Legislature(1997 - 1998)
04/09/1997 05:02 PM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
April 9, 1997
5:02 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman
Representative Scott Ogan
Representative Mark Hodgins
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Ivan Ivan, Vice Chairman
Representative Gene Kubina
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HOUSE BILL NO. 198
"An Act relating to regional dive fishery development associations
and to dive fishery management assessments; and providing for an
effective date."
- MOVED CSHB 198(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE
*HOUSE BILL NO. 96
"An Act relating to appointments to the Board of Fisheries or the
Board of Game."
- MOVED HB 96 OUT OF COMMITTEE
(* First public hearing)
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 198
SHORT TITLE: DIVE FISHERY MANAGEMENT ASSN. & ASSESSMENT
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS, Hudson, Kookesh,
Grussendorf, Elton
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
03/14/97 668 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
03/14/97 668 (H) FSH, RESOURCES
04/09/97 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
BILL: HB 96
SHORT TITLE: BDS OF FISHERIES AND GAME QUALIFICATIONS
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) VEZEY
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/29/97 168 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)
01/29/97 168 (H) FSH, RESOURCES, FINANCE
04/09/97 (H) FSH AT 5:00 PM CAPITOL 124
WITNESS REGISTER
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS
Alaska State LEgislature
Capitol Building, Room 424
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3424
POSITION STATEMENT: Provided sponsor testimony on CSHB 198.
EDWARD GREY
147 Price Street
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-7880
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
LARRY TRANI, Representative
Alaska Harvest Divers, Sitka
2008 Halibut Point Road
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-8114
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
HARLEY ETHELBAH, Representative
Southeast Alaska Dive Harvester
Petersburg Chapter
P.O. Box 972
Petersburg, Alaska 99833
Telephone: (907) 772-2390
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 198.
CHUCK THOMPSON, Owner
F/V Darkstar
P.O. Box 2193
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: (907) 486-3034
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against CSHB 198.
VICTOR BUCHANAN
202 Center Street
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: (907) 485-1952
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 198.
STERLING SLITER, Representative
Alaska Harvest Divers Association
Ketchikan Chapter
P.O.Box 5581
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 225-7188
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against CSHB 198.
MELINDA WEST, Harvest Diver
P.O.Box 9493
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 723-5022
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against CSHB 198.
RAY CAMPBELL, Harvest Diver
P.O. Box 23216
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 247-3626
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against CSHB 198.
SCOTT THOMAS, Member
Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association
945 Lincoln Street
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 225-3189
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
RODNEY LINTON, Harvest Diver
852 Harding Street
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 225-3025
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
LANCE PHILMAN, Member
Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association
P.O.Box 5322
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 225-3868
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
RYAN MORIN, Member
Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association
P.O.Box 9493
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 247-8555
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
MICHAEL BANGS, President
Harvest Association
Petersburg Chapter
P.O. Box 1733
Petersburg, Alaska 99833
Telephone: (907) 772-3720
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
JIM DENNIS, Harvest Diver
P.O. Box 591
Craig, Alaska 99921
Telephone: (907) 826-3237
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
BRENT BAXTER, Harvest Diver
P.O.Box 384
Craig, Alaska 99921
Telephone: (907) 826-3057
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
DENNIS WATSON, Mayor
City of Craig
P.O. Box 725
Craig, Alaska 99921
Telephone: (907) 826-3438
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
GIG DECKER, Representative
Wrangell Divers Association
P.O. Box 2138
Wrangel, Alaska 99929
Telephone: (907) 874-3110
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
STEPHEN LACROIX
Norquest Seafood
P.O.Box 5686
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 225-6664
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
PETER METCALFE, Representative
Kake Travel Corporation
523 4th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 586-1166
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
CLAY BEZENEK,
Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association
P.O.Box 6464
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Telephone: (907) 2253738
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
AARON CUMMINGS, Representative
Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association
Petersburg Chapter
P.O. Box 949
Petersburg, Alaska 99833
Telephone: (907) 7723409
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
STEVEN DAUGHERTY, Assistant Attorney General
Natural Resources Section
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Telephone: (907) 465-3600
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 198.
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison
Office of the Commissioner
Department of Fish and Game
P.O. Box 25526
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Telephone: (907) 465-6143
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on CSHB 198 and against HB 96.
GEORGE ELIASON
102 Kuhnle Drive
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Telephone: (907) 747-6817
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198.
NANCY HILLSTRAND, Owner
Pioneer Alaskan Fisheries and Coal Point Trading Company
P.O. Box 170
Homer, Alaska 99603
Telephone: (907) 235-3877
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified in support of CSHB 198
and testified against HB 96.
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY
Alaska State Legislature
Capitol Building, Room 13
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Telephone: (907) 465-3719
POSITION STATEMENT: Provide sponsor testimony on HB 96.
NICK SZABO
P.O. Box 1633
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: (907) 486-3853
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 96.
NANCY MICHAELSON
HC 5 BOX 6916 F
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Telephone: (907) 745-6673
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 96.
MARTHA LEVENSALER
1921 Sunrise Drive
Anchorage, Alaska 99508
Telephone: (907) 277-6506
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 96.
SUZANNE PESCHIER, Volunteer
Alaska Environmental Lobby
P.O.Box 8867
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Telephone: Not provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified against HB 96.
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 97-17, SIDE A
Number 001
CHAIRMAN ALAN AUSTERMAN called the House Special Committee on
Fisheries meeting to order at 5:02 p.m. Members present at the
call to order were Representatives Austerman, Ogan and Hodgins.
Members absent were Representative Ivan and Kubina.
HB 198 - DIVE FISHERY MANAGEMENT ASSN. & ASSESSMENT
Number 040
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced the first order of business is HB 198,
"An Act relating to regional dive fishery development associations
and to dive fishery management assessments; and providing for an
effective date." He asked Representative Williams to introduce the
bill.
REPRESENTATIVE BILL WILLIAMS read the sponsor statement into the
record: "Southeast Alaska dive fishermen have been attempting for
the past decade to establish orderly, consistent and stable
fisheries capable of providing dependable economic opportunities
for themselves, their families and the communities of Southeast.
The urgency to create an economically viable fishery is highlighted
by the recent closure of the regions largest employer and other
related negative economic effects on the economy of Southeast
Alaska.
"Substantial untapped dive fishery resources have been identified
through diver and Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G)
underwater activities for over a decade. Many of the Southeast
communities have placed the development of the fisheries as a
priority item in economic development documents and locally
developed legislative budget priorities. The dive fishery
resources appear to be abundant and diverse throughout the region.
The small sea cucumber and geoduck fisheries in Southeast have a
combined annual ex-vessel value of $2.0 million to $2.5 million.
In California, the urchin fishery has ranged in ex-vessel value
from $16 million to $39 million from 1990 through 1996. Geoducks
range in price from $6 a pound, live to $3.50 a pound, processed.
Alaskan waters contain abundant amounts of these fishery resources
plus many others not currently harvested. This legislation would
encourage the identification and development of these resources.
The potential for the future jobs for harvesters, processors and
support industries, is considerable.
"The commitment to work together is evidenced in the red sea urchin
fishery. In 1996, the department, after a test fishery, was unable
to open the red sea urchin fishery because of lack of funding.
Based on positive results in the test fishery and a vision to
diversify and develop their local economy, the Ketchikan Gateway
Borough provided funding for the department to conduct
bioassessment surveys needed to open the fisheries. The Borough
continued in its involvement by facilitating and participating in
a local task force comprised of Borough personnel, divers,
processors and the department. The resulting plan was for
processors to "forward fund" the management costs of the fishery
with agreements to recoup their funding through a $.05 assessment
on divers. Thus, in January 1997, a red sea urchin fishery opened
in districts 1 through 4 in the Ketchikan and Craig areas.
"This temporary fishery opening is based on a one time source of
funding that will expire June 30, 1997. In order to continue the
fisheries, and develop the other fisheries resources, a stable
source of funding is necessary.
"The August 1996 red sea urchin management plan states: 'Developing
a long-term program to fund the costs of stock assessment, research
and management remains an outstanding issue. If sufficient funds
are not provided to the department each year, the fishery will not
open.' This is the dilemma divers face and HB 198 provides a
creative and progressive vehicle to move towards a solution.
"House Bill 198 does not mandate but allows the creation of
regional dive fishery development associations for the purpose of
developing dive fisheries and creating a working relationship
between the divers and the department to develop annual operating
plans. The legislation is permissive and once a regional
association is formed, divers can hold a ballot election of all
interim permit holders to answer two questions: 1) shall we assess
ourselves, and 2) at what rate shall we assess ourselves.
"If approved by election, divers would be assessed, the state would
collect, and the legislature may appropriate the assessment back to
the department. The appropriation will be based on the mutually
developed annual operating budget and plan. ADF&G would then fund
the specific purposes outlined in the legislation for the regional
dive fishery development association and the department.
"All the appropriate checks and balances are in place and all
parties are held accountable. In addition, all other fisheries
business taxes are collected and deposited into the general fund.
"House Bill 198 is a positive step forward by the private sector to
support economic development and diversification without seeking a
general fund appropriation. Time is of the essence. I would
appreciate your support of this legislation for passage this
session to keep the economic development for Southeast moving
forward."
Number 496
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS stated that there are letters in the packet
from the cities of Craig, Wrangell, the city and borough of Sitka,
Sitka Chamber of Commerce, Sitka Tribal Enterprises, Sitka Sound
Seafoods, Wrangel Fisheries Incorporated, Norquest Seafoods,
Seafood Producers Cooperative and members of the Alaska Harvest
Divers Association, Sitka Chapter and Southeast Alaska Harvest
Divers Association, Ketchikan Chapter.
Number 549
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that there is a committee substitute for
HB 198 and asked Representative Williams if CSHB 198 version T,
4/09/97, is the version he would like the committee to be working
off of.
REPRESENTATIVE WILLIAMS replied yes.
Number 591
REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS made a motion to adopt CSHB 198,
Version T, 4/09/97, as a work draft.
Number 606
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was an objection, Hearing none,
it was so ordered.
Number 643
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked if Chairman Austerman planned to move
the bill out tonight.
Number 652
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that it is his hope that it would be
moved out this evening.
Number 667
EDWARD GREY, testified via teleconference from Sitka, that he
supports this bill and he is a diver in the Sitka area. He stated
that since 1989 closure, divers have met with the ADF&G and had a
large number of unsuccessful bids to open up some of these areas.
What they have experienced since that time has been closure of
areas and quota reductions while there is large areas of
unharvested product. He stated that he is not here to bash ADF&G
but it has been a long time coming and the only feasible step is to
form this association. He stated his committment to the
association concept. The groups in the Southeast have been able to
work very well together in the past to do some good. He stated
that this bill is the most important and promising thing that has
happened to the dive fisheries in the ten years that he has been
involved. He stated that it is key to have sustainable fisheries
in the future to do the work that we need to do.
Number 874
LARRY TRANI, Representative, Alaska Harvest Divers, Sitka,
testified via teleconference from Sitka, that the statement he is
about to give is based on the unanimous vote of the membership. He
stated that for the past decade they have consistently tried to
expand existing fisheries and develop fisheries that aren't opened.
He stated that it has not happened due to budget constraints and
now as the oil well dries up, ADF&G is faced with more and more
decreased revenues and the fisheries are not going to be expanded
fisheries without some mechanism by which to do that. He stated
that due to this reality the divers have put forth this bill. He
stated that this is the only real way we can go about expanding
existing fisheries and develop new fisheries. He encouraged the
committee to pass the bill.
Number 956
HARLEY ETHELBAH, Representative, Southeast Alaska Dive Harvester,
Petersburg Chapter, testified via teleconference from Petersburg,
that this bill, if passed, gives the chance to expand the dive
fishery as wanted for a long time. He stated that without this
bill it would take a long time to get things done through ADF&G,
since they are not able to come up with the funding that is always
needed. The bill will allow things to get done at a faster rate,
expand new fisheries rather than watching them slide.
Number 1047
CHUCK THOMPSON, Owner, F/V Darkstar, testified via teleconference
from Kodiak, that he represents, in the dive community, 30 to 40
percent of the product that is delivered in Kodiak. He stated that
they have been managing the fishery with ADF&G through production
yearly, without the department or the fisherman having to put out
any funds, for any kind of association. The department has been
sucessful with each area continuing to produce the poundage and the
amount of product that they have wanted to come out of the area.
He stated that he is against the bill and feels that there is too
much undercurrent where he may be forced to have some kind of
assessment to perform the fishery. He felt that he has been very
sucessful in the fishery as it stands and the money and time that
would be needed to put man hours on the bottom of the ocean would
take a major amount of funds away from the divers. Most of the
major producers in Kodiak do not have the time to put in which
would result in bringing outsiders in to learn the grounds. There
is too much that can happen to the fishery when it can be
controlled by outside forces. He stated that there could be a
hidden agenda by outside financing, by canneries that would like to
gain some control over this fishery. He stated that they sometimes
sail two days to an area to get the production that they need to
get. He stated that he does not think there needs to be any more
state laws made to control the fishery or effect the production.
Number 1239
VICTOR BUCHANAN, testified via teleconference from Kodiak, that he
tried to get an urchin fishery going for Southeast Alaska four
years ago. The department denied him the chance even though he
offered to put up $150,000 because they did not have a management
plan. He said, "they seem to feel, that now somebody else with
maybe some higher power, or higher dollars, decided that there is
a valuable urchin resource down in Southeast and I want to know why
we are not included in it." He stated that he makes half his
income off of the dive fishery, and at his expense he surveyed from
Kodiak Island to Cape Douglas to False Pass. He stated that they
want to shut them out of the Southeast fishery and he does not
understand why they should be controlled when ADF&G wouldn't help
them when they asked for help.
Number 1420
STERLING SLITER, Representative, Alaska Harvest Divers Association,
Ketchikan Chapter, testified via teleconference from Ketchikan,
that the association is opposed to the bill because they believe
that the state should fund dive fisheries the same way it funds all
other fisheries in the state. He stated that the he has heard that
the Senate will propose language to delete the word cooperative
from the phrase cooperative management, which is used over 50 times
in the original bill. If that version of the bill is passed, it
will mean that divers will not have a say in the management of
their dive fishery, which they were led to believe that this tax
will allow for. He stated that they will be taxing themselves to
fund a fishery that should be funded by the state of Alaska through
the Department of Fish and Game budget's process. He stated that
the House budget included $171,000 for the management of the sea
urchin fishery for the next season. The House passed the budget
last week and it was sent to the Senate. He stated that they have
line itemed $91,600 of the Senate budget to manage the sea urchin
fishery for the next season. He stated that these budgets have not
been passed but it looks like they will be funding the fishery for
the next year. He stated that once the legislature and the
governor realizes the economic boost this multi-million dollar
fishery will bring to the state of Alaska, the commissioner of fish
and game will move the urchin fishery from a emerging fishery to an
established fishery in the next year. He stated that we need the
help of all divers to show a unified front by getting behind the
need for state funding, not state taxing. He asked for letters or
faxes to be sent to the Representatives, Senators and the Governor,
letting them know that over 530 divers and the hundreds of jobs
that they create is economically good for Southeast Alaska. He
stated that the jobs are important with the closing of the mills in
Sitka, Wrangell and Ketchikan. He stated that these jobs do not
need to be created, they are here and only lack the appropriate
funding, which should come from the state of Alaska not by the
divers. He stated it would be unconstitutional since no other
fishery pays a management tax.
Number 1542
MELINDA WEST, Harvest Diver, testified via teleconference from
Ketchikan, that she and her husband, also a diver, are against the
bill. She stated that they have collected over 40 signatures of
the working divers who also oppose the bill, she stated that a lot
of them are diving and can not testify. She stated they are
opposed to the bill, on the grounds that the bill is
unconstitutional and discriminatory against one user group. She
stated that she has calculated the numbers on current quotas
allocated to the dive fisheries. A tax amounting to 14 percent
would be required to manage and enforce the dive fishery and
support the dive association that is attached to the bill. She
stated that this is the makings of a special interest money,
possibly bribery and racketeering. In order to make this a fair
playing field, this tax should be across the board, to the salmon,
halibut, crab and other fisheries. She stated that there will
always be the quotient that who ever has the most money gets the
attention of ADF&G. She believes that this is why the state has
always funded ADF&G through the raw fish tax, not special interest,
and should be continued to be funded by this method. She stated
that the dive fisheries will be paying a 3 percent raw fish tax
next year, which means that they will be paying for the management
of the fishery twice. She stated that if these dive fisheries were
to expand and stabilize the three percent raw fish tax would
generate more than enough revenue to be self sustaining. If the
bill does go through she would like the following to be done: The
user paid tax be implemented across the board to all fisheries;
cooperative management remain in the bill; delete the ability to
use the tax for the dive association management funding; delete the
90 days on the purchase of permits prior to voting because we do
not feel there will be a large enough group voting on this self
tax. She stated that she would like to ear mark this tax so that
the divers do not need to retain a lobbyist to get the tax back,
which is an added expense. She stated that if the divers pay the
cost for management then the divers are paying the price to be the
boss, therefore, we would like to see the competitive bids for
management of the dive fisheries. She stated that no consideration
should be given to any kind of unproven method of self tax, that
singles out a certain user group to fund the management of this
fishery.
Number 1710
RAY CAMPBELL, Harvest Diver, testified via teleconference from
Ketchikan, that he got cut out of most of the dive fisheries due to
the moratorium last year, the reason being that the dive fisheries
could not develop without an moratorium to take an assessment. He
stated that since he was in one dive fishery he is going to have to
pay for the development of a fishery that he is not involved in.
He stated that he opposes the bill. He stated that he does not
like to see four fisheries lumped under one heading, they should be
managed individually.
Number 1775
SCOTT THOMAS, Member, Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association,
testified via teleconference from Ketchikan, in support of the
bill. He stated that it would not be his first choice but it is
clear from the test fishery last year that there was no money to
manage and develop these fisheries. He stated that this is really
the only viable way that the dive fisheries are going to be able to
assess, manage and develop these fisheries. He stated it is
contingent on getting good, active people in the association that
want to dedicate there time to develop these fisheries.
Number 1899
RODNEY LINTON, Harvest Diver, testified via teleconference from
Ketchikan, in support of the bill. He stated that it is really
imperative that we have proper funding to keep the fishery viable
and alive. He stated that it would enable expansion into the new
fisheries that do not exist. He stated that he is concerned about
the cooperative management clause being taken out of the bill and
would not support that.
Number 1942
LANCE PHILMAN, Member, Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association,
testified via teleconference from Ketchikan, in support of the
bill.
Number 1960
RYAN MORIN, Member, Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association,
testified via teleconference from Ketchikan, in support of the
bill.
Number 1990
MICHAEL BANGS, President, Harvest Association, Petersburg Chapter,
testified via teleconference from Craig, that the association voted
unanimously in support of the bill. He stated that in future it
can be cancelled by a vote of all the permit holders if the
assessment is not needed. He stated that when ADF&G does the
surveys to develop a dive fishery it is a lot more expensive than
it is for salmon or any other fishery because of having to dive.
He stated that an increase in budget would still not cover the cost
and that is why the divers need to play an active part in the co-
operative management plan. He stated that there is no other
option.
Number 2081
JIM DENNIS, Harvest Diver, testified via teleconference from Craig,
that he has been diving since 1982. He stated that he is in
support of the bill because the state does not have the money, it
is the only option.
Number 2123
BRENT BAXTER, Harvest Diver, testified via teleconference from
Craig, in support of the bill.
Number 2134
DENNIS WATSON, Mayor, City of Craig, testified via teleconference
from Craig, in support of the bill. He stated that there are a lot
of economic benefits from the jobs in the dive fishery.
Number 2182
GIG DECKER, Representative, Wrangell Divers Association, stated
that the two people in Kodiak who testified that the bill had
discriminatory wording are taking over half of the resource. Three
of the people from Ketchikan that testified were involved in the
test fishery that took over 3 million pounds, there was only one
company buying, of which he was excluded from. He stated that he
has been a full time commercial fisherman in Alaska for 25 years
and a commercial diver for nine years. He stated that he totally
supports the legislation.
Number 2239
STEPHEN LACROIX, Norquest Seafood, stated that they have bought and
processed over 450,000 pounds of urchins. He stated that to
demonstrate the support of the divers they currently have a 5 cent
a pound voluntary assessment, and so far they have collected
$23,000, the indication is strong diver support. He stated that
this resource allows the company to turn 70 people from being
seasonal help to being full time employees and members of the
community. He stated for every diver on the water there are
between five or six workers in the plant.
Number 2320
PETER METCALFE, Representative, Kake Travel Corporation, which owns
Kake Fisheries and Pelican Seafoods and employs hundreds of people
in seafood processing as well as, processes millions of pounds of
seafood a year. He stated that last winter the corporation
employed over 45 villagers processing sea urchins. He stated that
the corporation supports the intent of the bill, as understood to
create a funding mechanism for emerging fisheries. He stated that
the corporation sees a lot of potential in the fisheries and a lot
of potential employment opportunities for rural and urban
residents, especially in the winter months. He stated that the
corporation has a strong problem with the dive fishery association
being 100 percent divers. He stated that there should be broader
representation on the association and processors have a lot to add
to this, it is a cooperative association with divers, as they are
in charge of the dive program. He stated that other gear types
should be represented on this association because these emerging
fisheries are not necessarily dive fisheries. He stated that there
is the possibility of different harvesting techniques in sea
urchins alone and there is the possibility of the pot fishery. He
stated that their position is one of support in the intent of the
bill which is to find a funding mechanism. He stated that the bill
would be very much strengthened if the association were opened up
to a broader representation than just permitted to dive fishermen.
He stated that to his knowledge there are no commercial divers in
Kake and feel that this small community would not be heard in such
an association.
Number 2439
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if his understanding was correct he was
suggesting that the processing industry have representation in the
association.
Number 2442
MR. METCALFE replied that the corporation would be supportive of
this bill if it was non-exclusive and open to processors. He
stated that Representative Williams expressed the concern that such
an association understand the challenges and dangers of the dive
fishery. If the corporation were to nominate anyone to serve on
that dive fishery he would be certain it would be someone who
understood dive fisheries. He felt that they offer a perspective
that it is not represented on the proposed association.
TAPE 97-17, SIDE B
Number 001
CLAY BEZENEK, Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers Association, stated
that he has been fishing in Alaska for fifteen years. He stated
that he is in full support of the bill. The bill gives divers a
reliable funding source for all developing fisheries it also gives
a direct link for a co-operative working relationship with ADF&G.
He stated that the dive fisheries are unique in that the gear used
is a human being, resulting in special considerations, which the
bill addresses. It gives the assurance of a funding source for
years to come. He stated that as a commercial salmon fisherman he
is completely satisfied with the job our aquaculture associations
are doing with their assessment.
Number 052
AARON CUMMINGS, Representative, Southeast Alaska Harvest Divers
Association, Petersburg Chapter, stated that the chapter of 25
divers is unanimously in support of the bill. He stated that every
time he has left and returned from participating in various other
fisheries as far as the International Dateline, not even 10-15
miles away from his home town, he was crossing volumes of product
there for harvesting, which has been so undeveloped it has
impossible for him to make a living entirely in that region. This
bill would expand the fishery to a point where it would be
profitable so he would not have to go to waters outside Alaska to
fish.
Number 128
STEVEN DAUGHERTY, Assistant Attorney General, Natural Resources
Section, Department of Law, stated that he is not testifying
because they are any legal problems with the bill but because he
was requested to testify on a possible proposed amendment. He
stated that there was some impetus for a provision in the bill that
would provide an incentive for instate processing. He stated that
there are some constitutional problems with that. There is a U.S.
Supreme Court case based on an Alaskan processing requirement for
timber, that was found to be in violation of the Commerce Clause of
the United States. He stated that there was also a case dating
back to 1947, in which South Carolina attempted to require
fisherman to dock at a South Carolina Port, unload, pack and stamp
their catch, before transporting it out of state, which was also
found to be unconstitutional in violation of the Commerce Clause.
Number 214
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Fish and Game, stated that Alaska underutilized
species like the urchins, offer the opportunity to create new
fisheries the right way, avoiding some of the problems that have
plagued the traditional fisheries in their historic development.
He stated that the timing of this new opportunity coincides with a
time of reduced funding for fisheries management and development.
This is what prompted the introduction of this legislation to try
an provide a creative mechanism to fund the development of new
fisheries. He stated that there are no new general fund dollars
which are the dollars which fund commercial fisheries that are
being added to the budget, in fact the House budget proposes to
reduce the Department's funding by about $1 million, the Senate a
$2.4 million reduction, $1.7 million of that is specifically
targeted at the Commercial Fisheries Management and Development
Division. He stated that this has been going on for five or six
years, the money has not been provided by the legislature to manage
new fisheries. He stated that the department does applaud the
efforts involved in the bill, however, the bill is narrow in its
focus and is directed specifically at the funding issue and does
not address the broader policy issues that need to be addressed if
these new fisheries are to be sucessful. He stated that when a
fishery is developed it will be a fishery that Alaskans will be the
primary beneficiaries of and is sustainable.
Number 266
MR. BRUCE felt that just the funding issues can not just be focused
on, if it is going to be successful in developing these new
fisheries. He stated that the concerns are that the bill takes a
piece meal approach to the new developing fisheries. He stated
that there are a number of species that could be developed, and the
mechanism proposed in the bill does not necessary lend itself to
the broad range. He stated that the impetus is coming from the
Southeast fishermen but what they develop here to solve their
problems could become a precedent for other parts of the state
since it is statewide legislation.
Number 422
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that there has to be a starting point.
He stated that it can be expanded if there are other emergency
fisheries that we want to add into the concept. He asked if the
legislature waited for the each fishery to emerge in order to put
the whole package together where would we be.
Number 445
MR. BRUCE replied that it is a good point, buy the legislature
should look at a means of developing these fisheries that could be
applied in a wide variety of circumstances. He stated that he is
not making the point that we should wait until the fishery comes
along in order to develop it. He stated the point he is making is
that we do not want to be so specific and focused that it is not
broad enough or flexible enough to deal with other situations.
Number 473
MR. BRUCE continued that his comments should be taken as
constructive criticism as the department is trying to look at it
from a policy standpoint to make sure it is going in the right
direction. He stated that in the urchin fishery there is the
characteristic that a lot of the product is being processed out of
state. There may be incentives that can be created to keep the
industry in Alaska.
Number 558
MR. BRUCE stated that it was the department's view that all of the
stake holders effected by this fishery should be in this
association, not just the divers. He stated that the sponsor has
included a representative of the processing sector and a
representative of the local government, which has resolved that
concern. He stated that the private sector should not manage the
public resource itself and it is best done through dialogue between
the two groups but when, where, how large quota is, should be made
by people who don't have a vested interest in the industry. He
stated that this change was also made and that the sponsor is
willing to work on the other issues in the next committee.
Number 661
MR. BRUCE stated that the department is committed to sound
development of the state's fisheries resources that provide a
maximum benefit to Alaskans and is going to launch a major effort
to work with all involved to lay out various options that could be
used to develop the underutilized species in a way that considers
the board range of policy issues that we think are important. He
stated that they are committed to maintaining the urchin fishery
and seeing that the fishery goes on and has some level of
operational funds to support its management.
Number 748
MR. BRUCE stated that even though this is a self assessment tax
that fisherman are placing on themselves, it will go into the pot
of money and the legislature will determine whether or not that
money comes back into the department. He stated that there is no
guarantee, outside of the appropriation process, that the
department will ever see a dime of the money. He stated that if
the general fund for the department is capped or decreases, the
general fund includes program receipts which would be this category
of money. He stated that if there is $250,000 in general fund
program receipts associated with the urchin fishery, paid by the
fisherman, and the legislation places a cap, the department would
have to find $250,000 worth of cuts in order to stay within the
cap. Therefore other fisheries would receive reduced funding in
order to fund the other option. He stated that a solution would be
the Governor's bill which would create a new category of funding
called a designated program receipt, which would be made up of
money contributed for specific programs in government and would not
be considered as part of the general fund appropriation. He stated
that if the legislature decided to cut the department's general
fund it leaves the designated program receipt category to rise and
would allow it to fund the programs. He stated he would like to
encourage the supporters of this legislation to get behind the
bill, to enable the funds to go to the fisheries that it was
intended to manage. He stated that if over time this is proven to
not be the best way to manage the fishery, the issue can be
revisited.
Number 933
MR. BRUCE stated that both the legislative research agency and the
Department of Fish and Game have conducted studies looking at the
revenues and expenditures that come to the state's treasury from
fish and wildlife users and the expenditures made by state
government on fish wild life activities, whether it is management,
law enforcement or development activities. It was found that the
seafood industry contributes more money to the state treasury than
what is spent by the state government on the seafood industry which
has been especially true with the addition of the landing tax. He
stated that in 1996 the fisheries business tax was about $40
million, the other contributions made by the industry totaled about
$60 million, the fishery management general fund expenditures made
to the Department of Fish and Game was $20 million. He stated that
there is money being contributed by the seafood industry to pay for
the management of the state fisheries, the problem is that the
money is not appropriated to do the job, it is going to other
places.
Number 1063
GEORGE ELIASON, testified via teleconference from Sitka, that he is
here representing himself, two other divers and his two sons. He
stated that they all in are support of the bill. He stated that
they do not see another means to create the development of the dive
fisheries being that there are no funds available. He stated that
the dive seasons have been extremely short. He stated that passage
of the bill will create a long term viable and orderly dive fishery
for today's divers and for future generations.
Number 1128
NANCY HILLSTRAND, Owner, Pioneer Alaskan Fisheries and Coal Point
Trading Company, testified via teleconference from Homer, that she
supports the bill. She stated that the Department of Fish and Game
does not have the money to gather data on new and emerging
fisheries and without this data, management is lacking deeply. She
gave the example of the sea cucumber fishery in Kachemak Bay that
was opened with very little information to do so and the species is
closed from over harvest. Securing funding to gather information
is of the utmost importance and will protect the sustained yield
principle on these species by understanding these species more
fully. She felt that it might need to be amended to a broader
representation to assure all the user groups are included in the
fishery, not just the divers.
Number 1195
UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER, testifying via teleconference from
Craig, stated that there are six individuals who did not want to
testify, but did want to add their support to the bill.
Number 1229
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS made a motion to move CSHB 198(FSH), 0-
LS0415, Version T, with individual recommendations and the attached
fiscal note.
Number 1238
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there were any objections. Hearing
none CSHB 198(FSH), Version T was moved out of the House Special
Committee on Fisheries.
Number 1276
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN called for a brief at ease at 6:21.
HB 96 - BDS OF FISHERIES AND GAME QUALIFICATIONS
Number 1276
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN called the meeting back to order at 6:24 and
announced the next order of business to be HB 96, "An Act relating
to appointments to the Board of Fisheries or the Board of Game."
He asked Representative Al Vezey to introduce the bill.
Number 1303
REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY stated that the bill is intended to do
something positive on the issue of subsistence. The issue of
subsistence is one of the biggest issues and problems facing
Alaska. The bill recognizes that we are going to provide for the
subsistence needs for all of Alaska's citizens and we have to
manage our fish and game resources on a sustained yield basis,
towards the needs of consumptive users. He stated that if we are
not willing to manage our fish and game resources for consumptive
users than we are saying that it is not our policy to recognize
subsistence as one of our top priorities. The intent of the bill
is to do something positive about subsistence at the state level.
Number 1392
NICK SZABO, testified via teleconference from Kodiak, that he
served on the Board of Fisheries for seven years. He stated that
he supports the concept of the bill but some of the conflicts that
arise with the present board is that sometimes members only have a
limited experience in a relatively specific areas of interest. He
stated that the best situation is not to have seven specialists but
to have seven people with broad experience for many years in
several area of interest to the board. He stated serving on the
local advisory committee is an excellent way to achieve knowledge
and experience in the issues which the board deals with, but using
this as the only qualification may exclude some potential
candidates that are otherwise just as qualified. He stated a point
system may want to be considered with a minimum number of points
necessary to qualify for a seat on the board. Points would be
gained for each year on a local fish and game advisory committee,
for residency in the state, for years as a sport fishing or
commercial fishing license holder, for years in sport fish guiding,
for sport fish area experience, for each commercial fishery
involved in, for each commercial fishing area, for fish processing
or tendering, for years in fish and game research and management
and points for years as a fishing industry representative. He
stated that he thinks the concept is great but there needs to be
some qualifications in place to have a seat on the board.
Number 1580
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if he could send a copy of his testimony
to him so he could forward it on the next committee of referral.
Number 1600
MR. SZABO replied that he would.
Number 1604
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that he would research the category of
a licensed fish processor because that is a category of experience
in consumptive use that he had not thought of and would like to
look into it. He also stated he would look into licensed charter
boat operators.
Number 1653
NANCY MICHAELSON, testified via teleconference from Matsu, strongly
opposed to the bill. She stated that the requirement to have all
members of the Board of Game and Board of Fisheries to have held
hunting and trapping licenses and/or fishing licenses for five of
the last seven years, will not provide good boards in the state.
The job of the Board of Game, as stated in this bill, is to manage
the wildlife and its use by hunters and trappers, it is important
and good to have hunters on the board, but it is important and good
to have knowledgeable people who are informed about the management
of Alaska's game on the board. She stated that Section 2,
paragraph b, states that the purposes are the conservation and the
development of game resources. She stated that the new underlined
text in line 13, that says "each member on the basis of interest in
resource issues, support of the sustained yield principle, good
judgement, knowledge of the game resources of the state". She
stated that following this will provide a wise board.
Number 1748
MS. MICHAELSON stated that Section 1, lines 13 through 14, the
appointed members must have held an Alaska fishing license during
each of the five years, could create the situation that just
because someone could get a fishing license it does not mean that
they would understand all the intricacies of the management that is
needed for fisheries in Alaska. She questioned if a disability or
growing old, eliminates knowledge and experiences. She felt that
the bill is discriminatory toward women, the elderly and the
disabled. She stated the bill is not fair legislation as written
and urged the deletion of Section 1 lines 12 through 14 and Section
2, lines 17 through 18, or oppose the bill if it goes on as
written. She would like the bill to be passed in a way that would
constitute boards which will fulfill their duties to the utmost
while more fairly representing all Alaskans, with members who are
highly knowledgeable and informed about Alaskan wildlife, whether
they have fishing, hunting, or trapping licenses or not. She
stated that in order for the resources to remain healthy, having
people who are knowledgeable about the management is just as
important as having something in their wallet.
Number 1903
MARTHA LEVENSALER, testified via teleconference from Anchorage,
referred to Section (b) of the bill and stated that having a
hunting or trapping license during each of the five years
immediately proceeding appointment to the board is not the best
requirement for a board member. Having people that are
knowledgeable about wildlife and game management is a far broader
and more important requirement and does not know if having a
hunting and trapping license ensures that. She stated that she
finds this section to be discriminatory against women in that more
than 85 percent of Alaskans do not hold hunting and trapping
licenses and women hold 6 percent of the licenses and make up 48
percent of the population. She stated that women have strong
interest and management experience in game issues. She felt that
this bill goes against the constitution which states that fish,
wildlife, and waters are reserved for the people for common use and
that the laws and regulations governing the use or disposal of
natural resources shall apply equally to all persons. She stated
that by restricting membership to both of these boards by people
who hold licenses goes against what is written in the constitution.
Number 2065
NANCY HILLSTRAND, testified via teleconference from Homer, that she
really liked Mr. Szabo's idea of a point system. She stated that
she has been very active in both fishing and wildlife issues. She
owns three fishing vessels, her husband has fished for 40 years,
her five sons are all in the fishing industry, and have all trapped
and hunted. She has been the secretary of the Homer Advisory
Committee for nine years but yet she does not have a hunting or
fishing license so this would eliminate her. She stated that they
own a seafood processing plant and have a mail order retail seafood
business, but with all this experience she still not would be able
to be on the boards. She stated that the bill does not notice
people who have devoted their lives to fishing and hunting issues.
She felt that a point system that emphasizes information that
people have gathered throughout their life time, will give a
broader and more diverse board than just one that is directed
towards one idealogy. She stated that being on the Homer Advisory
Board, the men on it knew how to pull a trigger but when it came to
habitat issues, genetics, or any of the important issues providing
for the sustained yield principle, they did not have a good enough
background to be on the board. She hoped that the committee would
rethink and amend the bill and would like to see a point system.
Number 2293
MS. HILLSTRAND stated that she has worked on legislation in the
last eight years to try and form a conservation tag and hoped that
maybe some legislation would be introduced so that people that do
not use the resource consumptively could have a place to put their
money.
Number 2380
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked how long did she say she served on the
advisory board.
MS. HILLSTRAND replied that she had been on the board as secretary
for nine years.
Number 2398
REPRESENTATIVE OGAN thanked her for her service to the state and
stated that a secretary of anything is a big service to people.
TAPE 97-18, SIDE A
Number 006
SUZANNE PESCHIER, Volunteer, Alaska Environmental Lobby, stated
that the resource provides exceptional opportunities for hunting,
trapping, photography, research and recreation as well as income to
businesses that are related to these activities. She stated that
since Alaska's wildlife is so important to all these diverse
interest groups both economically and aesthetically. All these
interests should be allowed representation on the Board of Game,
the bill would prevent this from happening because it discriminates
against a large segment of Alaska's population. The intent of the
bill is to have a board that only represents consumptive users.
She stated that more than 80 percent of all Alaskans do not have
hunting or trapping licenses and would not qualify to serve on the
board. She stated only 5 percent of Alaskan women have licenses
even though they make up 48 percent of the population. She stated
that the bill contradicts the original wording of the statute,
which states that "Board members shall be appointed with the view
to providing diversity of interest and points of view in the
membership." It also ignores Article 8, Section 3 of the
constitution, which states "Wildlife shall be managed for the
common use of all Alaskans." She stated that if the intent of the
bill is to put the authority to manage Alaska's wildlife in the
hands of hunters and trappers because they contribute the most
money to the budget of the Division of Wildlife Conservation, it
would be more constructive to seek common ground between different
interests rather than passing such a devisive bill. She stated
that the Division reserves all its funds from two sources,
dedicated funds from hunting and trapping licenses and the other
source, which contributes over 50 percent of the money, is the
federal excise tax on ammunition and firearms. She stated that
under the Federal Aid and Wildlife Restoration Act, all firearms
and ammunition are taxed, not just those for hunting purposes,
therefor there is money that comes from sources other than hunters.
For instance, a kayaker, a musher or a photographer who carries a
weapon for protection would be contributing. She stated it does
seem plausible to increase the funds that other interest groups pay
into wildlife management and give them the voice that they seem so
eager to have. There is a history of conservation groups seeking
to create such a program but has not had the support of the
legislature. She stated that there is a federal proposal that is
being drafted called teaming with wildlife, which has the
endorsement of the Governor and a variety of hunting, fishing and
recreational organizations in Alaska. This program would raise a
substantial amount money which would be contributed to wildlife
management. She stated that by allowing the consumptive and non-
consumptive users to sit at the management table, would give the
Board of Game the balance that the public is seeking.
Number 368
GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,
Department of Fish and Game, stated that the department does not
support the bill. He referred to the history of Alaska,
particularly the relationship between the citizens of Alaska and
the federal government during territorial days. Alaskans felt that
their natural resources were dominated by certain special interest
groups especially the out of state canners which propelled
statehood. As a result in the state constitution and in the
statutes that establish the board system, the people of Alaska
provided for the most open, most participatory fish and game
decision making process possible, so that all citizens could
participate in this process. Mr. Bruce stated that although he
understood Representative Vezey's thinking it is a departure from
the historic philosophy that has guided Alaska up to this point.
He stated that the present system has served the state well, there
is abundant fish and wildlife, as well as abundant opportunities to
hunt and fish with strong economies based around wildlife guided
hunting, viewing, sport fishing and commercial fishing. He stated
that the subsistence issue is a dilemma facing the state but it is
his understanding that the boards can not solve the subsistence
problem, it is a basic conflict between federal law, state
constitution and state law. He stated that changing the
representation on the board to solely consumptive users will not
result in any change in the subsistence dilemma.
Number 666
MR. BRUCE stated that even if consumptive use is the priority use
of the state, it would be a leap to say that the only people that
should be able to make decisions about these resources are
consumptive users. Other users need to be respective and be
allowed to participate in the process. He stated that they should
not be excluded from the process.
Number 725
MR. BRUCE stated that catch and release fisherman even though they
do not consume the resource should have a seat at the table. He
stated that anybody can get a hunting or fishing license and it
does not give a measure of qualification. He stated that
participation in the local advisory committees is a good measure of
commitment to being involved in the issues and does give a good
indication but there are other ways to get the experience. He
stated that a lot of people would be excluded from the board if
they had to participate on an advisory committee, because although
they may attend the meetings most of them are not on the board. He
stated that it would be equivalent to saying that in order to serve
on the legislature one would have had to serve on a city council or
borough assembly.
Number 914
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that he agreed with a lot that was said
but he disagrees with the fact that he does think the subsistence
problem in Alaska can be addressed. He stated that he does not see
how the subsistence issue can be addressed with out recognizing
that consumptive uses are the highest priority. He stated that if
consumptive uses are not the highest priority for Alaska's fish and
game resources than subsistence isn't the highest priority in the
state either.
Number 972
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that on line 13, page 1, if they must
be a resident and have held fishing license for five years that
would indicate that would had to lived in the state for five years.
He wondered if there was a better way of portraying that and felt
that he wouldn't hold the bill in this committee if he was assured
that there would be some changes made in the next committee.
Number 1032
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY replied that he would be very interested in
hearing from one of the testifiers in Kodiak who made some
interesting comments. He stated that they may have been some
licenses that they have inadvertently not included. He stated that
he is not sure about the point system but would be willing to look
at it. He stated that the bill recognizes the existing standard
that the governor appoints and the legislature confirms. He stated
that the bill states that "The appointed members must be residents
of the state." He believed that would require one year residency.
He stated that it probably could be argued legally that it was only
30 days but his interpretation would be that it would require one
year of residency. He stated that in the case of Section 1, they
would have to have five years of holding an Alaskan fishing
license. He stated that nonresident licenses are not excluded from
that category. He found it difficult to believe that the Governor
would appoint a nonresident or that the Legislature would confirm
a non resident but there may be a case where they would.
Number 1117
REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS made a motion to move HB 96, 0-LS0398,
Version E, with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal
note.
Number 1135
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN objected to make a statement. He stated that
while there is some credibility to the bill, he shares some of the
concerns that were expressed. He stated that by moving the bill
forward to the House Resources Standing Committee, some of the
issues can be discussed, and he would be looking at the amendments
that result. He stated that he is not sold that he would vote for
this bill on the Floor but it should move forward in the system and
have more discussions at other committees.
Number 1181
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN withdrew his objection.
Number 1187
REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that he would have no objection to the
committee working on the bill.
Number 1216
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN replied that although it has a direct impact on
the fisheries and the Board of Fish, it also has the impact on the
game and Board of Game, and it would be natural for the House
Resources Standing Committee to spend some time on this bill.
Number 1245
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there were any further objections.
Hearing none HB 96, 0-LS0398 was moved out of the House Special
Committee on Fisheries.
ADJOURNMENT
Number 1251
CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the House Special Committee on
Fisheries at 7:00 p.m.
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