Legislature(1997 - 1998)

03/24/1997 05:06 PM FSH

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
              HOUSE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                             
                         March 24, 1997                                        
                           5:06 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Alan Austerman, Chairman                                       
 Representative Ivan Ivan                                                      
 Representative Scott Ogan                                                     
 Representative Mark Hodgins                                                   
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Gene Kubina                                                    
                                                                               
 OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT                                                         
                                                                               
 Senator Loren Leman                                                           
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 7(RLS) AM                                              
 "An Act reducing certain resident sport fishing, hunting, and                 
 trapping license fees, increasing certain nonresident sport fishing           
 license and tag fees, and relating to nonresident sport fishing and           
 hunting licenses and tags; and providing for an effective date."              
                                                                               
      - MOVED HCSCSSB 7(FSH) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                  
                                                                               
 *HOUSE BILL NO. 204                                                           
 "An Act revising the procedures and authority of the Alaska                   
 Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, the Board of Fisheries, and            
 the Department of Fish and Game to establish a moratorium on                  
 participants or vessels, or both, participating in certain                    
 fisheries; and providing for an effective date."                              
                                                                               
      - MOVED HB 204 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                          
                                                                               
 (* First public hearing)                                                      
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  SB 7                                                                 
 SHORT TITLE: HUNTING SPORT FISH TRAPPING FEES/LICENSES                        
 BILL VERSION: CSSB 7(RLS) AM                                                  
 SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) DONLEY, Sharp                                          
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG             ACTION                                        
 01/03/97        15    (S)   PREFILE RELEASED 1/3/97                           
 01/13/97        15    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 01/13/97        15    (S)   RES, FIN                                          
 01/29/97              (S)   RES AT  3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                
 01/29/97              (S)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 02/03/97              (S)   RES AT  3:30 PM BUTROVICH ROOM 205                
 02/03/97              (S)   MINUTE(RES)                                       
 02/06/97       246    (S)   RES RPT  CS  3DP 2NR      NEW TITLE               
 02/06/97       246    (S)   DP:  HALFORD, GREEN, SHARP                        
 02/06/97       246    (S)   NR:  LEMAN, LINCOLN                               
 02/06/97       246    (S)   FISCAL NOTES TO SB & CS (F&G-2)                   
 02/11/97       283    (S)   CORRECTED ZERO FN TO SB (DPS)                     
 02/11/97       283    (S)   ZERO FN TO CS (DPS)                               
 02/18/97              (S)   FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                
 02/25/97       491    (S)   FIN RPT  CS  2DP 5NR      NEW TITLE               
 02/25/97       492    (S)   DP: SHARP, DONLEY;  NR: ADAMS, PARNELL            
 02/25/97       492    (S)   NR: PHILLIPS, PEARCE, TORGERSON                   
 02/25/97       492    (S)   FNS TO CS (F&G-2)                                 
 02/25/97       492    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FNS APPLY TO CS (DPS-2)             
 02/26/97              (S)   RLS AT 12:30 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203                 
 02/26/97              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                       
 03/05/97       567    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR W/CS  NEW TITLE   3/5           
 03/04/97       567    (S)   DP: KELLY; CALENDAR: LEMAN, TORGERSON;            
 03/04/97       567    (S)   NR: DUNCAN; DNP: TAYLOR                           
 03/04/97       567    (S)   FN TO CS (F&G)                                    
 03/04/97       567    (S)   PREVIOUS FN ( F&G)                                
 03/05/97       567    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN APPLIES TO CS (DPS)              
 03/05/97       575    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                              
 03/05/97       575    (S)   RLS  CS ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                      
 03/05/97       575    (S)   ADVANCED TO THIRD READING UNAN CONSENT            
 03/05/97       575    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 8(RLS)                  
 03/05/97       576    (S)   PASSED Y17 N3                                     
 03/05/97       576    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                 
 03/05/97       576    (S)   MACKIE  NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                 
 03/06/97       604    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP        IN THIRD READING            
 03/06/97       604    (S)   RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 1  UNAN CONSENT           
 03/06/97       605    (S)   AM NO  1     OFFERED BY MACKIE                    
 03/06/97       605    (S)   AM NO  1     ADOPTED UNAN CONSENT                 
 03/06/97       605    (S)   AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING                    
 03/06/97       606    (S)   PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION Y17 N3                  
 03/06/97       606    (S)   EFFECTIVE DATE(S) SAME AS PASSAGE                 
 03/06/97       606    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                
 03/07/97       576    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/07/97       577    (H)   FSH, RESOURCES, FINANCE                           
 03/24/97              (H)   FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
                                                                               
 BILL:  HB 204                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: MORATORIA ON COMMERCIAL FISHERIES ENTRY                          
 SPONSOR(S): SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON FISHERIES                                    
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG             ACTION                                        
 03/19/97       756    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 03/19/97       756    (H)   FSH, RESOURCES                                    
 03/24/97              (H)   FSH AT  5:00 PM CAPITOL 124                       
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 SENATOR DAVE DONLEY                                                           
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 508                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-3892                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Provided sponsor testimony on CSSB 7(RLS) AM.            
                                                                               
 KATHY HANSEN, Executive Director                                              
 United Southeast Alaska Gillnetters Association                               
 P.O. Box 22427                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska  99802                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 586-5860                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSSB 7(RLS) AM.                             
                                                                               
 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison                                              
 Office of the Commissioner                                                    
 Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                            
 P.O. Box 25526                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-6143                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSSB 7(RLS) AM.                             
                                                                               
 ERIC STIRRUP                                                                  
 P.O. Box 4123                                                                 
 Kodiak, Juneau  99615                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 486-2200                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSSB 7(RLS) AM.                             
                                                                               
 AMY DAUGHERTY, Legislative Administrative Assistant to                        
   Representative Alan Austerman                                               
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 434                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4230                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Read the sponsor statement for HB 204.                   
                                                                               
 DALE ANDERSON, Chairman                                                       
 Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission                                         
 Alaska Department of Fish and Game                                            
 8800 Glacier Highway, Suite 109                                               
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 789-6160                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on HB 204.                                     
                                                                               
 DEAN PADDOCK, Representative                                                  
 Alaska Bristol Bay Drift Netters Association                                  
 P.O Box 21951                                                                 
 Juneau, Alaska  99802                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 463-4970                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in favor of HB 204.                            
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-14, SIDE A,                                                           
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN ALAN AUSTERMAN called the House Special Committee on                 
 Fisheries meeting to order at 5:06 p.m.  Members present at the               
 call to order were Representatives Austerman, Ivan, Ogan and                  
 Hodgins.  Representative Kubina was absent.                                   
                                                                               
 CSSB 7(RLS) AM - HUNTING SPORT FISH TRAPPING FEES/LICENSES                  
                                                                               
 Number 031                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced the first order of business to be CSSB
 7(RLS) AM, "An Act reducing certain resident sport fishing,                   
 hunting, and trapping license fees, increasing certain nonresident            
 sport fishing license and tag fees, and relating to nonresident               
 sport fishing and hunting licenses and tags; and providing for an             
 effective date."  He asked Senator Donley to present the bill.                
                                                                               
 Number 060                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DAVE DONLEY stated that the bill does several things.  The            
 first section lowers the current combination fee for residents, for           
 hunting, trapping, and various combinations of sport fishing                  
 licenses, by one dollar for each of the multiple licenses.  If                
 there are two licenses, it lowers it by one dollar if there are               
 three licenses, it lowers it by two dollars.  This is the savings             
 to the state because the state pays a commission to vendors to sell           
 the licenses, therefore they only pay the commission once if a                
 combination license is sold.  He stated that it gives an incentive            
 to people, within our cost savings, to buy a combination license.             
                                                                               
 Number 177                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that Section 4, deals with nonresident sport            
 fishing licenses.  He stated that currently there are four types of           
 nonresident sport fish licenses:  a 1-day license for $10, which              
 this legislation does not change; a 3-day license for $15, which              
 this legislation proposes to change to $20; this legislation                  
 proposes to create a 7-day license for $30; a 14-day license for              
 $30, which this legislation would raise to $50; and currently there           
 is an annual nonresident license for $50, which would no longer be            
 available under this legislation, except under the provisions of              
 Section 5.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 255                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that Section 5 specifies that to be eligible            
 for an annual nonresident sport fish license, one needs to possess            
 a sport fish guide license or be employed by somebody who does.               
 The reason for this exemption is that typically these people are              
 already licensed commercially to the state, already paying a fees             
 for the licenses and because the House was proposing that                     
 commercial sport fish guide license holders would be required to              
 have an annual sport fish license, so the Senate, in an effort to             
 eliminate a conflict in bills, wanted to make sure there was a                
 provision for it in this bill.  He stated that the guidelines are             
 that if one holds a current sport fish guide license or air taxi              
 commercial operators certificate where you are licensed to carry              
 passengers for hire by the coast guard, you could buy an annual               
 license for $150.  This would also apply to those people who are              
 employed by these license holders.                                            
                                                                               
 Number 359                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that Section 6 is a technical change because            
 by repealing the annual sport fish license section, a technical               
 change was needed because it was wrapped up with game tag language,           
 it does not change anything but just restates existing language.              
                                                                               
 Number 401                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that Section 7 makes a parallel provision for           
 King Salmon tags following the same scheme as the increased fees              
 for nonresidents for ordinary fishing licenses.  A 1-day tag is               
 still $10, a 3-day tag would be $20, a 7-day tag $30, a 14-day tag            
 $50 and there is no provision for an annual tag.                              
                                                                               
 Number 454                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that the legislation makes no proposed                  
 changes to the military, so there is a status quo for any current             
 military in Alaska.  He stated that there as been a request to add            
 to Section 5, provisions for people who hold current limited entry            
 permits issued by the Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission            
 (CFEC) and that there be a provision for a crew members license.              
 He stated that this would be acceptable if it is couched in the               
 frame that a person could sport fish while they are actively                  
 engaged in the commercial fishing ventures.  He stated that it does           
 make sense if this is done in the down time when commercial                   
 fishing, but he did not want to see having a crew member license              
 justify people who are nonresidents staying all year and fishing              
 all the time.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 584                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE MARK HODGINS stated that needed to make a conflict             
 of interest statement in that he has money in a guiding outfit.               
                                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 604                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked if on page 2, line 28, the                    
 definition of prepared for storage, is taken out of a regulation              
 and codified in statute.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 655                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that it is a section that is word for word as           
 it appears in existing law but needed to be restated here because             
 they deleted a section of statute that overlapped with this                   
 regarding sport fish, so none of the language in Section 6 is a               
 change from existing law.  This language had appeared in a                    
 different section of existing law that is repealed on page 4, line            
 1.  He stated that it repealed the present annual nonresident sport           
 fish license and eliminated this language as well, therefore, it              
 needed to restated in another section.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 721                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that he has mixed emotions on the               
 increase in fees.  He stated that he realizes there is a problem              
 that needs to be solved with people canning red salmon to pay for             
 their vacation but he is not sure that this would be a deterrent              
 for someone coming up here and doing that.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 786                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that there have been quite a few hearings on            
 this legislation in the Senate and this cite has been around for              
 four years.  He stated that there are no changes in this proposal             
 to the 1-day license and it still keeps the 3-day license cheap at            
 $20 and everyone agrees that the 7-day license is a good option for           
 people visiting Alaska.  This bill is really designed to discourage           
 long term usage by nonresidents of our sport fish, while not                  
 penalizing people that are visiting for a short period of time.  He           
 stated that someone who wanted to abuse it could be continuing to             
 buy the 14-day licenses but that person will send up a red flag for           
 enforcement officials to see what they are doing with those                   
 licenses.  For the people that are visiting for a summer it would             
 be a lot easier to buy a 1-day license when they want to fish                 
 rather than being in a continual harvest mode.                                
                                                                               
 Number 913                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked that unless the enforcement                      
 capabilities are increased, would this solve the problem.                     
                                                                               
 Number 925                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that there was a major enforcement effort on            
 the Kenai Peninsular last season where fish and wildlife tried to             
 target some of the worst abusers to fine and prosecute them.  He              
 stated that we could also use more enforcement but the public                 
 safety budget is an area where we are maintaining our current level           
 of commitment, not increasing it.                                             
                                                                               
 Number  982                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that on page 2, Section 5, it has allowed           
 for the possibility of a nonresident license for $150 and on page             
 3, Section 7, there is no allowance for a King Salmon tag for a               
 nonresident.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 996                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY replied that because it is so competitive, King                
 Salmon tags are a special issue.  There would still be the option             
 for people to buy the 1-day King Salmon tag to go with their annual           
 nonresident license or even up to a 14-day King Salmon tag.  The              
 focus of this legislation was to create a mechanism to facilitate             
 other legislation that mandates an annual sport fish license for              
 people that own types of commercial licenses so that we were not              
 cutting them off, if we were going to mandate that they have annual           
 licenses.  The King Salmon tag did not seem necessary to fulfill              
 that purpose.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1057                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that he had a couple of amendments and              
 would entertain a motion to accept the CSSB 7(RLS) AM as a working            
 draft.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1069                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN IVAN made a motion to adopt CSSB 7(RLS) AM                
 before the committee.                                                         
                                                                               
 Number 1074                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there were any objections.                        
                                                                               
 Number 1080                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN objected for discussion purposes and asked why            
 the committee was doing that.                                                 
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN replied so we would have a working draft before            
 the committee.                                                                
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if there are changes from another bill.             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked what he was referring to.                            
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that it was passed over from the Senate.           
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that he stands corrected and he announced           
 he would take public testimony on the amendments.                             
                                                                               
 Number 1131                                                                   
                                                                               
 KATHY HANSEN, Executive Director, United Southeast Alaska                     
 Gillnetters Association, stated that the association supports the             
 purpose of the bill and requested that the amendment be inserted              
 for the CFEC permit holders and crew member licenses.  She stated             
 that the seasons last for a long time and if a crew member only has           
 a day off they often won't use it to go into town but will throw              
 out a dungeness pot or ring and try to catch something to eat,                
 something different besides what they are fishing for.  To do this            
 they will have to buy a 14-day license which would be fiscally                
 difficult for them to do.  The association would like to provide a            
 way for the fisherman to catch fish to eat while out commercial               
 fishing.  She stated that this is a common practice in the herring            
 and longer salmon fisheries.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1238                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked which of the two amendments she was                 
 addressing.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1246                                                                   
                                                                               
 MS. HANSEN stated that if the association had to go with one of the           
 amendments it would be the commercial limited entry permit holders.           
 A crew member license for a nonresident is only $90, so someone               
 could abuse the system quite easily.  She stated that the cheapest            
 entry permit is a hand troll permit which would cost $10,000,                 
 someone would not go through that method to abuse the system.  She            
 stated that they would prefer the limited entry permit amendment.             
                                                                               
 Number 1270                                                                   
                                                                               
 GERON BRUCE, Legislative Liaison, Office of the Commissioner,                 
 Alaska Department of Fish and Game, stated that they have some                
 concerns with the bill.  He stated that the lack of an annual                 
 nonresident license is a concern.  The fee differential between a             
 resident and a nonresident license is a concern because that is an            
 article that may be required in order to engage in a business in              
 Alaska.  There is some concern within the Department of Law that it           
 could be challenged by a nonresident guide who is required to have            
 that license, as an infringement of their rights under the U.S.               
 Constitution's, Privileges and Immunities Clause.  This clause                
 allows a citizen of one state to have the same privileges of                  
 citizens in other states.  He stated that they would like to see an           
 annual nonresident license for several reasons.  If someone moves             
 to the state with the intention to become a permanent resident,               
 that person would have to buy a series of licenses to fish through            
 the summer.  The department is not certain that this should be the            
 state policy towards new residents.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1432                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he is a little confused, he thought           
 this bill had a provision for a nonresident annual sport fishing              
 license.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1443                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY replied that it is only for people who have other              
 sorts of different licenses.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1462                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE stated that the department's recommendation would be to             
 provide an annual nonresident license for people who weren't                  
 involved in the commercial industry.  The reasons being to                    
 accommodate recent residents of the state so that there isn't the             
 burden on them to buy a series of 14-day licenses, to accommodate             
 guests for are visiting for a long time and for the seasonal                  
 resident and workers.  The option should be available although not            
 at the same cost as a resident.  He stated that for a recreational            
 license it is not so difficult to charge a higher differential fee            
 and would suggest that it cost between $100 and $125 a year.                  
                                                                               
 Number 1558                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE stated that the public may be concerned how the seasonal            
 bag limits will be enforced.  The Board of Fisheries has begun the            
 process to place seasonal bag limits as a solution to the excessive           
 take of King Salmon by nonresidents.  He stated that there is the             
 perception that under the 14-day license if they decide to buy                
 another one they get a second or third bag limit.  He stated that             
 is not the case, however the license is the mechanism for recording           
 the take, by getting a new license it would be difficult for                  
 enforcement personnel to tag that person who already has taken                
 their bag limit.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1612                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if there was a way to identify or                   
 attached the licenses together, when additional 14-day licenses are           
 issued, for reporting purposes.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 1652                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE stated that it would be administratively complicated to             
 accomplish that.                                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1659                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked if a class 7 is a nonresident license            
 and how long is it good for.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1684                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE stated that it would cover a calendar year ending at                
 December 31st of that year.                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that then there is a mechanism for an           
 nonresident annual fishing license now.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1699                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE replied that currently there is, under this bill there              
 would not be, except for people involved in the sport fish guiding            
 industry.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1710                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that the 3-to-1 differential is                    
 currently being litigated because it is occupational license but if           
 the differential was for a non-occupational license we could get              
 around it.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1778                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE stated that the courts do not apply as strict a test as             
 the courts apply to non-occupational licenses.  He stated that in             
 the Carlson case, courts have found that you have to look at the              
 amount of state money that is put into the management of the                  
 industry and the resources, above and beyond what is contributed by           
 the license holders, to determine whether or not it is reasonable.            
 He stated that you can require the difference from what the state             
 puts in above and beyond what the licenses holders pay to be                  
 applied to nonresident licenses.  The courts are going through the            
 process of finding out whether the current differential is                    
 justified, given the different sources of funds that the state is             
 putting into its management system.                                           
                                                                               
 Number 1849                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN asked if it was against the law to have sport             
 caught fish on a commercial boat during a commercial fishery.                 
                                                                               
 Number 1868                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE replied that there is such a regulation but thinks that             
 it only applies to the troll fishery in Southeast Alaska and would            
 check further into it.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1885                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that he assumes Representative Ivan was             
 referring to the two amendments.  He stated that the commercial               
 fishermen exemption that they are talking about in the amendments             
 is that the industry has quite a few closures when the workers will           
 sport fish at that time.                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1906                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN stated that he is not talking against the                 
 amendment or the bill.                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1916                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that on the back of his license there           
 are provisions for a 1-day, 3-day and 14-day license for a                    
 nonresident and asked why there isn't that option for residents.              
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE replied that there is one flat annual fee for residents             
 which is $15.                                                                 
                                                                               
 ERIC STIRRUP, testified via teleconference from Kodiak, that the              
 bill makes no provision for a nonresident, angler annual license.             
 He stated that there are many nonresident contractors who are                 
 building projects on state, federal, borough or city money, who are           
 working on the project for at least two years and are denied the              
 opportunity to purchase a nonresident annual license.  He stated              
 that if those people buy more than one 14-day license they are red            
 flagged by the Department of Fish and Game as potentially breaking            
 the law.  He stated that they are given no opportunity but break              
 the law from the standpoint that they will have to buy multiple               
 licenses.  He stated that this could be solved by having a $150               
 nonresident angler annual license.  He stated that the legislature            
 should stand behind the Board of Fisheries politically, to                    
 implement an annual seasonal bag limit for all recreational anglers           
 in the state of Alaska.  He stated that some of the biggest                   
 offenders of bag limits that he has seen are not from out of state            
 but are living in Kodiak.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 2083                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY wanted to clarify that when Mr. Bruce spoke to the             
 Privileges and Immunities Clause he was really speaking to the                
 Commerce Clause.  The Privileges and Immunities Clause does provide           
 for a much greater discrepancy, it is the Commerce Clause that ties           
 us up when we do the 1-to-3 ratio in any commercial operation.  He            
 said, "The  Commerce Clause does not apply except through this new            
 linkage to the commercial licenses and no one knows, since it has             
 never been done before, how a court would see that particular                 
 part."  He stated that if there was a bag limit problem it would be           
 under the existing law also because of the options for the shorter            
 licenses.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 2126                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked what the discussions were on the Senate              
 side of everyone having to pay a $150 dollars.                                
                                                                               
 Number 2136                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that it is an option for the committee to               
 consider, long time visitors can still fish a day at a time for $10           
 or a week for $30 and those visitors, because they are here all the           
 time, are going to fish when the fish are in.  He stated that it              
 wouldn't be necessary to continually buy 14-day licenses unless               
 they are trying to catch fish as a full time operation.  He stated            
 that they have tried to provide options by keeping the 1-day cost             
 low and keeping the short term cost low so that people can continue           
 to utilize the resource without over using it.                                
                                                                               
 Number 2189                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked what about the person who moves here and            
 wants to fish all the time.  He stated that the differential                  
 discriminates against the person who is establishing a residency,             
 buying 14-day licenses adds up to a lot a money, to fish for the              
 summer.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 2223                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY replied that is true.  We would be discriminating              
 there, the question is are we unfairly discriminating.  He stated             
 that on the House side there is a proposal to determine a permanent           
 resident through the permanent dividend criteria, which is a great            
 idea to reduce some of the abuses we have had with nonresidents               
 claiming and buying resident licenses.  He stated that it is not              
 unreasonable to ask new residents to show that they are committed             
 to being here in Alaska, before they are given the benefits of the            
 lower fees for the sport fish license because so much of the cost             
 in Alaska is from state government providing the infrastructure for           
 the roads and the camp grounds that visitors use and are resources            
 that are owned by the people.  New residents do not have a good               
 claim on that ownership until they have shown a commitment to be              
 here for a period of time.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 2286                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked what the other committee referrals are on           
 the House side.                                                               
                                                                               
 Number 2289                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY replied the other committees are resources and                 
 finance.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2298                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that he would have a difficult time             
 moving this bill out unless it could be assured that there was                
 going to be quite a bit of discussion on an annual fee.  He stated            
 that he can understand trying to get a handle on some of the                  
 abuses, but would suggest that if someone brought an annual license           
 with an out of state address, that would be a red flag but not                
 diminish the ability for someone that is living here for one year             
 before they have obtained residency to sport fish.  He stated that            
 he would like to have some assurances that people who intend to               
 move here to establish a residency are not discriminated against.             
                                                                               
 Number 2349                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY replied that the safeguard here is that they can               
 always fish for $10, if they want to fish.  He stated that the only           
 person who would have a hardship under this is someone who just               
 moves here, and typically there is just one season to fish, but it            
 is reasonable to expect them to establish residency in a more                 
 permanent matter before they reap the benefits in Alaska.  He                 
 stated that this is asked to be done for the permanent fund                   
 dividend and the longevity bonus.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 2396                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if there has been any discussion whether            
 it would be discrimination for a person trying to establish                   
 residency being able to obtain a 14-day license by the Department             
 of Law.                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 2403                                                                   
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY replied that the issue is not whether or not there             
 is discrimination but is the discrimination improper.  He stated              
 that we clearly discriminate all through our laws based on                    
 residency, the question becomes at what point is it improper                  
 discrimination, which is basically determined under the Privileges            
 and Immunities Clause.  Since it is a sport fish question it is               
 under the Privileges and Immunities Clause, if it was a commercial            
 question it would be under the Commerce Clause.  The Privileges and           
 Immunities Clause is a sliding scale of scrutiny based on the                 
 importance of the right or privilege involved.  He stated that                
 there are different standards for different rights such as welfare,           
 emergency services and employment.  He stated that courts are not             
 going to find that this issue is a vital concern to someone being             
 able to survive because it is not a commercial activity, it is a              
 recreational activity.  The odds of someone saying they have to               
 have a benefit with less then a year of establishing residency                
 would be very slight.                                                         
                                                                               
 TAPE 97-14, SIDE B                                                            
 Number 006                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that there are a lot of people who get             
 there resident hunting license by lying, and he is trying to deal             
 with that through legislation.  He stated that he is concerned that           
 the bill may give people more reasons to lie.  He stated that he              
 knows there are a lot of people who move here and lie to buy a                
 resident fishing license and wondered if we were not creating more            
 of that problem by not giving them the opportunity to pay $150 for            
 a year round resident license.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 059                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN made a motion to move Amendment 1,                        
 O-LSO131\PA.2, 3/24/97, for adoption.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 071                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked if these are presented as two                    
 amendments or as one amendment.                                               
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated two different amendments.                           
                                                                               
 Number 083                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN objected that he would favor the other                    
 amendment rather than then Amendment 1, for the reasons stated by             
 Kathy Hansen.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 105                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if everybody understood what the two                 
 amendments do.  The Amendment 1 on page 2, line 22, following                 
 "Guard" inserts ";or (B) a current commercial fishing crew member             
 license issued by the department".  The other amendment would                 
 insert ";or (B) a current entry permit or interim-use permit issued           
 by the department".  He stated that if Amendment 1 passed all                 
 commercial fishermen would be covered because they have to have a             
 crew member license whether they have a limited entry permit or               
 not.                                                                          
                                                                               
 Number 144                                                                    
                                                                               
 MS. HANSEN stated that one could use their limited entry permit for           
 a crew member license in another commercial fishery and does not              
 know if it that would not hold true in this case.                             
                                                                               
 Number 155                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if the limited entry amendment could                 
 eliminate some commercial fisherman from getting a sport fish                 
 license because they do not hold a permit.                                    
 Number 163                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if we are debating on both amendments               
 even though there is only Amendment 1 on the table.                           
                                                                               
 Number 171                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that we may vote one down in favor of the           
 other so we need to understand what we are voting on.                         
                                                                               
 Number 178                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he is concerned that Amendment 1              
 would give people the loop hole, for an annual nonresident sport              
 fish license by purchasing a commercial crew license, which is his            
 objection.  He asked if the limited entry amendment was being                 
 offered as well.                                                              
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN stated he was offering Amendment 1 but if there           
 are not enough votes he would withdraw it.                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if Amendment 1 was accepted would it                
 include limited entry permit holders.                                         
                                                                               
 Number 229                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE asked if the question is if you had a commercial entry              
 permit would that cover everyone.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 248                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that the question is if someone held a             
 commercial fishing crew member license would that also cover people           
 that held a limited entry permit license.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 258                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE stated that it would not in every case.  He stated that             
 there are people who fish just as crew members and they only have             
 a crew member license and they do not hold a limited entry permit.            
 He stated that he did not know how many people would fall into that           
 category.                                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 278                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if Representative Ogan's objection was               
 maintained.                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 282                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied yes because it seems like Amendment 1             
 is giving people a loophole and if someone has a limited entry                
 permit they would be able to fish for the crew members on the boat            
 and if the crew wants to sport fish they would have to buy a sport            
 fish license.                                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 306                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that he would speak in favor of the                 
 motion because of the issue of being a commercial crew member out             
 on the grounds for 30-days to 60-days at a time, during which there           
 are a number of openings and closures.  It would not be right for             
 just the skipper to be able to sport fish and a crew member not be            
 able to do the same thing.  He stated that if it is to be equitable           
 Amendment 1 would be the one to choose rather the limited entry               
 amendment.                                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 317                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that it would be fine unless people                
 figured out the loophole and asked how the sponsor felt about                 
 Amendment 1.                                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 354                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that this is definitely a loophole but they             
 would still have to pay $150 for the annual license which will                
 generate more revenue to helping out the resource.  He stated that            
 he is concerned about it but does not have a big objection to it              
 because this is not the group of people who are abusing the annual            
 licenses.  He stated that it could have some fine tuning such as              
 stating one has to hold a commercial crew license and be currently            
 employed, which would go a long way to prevent someone from just              
 buying a crew license to be able to sport fish annually.  We have             
 done this when trying to figure people who were currently employed            
 in the sport fish industry.  He stated that it wouldn't cut all the           
 abuses down but it might tighten them up a bit.                               
                                                                               
 Number 449                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE IVAN asked for an at ease.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 455                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN called for a brief at ease at 6:10.                        
                                                                               
 Number 455                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN called the committee back to order at 6:13.                
                                                                               
 Number 464                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was any further discussion on               
 Amendment 1.                                                                  
 Number 467                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he would like to withdraw his                 
 objection because if someone wanted to exploit the resources that             
 badly they would have to buy a commercial fishing crew member                 
 license.  He stated it could be an out for new residents and it               
 would be a another $150 to fish all year.                                     
                                                                               
 Number 491                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there were any further objections,                
 hearing none Amendment 1 passed.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 512                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if the limited entry amendment was going            
 to be addressed by the committee.  He stated that it needs to be              
 discussed whether or not Amendment 1 includes someone who has a               
 permit issued by the Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission.  He               
 asked if Amendment 1 includes holders of the limited entry permit.            
                                                                               
 Number 552                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE stated that he did not believe it required that they                
 would have to go out and buy a crew member license as well.  The              
 entry permit serves in lieu of a crew member license but is not a             
 crew members license.  He stated that there is nothing that                   
 prohibits them from buying a crew member license and is not sure              
 that they would automatically have that benefit simply by having              
 that entry permit.                                                            
                                                                               
 Number 586                                                                    
                                                                               
 SENATOR DONLEY stated that they asked the Department of Law that              
 question and they think that they are two different groups of                 
 people.  If the committee wants to extend the privilege for an                
 annual license to permit holders, the limited entry amendment could           
 be adopted as well.                                                           
                                                                               
 Number 605                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked if a nonresident wanted an annual                
 sport fish license, and bought a crew members license would that be           
 legal.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 647                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE replied that he did not believe that would be doing                 
 anything illegal.  There is no requirement to have to crew in a               
 fishery in order to buy a crew member license.                                
                                                                               
 Number 654                                                                    
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS stated that this way the nonresident annual            
 license would then be $240.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 687                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN made a motion to move Amendment 2, O-                     
 LSO131\PA.3, Utermohle, and stated that it needs a technical                  
 amendment in the relettering.                                                 
                                                                               
 Number 716                                                                    
                                                                               
 MR. BRUCE stated that he wanted to point out that a difference by             
 doing it this way through a crew members license verses a                     
 nonresident annual sport fishing license is that one goes into the            
 general fund and one goes into the fish and game fund.                        
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS asked which would be which.                            
                                                                               
 Number 748                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN replied $90 dollars goes into the general fund             
 and $150 goes into the fish and game fund.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 762                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that Amendment PA.3 is before the                   
 committee with a technical amendment to change line 5 "(B)" to                
 "(C)" so that it follows the first amendment that was passed.                 
                                                                               
 Number 764                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there were any objections to the                  
 amendment, hearing none it was so ordered.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 789                                                                    
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN made a motion to move HCSCSSB 7(FSH), with                
 individual recommendations and accompanying fiscal note.                      
                                                                               
 Number 797                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was an objection, hearing none              
 HCSCSSB 7(FSH) was moved out of the House Special Committee on                
 Fisheries.                                                                    
                                                                               
 HB 204 - MORATORIA ON COMMERCIAL FISHERIES ENTRY                             
                                                                              
 Number 810                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN announced the next order of business to be HB
 204, "An Act revising the procedures and authority of the Alaska              
 Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, the Board of Fisheries, and            
 the Department of Fish and Game to establish a moratorium on                  
 participants or vessels, or both, participating in certain                    
 fisheries; and providing for an effective date", and stated that              
 his staff will present the bill.                                              
                                                                               
 AMY DAUGHERTY, Legislative Administrative Assistant to                        
 Representative Alan Austerman, read the following sponsor statement           
 into the record:                                                              
                                                                               
 "House Bill 204 amends the existing moratorium law as part of                 
 Alaska's existing fisheries management process.  The current                  
 moratorium statute is burdensome unworkable and confusing.  The               
 current process involves multiple steps where fishers seeking a               
 moratorium must first go to the Commissioner of Fish and Game, who,           
 in turn must seek authorization from the Board of Fisheries.  Once            
 authorization is granted from the Board of Fisheries, the                     
 commissioner then petitions the Limited Entry Commission to provide           
 a moratorium.                                                                 
                                                                               
 "The Limited Entry Commission is them authorized to go forward if             
 it can make findings required by the current statute, which are               
 difficult to understand and mutually inconsistent.                            
                                                                               
 "This process prevents a quick response in fisheries that are                 
 growing too rapidly to ensure effective management.  As a result,             
 the resource and the economic livelihood of fishers could be                  
 jeopardized.  In some situations, Alaska Department of Fish and               
 Game's only recourse is to close the fishery or refuse to open a              
 new fishery if effort cannot be controlled.                                   
                                                                               
 "House Bill 204 would allow fishers seeking a moratorium to                   
 petition the commission directly.  This legislation would also give           
 the commission the authority to place a moratorium on vessels and             
 gear as well as individuals.  This is important in a fishery like             
 the Bering Sea Korean Hair Crab Fishery, which is a bill we did               
 last year.                                                                    
                                                                               
 "Under the current statute, eligibility to participate during the             
 moratorium is based on past participation.  This requirement                  
 precludes the use of a moratorium in new fisheries or in fisheries            
 that have remained closed for years.  In these two situations,                
 participation level in an open access fishery may be initially too            
 great to promote resource conservation and sustainable fisheries.             
 House Bill 204 would allow the commission to implement a moratorium           
 in such fisheries and base eligibility on other reasonable                    
 standards such as participation in similar fisheries.                         
                                                                               
 "Additionally, HB 204 would allow the state to extend its                     
 moratorium authority to offshore fisheries adjacent to state waters           
 when consistent with federal law.                                             
                                                                               
 "Improving the moratorium law is consistent with our concern for              
 developing and protecting jobs, as well as streamlining government            
 an resource protection."                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 989                                                                    
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that, sponsor of the Senate version of              
 the bill, Senator Loran Leman was present.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 997                                                                    
                                                                               
 DALE ANDERSON, Chairman, Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission,               
 Alaska Department of Fish and Game, stated that the bill makes a              
 lot of sense, it is an opportunity to streamline the process and              
 gives fisherman direct access to the commission as was originally             
 intended.  It relives the legislature of dealing with moratorium              
 issues, issues that the commission is paid to deal with.  The bill            
 has a zero fiscal note, it will be a financial savings to the state           
 as well.  He stated that the commission does have an existing                 
 moratorium authority, it is not something that is being looked at             
 as a new authority, but it is a very confusing convoluted process             
 that the public has to go through to obtain a moratorium in their             
 fishery and the bill will provide direct access to the commission             
 by the individual fishers.                                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1114                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if the language on Section 3, page 2,               
 since this is not a permanent limited entry but a moratorium, get             
 the authority from the legislature to invoke a permanent limited              
 entry.                                                                        
                                                                               
 Number 1123                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON responded that the difference between a moratorium and           
 a limited entry is, a limited entry is a permanent piece of                   
 legislation, and a moratorium is a sunsetted opportunity to place             
 a participation cap on a fishery that has been brought to the                 
 commission as one that has a resource with an economic viability              
 concern.  It gives the commission four years to decide whether or             
 not a permanent limited entry program is proper for the fishery.              
 He stated that in the Southeast Dungeness Crab Fishery this is what           
 we had, which worked well, resulting in a management plan in that             
 fishery.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1242                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked what has been repealed in Section 10.               
                                                                               
 Number 1255                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON replied that he would have to get back to                        
 Representative Ogan on that.                                                  
                                                                               
 Number 1274                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN stated that everyone has to understand that this           
 is not a limited entry issue, it is a moratorium issue and how it             
 is applied to the fisheries that are in crisis.                               
                                                                               
 Number 1286                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he would have to debate that point            
 and would have to call the moratorium a temporary limited entry.              
 You limited that amount of people that can fish so we are giving              
 the commission the ability to declare a temporary limited entry.              
                                                                               
 Number 1308                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN replied if there is a fishery that is in crisis            
 how would you do it.  The objective of a moratorium is to be able             
 to still have a fishery and not let it go rampant and destroy                 
 itself.  He asked if the moratorium has to go the full four years.            
                                                                               
 Number 1332                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON responded that it does not have to go the full four              
 years, but in the past in the Dungeness Crab Fishery, the Korean              
 Hair Crab Fishery and now with the HB 141 the scallop moratorium              
 bill, four years has been the acceptable standard.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1362                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that for the record Section 16.05.050.19           
 explains the powers and duties of the commissioner but not by way             
 of limitation the following duties.  It states, "to petition the              
 Alaska Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission, unless the Board of             
 Fisheries disapproves the petition".  He stated that it apparently            
 repeals the Board of Fisheries ability to disapprove the petition.            
                                                                               
 Number 1420                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON replied that right now it is required that the                   
 individual go to the commissioner of the Department of Fish and               
 Game, who has to go to the Board of Fisheries, who has to go back             
 to the commissioner to give the okay, who then petitions to the               
 commission.  He stated that the commissioner is repealing those               
 steps.  We want the public to come directly to the commission and             
 we are still required to ask the Department of Fish and Game their            
 opinions.  He stated that the commission is not attempting to wipe            
 out the association that we have with the Department of Fish and              
 Game, rather have it in a more direct line.                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1481                                                                   
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked, "So you are asking for not only the                
 legislature to give you the authority to close this whenever you              
 want but you are also asking to have the fish board not have a say            
 in it."                                                                       
                                                                               
 Number 1500                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON replied that the Board of Fisheries always had a say             
 in any fish management program that is produced in the state of               
 Alaska.  He stated that we live within the Board of Fisheries                 
 qualifications that they put on a fishery as they are responsible             
 for the methods and means of capture of fish.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1525                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that AS 16.05.251(g) states "The board             
 shall consider whether the commissioner, in support of the request            
 for approval of the petition, has adequately shown that the fishery           
 meets the requirement for a moratorium on new entrants under AS               
 16.05.050.  The board by a majority vote of its members at the                
 meeting when the petition must be considered shall approve or                 
 disapprove the petition."  Basically we are eliminating the Board             
 of Fisheries from this process and that would take another system             
 of checks and balances out.                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 1572                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there was any part of the bill that               
 bring in the Board of Fisheries and the Department of Fish and Game           
 back in.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 1581                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON replied that in any study that the commission does,              
 they have to answer to the courts.  The commission has to go                  
 through the process to make their findings before they can declare            
 a moratorium on a fishery.  He stated that the very reason the                
 commission is asking that the statutes be changed is because the              
 Board of Fisheries should not have that authority to vote on what             
 the commission does.  He stated that this step is unnecessary.                
                                                                               
 Number 1648                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that he disagrees with that statement.             
 The Board of Fisheries should be in the loop.                                 
                                                                               
 Number 1661                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON replied that they are in the loop at this time even              
 within this bill.                                                             
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if he could explain that.                            
 MR. ANDERSON responded that on page 1, line 13, it states "To allow           
 time for the commission, in consultation with the Department of               
 Fish and Game and the Board of Fisheries, to investigate and                  
 evaluate management alternatives, including establishment of a                
 maximum number of entry permits under AS 16.43.240."                          
                                                                               
 Number 1702                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that if the Board of Fisheries is                  
 consulted and they think that it is a bad idea, the commission can            
 still go through with it anyway.                                              
                                                                               
 Number 1716                                                                   
                                                                               
 MR. ANDERSON replied that it would be the same response if                    
 everything the Board of Fisheries were to do and we had the                   
 authority to re-look at what they did.  He stated that the                    
 commission has an effective team now with the Board of Fisheries              
 and the Department of Fish and Game, who all shares one common goal           
 which is protection of the resource for sustained yield management.           
 He stated that the places that we differ are that we look at                  
 economic viability.  The Board of Fisheries cannot look at economic           
 viability.  The Board of Fisheries can look at methods and means of           
 capture, the commission cannot look at methods and means of                   
 capture.  The Department of Fish and Game cannot look at those two            
 things but they have to manage what the Board of Fisheries puts               
 down as the rules.  He stated that there are checks and balances              
 and we have developed effective management plans.                             
                                                                               
 Number 1824                                                                   
                                                                               
 DEAN PADDOCK, Representative, Alaska Bristol Bay Drift Netters                
 Association, stated that many of the members are opposed to limited           
 entry in principle but support it as a matter of reality and is               
 something that is desperately needed and in most cases has arrived            
 on the scene too little and too late.  Part of the reason for that            
 is wrapped up in the bill.  He stated that the association's                  
 biggest criticism is the arcane and obtuse process that the                   
 commission had to go through to deal with situations crying for               
 attention.  He stated that the fisheries are so overcrowded is                
 witness to the fact that we are usually a year late and many                  
 dollars short.  The necessary window of opportunity which the                 
 Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission has had to have in order to             
 take a desired action has frequently been too small for them to               
 assist, in a timely fashion, in making what was necessary to                  
 happen, actually happen.  He stated that this bill will allow the             
 process to work with a smaller window of opportunity.  Declaring a            
 moratorium is something that has proven to be time consuming and              
 difficult.  He referred to Mr. Anderson's statement that the                  
 process can work very well, the fisherman see nothing circuitous              
 outlined in the present statute.  He pointed out to Representative            
 Ogan Section 2 (b)(1), lines 13 through 14, subsection 2, page 2,             
 line 3 and Section 4 (d)(2) which offers more than adequate                   
 opportunity for input by the Department of Fish and Game due to the           
 nature of the way these consultations do in fact work.  He stated             
 that the association recommends the favorable consideration of this           
 measure.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 2235                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked what the wishes of the committee are.  He            
 asked of Representative Ogan needed further information on the                
 sections being repealed in the bill.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 2263                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN replied that he still has some misgivings about           
 it but not enough to hold the bill up.                                        
                                                                               
 Number 2277                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE HODGINS made a motion to move HB 204, 0-LS0802\A,              
 with individual recommendations and the attached fiscal note.                 
                                                                               
 Number 2280                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN asked if there were any objections, hearing none           
 HB 204 was moved out of the House Special Committee on Fisheries.             
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 Number 2299                                                                   
                                                                               
 CHAIRMAN AUSTERMAN adjourned the House Special Committee on                   
 Fisheries at 6:43 p.m.                                                        
                                                                               

Document Name Date/Time Subjects