Legislature(2003 - 2004)

05/16/2003 07:48 AM FSH

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                  
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                                                            
                          May 16, 2003                                                                                          
                           7:48 a.m.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Paul Seaton, Chair                                                                                               
Representative Peggy Wilson, Vice Chair                                                                                         
Representative Dan Ogg                                                                                                          
Representative Ralph Samuels                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Cheryll Heinze                                                                                                   
Representative Ethan Berkowitz                                                                                                  
Representative David Guttenberg                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
HOUSE BILL NO. 22                                                                                                               
 "An Act relating to commercial fishing permit brokers; and                                                                     
providing for an effective date."                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     - MOVED CSHB 22(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE BILL NO. 309                                                                                                              
"An Act prohibiting the release of nonindigenous predatory fish                                                                 
into public water."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 25, Supporting Alaska's independent                                                                  
commercial fishermen and Alaska's fish processing industry and                                                                  
opposing the establishment of processor quota shares.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     - HEARD AND HELD                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
BILL: HB 22                                                                                                                   
SHORT TITLE:COMMERCIAL FISHING PERMIT BROKERS                                                                                   
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)WEYHRAUCH                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
01/21/03     0037       (H)        PREFILE RELEASED (1/10/03)                                                                   
01/21/03     0037       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
01/21/03     0037       (H)        FSH, RES, FIN                                                                                
02/21/03                (H)        FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
02/21/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                  
03/07/03                (H)        FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/07/03                (H)        -- Meeting Canceled --                                                                       
03/10/03                (H)        MINUTE(RES)                                                                                  
03/19/03                (H)        FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/19/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
03/19/03                (H)        MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                  
03/28/03                (H)        FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
03/28/03                (H)        Scheduled But Not Heard                                                                      
05/16/03                (H)        FSH AT 7:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HB 309                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:PROHIBIT RELEASE OF PREDATORY FISH                                                                                  
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)WOLF                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
05/08/03     1457       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
05/08/03     1457       (H)        FSH, RES                                                                                     
05/08/03     1457       (H)        REFERRED TO FISHERIES                                                                        
05/16/03                (H)        FSH AT 7:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
BILL: HJR 25                                                                                                                  
SHORT TITLE:COMMERCIAL FISHING & PROCESSOR SHARES                                                                               
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S)SEATON                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Jrn-Date   Jrn-Page                     Action                                                                                  
04/16/03     1008       (H)        READ THE FIRST TIME -                                                                        
                                   REFERRALS                                                                                    
04/16/03     1008       (H)        FSH, STA, RES                                                                                
04/16/03     1008       (H)        REFERRED TO FISHERIES                                                                        
04/22/03     1058       (H)        COSPONSOR REMOVED: HEINZE                                                                    
04/23/03                (H)        FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
04/23/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                  
04/25/03                (H)        FSH AT 8:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
04/25/03                (H)        Heard & Held                                                                                 
                                   MINUTE(FSH)                                                                                  
05/16/03                (H)        FSH AT 7:30 AM CAPITOL 124                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
LINDA SYLVESTER, Staff                                                                                                          
to Representative Bruce Weyhrauch                                                                                               
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on behalf of Representative                                                                       
Weyhrauch, sponsor of HB 22, and addressed proposed changes to                                                                  
HB 22.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
JOHN MITCHELL                                                                                                                   
Alaska Permits Services                                                                                                         
Bellingham, Washington                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of HB 22.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY WOLF                                                                                                       
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified as the sponsor of HB 309.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
LANCE NELSON, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                        
Natural Resources Section                                                                                                       
Civil Division (Anchorage)                                                                                                      
Department of Law                                                                                                               
Anchorage, Alaska                                                                                                               
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions pertaining to HB 309.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KELLY HEPLER, Director                                                                                                          
Division of Sport Fish                                                                                                          
Alaska Department of Fish & Game (ADF&G)                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Offered information pertinent to HB 309.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS KNIGHT, Staff                                                                                                             
to Representative Paul Seaton                                                                                                   
Alaska State Legislature                                                                                                        
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Spoke to the proposed changes to HJR 25.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-29, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  PAUL   SEATON  called  the  House   Special  Committee  on                                                             
Fisheries meeting to order at  7:48 a.m.  Representatives Seaton,                                                               
Ogg,   and  Samuels   were  present   at  the   call  to   order.                                                               
Representative Wilson arrived as the meeting was in progress.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
HB  22-COMMERCIAL FISHING PERMIT BROKERS                                                                                      
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR SEATON announced that the  first order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE BILL NO. 22, "An  Act relating to commercial fishing permit                                                               
brokers;  and  providing for  an  effective  date.   [Before  the                                                               
committee  was Version  Q, 23-LS0133\Q,  Utermohle, 3/18/03.   In                                                               
the  committee packet  was a  new  proposed committee  substitute                                                               
(CS), Version V.]                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  noted that  while  the  committee was  awaiting  a                                                               
quorum, discussion of HB 22 would begin.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 0086                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LINDA SYLVESTER, Staff to  Representative Bruce Weyhrauch, Alaska                                                               
State   Legislature,  testified   on  behalf   of  Representative                                                               
Weyhrauch, sponsor of HB 22,  and introduced the proposed changes                                                               
to the  bill, saying  that Version  V incorporated  a substantive                                                               
change  found  [under  Sec.  16.10.570]   on  page  3,  line  23,                                                               
paragraph (b).   She said  that for the protection  of consumers,                                                               
use  of an  escrow account  was  sought for  situations in  which                                                               
funds were being handled by the  broker.  She noted that previous                                                               
testimony  had indicated  that  the cost  of  the escrow  account                                                               
would be  onerous in  some situations, as  it would  cost between                                                               
$85 and $225.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0200                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SYLVESTER  continued  that  there  had  been  discussion  of                                                               
setting a floor  or ceiling so that the  small transactions would                                                               
not  be required  to  use  an escrow  account  but that  approach                                                               
seemed  overly  complex in  the  final  analysis.   A  result  of                                                               
discussions  with several  brokers, including  John Mitchell  and                                                               
Stuart Ricky (ph) was that there ought  to be a way for people to                                                               
not use  an escrow  account.   She said  there are  situations in                                                               
which a cashier's  check is being held, the check  is in the name                                                               
of the  seller and  the broker  holds that check  in a  file; the                                                               
feeling is that this is a secure way of transacting.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0309                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SYLVESTER explained  the changes  incorporated in  paragraph                                                               
(b), saying  that if a broker  is going to negotiate  the money -                                                               
to hold it and  put it into a separate account  - he/she must use                                                               
an escrow account.  However, if  the broker is only going to hold                                                               
a cashier's  check, then he/she is  allowed to do that,  and that                                                               
is "thought  to be an  adequate protection  for that".   She said                                                               
that occupational  licensing provides  a modest protection.   The                                                               
fiscal  note  on  occupational   licensing  was  amended  by  the                                                               
director and  went from  a high  to a low  number for  a biennial                                                               
license, with  the cost  being borne  by the  brokers themselves.                                                               
This would  provide some  protection for  consumers in  the state                                                               
because  brokers  would  be  subject to  loosing  control.    The                                                               
sponsor's hope is  that the changes could  be incorporated before                                                               
the end of this  session so that next year, HB  22 could be taken                                                               
up by the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 0457                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON referred  to page  3, line  17, and  mentioned that                                                               
"handle or  facilitate" had been  changed to "broker",  which had                                                               
been  conceptually  defined  as  being an  agent  for  others  in                                                               
negotiating contract  purchases or sales  in return for a  fee or                                                               
commission,  for example.   He  questioned whether  the intention                                                               
was to remove the verb "broker".                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0565                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYLVESTER said  her focus had been on  the substantive change                                                               
made in  paragraph (b)  [page 3,  line 23],  and deferred  to the                                                               
committee aide  and to  the materials to  which Chair  Seaton was                                                               
referring.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  noted   that  a  motion  could  be   made  at  the                                                               
appropriate  time to  change "handle  or facilitate"  to "broker"                                                               
throughout the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0635                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG   reminded  the   committee  that   this  had                                                               
previously been suggested by Representative Berkowitz.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON said  that when  a  quorum was  present, Version  V                                                               
needed to  be adopted,  and after  that [Conceptual  Amendment 1]                                                               
and a definition of broker could be addressed.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0684                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN  MITCHELL, Alaska  Permit Services,  Bellingham, Washington,                                                               
said he had been in the  brokerage business for over 20 years and                                                               
was  also been  a  fisherman in  Bristol Bay.    He provided  the                                                               
following testimony:                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
      Trust, confidence, a reliance or resting of the mind                                                                      
     on the integrity, justice, or other sound principal of                                                                     
     another person.   I believe the public  is deserving of                                                                    
     trust.   The time  has come to  provide the  public the                                                                    
     assurance  of trust  when  dealing  with the  brokerage                                                                    
     industry.  To ensure that  each party will receive what                                                                    
     they bargained for.  The  issue of trust has once again                                                                    
     become a matter of attention  due to the neglect of one                                                                    
     within the  brokerage industry  that caused  the public                                                                    
     harm and broke the law.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     It may  seem difficult  to create a  cure-all solution.                                                                    
     However, to  take the initiative to  create some simple                                                                    
     forms  of  safeguards  surely   is  warranted  today  -                                                                    
     occupational  licensing  for  this  industry  which  is                                                                    
     currently  un-regulated.   Independent  escrow  account                                                                    
     for the  deposit and disbursement of  all funds, unless                                                                    
     the parties  mutually agree for  the substitution  of a                                                                    
     cashier's check  as the form  of payment,  made payable                                                                    
     to  the  seller and  to  be  held  and handled  by  the                                                                    
     broker, under  written instructions  of the  parties: I                                                                    
     strongly  endorse  these two  proposed  recommendations                                                                    
     and requirements contained in this bill.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  announced that  public  testimony  was closed  and                                                               
stated that HB 22 would be put aside until a quorum was present.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB 309-PROHIBIT RELEASE OF PREDATORY FISH                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced  that the next order of  business would be                                                               
HOUSE  BILL  NO.   309,  "An  Act  prohibiting   the  release  of                                                               
nonindigenous predatory fish into public water."                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  said discussion would  be begin  on HB 309  until a                                                               
quorum was present.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0903                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KELLY  WOLF, Alaska State Legislature,  sponsor of                                                               
HB  309,  testified  that  the  bill would  make  it  illegal  to                                                               
transport predatory game fish and  would increase that offense to                                                               
a felony.   He  said that  Alaska currently  considers this  as a                                                               
misdemeanor unless  a permit is  issued by the  Alaska Department                                                               
of  Fish  &  Game  (ADF&G).    He  told  the  committee  that  in                                                               
Southcentral Alaska,  through the means of  "bucket biology," the                                                               
transportation of northern pike,  a nonindigenous, predatory fish                                                               
has  been  expanding  through  the fresh  water  systems.    This                                                               
expansion jeopardizes different  indigenous species of anadromous                                                               
fish such as  trout, coho salmon, and king salmon.   He said that                                                               
the only  way to  eliminate northern  pike is  to use  a chemical                                                               
poison,  and  the  poison  also kills  everything  in  the  water                                                               
system.    He  cited  the  example  of  Davis  Lake  in  northern                                                               
California, where it cost the state  a lot of money to poison the                                                               
lake in order to kill off northern pike.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1178                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF continued that  some individuals wish to have                                                               
this predatory sport fish expand  into the Kenai Peninsula and up                                                               
into [Matanuska-Susitna] valley.   While in some  parts of Alaska                                                               
the fish  is an indigenous  species, this  isn't the case  in the                                                               
Kenai  Peninsula, considering  the watershed  and make-up  of the                                                               
ecosystem.   Another  issue is  that within  the last  two years,                                                               
yellow  perch,  which  he  doesn't  think  are  indigenous,  were                                                               
transported and  stocked in  a lake by  means of  bucket biology.                                                               
The issue is that individuals  should not be changing the state's                                                               
ecosystem and endangering  the economy or ecology  of the region,                                                               
he stated.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  clarified that  the  discussion  pertained to  the                                                               
proposed CS [Version I, 23-LS1097\I, Utermohle, 5/9/03].                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1379                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  announced that  there was now  a quorum  present in                                                               
committee,  and  that  there was  a  motion  from  Representative                                                               
Wilson to put  the proposed CS for HB 309,  Version I, before the                                                               
committee.  [No  objection was stated, and Version  I was treated                                                               
as adopted.]                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked if the term "game fish" was being used.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF responded  that he  did not  object to  that                                                               
usage,  noting   that  the  expanded  definition   would  not  be                                                               
inclusive of tropical fish.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 1473                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG  surmised that on page  1, lines 1, 4,  6, and                                                               
7, "game" would be inserted.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   SEATON   acknowledged   the  foregoing   as   [Conceptual                                                               
Amendment 1].  He asked if there  was any objection.  There being                                                               
no objection, Conceptual Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 1543                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF  acknowledged that  from  a  court of  law's                                                               
perspective, there was concern regarding  the ambiguous aspect of                                                               
"nonindigenous."   He suggested  that perhaps  "nonindigenous" be                                                               
struck from the title.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1678                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LANCE  NELSON,  Assistant  Attorney  General,  Natural  Resources                                                               
Section,   Civil  Division   (Anchorage),   Department  of   Law,                                                               
testified that  an element of  the crime  is that a  person would                                                               
have  to knowingly  release live,  nonindigenous, predatory  fish                                                               
into  a body  of fresh  water.   It  could be  argued by  defense                                                               
counsel that  the state has the  burden of proof to  show that no                                                               
fish  of that  species  has ever  been present  in  that body  of                                                               
water;  he said  this might  be a  difficult task  and burden  to                                                               
overcome.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 1775                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON mentioned that perhaps  the House Judiciary Standing                                                               
Committee could address a number of these legal issues.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 1798                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SAMUELS said,  "Generally speaking,  if you  just                                                               
said 'pike' you'd take care of 99 percent of the problem."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1816                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
KELLY   HEPLER,  Director,   Division  of   Sport  Fish,   Alaska                                                               
Department  of Fish  & Game  (ADF&G), said  that just  mentioning                                                               
"pike" wouldn't be  sufficient because other fish  such as yellow                                                               
perch  have also  been introduced;  the  bill needs  to be  broad                                                               
enough to include other fish as well.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON  voiced  his  concern   regarding  the  removal  of                                                               
"nonindigenous".   He  pointed out  that Representative  Wolf was                                                               
referring to non-native  fish and said, "We're  not talking about                                                               
salmon eggs that are [moved] from one pond to the next."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WOLF   replied  that  "nonindigenous"   could  be                                                               
defined within the bill.  He said  he would like to move the bill                                                               
to the House Resources Standing  Committee and told the committee                                                               
that  during  the  interim  he  would commit  to  work  with  the                                                               
Department of Law (DOL) on HB 309.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON asked  the committee if "amend" should  be placed on                                                               
the bill  [report] as well  as the  inclusion of a  definition of                                                               
"nonindigenous".                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG  questioned making  this  offense  a class  C                                                               
felony.  He  gave the example of a fish  farm in Washington State                                                               
containing  Atlantic salmon  or other  forms of  salmon in  which                                                               
fish leave the  pens and swim into Alaskan waters.   He said that                                                               
it was foreseeable that fish could  swim up the streams, and that                                                               
under  this  statute, a  state  of  Washington citizen  could  be                                                               
prosecuted.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  clarified that  this would need  to be  a "knowing"                                                               
release into a body of fresh public water.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG agreed that a  person might know that the fish                                                               
would eventually arrive [at that destination].                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON said that fish  traveling through the salt water and                                                               
the  ocean differed  from fish  being released  knowingly into  a                                                               
body of fresh water.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2121                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG asked, if fish  were released into one body of                                                               
water with the knowledge that  those fish might eventually end up                                                               
in another body of water, "What's the difference?"                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF said the bill  was written such that a person                                                               
may not "knowingly release, or  knowingly transport for release",                                                               
which is  similar to carrying  that fish to Alaska  and releasing                                                               
it into fresh  public water.  He stated that  if fish escape from                                                               
a  pen, swim  through  salt  water, and  eventually  spawn in  an                                                               
Alaskan river, that's different altogether.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG cautioned  that there  should be  not be  any                                                               
ambiguity, given  that a  class C  felony might  be placed  on an                                                               
individual.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2206                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF  said that  one reason a  class C  felony was                                                               
chosen  was because  the poisoning  of  Davis Lake  had cost  the                                                               
[U.S.  Fish & Wildlife  Service] and the California Department of                                                               
Fish and  Game about $1.7 million.   He said that  because of the                                                               
actions  of  one  individual  or one  small  group,  the  state's                                                               
resources could end up being spent.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 2263                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON  asked what the  penalty was for a  class C                                                               
felony.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS  responded that  the penalty  involved 364                                                               
days for a misdemeanor and 365 days for a felony.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE   OGG  commented   that   he  wasn't   necessarily                                                               
suggesting  that  the felony  be  lowered  to a  misdemeanor  but                                                               
rather, if this was going to be  a class C felony crime, then the                                                               
language needed to be very tight.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  asked if using  the language "directly into  a body                                                               
of  fresh  water"  would  satisfy  Representative  Ogg's  concern                                                               
regarding ocean migration.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG  replied  that   he  would  prefer  that  the                                                               
language be  reviewed by  the attorney  general's office  and the                                                               
ADF&G to make sure that it's tight.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF said that he  had already made the commitment                                                               
to work with the ADF&G and DOL during the interim.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 2366                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON told  the  committee that  since the  bill                                                               
isn't currently going  anywhere, she would prefer that  HB 309 be                                                               
heard by  the House Special  Committee on Fisheries  this January                                                               
[2004].                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WOLF  said he would like  to see the bill  move to                                                               
the House Resources Standing Committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON repeated  her  suggestion  that the  House                                                               
Special Committee on  Fisheries review the bill  at the beginning                                                               
of next session.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG said  he agreed  with Representative  Wilson.                                                               
He stated  that this was  clearly a  fisheries issue and  that he                                                               
would prefer sending on a bill that had been worked through.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE SAMUELS stated that  he agreed with Representative                                                               
Ogg.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:25 to 8:28 a.m.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2460                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON said  that CSHB  309 would  be held  over and  that                                                               
during  the  interim  the [departments]  and  the  sponsor  would                                                               
continue to work on the bill.   A definition of nonindigenous was                                                               
needed  and  a tightening  of  the  language  in order  to  avoid                                                               
unintended consequences.   He said  that HB  309 would be  one of                                                               
the first orders of business next year.  [HB 309 was held over.]                                                                
                                                                                                                                
HB  22-COMMERCIAL FISHING PERMIT BROKERS                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 2499                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  returned attention  to HOUSE BILL  NO. 22,  "An Act                                                               
relating to commercial fishing permit  brokers; and providing for                                                               
an effective date."  [A quorum was now present.]                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2522                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG  moved  to   adopt  Version  V  [23-LS0133\V,                                                               
Utermohle, 5/15/03] as  a work draft.  There  being no objection,                                                               
Version V was before the committee.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  said [Conceptual Amendment 1,  discussed earlier in                                                               
the  meeting] would  change "handle  or  facilitate" to  "broker"                                                               
throughout the bill.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG said, "Yes, the verb, broker."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  said, "Thank you,  and then of course  a definition                                                               
of broker will also be added and clarified."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG  asked if  this would be  a definition  of the                                                               
verb, "to broker."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON  confirmed this  to be  so.   [No formal  motion was                                                               
made, but Conceptual Amendment 1 was treated as adopted.]                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SYLVESTER explained  the  changes  [previously discussed  in                                                               
committee, addressing  the changes being  made from Version  Q to                                                               
Version V]  to Representative Wilson.   She said  the substantive                                                               
change was  addressed in  paragraph (b) on  page 3,  beginning on                                                               
line 23.   She said  that at the  last hearing there  was concern                                                               
that requiring  an escrow  account for  each and  every situation                                                               
might be onerous and not appropriate.   She said if the broker is                                                               
going to  hold and negotiate  the money, it  must be put  into an                                                               
escrow account where it will be  safe.  However, if the purchaser                                                               
provides the  broker with a  cashier's check  in the name  of the                                                               
seller, he/she  may hold that  in a  file, for example,  and that                                                               
would be considered to be safe  and secure.  Ms. Sylvester stated                                                               
that  there are  two options  and  that a  floor/ceiling was  not                                                               
being contemplated.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  SEATON added  that occupational  licensing is  involved at                                                               
the lowest level so the fiscal note is only $3,000.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. SYLVESTER added that the amount  would be $240 for a two-year                                                               
license.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 2615                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG moved to report  CSHB 22, Version 23-LS0133\V,                                                               
Utermohle, 5/15/03, as amended,  out of committee with individual                                                               
recommendations and  the accompanying  fiscal note.   There being                                                               
no objection,  CSHB 22(FSH) was  reported from the  House Special                                                               
Committee on Fisheries.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HJR 25-COMMERCIAL FISHING & PROCESSOR SHARES                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 2644                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced that the  final order of business would be                                                               
HOUSE JOINT  RESOLUTION NO.  25, Supporting  Alaska's independent                                                               
commercial fishermen  and Alaska's  fish processing  industry and                                                               
opposing the establishment of processor quota shares.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2672                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG   moved  to  adopt  the   proposed  committee                                                               
substitute  (CS), Version  23-LS0996\H,  Utermohle, 5/15/03,  for                                                               
discussion purposes.   [No  objection was  stated, and  Version H                                                               
was treated as adopted.]                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG  offered [Conceptual  Amendment 1] on  page 2,                                                               
line 8, after the word "shares"  to add in the language, "for the                                                               
Bering Sea  and Aleutian Islands  crab fishery".  There  being no                                                               
objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON noted that the changes  made to HJR 25 recognize the                                                               
decisions  and  work of  the  [North  Pacific Fishery  Management                                                               
Council (NPFMC)]  to rationalize the  crab fishery in  the Bering                                                               
Sea.   He noted that  the change  in the title  occurs throughout                                                               
the resolution.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 2791                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHRIS  KNIGHT, Staff  to Representative  Paul  Seaton, said  that                                                               
most of the  first page, other than  the title was the  same.  He                                                               
continued that  on page 2,  line 7, "unfathomable"  was included.                                                               
He  said that  any  "opposition or  opposing"  language had  been                                                               
removed  and  that  the  committee's  support  of  the  [NPFMC's]                                                               
interest in rationalizing the fishery had also been included.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON said that the  rationalization of the fishery wasn't                                                               
the problem;  it's the inclusion  of this section  of "processor-                                                               
quota   shares",  which   would  distort   the  balance   between                                                               
commercial fishermen  and processors and introduce  a new element                                                               
that would be non-competitive in  the future.  This would prevent                                                               
any  future processors  from becoming  involved.   The resolution                                                               
addresses that  element of  the plan  - that  the processor-quota                                                               
share fixes  things so that  only certain processors  can forever                                                               
buy crab and that the fishermen  would have to deliver to certain                                                               
people -  that would have  ramifications throughout  the industry                                                               
and  could  have  tremendous ramifications  for  coastal  Alaskan                                                               
communities.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KNIGHT  added  that  the   attempt  was  to  tone  down  the                                                               
oppositional language to say, "We  support what you're doing, but                                                               
consider this one aspect."                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  WILSON said,  "Because there  is controversy  and                                                               
because we are saying that the  whole state feels this way and it                                                               
is wrong, I have a problem [with it]."  [Tape ends.]                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 03-29, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KNIGHT said  the  language, which  was  fairly general,  was                                                               
inclusive of both groups, and  didn't indicate that one group was                                                               
better than another.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 2928                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  SAMUELS said  that  although  he appreciates  the                                                               
change in  tone and the  work that has gone  into HJR 25,  he has                                                               
the same  concerns as  Representative Wilson's.   He said  if the                                                               
[federal government]  is being asked  to look at  processor quota                                                               
shares,  the  request  should  be   to  look  at  the  whole  IFQ                                                               
[individual  fishery  quota]  system.   He  said  that  a  public                                                               
resource has  been walled-up  so it's difficult  to get  into the                                                               
fishery  to begin  with.   He mentioned  that fishermen  have the                                                               
difficulty of  being stuck selling to  the one area and  that the                                                               
argument for  fishermen "still  cuts both ways."   He  said, "The                                                               
fishermen don't want  to be locked in, but [they]  have locked us                                                               
out.   It's  a philosophical  argument."   Representative Samuels                                                               
said  he didn't  have  an ax  to  grind one  way  or another  and                                                               
wouldn't object to [the resolution] going out of committee.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 2845                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG  said that HJR  25 was now more  effective due                                                               
to the focus  being on the particular instead of  the global, the                                                               
positive  aspect  of  the  new  language,  and  the  emphasis  on                                                               
reconsideration.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 2808                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  OGG  moved  to   report  CSHJR  25,  Version  23-                                                               
LS0996\H, Utermohle,  5/15/03, as amended, out  of committee with                                                               
individual  recommendations  and  the [accompanying  zero  fiscal                                                               
note].                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 2780                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WILSON objected.   She said although  the tone was                                                               
better, she thought it would be better to wait until next year.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
The committee took an at-ease from 8:45 a.m. to 8:46 a.m.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE OGG withdrew his motion.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR SEATON announced that HJR 25 would be held over.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no  further business before the  committee, the House                                                               
Special  Committee   on  Fisheries   meeting  was   adjourned  at                                                               
8:47 a.m.                                                                                                                       

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