Legislature(1993 - 1994)
02/23/1994 08:30 AM House FSH
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES
February 23, 1994
8:30 a.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Carl E. Moses, Chair
Representative Harley Olberg, Vice Chair
Representative Gail Phillips
Representative Irene Nicholia
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Cliff Davidson
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 496: "An Act relating to sport fish guides; and
providing for an effective date."
HELD IN COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION
(* First public hearing)
WITNESS REGISTER
PETER ECKLUND, Legislative Staff
Representative William K. Williams
Capitol Building, Room 128
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: 465-3424
POSITION STATEMENT: Presented Sponsor Statement for HB 496
PAUL KRASNOWSKI, Director
Division of Sport Fish
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
1255 W. 8th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 465-6184
POSITION STATEMENT: Department of Fish & Game supports
HB 496
FRANK HOMAN, Commissioner
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission
Alaska Department of Fish & Game
1255 W. 8th Street
Juneau, Alaska 99811
Phone: 789-6160
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports the concept behind HB 496
BILL FOSTER, Representative
Sitka Charter Boat Operators
2810 SMC
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Phone: 747-6711
POSITION STATEMENT: Still evaluating HB 496
JAY SKORDAHL
Charter Boat Operator
Box 2826
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Phone: 747-6024
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 496
GARY PLUMB
Ketchikan Charter Boat Operator
441 Hillcrest
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: 225-6409
POSITION STATEMENT: Asked if HB 496 addressed liability
insurance and drug testing
requirements on charter vessels
ED STAHL
Charter Boat Operator
651 Deerberry Ct
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: 247-2481
POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested lower license fees for
weekend operators and tax incentives
DONALD WESTLUND
Charter Boat Operator
P.O. Box 7883
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: 225-9319
POSITION STATEMENT: Regulation of charter boats by limited
entry is a constitutional problem
DENNIS KETCHAM
Charter Boat Operator
2343 2nd Avenue
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: 225-7774
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
ERIC JORDAN
Charter Boat Operator
103 Gibson Place
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Phone: 747-6743
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 496
DENNIS PEIRE
Salcha Resident
5901 Boondox Drive
Salcha, Alaska 99714
Phone: 488-4589
POSITION STATEMENT: Supported HB 496
RIK VAN STONE
Fairbanks Resident
375 Miller Hill Road
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Phone: 479-2732
POSITION STATEMENT: Doesn't oppose HB 496, yet fees
should be charged biannually
BILL GAVIN
Soldotna Resident
P.O. Box 3628
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Phone: 262-5378
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
JEFF KING
Charter Boat Operator
Box 2711
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Phone: 262-4504
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
THEODORE JOHNSON
Homer Charter Boat Operator
347 Riverside Drive
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Phone: 235-6212
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
PAUL GOEDERT
Charter Boat Operator
P.O. Box 39415
Ninilchik, Alaska 99639
Phone: 567-3665
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
TIM EVERS, Representative
Deep Creek Charter Boat Association
P.O. Box 423
Ninilchik, Alaska 99639
Phone: 567-3518
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
MIKE SWAN, Representative
Homer Charter Association
P.O. Box 2397
Homer, Alaska 99603
Phone: 235-3978
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposes additional $200 fee
CHETT CUNDIFF, Owner
Good Time Charters
P.O. Box 636
Anchor Point, Alaska 99556
Phone: 235-8579
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
ED DERSHAM
Anchor Point Charter Operator
P.O. Box 537
Anchor Point, Alaska 99556
Phone: 235-5555
POSITION STATEMENT: The information is already available
ROBERT WARD, Owner
A-Ward Charters
P.O. Box 631
Anchor Point, Alaska 99556
Phone: 235-7014
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
ROGER WATNEY
Anchor Point Charter Boat Operator
P.O. Box 511
Anchor Point, Alaska 99556
Phone: 235-4063
POSITION STATEMENT: Suggested higher nonresident fee
SEAN MARTIN, Representative
Homer Charter Association
P.O. Box 148
Homer, Alaska 99603
Phone: 235-2282
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
RON MCKINSTRY, Owner
Eagle Spirit Charters
P.O. Box 1525
Homer, Alaska 99603
Phone: 235-6608
POSITION STATEMENT: Opposed HB 496
JOHN GEORGE, Lobbyist
Alaska Outdoor Council
9515 Moraine Way
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: 789-0172
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 496
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 496
SHORT TITLE: SPORT FISH GUIDE LICENSING
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) WILLIAMS
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/14/94 2381 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/14/94 2381 (H) FSH, RESOURCES, FINANCE
02/23/94 (H) FSH AT 08:30 AM CAPITOL 17
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 94-10, SIDE A
Number 000
CHAIRMAN CARL MOSES called the meeting to order at 8:37 a.m.
He noted the members in attendance and stated that
discussion would start with HB 496.
HB 496 - ESTABLISHING A GUIDED SPORTFISHERY LICENSE
Number 030
PETER ECKLUND, LEGISLATIVE STAFF FOR REPRESENTATIVE BILL
WILLIAMS, PRIME SPONSOR OF HB 496, advised members that the
guided sportfishery is an important and rapidly growing
industry in the Alaskan economy, and will inevitably
continue to grow and expand throughout the state. The
ability of the state to provide for the sustainable
development and sound, fair, sensible management of the
guided sportfishery, is dependent upon the availability of
complete information upon which to base decisions. The goal
of HB 496 is to provide a mechanism for the ongoing
collection of this crucial data regarding the guided
sportfishery.
MR. ECKLUND said in some parts of Alaska, the rapid growth
in the charter industry has motivated sportfish guides
themselves to request a moratorium on further expansion.
That is the case in Ketchikan. In researching the
feasibility of various limitation schemes for these
constituents, it was discovered that nearly every approach
to a moratorium or limitation in the guided sportfishery for
state managed species of fish would be unconstitutional.
Furthermore, since there is room for further growth in the
guided sportfishery in many areas of the state, including
parts of Southeast Alaska, it may be premature and unwise to
pursue limitation, even on a regional basis.
MR. ECKLUND further said there is an incredible lack of hard
data available regarding the guided sportfishery in Alaska.
By regulation, registration of vessels engaged in sportfish
guiding activity is required in several parts of the state,
but not in others. Registration of guides themselves is
required in a few rivers, but not elsewhere. No uniform
licensing procedure exists in Alaska. Thus, there is no
complete information about who is actively engaged in
sportfish guiding, how many clients are served, what the
catch rates are, and what rivers, streams, and marine waters
are being utilized.
MR. ECKLUND commented that without a means for gathering
dependable information, it is impossible to monitor the
activity or growth of the guided sportfishery on a statewide
basis. It is imperative for the state to have solid
information to ensure the sustainable development of the
industry and to the sound management of the fishery
resources upon which the industry depends. This data
collection would provide a picture on which the state could
base any future decisions about whether or where limitation
schemes might be feasible or desirable. It is time to
acknowledge this important growing industry and ensure that
management decisions can be based on complete information,
not on guesswork, perception and supposition. This is the
intended goal of HB 496.
MR. ECKLUND said HB 496 establishes a guided sportfishery
license. Each person who plans to engage in sportfish
guiding, both on fresh water and salt water, from a vessel
or otherwise, will be required to purchase the license. The
license holder should then be responsible for submitting
reports which will be developed by the Sport Fish Division
of the Department of Fish and Game to enable the state to
build a data bank regarding the guided sportfishery. The
fee for the license is intended to cover the cost of the
licensing procedure and the gathering, compiling and
analysis of information. The bill does not impose any
limitations on the number of guides or vessels in the state
or who can purchase the license to guide, nor does it affect
their activities. HB 496 is a first and imperative step
towards having solid data upon which to build sound
management policy for the guided sportfishery in Alaska.
Number 112
PAUL KRASNOWSKI, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF SPORT FISH, ALASKA
DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME (ADF&G), advised members that
sportfish guiding is a growing business and a significant
part of the tourism industry. There currently are no
statutory requirements to license or register guides or
charter operators. There are some Board of Fisheries
regulations that require fresh water fishing guides in Cook
Inlet and Southeast Alaska to register with the Department,
and charter operators to register their vessels in those
areas with the department. Continued growth of guiding
businesses around the state will increasingly challenge the
management activities. At each meeting of the Board of
Fish, at least one allocation question or concern is raised.
The ADF&G supports this bill, as it allows the collection of
data on the numbers of guides, the general areas of
operation, the numbers of clients and the number of days
fished. This information will be essential for Board of
Fisheries actions about fishery management and allocation,
as well providing an assurance that the growth of business
is consistent with the resource health.
Number 163
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS noted that if the license fee was
deposited into the general fund, then reallocated to the
ADF&G, there should be a program established that will
define how that money will be spent.
Number 177
MR. KRASNOWSKI responded that the money would accrue to the
Fish & Game fund with other license sales, like sport fish
license sales and hunting license sales. The Division of
Sport Fish currently has no general funds, yet operates
entirely on Fish & Game and federal funds.
Number 192
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS asked where the revenue from the
guide fee would go, and what it would pay for.
MR. KRASNOWSKI noted the ADF&G fiscal note shows that the
annual cost of the program would be less than half of the
proposed license fee. The estimated number of licenses
desired may be close to the 2,100 guides and charter
operators in the state at this time. Approximately 85
percent of those are Alaskan residents. For some part time
guides, the license fee may act as a disincentive to
continue, and thus the 85 percent gives a more accurate
picture of total revenue.
Number 252
MR. ECKLUND responded that the intent of the guide fee was
to break even with the cost of the fee versus the cost to
the department. The sponsor had just received the fiscal
note on February 22, 1994, and had set the fee amounts in
advance of getting the fiscal note. No amendment was
available to change the amount of the fees, but one will be
drafted.
Number 264
FRANK HOMAN, COMMISSIONER, COMMERCIAL FISHERIES ENTRY
COMMISSION, ALASKA DEPARTMENT OF FISH & GAME (ADF&G),
testified in support of the concept behind HB 496. The
ADF&G and Representative Williams have been working together
to find the best method of data collection for sportfish
guides. Without some constitutional change to allow
commercial fisheries to be limited, the Commercial Fisheries
Entry Commission (CFEC), as set up, could not deal with
sport fisheries. The ADF&G has tried to come up with a
moratorium, yet the department is commercially oriented, not
sport oriented. In order to see if a moratorium or
limitation is needed in this fishery, the ADF&G needs to
establish a database from which to see an impact on the
fishery and that there is a detriment to the economic health
of the fisherman. These determinations must be made before
any moratorium or limitation is imposed.
Number 328
BILL FOSTER, REPRESENTING THE SITKA CHARTER BOAT OPERATORS,
testifying via teleconference from Sitka, advised members
that his group is still evaluating HB 496. As written, the
bill will probably reduce the 140 charter boat operators in
Sitka by about half.
Number 343
JAY SKORDAHL, A CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, testified via
teleconference from Sitka that he will support HB 496, yet
is uncomfortable with a moratorium at this time. The
accumulation of data will be useful for the future.
Number 358
GARY PLUMB, A KETCHIKAN CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, testifying
from Ketchikan, asked if this bill would require guide
applicants to purchase liability insurance on their vessels
and go through drug testing.
MR. ECKLUND advised members that he had a draft amendment
dealing with those issues on hand, and those concerns would
be addressed after the committee considered the amendments.
Number 402
ED STAHL, A CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, testified from Ketchikan.
He claimed that such information gathering was fine, but
every year was too frequent. Part time charter operators
should not be punished for working only weekends, and
something should be added to HB 496 to protect these people;
perhaps a lower license fee. He further stated the
commercial fisheries don't hold a candle to the charter
industry, and there should be tax incentives for others to
enter the charter boat business.
Number 442
DONALD WESTLUND, A CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, testifying from
Ketchikan, said that there is a constitutional problem with
the charter boat operators being regulated by limited entry.
Charter boat operators already have to register their
vessels for a fee; this bill would add another fee. He
suggested that funds be taken from ADF&G creel census to pay
for the program.
Number 469
DENNIS KETCHAM, A CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, also testifying
from Ketchikan, said there is only a perceived problem of
too many charter operators. There are no facts or figures
to support any other theories, therefore it is only a
perceived problem. The money and information is already
available; tacking on another fee is not quite right. Until
there is a problem with the conservation of fish, nothing
should be done.
ERIC JORDAN, A CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, speaking to the
committee from Sitka, supported HB 496 because there is no
formal licensing process, nor any documentation of the
charter boat businesses. This information can help manage
and protect the industry. Unless managed effectively, there
may be problems with overfishing and overcrowding similar to
those in the commercial fisheries.
Number 526
DENNIS PEIRE, A SALCHA RESIDENT, testifying from Fairbanks,
spoke in support of HB 496, yet felt that the fees in the
bill are too high. There are numerous other licenses
required and the fees add up. The charge for the drug
testing alone is $460.00.
Number 540
RIK VAN STONE, A FAIRBANKS RESIDENT, testifying from
Fairbanks, said that he did not oppose the bill. The fees
should be charged on a biannual basis, and the money
collected should not go to the general fund, yet should be
used exclusively for the Department of Fish & Game.
REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS commented that the intent is for the
money collected to go to the Fish & Game fund.
Number 565
BILL GAVIN, A SOLDOTNA RESIDENT, testifying from Soldotna,
still failed to see the intent of HB 496 and spoke in
opposition. To study the sport fish industry, it will cost
$208,000. The information could be gathered much cheaper by
a mail out, or collected from sources already existent.
Operators should be required to have a valid American Red
Cross first aid certification. He further asked how
enforcement will be handled.
Number 595
JEFF KING, A CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, testified from Soldotna,
and reiterated that more regulations create more illegal
activity. Without strict enforcement, fewer people will pay
the fee and fish legally.
THEODORE JOHNSON, A HOMER CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, testifying
from Soldotna, spoke in opposition of HB 496. There are
currently too many licenses and fees, and the information is
available in other places.
Number 626
PAUL GEODERT, A CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR, testifying from
Homer, asked about the exception to the Kenai River special
management area on page two of HB 496.
Number 630
MR. ECKLUND replied, that area is currently managed by the
Department of Natural Resources, and the fees are in excess
of $200 originally proposed, then those fishermen would not
need to get another license and pay another fee.
Number 636
MR. GEODERT further said that article nine, section seven of
the Constitution says that the proceeds of any state tax or
license cannot be dedicated to any special purpose. After
hearing Mr. Ecklund's comment, Mr. Geodert spoke in
opposition to HB 496 as it violates several areas of the
Alaska State Constitution, by exempting the Kenai fishermen
from the fee.
TAPE 94-10, SIDE B
Number 022
TIM EVERS, REPRESENTATIVE OF THE DEEP CREEK CHARTER BOAT
ASSOCIATION, testifying from Homer, opposes HB 496. The
ADF&G should gather information from its own sources,
instead of starting a new program.
Number 048
MIKE SWAN, REPRESENTATIVE of the HOMER CHARTER ASSOCIATION,
testifying from Homer, advised members that the information
sought is already out there, and fishermen should not have
to pay another $200.
Number 070
CHETT CUNDIFF, OWNER, GOOD TIME CHARTERS, testifying from
Homer, advised members that she opposed HB 496.
Number 075
ED DERSHAM, ANCHOR POINT CHARTER OPERATOR, testifying via
teleconference from Homer, said he is already required to
give catch information, and is reluctant to give more
information for such a high price.
Number 114
ROBERT WARD, OWNER OF A-WARD CHARTERS, testifying from
Homer, spoke in opposition to HB 496. There should be a
tighter definition of a guide and the fishermen should be
entitled to see the results of the data, for the price of
$200. If the goal is to reduce the total number of guides,
it may take some time, and it's not in the best interest of
the fishermen. The Commercial Fishing and Agricultural Bank
(CFAB) should help with tax incentives for fishermen to get
started.
Number 146
ROGER WATNEY, an ANCHOR POINT CHARTER BOAT OPERATOR,
testifying from Homer, said that the numerous license fees
are going up. He further asked that the small business
owners not be penalized with another fee, unless there is a
legitimate need for the money. The resident fee should be
$50 and nonresident fee should be $1000.
Number 167
SEAN MARTIN, REPRESENTATIVE, HOMER CHARTER ASSOCIATION (HCA)
testifying from Homer, stated the information that ADF&G is
seeking is already available from other sources, it simply
needs to be pooled together. A two or three year study may
be pertinent, however an open ended study is too much and
the fees are too high. If the fees were going to be used to
enhance the sport fishery, instead of going into the general
fund, the HCA could support the bill.
RON McKINSTRY, OWNER OF EAGLE SPIRIT CHARTERS, testifying
from Homer, opposes HB 496. The fees the charter operators
pay are exorbitant, and the information is already
available.
Number 232
JOHN GEORGE, LOBBYIST FOR THE ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL (AOC),
spoke in support of HB 496 as a data gathering device. The
charter boat industry is growing and information will be
critical later. The fees could be adjusted, and the list of
licenses could be reduced, as commercial fishermen need not
purchase a business license.
Number 256
MR. KRASNOWSKI clarified that creel surveys are not
conducted statewide and those surveys are very expensive.
The surveys are random and do not contribute catch data to
specific anglers. The intent is to be information
gathering, not regulatory.
Number 296
CHAIRMAN MOSES asked if the growing sportfish guide business
was adding increased burden to the Fish & Wildlife
enforcement.
MR. KRASNOWSKI stated that Fish & Wildlife would be best
suited to answer; however, as fisheries are more heavily
used, the more activity there is for enforcement and fish
management. The more information we can gather on the
growth, the better the management.
Number 311
MR. ECKLUND stated that currently, the Department of Fish &
Game is not able to pull all the data from different
programs and databases, as there is no vehicle; HB 496 is
the vehicle that allows for such data collection.
MR. FOSTER clarified that although there are 140 registered
charter boat operators in Sitka, many of those are not
active. A $200 fee will discourage all but those serious
operators.
Number 340
ADJOURNMENT
CHAIRMAN MOSES asked members and the public if there were
further comments. Hearing none, he stated that HB 496 would
be HELD FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION. He adjourned the meeting
at 9:45 a.m.
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