKANS FOR LIFE, INC., testified                 
  in Juneau in support of HB 154.  She read a statement, which                 
  is on file in the committee room, saying that women deserve                  
  the same advance notice of the risks of an abortion as in                    
  any medical procedure.                                                       
                                                                               
  (Rep. Olberg departed at 4:30 p.m.  Remaining committee                      
  members at 4:30 p.m. were Reps. Nicholia, B. Davis, and                      
  Toohey.)                                                                     
                                                                               
  JOAN HEIDERSDORF testified in Juneau in support of HB 154.                   
  She said generic consent to a medical procedure is                           
  insufficient in dealing with abortion, which can have grave                  
  physical, psychological and emotional effects on a woman,                    
  about which she must be informed before she can give                         
  informed consent.  She said women must be given information                  
  about the age of their fetus and about alternatives to                       
  abortion.  She read from the survey conducted by Women                       
  Exploited By Abortion.                                                       
                                                                               
  TAPE 93-36, SIDE A                                                           
   Number 000                                                                  
                                                                               
  JOAN HEIDERSDORF continued, saying pro-choice women should                   
  all support HB 154.  She added that she felt the committee                   
  should hold additional hearings on the bill, given the                       
  number of people testifying.                                                 
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked if the subjects of the survey had had their                 
  abortions before the procedure was made legal.                               
                                                                               
  MS. HEIDERSDORF said she believed that was the case.                         
                                                                               
  JUDY CAVANAUGH, OF THE JUNEAU COALITION FOR PRO-CHOICE,                      
  testified in Juneau in opposition to HB 154, saying the                      
  coalition opposed the bill and urged the committee to oppose                 
  it as well.                                                                  
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked Ms. Cavanaugh why her coalition did not                      
  support the bill, as the American Medical Association and                    
  Alaska code both supported informed consent.                                 
                                                                               
  MS. CAVANAUGH, speaking as a registered nurse, said                          
  information was already given to women before their consent                  
  to an abortion.  She said informed consent is already a                      
  standard practice.                                                           
                                                                               
  Number 061                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT asked if she would change her mind if a clinic was                 
  not giving information prior to obtaining consent for an                     
  abortion.                                                                    
                                                                               
  MS. CAVANAUGH said the issue was between a woman and her                     
  physician.  She said that if informed consent was not                        
  obtained, then the physician involved would be the subject                   
  of lawsuits, and she did not know of any such lawsuits.                      
                                                                               
  Number 071                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said he knew that a great number of Alaska Natives                 
  were flown into cities for abortions in clinics, and they                    
  were not provided such information.                                          
                                                                               
  MS. CAVANAUGH repeated that this was a legal issue between                   
  the women and the physicians.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 080                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. NICHOLIA expressed disagreement with Rep. Kott's                        
  previous comment, saying that Alaska Natives would not                       
  undergo abortions without finding out what was happening to                  
  them.                                                                        
                                                                               
  SANDY SPARGO testified in Juneau in support of HB 154,                       
  saying she had not heard good reasons during testimony why                   
  the bill should not be passed and why a woman would not want                 
  to know the age of a fetus and her own dangers.  She stated,                 
  "I feel that there are women who feel themselves in a                        
  crisis, and when you're under a mode of crisis, you do not                   
  take into consideration at times your full mental power to                   
  ask a doctor what the legal applications could be to an                      
  abortion."                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 120                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE supported the idea that a woman should have all                   
  knowledge and information available to her.  He asked if Ms.                 
  Spargo believed that women did not have such information                     
  available.                                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 130                                                                   
                                                                               
  MS. SPARGO said yes, and that Reps. Martin, Kott and Hanley                  
  had information backing up that assertion.                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked whether Ms. Spargo believed that if women                   
  had more information they would not choose abortion.                         
                                                                               
  MS. SPARGO said she did not know, but she suspected that the                 
  pro-choice camp might fear that fewer women would chose                      
  abortion if provided more information about it.                              
                                                                               
  Number 141                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE asked if there was any way of knowing whether                     
  such information might make a woman who chose an abortion                    
  feel better about the decision in 10 or 15 years.                            
                                                                               
  MS. SPARGO said no.  She added that a doctor was ideally                     
  suited to providing information to a woman about the medical                 
  risks of the procedure.                                                      
                                                                               
  Number 160                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY closed public testimony on the bill and invited                 
  Rep. Kott to make a final statement.                                         
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said that he had been challenged by those on both                  
  sides of the abortion issue.  He repeated his request to the                 
  committee not to consider the bill as an impediment to a                     
  woman's right to an abortion.  He said it was an effort to                   
  address the concerns of constituents that they had not                       
  gotten enough information before undergoing abortions.  He                   
  said it was not an anti-woman bill at all.                                   
                                                                               
  Number 190                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS asked whether women had told him they had not                  
  received enough information, or no information at all, prior                 
  to their abortions.                                                          
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT answered that there seemed to be no guidelines for                 
  providing information at all, and a doctor had recommended                   
  the guidelines contained in the bill as a minimum amount of                  
  information to provide.  He said he was appalled that                        
  nurses, not doctors, provided important information to women                 
  considering an abortion.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 210                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. BUNDE said he understood the bill's intent, but did not                 
  believe that the committee would "get there."  He observed                   
  that some women experience long-term psychological ill                       
  effects from abortion, while others did not.  He said he                     
  wondered whether having been provided more information on                    
  abortion would really make a difference in the level of                      
  suffering some women felt years after their abortions.  He                   
  stated he did not know whether women could or could not                      
  honestly disavow responsibility for choosing to have an                      
  abortion, whether fully informed or not.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 241                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT agreed that the legislators could not speculate on                 
  such questions.  He said they did have an obligation to                      
  provide information to women, then leave it up to the women                  
  to make what decision they will, and suffer whatever ill                     
  feeling or psychological damage might occur.  He said the                    
  bill would neither restrict women nor advocate, but simply                   
  provide information.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 249                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. B. DAVIS asked Rep. Kott how the provisions in HB 154                   
  would be enforced, how it would affect doctors, and why the                  
  informed consent provision applied only to abortion and not                  
  to other surgical procedures.                                                
                                                                               
  Number 262                                                                   
                                                                               
  REP. KOTT said the bill set out plainly the uniform                          
  information that doctors had to provide.  He said it would                   
  be up to each physician to carry out the bill's provisions,                  
  and if they did not, then it would be up to the patient to                   
  report any failure to do so to the State Medical Board.                      
                                                                               
  Number 271                                                                   
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY announced that testimony on HB 154 was closed,                  
  and asked the will of the committee.                                         
                                                                               
  REP. G. DAVIS moved for adjournment.                                         
                                                                               
  CHAIR TOOHEY then ADJOURNED the meeting at approximately                     
  5:05 p.m.                                                                    
  The following bills were not heard:  HB 128 and HB 30.                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects